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- Path: sparky!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!rochester!cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!garvin
- From: garvin+@cs.cmu.edu (Susan Garvin)
- Newsgroups: alt.rush-limbaugh
- Subject: Re: Kicked out of a.f.d-q? I don't think so
- Message-ID: <BzqAL3.99H.1@cs.cmu.edu>
- Date: 23 Dec 92 20:07:49 GMT
- References: <nate.964@psygate.psych.indiana.edu> <1102@blue.cis.pitt.edu> <nate.979@psygate.psych.indiana.edu>
- Sender: news@cs.cmu.edu (Usenet News System)
- Organization: School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon
- Lines: 76
- Nntp-Posting-Host: morpheus.cimds.ri.cmu.edu
-
- In article <nate.979@psygate.psych.indiana.edu> nate@psygate.psych.indiana.edu (Nathan Engle) writes:
- #sgast+@pitt.edu (Susan Garvin) writes:
- ##I've seen posts in this newsgroup from both Chaney/Hall and Schmidling
- ##in the last week. I don't think that they've "gone" anywhere.
- #
- # Well, I must admit that I ignore a great deal of the traffic that
- #comes through here, but I can't recall any posts by Steve for a week or
- #so and none from Jack for over a month. I don't suppose you'd be willing
- #to quote me an NNTP header from one of them? (No, I suppose not, since
- #you don't even quote the text of articles to which you're responding...)
-
- I quoted your every word this time. I didn't realize that you
- needed to see the original in the reply.
-
- My sites only keep articles in this newsgroup for a week, and there
- are no longer any available from these two. That means you're
- right and I'm wrong, of course - they haven't posted in over a week.
- I don't consider a one week absence all that meaningful, myself.
-
- ##I can understand your wish that everyone be welcomed in every newsgroup,
- ##but it's not a very realistic wish. The existence of moderated
- ##groups and the frequent calls for more such groups are evidence of
- ##this.
- #
- # This is the paragraph that I really wanted to respond to, because it's
- #not the first time that you've made the assumption that my motivation for
- #mentioning Chaney and Schmidling was that I want them to be welcomed
- #everywhere. I really thought that my whole point all along in this thread
- #was that these two guys were prime examples of people who are *NOT* welcomed
- #everywhere and that on that basis it's not too hard to see how Ted could
- #also get into the same predicament.
-
- Actually, I think these two guys are prime examples of people who
- are not welcome anywhere.
-
- Your point, as I saw it, was that people can be made to feel
- unwelcome in newsgroups. My point was that "made to feel unwelcome"
- is not the same as being "kicked out." There's no way to exclude
- someone from posting in an unmoderated newsgroup.
-
- # As far as the increasing tendency towards moderated newsgroups is
- #concerned, I'm sure that you're correct, however I'm afraid that I see
- #the trend as somewhat undesirable. In my opinion the free and open
- #exchange of ideas loses a great deal of its value when the participants
- #on either side retreat into an environment of even well-intentioned
- #censorship.
-
- I agree. I don't like moderated newsgroups. I can understand the
- motivation (excluding meaningless flames), but, in practice, flames
- aren't the only posts that are excluded.
-
- ##I don't much care for people who can dish it out but not take it. You
- ##may feel differently.
- #
- # No, I'm not sure just what I've said or done that's given you the
- #idea that I might disagree with you on that point, but maybe if I keep on
- #denying your incorrect implications then you'll eventually get the message
- #that I am not defending Steve or Jack but rather the right of free speech
- #to which they have just as great a claim to as you or me.
-
- I don't see how their right to free speech has been abridged. They
- can (and do) still post where they please.
-
- You seem to be arguing that Chaney/Hall and Schmidling have a
- right to free speech, but those who argue against them do not.
- (I've seen this argument before, from Chaney/Hall, in reference
- to Gov. Casey's attempts to speak with protesters present.)
- I think that people have an equal right to free speech, but
- no one has the right to force people to listen to them.
-
- Susan
-
- #--
- #Nathan Engle Software Juggler
- #Psychology Department Indiana University
- #nate@psygate.psych.indiana.edu nengle@copper.ucs.indiana.edu
-