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- Newsgroups: sci.anthropology
- Path: sparky!uunet!munnari.oz.au!manuel.anu.edu.au!dubhe.anu.edu.au!csis!prl
- From: prl@csis.dit.csiro.au (Peter Lamb)
- Subject: Re: Jared Diamond's _The Third Chimpanzee_
- Message-ID: <1993Jan25.050047.113@csis.dit.csiro.au>
- Organization: CSIRO Division of Information Technology
- References: <1993Jan22.003839.9572@eos.arc.nasa.gov> <727754815snx@tillage.DIALix.oz.au>
- Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 05:00:47 GMT
- Lines: 49
-
- gil@tillage.DIALix.oz.au (Gil Hardwick) writes:
-
-
- >In article <1993Jan22.003839.9572@eos.arc.nasa.gov> stav@eos.arc.nasa.gov writes:
- > > Ovulation in chimpanzees as well as humans is hidden, you can not watch
- > > it happen. Howver, in chimps there are physical signs indicating it
- > > occurs. This does not happen in humans. There is no external physical
- > > indication of ovulation.
-
- That's not quite true. The Billings method of birth control (or
- fertility enhancement) uses external indications to detect ovulation.
- The main indicator is a change in the consistency in vaginal mucus.
- Many (most?) women (and their partners) can learn to identify this
- change, though some cannot. It is not usually used alone as an
- indicator, but is usually combined with other methods, such as basal
- temperature. The change in the character of the mucus is not
- a "smelly discharge" as Gil characterises what he seems to think is
- an indicator of ovulation.
-
- >What do you mean by no "external physical indication", however?
- >Excuse me ladies, no red, swollen vulva with a smelly discharge
- >and whatnot? Is that what you would want me to discuss with you,
- >were you less "civilised" and gentlemanly?
-
- >Lining up ten women would be an interesting exercise, if we could
- >carry it out at an appropriately cross-cultural level of validity
- >to be certain of our results (and indeed get away with it without
- >causing a riot in each village we visited).
-
- > > Seems to me you are misconstruing menstruation with ovulation.
-
- >Not at all, although you have perhaps entered this thread late. I have
- >twice now quite explicitly stated that I am referring to Pre-menstrual
- >Tension (PMT) as the most commonly visible indicator that ovulation is
- >taking place, raising the query in why in certain identifiable social
- >traditions such indication is regarded as an illness, or behavioural
- >abberation.
-
- Gil, about how many days prior to menstruation do you think ovulation
- occurs in humans? For how many days prior to menstruation do women typically
- experience PMT? The former is about 10-12 days, and the most fertile time
- is a few days before and a few days after that. As I understand it
- (and being a male I must confess to a lack of direct understanding),
- PMT usually occurs for a few days before menstruation, and would
- be a poor indication of fertility, and in most cases would be a reasonably
- reliable indicator of infertility.
-
- --
- Peter Lamb (prl@csis.dit.csiro.au)
-