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- Path: sparky!uunet!news.gtech.com!noc.near.net!news.centerline.com!matt
- From: matt@centerline.com (Matt Landau)
- Newsgroups: comp.windows.open-look
- Subject: Re: Cut/Paste in OWN and more
- Date: 20 Nov 1992 17:56:53 GMT
- Organization: CenterLine Software, Inc.
- Lines: 61
- Message-ID: <1ej8t5INN1g0@armory.centerline.com>
- References: <84050@ut-emx.uucp>
- NNTP-Posting-Host: 140.239.1.32
-
- In <84050@ut-emx.uucp> ich@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Ing-Chin Hwang) writes:
- >1. One of the most frequent window operations is select/copy in one
- >xterm and paste to another window, be it another xterm or a DECterm
- >from a remote VAX.
- >
- >The X convention seems to be but1/drag is selection and but2 is
- >paste.
-
- Actually, there is no such thing as "the X convention" for copy and paste
- operations. There are at least three or four different conventions for
- dealing with text operations, depending on the GUI style and toolkit you
- are using:
-
- * The Athena widgets convention, which is also used by xterm, is
- that left-drag selects a region and places it into the PRIMARY
- selection, while middle click copies in the contents of the
- PRIMARY selection (or CUT_BUFFER0, if the PRIMARY selection is
- empty) in at the current text insertion point.
-
- * Motif has a similar convention for using the PRIAMRY selection,
- except that middle click copies text in at the character position
- under the mouse pointer, even if the text insertion point is
- somewhere else. (Personally, I find this behavior *incredibly*
- annoying.)
-
- Motif also added one or two other conventions for copy and paste
- that use more persistent values, stored in the CLIPBOARD selection
- instead of the PRIMARY selection.
-
- * OPEN LOOK does not use the PRIAMRY-based left/middle convention
- at all, but uses an exclusively CLIPBOARD-based selection method
- where positive action is required to copy the selected text to
- the CLIPBOARD selection (ususally this means pressing the Copy
- key), and selections are persistent until explicitly replaced by
- a subsequent Copy operation.
-
- * Both OPEN LOOK and Motif (at least, as of Motif 1.2) also have
- direct-manipulation drag-and-drop interfaces for text editing.
-
- Completely interoperability requires that an application understand, or
- be able to understand, ALL of these conventions. It's not conceptually
- hard except for drag-and-drop (where the OPEN LOOK protocol is utterly
- Byzantine and the Motif protocol is undocumented, which is even worse
- than being Byzantine!), but it seems like very few application or GUI
- toolkit developers go to the trouble of getting all the corner cases
- right.
-
- >Often times before the paste, I need to click on the menu/title
- >bar of the another window to bring it up front. This will then
- >de-select the region I just select.
- >What's the best way to solve this problem?
-
- Well, you could use a focus-follows-pointer focus model in your window
- manager, so that you wouldn't have to direct input to it explcitly, or
- you could abandon the use of the left/middle mouse style of copy and
- paste and switch to using one of the persistent CLIPBOARD-based methods
- instead. You claim later that you don't want to do this, but it might
- be your best option.
- --
- Matt Landau Waiting for a flash of enlightenment
- matt@centerline.com in all this blood and thunder
-