NetNews Usenet Archive 1992 #31/NN_1992_31.iso/spool/sci/physics/22028

Internet Message Format | 1993-01-02 | 11.6 KB

Xref: sparky sci.physics:22028 sci.math:17594
Newsgroups: sci.physics,sci.math
Path: sparky!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!torn!watserv2.uwaterloo.ca!watdragon.uwaterloo.ca!daisy.uwaterloo.ca!deghare
From: [e-mail] (Dave Hare)
Subject: Re: Why no Nobel Prize in Math?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Waterloo
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 14:25:54 GMT
Lines: 242

This thread, together with other classics such as the Monty Hall problem,
recur often enough to lead me to speculate on how much of net traffic is
repetitive (and often silly).

In any case, I saved most of the (reasonably intelligent) postings on this
subject the last time this came around, so here it is.

======================================

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Apostolos Burnetas) writes:
>This is again the time of the year that Nobel Prizes are awarded,
>and it brings to mind one old question, that I have not been
>able to answer.
>
>Why is there no nobel prize for mathematics?
>

According to Garding and Hormander (Swedish mathematicians),
because Nobel didn't care much for mathematics. He saw the use
of physics, chemistry and medicine for practical improvements
of the human condition, important discoveries, also he was
interested in literature, and was a close friend of a pacifist,
Bertha von Suttner.

See: Mathematical Intelligencer, vol. 7 (3), 1985, p. 74.


In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Daniel A Ashlock) writes:
>
>   (i) Nobel's bequest specifically disallows a prize in math because
>       (i.a) Mittag Leffler, a colleague he disliked, was a brilliant
>             mathematician who might have won.
>       (i.b) The king of Sweden at the time was a mathematician and there
>             were prizes galore for math already.
>       (i.c) Nobel was hung up on direct benefits and thought math too
>abstract.
>
>   (ii) Nobel's wife couldn't have run off with anyone, he was never married.
>
>   (iii) Most americans think there is a Nobel in math and never heard of
>         the Fields medal.
>Dan
>-my opinions
------------------------------------------------------------------
Comments:
(i) Nobel's will does *not* specifically disallow a mathematics prize.
It does specify the 5 areas he wished to honor: Physics, Chemistry,
Medicine or Physiology, Literature, Peace.
(i.a)This is a standard, but almost certainly false, rumor.  It seems
hopeless to try to kill it. See additional remarks below, originally
posted in 1988.
(i.b) News to me, although it may be true that the King of Sweden was
interested in mathematics.  E.g. there was a prize in his name for
work in celestial mechanics, which was awarded to Poincare'.
(i.c) This seems to be true -- Nobel simply wasn't particularly interested
in mathematics. (The simplest explanation of why there is no Nobel prize
for mathematics -- but evidently not "satisfying", hence the need to
invent juicier stories.)
(ii) Ah, but Nobel did have a *mistress*.
(iii) Most Americans probably have no idea whether or not there is a Nobel
prize in mathematics.  I would guess that a very high percentage has never
even heard of the Nobel prize, let alone the Fields medal. I know for a fact
that there are well educated Americans who confuse the Nobel prize with
the Pulitzer prize.

*******************************************
Reposting of article originally posted 3 Nov 88:

Subject: Re: Nobel Prizes
Summary: math prize mythology

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Ethan Tecumseh Vishniac) writes:
>I heard a story that Nobel omitted prizes in astronomy and mathematics
>in order to prevent an astronomer/mathematician named Mittag Lefler
>(spelling is almost certainly wrong) from ever getting one.  He
>suspected him of having an affair with Mrs. Nobel.  Can someone with
>a little more historical knowledge comment on this story?
>--

Having spent some real effort to investigate this story, I am
certain that it is totally false. I conjecture that it started
many years ago as something of a joke.

The facts are these:
1. Nobel never married, hence no ``wife". (He did have a mistress,
a Viennese woman named Sophie Hess.)
2. Gosta Mittag-Leffler was an important mathematician in Sweden
in the late 19th-early 20th century.  He was the founder of the
journal Acta Mathematica, played an important role in helping the
career of Sonya Kovalevskaya, and was eventually head of the
Stockholm Hogskola, a technical institute. However, it seems
highly unlikely that he would have been a leading candidate for
an early Nobel Prize in mathematics, had there been one -- there
were guys like Poincare and Hilbert around, after all.

3.  There is no evidence that Mittag-Leffler
had much contact with Alfred Nobel (who resided in Paris
during the latter part of his life), still less that there was
animosity between them for whatever reason.  To the contrary,
towards the end of Nobel's life Mittag-Leffler was engaged in
``diplomatic" negotiations to try to persuade Nobel to designate
a substantial part of his fortune to the Hogskola. It seems hardly
likely that he would have undertaken this if there was prior
bad blood between them.  Although initially Nobel seems to have
intended to do this, eventually he came up with the Nobel Prize
idea -- much to the disappointment of the Hogskola, not to mention
Nobel's relatives and Fraulein Hess.

According to the very interesting study by Elisabeth Crawford,
``The Beginnings of the Nobel Institution", Cambridge Univ. Press,
1984, pages 52-53:

``Although it is not known how those in responsible positions
at the Hogskola came to believe that a *large* bequest was forthcoming,
this indeed was the expectation, and the disappointment was keen when
it was announced early in 1897 that the Hogskola had been left out
of Nobel's final will in 1895.  Recriminations followed, with both
Pettersson and Arrhenius [academic rivals of Mittag-Leffler in the
administration of the Hogskola] letting it be known that Nobel's
dislike for Mittag-Leffler had brought about what Pettersson termed
the `Nobel Flop'.  This is only of interest because it may have
contributed to the myth that Nobel had planned to institute a prize
in mathematics but had refrained because of his antipathy to Mittag-
Leffler or -- in another version of the same story -- because of their
rivalry for the affections of a woman...."

4.  A final speculation concerning the psychological element.
Would Nobel, sitting down to draw up his testament, presumably
in a mood of great benevolence to mankind, have allowed a mere
personal grudge to distort his idealistic plans for the monument
he would leave behind?
     I believe that Nobel, an inventor and industrialist, did not create
a prize in mathematics simply because he was not particularly interested
in mathematics or theoretical science.  His will speaks of
prizes for those ``inventions or discoveries" of greatest
practical benefit to mankind.  (Probably as a result of this language,
the physics prize has been awarded for experimental work much more
often than for advances in theory.)
    However, the story of some rivalry over a woman is obviously
much more amusing, and that's why it will probably continue to
be repeated.

************************************************************

--
# Paul R. Chernoff                       [e-mail]     #
# Department of Mathematics              ucbvax!math!chernoff           #
# University of California               [e-mail]    #
# Berkeley, CA  94720                                                   #


In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

>In <[e-mail]>
>[e-mail] (Apostolos Burnetas) writes:
>
>>This is again the time of the year that Nobel Prizes are awarded,
>>and it brings to mind one old question, that I have not been
>>able to answer.
>>
>>Why is there no nobel prize for mathematics?

>As far as I know, Nobel created the prize for important discoveries in
>Natural Science. And mathematics don't belong to them.
>
>Hope that helps.

No, I'm afraid that doesn't help at all. After all, Nobel created a
prize in literature, and one for Peace, which is even less among the
natural sciences than maths is.

The only satisfactory answer I've heard is that Nobel, being an
engineer and an industrialist wa a very practical man, who could see
the good done to society by physicists, chemists and medical people,
but apparently didn't consider maths to be very useful for society.

Nobel wasn an idealist, a man who wanted to improve the world. The
improvement should, apparently, be done mainly by science, technology
and medicine.

Why he wanted to award a Peace Prize as well is easy to understand -
but why he included Literature is a bit of a mystery.

His will says that the Prizes should be awarded to the people who
during the last year had made the greatest good for mankind in some
specified disciplines - and to the greatest contribution in "ideal
[sic] literature" or something like that. Nobody knows what he meant by
"ideal" in the field of literature. Apparently, he viewed literature
as a way of improving Mankind. He probably wouldn't be very pleased
with some of the Literature laureates chosen by the Swedish Academy
during the years...


In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (John C. Baez) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Doug Merritt) writes:
>>I think it more likely that Nobel just happened not to list math (hey,
>>a list of a mere 5 areas to award is a short list any way you look at it),
>>and the trustees have been too conservative to add it since then. The
>>only new award not specified by Nobel is that for economics. I have no
>>idea how and why that one happened, but one new category in almost 100
>>years is certainly conservative.
>
>Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I've heard that the "Nobel prize" in
>economics is not funded from the same source as the other Nobel prizes; i.e.,
>someone essentially decided to fund a prize in economics and just *call* it
>the Nobel prize.

Almost correct; the prize was funded by the National Bank of Sweden in
1968. It's actually not even _called_ the "Nobel prize in economics",
the official name is "The Alfred Nobel memorial prize in economics".

>This is in fact the best solution to our problem: get someone
>to fund a mathematics prize and *call* it the "Nobel prize"!

Just _calling_ it the "Nobel prize in mathematics" wouldn't be
sufficient - much of the prestige of the "real" Nobel prize comes from
the elaborate award ceremony (the prizes are handed to the laureates by
the King of Sweden). The prestige of the Economy Prize is due to the
fact that it is awarded at the same ceremony, and I suppose getting
the Nobel committe to award a mathematics prize at the same ceremony
would be the hard part.

And, yes, the committe _is_ conservative - but that's partly what gives
the prize its prestige and dignity.

>If there are
>legal problems, just call it the "Noble prize".

I take that to be said tounge-in-cheek; however, just changing the
spelling of a name is _not_ a way of avoiding legal problems. Imagine
what would happen if you tried to sell "Sea-Rocks photocopiers"...

--
Magnus Olsson                   | \e+      /_
Dept. of Theoretical Physics    |  \  Z   / q
University of Lund, Sweden      |   >----<
Internet: [e-mail]     |  /      \===== g
Bitnet: THEPMO@SELDC52          | /e-      \q