NetNews Usenet Archive 1993 #3/NN_1993_3.iso/spool/sci/energy/7141

Text File | 1993-01-22 | 6.3 KB | 118 lines

Newsgroups: sci.energy
Path: sparky!uunet!pmafire!mica.inel.gov![e-mail]
From: [e-mail] (Don Palmrose)
Subject: Re: NEWS: True Costs of Commercial Nuclear Power -- The Economic Failure
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: INEL EG&G Idaho
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 15:51:46 GMT
Lines: 106

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Richard Stead) writes:
>
> I have lived in several areas of the country as well.  This is not my
> experience.  A lot of poor actually buy new cars.

Some poor somehow can by such cars but they generally buy the used cars you
mentioned and cannot maintain them at a level that get that good gas milage
nor meet any polution standards.


> That's just not true.  Take a car at 25 mpg (your rural poor would actually
> have higher mileage, since most of their miles would be highway).  Drive
> 12,000 miles a year (higher than average which is 10,000).  Tack on $1
> a gallon more in tax.  That's $600.  Only a small percentage of people
> in this country pay less than that, and they also recieve lot's of federal
> aid.  If the balance didn't work, just increase the aid a bit.
> ($600 in tax means $4000 in taxable income.  For a single that's a year
> total salary of $7600.  For a single mom with 2 kids that's $12200.
> There aren't a lot of people in these categoires.  An income in this range
> most likely means you don't own a car, because you can't pay for food,
> housing, clothing, and car maintainance, insurance and gas.)

Not out in the rural west where the poor *have* to own a car inorder to work.
While your numbers make it sound like it is no great burden, consider this:
for those families who only survive month to month, such an increase in their
expenses can cause a real budget crunch.  Also remember that the prices of
other goods are tied to the price of gasoline.  In the West, gas prices go
up, all other goods prices go up due to businesses increase cost for shipping.
So once again, you fail to see the big picture.


> Buy a snowmobile.  You can buy a snowmobile, motorcycle and Geo metro together
> for less than the price of a Ford Explorer or whatever other beast you
> are defending.  Snowmobiles are very practical as well - they are used
> to access our seismic stations north of the arctic circle in Norway, etc.
> They are used to move equipment as well as people and they do it fast and
> very efficiently (you never want to cart more fuel than you need to above the
> arctic circle).  Ski resorts also use snowmobiles for both people and equipment
> and even as ambulances.  They are more practical in the snow than the 4x4
> beasts.
>

Snowmobiles are not street legal vehicles.  They are also noisy and polute
since they do not have polution control devices.  They may be good in Alaska,
but they are not a practical form of transportation in the Snake River Valley.


> I may live in the east now, but I spent over 7 years living in the west.
> You say I don't understand the poor.  I have been poor.  I currently live near
> poor.  Both my parents were very poor when they were growing up - one in the
> city, one in a rural area.  Just 3 years ago, the house I lived in for the
> first several years of my life was razed along with several others as a
> crime-control measure in the poorest, most crime-ridden section of Philadelphia.
> I put myself through college - my parents would not have had the money to.
> I have been poor and I personally know the poor.

Then you should understand how the poor are affected by artifical raising of
prices.  I grew up in rural Oregon, a lot of my friends grew up in poor
families.  Eventhough my dad was a doctor, there were eight kids in my family,
which meant that we did not have alot of extra money for luxuries.  I also
put myself through college by working hard.  I did have an NROTC scholorship
which I also worked hard in high school so that I could be considered for
various such college aid since my parents did not have the money.

> Your argument strikes me as something else, however.  A few exchanges back,
> you were defending your big 4x4 - normally a very expensive machine, a sign
> of someone well-to-do.  You are undoubtedly quite well off.  You never
> mention any personal experience with poor people or being poor yourself.
> It makes me suspect that you are using the poor as an excuse to further
> your own lifestyle choices, not out of any concern for the poor.  I hope
> that's not true, but the color of your arguments make it appear that way.
> --
> Richard Stead
> Center for Seismic Studies
> Arlington, VA
> [e-mail]
>

Total bunk!  My example of the 4x4 was that quite a few people out here in the
West *must* have a 4x4 to work and survive due to the winters.  Most of the
people who own the big 4X4s you are talking about are blue-collar workers
who either need it for their work or want it for the status symbol.  I am
concerned about the first and not the second.  If I must have a 4x4 in order
to ensure my safety during the winter, I should not be penalized.  That was
my point if you would remember.  As for me using the poor as an excuse, that
is a mighty low blow.  I have gotten to the point I am at in life based on my
own planning and hard work.  Several of my brothers, sisters, and friends have
had worst times making ends meet than I have.  It is from their stories and
from my personnal experiences and obserations that I base my arguements
against a gas tax.

If that is too hard for you to understand, then that is your loss and not mine.

>
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