NetNews Usenet Archive 1992 #31/NN_1992_31.iso/spool/alt/activism/19818

Internet Message Format | 1992-12-24 | 6.3 KB

Xref: sparky alt.activism:19818 alt.politics.usa.misc:729 talk.politics.misc:65299
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.politics.usa.misc,talk.politics.misc
Path: sparky!uunet!uunet.ca!geac!amaron!seachg!chrisb
From: [e-mail] (Chris Blask)
Subject: Re: What is United States of America like?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Chris Blask)
Organization: Sea Change Corporation, Mississauga, Ontario, Canada
References: <4z-r5==@dixie.com> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 92 20:47:00 GMT
Lines: 115

I'm reposting an entire article again, and I'm sorry but it is worth
reading.

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jyrki Kuoppala) writes:
>>Despite some very well crafted propaganda in that paragraph,
>>the United States is NOTHING like Nazi Germany. The Nazi's
>
>I hear reports of kids trained to inform to the officials about their
>parents.

>I hear reports of proposed legislation to required every telephone or
>other communication network operator be required to build taps for the
>Government on all equipment.

>I hear reports of U.S. government agencies kidnapping people in
>foreign countries, against those countries laws.

FELLOW AMERICANS!!!  Listen closely to what this person is saying, and if
it reminds anyone of MCarthyism, then perhaps we need to speak out instead
of letting the more paranoid conservative interest groups influence policy
decisions.  I am often a supporter of US actions, as I am about Somalia, but
we didn't get this bad reputation COMPLETELY out of the blue.

>I hear reports of U.S. government hitting on a ship on international
>waters for transporting a drug illegal in USA, while the ship was not
>coming from USA, was not going to USA, and had no anything else to do
>with USA.

Undoubtably true.  What does this say about our ability to integrate into a
truly global society?

>I hear reports of U.S. military invading Panama to get Noriega, in
>violation of international treaties and all concepts of jurisdictions.

I can't argue with the need for subterfuge and less-than-pure dealings in a
real world, it's a messy job.  BUT, we can't be running into other folks'
countries and arresting the leaders when we no longer agree.  Very Soviet
of us, I think.

>I hear reports of the U.S. military going to Somalia, then declaring a
>prohibition on the Somalian's drug of choice, khat, while the
>Somalians are worried that the U.S. drug of choice, alcohol (which
>they report is brought to Somalia by the U.S. troops in great
>amounts), will cause much more trouble and health hazards in Somalia
>than khat does.  The Somalians believe that alcohol is more dangerous
>a drug than khat, and from everything I've heard it seems they're
>probably right.

Probably true also.  While I can sympathize with soldiers afraid of being
shot by stoned desperados, let us (everyone going into Somalia) remember
some of the disasters of social integration:  North American Natives, South
American Natives...  Tricky balance, but we can't replace their society
with our own.

>I hear speeches by the U.S. president chanting things like "One nation
>under God", "May God bless our troops", "The greatest nation on Earth".
>I hear reports of a war being declared and fought in USA - a war
>against "drugs", with the Bill of Rights being the major casualty.
>I hear plans for "boot camps" with "training" for the drug, ie.
>political, criminals.

This whole issue is a mess, but i believe the salient point is the
"greatest nation on earth" sentiment.  Nationalism is not something greatly
encouraged in much of the world (how do you integrate if you are better
than any9one else?), and we need to learn to get a perspective.

>I hear statistics saying that U.S. of A. has the biggest percentage of
>people in jail, and more blacks in jail per population than South
>Africa, and that most (much over 50 percent I think) are there for
>non-violent drug crime, ie. are essentially political prisoners.

Got us again.  Don't you hate it when people are right?

>I see a president candidate whose major agenda is "change" getting a
>very big percentage of the vote taking into consideration he wasn't
>from the demopublican party.  Go check what the situation was in Germany.
>I see people talking about a "moral imperative" for the U.S.
>government to be "world police".

The moral imperative I've heard is that we SHOULD NOT be the world's
police, that it is neither fair to ourselves or anyone else.  I think the
role of world police is more left over from times gone by than a goal of
the current times.

>I see the U.S. vice president saying "No I don't know that atheists
>should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered
>patriots. This is one nation under God."  This during his campaign,
>and he is later elected president.

Luckily, he wasn't running on that one issue.  The day the majority stand
behind a statement like that, I denounce my citizenship.

*>I doubt they (the Nazis)  were much more sick and twisted than most other
*>people.  Some descriptions (not detailed quoting, just my impressions) I've
*>seen talk about how it was a time of such a hurry, a time full of
*>problems - and to solve these problems drastic measures where needed.
*>People had their doubts about these measures, but they were told that
*>the problems are so bad they are necessary.  People thought "now, this
*>sounds bad, but it's just a small thing and nobody else seems that
*>bothered about it .. but I swear that if something big happens I'll be
*>the first to act about it".  And slowly, while things always were
*>happening in a hurry with little to time to think, things went as we
*>now know.

Read this last paragraph carefully.  I still don't agree that the US is
anything like pre-Nazi Germany, but some of the rationalizing above is
hauntingly familiar, and can be seen to flow with a morbid inevitability.
It would be only too easy, if things get really bad economically (and that
is entirely too possible), for us to fall into the same short-sighted,
gutless, demeaning traps.

We need to define and stand by our morals.  Realistic morals that apply to
a global community where the neighboring country may smoke grass, and we
drink booze, and we don't kill eachother over it.
-chria blask