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- Article 4741 of sci.physics:
- Path: dasys1!cucard!rocky8!cmcl2!rutgers!ucsd!ames!lll-winken!uunet!mcvax!cernvax!jon
- From: jon@cernvax.UUCP (jon)
- Newsgroups: sci.physics,sci.research,sci.space
- Subject: Electrochemically induced nuclear fusion
- Keywords: This IS for real
- Message-ID: <967@cernvax.UUCP>
- Date: 31 Mar 89 14:17:58 GMT
- Followup-To: sci.physics
- Organization: CERN, Geneva, Switzerland
- Lines: 95
- Xref: dasys1 sci.physics:4741 sci.research:664 sci.space:8407
- Posted: Fri Mar 31 09:17:58 1989
-
-
- This is a summary of a talk given by Professor Fleischmann at CERN, Geneva
- on Friday 31st March. I should point out that I am a computer programmer and
- not a physicist or a chemist, so therefore not all my understanding of the
- facts may be 100% correct, but I kept notes so hopfully the following will
- make some sense. Also this was strictly a scientific seminar, no questions
- were allowed on the non-scientific aspects of the talk. In fact the camera
- crews of various TV stations were asked to leave before the talk began.
- But they were given a chance to interview Professor Fleischmann after the
- seminar.
-
- It has taken Prof. Fleischmann and his collegue 5 years to get this far
- and they had hoped to keep the experiment secret for about another 18 months
- so they could be 100% certain of the results. But the results where "leaked"
- (This was news to me, any confirmation?), and then they had the "awful news
- conference", as he called it. They also funded the experiment privately
- because they didn't think anyone would give them money for such a mad idea.
-
- The equation in the at the palladium cathode is as follows
-
- D2O + e- <=> Dabs + OD-
-
- Dabs <=> Dlattice
-
- Dabs + D2O + e- <=> D2 + OD-
-
- Dabs = Absorbed Deuterium
-
- Dlattice = Deuterium in the Palladium lattice
-
- The deuterium in the lattice is very mobile.
-
- He then said something that I quite didn't understand and gave the figure
- of 0.8eV. I think this is the potential of the deuterium in the lattice.
- This 0.8eV is equivalent to a pressure of 10^27 atm for gaseous deuterium.
-
- The QM of the s-electron density of the Deuterium is VERY strange and is
- not understood.
-
- In the lattice the following nuclear reactions occur
-
- 2D + 2D -> 3T + 1H + 4.03MeV
-
- 2D + 2D -> 3He + n + 3.77Mev
-
- Their first experiment was with a palladium cube, this finished when the
- cube ignited, in the nuclear sense. The conclusion of this is that this
- reaction does not fail safe. When it starts to run hot it runs very hot.
- The cube almost burnt down their fume cupboard. But at least the effects
- are not quite as serious as a meltdown of a fission reactor.
-
- They then tried sheets before finally trying rods. These rods a 10cm long
- and have diameters of 1mm ,2mm and 4mm. The best results are with the 4mm rod
- therefore the reaction is dependent on volume as opposed to surface area, it
- also seems to be dependant on temperature.
-
- After 100 hours the measured output was 5MJ / cm3. They managed to detected
- neutrons, gamma-rays and 5 fold increase in the tritrium in the heavy water.
- They didn't manage to get a energy spectrum for the neutrons.
-
- They calulated there are 10^4 neutron producing events/sec but to account
- for the energy released there must be 10^13 events/sec, this means that
- the prefered reaction path does not produce neutrons. They do not know
- what this path is but lithium was being mentioned.
-
- The efficiency of their cell is "miserable" and their best result was 111%
- of breakeven (i.e. 100% => power in == power out), but they predicte that
- with a properly designed cell their efficiency could be over 1200%, i.e.
- 10 times out what you put in.
-
- It takes 3 months to charge a cell before it starts to produce anything.
-
-
- That's the end of my notes, now for some editorial comments.
-
- I personally could see nothing wrong with his explanation of the phenomena,
- there is no known chemical reaction which can produce the amounts of energy
- involved. It has to be nuclear fusion. Whether or not this is going to have
- any practical use is still to be seen, as Prof. Fleischmann said a lot of
- work now has to go into understand why and how this is happening. There
- were some very worried theoretical physicists leaving the hall after the
- talk, and there were mumbles about rewriting the theory of quantum mechanics.
-
- The are going to be a hell of a lot of papers on cold fusion in the next
- years!!
-
- *---------------------------------------------------------------*
- | |
- | Jon Caves {world}!mcvax!cernavx!jon |
- | Division DD, jon@cernvax.cern.ch |
- | CERN CH-1211, |
- | Geneva 23, "Quote? I haven't got time to think |
- | Switzerland. of a quote!" |
- | |
- *---------------------------------------------------------------*
-
-
- Article 4770 of sci.physics:
- Path: dasys1!cucard!rocky8!cmcl2!lanl!hc!pprg.unm.edu!unmvax!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!mailrus!cornell!uw-beaver!blake!oregon!rhaller
- From: rhaller@oregon.uoregon.edu
- Newsgroups: sci.physics
- Subject: differences between pons group and the byu group findings
- Message-ID: <524@oregon.uoregon.edu>
- Date: 1 Apr 89 10:45:57 GMT
- Organization: University of Oregon
- Lines: 45
- Posted: Sat Apr 1 05:45:57 1989
-
- I now think have a pretty clear picture of what happened. So far there are two
- independent discoveries that have been submitted for publication. I will call
- them the SLC and the BYU teams. The SLC team surfaced first in a news
- conference called on 3/23, I believe, by the Un. of Utah at their instigation,
- not the experimenters. See previous notices for more info. This is
- counter to normal scientific practice which is to wait until after formal
- publication.
-
- The BYU group instead kept a low profile following tradition, though there was
- a rumor that a press conference was called yesterday at MIT. This has not been
- confirmed on the net as of 9am today.
-
- Both teams report accelerated rates of fusion using similar apparatus.
- However, there is an extremely significant difference. The SLC team also
- reports lots of heat produced: 3-4 times as much as would be predicted from the
- observed rate of neutron emmission. In fact, if that amount of heat were to
- come from the same fusion reaction that they actually detected, there should
- have been 10**9 times as many neutrons and they would be dead men.
-
- The BYU team reports no such heat. They report the same numbers and energies
- as SLC of neutrons, et cetera, but no excess and unexpected heat. They also
- report no important difference between palladium and titanium as the negative
- electrode. However, the Pons seminar summary reports that Pons says that while
- they observed the neutron emmissions with 'other metals', only the palladium
- showed the excess heat. Another difference in the experiments that may or may
- not be important is that BYU used gold foil for the postive electrode while SLC
- used a coil of platinum surrounding a palladium rod (negative electrode). Also,
- in the electrolyte. Not enought detail published yet on the SLC electrolyte to
- tell.
-
- Another difference is that my reading of the BYU preprint leads me to conclude
- that their process stopped emitting neutrons after about 8 hours of operation
- and that it appears to have something to do with deposits forming on the
- negative electrodes. SLC on the other hand claims operations for extended
- periods with a net output of more energy than is put in.
-
- What does this all mean? It means that one of two things is true. Either SLC
- has discovered a new non-chemical process that generates heat and might
- therefor have commercial applications, or they have goofed somewhere and the
- heat is being produced by some chemical process. Speculation on the net
- includes oxidation of hydrogen produced by the electrolysis. Pons makes a case
- in the seminar summary that no known chemical or nuclear reactions can explain
- what they have found. Only time will tell. If it turns out to be a chemical
- process that is being in someway catalyzed by the concurrent cold fusion, it
- still might turn out to have commerical and cultural implications.
-
-