NetNews Usenet Archive 1992 #31/NN_1992_31.iso/spool/talk/abortion/53813

Internet Message Format | 1993-01-01 | 5.2 KB

Xref: sparky talk.abortion:53813 talk.politics.misc:66002 alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:11216
Newsgroups: talk.abortion,talk.politics.misc,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Path: sparky!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!mcochran
From: [e-mail] (Mark A. Cochran)
Subject: Re: An End to the Sanctity of Human Life Argument
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
    of Denver for the Denver community.  The University has neither
    control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
Sender: [e-mail] (netnews admin account)
Organization: None worth mentioning.
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Distribution: na
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 93 01:46:55 GMT
Lines: 107

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Doug Holtsinger) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>
>[e-mail] (Mark A. Cochran) writes:
>>[e-mail] (Doug Holtsinger) writes:
>>>[e-mail] (The_Doge) writes:
>
>>>> Zygote and fetus are medically correct terms.
>
>>> And 'gravida' is the medically correct term for a
>>> pregnant woman.
>
>> It is *a* medically correct term, not the only one by any means.
>
>The term 'gravida' is the usual counterpart to the terms
>'fetus' and 'embryo'.  Of course, 'gravida' doesn't have
>any emotional appeal, unlike 'pregnant woman'.
>
Lookie here folks, DODie has branched out from preaching into
medicine! Now he wants to tell us all what terms are used.

I've got some bad news DODie. If you look through case histories,
you'll never see "<name>, a 24 yo gravida" You will, however, see
"<name>, a 24 yo female, gravida <number> para <number> term <number>
ab <number>" and you will also see "<name>, a 24 yo woman, gravida
<number> para <number> term <number>"

Sorry to be the one to break the news to you, but you're wrong. Again.

>>> The only people with political agendas are those
>>> who are inconsistent in their terminology.  You
>>> should either stick to 'medically correct' terms,
>>> or use the terms 'woman' and 'child'.
>
>>e Woman" is perfectly correct medically terminology
>
>Can you show me any textbook on embryology or obstetrics
>which mixes the terms 'woman' and 'fetus', instead of
>using the terms 'gravida' and 'fetus'?
>
No DODie, because in all of the texts I have, the term gravida is used
as a reference to how many times a woman has been pregnant. As in:
gravida 2, para 1, term 1 ab 1
which indicates the woman has been pregnant 2 times, delivered once,
which was at term, and has had 1 abortion (spontaneuos, in this case,
induced abortions are noted as ab 1 (theraputic)).

Here's some quotes for you DODie, since you're too stoopid to go read
anything for yourself. Feel free to verify them.

_Maternal-Newborn Nursing_ 4th Edition Olds/London/Ladewig
A random quote...
"As women in childbirth we bring out complete selves to the
experience... a woman births as she lives, expressing this continuity
of birth within the rest of a womans life."

Here's another... this one is a section heading.
"Care of the Woman During Version" [Version is external or internal
m,anipulation of the fetus to change it's presentation; i.e. from
breach to cephalic]

Another section heading:
"Care of the Woman During an Amniotomy"

And still another heading:
"Care of the Woman During Vacuum Extraction" [No DODie, this isn't
refering to an abortion. Vacuum extraction is commonly used to remove
the fetus during C-sections, and has almost completely replaced
forceps as the prefered method of assisting a difficult vaginal
delivery.]

Lets try another text, shall we?
_Maternity Nursing_ 14th Edition, Reeder/Mastroianni/Martin

Lets try a few quotes from a section relating to abortion, and see if
that causes any change in the terminology...

"Women have long sought abortioni as a solution to an unwanted
pregnancy, regardless of whether their culture approved or disapproved
of this practice." (Page 158, if you care to verify the quote)

Nope, still refering to them as women... Sorry DODie.

Shall I try another chapter? Might as well...

How about Chapter 22 "The Phenomena of Labor - Premonitory Signs of
Labor / Cause of Onset of Labor [...]"
o"Labor refers to the seris of processes by which the products of
conception are expelled by the mother."

"[...] Particularly in primigravidas, 'lightening' occurs about 10 to
14 days before delivery [...]"
[This is the first time we see 'gravida' used in any context. I'm
throwing in this quote to demonstrate what I mentioned above. The term
gravida is used as a reference to the number of pregnancies. It is not
used alone, to indicate a pregnant woman. It may be semantically
correct to use it in such a way, but it is never used that way in the
real world. You *do* live in the real world don't you DODie?]

I think that's enough quotes for one article DODie, especially since
you'll ignore the facts and continue to spout your nonsense to the
world.

--
                  Mark Cochran          [e-mail]
These are the views of my employer. They also represent the views of
your employer, your government, the Church of your choice, and the
Ghost of Elvis. So there.