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- Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
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- From: hahn@plugh.network.com (Peter Hahn)
- Subject: Re: Just Curious...
- Message-ID: <1992Dec22.192735.19912@ns.network.com>
- Sender: news@ns.network.com
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- References: <50040221@hpcupt1.cup.hp.com> <1992Dec21.194505.12371@ns.network.com> <1h5khtINNdra@pith.uoregon.edu>
- Date: Tue, 22 Dec 92 19:27:35 GMT
- Lines: 60
-
- In article <1h5khtINNdra@pith.uoregon.edu> toman@bovine.uoregon.edu (J. Toman) writes:
- >In article <1992Dec21.194505.12371@ns.network.com> hahn@plugh.network.com (Peter Hahn) writes:
- >>
- >>Nor are they the only ones. I've seen all sorts of sources trying to
- >>draw a link between modern day Western boxing and the sort that was
- >>practiced in the ancient Greek Olympics. Nope. Present day boxing
- >>dates back to the end of the 1700's, no more.
- >
- >So say two Gallic types wanted to brain one another but there weren't
- >any tools handy ; what did they do ?
-
- Gentlemen, sir, did not fight in the mud like peasants, but rather, on
- the field of honor, with proper weapons as per the Code Duello. As for
- the peasants, well, who cared? Certainly no one who bothered to write
- it down.
-
- I'm being facetious, of course, but not by very much.
-
- > I find it difficult to believe
- >that with all that fighting that happened on the European continent,
- >someone somewhere didn't develop a stylised method of unarmed fighting
- >before the late 1700's.
-
- Certainly there were wrestling styles, some of which, like Cornish
- wrestling, still exist today, and many others, which no longer exist,
- having been subsumed into international styles like free-style wrestling
- or Sambo. I'd imagine that's what peasants resorted
- to, when push came to shove.
-
- Or they stood toe to toe, taking big swings and throwing over-hand
- hammers, like in a John Wayne movie, till someone went down.
-
- > It might not have been 'boxing' , but there
- >were moves in there that turned in to 'boxing' .
-
- Why do you think that there had to be some sort of boxing style at
- all? Though people like us usually don't think about it very much,
- punching someone with a closed fist is *not* a natural thing to do,
- and throwing a straight punch -- like in boxing, karate, or whatever
- have you, most certainly isn't. And boxing isn't terribly useful for
- real martial (i.e., war) purposes when everyone's wearing armor.
-
- Watch little kids fight sometime -- they'll wrestle, pinch, grab,
- push, bite -- but if they punch, you can take it to the bank they
- learned it from someone older.
-
- > I guess your last
- >statement is just a bit discontinuous for me, and I'd need to hear
- >your history of boxing to believe it.
-
- Most every account I've seen agrees that modern day boxing was developed
- by English fencing masters around the end of the eighteenth century, and
- was, initially, sort of an empty-hand version of their sword-and-buckler
- style.
-
- --
- Peter Hahn |hahn@network.com|"...Ch'en worked in a drugstore on the
- 7600 Boone Ave. N |+1 612 424-4888 |second story...and at noon each day he
- Brooklyn Park, MN USA| |would leave for lunch in an eccentric
- 55428 | |way: he would stroll out the window..."
-