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- Xref: sparky sci.environment:14848 soc.culture.usa:10129
- Newsgroups: sci.environment,soc.culture.usa
- Path: sparky!uunet!stanford.edu!CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU!SAIL.Stanford.EDU!andy
- From: andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman)
- Subject: Re: Cars and suburbs
- Message-ID: <1993Jan26.193128.11337@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>
- Sender: news@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU
- Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
- References: <21JAN199323271566@pearl.tufts.edu> <C1AvEr.8MB@quake.sylmar.ca.us> <1jsuiqINN8it@morrow.stanford.edu>
- Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 19:31:28 GMT
- Lines: 41
-
- In article <1jsuiqINN8it@morrow.stanford.edu> silva@pangea.Stanford.EDU (Holly Silva) writes:
- > Uh, hunh. Yoder's babbling again. Exactly where and how does
- >any government in America 'force people into trains'? By taking away
- >tax monies from the (heavily subsidized) American highways and re-direct-
- >ing them into public transit? I've yet to live anyplace where this is
- >occurring.
-
- Silva is babbling again. The "forcing" is by taxing auto users to pay
- for transit that isn't worth what it costs. That prices some folks
- out of the market. (It's a regressive effect, but that doesn't bother
- environmentalists.)
-
- If auto-use really was subsidized, the cattle-car transit folks would
- try to redirect the subsidies. They don't, because there aren't
- subsidies to redirect, and they know it. They redirect special taxes
- paid by auto users, because that's the only money to grab.
-
- Auto use does pay its way, and then some; that's the money that
- transit folks go after. Cattle-car advocates "forget" special taxes
- paid into the general fund when they do their accounting. They
- compare special taxes that go directly to auto uses with the spending
- on those uses, ignoring the auto taxes that go into the general fund.
-
- Of course, cattle-car advocates have other problems with accounting.
- When comparing autos to trains, they compare energy only. (Sometimes
- they don't even honestly do that, by comparing taxed energy for car
- with tax-free energy for cattle-cars.) There are other costs.
-
- I particularly like some of the high speed train proposals. Using
- projected ridership, employee totals, and predicted capital costs, we
- find that many of them can't possibly deliver rides for the price
- promised even if said employees make only $10k year and there's no
- maintenance or cost-overrun.
-
- If you think cattle-car transit is such a great idea, build it with
- your money. If you're right, you'll have plenty of money to do good.
- If you're not willing to take the chance that you're wrong with your
- money, what justifies spending MY money on it?
-
- -andy
- --
-