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- Path: sparky!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!news.service.uci.edu!ucivax!ofa123!Wales.Larrison
- From: Wales.Larrison@ofa123.fidonet.org
- Newsgroups: sci.space
- Subject: Re: ELV profits (was Shuttle Replacement)
- X-Sender: newtout 0.02 Nov 17 1992
- Message-ID: <n0efct@ofa123.fidonet.org>
- Date: 20 Nov 92 22:16:46
- Lines: 76
-
- Allen W. Sherzer write:
-
- >Atlas and Delta are providing profits for the companies which build
- >them. That means they offer a return on investment.
-
- Unfortunately, the profits expected for Atlas and Delta have been
- pretty sparse.
- For example, General Dynamics reported in their third quarter
- annual report (released about 15 October) that their Space Launch
- Systems "core business area" lost $ 11 M on sales of $163 M (which
- is greatly improved compared to last year where they lost $23 M on
- sales of only $80 M or so in the third quarter). If you look at the
- year to date figures, they also show a net loss for space launch
- vehicles.
- Recent Atlas launch failures really haven't had an impact on this
- quarterly profit/loss line, since GD is guaranteed payment for the
- launch either from the satellite firm or from the insurance company
- if it fails. Failures do affect the business base however, as
- launch options are not exercised and companies decline to buy their
- services.
- However, overall for the Atlas program, I can't consider that it
- is providing profits.
- Hopefully in a year or two, with increasing sales and successful
- launches GD can pull this division into the black. It is the only
- money-losing "core business" left in General Dynamics' reduced
- corporate structure, and already rumors are floating that the Space
- Launch Systems business area is up for sale.
-
- At McDonnell Douglas' Space Systems Company, the results are more
- ambiguous, since the Launch Vehicle Business Area is lumped in with
- several other, larger, programs such as MDSSC's space station
- program. However, from what I have been able to find out, they are
- only now starting to make money on the Delta program. Up to now,
- the program has operated at a loss, but they are now starting to
- break even on on the program.
- Part of this is due to the core of their launch business, the
- USAF MLV-1 contract to launch the GPS satellites. Under the terms
- of that incentivized contract, MDSSC had to successfully launch a
- specific number of satellites before they could book profits. And if
- they have more than one failure in the program, they would lose all
- profits on the program and some of their cost -- ie, lose money).
- Now they are starting to show some launches slightly into the black
- -- but from my conversations with folks at MDSSC, the Delta program
- is not expected to make significant profits. (Note: MDSSC did the
- prudent thing and hedged their bets by buying some insurance
- themselves on the program to reduce their potential losses from GPS
- launch failures, but the cost of that insurance has also reduced
- their return.)
- Commercial delta sales have also been disappointing -- to get
- the sales, they have priced at VERY low profit margins, including
- some that have turned out to be money-losers. Fortunately, they
- have been able in most cases to convince customers to buy added
- launch services from McDonnell Douglas Space Services which have
- boosted profits to the break-even point.
- So, I guess you can say MDSSC is making profits on the Delta,
- defining profits as revenues greater than cost. Their returns on
- their investment have not been good. Moreover, one failed launch
- will probably wipe out the profits on the program, turning that ROI
- negative. And if they lose the MLV-3 contract follow-on to the MLV-
- 1 contract, they will lose the core of their launch business, which
- would greatly increase the fixed cost base to be absorbed, which
- will probably drive them from the market. IF they win the MLV-3
- contract, and IF the costs of modifying the Delta II to meet the new
- MLV-3 requirements are not too great, then they might make some real
- profits over the next several years. But it should also be pointed
- out making those mods for the MLV-3 program could put the Delta
- program into the red for some years to come, if the mods turn out to
- be fairly extensive.
- However, I can't consider Delta a really successful business
- right now. I'd say the jury is still out on if it will turn out to
- "profitable" -- primarily driven by the MLV-3 contract. And its
- return on investment has been pretty weak.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------
- Wales Larrison Space Technology Investor
-
- --- Maximus 2.00
-