> Charles, firstly my apologies for confusing Mcspotlight & Mclibel.
> I honestly thought they were one & the same. Well, one is a website and one is the name that a trial has come to be known by. Now the confusion is gone, lets continue.
> I guess what I am trying to get across is why when someone or
> something becomes so successful do people feel the need to cut them
> down.
I don't see what this has to do directly with being big or successful.
Not one of the criticisms of the orginal factsheet attacked McDonald's
or any other multinational for being successfull. The issues of concern was the lack of accountability, the exploitation of workers, the cynical exploitation of children through advertising, the promotion of an unhealthy diet, the links with rainforest destruction and third world poverty, the waste packaging, litter and lack of recycling.
> I know what propaganda is and still believe Mcspotlight peddle in it.
And what do you think McDonald's is doing with their $2 billion a year marketing budget?
> But the problem is that you pick a fight and then expect everyone to
> agree with you. When other people dont agree with you then they are
> ridiculed.
I am not sure where you are getting this from. The debating room is
used by people with a wide variety of political views and opinions.
People come along, make comments and get replies. Gross insults are
not allowed to be posted but if somebody from any side of the arguement
is able to riducule someone else opinion then I see no problem with that. As for expecting everyone to agree with 'us', it would be nice ;-) but we certainly don't expect it. Years and years of corporate and capitalist propaganda ensure that we have our work cut out for us.
> You asked me how I became so cynical. EXCUSE ME.
> Have a look at your own mass messages going out on this site.
I asked how you became so cynical WITHOUT asking yourself some of the important questions. I have no problem with people being cynical, it is a very healthy trait. The site is certainly cynical - cynical of the
corporate bullshit, greenwash and glossy images that they spend so much trying to make us believe.
> Once again I reiterate. Please ask the Mclibel Defendants to post a
> detailed breakdown of how much money has been donated versus how much
> has been spent on the case and how much has gone into their pockets.
The defendents will no doubt have better things to do, they are as always very busy. The McLibel Support Campaign handles the funds so it is them you should contact. The address is on the site, feel free to ask them to post the details for everyone to read.
> I hope you excuse me when I dont believe everthing I read on this
> site.
I excuse you, since believing everything you read without question ANYWHERE would be foolish. However I don't understand what
you problem is. Here you have full access to the entire court transcripts from the case, to scientific reports addressed in the case, to the witness statements, to the closing speeches, to everything we
could get our hands on in order to let people judge for themselves - and yet you can't get anything from these? You think that everything is lies? What more could possibly be done to prove any argument than what we have done here?
> I'm afraid patriotism sometimes clouds the real facts.
What? Whos patriotism? McSpotlight has no patriotism. The concept of
unquestioning defence of king and country is not healthy - anymore than
the new patriotism of corporate society were loyalty to brand images is becoming so common.
> Jim & Tammy Baker were a couple of preachers in America who asked
> people to donate to their cause and then split with the money.
> Another case of "The people, they need a leader"
And you thought you could compare some dollar greedy bible pedlers with the McLibel trial? ha ha ha. And what does 'the people, they need a leader' mean? The McLibel defendents are both anarchists, the McLibel Support Campaign is just that - a support campaign - which assists other groups in their campaigns by providing access to the facts from the trial and providing leaflets, merchandise etc. Where is the leader you are trying to find?
Look at the orginal factsheet and you will find the following..
"WHO MADE THIS LEAFLET - THE LONDON GREENPEACE GROUP has existed for many years as an independent group of activists with no involvement in any particular political party. The people - not 'members' - who come to the weekly open meetings share a concern for the oppression in our ives and the destruction of our environment. Many opposition movements are growing in strength - ecological, anti-war, animal liberation, and anarchist-libertarian movements - and continually learning from each other. We encourage people to think and act independently, WITHOUT LEADERS, to try to understand the causes of oppression and to aim for its abolition through social revolution. This begins in our own lives, now."
Again, just where do you think the leaders are?
