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- Newsgroups: soc.bi
- Path: sparky!uunet!think.com!paperboy.osf.org!alan
- From: alan@osf.org (Alan Hamilton)
- Subject: Re: Gender and Bi Groups
- In-Reply-To: daveb@harlqn.co.uk's message of Tue, 26 Jan 1993 15:43:28 GMT
- Message-ID: <ALAN.93Jan28180442@pluto.osf.org>
- Lines: 79
- Sender: news@osf.org (USENET News System)
- Organization: Open Software Foundation
- References: <1993Jan19.182411.13079@icd.teradyne.com> <1993Jan26.154328.891@harlqn.co.uk>
- Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 23:04:46 GMT
- Lines: 79
-
- bryant@icd.teradyne.com writes:
- >The result was that Biversity had members of at least four genders by
- >the end of the summer. I have heard comments from some of these people
- >(and from TV and TS members) that this is the first group of any
- >sexuality where they ever felt truely welcomed and comfortable.
-
- daveb@harlqn.co.uk (Dave Berry) writes:
- >Could you clarify what you mean by "genders" here? Are you referring
- >to karotype, or what? Some TS's refer to themselves as a third sex,
- >are they included in your definition?
-
- bryant@icd.teradyne.com writes:
- >I had to look up the word karyotype in the dictionary.
-
- Me, too. And anyone else still reading this thread probably had as
- much difficulty as I had remembering what I was told in high school
- biology class about 'karotype' and 'phenotype'.
-
- Karotype: the chromosomal characteristics of a cell, or the
- chromosomes themselves, or a representation of them.
-
- Phenotype: the visible properties of an organism that are produced by
- the interaction of the genotype and the environment.
-
- bryant@icd.teradyne.com writes:
- > I was equating gender and karyotype.
-
- daveb@harlqn.co.uk (Dave Berry) writes:
- >It's interesting to compare this approach with the approach that Alan
- >uses in his glossary of terms about sexual and gender identity. Would
- >either of you like to comment?
-
- bryant@icd.teradyne.com writes:
- >I don't have Alan's definitions handy... Comments, Alan?
-
- There are several layers here:
-
- :Karotype: the chromosomal characteristics of a cell, or the
- chromosomes themselves, or a representation of them. One of several
- combinations of X, Y and O (missing) sex chromosomes.
-
- :Phenotype: The visible properties of an organism that are produced by
- the interaction of the genotype and the environment. Whether you are
- physically male, female, neuter, or hermaphrodite. (The Glossary's
- definition of "sex" corresponds to phenotype.)
-
- :Gender assigned at birth: Based on what they could tell about your
- phenotype at birth, whether everyone around you decided to train you
- and treat you as masculine or feminine. (These are called "genetic
- male/female", but are based on the phenotype.)
-
- :Gender identity: Whether you, personally, feel masculine, feminine,
- or androgynous (or none of the above.)
-
- One's sexual identity (most commonly heterosexual, gay/lesbian,
- bisexual, or asexual) is usually based on:
-
- o One's own gender identity.
-
- o The apparent gender role and/or gender identity and/or phenotype
- of those to whom one is romantically or sexually attracted. (Some
- people are attracted to butches or femmes, whether male or female;
- some are attracted to people who identify as men or as women; some are
- attracted to penis/balls or vagina/clitoris/breasts and don't care
- about the gender role or gender identity of their partner. Many
- construct their requirements on the basis of a combination of
- phenotype, gender identity, and gender role.)
-
- o The importance that these attractions or relationships have for
- one. For instance, one might have sex with both women and men, but
- only place importance on one's sexual relationships with members of
- the other sex, and therefore consider oneself heterosexual.
-
- In other words, when one thinks of the many layers involved, sexual
- identity is something of a house of cards: built on the constructs of
- gender identity, gender role, and phenotype; all of which are built on
- top of the many possible values of karotype.
-
- -Alan
-