NetNews Usenet Archive 1992 #31/NN_1992_31.iso/spool/bit/listserv/csgl/2010

Text File | 1992-12-30 | 3.0 KB | 58 lines

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Path: sparky!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!paladin.american.edu!auvm!BEN.DCIEM.DND.CA!MMT
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Newsgroups: bit.listserv.csg-l
Date:         Wed, 30 Dec 1992 16:47:34 EST
Sender:       "Control Systems Group Network (CSGnet)" <[e-mail]>
From:         [e-mail]
Subject:      Re: Apologies
Lines: 47

[Martin Taylor 921230 16:30]
(Bruce Nevin 921230 10:53 and Bill Powers 921229.2100) in response to
(Tom Bourbon 921228.1550 CST)

Both Bruce and Bill, from different viewpoints, argue that you should be
able to say the same things publicly or privately.  As the one to whom
Tom was mainly apologizing, I don't think I agree.  Bruce's argument was
essentially that one should be circumspect in both cases, and not say
anything privately that one would not wish to be made public (and that
it displayed trust to do otherwise--an independent point).  Bill's point
is:
> A friend is someone
>you can call a stupid sunuvabitch without fearing that it's
>goodbye forever. Say what you think; we're all grown up around
>here.

Bill has said that before, on similar occasions.  The problem arises not
with the friends, but with the lurkers who may not realize that these
things are said among friends, or if the insult is simed at someone who
may not be sure that the insulter thinks of the insultee as a friend.
To my friends and those whom I trust, I can be very insulting because I
know that they will take it in the proper context.  But I don't normally
do it in public, because one of the aspects of social interaction is the
perception that third parties have of one's relationships.  Courtesy is
important, except in private, and then only if the discourtesy is taken
properly.

Now I admit to being at fault, not following my own prescription on several
occasions.  Like Bruce, I sometimes forget that we are not a closed
community.  When I teased Rick with a comment I won't repeat because he
did find it insulting, I was thinking within a closed community consisting
of Rick, Bill P., Tom, Bruce, and one or two others, forgetting that there
are over 100 other people, some of whom may not know the depth of Rick's
understanding of PCT.  I said the sort of thing I would have said to Rick
face to face over a beer.  That is not appropriate on a public mailing list.

Tom's comment likewise was intended to be private.  (I would have preferred
it to be Cc-ed to me--I like to know what people think of me, even if it
isn't complimentary).  I answered him privately, and, I hope adequately
and not insultingly.  I do not think Tom's comment should have been public,
and he didn't intend it so.  Within the small closed community, I would
have no problem with it being public.  As Bill said, "We're all grown up
around here."  But there are listeners who might be tempted to chime in,
and the very last thing we want on CSG-L is a flame war like those that
occur on so many mailing lists and Usenet groups.

Martin