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- Xref: sparky sci.astro:13356 sci.physics:21590
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- Path: sparky!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!overload.lbl.gov!s1.gov!lip
- From: lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich)
- Subject: Re: Size of Second-Order GR Effects in Binary Pulsars
- Message-ID: <1992Dec22.192934.6171@s1.gov>
- Sender: usenet@s1.gov
- Nntp-Posting-Host: s1.gov
- Organization: LLNL
- References: <BzKK19.37I@well.sf.ca.us> <1992Dec21.211409.22248@s1.gov> <1992Dec22.005303.2974@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu>
- Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 19:29:34 GMT
- Lines: 51
-
- In article <1992Dec22.005303.2974@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu> mkagalen@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (michael kagalenko) writes:
- >In article <1992Dec21.211409.22248@s1.gov> lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:
- >>In article <BzKK19.37I@well.sf.ca.us> metares@well.sf.ca.us (Tom Van Flandern) writes:
- >>>lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes:
-
- >The post of Ms. Petrich indicates the lack of understanding, how
- >phenomenology works. She uses the following scheme ;
- >1st order of magnitude: Newtonian
- >2nd order of magnitude: GR
- >Therefore, she divides parameters into "Newtonian" and "Non-Newtonian"
- >In fact, this "perturbational" approach ought not to be used in
- >discussion of principal structure of GR.
-
- I find it a bit difficult to understand this statement.
-
- Post-Newtonian theory is a standard way of expressing the
- weak-field limit of alternative theories of gravity. If the
- post-Newtonian formulation is just plain wrong, then given the reason(s)
- for supposing it to be wrong.
-
- ... (assuming the truth of GR's
- >>: post-Newtonian approximation), ...
- > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
- >This is the point. We aren't discussing perturbational method.
-
- _Every_ test of GR that has offered serious precision that I
- have _ever_ seen has involved phenomena in relatively weak
- gravitational fields, so that is why perturbation theory is
- reasonable. The only known strong-field objects are neutron stars and
- black holes, and the former suffers from uncertainties in the equation
- of state for highly compressed nuclear matter, while the latter
- features problems of interpreting the effects of accretion flows. So
- the strongest effects precisely observed to date involve binary
- pulsars, where the interesting effects occur in the space between the
- pairs of objects.
-
- >>> Sorry, that's not so. You get different values for these parameters
- >>>from the observations depending on whether or not radiation is included in
- >>>the theoretical model.
-
- >> That is just plain wrong. See above.
-
- >Don't be so ignorant; you aren't the sole proprietor of truth.
-
- To paraphrase our Vice President, ill-rel-e-vant.
-
- After today, I'll probably be off the net until Jan. 4 or so.
-
- --
- /Loren Petrich, the Master Blaster
- /lip@s1.gov
-