NetNews Usenet Archive 1993 #3/NN_1993_3.iso/spool/rec/autos/32836

Internet Message Format | 1993-01-28 | 127.0 KB

Path: sparky!uunet!ogicse!flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU!rutgers!rwja!holowczk
From: [e-mail] (Richard Holowczak)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: Car Alarm FAQ once again
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Jan 93 21:19:28 GMT
Article-I.D.: rwja.1896
Distribution: rec
Organization: Robert Wood Johnson Medical School, Piscataway NJ
Lines: 3043

It seems the talk of car alarms is picking up again so I am posting
my FAQ again.  Please don't flame the Hell out of me like last time.  :)
As usual, please mail any suggestions, additions or corrections to me.
Thanks to all who contributed.


Rich H.
Rutgers U.
========================================================================

Last Update:    January 20, 1993
--------------------------------

I think I have enough options covered here to justify a FAQ. If some
one can tell me where to put it, I'll maintain it. Otherwise, I'll
just keep posting it from time to time as needed.


Rich Holowczak
[e-mail]

=============================== ALARM FAQ =========================
Thanks for everyone who sent me mail and posted suggestions on car
alarms. Here is my summary of what I got.

Disclaimer
----------
All of these statements you see below are my opinion only. I do not
profess to be a car alarm expert, a criminologist, an electrician
or a car thief.  Also, all opinions expressed are my own or are from
other netters out there.  These opinions in no way reflect the opinions
of Rutgers University in any way shape or form.


What I got back
---------------
I posted my quandary over car alarms in alt.locksmithing and
rec.audio.cars and got many responses.  Thanks to all of you who
wrote to me.  I received responses ranging from: "Do not even
bother with an alarm. They are all useless and a waste of money."
to "Just stick a blinking LED on your dash. This will ward off all
thieves because they are stupid."  I also got a wide range of stuff
in between.  All of these responses are posted at the end of this
FAQ.


Thieves
-------
I guess I would classify car thieves in to 3 categories. One would
be your average teenager out for a joyride. He or she is probably
looking for an unlocked car or a car sitting with the keys in it or
perhaps a car sitting in a secluded area. At most they might carry
a slim jim to open up a door or wield a rock to smash a small vent
window.

It seems there might also be a type 1a individual who is looking for
a car to joyride and smash into other cars and people with. They
will probably only go for the easiest cars to steal but there are
exceptions.

Number two would be your amateur car thief who breaks in to cars to
take out the radio or steals the car to go some place and abandon
it. Provided there are not many witnesses, he might pry open your
door with a crowbar or break a window to get in.  He probably
carries a small bag of tools with which to rip out your stereo.

Number three would be the professional car thief. He steals your
car and takes it to a strip house (within minutes) where any and
all valuable parts are stripped off.  This includes car alarms,
stereos, wheels, doors, quarter panels, etc. Some parts enter a
sort of "black market" for car parts and can even end up on the
shelf at your local gas station.  This thief will have an arsenal of
tools with him.  He might employ an RF scanner to scan your alarm
transmitter or might even have a friend with a tow truck to drag your car
kicking and screaming away.  He will also target cars and keep logs
on when the car is left unattended and where.

I think that most car alarms are effective at warding off numbers
one and two.  However, no amount of alarms or other theft
deterrents can stop number three.  As most people say, *NOTHING*
can stop someone from taking your car if they really want it. I
agree with this.

The whole point to an alarm or any theft deterrent is to make your
car less of a target then the next guys. I now have an alarm and I
also use a steering wheel lock bar.  I know that wherever I park,
there are at least 3 or 4 cars around me with no alarm or no
steering wheel lock so this makes my car less attractive to steal.
This is how I approached purchasing a car alarm.


What I did
----------
I went shopping for alarms in the $300 - $400 range. My car dealer
wanted $500 for a rather flimsy system. I also saw several alarms
in the $150 - $250 range which did not include some of the more
important features I was looking for.  There is a nice collections of
info on this range of alarms in the COMMENTS section.

I looked at systems from:

Viper
VSE Derringer/2
Alpine
Clifford
Code Alarm (High end)
UNGO Box


The Alpine and Code Alarm were well out of my price range (over 1K
for a complete system). Code alarm has some cheaper systems but no one
close to me had them.  The only installer near me who carried the
Clifford assumed I knew nothing about alarms and tried to rip me
off big time.  He was consequently shot down by some 30 questions
I fired at him.  I also found out the installer who does the UNGO
box was under investigation by the police for following customers
home and stealing their cars.  (see Dealers)

I'm sure the UNGO box and the Clifford are nice systems but I can't
travel 100 miles every time I have a little problem with my alarm.

I have a worksheet of questions I asked the various installers. I
also included whether or not the Viper or Derringer has these
features. I placed it after the information section of this posting.

Dealers
--------
Try to get some good recommendations from others before you go to a
dealer.  As I mentioned, some are more reputable than others. Ask
for references from other customers.  Also, ask to see some of their
work.  Ask to look on as they install a system. See how wires are routed,
components mounted, etc.  Also, try one of their systems out. I took
the remote out of one guy's hand and walked across the parking lot arming
and disarming his system to check the range on the remote.  If I'm about
to put down $400 - $1000 on a system to protect my much larger investment,
I think this kind of scruitiny is justified.

Also, when you take your car for the install, or for any service
for that matter, take everything out of your glove compartment
which might further identify you and where you live. Don't give
them your entire set of keys. Just the ones for the car.


"Standard" features
-------------------
One thing to be aware of.  In the sales brochures, the alarms are
listed with many "standard" features. For the Derringer, there is
the convenient Dome Light feature, etc. The catch is, just because
the alarm manufacturer thinks this is "standard", the alarm
installer might not do it as part of the package price.  So make
sure you find out about every last detail of the install *BEFORE*
the installer begins.


The installation
----------------
This is the number one feature you should shop for in an alarm. A
great alarm system installed poorly will cause you grief in a great
many ways.  False alarms, no alarms, etc. are just a few.  While I
was getting mine installed, a fella came in with his Mustang which
had a "factory" installed alarm system.  The motion sensor was
mounted along a beam where water collected and shorted it out. Ask
your installer where EVERYTHING is going to be placed.

The main alarm unit, sometimes called the "brain", should be
mounted in the most secure place you can.  I had mine placed up
inside the dashboard.  They basically took the whole dash apart,
installed the alarm, and then put the whole dash together around
it. Some places wanted to install the brain under a seat or even up
under the carpet on the passenger side ("so we can adjust it
easier").  Run, do not walk, away from these installers.

Story time: I had one fella write me that his car was broken in to.
They defeated the alarm by simply cutting a few wires.  I would
think that if the alarm is hidden properly and wires are not left
exposed, this would be slightly difficult.  As I mentioned on
my system, the brain unit is literally inside the dash up against the
fire wall.  The only wires which come out of there are to the LED and
to the valet switch.  It does not do anything to the system if these
wires are cut.  If anything, cutting the valet switch wires will set the
alarm off.

Repairs or problems
-------------------
It is also important to get, up front, what the policy is if you
have problems with your system.  Some installers said I would have
to make an appointment to bring the car back in.  The installer who
I finally chose says to bring the car back in whenever I want to.
He will stop working on a new install to take care of any problems.
Since I've had no problems yet, I don't know how much of this is
true, but it sure sounds good. He also schedules free sessions
where they go over the car every 3 to 6 mo. to make sure the alarm
is still functioning properly.

Update to this: My dash started making a rattling noise about 2 mo. after
the alarm was installed.  I called them up, they said to bring it right over.
I did and they went over the whole dash tightening up all of the screws and
fittings, etc. No charge, no hassle.


Remotes
-------
All alarm manufacturers claim they have super long range remotes
that never break, etc. This is BS.  The range is only as good as
where the installer places the RF receiver in the car.  The Viper
remote is kind of flimsy but the buttons are recessed and small so
it is almost impossible to mash down the buttons while the thing is
in your pocket (or wife/girlfriend's purse).  I have heard of
people running down the remote batteries this way. Some remotes
even have a limit on how long the transmitter will stay on. If you
press and hold a button, the transmitter might come on for about 5
seconds and then automatically cut off until you release and press
again.

Update: I was washing the car and had the alarm set in valet mode. With
keys in pocket, I bent down to scrub a door panel when the alarm
locked my doors (I have this feature).  Seems when I bent down, the
keys were in just the right spot to press the arm button.

I have also heard several people comment about the Derringer
remotes being not so good.  The guy at the alarm place sells both
Derringer and Viper and said the Derringer remotes have some
problems.


From Robert Lau:
Derringer 1 remotes were pretty big.  Really old ones had plastic dome
buttons, later switched to rubber.  The old plastic domes wore down after a
few years, I've had one for 6 years now, and you can see the metal contact.
Derringer 2 remotes are about half as thick, about .3", and a bit smaller.
The main drawback is the way they are coded.  It uses a plastic sheet with
punch-outs that either allow or disallow contacts to the coding circuitry,
replacing the header/jumper method used in the Derringer 1 remotes.  This
is how the remotes can be as thin as they are.  Unfortunately, there have
been problems with the sheet, punch-outs falling off I believe, thereby
changing the code, rendering the remote useless...  Also, it makes changing
codes very inconvenient.

As far as range is concerned, if my car is in a full parking lot or
parking deck, I cannot arm or disarm my alarm from more than 50
feet away and only in line of sight at that.  When my car is in the
driveway, I can trigger the alarm from inside my living room. Go
figure.

Make sure you know what kind of battery the remote takes and how
long they last.  It would be a shame to end up spending an arm and
a leg on some tiny powerful battery every 3 months.

Automatic Reset
---------------
Remember Beverly Hills Cop 2 where the kids ride down the street
smacking the cars and setting off all of the alarms?  The reason is
this: Cheaper alarms do not reset once they go off.  All of the systems
I looked at have a limit on the time the siren goes off (about 60 sec.)
and then they reset.  In some areas, you can get a ticket for
disturbing the peace if your alarm goes off too much.  Make sure the
system has some kind of intelligence in this area.  Most systems
will "lock out" a sensor if it being tripped constantly for a long
period of time.  The alarm will remain armed and all other
sensors will remain active.


Sirens
------
Kind of hand-in-hand with the reset feature.  Some cheaper systems sound the
siren until you manually disarm the system.  Others automatically reset after
60 seconds.  Most people agree that 60 seconds worth of alarm is enough to
alert you and to scare of those thieves who are scared off by alarms. It has
become a very big issue in the cities and other areas where many alarms are
falsing all of the time.  Some places can and do issue summonses for this.

Most sirens are loud enough to get the job done.  I don't have much data on
this but usually they are rated in terms of decibels.  The higher the db number,
the louder the alarm (supposedly).  Some alarms have very distinctive sirens.
At least one system cycles through about 5 different noises.

Take a listen and see which alarms have loud enough and distinctive enough
sirens for your tastes.

Where the siren is mounted is very important.  This kinda goes in the
installation section...  A 120db+ siren is pretty useless if it's installed
with its mouth plastered against a shock tower.  Make sure you ask the
installer where and how they mounted it.  Stuff like whether it's too close
to the engine's exhaust manifold (heat) and whether it's going to collect
water, etc.

Robert Lau (among others) also suggested installing an internal siren
inside the cabin.  Faced with a 110db + siren in their face, I think most
thieves would move on.  Just rememeber, if the alarm falses while you are in
the car, then you will be submitted to the same treatment.  Perhaps some
from of lockout for this siren if the car is already running?  Now
we're getting sophisticated!


Starter Kill or Ignition Kill
-----------------------------
Basically, when the alarm is armed, the starter is electronically
disconnected so the car cannot be started or even hot wired. Again,
most alarms have this as a standard feature but be sure to ask
about it. Also note, if the wires to the alarm and the wires to
the starter are exposed or can be pulled out, an experienced thief can
rewire around the starter kill and still hot-wire your car.
(see Insurance below).

Engine Kill
-----------
There has been some talk of alarms which might help in Car-jacking
situations.  An engine kill switch was suggested which, when activated would
shut the engine off or hamper the fuel flow in some way to at least
slow the car down.  These might be illegal as they would pose a safety
threat if the car is traveling at high speeds when the engine cuts off.
I don't know of any alarms that have this feature "standard" although I'm
sure a better dealer would be able to whip something up for you.


There was a good posting recently covering newer car-jacking specific alarms.
Here it is, you might have it already.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [e-mail] (T.M.Haddock)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
Subject: Carjacking Alarms
Date: 13 Nov 92 17:20:30 GMT

 The October 1992 issue of Car Audio & Electronics has an article about
 carjacking and alarms.  Here is a quick rundown:

 1:  HOFCO PASSIVE HOLD-UP SYSTEM by Hofco Auto Security
     A hidden switch must be pressed within a certain time after the
     engine has started or after any door has been opened and closed
     while the engine is running.  The car will be disabled shortly
     thereafter.  A valet mode is included.

 2:  STOP THIEF by West Coast Car Audio
     A passive device that will disable the car within 20 seconds of
     engine start or if doors are opened after engine is running if
     hidden switch is not pressed.  If restart is tried, the car horn
     will start sounding.

 3:  SENTRY TOP-300 by KTK Engineering
     A passive device that will activate an inside piezo siren within
     30 seconds of engine start if hidden switch is not pressed.  That
     is followed by 30 seconds of lights flashing which is then followed
     by the underhood siren and engine kill.  Total time to engine kill
     is 90 seconds but if siren wires are cut, engine kill is activated
     immediately.

 4:  THE CARJACKER by ?
     An active device that requires the driver to push a button to start
     a time that will disable the car after 2 minutes.

 5:  CRIMESTOPPER's 9200M series of alarms (including the 9228MX,HP9235,
     HP9255) can be combined with the 785 "data link" and remote starter.
     Requires separate remote control to activate alarm.  After activation,
     siren will sound 2 minutes later followed 8 seconds later by activation
     of anti-hijack output.  The circuit could be used to control sirens,
     fuel cut-off, ignition disable, or other carjacking deterrents.
     WARNING!  Crimestopper advises against the use of toxic substances,
               biological or chemical agents, or explosive devices.  Damn! ;)

 6:  ALPINE offers an option to their 8080 Security System called the 8316
     Comunicator linked through the 8336 Security Data Interface that will
     allow the car owner to activate numerous functions via the Alpine
     9542 Celluar Phone.  The Alpine celluar phone can also communicate
     directly with most other security systems.

 7:  CALLGAURD by Clifford.
     Offers the same features as the Alpine system but offers such extra
     features as disabling the engine only when the car comes to a stop
     like at a red light or stop sign and will call any preprogrammed
     number and with a synthesized voice, will announce the theft of your
     vehicle and its license plate number.

 8:  POSSE by Adaptive Vehicle Systems
     A pager activated device that will disable you car, flash lights, and
     sound the siren when it receives a special code.  A nation-wide,
     satellite based system that works wherever a paging system is located.
     Just dial a 1-800 number, punch in you secret code, and if your car
     is anywhere in North America, it will be "paged".

 9:  TELETRAC VEHICLE TRACKING SYSTEM by PacTel
     Audiovox, Code-Alarm, Kenwood, Mitsubishi, and Samsung offer electronic
     devices that work with the Teletrac system to locate your car anywhere
     in North America.  The system is accurate to within 100 feet.


 Hope this helps.

 TRAVIS
 [e-mail]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Valet switch
------------
This is a toggle switch you can set to keep your alarm from going
off if you have to leave it with a valet or for car repairs.  Most
of the systems I looked at have this feature.  Make sure flipping the
valet switch will not disarm the system. I have seen alarms that do
this and I can't believe it.  On the Viper system, you have to have the
alarm disarmed (via remote) and the key must be in the ignition in the
"On" position but the engine cannot be running.  If all of these
conditions are true then it will go in to valet mode.  Otherwise,
the alarm is triggered.

Passive v. Active arming
------------------------
With passive arming, the alarm becomes armed after a given time
period after the last car door has closed. To disarm, you can
either get in to the car and place the key in the ignition within
a certain time period or press a button on a remote transmitter to
disarm the alarm.

With active arming, you have to press a button on a transmitter to
arm the alarm. To disarm, you press the transmitter button again.

On the Viper system, you can actively arm and disarm the alarm with
the remote.  However, if you forget to arm the alarm, 30 seconds
after the last door or trunk has closed, the alarm automatically
arms itself. This makes a difference for insurance purposes. (see
Insurance below).  I just have to make sure I never close the door
with my keys sitting on the seat! (I also have automatic locks).
Someone posted that this is a good way to get screwed if your alarm
becomes armed with they keys inside.  With my system, the alarm
"knows" when the keys are in the ignition and will not arm if they are.
I never ever ever ever leave my keys just sitting there on the seat.
Especially when I stop to make a phone call as this fella suggested.


Arming and Disarming beeps
--------------------------
Most alarms give you an audible alert when the alarm is armed or
disarmed.  This serves two purposes. One is to let you know the
alarm is working and on the job.  The other is to let others
(thieves) know you car has an alarm.  The Viper does one simple
chirp for arm and two for disarm. Some alarms have really long
annoying arming sequences that go on for ever. In a quiet
neighborhood, this is not appreciated I assure you.

One great feature on the Viper system. Every time you arm or disarm
the system, you have the option of doing so silently.  Most other
alarms give you this choice at installation time only so you are
stuck with one or the other.

With the lights hooked up, the Viper would still flash the parking
lights to tell you the alarm is armed or disarmed.


Motion sensor
-------------
Some alarms like the UNGO box and others have a motion sensor.  In
the UNGO Box's case, it is a tube filled with mercury surrounded by
a wire coil.  When the car moves, the mercury moves within the tube
causing current to flow in the coil.  This is what sets the alarm
off.  Others have some type of spring with a weight on it so when
the car moves, the weight bobbles back and forth and makes contact
with the casing causing the circuit to be completed.  The former
method has a patent, the latter has no patent because it is
worthless.  If you have ever heard a parking lot full of alarms
going off at an airport or a parking deck, it is because of this
type of sensor.  These are prone to false alarms from passing
trucks, thunder, airplanes, etc.

The UNGO Box's sensor is highly adjustable, however, if you adjust
it to eliminate all false alarms, then you have basically disabled
its usefulness for triggering real alarms IMHO. Some people swear
by this sensor so I leave it to you to decide.  One more point about
mercury switches in general, when the temperature rises, mercury will
move and may trigger the alarm.  Often you hear people who have
problems with their alarms only in the Summertime.  This is why.

BTW, this can be added to my system as another input.


Shock sensor
------------
This is what comes standard on the Viper and most other alarms
except the Derringer.  It basically senses motion like a motion
sensor but scans a very short period of time.  I can rock my car
and push up and down on it and the shock sensor will not go off. If
I kick a tire or hit the window or door with my fist, the alarm
goes off. So far (4 months) I have had no false alarms from rain
(tropical storm Daniell), thunder, large trucks or parking deck
vibrations.  Make sure your shock sensor is adjustable and that
your installer will do adjustments free of charge with no
appointment needed.

Glass breakage sensor
---------------------
What this is supposed to do is pick up on the particular high
frequencies of glass being broken or cut and to trigger the alarm.
It is basically a microphone placed somewhere inside the car. This
is standard on the Derringer and an option on most other systems
like the UNGO, Alpine and Viper. I have heard that as a car ages,
the creaks and squeaks from plastic panels shifting and other car
noises can also set off the glass sensor.  I don't know how true
this is. Many people have written to me that this is THE most important
sensor for a car alarm.  Not only can it detect glass breaking, but
also glass cutting on some better sensors.  For me, this is a toss
up.  These sensors have improved within the last few years.


Field motion sensor
-------------------
I have no idea what else to call this (some call it a perimeter
guard).  Basically this is the type of sensor which sets up some
type of field around the car and inside the car to detect masses
coming close to the car. I think it is a must for convertible
owners.  If you get one of these, be prepared to pay big bucks.
There are many cheap ones you can add to any alarm, but you will
have nothing but problems with them (i.e. false alarms).  Some
Alpine systems are designed especially for this type of sensor and
have a price tag to match.

For other cars, I think these are unnecessary.  Some cheap units
are set off by anything.  There is a car parked right outside of my
classroom which is always being set off by falling rain and passers
by. Very annoying.  There are other fancy alarms which have a pre-
recorded message like "Please step away from the car . . . ".  I
think these are really stupid and a waste of money.  I once
witnessed a new BMW being tortured by a group of kids throwing
rocks at it just to hear the little voice go off.

Once again, where I have to leave my car, people are basically
animals who will not leave something like this alone so I did not
go for it.  However, it makes you look cool if you want to impress
people who are generally impressed with stuff like this.

Current sensor
--------------
This basically monitors the current drain on the battery.  If it
changes, i.e. a door is opened causing a light to come on, the
alarm is triggered.  This is how many cheap alarms are triggered.
They just monitor the current.  The doors and trunk are all
protected because they have lights which will come on when opened.
Some of the cheaper system use this as the ONLY method of triggering
the alarm.

The problem is, most newer cars have a fan inside the engine
compartment which comes on even after the car is turned off.  The
resulting drain on the battery will trigger a current sensor.  Some
installers will have some type of bypass for this but it sounds
like more trouble than it's worth.

This just in:  I've been told that most current sensing alarms DO
come with a fan bypass.  These seem to work well enough.  There
are still limitations with current sensors ONLY though.  One writer
suggested that if you must leave your car with the hazard lights on
this would trigger the current sensor.

Seat pressure sensor
--------------------
If someone sits in the seat, the alarm is triggered.  Not very
practical unless you have a convertible or big T-tops. By the time
the thief is in your seat, your car or your stereo is history
anyway.

Backup Battery
--------------
I also got a back up battery installed.  It charges off of the car
alternator just like the car's battery. If the car's battery goes
dead or if the power cables are cut, the battery can still run the
alarm and the siren.  The alarm will remain armed.

With cheaper alarms and/or poor installations, some systems might
end up wired in to your car in a haphazard way. Most alarms flash
the car's parking lights when activated. All a thief has to do is
short out a parking light, set your alarm off and whammo, your car
and the alarm goes dead. Several people have written me to say that
this cannot happen to a properly installed alarm.  I think the key
word here is "Properly".  Enough said. Anyway, thief gets in,
replaces the right fuses and off he goes. With mine, the back up
battery is on a separate circuit so it can't be fooled with at
all, unless you are in the car and have most of the dashboard
apart. It cost about $60 extra. I think it is worth it.
(see Insurance below)

Another method for defeating alarms, as some have mentioned, is to crawl
under the car and cut the battery wire or wires (I'm not sure, either + or -).
Then there is no power to the alarm at all.  A back up battery can be
installed to protect against this.


Automatic Door locks/Unlocks
----------------------------
Another neat feature I got is automatic door locking. This is an
option on most alarms.  It uses what they call an "output" from the
alarm which can be programmed to do various things. Most installers
set this up so that when the alarm is armed, all doors lock and when
the alarm is disarmed, all doors unlock.  This is a nice feature if
you are carrying things in your arms and need to lock or unlock a
door. This is especially nice if you have groceries or are holding
an infant or something.  Also in the rain, it is nice to be able to
unlock your car from within your house so you can just run out and
get in.  If you have power locks to begin with, this is an easy
add on.  If you have manual locks, the dealer will have to install
solenoids and actuators to physically move the locks to the "locked"
and "unlocked" positions.

I did something a bit different. When I arm the alarm (or the alarm
arms itself passively after 30 seconds), all of my doors are locked
automatically.  However, when I disarm the alarm, the doors remain
locked. I did this so if someone is approaching my car, all of my
doors won't suddenly become unlocked when I go to get in.  Also, if
a thief somehow scans my transmitter code and disarms the alarm, he
will still have to break in to the car to get it unlocked (not that
this is at all difficult).  I have heard various arguments on both
sides of this but I think my solution makes sense for me.

If you are in primarily non-threatening situations, then it is nice
to have your car doors lock and unlock automatically. Mine cost extra
for the door locking feature.  Some installers do this for free if you
have power locks to begin with.

BTW, see my points about door locking and passive arming above in the
Active/Passive Arming section.


Pagers
------
A pager (One brand is called Autopage) is used to page your beeper
when your car alarm goes off.  This way you can run to the parking
lot and chase a potential car thief away or catch the person who
just rammed in to your car before they speed away.  I can agree
with wanting to catch someone who has vandalized my car but I can't
see warding off a thief. First of all, where I must park, if
someone is stealing my car, and I come running up, they will
probably shoot me so they can take my keys to drive the car away.
Also, I park pretty far from where I attend classes and work so
even if the pager has the range to reach me, I'd have to run 3/4 of
a mile to my car when it goes off.

Needless to say, I did not get a pager installed. I think I can at
a later time so perhaps when I move to a better place in a land
far, far away . . .

Some people have written to me saying that they use the paging
system to alert them as soon as their car is broken in to.  This way,
they can call the police right away.  Also, if their car is stolen,
they can get the police to start tracking it with Lo-Jack or something
similar.  If many others in your building have alarms, a pager is nice
to have so you aren't always wondering if it's your alarm going off.

With all of the recent discussions about neighborhoods full of squaking
alarms, some have suggested disconnecting the siren and just using the
pager as a kind of silent alarm.  Only you know the alarm has been tripped.
The thief and others do not.

BTW, pagers may also use up an "output" on the alarm unit. Some
hook on to the siren and are triggered off of the vibration when
the alarm goes off. Kind of hokey if you ask me but a blessing if
you have no more alarm outputs.

Insurance
---------
Most insurance companies offer a percentage discount on your
premium if you install an alarm. I have a USAA policy which gave me
something like a 15% discount. Hey, 20 buck is 20 bucks!  The
biggest discounts go to alarms with passive arming. This means that
the alarm arms itself so you don't have to remember to do so.  If
you get a backup battery or a pager, also mention that.  Also, a
starter kill feature is mandatory for most alarms.  You must have
the stickers which announce the presence of your alarm displayed in
your car windows in order to be accepted.  My advice: Call your
insurance company and ask them if you need to send something to
them proving you had the alarm installed and the features it has.
Your installer should provide you with a letter or some type of
form to submit.

Different states and different insurance policies have a wide
range of discounts.  Some offer no discounts but others can
go as high as 35% (in MA) for an alarm+recovery system like Lo-Jack.

Scanning
-----------
It seems that with cheaper and/or older alarms, it is possible to
transmit all of the codes in rapid fire sequence to a car alarm.
Eventually, you will hit upon the right code combination to disarm
the alarm.  Each alarm has a limit on the number of codes. For
example, the Derringer/2 only has 4096 while the Viper system has
2 to the 29th codes.

Here are some models and the number of codes they support. Any others
out there???????

Model                        Codes
--------------------         -----------
Code-Alarm Nighthawk         32,000
Excalibur AL-800             19,000
Kenwood KPC-60               65,536
VSE Derringer/2              4096      but this may have anti-scanning feature
Directed Electronics Viper   2**29


The scanning equipment is rather expensive (~$50K) so only the
professional car thieves are going to use this.

Newer (and probably more expensive) alarms can sense scanning
and lock out further attempts for a given period of time.

In many cases, it might not be worth the extra money for this
feature. I have no idea which alarms support this so it goes down
on the questions sheet.

Features in general
-------------------
Some people might have gotten the impression that some alarm
features are useless or a waste of money.  It may be that these
features were not important to *me* personally, but they might be
important to you.  You have to decide if this feature will benefit
you and how much you are willing to pay for it. The Autopage is one
such example.  It might not make sense for me, but you might work
in a office where 20 people have alarms.  It's nice to know which
car alarm is going off without everyone running into the parking
lot to find out.

Determining your needs
----------------------
One way to determine your needs is to write down all of the situations
you place yourself and your car in.  Things like going to the movies,
stopping at red lights, getting gas, getting the car washed, going to
work, etc, etc.  After each situation, write down how you would like
your car alarm to act or react.


Tinted Windows and professional thieves
---------------------------------------
Recently, there has been some talk of tinted windows warding off
thieves.  IMHO, I think these attract more attention rather than
ward off someone just because they can't see inside.  Besides, the
thief heard your "Boomin' System" when you pulled up so he knows
you have something decent inside.

To tell or not to tell
----------------------
Some people have expressed the opinion that it is best to
hide any evidence of your alarm and wait for the thief to set it
off and then get scared and run away.  The thinking here is that if
you put the stickers on your windows identifying your brand
of car alarm, it gives the thief an edge because he now knows what
kind of alarm he must defeat.  Along these lines, most every alarm
has a distinctive sound when it is armed and disarmed.  Also, each siren
gives off distinct sounds as well.  All a thief must do is listen to
you arming and disarming your system and he can set your car alarm off
by throwing a rock at it or something.  From these two indicators, he
probably has a very good idea of what brand of alarm you have. (as well
as the fact that you have one to begin with).

Most insurance discounts are only valid if you place the stickers on your
car.


Other hints
-----------
Aside from the alarm, I also got a set of wheel locks and a
steering wheel locking bar (The Club). (I know, I know! you don't
have to tell me how easy it is to defeat these! :)  I never leave
anything in my car at all. No books, briefcase, jackets, etc. and
I never open the trunk to put anything in unless I'm ready to drive
away.  Aside from these things, I can't think of any other measures
I can take to prevent my car from being stolen or broken in to.
(BTW, my cassette player is broken so don't bother taking it!)

One last thing.  I always carry a *copy* of my car key, not the original.
If someone gets my keys, they still won't know which car is mine.
It is fairly easy to tell between an American car and foreign car key
but it will still slow them down a bit. Some people even recommend
carrying the alarm transmitter on another ring or in another pocket.
This way, if a thief gets the keys, he can't disarm the alarm. If he
gets the transmitter, he still has to break in, etc.

Lo-Jack and other recovery systems
(Thanks to Jim Frost <[e-mail]>)
--------------------------------------------
These systems consist of some type of hidden transmitter which sends
out a tracking signal when you car is stolen.  The police can then
find your car using scanning equipment. The most popular model is called
Lo-Jack which works on RF basis.  Code Alarm sells a complete system
which is based on cellular technology for about $1,500. The main problems
with these systems are the following: If the thief finds the transmitter
and can disable it you and the cops are out of luck. On some systems,
you have to call the manufacturer's number and report it stolen. Then
they have to call the police to get it tracked (if the police have the
proper tracking equipment).  This can waste time.  A pro can have your
car in hundreds of pieces within 1/2 hour.  Other systems can be
activated right away so the wait is much less.

Also, the latest trend around here is for joyriders to smash a stolen
car into as many other cars as possible.  They even look for police cars
to smash into.  A recovery system is not going to help here.

The Lo-Jack systems also have many alarm-like features such as starter
kill, sirens, remotes, etc.  I think a combination of features is best
but the price does get up there.  See my conversations with Jim at the
end of the comments section.

The Club
---------
(Note: By "The Club" I am referring to the family of locking bars which
 mounts on your steering wheel. There are many different models and
 variations of this.)

There have been many messages posted asking "Does the club work?" or
"Is the club effective?"  Most people respond with a long list of ways
to defeat them.  My point here is to educate those who watch the
friendly police man on TV telling them that the club is the end all
cure all for car theft prevention.  Sadly, he is quite mistaken.

Here is a brief list of the ways to defeat the club :

        Stick a screwdriver or lock puller in and pry out the lock
        Pick the (very pickable) lock
        Cut the (softer) steering wheel and wedge the club off
        Cut the club with a special carbide blade or butane torch
        Spray the club with freon and shatter it with a hammer (really!)
        Brace your feet on outside of club and pull in the middle to bend
         the club in half
        Remove the steering wheel and steer with vice grips or with a
         replacement steering wheel

I'm sure there are others.  These methods have all been posted within the
past 3 months.

The bottom line is this.  The club will keep the casual (non pro) car
thief away from your car if there are other cars around without the club.
A pro can get one of these off in matter of seconds so it is not an
issue with them.  It's funny how places that sell the club tell you that
car alarms are worthless and the car alarm places tell you that the
club is worthless.

One thing I do to frustrate the lock pickers and pullers is to put
the club on backwards so the lock faces the dash.  This makes it
very hard to lock and unlock with the key much less with a pick or a
screwdriver.

BTW, many universities offer a "rental" club for students and/or
faculty.  One guy told me he got the club to use for $20.  I think
that was for a year but it might have been longer.  For $20, if it
deters one thief, it is worth it.  (once again IMHO)

========================== QUESTIONS LIST =================================


Anyway, on to the LIST! Remember, after each question on this list,
you should ask: "Is this included in the price or is it extra?"

I have had several readers post the list back to me with some of their
comments on alarms.  I have filled in the list as best I can.  If there
is no comment either the alarm does not have that feature or I have no
information on it.

Otherwise:

            D  = VSE Derringer/2
            V  = Viper 300/600
            U  = UNGO Box
            C  = Code Alarm Nighthawk
            LJ = Lo-Jack car recovery system
                 (see comments for more info on Lo-Jack systems)


)     Include switch pins for all 4 doors? (D,V,U,C)

)     Include switch pin for trunk? (D,V,U,C)

)     Include switch pin for hood? (D,V,U,C)

)     Include ignition kill when alarm is armed (also called Starter
      disable or Starter Kill)? (D,V-option,U,C, LJ - Level II and III)

)     Include Glass breakage sensor?  (D) What is the quality of
      this sensor?  Is it prone to false alarms (i.e. from creaking
      of inner car parts)?

)     Can the glass breakage sensor also be triggered by glass
      cutting?

)     Include a seat pressure sensor?

)     Include a high quality adjustable motion sensor (if not very
      adjustable then forget it) ? (U)

)     Include a "dual sensitivity" switch for the motion detector
      (as with the Ungo box)? (U)

)     Include a switch to de-activate just the motion sensor?

)     Include a shock sensor? (V,C)

)     Is the shock sensor user adjustable? (V-no,C-Yes)

)     Can the shock sensor be shut off or disabled? (V-no)

)     Include a "field" sensor to sense moving objects? (Some Alpine
      systems)

)     Is this field sensor an "add-on" or is the alarm specifically
      designed for this type of sensor? (Some alpine systems)

)     What is the quality of this field sensor?  Is it prone to
      false alarms (e.g. rain, dogs, cats, other cars, passers by)?

)     Is the field sensor user adjustable for distance and time
      spans?

)     Include a current sensor? (Many cheaper systems, LJ Level III)

)     If there is a current sensor, is there a fan bypass? Is it reliable?

)     Does the alarm have a "silent" testing mode so I can test the
      sensors, etc. (like the Derringer/2) ? (D)

)     Can the alarm be switched between active or passive arming
      (active arming only if not) every time the alarm is armed?
      (V, LJ is always in passive mode)

)     Are there multiple zones?  (i.e. All doors = zone1,
      trunk = zone2,  Hood = zone3 . . .) (D has 8, V has 2, C has 4)

)     Does each zone have lock out capability when armed (i.e. if I
      leave the trunk open, will the rest of the sensors still
      activate)? (D,V,C)

)     Main unit "brain" mounted inside the dash board behind the
      center column or inside the dashboard.

)     Two sirens, one placed in an inaccessible location under the
      hood.

)     How long does the alarm sound off for? (V - 60 sec.)

)     Is the length of alarm time user settable?

)     Does the alarm reset after being triggered?

)     Can you install an internal alarm to sound *inside* the car?

)     Is all wiring well hidden. No exposed wires at all, especially
      to sirens and batteries?

)     Is there a remote "Panic" mode or at least some type of
      "finder" mode? (D,V,U,C,LJ)

)     Are there relay outputs for automatic door locks when armed?
      (D,V,C)

)     Is there a switch for silent (lights flash only) or audible
      chirp when arming (like the Viper)? (V, C has a jumper)

)     Back-up battery which powers both alarm and siren (How is it
      wired? In series? parallel? re-chargeable?

)     Are there 2 separate fused power inputs to avoid disabling the
      alarm by shorting out?

)     Are the power inputs isolated and fused close to the battery
      to avoid shorting out?

)     How many remotes does it come with?

)     Can the brain recognize more remotes later?

)     What is the range of the remotes?

)     What is the battery life of the remotes?

)     What type of battery?  Where can I get them?

)     Does the transmitter have good range (Ask to test some!!)?

)     Do you have to be in line of sight to arm/disarm?

)     Does the transmitter stop transmitting after 1 second to avoid
      draining the transmitter battery?

)     Is it difficult to press down the buttons accidentally? (V,C,LJ)

)     How many codes can the transmitter use?  Is it easily
      scannable?  (D has 4,096, V has 2 to the 32, C has 32,000)

)     Does the main unit contain anti-scanning circuitry? (C)

)     Include a valet switch? (D,V,U,C,LJ)

)     Can a paging feature can be added at a later time? (D,V,U)

)     Does the pager use an additional output?

)     Is a dedicated pager available that can arm/disarm the alarm
      as well?  (Alpine 8080 has the 8201).

)     Does the dome light inside the car come on when the alarm is
      disarmed (Like the Derringer/2) ? (C)  Does this cost extra?

)     What is your (alarm dealer's) policy for repairs (if the car
      is broken in to and the alarm is damaged)?

)     What is your policy for sensor and adjustments?

)     What is your policy for alarm maintenance (i.e. check wires,
      batteries, etc.) ?

)     Does it have a recovery system?

)     Is the recovery system automatically activated if the alarm is not
      disarmed, or does it need to be activated by the alarm company or
      police?

)     What areas (states, portion of the world) does the recovery system
      work in?

)     How does the tracking system locate your car, does it provide absolute
      coordinates or is it relative to a tracking unit?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

I hope this has helped some of you.  Please send me more comments and
questions, etc. So I can build this up some more.


Rich Holowczak
[e-mail]


========================== COMMENTS ==============================

Here are a bunch of people's opinions on car alarms. I took
the most recent postings and added them in as well.
Hope this helps.

Rich Holowczak
[e-mail]

=========================================================================


From [e-mail] Wed Sep  2 19:57 EDT 1992
From: [e-mail] (Shawn Herzinger)

Hello Rich

I have a '90 Integra.  I had a VSE Derringer 2 installed about 1 1/2 years
ago.  I have never had a problem with it.  Its got every feature that you
want.  The two primary things to be concerned with in an alarm installation
are sensor quality and install quality.  All the "brains" from UNGO, Clifford
VSE, and Alpine are essentially the same.  As long as they are installed well,
and are getting clean power, they all do the same thing.  The sensors are
what you depend on however.  VSE's shatterguard sensor (included with the
Derringer 2) is a top-performer.  The Derringer 2 offers a handy "diagnostic"
mode where you can check the sensitivity of the sensors without sounding
the siren.  The installation is very important to having an effective alarm.
The sensors have to be mounted in the right positions in order to detect
tampering well.  They also have to be calibrated so that the alarm will not
sound off every time a truck drives by.  Living in NJ, I'm sure you hear the
false alarms day and night from cheap-shit alarms installed by losers.

I had my system installed by Rolling Tone in Upper Saddle River.  These guys
are not cheap!  Sometimes I think that they charge over suggested retail price.
However, I was impressed by there install talent.  They also give you an
informal "lifetime" guarantee beyond the manufacturers' warranty, ("If anything
goes wrong, just bring it in and we will take care of it.")  I also had RT
install the Alpine 8200 paging system.  I figured, there are so many false
alarms where I live (North Bergen), that nobody would pay attention to my
wailing siren.  The pager is cool.  It hooks on your belt.  If the alarm is
triggered, my pager beeps.  Then I can run out to the parking lot and watch the
thief drive away. :-)  My install was about $1K.  But if you just go with the
Derringer2 I think you'll get in under budget.  If you have any questions about
my experience, E-mail me.

shawn

From [e-mail] Wed Sep  2 18:55 EDT 1992
From: "David Nakayama" <[e-mail]>
          Subject:  Alarms
Rich,
I just got a VSE Derringer 2 installed for my new car.  Many of my friends
swore by that alarm and recommended it to me as well.  It pretty much comes
with all features you mentioned as standard for under $400 installed.  You can
add some other numerous goodies as well.  If you have factory power locks, the
Derringer 2 is connected to it at no additional cost.  But then again, $400.00
is nothing to sneeze at.

But I haven't had any problems with it, and the miniature 2 button remote is
very convenient.

... my two cents ...

-Dave
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Nakayama                                     [e-mail]
Research Engineer                                    [e-mail]
Systems Development Division
SRI International                                    fax:    [phone]
Menlo Park, CA                                       voice:  [phone]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

From [e-mail] Thu Sep  3 01:16 EDT 1992
From: Paul Forgey <[e-mail]>

The Avital alarm is not the most famous or trusted, but I got the
cyclone model for around $150, and it works great!  Just get the NON
PASSIVE ARMING!!!  It does not have zones, but it does have a mighty
sensitive adjustable shock sensor, no motion, though.  Features include
: door locks, parking light flash, remote, trunk and door sensors, shock
sensor, starter kill

[e-mail]

From: Edward Alexander Gianos <[e-mail]>

Rich,

I can understand your questions about different brands of car alarms.
quite the bummer, that 10 products seem to do exactly the same thing.

I just finished installing a fully-featured Excalibure AL-900GTX.  So,
I feel fairly competant on answering questions about alarms.

The most important aspect of an alarm system is :  THE INSTALL.  Let
me say that again:  THE INSTALL.

These little brain units are really fairly simple devices.  Just a few
inputs, control a few outputs, and have a RF receiver.  no problem.
Your shopping problems isn't that you are trying to find a good alarm
name, but rather that there are *many* excellent alarms.

My advice to you:  Buy an accepted name.  you know the names.  Buy on
features.  after all, these are really the only differences among them.
I like the neat gadgets.  (I installed power door locks in my Civic
so the alarm could use them...)  The more time you spend defining
exactly what you want your alarm to do, the better a decision you will
make.  Also, make sure the install is done right.  A great alarm installed
poorly will not protect your vehicle, and it will do funny things.  An
okay alarm installed correctly will do exactly what it is supposed to.

Good luck shopping, and let the net know what you decide.

Oh yeah, thing of alarms simply as state changing devices.  (input from
line 1, move to this state.....input from RF channel 2, do this...)
and make sure you've got all the necessary states covered.  I like
current sensing, power door lock control, power maze, TURN
CONFIRMATION CHIRP ON/OFF, passive arming, valet switch.

later,

ed gianos

From: [e-mail]

Rich,

  Regarding car alarms, I just had one installed in my car a few
weeks ago.  I got the same run around at various places.  I ended up
with an Alpine system (8040 if I remember correctly), which has all
the features you described.  I ended up with this unit since I own a
soft-top, and this unit sets up a some type of field both inside and
outside the car.  If anyone gets within about 3 feet of the car, and
moves around the car for more than 5 seconds, the car softly chirps
(not the full sound).  If you reach a hand inside the car, the alarm
goes off.

  Other manufactures have a similar feature as an add on, but the
Alpine unit is designed specifically for this.  I also added a code
alarm shock sensor (not standard with this unit).  The code alarm
unit was more easily adjustable than the Alpine unit, but I didn't
really see that much difference.  Total cost was $400, installed.  I
did not have the automatic door locks, however (manual locks!).  Hope
this helped.

Evan Williams

From: [e-mail]

Around here, you can get the top of the line Alpine, w/perimeter guard (for
t-tops, convertibles, etc.) installed for around $350.  The prices have
come down over the past couple of years.

S. Graham

From [e-mail] Thu Sep  3 15:12 EDT 1992

Greater Cleveland Area.  I believe it has all the bells and whistles.  I was going to go with the Clifford when I changed
my mind from t tops to a regular roof.
I ended up getting neither car, but the Clifford was a bit cheaper.  It also has there neat little magnetic shock sensor
which works no matter what angle the car is parked at.  It had the sensor disable feature, also.

S. Graham

From: Jeffrey Pau <[e-mail]>

Rich,

I have been using UNGO BOX alarm for a long time.  I personally like its reliability and
easy to install (I do all my own installations) and they are not that expensive and
comes with all the features you like to have (except the ability to lock out a sensor
if it is being continually tripped, I think! But why?).  I have installed them in my
old 320i, a VW GTI and my brand new 325i.  I have used the VSE Derringer/2 before, they
are good except more costly and more complicated to install and the shock sensor does
not work as well as an UNGO Box.   Fyi, I can even get you a new UNGO box with all those
features as you describes (yes, including automatic door locking/unlocking) for less
than $180.00.  Let me know if you have any questions or if you like me to get you one!

-Jeff

From: [e-mail] (Seth J. Golub)

We got a Clifford alarm for our Saturn and we're very pleased with it.
I believe it has all the features you mentioned, plus at least one more
I can think of:  The remote switch (the little button you put on your
keychain) has an extra button so you can program it to open your
garage door.  Obviously, this only works with the right kind of garage
door openers, but they're more than willing to sell you one.  :-)
But seriously, we've had no trouble with our Clifford and were
impressed with some of the features we would not have thought of.

Seth Golub
[e-mail]



From: "Jeff    Sync. Release  <[e-mail]>" <[e-mail]>

Rich,

If $350.00 include installations of all features: flashing parking lights,
ignition kill, hook and trunk switches, power door lock/unlock, etc., it
sounds like a fair price.  Ask them are they installation the top of the
line UNGO box (forgot the model #) and how much they charge just for the
alarm.  $180.00 here can get you the top of the line UNGO BOX and tax is
even included.  Usually a simple car alarm insllation starts with $100.00,
when special features are added (like ignition kill and power door lock, etc.)
they charge additional for those.  Other details you may want to consider,
ask them where they would place the brain (control unit) of the alarm
(I've seen shops placed them right underneath the carpet, scary!),
preferrably behind the center console where it's hard to get to (car thiefs);
ask them where they are going to mount the siren (wires of the siren
should be hidden and hard to get to (otherwise it can be cut easily);
you may also want to consider a backup battery for the alarm just in case
the battery cable is being disconnected!

I don't have the UNGO Box installation manual with me, I believe the door
locking can be done as you described.

Cheers,
Jeff

*******************************************************************************
  Jeffrey Pau                           Synchronized Release, UNIX SBU
  Email: [e-mail]           Oracle Corporation
  Tel: [phone]                 400 Oracle Parkway, box 659407
  Fax: [phone]                 Redwood Shores, CA 94065
*******************************************************************************



From: [e-mail] (Seth J. Golub)

We do have a shock sensor, but we haven't had any false alarms.
A friend of mine lives in Miami and complains of false alarms during
heavy rains (of which there are many).

From: [e-mail]

Viper is the system installed by Mercedes-Benz and Audi (at least on the
cars sold in this country).  The last time I took my car in for a service
(a Mercedes-Benz built before alarms were available as an option) there
was a leaflet advertising Viper on the passenger seat when I collected it.

Although the leaflet was put there by the dealer it says that it was
published by Mercedes-Benz UK who recommend these alarms.  They offered
a substantial discount on the list price - I could get Viper installed
by an official Mercedes-Benz agent cheaper than a car-dealer friend could
buy it at trade price; presumably Mercedes got a large discount for a
bulk purchase.

When the alarm is installed you get a choice (assuming that you have
central locking already) as to whether or not the remote control will
operate the door locks.  Although this is more convenient it is less
secure so I wouldn't recommend it.  What I'd prefer, although this option
isn't available, is that the remote control could lock but not unlock
the doors; you should need a key to get into the car.

A friend drives an Audi which had Viper installed during manufacture.  He
says that he has no problems with it and finds the remote control door
locks to be very useful.

I can't comment on the other alarms.

        Mark Lomas ([e-mail])

  Well, I once owned an Ungo Box and really liked it. My set up
was pretty basic and had door/trunk/hood entry detection and
motion detection. The thing I liked about the Ungo is its method
of detecting motion. They wrap a coil of wire around a glass vial
of mercury and run current through the coil. Any change in the
flux of the coil is then due to the mercury moving around inside
the vial. This method allows the motion sensitivity to be
adjusted very precisely - unlike my current alarm which has two
sensitivities: touch with a feather to activate or run over with
a tank to activate. The Ungo also provides a dash switch that allows
you to choose between two levels of motion sensitivity whenever
you want. The two levels are based on how sensitive you adjusted
the main unit (one less sensitive, one the same).

my opinion (for what it's worth),
-- Tim

P.S. I have no affiliation with Ungo Box whatsoever - just liked
     the product %\)

From: [e-mail] (Denis McKeon)

Quick response:

I'm not a locksmith, but on this group who is? :-) (yeah, ok, a few.)

You should shop for reasonably priced alarms at a large auto parts chain
store - I found that Pep Boys was the only local chain with clearly
marked prices, and they also had a good selection, do good
installations, and had a comparison chart in the store catalog.

Detailed response:

The alarm topic comes up on rec.motorcycles fairly often.  Other potential
newsgroups for info are rec.autos, rec.audio.car, and misc.consumers.

If any one can point to an on-line FAQ, or a detailed recent published
comparison of car alarms, please e-mail to me and I'll summarize the
pointers.  If there's no response on alt.locksmithing, I'll cross-post
a request.  If an FAQ doesn't already exist, I could help create one.

[and BTW, [e-mail] (Blaine Gardner) points to the July
1992 issue of Motorcyclist magazine for a comparison review of m/c alarms.]

I recently went through selecting an alarm - and jumped to a choice
because I felt that getting any decent alarm that fit my needs was more
important than getting the mystical "perfect" alarm.

Also, I believe that alarms/locks/whatever don't make a vehicle totally
secure - but all I want is a vehicle that is more secure than most of
the other vehicles in the area. (and let natural selection take action.)

An Audiovox TSP 700 was $170 plus $100 for installation (I could have done
it myself, but time is money and the alarm specialist at PB did a good job).

Half of the system cost was the paging function - since I live a few
hundred feet (out of sight) from where I park (on-street), and since my
car has been broken into both at my home and in a parking lot while I
was in a movie theater I felt that paging was useful for some situations.

Car alarms appear to be in the "how much do you want to pay?" category -
you can get a cheap siren-and-voltage-sensor for $40 - the kind that
just wails endlessly - or you can spend many hundreds on the TV-style
'smart car' system that senses motion *near* the car and talks to
passerby.  Around here, my neighbors would likely shoot either of those. :-)

If you have a car worth $50K, or money to burn, or just want to impress
yuppies on the cafe patio, then shop for car alarms at the high-tech
audio or high-performance car places.  Systems are probably a bit
cheaper at car dealers, but the systems you can buy at Walmart or Pep Boys
are probably enough for the rest of us.  At the very least your vehicle
will have more alarm than all the unalarmed cars out there.

Of course, the real budget setup is just a blinking dash-mounted LED and
some alarm company stickers (sold separately).  Bring your own chutzpah.

Another trick is having a slide-out radio - that you pull out of the
dash and put into the glovebox before you park the car.  Dumb, hunh?

A lot of people on the net seem to feel that appearances can deceive.
I used to believe that having an ugly old car would prevent theft.
If you want to depend on that theory, be my guest, I'm done with it.

The rest of this article is details and discussion, this is a good
time to quit if you don't like long articles.



The Pep Boys comparison chart covered 10 models of Audiovox, Whistler,
and Code-Alarm - ranging from $40 to $170.  Features included:

    count    feature
        9    siren
        8    automatic siren shutdown
        8    2 remote transmitters
        8    remote panic

        8    adjustable shock sensor
        8    voltage sensing
        3    glass breakage detector
        1    motion detector

        8    audible arm/disarm
        6    LED warning
        6    valet switch
        3    starter disable
        2    4 watt pager
        1    silent paging
        1    portable/no-installation

I'm not going to re-create the chart because if you have a Pep Boys in
the neighborhood you can get one yourself, and if you don't you'll have
to roll your own comparison anyway.  If no FAQ exists I'll do a chart.

>The few that were recommended are:
>
>Ungo Box
>VSE Derringer/2
>Viper
>Clifford Intelligaurd 200

I believe these are medium-to-high price systems.

>The features I'm looking for are: Switch protection for Hood, Trunk,
>and doors, ignition kill, remote arm/disarm, sensor "zones" (Where,
>for example, if you have a christmas tree in your trunk and you can't
>shut it, the alarm will still arm and protect the rest of the car),
>a passive or active option and some sort of shock or shatter sensor
>for window breakage and body shock (like jacking up to steal tires,
>etc.).  This sensor should be easily adjustable to avoid false
>alarms by big trucks passing by, thunder, wind and low flying
>aircraft.  I have read about some alarms having the smarts to
>disable a sensor after being tripped a certain number of times. That
>is not super important but would be nice.

No info on zones or smart auto-disable, but here are
some comments on features and capabilities:

general

    The cheaper the system, the less you are able to adjust and tune.
    At the very least, motion and shock sensors should be adjustable
    to minimize false alarms.

siren/automatic siren shutdown

    60 seconds of siren is probably just as effective at
    attracting attention as any longer period, and it sure
    helps keep the neighbors happy (timed sirens are also
    becoming mandatory in some large cities.)

2 remote transmitters

    For remote arm/disarm - second as a spare, or for spouse.
    A black box for your keychain - 2" x 1.25" x 0.5" (5cm x 3cm x 1.3cm)

remote panic

    An easy add-on to the remote circuitry - helps you find your
    car at the mall, and probably more of a self-confidence
    booster than a really useful personal security gadget -
    how many people would react to a car alarm by looking
    around for hundreds of yards for an assault in progress?

Sensors

    Sensors are a big variable - the trade-off points are cost of
    sensor, costs of installation, minimum false alarms, and maximum
    true alarms.  Using a few sensors is probably best - you can cover
    several break-in methods with lower sensitivity settings on each.

pin switches

    Existing dome light switches are usually used for doors, and similar
    pin switches for hood & trunk.  Recall that a major installation
    issue is placing all the parts of the alarm system in areas of the
    vehicle that are secured by the alarm. (To restate the obvious.)

adjustable shock sensor

    Triggered by sharp transients in the frame and body of the vehicle.
    Would detect glass breakage by the shock of the force used to break
    the glass.  Would probably not notice glass breakage by the trick
    with a spring-loaded center-punch I posted on rec.auto last month
    for claustrophobic recent Camry owners.  Whoops. (Until the door opens).

    Instructions with mine say to adjust so that two successive sharp
    slaps with both hands at once at the back bumper of the car trigger
    the sensor.  Also says to mount to firewall or solid equivalent, not
    to fender well or other easily flexible part (would insulate from shock).

ultrasonic sensor

    Emits ultrasonic signals & checks returns - detects masses
    (like people) in a volume of space (like the front seat).
    Would handle securing the passenger space of a convertible.

voltage sensing

    Senses drop in voltage caused by current drain.  Requires bypass
    for electric radiator fans that can come on while car is parked.

motion detector

    A variation on the classic mercury switch - at least one mfg has one
    that is a tube of mercury surrounded by a coil - senses motion, not
    contact - and said to be very adjustable.

    Good for preventing jacking up, alloy wheel theft, towing, etc.

glass breakage detector

    I don't have specific info - could be glass mounted sensor,
    or could sense high frequencies of breaking glass.  Anybody?

audible arm/disarm

    Makes that annoying chirp you hear more and more often these days.
    I would prefer visual - but audible tells you that the siren works.

LED warning

    LED blinks on dash when system is armed.  Be sure it is visible
    from the curb side - perhaps place atop dash, or near radio?

valet switch

    Allows parking attendant to do job without fanfare.
    If they don't put your vehicle in a continuously attended lot,
    why pay for the risk without the service?

starter disable

    If system is triggered, cuts power to starter relay until system is
    disarmed.

4 watt pager

    Probably not worth it if you have a garage, or rarely park in risky
    areas/situations - unless you want to be able to go see what all the
    fuss is about while there's still some fuss.  You don't have to arm
    and carry the beeper all the time, so you have a choice of level of
    response to a break-in: "make noise" or "make noise & come a-running".

    In the Audiovox, the paging sensor/sender/beeper sub-system is
    clearly an add-on - in fact, you can buy it separately.  The paging
    sensor glues to the siren & senses vibration from the siren
    (which means there is no stock way to have silent paging - boo!)

    The paging sender mounts near the car antenna and uses it to send
    a signal to the beeper (and if you have auto-retracting antennas,
    it will also erect the antenna while paging you).

    I haven't made an exhaustive study of the range - which would vary
    depending on what is in the way - probably okay for the movies & the
    mall, not for half-way across a university campus.  At worst should
    answer the question: "Hey, is that MY car making that awful noise?"

    The beeper is similar in size to a motorola digital beeper -
    3" x 2" x 3/4" (7.5cm x 5xm x 2cm) plus a belt clip.  I wish
    they had built an arm/disarm circuit into the beeper - it is
    a bit of a hassle to carry around 2 little black boxes.

silent paging

    Pages you without siren or alarm.  I'd wish for silent paging
    on the first trigger, and siren on the second trigger, or if
    not disarmed for 30 seconds or so after the first trigger.

door-lock interface

    Unlocks electric door-locks upon disarm, which seems like a nice
    convenience, but might be a bad idea in an assault situation.

portable/no-installation

    At least one system plugs into the cigarette lighter,
    and uses an ultrasonic detector (among others).

manual over-ride (disarm) switch

    If you loose your arm/disarm transmitter, you can unlock,
    enter, and disarm the (sounding) alarm.  Should be hidden.

I'm sure that people will follow-up about any features I've missed.
(exterior arm/dis-arm locks; 'bait' trigger switches that appear to be
dis-arm overrides but actually trigger the system; hidden dis-arm or
start methods with magnets & reed switches, or switches in series, or
overloaded functions for normal switches) [gosh - starts to sound like Ada].

Also note that systems seem to vary a lot in the small details,
and you could add a lot to a system in a do-it-yourself installation.

Summary (all IMHO):

    No alarm (or any theft deterrent) provides total security.

    Any effective alarm is better than none.
    Any in-effective alarm is worse than none.
    (over or under sensitive, so much hassle that you don't use it, etc.)

    Consider how much your time and energy is worth.
    Consider what your insurance deductibles are.

    Consider the costs of pursuing an insurance claim, of replacing
    stolen items (or car), of repair of entry and dash damage and
    under-dash wiring damage after a midnight radio-ectomy, loss
    of other items, and your reaction to an invasion of your privacy.

    Figure out how much some increased security is worth to you, and
    comparison shop.

--
Denis  McKeon                            Good.   Fast.   Cheap.
[e-mail]                       Pick two.



Date: Sat, 5 Sep 92 16:37:38 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Erick Dyke)
To: [e-mail] (Richard Holowczak)
Subject: Re: Car Alarms. Advice Needed

Try an Ungo box 5100.  Good stuff, US made, I own two.

Any questions, feel free to ask.

--
-------
Erick S. Dyke -- GE Simulation & Control Systems -- Daytona Beach, FL
EMail : [e-mail]
"GE Aerospace -- We make the BEST video games in the world"

From [e-mail] Sat Sep  5 16:53 EDT 1992

I have two 5100s.  You can tell they are the 5100 by the fact that the
remote has only one button.

My first one cost $400 installed with door, trunk and hood pins, ignition kill,
2 remotes, the Ungo patented shock sensor, and a space sensor (It is in
a convertable) and unlocks the doors.

The second cost $417 with door, trunk and hood pins, ignition kill,
2 remotes, the Ungo patented shock sensor, and a sound sensor.  It took a lot
longer to install since it is in a 25th Aniv. Cougar (Lots of leather trim
and stuff.)  They also wired it to the keypad for the keyless entry so if
someone pushes a button it goes off.

Did you get a quote for adding a pager?  My usually cheap shop wants about
$210 per car for the Ungo box pager.  Just wondering so I can try a work
the price here.

-------
Erick S. Dyke -- GE Simulation & Control Systems -- Daytona Beach, FL
EMail : [e-mail]
"GE Aerospace -- We make the BEST video games in the world"


From: [e-mail] (Vincent Lee)
To: [e-mail] (Richard Holowczak)
Subject: Re: Car Alarms: Help needed!
>
> Place 1:     "The Ungo Box Alarm is the best on the market. I don't
>                  sell any others because I have had nothing but problems
>                  with all other brands."
>
> Place 2:     "The Ungo Box is terrible. We used to sell them but we had
>                  so many problems with them we stopped. The VSE Derringer/2
>                  is the model you want. We also sell the Viper but it is
>                  not as good as the VSE."
>
> Place 3:     "Given a choice between Ungo Box and VSE I would choose
>                  Clifford Intelligaurd 200. It is the best on the market.
>                  Ask anyone."
>
> Place 4:     "The Clifford alarm used to be the best but now they have
>                  dropped down in quality. The Viper alarm is the one you want.
>                  It does the job and we have had no problems with them at all."
>
> Place 5:     Actually a magazine article about 1 year old says: "The
>                 VSE is our choise . . . "
>
> I am looking for something with door and trunk switches, starter kill,
> shock sensor (reliable) for broken glass and possibly motion sensor if
> the shock sensor is not tripped by jacking up the car. I would also like
> to have an intelligent alarm reset and the ability to lock out a sensor
> if it is being continually tripped.  Zones I think they're called.
> If I have any pennies
>
>Well, it's a good thing you are posting now. I bought the Ungo 5200. It's
a good alarm. most of the alarms you are looking at are good. I personally
like the Derringer. The Viper is nice but I don't like the remote. The
derringer is good because it has a loud siren. It's got glass sensor standard
and it's got other features the UNGO doesn't have like silent arm
The Viper can do that as well. If it were me get the Derringer. I like it.
Of course it's your personal preference. All of the modules are expandanble
for door, glass, etc. I put an Autopage on my alarml. That I think is an
essential component of the alarm. You need it.

Date: Fri, 25 Sep 92 13:02:51 -0700
From: [e-mail] (Vincent Lee)
To: [e-mail] (Richard Holowczak)
Subject: Re: Car Alarms: Help needed!
>
> Place 1:     "The Ungo Box Alarm is the best on the market. I don't
>                  sell any others because I have had nothing but problems
>                  with all other brands."
>
> Place 2:     "The Ungo Box is terrible. We used to sell them but we had
>                  so many problems with them we stopped. The VSE Derringer/2
>                  is the model you want. We also sell the Viper but it is
>                  not as good as the VSE."
>
> Place 3:     "Given a choice between Ungo Box and VSE I would choose
>                  Clifford Intelligaurd 200. It is the best on the market.
>                  Ask anyone."
>
> Place 4:     "The Clifford alarm used to be the best but now they have
>                  dropped down in quality. The Viper alarm is the one you want.
>                  It does the job and we have had no problems with them at all."
>
> Place 5:     Actually a magazine article about 1 year old says: "The
>                 VSE is our choise . . . "
>
Well, I've just read the mail from a gentlemen who told you to install the
Viper or Hornet. these are all agood alarms that you are looking at. I have
an UNGO 5200 in my integra. However, when I was looking at alarms I was
lookig at price as well. I installed mine for $239. That was the best deal
and still is but it was done as a favor for me. If I'd do it all over again
I'd get the Derringer or the Viper. I like the viper for several reasons:
It's silent arm, distinctive siren, light flashing etc. I don't like the
remote. It feels and looks cheap. One of the things I like about my ungo is
the remote. Very ergonomically designed. The Derringer I feel is the best
of the lot. Get it if you can afford it. All these alarms have shock,
motion, and starter kill. The Derringer gives you glass sensor standard.
This is a good feature because a thief can overirde the alarm by drilling or
prying into the glass without shatterring it so he sets off the shock
sensor. This is a good feature because the glass sensor will pick up the
sound of metal against the window automatically. The Derringer I feel is
more adavanced than the other ones. It's got great expandability, some of
the shit you waon't need but if you want it you can do it. What I liked
abut it was that it tells you what zones wer tripped if the car was
tampered or not. Great feature. The siren is real loud as well. The only
problem I've heard is the problem with the remote. It's too small. An auto
installer told me that he stopped carrying Derringers because when he was
installing 3 derringers in hsi shop the remotes wouldn't work because each
one would interfere with each other. Sio I hope this helped , my suggestion
is get the Derringer. Spend the extra money you'll be happy with it. But if
you can afford the Viper or the UNGO get those. They are excellent units as
well. One thing. When you do get the alarm get an Autopage as well. It's a
small pager that let's you know if the alarm was tripped. Remember nobody
cares about your car except you.


From: [e-mail] (Ryan Nakamura)
Subject: Car Alarm Suggestions (Summary)
Date: 28 Oct 92 20:05:25 GMT

My apologies to those who have been waiting...
Here are some of the replies I got to my original
article:


~From: [e-mail] (Vincent Lee)
To: [e-mail] (Ryan Nakamura)
Cc: [e-mail]
~Subject: Re: Car Alarm Suggestions
~References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: sstaff
Status: RO

In article <[e-mail]>, you wrote:
>
Well if you were here a month ago we had a huge discussion about this
stuff. Put simply, go for the derringer. It's a great alarm. I like it.
Ask me specifc questions though because I don't want to delve into anything
that you may or may not know.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

~Date: Wed, 21 Oct 92 13:18:06 -0400
~From: Richard Holowczak <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
~Subject: Car Alarms
Status: RO

Ryan:
I just went through the same thing you are about 2 months ago. I finally
decided on the Viper system.  Not entirely due to the features but because
of the installation and service I recieve(d).  I can take my car back at
any time for free adjustments; no appointment necessary.  My dash developed
a rattle about 2 weeks ago. I don't know if it was from the install or not
but they literally dropped what they were doing and fixed it. I was impressed.

Anyway, I summarized my story and also wrote up a long list of questions to
ask a dealer before you get an install done. If you'd like, I can mail them
to you.

BTW, one Viper feature which was the clincher is the silent/noisy arm and
disarm function. My neighbors don't have to put up with all that racket
when I'm arming/disarming the system. The Derringer/2 can only do this
at installation time.  It's either noisy or not.

Let me know if you have any other specific questions about the Viper and/or
the Derringer.


Rich H.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

~Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 14:47:04 HST
~From: Ted Koseki  <[e-mail]>
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
~Subject: Re: Car Alarm Suggestions
~Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
In-Reply-To: <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of Hawaii
Cc:
Status: RO

In article <[e-mail]> you write:
>
>     Seeing that my little Autopage RF/06 is getting a little
>old (3 years), and the investment it's supposed to protect
>has gotten ridiculously large, I think it's time for a new
>alarm.  I've been looking at several high(er) end alarms
>and was wondering if anyone could give me suggestions/
>recommendations/comments on the following alarms:
>
>     Clifford IntelliGuard 600/400
>     Alpine 8070
>     Derringer2
>     Viper (I've never liked this alarm, but I'd be interested
>            in hearing about it)

(hehehe)  Funny, I've got an Autopage RF/07 and will SOON be running
an Alpine combination of the 8040 and 8200 two-channel paging unit.
The 8070 is a real nice unit.  I've got a few friends who have this unit
in their cars.  So far none of them have falsed.  The one time that one
of them did false was because his battery was dying.  Alpine builds
in a sort of low-battery indicator.  The siren will sound when your
car battery dips down below a certain voltage.  The Cliffords have a good
rep, and I know of one install; he didn't have any falses also.  Stay
away from the D2 because it has a low number of transmitter combinations.
The max amount is 4092, and is set by 12 DIP switches.  Of the 4 known
car thefts to my knowledge, all 4 were running the original Derringers
or the D2.  Most likely they were scanned to disarm the alarm system.
The Viper I would stay away from also.  I know of numerous installs
and they either did not protect the vehicle on a break-in or falsed
a lot.  Direct Electronics (parent company for Viper alarms) has done
a marvelous job advertising for the alarm, and apparently it has
increased sales.  The only pluses for the Viper systems is that the
shops (at least Progressive in Kaneohe) give you a lifetime guarantee,
and they give you a generous insurance payoff ($1000 or $2000, I think).
Out of the list you have indicated, I would recommend the Alpine unit
because out of my experiences and installs I have come across with, they
have the best "track" record.  Also, you won't have to worry about
your alarm being scanned, as with the D2s, because the Alpine has
around 5,000 trillion combinations, almost impossible to break.  On
top of that, they do have an anti-scanning circuit.  If you get it
professionally done, you'll probably pay about $500-$600 depending on
the shop.  Adding options will, of course, increase the price.  Try
to get the 8070L with the 8401 four-button transmitter that is used
as standard equipment for the 8080.  Nice transmitter with a nice
LCD display and other neat stuff like a parking meter coundown timer...


>I really wanted an Alpine 8040, but I have titanium tint on my
>car (oh no, tint!) and I've been told the outer field can't
>penetrate metallic tints...

I just installed an 8040 in a '92 Saturn.  The alarm is not fine
tuned yet, but it should be by this weekend.  So far, the field
does go through the metallic tints, because the Saturn does have
35% titanium tint on it.  We'll see if the unit does work
correctly or if it falses.  Auto Audio has warned me that their
installs have been coming back because of a lot of falsing.  They
mentioned something about excessive heat causing the unit to
false.  The only problem so far is that the siren died a day after the
install.  I'm going to troubleshoot on what happened this Saturday
and can give you a follow-up afterwards...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

That's about it!  Special thanks to Ted Koseki who pointed out
a few shops in my area.

-Ryan
[e-mail]



============================== MORE COMMENTS ==========================

Date: Sun, 27 Sep 92 23:13:08 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Robert Lau)
To: [e-mail]
In-Reply-To: Richard Holowczak's message of Sun, 27 Sep 92 17:20:57 -0400 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: My Alarm system
Status: R

What I was saying is that you didn't gain much by not having the alarm
unlock the doors for you when you disarmed it.  If a thief disarmed your
alarm by scanning for the code, s/he would not hesitate to break your
window to gain entry since the ignition is no longer disabled since your
alarm was disarmed 'normally' as far as the alarm is concerned...

True, a professionally installed alarm system is prohibitively expensive.
And adding stuff like auto-sunroof-close, etc are luxuries most people
cannot afford.  I want to see more people installing alarms themselves
*after* they've learned how to do so correctly.  Why they have to fuse
relay leads, etc.  This way they can use the $150-$500 that would have went
into installation cost on accessories instead.  You can't make a car 100%
steal proof, but you can force them to use a flatbed truck...

It wasn't a flame and I'm sorry if it sounded like one.  It's just that
people who know little about alarms but are in the market for on are going
to read your post and think that their car is an impenetrable fortress if
they've got a simple alarm.  Like the cheezy Viper alarm commercials on TV,
where this thief gets scared off by this cartoon snake inside the car he's
trying to break into.  Oh, protected by Viper!  Dream on...

-robert


Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 12:15:28 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Robert Lau)
To: [e-mail]
In-Reply-To: Richard Holowczak's message of Mon, 28 Sep 92 09:30:13 -0400 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: My Alarm system
Status: R

I used to be an active r.a.c. contributor but I've been extremely busy
lately, quote me all you want :)

Practically everything designed before 1990 is scannable.  Newer systems
either incorporate anti-scanning circuitry (if they detect successive code
attempts, they'll ignore all input for a given amount of time), or they
support so many codes that brute-force scanning is impractical.  Building a
scanner for Viper, Excalibur, cheaper Clifford, Derringer, etc systems is
trivial.  And since so many people have these alarms, s/he'll probably hit
several cars in a parking structure...

I don't know how many people have figured out how to listen for codes, it's
really not that difficult..  The only way to prevent this is to have a
non-RF remote.  There are some OEM (I think) alarms that use IR instead.
These are line-of-sight only and have a relatively short range, 25' or so.

-robert



To: [e-mail] (Richard Holowczak)
Subject: Re: CAR ALARMS: My Story/FAQ
From: [e-mail] (System Administration)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 92 09:29:44 PDT
[e-mail] (Richard Holowczak) writes:


>>>>Everything deleted because you know what you wrote.

I'm an authorized Alpine dealer, and was kinda surprised at the 1k figure
you quoted,  Granted, the 8080 is not cheap, you should have been able to
keep it under 1000 bucks.  It's my best guess the dealer you saw it at
was tagging on extra sensors you may not have needed.

At any rate, as for features, I like Alpine, and I find Code Alarm is
also a pretty tough unit.

I thought I'd drop you a line incase anyone had any questions about
alpine or code alarm, as I have the full technical documentation on the
entire lines, and I can pass gripes and suggestions directly along to the
manufactures.


        -=-  -=-  System Administrator   [e-mail]  -=-  -=-
                         Hale Telecommunications Inc.
                            San Diego, California


Subject: Car Alarms :-)
To: [e-mail]
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 10:56:43 SAT
From: Bruce <[e-mail]>
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Status: R

Hi,

I was just browsing through some newsgroups and read your interesting
FAQ about car alarms.

One thing that did make me smile was your statement right at the end
that you didn't know what else to do to make your car less stealable.

I have a suggestion.... Get a car that looks so old and decrepid that
any person in their right mind would die before stealing it. :-) :-)

About 3 years ago I bought my first car (finished national service -
starting University...) a 1973 Mini. Actually it's in good condition
considering what I paid for it - which was not much.

About a year later the car was broken into for the first time -
I actually had the nerve to park it all by itself in the middle of a
harbour parking lot in a way-scummy area, and leave it there all day
only retrieving it after it got dark (I was busy rock climbing)
Stupid heh ?

Well anyway someone broke the window to get in - left the radio
mounted on the dash (we are talking a seriously low end radio here )
and stole another one that was sitting behind my seat on the floor
(and was broken).

Since then - nothing. Not even when the car sat unlocked , with the
keys in the ignition for the whole weekend (completely by accident).

Says a lot for the power of a backseat piled high with junk and
rubbish :-) :-) :-)

Cheers
Bruce
[e-mail]




Date: Wed, 30 Sep 92 18:00:06 -0700
From: John Schubert <[e-mail]>
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: CAR ALARMS/the big Q-LIST

I don't know if you're interested, but I answered the questions for a Code
Alarm  (I'll have to send you the model, I think it's a NightHawk...)

)     Include ignition kill when alarm is armed (also called Starter
      disable or Starter Kill)? YES

)     Include Glass breakage sensor?

)     Can the glass breakage sensor also be triggered by glass
      cutting?

)     Include a seat pressure sensor?

)     Include a high quality adjustable motion sensor (if not very
      adjustable then forget it) ?

)     Include a "dual sensitivity" switch for the motion detector
      (as with the Ungo box)?

)     Include a switch to de-activate just the motion sensor?

)     Include a shock sensor? YES

)     Is the shock sensor user adjustable? YES

)     Can the shock sensor be shut off or disabled? you can unplug it...

)     Include a "field" sensor to sense moving objects? (Some Alpine
      systems)

)     Is this field sensor an "add-on" or is the alarm specifically
      designed for this type of sensor? (Some alpine systems)

)     What is the quality of this field sensor?  Is it prone to
      false alarms (e.g. rain, dogs, cats, other cars, passers by)?

)     Is the field sensor user adjustable for distance and time
      spans?

)     Include a current sensor?

)     Does the alarm have a "silent" testing mode so I can test the
      sensors, etc. (like the Derringer/2) ?

)     Can the alarm be switched between active or passive arming
      (active arming only if not) every time the alarm is armed?

)     Are there multiple zones?  (i.e. All doors = zone1,
      trunk = zone2,  Hood = zone3 . . .) YES

)     Does each zone have lock out capability when armed (i.e. if I
      leave the trunk open, will the rest of the sensors still
      activate)? YES

)     Main unit "brain" mounted inside the dash board behind the
      center column or inside the dashboard.  Your choice, but it's not
               weather-proof...

)     Two sirens, one placed in an inaccessible location under the
      hood.  option

)     Can you install an internal alarm to sound *inside* the car?
      (Thanks again to R. L.)  option

)     Is all wiring well hidden. No exposed wires at all, especially
      to sirens and batteries?  for all alarms: How good is the installer??

)     Is there a remote "Panic" mode or at least some type of
      "finder" mode?  YES

)     Are there relay outputs for automatic door locks when armed?  YES

)     Is there a switch for silent (lights flash only) or audible
      chirp when arming (like the Viper)? jumper

)     Back-up battery which powers both alarm and siren (How is it
      wired? In series? parallel? re-chargeable?

)     Are there 2 separate fused power inputs to avoid disabling the
      alarm by shorting out?

)     Are the power inputs isolated and fused close to the battery
      to avoid shorting out?

)     Include 2 small remote control transmitter units with decent
      range and long battery life?  YES

)     What type of battery?  Where can I get them?

)     Does the transmitter have good range?  YES

)     Do you have to be in line of sight to arm/disarm? Applies to all in the
                 300 Mhz range....

)     Does the transmitter stop transmitting after 1 second to avoid
      draining the transmitter battery?  unknown

)     Is it difficult to press down the buttons accidentally? YES

)     How many codes can the transmitter use?  Is it easily
      scannable?

)     Does the main unit contain anti-scanning circuitry?  YES

)     Include a valet switch? YES

)     Can a paging feature can be added at a later time?

)     Does the pager use an additional output?

)     Does the dome light inside the car come on when the alarm is
      disarmed (Like the Derringer/2) ?  YES

)     What is your (alarm dealer's) policy for repairs (if the car
      is broken in to and the alarm is damaged)?

)     What is your policy for sensor and adjustments?

)     What is your policy for alarm maintenance (i.e. check wires,
      batteries, etc.) ?
----------



******************************************************************************
*   John Schubert;  Hewlett Packard, ISD    |  The opinions contained herein *
*                   Sunnyvale, California   |  are my own, because nobody    *
*   INTERNET:   [e-mail]          |  else wants them...            *
*   CompuServe: >INTERNET:[e-mail]|                                *
*   HPDESK:     HP2200/40                   | "Ban low performance drivers,  *
*                                           |  not high performance cars."   *
******************************************************************************

From: [e-mail] (Teng-Kean Siew)
Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
Subject: car alarms info
To: [e-mail]
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 12:08:53 SST
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Status: R

Hi Richard,

I looked over the past months' rec.audio.car postings and found your car alarm
info very useful. I am now in the market for an alarm, and am wondering if you
could email me the collection of messages you got from others about car alarms.
In particular I am looking at the following alarms:

1. Avital Champion
2. Clifford System 3
3. Alpine 8040
4. Crimestopper 9204

I was going to put in a Crimestopper 9204 until some friend told me they are
fraught with problems, so now I am looking for info. Do you know the prices of
the above alarms (with installation)?  I am always having this feeling that I
will be ripped off by the dealers. Thanks.

Teng-Kean
--
Teng-Kean Siew                   Dept. of Information Systems & Computer Science
siewtk@@iscs.nus.sg              National University of Singapore
[e-mail]              Lower Kent Ridge Road, Singapore 0511.

Subject: Re:  car alarms info
To: [e-mail] (Richard Holowczak)
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 92 9:37:20 SST

Hi Rich

>IMHO, the Alpine is the premier system if you can afford it.
>
>Did you get a copy of the questions to ask car dealers? I can send that
>to you.  I'll put together the initial responses I got and e-mail them
>to you.
>
Thanks for taking the time to send me the info. I have also got your posting on
the questions. Here in Singapore, cars are so
expensive (would you pay US$70K for a Honda Accord?) that alarms are a
worthwhile investment. Unfortunately, they are also priced that way!

I am thinking of the Alpine 8040, but some poster said that it gives problems
in the heat, which is what we have every day here. Since Viper got good vibes
from your article (now that sounded terrible didn't?) I should also check it
out. But don't you have problems with the remote, especially the small
plastic piece with the hole to which the key chain attaches? It looks like
it will break any moment.

Teng-Kean
--
Teng-Kean Siew                   Dept. of Information Systems & Computer Science
siewtk@@iscs.nus.sg              National University of Singapore
[e-mail]              Lower Kent Ridge Road, Singapore 0511.

Subject: Car alarms FAQ survey
To: [e-mail]
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1992 04:02:43 -0500 (CDT)

Hi Rich,

I read your FAQ and am interested in getting a copy of your worksheet
of questions for installers. I am ready to make the second trip back
to the dealers who survived my first cut, and feel that would make a
good tool to weed out the questionable installers.

Thanks in advance for writing up all your research. It has certainly
aided in my search for an alarm system for my new 1992 Acura Integra.
Yanking out the sound system and replacing it with a CD player and
decent speakers was easy compared to alarm shopping. Since this will
be my first auto alarm system, I feel like a "babe in the woods" not
knowing all of the "gotchas". You can only glean so much information
from Consumer Reports and such.

Regards,

Judy

--
Judy Scheltema                |                       [e-mail]
P. O. Box 270249             |                          uhnix1!lobster!judy
Houston, Texas 77277-0249     |


Subject: Re: Car alarms FAQ survey
To: [e-mail] (Richard Holowczak)
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1992 20:24:57 -0500 (CDT)
From: Judy Scheltema <[e-mail]>
Hi Rich,

> I'll send the questions in the next mail message.

Thanks!

> You mentioned Consumer
> Reports.  Do you know of any issues where they talk about alarms? I don't get
> the magazine but someone told me they thought they saw an article a while
> back.

I was referring to the 1992-93 Consumer Reports New Car Buying Guide.
It was copyrighted in 1992 with a first printing of July 1992. They
have a chapter on auto alarms.

> I don't know what your budget is for your alarm, but many people have offered
> further suggestions including the following:

I'm looking at around $300 for the alarm system plus another $125 for
tinting.

>       Install an *Internal* siren in the car.  This should keep the theif
>       from staying in the car for too long.  The nice thing is, if you trigger
>       your alarm by accident, you can always disarm it before you get in and
>       save your ears some abuse.

This makes sense. I haven't seen any comments about that though.

>       I also got many responses on the Glass Breakage sensor. It seems that
>       some better quality sensors can also detect glass cutting.  The
>       splitting of the glass produces high enough frequencies to trigger
>       the sensor.

Sounds like another question to ask. No one mentioned anything like this.

> Another nice thing to do, which I forgot to mention in the posting, is write
> down all of the situations you put yourself and your car in. Then write down
> how you would like the alarm to react.  For example, some cheaper alarms
> will passively arm themselves 30 seconds after the car is turned off. This is
> kind of a pain when you're getting gas and your alarm arms itself. Also,

The one I'm looking at primarily is the Clifford Super IPS II. It has a
valet mode for servicing the car.

> be considerate of others where you park.  My neighbors would have driven me
> out by now had I not gotten the "silent" arming feature of the Viper system.
> Too many "Bleeps" and such can get quite annoying. Try to get your

This one has the option to silently arm/disarm the system.

> dealers to show you an installed system and note how everything works. You
> should have seen the look on one dealer's face as I walked across the parking l
> lot with his remote to check the range!  Do these things and they will know
> you are not some sucker.

I can just imagine! ;-)

> One final thing: Ask for and try to follow up on references and when you

I got a unasked reference for the company I'm considering from one of my
bosses. So I had that info before I ever set foot in the door. I did find
some that made me feel uncomfortable, so those are definitely out.

> drop your car off for installation, take out all of your insurance and registration
> papers and anything else that might tell some punk installer kid where you
> live. Also only leave your car key, not your house keys. I think I mentioned

Good advise.

> in the posting about the dealer who followed you home and stole your car
> a week after you paid $500 for an alarm.

I can believe it.

> Good luck hunting and write back if you have any other questions.

Thank you very much and if I come up with anything new for your list
or any other questions.

Regards,

Judy

--
Judy Scheltema                |                       [e-mail]
P. O. Box 270249             |                          uhnix1!lobster!judy
Houston, Texas 77277-0249     |


To: [e-mail] (Richard Holowczak)
Subject: Re: CAR ALARM FAQ (I think)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
Organization: Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs NY

I've seen your comments on car alarms a few times on rec.audio.car and
havn't really read it through thoroughly as of yet... I will when I
get a chance though.  Just one comment on it for the next time you
post it...
You mentioned that the problem with current sensing was that the fan
will set it off... well, not really.  Every current sensor I've seen
DOES have a bypass for the fan circuit and it is easy to do on any
vehicle.  I do concur however that current sensors suck... different
reasoning though.  Suppose your car breaks down and you have to leave
it on the side of the road... presumable with the hazzards on.  Well,
of course, cars only break down in awful neighborhoods where you will
certainly want to arm the alarm while you're gone.  About 10 seconds
after you arm the system with a current sensor, the alarm will go off.
Major bummer!

Best was to secure the doors is always via stock pin circuit (which
trips the dome light anyway).

Nice job on a thorough text though!

                               - Jason

--
---------------------------------------------------------------
\ Jason A. Reiser  \ Send E-Mail to [e-mail] \
 \ Skidmore College \ Saratoga Springs, NY 12866 \ 518-581-6580 \
  \ It's a new Ice Age!  Hooray!!  Sled City!  - Calvin & Hobbes \
   ---------------------------------------------------------------


=========================================================================
The following mail is from Jim Frost.  I have incorporated his experience
with the Lo-Jack system in to the FAQ.  Many thenks Jim.


Date: Fri, 6 Nov 92 11:48:47 EST
From: [e-mail]
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: CAR ALARM FAQ (or a good start)

In rec.autos you write:
>I think I have enough options covered here to justify a FAQ.

Pretty good, although I have some comments on things you didn't cover
or which were not completely correct.

>Motion sensor
>-------------
>Some alarms like the UNGO box and others have a motion sensor.  In
>the UNGO Box's case, it is a tube filled with mercury surrounded by
>a wire coil.  When the car moves, the mercury moves within the tube
>causing current to flow in the coil.  This is what sets the alarm
>off.  Other have some type of spring with a weight on it so when
>the car moves, the weight bobbles back and forth and makes contact
>with the casing causing the circuit to be completed.  The former
>method has a patent, the latter has no patent because it is
>worthless.  If you have ever heard a parking lot full of alarms
>going off at an airport or a parking deck, it is because of this
>type of sensor.  These are prone to false alarms from passing
>trucks, thunder, airplanes, etc.

Mercury switches are highly prone to error, particularly because
they're also thermal switches.  This is why a lot of alarms go off for
no apparent reason during the summer -- if the switch is inside the
car and the car is parked in the sun....

I haven't seen a motion sensor I'd trust and deliberately avoided
alarms with them.

More in a minute.

>Glass breakage sensor
>---------------------
>What this is supposed to do is pick up on the particular high
>frequencies of glass being broken or cut and to trigger the alarm.
>It is basically a microphone placed somewhere inside the car. This
>is standard on the Derringer and an option on most other systems
>like the UNGO, Alpine and Viper. I have heard that as a car ages,
>the creaks and squeaks from plastic panels shifting and other car
>noises can also set off the glass sensor.  I don't know how true
>this is but I did not get a glass breakage sensor installed.
>Many people have written to me that this is THE most important
>sensor for a car alarm.  Not only can it detect glass breaking, but
>also glass cutting on some better sensors.  For me, this is a toss
>up.

Glass breakage sensors are another major cause of false alarms.  They
cannot determine the difference between some types of sounds and a
break.  You mention that some types of motion sensors are prone to
alarms from trucks, thunder, etc.  Glass breakage sensors are usually
prone to these things (in fact you're the first person I've heard say
that some motion sensors are).  They can also be fooled easily; rap a
quarter against the window of a car with a breakage sensor and it'll
set the alarm off.  That was a common prank when I was in college.

>Insurance
>---------
>Most insurance companies offer a percentage discount on your
>premium if you install an alarm.

In MA the state sets the rates and they can go up as high as 35%
savings on your comprehensive for alarms with recovery features.  The
rate depends on the type of alarm installed.

>Other hints
>-----------
>Aside from the alarm, I also got a set of wheel locks and a
>steering wheel locking bar (The Club).  Now all of you locksmiths
>can now tell me how easy it is to defeat these! :)

It's worse than that.  The Club (which is in fact one of the better
versions of this kind of deterrent) can be broken into with a
screwdriver in well under a minute just by twisting fiercely.
Further, many steering wheels on new cars are just chunks of plastic
-- they can often be deformed enough to remove the lock without doing
anything else, or they can be easily cut.

Steering wheeol locks have some use as a deterrent against uninformed
joyriders, and as a "legal" weapon in your car (if you want such a
thing).  They're useless aside from that and they're a hell of a
bother.

>Scanning
>-----------
>It seems that with cheaper and/or older alarms, it is possible to
>transmit all of the codes in rapid fire sequence to a car alarm.
>Eventually, you will hit upon the right code combination to disarm
>the alarm.  (Evidently the Viper has 2 to the 29th codes which is
>not very many). The Derringer/2 only has 4096.

Huh?  2**29 is a hell of a lot, more than 512 million codes.  I'd call
that sufficient even if they can transmit each code reliably in a
hundredth of a second.

4096 would worry me, but once you get into the many thousands it's not
worth thinking about.

One thing you don't talk about is recovery systems which can give you
better insurance premiums (significantly better in MA).  I know of two
systems but have experience with only one, LoJack.

Simple summary of LoJack features:

LoJack contains a transponder that can be used by police to locate the
car.  Several states have outfitted their state police with apparatus
to trigger and locate these, allowing them to quickly track down your
car.  In states so equipped LoJack has a very high recovery rate.  If
you find your car is missing you call the state police, they show up
and you sign a form, then they trigger the transponder in the car.
Usually recovery is made in fifteen to thirty minutes from the time
they start looking.

Since there can be significant delay between when the thief steals
your car and when you notice and get the police to show up it's
possible for the thief to tear out the alarm before recovery is
started.  This is a weakness but since most thefts are not by
professional thieves it's *very* uncommon (for a long time in
Massachusetts LoJack had lost just one car -- even today they're still
in the 90th percentile recovery rate, which is phenomenal in this
area).

LoJack comes in three models with increasing capabilities, numbered I,
II, and III.  First is the basic recovery system, priced at $599.
This can be used to locate your car but has no other deterrents.
Second is the recovery plus kill switch, which has no audible alarm
but disables ignition, for $699.  This model is the lowest that
provides maximum insurance discounts in MA, and is the model I
ordered.  The third model (which is the one I got even though I didn't
order it or pay for it) supplies an audible entrance alarm in addition
to the other features, and is priced at $799.

All LoJack models automatically arm after 30 seconds and have a manual
arm/disarm remote and a valet switch.  They can be disabled without
the remote by turning on the ignition and enabling the valet switch.
This is a weakness in the immediate theft-prevention measures but it
has no effect on the recovery system.

Arming chirps the audible models once, disarming twice.  Flashing
lights wasn't given as an option to me and I don't know if it supports
it.

The entrance alarm is electrically triggered.  The electrical trigger
system is odd in that it has two levels -- the level at which it can
arm and the level at which it will set off the alarm.  My hatchback's
little access light will set off the alarm but won't keep the alarm
from arming automatically.  An open door does keep the alarm from
arming, as does the emergency flashers or headlights.

I've had absolutely no false alarms, something which was very
important to me.

I've gone through your list of features and indicated the features
supplied by LoJack.

>)     Include switch pins for all 4 doors? (D,V,U)
>)     Include switch pin for trunk? (D,V,U)
>)     Include switch pin for hood? (D,V,U)

No switch pins, it's all electrical.

>)     Include ignition kill when alarm is armed (also called Starter
>      disable or Starter Kill)? (D,V-option,U)

With level II and III alarms.

>)     Include Glass breakage sensor?  (D) What is the quality of
>      this sensor?  Is it prone to false alarms (i.e. from creaking
>      of inner car parts)?
>)     Can the glass breakage sensor also be triggered by glass
>      cutting?

No breakage sensor is available.

>)     Include a seat pressure sensor?

No.

>)     Include a high quality adjustable motion sensor (if not very
>      adjustable then forget it) ? (U)
>)     Include a "dual sensitivity" switch for the motion detector
>      (as with the Ungo box)? (U)
>)     Include a switch to de-activate just the motion sensor?

No motion sensor is available.

>)     Include a shock sensor? (V)
>)     Is the shock sensor user adjustable? (V-no)
>)     Can the shock sensor be shut off or disabled? (V-no)

No shock sensor is available.

>)     Include a "field" sensor to sense moving objects? (Some Alpine
>      systems)
>)     Is this field sensor an "add-on" or is the alarm specifically
>      designed for this type of sensor? (Some alpine systems)
>)     What is the quality of this field sensor?  Is it prone to
>      false alarms (e.g. rain, dogs, cats, other cars, passers by)?
>)     Is the field sensor user adjustable for distance and time
>      spans?

No field sensor is available.

>)     Include a current sensor?

Standard on model III.  This is the way the entrance alarm works.

>)     Does the alarm have a "silent" testing mode so I can test the
>      sensors, etc. (like the Derringer/2) ? (D)

No.

>)     Can the alarm be switched between active or passive arming
>      (active arming only if not) every time the alarm is armed? (V)

No, it's permanently in automatic arm mode.

>)     Are there multiple zones?  (i.e. All doors = zone1,
>      trunk = zone2,  Hood = zone3 . . .) (D,V)
>)     Does each zone have lock out capability when armed (i.e. if I
>      leave the trunk open, will the rest of the sensors still
>      activate)? (D,V)

No.

>)     Main unit "brain" mounted inside the dash board behind the
>      center column or inside the dashboard.

LoJack is only installed by LoJack personnel.  Dealers don't do it.
It's installed inside the dash against the firewall on my car.

>)     Two sirens, one placed in an inaccessible location under the
>      hood.

One siren, mounted in the hood.  Mine is easily accessible.

>)     Can you install an internal alarm to sound *inside* the car?
>      (Thanks again to R. L.)

No internal alarm.

>)     Is all wiring well hidden. No exposed wires at all, especially
>      to sirens and batteries?

The siren wiring is accessible if the hood's open (it's inaccessible
without opening the hood).  All other wiring is inside the dash and is
completely unexposed.

>)     Is there a remote "Panic" mode or at least some type of
>      "finder" mode?

Yes.  If the remote is held for three seconds the alarm goes off.

>)     Are there relay outputs for automatic door locks when armed?
>      (D,V)

No.

>)     Is there a switch for silent (lights flash only) or audible
>      chirp when arming (like the Viper)? (V)

No, although I would have liked this option.  The chirps are *loud*.

>)     Back-up battery which powers both alarm and siren (How is it
>      wired? In series? parallel? re-chargeable?

I'm not certain about this one although it seems likely that the
transponder has its own power supply.  I never asked.

>)     Are there 2 separate fused power inputs to avoid disabling the
>      alarm by shorting out?
>)     Are the power inputs isolated and fused close to the battery
>      to avoid shorting out?

No idea.

>)     Include 2 small remote control transmitter units with decent
>      range and long battery life?

Yes.  Additional units are $39.

>)     What type of battery?  Where can I get them?

It's a lithium battery, a common watch type.

>)     Does the transmitter have good range?

When new the transmitter would generally work at a range of about
100'.  Now, after a year of heavy use, it's down to about 50'
(assuming some obstructions).

>)     Do you have to be in line of sight to arm/disarm?

No although you get better range that way.

>)     Does the transmitter stop transmitting after 1 second to avoid
>      draining the transmitter battery?

No, although it might do so after several seconds (three seconds is
the panic switch).  The documentation doesn't mention it.  The
transmitter's button is small and recessed; I've seldom hit it by
accident.

>)     Is it difficult to press down the buttons accidentally?

Yes.

>)     How many codes can the transmitter use?  Is it easily
>      scannable?

I'm not certain; the transmitter has a 4-digit alphanumeric identifier
(two letters and two numbers).  This suggests a pretty wide code
sequence.  The recovery system has a unique code for every unit sold.

>)     Does the main unit contain anti-scanning circuitry?

I don't believe so.

>)     Include a valet switch? (D,V,U)

Yes.

>)     Can a paging feature can be added at a later time? (D,V,U)
>)     Does the pager use an additional output?

No.

>)     Does the dome light inside the car come on when the alarm is
>      disarmed (Like the Derringer/2) ?  Does this cost extra?

No.

>)     What is your (alarm dealer's) policy for repairs (if the car
>      is broken in to and the alarm is damaged)?

LoJack is warrantied for one year and you can extend that warranty for
some amount of money (I don't know how much, but they sent me a
special $100 unlited extension).  They recommend annual checks on the
transponder which are done for a nominal fee (again, I don't know how
much).

General question you didn't ask:

) Does the audible alarm shut off after a period of time?  How long?
(In some areas, eg NYC, the car owner can be fined if the alarm
doesn't shut up, and sometimes people will damage your car if it goes
off all night.)

Questions you didn't ask that deal with recovery systems:

) Does it have a recovery system?

) Is the recovery system automatically activated if the alarm is not
  disarmed, or does it need to be activated by the alarm company or
  police?

Lojack requires you to sign a "stolen vehicle" form before the police
activate the transponder.  This extends the amount of time a thief has
your car before they start looking for it.

) What areas (states, portion of the world) does the recovery system
  work in?

Lojack works in about a half-dozen states (I can't remember all of
them but MA, NJ, IL, and CA are in the list I believe -- I'm certain
no other northeastern states are).

My opinion of LoJack is they work as-advertised.  The recovery system
is the major feature but the kill switch and audible alarm act as
deterrents against the amateur thief and joyrider.  I've had no false
alarms, something which pleases me immensely.  The only complaint I
have about their installation is that they didn't fasten the carpet
down really well when they replaced the moulding by the driver's door
and it slipped out from under the moulding after about six months.

I think that about covers it.

My car dealer had one other recovery system whose name I can't
remember.  The system tied into a cellular phone and used the GPS
satellite system to locate itself.  If you didn't disable the alarm it
would ask you to do so via the phone.  If you didn't type in your code
in some amount of time it'd call the alarm company (and tell them
where you were down to a resolution of about ten meters), and if you
didn't convince the alarm company that you were the owner they could
disable the engine remotely and tell the police exactly where the car
was -- anywhere in the western hemisphere.  This system depended
heavily on the cellular phone and I suspect that chopping the antenna
off before entering the car would do wonders towards disabling it.
The system was around $1500.  It was interesting but was the kind of
system I'd consider putting into a Mercedes, not a Geo Storm :-).

jim frost
[e-mail]

To: Richard Holowczak <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: CAR ALARM FAQ (or a good start)
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 92 13:57:25 EST
From: Jim Frost <[e-mail]>

|BTW, if you don't like motion sensors, and you don't like glass sensors,
|how do you protect your windows from being forced open or cut with
|a glass cutter?

I don't.  I figure if they're going to smash the windows to get in the
car an alarm system isn't likely to do anything at all.  Besides,
after they smash (or cut) the window they either have to climb in the
window or open the door.  Climbing in the window of my car -- a Geo
Storm -- would be an exercise in flexibility.  A child could do it but
I certainly wouldn't want to try it.  Opening the door would of course
set off the entrance alarm, negating the advantage you got from
cutting the window.

BTW you could use a butane torch or electric hot-point to cut the
window without making "break-in" noise at all, avoiding smash sensors
completely.  I know they don't do it, but they could.

Around here the big problem is stealing the whole car.  For that
LoJack is quite reasonable both for its recovery and its ignition kill
features.  I hadn't heard that it was easily defeated but it must not
be too easy since they still manage to recover nearly all of them.
The kill switch fools the simple joyrider and the recovery system
helps get the car back if it's stolen.  That's good enough for me.

Stealing stereos or other stuff in the car is of course a fairly big
business.  I don't have an aftermarket stereo -- the Delco that came
with the car is surprisingly good and nobody steals Delco.  Since it's
easy to see the entire inside of the car (there's no trunk) and I
never keep anything valuable in it, thieves aren't likely to bother
breaking into it at all.

|I would not use just the lo-jack system for the following reason:
|Even if the Police find your car in under 30 mins, around here,
|there would be nothing left of it.

Same in Boston (I can even tell you where a couple of the chop-shops
are), but you can work around the problem by not buying a really
common car such as the Accord or Taurus or a really expensive car that
can be resold for a lot of money.  Thefts of cars with a good parts
market or high resale value are amongst the highest in the world here,
but other cars go basically untouched except by smash-and-grab stereo
thieves.

I deliberately avoided buying a car that I felt would be a good
target for either thieves or joyriders and have not had any problems
despite living and working in some pretty high-crime areas.

|Worst of all, many of the
|joyriders WANT the police to chase them so they look for cars with
|Lo-Jack.  Then it becomes a big game.  They usually end the chase by
|ramming the stolen car into as many other cars as possible. Word has
|it they like to see the air bags inflate, etc.

It's kind of hard to determine whether or not a car has LoJack to
target them, but what you speak of is common regardless of which (if
any) alarm system is used.  According to The New York Times it's
become quite the fad to steal cars with air bags and slam them into
police cars -- setting the air bag off and giving them quite a kick.
It's not commonly done around here.

I guess what it comes down to is what you intend the alarm to be used
for.  I don't expect my alarm -- or any of them for that matter -- to
really keep my car from getting stolen.  Something such as LoJack can
make recovery more likely and theft a bit harder, which is all you can
hope for anyway.  While that's a good thing, I really bought it to
drop my immediate insurance rates.  My comprehensive is high enough
that the 35% discount I get will totally pay for the alarm in three
years and it'll be saving money thereafter.  (I actually bought it for
the immediate savings, kind of like amortizing my insurance costs out
over three years instead of paying it up front.)

Good discussion.  I learned a bunch of things from your FAQ that will
probably be useful in the future.  Since you've obviously already
looked at LoJack I'm surprised you made no mention of it or other
recovery systems -- it would be good to add details.  It might be nice
to talk to LoJack to find out what they're doing now that they weren't
doing only a few years ago since it's obvious they've been evolving
their system.  They may have fixed some of the shortcomings you
mentioned.

Happy hacking,

jim frost
[e-mail]


To: Richard Holowczak <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: CAR ALARM FAQ (or a good start)
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 92 15:30:09 EST
From: Jim Frost <[e-mail]>

|Once again, thanks for your comments.  I will definitely
|add the Lo-Jack stuff and other ideas to the FAQ. One more point.
|I had a guy tell me his car was broken in to by removing the
|rear window (without setting off the alarm), climbing through,
|and cutting the wires to his alarm which were not hidden very well.

That makes me smile.  I've had to climb in the rear before, it's even
harder than through the side window :-).

|I mentioned in my FAQ that my alarm is fairly well hidden with a
|bare minimum of exposed wires. How is Lo-Jack wired and where do
|they put the "brain" unit?  (You might have said this already but I
|don't have your first mail in front of me this second).

I did mention it briefly.  There are no exposed wires except the wires
to the horn in the engine department.  The only thing that lets you
know there's an alarm in there is the valet switch (I've been thinking
of moving it to one of the blank switches on my dash to make it
completely invisible).  Tracing the wire from the horn gets you to the
firewall, tracing the valet switch leads up into the dash.  I never
took apart the dash enough to find the brain.  I suspect it's actually
mounted behind the fuse box against the firewall.  If I ever take out
the "upshift" light (which requires disassembling the dash) I'll look
harder, but it's certainly not a quick job to take out the transponder.

The installation job really was well done, but then again LoJack does
their own installations and doesn't trust the dealers.

jim



From [e-mail] Mon Nov  9 18:58 EST 1992
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 18:51:08 EST
From: [e-mail] (Shawn Herzinger)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: CAR ALARM FAQ (I think)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
Status: RO

Rich,

Thanks for posting this FAQ.  It should help a lot of
people.  One nifty trick you might want to include in the
next rev.  In order to increase the range of your remote,
hold it pressed against the bony part of your chin when
you push the button.  For some reason, your facial bone
structure acts as an auxilliary antenna and boosts your
range.  It sounds corny but it works!  I read this in
one of the car stereo magazines.

shawn
--
Shawn M. Herzinger
[e-mail]

From: [e-mail] (Mark J. Vandiver)
Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
Subject: Re: Alpine 8040 vs Ungo 5400
Date: 15 Jan 93 23:06:57 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: be41t
Lines: 25

[e-mail] (< Gary H >) writes:



>I just bought an Alpine 8040 alarm with microwave perimeter sensor.  I have
>not installed it yet, but I'm debating whether or not to go with the Alpine
>or the Ungo 5400.  Can anyone tell me about the Ungo 5400 or the Alpine 8040?
>The thing about the alpine is that it includes only one remote while the
>Ungo includes two.

Ireally like my Ungo 5400. I have not had any breakins, but hte installation
is straightforward, has options for all the major accessories, and pretty well
manufactured. Also it has a lifetime warrenty.

>Thanks,
>Gary
>--
From: [e-mail] (< Gary H >)
Newsgroups: rec.autos
Subject: RE: Alarm (Alpine 8040 vs Ungo 5400)
Date: 16 Jan 93 01:28:07 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (News admin)
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
Lines: 83



Evan, here's the letter I sent you, but it seems your system does not
recognize you.

In article <[e-mail]> you write:
>In article [e-mail], [e-mail] (< Gary H >) writes:
>>
>>
>> I just bought an Alpine 8040 alarm with microwave perimeter sensor.  I have
>> not installed it yet, but I'm debating whether or not to go with the Alpine
>> or the Ungo 5400.  Can anyone tell me about the Ungo 5400 or the Alpine 8040?
>> The thing about the alpine is that it includes only one remote while the
>> Ungo includes two.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Gary
>
>I've got an Alpine 8040 alarm installed in my vehicle. I think Alpine has the
>best microwave sensor on the market right now, with its dual sector
>operation. The key to its effectiveness is the install and the setting of the
>perimeter ranges. I did mine myself and am very pleased with it, although it
>did take a couple of tries to set it just right. If you install it yourself,
>get a copy of the installers manual (not the cheapo user's manual that comes
>in the box). A good addition is the 8327 shock/impact sensor.


Hi Evan!

Man, I've been trying so hard to get the installation manual.  They will only
let me look at it at the place I bought it.  I then called Alpine, but they
said they can only sell it to authorized dealers.  Phone conversation went
something like this:

Me: "hello, I would like to buy the alipine 8040 installation manual"
Alpine: "Are you an authorize dealer???"
Me: "No"
Alpine: "How did you get his number? Never mind.. We don't recommend you
        "installing it.  We only sell the manuals to authorize dealers."
Me: "alright!"

So, how did you get the installation manual?  If it's not too much trouble,
can you copy it for me? I'll be willing to pay for the cost of the copies and
for your troubles.

>I can't comment on the Ungo, but that when I was looking for alarms, the Ungo
>5200 was in the price range as the 8040. The Ungos have some decent
>motion/shock sensors, and in general seem to be feature-rich. Can you get a 5400
>for a similar price?

Can I ask how much you got the 8040 for? I paid $229 (on sale. Reg: 279)

I like the perimeter sensor (that's why I chose it).  I had an Audiovox
that I got from price club, but I would always give false alarms.  The sonar
system they use is pretty cool though.  Do you get false alarms from your
alpine?

Can you tell me more about the Ungo 5400? Do you think it's better than
the 8040?

>The 8040 alarm can be disabled w/o it if you lose it, and a new one can be
>"taught" from the ID prom in the brain.

I assume you're talking about the remote.

How long did it take you to install the alarm? In type of car?

>Try rec.audio.car for some further comments.

Great! Thanks.
Gary
--
|^^^^^^|            _Yo_Man_____________________________
|      |          /            [e-mail]             \
|  _  _|        /             uunet!sco!garyh              \
| (o)(o)      /             425  Encinal Street              \
@      _)   /          Santa Cruz, California  95061          |
 | ,___|   /   W: [408] 457-0195 x7765 / Fax: [408] 429-1887 /
 |   /     \_______________________________________________/
/____\            The Santa Cruz Operation (SCO), Inc.