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- From: roger@crux.Princeton.EDU (Roger Lustig)
- Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
- Subject: Re: Radical feminists
- Message-ID: <1992Dec29.055348.1373@Princeton.EDU>
- Date: 29 Dec 92 05:53:48 GMT
- References: <BzMzC5.Inq@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu>
- Sender: news@Princeton.EDU (USENET News System)
- Reply-To: roger@astro.princeton.edu (Roger Lustig)
- Organization: Princeton University
- Lines: 51
- Originator: news@nimaster
- Nntp-Posting-Host: crux.princeton.edu
-
- In article <BzMzC5.Inq@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu> mmmirash@midway.ecn.uoknor.edu (Mandar M. Mirashi) writes:
-
- > Just how far should we allow this assault on the English language
- >by radical feminists? They claim "history" is sexist.
-
- No, they don't. Certainly the ones you've cited don't. Try reading
- a little more carefully.
-
- > Next, they'll
- >claim that "manager" is sexist. Finally, do we change "this" to "tits"?
-
- Why not change yourself into a real live human being with a life? This
- is pathetic.
-
- > Let me quote Jacqueline Fortunata [The foll. excerpts are
- >from a paper she wrote criticising some of Lakoff's views. The
- >paper is entitled "Lakoff on Language and Women". Incidentally,
- >Lakoff is considered to be a pioneer in "non-sexist" language] :
-
- >" People must, at least on some occassions, spontaneously recognise
- >that they are being demeaned, and/or that they are demeaning. This
- >elementary fact is generally overlooked and ignored by many who speak
- >to the problem of verbal discrimination against women.
-
- >I have been arguing that "lady" and other suspect uses are demeaning
- >only if "lady" and other uses elicit feelings of being demeaned on
- >the part of those termed "lady". Because demeaning and feeling demeaned
- >are reciprocal socially-acquired linguistic acts, we can make an expression
- >a demeaning one if we convince enough people to feel demeaned. It
- >would seem that Lakoff's linguistic task must be secretive or self-
- >defeating (if you are an optimist) or self-confirming (if you are a
- >pessimist). Lakoff purports to describe, but the description influences
- >self-conscious people to feel demeaned at the sound of "lady". WHAT MAY
- >ONCE HAVE BEEN NEUTRAL BECOMES DEMEANING. Her theory makes itself true
- >if published and taken seriously, but then the taboo was not successfully
- >described by the missionaries, for it was they who taught it to the natives."
-
- Which says what about Lakoff's discussion of "history"?
-
- > Clearly, words such as "mankind" weren't deemed to be sexist by
- > most women, before these radical feminists started their tirade. Stop
-
- Do you call everything you don't understand a tirade?
-
- >misguiding people, you chauvinists!
-
- As I've pointed out before, YOU are a chauvinist of a particularly
- weird stripe. Complaining about Lakoff on grounds of chauvinism is
- hypocrisy, and pretty sad, to boot.
-
- Roger
-