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- Newsgroups: talk.abortion
- Path: sparky!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!swrinde!gatech!taco!csl36h.csl.ncsu.edu!dsholtsi
- From: dsholtsi@csl36h.csl.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger)
- Subject: Re: ABORTION: WHEN Does Human Life BEGIN?!
- Message-ID: <1992Dec24.030502.15930@ncsu.edu>
- Sender: news@ncsu.edu (USENET News System)
- Reply-To: dsholtsi@csl36h.csl.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger)
- Organization: North Carolina State University
- References: <1992Dec17.184619.2900@cnsvax.uwec.edu> <nyikos.725160597@milo.math.scarolina.edu>
- Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1992 03:05:02 GMT
- Lines: 69
-
- In article <nyikos.725160597@milo.math.scarolina.edu>
- nyikos@math.scarolina.edu (Peter Nyikos) writes:
- >mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes:
-
- >> The debate about the abortion issue really boils down to
- >> a question of when human life begins.
- >> [...]
- >> "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the
- >> ground, and breathed into his nostrils the BREATH OF LIFE,
- >> and man became a living Soul.".
-
- > [...]
- > Backing up :-) a bit: what portion of the baby must be outside the
- > birth canal before killing it is considered murder in present-day
- > America? Does the answer change if it is a breech delivery?
-
- The courts of some states have held that a child becomes
- a person once it shows signs of "independent life". This
- means that the child has to breathe on its own and have
- independent blood circulation. Physical expulsion from the
- mother's womb is not sufficient to acquire personhood status.
-
- This suggests, although I haven't seen it stated explicitly,
- that an abortionist can legally kill a child who is outside
- the mother's womb and still attached via the umbilical cord.
-
- Here's a quote from the text which I am relying upon:
-
-
- "Cases involving fetuses born after a full gestation period,
- but who died before they were completely separated from their
- mothers, offer other clues. In State v. Winthrop, the issue
- was whether the killing of such a fetus was homicide--the killing
- of a person. The trial court instructed the jury as follows:
-
- If the child is fully delivered from the body of the mother,
- while the after birth is not, and the two are connected by
- the umbilical cord, and the child had independent life, no
- matter whether it has breathed or not, it is a human being...
-
- Because that instruction looked solely to the fact of physical
- expulsion in defining personhood, the Supreme Court of Iowa
- reversed [the decision]. According to the court, the instruction
- ``would tell the jury ... that they might find independence of
- life in utter disregard of the conditions in which, alone it
- could exist.'' The high court held that potential independence
- was not enough; the state needed to show actual independence
- in order to sustain a conviction for homicide. Thus, the state
- had to prove that the victim had an independent circulation,
- that the umbilical cord had been severed, and that the newborn
- had breathed on its own before the killing. To be a ``person,''
- the infant needed to be capable of survival; mere physical
- separateness was not determinative.
-
- Other cases agree with Winthrop's view of when a fetus becomes
- a person and reject mere physical separation in favor of other
- factors, factors suggesting a capacity for continued independent
- life. The indices of live birth that courts have used include
- independent circulation, severance of the umbilical cord, and
- physical expulsion from the uterus. Secondary signs have also
- been offered, such as vocal cries and heartbeat. The most widely
- used criterion, however, has been independent respiration."
-
- Abortion, Moral And Legal Perspectives, 1984, pg. 63
- Patricia A. King
-
-
- Doug Holtsinger
-
-