NetNews Usenet Archive 1992 #27/NN_1992_27.iso/spool/misc/educatio/4398

Internet Message Format | 1992-11-19 | 3.1 KB

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Newsgroups: misc.education,alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,soc.women
Path: sparky!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!mojo.eng.umd.edu!clin
From: [e-mail] (Charles Lin)
Subject: Re: Racist/Sexist Role Models
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 92 21:55:27 GMT
Organization: College of Engineering, Maryversity von Uniland, College Park
Sender: [e-mail] (Charles C. Lin)
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Originator: [e-mail]
Lines: 45


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Stanford Guillory) writes:
>[e-mail] (Brian K. Yoder) writes:
>
>
>Using your logic, there is no possible solution to the problems minorities face
>in this country. If someone says that they want to increase the number of black
>engineers, then they are going to do something for blacks that they are not doing
>for whites. Bias is commonly used to solve  some of the country's problems. Seniority
>systems to help older workers, veteran preference to help former members of the
>armed forces get adjusted, and on and on. I think that sometimes, bias is an acceptable
>approach to solving a problem. And the problem of underachievement by minorities is a
>serious one that will have repercussions throughout the next century. You seem to think
>that the problem will just go away and if it doesn't, then that is too bad, because
>we can't do anything "special" to help.

    The question is whether such "bias" is ultimately effective.  For example,
if all black engineers who graduated last year were all hired, would this
be enough?    It may turn out that there are many more blacks (I have no stats)
who are poorer and/or less educated, and that since poor families may
give rise to poor children, then it may be, even under the most liberal
of hiring practices, the problem would still be there.

    The question is, therefore, what is the goal of preferential treatment?
Is it to create a percentage of engineers that is equivalent to the
racial or female percentages in society?   Do we have enough engineers
graduating that makes this even possible?   Even if the numbers increased
by this method, how effective is this in getting more students to go
into engineering.   How effective are "role" models?

    For example, if we hire all the black and all the women
engineers graduating today, and there are still problems attracting
minorities and women,  how we will explain the problem?   That not
enough is being done?   Perhaps there is a deep, underlying problem.
One could attribute it to racism, but one might also attribute it
to attitudes about learning science or engineering, or even in
learning at all.

    One ought to investigate all the possibilities of why something
is happening, rather than just taking the explanation that everyone
gives as the root of the problem.

--
Charles Lin
[e-mail]