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- Newsgroups: rec.scouting
- Path: sparky!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!nic.umass.edu!umassd.edu!SMUCS1.UMASSD.EDU!PNSF01DW
- From: pnsf01dw@UMASSD.EDU (Dennis J. Wilkinson)
- Subject: Re: Hangmans Noose
- Message-ID: <BzMAHI.H05@umassd.edu>
- Sender: usenet@umassd.edu (USENET News System)
- Reply-To: pnsf01dw@UMASSD.EDU
- Organization: UMASS DARTMOUTH, NO. DARTMOUTH, MA.
- References: <1h0vrmINNon0@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>
- Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1992 16:15:17 GMT
- Lines: 69
-
- In article <1h0vrmINNon0@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu>, ad980@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Paul S. Wolf) writes:
- >
- >In a previous article, smackinnon@mta.ca () says:
- >
- >>In article <arklein-181292133511@minos.pica.army.mil>, arklein@pica.army.mil (Arnold S. Klein) writes:
- >>>I,ve heard that it is against scout policy to make, or show how to make a
- >>>hangmans noose to scouts, is this true?
- >>>
- >>>Arnold S. Klein at Armament Reasearch, Development and Engineering Center
- >>>(ARDEC) E-Mail arklein@pica.army.mil
- >> I though it was against the law to make a noose.
- >>qshawn
- >>
- >>
- >As far as I know, there is nothing illegal, nor is it against OFFICIAL BSA
- >rules to make or teach how to make nooses. HOWEVER, no Scouter I know will
- >teach the noose, nor let the boys make them. They are not Knots used for
- >any legitimate scouting purpose.
-
- Ditto here. I've never seen any proof to the rumors that the hangman's noose is
- "illegal" or "against policy" - but I agree that it's a bad idea to teach the
- knots to Scouts (considering that unless it's being used as a rather morbid
- decoration, it's useless and potentially dangerous).
-
- Just some knot trivia... (Mr. Scoutcraft kicking in again... sorry)
-
- You almost always teach scouts a variant of the noose, sometimes unwittingly.
- The slip knot (as it's commonly tied, with the standing part slipped) is
- technically a noose, while a true slip knot has the end slipped.
-
- What we in the good ol' USA call a square knot is really a reef knot (check with
- a Brit or two and ask them what a square knot is... you'll probably get a SQUARE
- knot! At least, that was my experience from Natl. Camp School...) When rigged
- ships were the most common, the reef knot was probably responsible for the
- deaths of more sailors than any other... if tied to join two lines or ropes that
- were to be used for hauling or lifting. The reef knot isn't designed to bear
- weight (it's for closing packages, really) and under a heavy load will do one of
- two things - slip completely, or break (it weakens line severly). Use a sheet
- bend for joining lines (even if they're DIFFERENT sizes!)
-
- The "shoelace bow", depending on how it's tied, is either a doubly-slipped reef
- or a doubly-slipped "granny" knot.
-
- Once upon a time (and probably sitll) knots that were physically identical but
- tied in a different way were given different names. Check out the reef and
- miller's knot for an example (at least I think it's the millers knot... it's ben
- a while).
-
- Some people call a variant of the hangman's noose the "Boy Scout coil" --
- sometimes seen in a slightly twisted form on a new coil of clothesline or
- sashcloth.
-
- No two Gordian knots are alike, at least in principle.
-
- If you're a knot buff (especially a decorative knot buff or a rigging buff)
- check out _The Ashley Book of Knots_ by Clifford Ashley. It's a fairly old book,
- so it won't include specialty knots that evolved with kernmantled rope (like
- the Alpine Butterfly or the Prussik) but it does have a thousand knots or so,
- with directions for tying and illustrations by the author. Also makes a great
- Christmas present for your favorite Pioneering counselor.... ;-)
-
- --Dennis
-
-
- ----------------------------------------------------
- Dennis J. Wilkinson, II (pnsf01dw@umassd.edu)
- University of Massachusetts Dartmouth - Design/CS Project
-
- The opinions reflected in this post are MINE!!!! ALL MINE!!!!!
-