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P = pause/unpause, S = abort conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5187 05-25-88 17:08 (Read 116 times) from: LEE THOMPSON to: JON GRAY (Rcvd) subject: R: TURBO PASCAL Reply to #5124 Jon, Sorry I can't help you convert the code to TP4. What I can do is suggest some new code specially written for TP4. Two librarys for code that I have found to be excellent are 1) Turbo Professional v4.0 written by Turbo Power and 2) Boosters v4 by George F. Smith & Co. I think you will find everything you got from your book plus some new things in these librarys. I've seen ads for Turbo Pro 4 in a few magazines. For Turbo Boosters you have to contact George. Boosters started out as shareware. In fact you can find original versions written for Turbo 3 in the Pc-Sig collection right here on this board. Everything is now written in assembly and comes in a unit. If you need address's for either place let me know. I can come up with them. -Lee --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5203 05-26-88 20:57 (Read 112 times) from: JON GRAY to: PAUL ZIMMERMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: TURBO PASCAL Reply to #5179 Thanks Paul, I was afraid of that. I just thought I would find out before I went ahead and did the re-write. I still don't understand why the assembler code would'nt work. Or does that also rely on the workings of non-relocatable code ? Thanks - J. Gray >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5187 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5188 05-25-88 23:08 (Read 101 times) from: PHIL KATZ to: PAUL ZIMMERMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PATH LOADED Reply to #5178 Paul, A TSR can de-allocate it's COPY of the environment, but not the global environment. Since PKSFX 3.5 uses the argv[0] parameter under DOS 3.x (which is read from the end of the environment) I have received a few scattered reports of PKSFX failing when older TSR's are loaded. After tracking the problem down, I am relatively certain that these programs are fooling with what was "unallocated or reserved" memory under DOS 2.x, but is used in DOS 3.x for the drive/path stored after the environment. I have written my own TSR's that free their copy of the environment with no problems. The only other possibility is that these TSR's are taking over part of the EXEC loader or the memory allocation manager in DOS and not properly allocating or filling in the string after the environment. >Phil> --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5197 05-26-88 19:42 (Read 96 times) from: PAUL ZIMMERMAN to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PATH LOADED Reply to #5188 "Global Environment"??? You make it sound as if MS did something right... :-) Yes, I know that each program has it's own copy of the Env and that is the ONLY thing it can deallocate. But it is also the ONLY copy of the environment that will contain that program's EXEC string (once it is TSR'ed). So, if one is looking for the path a program is executed from that is the only copy that matters. (Unless the more exotic method you mention is used...) It is too bad that there is no documented (i.e. - SUPPORTED) method of accessing the "original" environment instead of a copy (of a copy of a copy.... ad nauseum). I am puzzled how a TSR could mess with the environment of ANOTHER program, though. That would take extremely tricky (and purposeful) programming, methinks. Why would someone do that? I suspect your second possibility is much more likely the cause. (I am not an experienced TSR programmer, but I have heard that there are ways to "manage"TSR status by keeping a few DOS functions like EXEC under surveillance...) Paul >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5188 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5200 05-26-88 19:40 (Read 103 times) from: JOE VINCENT to: PAUL ZIMMERMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PATH LOADED Reply to #5178 Paul, since TSRs DO contain a copy of the environment, I load all of my TSRs in my AUTOEXEC *before* I do my PATH and SET commands. IF you MUST load TSRs after your AUTOEXEC executes, it's a good idea to use MARK/RELEASE to put a MARK *below* your belatedly loaded TSR so that you can RELEASE the TSR later, when it's no longer needed. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5188 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5216 05-27-88 19:45 (Read 103 times) from: PAUL ZIMMERMAN to: JOE VINCENT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PATH LOADED Reply to #5200 That is a good idea for handling the old or not very well designed TSRs. It might be best to even wipe out COMSPEC before loading them & then restore it afterwards. Then the ENV might be "zero" even if it wasn't deallocated.... But a good TSR can drop its environment with a few lines of code. Just get the Env pointer out of the PSP and feed it to the DOS deallocate function! Paul >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5188 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5224 05-28-88 10:13 (Read 108 times) from: JOE VINCENT to: PAUL ZIMMERMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PATH LOADED Reply to #5216 You're right, Paul, it's easy for a TSR to drop its environment. The problem is that we don't write every TSR we use -- we're dependent on what the author has done. Rather than attempt to figure out whether a given TSR drops its environment or not, I load them before I load my environment. Interesting point about doing COMSPEC later on, as well. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5188 reply #4 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5189 05-25-88 23:17 (Read 115 times) from: PHIL KATZ to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MICROSOFT BUGS MAS Reply to #5180 Tom, Have you seen the latest issue of Dr. Dobbs Journal?? They review a half dozen or so "optimizing" C compilers, and test several different types of optimizations and how well each compiler performed at each. Not suprisingly, MSC 5.0 blew away Turbo C in nearly every test. Granted, if you like wimpy integrated environments, Turbo C is nicer to use than Quick C, but if you want a compiler that produces professional quality code, MSC is hard to beat. Suprisingly, the only compiler that gave MSC any competition was WATCOM C. Furthermore, no one writes bug free code. The more complex the application, the odds of minor subtle bugs appearing increases exponentially. What debugging tools do you have with Turbo C? PRINTF!!?? Come on! Hopefully Borland will be able to come out with a debugger for Turbo C soon, and an OS/2 compiler for Turbo C, if they are to stay in the C business. >Phil> --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5190 05-25-88 23:37 (Read 111 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MICROSOFT BUGS MAS Reply to #5189 Phil, see latest issue of Computer Languages - good comments there on WATCOM C. Looks like a real good package for much less $$$ than MSC. And certainly functionally and performancewise, very competitive. By the way, there is a way to use COdeview with TC (for the stubborn and CHEEP, like me) - and that is MS ASM w/codeview and compiling TC with the ASM source output option. I don't call it great - but it is quite usable. BTW, are you now ready to kiss the good ol' .COM files good bye with only a minor tear? Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5189 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5191 05-25-88 23:47 (Read 106 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: CHARLES PERRIN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MICROSOFT BUGS MAS Reply to #5182 Charles, your point 2) on AT&T is a very apt description of UNIX - let's add "fumble fingers" to the noise - and sqAWK - you have the picture!. GE >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5189 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5192 05-26-88 00:38 (Read 110 times) from: PHIL KATZ to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MICROSOFT BUGS MAS Reply to #5190 Grant, When I saw that WATCOM C can pass parameters to subroutines in registers, I started to drool! While I know very little about WATCOM C, it does look very, very interesting. Anyway, I have come to learn to live with .EXE files. The next version of PKARC/PKXARC will be .EXE files. My only concern is that everyone who has older PKARC.COM and PKXARC.COM files will simply copy PKARC.EXE and PKXARC.EXE v3.6 files into the same directory. When they type in PKARC, the .COM file will run and NOT the EXE. I know that even if I put this in triple bold blinking 72 point size letters in the documentation, that someone will miss it and call me asking why PKARC 3.6 says PKARC 3.5 . . . . >Phil> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5189 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5194 05-26-88 05:17 (Read 109 times) from: CHARLES PERRIN to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MICROSOFT BUGS MAS Reply to #5190 I wish WATCOM would bring out a FORTRAN compiler for the same price.... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5189 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5195 05-26-88 05:21 (Read 107 times) from: CHARLES PERRIN to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MICROSOFT BUGS MAS Reply to #5192 Go down their PATH on a search and destroy mission. (Put it into a customized version of PKX??A??.EXE which is your PKSFX code slightly modified.....) Send out a message that "WARNING: OBSOLETE PKWARE DETECTED!!!!!!" and if they don't delete it, they only have themselves to blame!!!!! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5189 reply #5 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5199 05-26-88 19:45 (Read 102 times) from: PAUL ZIMMERMAN to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MICROSOFT BUGS MAS Reply to #5180 I *like* that observation.... It is totally true, I think. You use a debugger to poke around in someone ELSE'S code, you use printing & breaks & drivers, etc. to debug your own stuff. Still, CodeView has its uses. Just think what you can learn about MS own compiler libraries with it... Paul >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5189 reply #6 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5201 05-26-88 19:46 (Read 109 times) from: JOE VINCENT to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MICROSOFT BUGS MAS Reply to #5180 Tom, I put bugs in programs through errors rather than ignorance. If you program in mixed language environments (e.g., writing portions of a program in MSC, QB 4.0 and Assembly) and never make a mistake subtle enough to require Codeview or another comparable debugger, I salute you. I've been in the computer business for nearly 30 years and have seen many a cocky programmer crash and burn. If you had been around when we still used coding pads, I'll bet you would have coded your programs in ink. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5189 reply #7 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5205 05-26-88 23:39 (Read 108 times) from: TOM FELLER to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MICROSOFT BUGS MAS Reply to #5189 As far as the fastest code MSC usualy is faster than turboC. However, TurboC always produces a smaller EXE file and smaller run time code. With the current 640K limit the smaller code has a edge over a slightly faster code. If you look at the June issue of Dr. Dobb's you will see a Turbo C beat MSC 5.0 in compile time, object code size, execution size and link time and execute time! For a Heap sort the break down is: TC 1.5 MSC 5.0 Compile 4.7sec 16.3 sec + link 7.4sec 19.5sec run 10.5sec 15.5sec .OBJ 1119 1313 .EXE 6392 7891 So, TurboC was the winner! I also hear that Borland will have a debugger in months. I also contend that OS/2 will not become popular for another year or so. With the DRAM prices going up almost every day, the average user will never see OS/2. Many companies will also think twice before they spend lots of money for a operating system with almost no applications. Also most software houses will continue to support MS-DOS if they want to stay in business. Thus, until applications that are only available on OS/2 surpass the DOS applications, I see no reason to get it. As for the debugger that comes with QuickC , I hear it has bugs. A letter in DDJ said: "The Quick C debugger developed a case of frozen screen with funny looking symbols .. appearing at random". I wonder if Code View is any better. As for using Code View for every bug that pops up. I think it would be foolish to slow down your debugging process by doing so. I admit that for the more difficult bugs it may be usefull, if it avoids "funny looking symbols". Well thats it, I'm all talked out, any reply?? Tom Feller >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5189 reply #8 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5206 05-26-88 23:44 (Read 104 times) from: PAT SHEA to: JOE VINCENT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MICROSOFT BUGS MAS Reply to #5201 Joe... 'sorry to butt in on this, but I'm just glad to hear from/about someone of my vintage in this business. I personally think that the best 'bugging environment that ever existed was the IBM 650... you could ALWAYS tell zactly where it was and what it was doin' and do retrofit on the fly from the console. BTW... did you start in BCPL also ??? pat shea >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5189 reply #9 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5207 05-26-88 23:53 (Read 105 times) from: TOM FELLER to: JOE VINCENT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MICROSOFT BUGS MAS Reply to #5201 Why do you use QB 4.0?? I think Basic should be removed from the face of the earth. It is a recalcitrant language that contains GOTO statements. I would need a debugger if I had the ignorance to use basic. With the spaghetti code thats produced with that primitive language, its a wonder that you can follow it at all. Anyone who has worked in basic is in danger being brain dammaged. However, you can program in assembly, if you need to, and link it into TurboC. And you can also interface TurboC with Turbo Pascal and Turbo Prolog for AI applications. I would not program in Basic if that was the only language available. I would find another profession! So, why on earth do you use Basic? (yucch) >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5189 reply #10 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5208 05-27-88 01:42 (Read 105 times) from: CHARLES PERRIN to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MICROSOFT BUGS MAS Reply to #5207 The "recalcitrant" language CONTAINS the GOTO statement but that does NOT mandate its use. It generates quite good code (Quick Basic 4.0) and has the advantage of having a separate run-time module (thereby NOT cluttering the disk with huge .EXE files!). If you can recover from your arrogance, borrow a QB4 manual and note the functionality. It does all the things a C compiler will do AFTER you get a few hundred $$$ of libraries to work the deficiencies of the C compiler.... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5189 reply #11 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5210 05-27-88 02:34 (Read 119 times) from: PHIL KATZ to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MICROSOFT BUGS MAS Reply to #5205 Tom, I own Turbo C, MSC, and even Lattice C. I have compiled many programs, and MSC generates consistently smaller code. MSC performs redundant code elimination, which Turbo C does not. Take for example, the following switch() statement: switch (i) { case 37: corbinate(); printf("Hi Mom"); do_massive_calcs(x,y,z,20*g/3.14159,gmtime()); break; case 119: reformat_disk(); do_massive_calcs(x,y,z,20*g/3.14159,gmtime()); break; case 666: self_destruct(); break; } Turbo C will not optimize this code at all, even though the tail portions of the first two cases are identical. MSC will generate one call to do_massive_calcs, and jump to this call in the second case. This type of redundant code removal is not limited to switch() statements either. I have seen MSC apply this in nested control structures such as while, do-while, and if-then-else statements as well. While the above example is somewhat contrived, I have seen MSC apply this type of optimization on code where redundancy wasn't apparent at all in the source code. Turbo C doesn't even come close to MSC's loop optimizations either. I have seen MSC use not only enregister variables in SI and DI like Turbo does, but MSC also uses BX,CX and DX if possible. When developing PKARC/PKXARC 3.6 I tried using both Turbo C and MSC. Since the parts of PKxxxx that have to be FAST! are written in assembly anyway, what I was looking for was smallest possible code generated. MSC 5.0 generated 5-15% smaller code than Turbo C in all cases. I don't hate Turbo C or anything, and think for most applications it is a nice compiler. However, Borland has a little ways to go before they create a complete, professional system. On the other hand, Turbo C is ideal for hobbyists. I guess it depends what you're doing. >Phil> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5189 reply #12 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5211 05-27-88 18:55 (Read 106 times) from: THOMAS ATKINSON to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MICROSOFT BUGS MAS Reply to #5207 I remember reading in some mag that QB was going to be the job control language for OS/2. That would be one heck of a batch language. The mini computers i work on do have a control language that could be compared to basic easily... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5189 reply #13 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5213 05-27-88 19:11 (Read 104 times) from: JOE VINCENT to: PAT SHEA (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MICROSOFT BUGS MAS Reply to #5206 Pat, I started out in 1960 on an IBM 650 using SOAP (Symbolic Optimum Assembly Program). Actually, I was a little bit "pre-SOAP," since we "hand optimized" our first programs -- remember calculating how far the drum would rotate while executing an instruction of a particular type and then placing your next instruction at the point the drum read-write head would reach by then? Today, I'm using MASM 5.1, MSC 5.1, QB 4.0 and Codeview for most of my non-daytime software work. Also have TB, TC, True BASIC, Quick C and a host of other stuff plus shelfware. Would I go back to the "good old days?" Ha, ha, ha, ha, <snort> ha, ha, ha, ha! You've got to be insane! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5189 reply #14 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5215 05-27-88 19:44 (Read 102 times) from: TOM FELLER to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MICROSOFT BUGS MAS Reply to #5210 So why do all the benchmarks I see show TC to produce smaller code than MSC 5.0. Maybe in the small or tiny model MSC 5.0 is smaller. But for large model programs I have seen MSC 5.0 is always larger. Another problem with MSC is its new Hercules graphics support. I hear it requires a special TSR to run. TurboC requires so such "help". Now how about this new operating system from microsoft. The OS/2 developers kit comes with a plethora of manuals that would make any programmer cringe. I know, our company has it. We must have more than 25 manuals for the thing with new shipments comming regularly. I have heard that a program took 2 programmer years to convert to windows. And the presentation manager is even worse with its bit mapped graphics. Also there are no fewer than 200 known bugs to work around. I guess thats what Code View is for! Also micorsoft recommends using dedicated computer for OS/2. Is this to prevent the bugs from infecting other computers? You better have lots of hard disk space ready for this thing because it takes a wopping 20 Meg for the kit. Add EGA and 3 Meg of DRAM to the $3000.00 price of the kit and your talking some big bucks. So how about a PM version of pkarc, what do you say? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5189 reply #15 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5217 05-27-88 19:46 (Read 104 times) from: TOM FELLER to: THOMAS ATKINSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MICROSOFT BUGS MAS Reply to #5211 Whats QB? Quarter Back?? For VAX?? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5189 reply #16 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5219 05-27-88 20:00 (Read 107 times) from: TOM FELLER to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MICROSOFT BUGS MAS Reply to #5191 Look at OS/2 and UNIX looks like a dream come true. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5189 reply #17 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5220 05-27-88 23:31 (Read 103 times) from: CHARLES PERRIN to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MICROSOFT BUGS MAS Reply to #5215 You are correct about the TSR. On the other hand, load it once and forget it's there. (That is what Microsoft, in its infinite wisdom, created AUTOEXEC.BAT for.....) >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5189 reply #18 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5221 05-28-88 00:29 (Read 107 times) from: PHIL KATZ to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MICROSOFT BUGS MAS Reply to #5215 Tom, What do I say!! OS/2 - Just say NO! >Phil> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5189 reply #19 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5223 05-28-88 10:07 (Read 108 times) from: JOE VINCENT to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MICROSOFT BUGS MAS Reply to #5207 Oh, swell; another best/worst language on earth discussion. I know that the guys in this conference will be thrilled. We haven't had such a discussion for, oh, two or three months, now. A long time since we've had a dyed-in-the-wool language bigot here, too. My favorite-language-of-all-time-if-I-had-to-pick-one-for-the-rest-of-my- life? PL/1. Second choice would be "C". Why program in QB 4.0 at all? Two reasons: clients who insist on it and development of software which has to interface to QB 4.0. To me, QB 4.0 is just another arrow in my quiver, not something to which I'm attached by either emotion or zealotry. Based on your comments about QB 4.0, it's apparent that you don't know much about it. It has procedures and functions which can be compiled into a module and placed into a library. It has SELECT/CASE and all of the other structured stuff. It doesn't use line numbers, although it tolerates them if they're there. It's easy to write truly structured programs, devoid of those horrible GOTOs. O.K., Tom, now open up and tell us how you REALLY feel. <grin> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5189 reply #20 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5227 05-29-88 18:26 (Read 104 times) from: PAT SHEA to: JOE VINCENT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MICROSOFT BUGS MAS Reply to #5213 Joe..... 'guess I gotcha by a couple of yrs <not many>, but I started my hacking career @ the Univ of Rochester (NY state) in the mid '50s and I DO remember the drum timeing trick well when Ur trying to eak out that last little bit on optimizing. Coincidentally, you and I both use the same bag of tools (MASM, MSC & QB). An ex-wife from many yrs ago was a Bell Lab'er so I got into C and its parent languages very early in the 70's .... manybe even in the late sixties. I rather enjoy all of the talk that I read relative to one language vs. another, etc. As a sort of a grandfather in this business, my personal experience has been that I write an application in whatever I can get the damned thing runnin' in the fastest, just to see if my logic is sound and if in fact I CAN solve the problem. Once I know that, I start to optimize and rewrite in whatever I have to to get the speed and code siz that I want or that the application needs. That's what I like 'bout the MS family of languages. Mixing and matching routines from different lang's is a snap! Unfortunately, with there new 'dos-call' functions and the way that they have made inter-language calling so easy, they have sorta obsoleted a bag of tricks that it took me YEARS to figger out and build for myself. best regards and keep hackin' pat shea >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5189 reply #21 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5232 05-29-88 20:28 (Read 111 times) from: TOM FELLER to: JOE VINCENT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MICROSOFT BUGS MAS Reply to #5223 If a client insists on BASIC (why?) I may consider doing a small project for them. I guess the client is always right, even if they are wrong. Heck, I would even consider doing a small project in COBOL. As long as I did not have to program in BASIC or COBOL all the time, I would do it. I am happy to see that you prefer "C" to BASIC. And I will admit that the new BASIC compilers are almost-as-good-as "C". That's what I really think. >Tom Feller> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5189 reply #22 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5237 05-29-88 23:54 (Read 113 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MICROSOFT BUGS MAS Reply to #5192 Phil, there was a benchmark comparison of WATCOM C, MSC, TC, others in PC Tech Journal --- looks like WATCOM C. took more prizes than any of the others. I know the Waterloo folks from their excellent mainframe products, the IBM G-Assembler (long the stnd sophisticated macro processor for the 370 mainframe - until IBM did the one thing they do well, and came out with the H assembler - a long time later), and their Fortran compiler, among others. Their mainframe C benchmarks in the margin of the Lattice C conversion to 370 Mainframe (supported by SAS). I think I'm going to take them up on their introductory offer ... 1st time I've been seriously tempted to jump off the Borland bandwagon. Maybe you should divergke from MSC and try the same (remember, passes parameters thru registers!). Grant p/s - just in case I was ambiguous on the one thing IBM does well - technically, that is, - IBM does darn good assemblers. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5189 reply #23 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5238 05-29-88 23:57 (Read 113 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MICROSOFT BUGS MAS Reply to #5219 Tom, OS/2 is an IBM game with us - out to put development of serious software exclusively in the hands of the established corporations - and MS is party to the crime - and unix is the other end of a nightmare! Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5189 reply #24 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5239 05-30-88 17:32 (Read 109 times) from: JOE VINCENT to: PAT SHEA (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MICROSOFT BUGS MAS Reply to #5227 Pat, it's nice to find SOMEONE who has been in the computing field longer than I have. I have to laugh when programmers consider themselves veterans because they've been in computing "from the beginning" when they really mean that they got in in 1982, when the first IBM PC was announced. By 1982, we had already been through three generations of computers and were ready for another! Yeah, "best" language discussions are as old as computing. Like you, I still do Q & D programming in an easy language to prove a concept and then move on to a more elegant approach for the final product. Best regards to you. I'll stop hacking when they put me six feet under. It's still the most fun you can have with your clothes on. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5189 reply #25 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5241 05-30-88 18:07 (Read 112 times) from: PAT SHEA to: JOE VINCENT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MICROSOFT BUGS MAS Reply to #5239 Amen !!! pat s. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5189 reply #26 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5245 05-31-88 01:07 (Read 114 times) from: PHIL KATZ to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MICROSOFT BUGS MAS Reply to #5237 Grant, Yes, I read the review of WATCOM C in PC Tech Journal, and it looked VERY impressive. It definitely might be worth looking into. >Phil> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5189 reply #27 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5289 06-04-88 22:31 (Read 109 times) from: EDWARD MARCH to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MICROSOFT BUGS MAS Reply to #5245 Well check out "computer language" june 1988 for a watcom c review actually the review compares turbo-c msc and watcom and come out OK for watcom but the winner is TURBO C I agree, I had turboc for a year, and Id NEVER use MSC again !!! Im look at editors BRIEF vs PI or VEDIT or PIZZA any sugestions ? Im leaning towards BRIEF or PI since PIZZA is too new and I wasnt impressed with the VEDIT demo disk ! but ive seen brief 1.33 in action last year... --ed-- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5189 reply #28 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5193 05-26-88 03:55 (Read 97 times) from: LARRY EDWARDS to: ALL subject: MIX POWER-C Has anyone tried the Mix Power-C compiler?? I gave up the old Mix-C compiler for Turbo-C, but really miss the Mix C-Trace debugger (it's terrific!). Power-C sounds hot from what little the ads about it say. How does it compare in functionality to Turbo-C? --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5196 05-26-88 10:44 (Read 96 times) from: MARK GINSBERG to: ALL subject: ACTIVE PC DRIVES Hey gang, I'd appreciate some help with this. How does a program running on a PC (or compatable) calculate a list of active drives? Example, my machine has floppies A and B, a hard disk cut into sections D,E,F and a ram drive G. If software I write is run on a less amply endowed machine, or a more amply endowed network, what is the intelligent way to figure out what the resources are? Anyway, you catch my drift... Mark --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5209 05-27-88 02:11 (Read 100 times) from: PHIL KATZ to: MARK GINSBERG (Rcvd) subject: R: ACTIVE PC DRIVES Reply to #5196 Mark, DOS function call 0EH returns the number of drives in the system. This is the "select disk" call where you pass the drive you want to become the current drive in DL, where 0=A, 1=B etc. On return, AL contains the highest drive in the system. You can read the current drive with call 19H, which returns the current drive in AL. >Phil> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5196 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5247 05-31-88 17:28 (Read 102 times) from: MARK GINSBERG to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: R: R: ACTIVE PC DRIVES Reply to #5209 >Phil> Yeah... By alternating between "select new drive" and "what is the current drive" dos calls, it is easy to pick up active drives even if there is a hole in the series. (ex. A through F, but not G) Have you ever seen a system that gracefully handles the default directory on which you land as you change drives from within an application? For instance, in a pull down menu situation, one option is change directories, another is, change drives. Or should they be one option? or what? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5196 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5198 05-26-88 19:36 (Read 98 times) from: JOE VINCENT to: TIM NESHAM (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MSC 5.1 Reply to #5174 Tim, another thing to watch with the new MS editor, M.EXE -- if you have the "backup" option set to "undel" (which is the default value), a copy of any file which is edited will be placed in a HIDDEN subdirectory! This means that, if you're editing one or more large files, your disk space will disappear at a rapid rate and you won't be able to see why. To reveal the hidden subdirectories, use a utility which is capable of "seeing" hidden files. If you don't want this "feature," change the "backup" text switch to "none" or "bak". If most users are like me, they'll fire up M.EXE to see what it will do without reading the documentation from cover to cover. Since "undel" is the DEFAULT, there are probably quite a few new users of M who are wondering what has happened to their disk space. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5202 05-26-88 20:31 (Read 101 times) from: TIM NESHAM to: JOE VINCENT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MSC 5.1 Reply to #5198 Joe, I haven't as yet been able to watch my disk space slide into the tar pit but I did notice that M left a file on my diskette after I defaulted to a:. It was a small directory for the editor. The documentation says that the editor will usually delete the files that are unecessary after the editing session. One gets the impression that Microsoft expects everyone to have unlimited resources. Megs and Megs of Ram and disk space. Tim >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5198 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5218 05-27-88 19:55 (Read 101 times) from: TOM FELLER to: TIM NESHAM (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MSC 5.1 Reply to #5202 I agree with your observation about microsoft expecting everyone to have unlimited resources. Just look at OS/2... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5198 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5222 05-28-88 08:26 (Read 101 times) from: TIM NESHAM to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MSC 5.1 Reply to #5218 Tom, I feel there may be a more subtle agenda behind the OS/2 machinations. The average home-programmer would not, could not afford OS/2. I mean, I finally get the computer that satisfies my programming appetite (386) with 1.5 meg of RAM and 40 meg of disk space and along comes OS/2 laughing at my configuration as some sort of dwarf. The chance to do stuff that may ruin the OS/2 environment is reduced by the fact that the virus makers wouldn't afford the OS/2 stuff. The OS/2 world moves into a new level of arrogance as in the case of some programmer getting experience at 'home'. Then the inevitable question arrives - "do you know OS/2"? Oops, no job. I should have gone out a dumped 10,000 bucks to 'know' OS/2. COBOL is the same way. A COBOL compiler costs a glob of money. You say BASIC is retarded. COBOL takes it a step further. The MIS people are screaming for COBOL programmers with 2 or more years experience on a particular system. What if your experience is in 'C' or Assembler? Sorry, it isn't COBOL. Give me a break. When are they going to learn that the particular language and system is simply a different set of rules. All that a programmer needs to know is the particular syntax. I'll take anyone who DOES NOT know COBOL but understands how to program versus someone who knows COBOL but doesn't understand programming, anyday! Tim Nesham >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5198 reply #3 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5214 05-27-88 19:38 (Read 103 times) from: PAUL ZIMMERMAN to: JON GRAY (Rcvd) subject: R: R: TURBO PASCAL Reply to #5203 As I say, if the assembler code relies on modifying the run-time library it cannot possibly succeed with an utterly different code structure. A great many inline goodies for TP 3 would tinker with "magic" locations in the 10k of code that was ALWAYS cloned off with any .com file.. There are also differences in the implementation of many "standard" functions so that even if they are present in a compiled program the old machine language just doesn't coordinate any more. I have discovered that the old way to install ISR's just won't work with TP4. The chain back to the original interrupt must be arranged in a completely different way. (Fortunately supplied by Borland in a Turbo Technix article about making a keyboard ISR...) With optimization comes total unpredictability of the locations & order of the compiler supplied functions. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5225 05-28-88 17:22 (Read 102 times) from: JOE KNAPP to: ALL subject: MS MOUSE INTERRUPTS Does anyone know if there is an interrupt which I can use to check the current Microsoft Mouse cursor range? I know how to set the range, but I can't find any way to simply return the current settings. RE: QB4 discussions, I tried to use QB4 several times now but ran into serious limitations on code size for individual modules. If you have a main program much larger than 60K, QB4 will choke on it. With QB3 I could have modules as large as 130K before running into this problem. I don't understand why these programs can't compile, since the resulting executable program would easily fit into the code segment. Is everyone using QB4 aware that there is a "bug fix" available now called "Version 4.00b" ??? You can order it from Microsoft for free if you already own the "broken" version. Anyone out there working with any music/speech digitizing boards or software? I am looking for a way to store short bits of music in fair quality on a hard disk and recall them in an ordered sequence. Joe Knapp A-Ware Software 414-784-2723 --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5226 05-29-88 10:41 (Read 99 times) from: ANDY WHITCROFT to: MARK TELLIER (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: PROGRAMMER'S EDITORS Dear Mark et. al., I need the collective advice of the staff of programmers out there. This is because I need a program editor, mine are serverily lacking in nice programming features. I want to know what you use, and more importantly, WHY you use it. We all know that editor are a bit like programming language bais's. What I would like the editor to be capible of is as follows: Macro language, windows for working with multiple files or differant parts of the same file, settable color, capible of copping with unlimited code size (no 64k limit), easy to remember commands (perferibly no menus poping up every time I want to do something, fast response, online help, and not outragously expensive! Andy. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5229 05-29-88 18:56 (Read 102 times) from: MARK TELLIER (LEADER) to: ANDY WHITCROFT (Rcvd) subject: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITORS Reply to #5226 Andy, I personally use a editor by the name of VEDIT PLUS. I believe its cost is in the $200.00 range (I need to check recent literature to be sure). I like it mostly because it resembles the EDT editor I really like on VAX/VMS systems. I have briefly looked at QEDIT, and was somewhat impressed. I have never used it in a real application. I have also followed a few conversations on this BBS relating to EMACS. Almost all have given this editor high ratings. Again, no personal experience. Like you say in your message, this topic should provoke plenty of response. I'd like to hear some other opinions myself. - mwt - >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5230 05-29-88 20:14 (Read 100 times) from: TOM FELLER to: MARK TELLIER (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5229 I also use VEDIT PLUS at work and I think its great. You can create windows and text buffers like mad! In fact sometimes I suprise myself when I decide to get out, and I find all the files I looked at or updated. I also like the macros that enable it to do almost any thing you could want. We somtimes use the macros to do data conversions for customers and the speed is great. It also has a DOS shell, of course. While editing a file if you want to edit another file in a window all you have to do is <ALT>-N and then enter the file name, thats it! VEDIT creates a window using the bottom half of the screen. You can also go through a longer procedure if you want to define the size and location of the window. >Tom Feller> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5234 05-29-88 21:42 (Read 100 times) from: ANDY WHITCROFT to: MARK TELLIER (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5229 Dear Mark, I would like to know why you like VEDIT PLUS, is it easy to remember commands, does it do windows, will it support a mouse, are there limits about the size of file one can edit, is there a macro language . . .. Andy. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5240 05-30-88 17:40 (Read 102 times) from: JOE VINCENT to: ANDY WHITCROFT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5234 Andy, if you're looking for an excellent programmer's editor and don't want to spend a lot of money but do want a commercial product, buy a copy of MASM 5.1 for about $90 and use the editor ("M") which is being distributed with MASM 5.1 and MSC 5.1. It's fully configurable (in fact, initialization files to make it behave like Epsilon, Brief or the QC edit environment come with it), has full macro capability and is the equal of products selling for several hundred dollars. It appears to be based on EMACS, which is available as a download from this BBS. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5242 05-30-88 19:45 (Read 102 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: ANDY WHITCROFT (Rcvd) subject: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITORS Reply to #5226 Andy, I use Qedit. It has a macro language that can even call DOS and execute the compiler for the current file. It's very fast. File size is limited by main memory, typically 400-500k. The keystrokes can be configured to anything you want. There is the ability to have a one screen help or you can configure a macro that opens another window and edits a help file. Windows are limited to 8 on the screen but an unlimited number of files can be in memory at a time. Most everything in the program can be configured. Best part is that the program is only one file so it can be put on the path and loaded from anywhere. It's available in the Mahoney collection (current version is 2.06). Registration is only $39. Sammy Mitchell, the programs author, is very willing to add thing the users want. If you try the program and like it, please send in the registration. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #5 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5243 05-30-88 23:11 (Read 97 times) from: ANDY WHITCROFT to: JOE VINCENT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5240 Dear Joe, I have recently seen messages on this BBS indicating that 1 of the files needed to run that editor was missing from someones package. Would you like to report on your reaction to this possible problem. And, what about Qedit or Blackbeard? Andy. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #6 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5244 05-30-88 23:17 (Read 99 times) from: ANDY WHITCROFT to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5242 Dear Glen, I downloaded Qedit today and will look at it over the next week or so. However, I am curious how one would go about making a macro that will automatically enter the 6 dight line number a COBOL compiler looks for in it's source, perferably numbered in sequential order. And for that matter is it possible to write a macro to renumber the source? I am also curious about your opinion of Blackbeard? Andy. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #7 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5246 05-31-88 12:21 (Read 102 times) from: MARK TELLIER (LEADER) to: ANDY WHITCROFT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5234 Andy, See Tom Feller's message number 5230 for a good list of reasons why I like VEDIT PLUS. Mostly, I started using Vedit because it is the closest thing to the EDT editor on the VAX/VMS systems I used to use. I learned and used the EDT editor for everything and became really familiar with it, hence my like of Vedit. - mwt - >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #8 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5251 06-01-88 16:45 (Read 95 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: ANDY WHITCROFT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5244 Andy, COBOL!!! Yuchhh, but I understand one has to make a living. Right off, I can't think of a way to enter or renumber COBOL source lines. I'll check with Sammy and see if there's a way or if he's might be interested in adding that capability. I took a quick look at Blackbeard but since I was using QEdit at the time, I didn't see any advantages for me at the time. As you look through QEdit, you'll find that the program is better than the documentation. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #9 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5253 06-02-88 00:09 (Read 97 times) from: TOM FELLER to: ANDY WHITCROFT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5234 VEDIT PLUS does have a macro language. It also has a file size that is as large as your hard disk! I know, we have used it to do data conversions on multi megabyte files with no problem. You can configure it to act like other editors including Wordstar (blah). In it's normal mode the commands are very easy to recall. <ALT>-F for file stuff, a one line menu at the top of the screen. <ALT>-W for window stuff, Create, Delete, Switch, Zoom <ALT>-B for buffer stuff, copy, move... <ALT>-N new file <ALT>-J jump, Home, marker,... <ALT>-H go home, top of file <ALT>-Z goto end of file <F2>-Search <ALT><F2>-search and replace I guess search could be better but most commands are very easy to learn. I'm addicted to it. I wish the TURBOC environment had a better editor, but for syntax errors and a quick fix the TurboC editor is ok. The fast compile and link is what I like, but thats another story. I have seen a very short demo of M and the function keys are used for lots of stuff. The keys were less intuitive for me, but I use VEDIT all the time so I'm biased. *Tom Feller* >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #10 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5256 06-02-88 08:28 (Read 93 times) from: ANDY WHITCROFT to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5251 Dear Glen, I have noticed that qedit will enter numbers, but there is no way th specify the format of the numbers to be entered. And you are right, the program is better than the doc's. In a couple more days I will look at Blackbread. Andy. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #11 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5259 06-02-88 17:21 (Read 92 times) from: JOE VINCENT to: ANDY WHITCROFT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5243 cc: GENE ALM Andy, I'm not recommending EMACS -- just thought you might like to test drive a configurable programmer's editor for free. I downloaded EMACS in C source form just to give a couple of C compilers a workout, but never really used EMACS. If, as you say, others have tried to use it and found a file missing, it's not worth the effort. Gene Alm used to tout EMACS. Any comments, Gene? I saw Glen's message about Qedit; it sounds very much like MS's "M" and Brief. If someone gives a shareware product a good review, it's worth a look. I'm pleased with "M" so far, but I'm still learning. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #12 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5265 06-03-88 07:45 (Read 96 times) from: TIM NESHAM to: JOE VINCENT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5240 cc: ANDY WHITCROFT cc: TOM FELLER Joe, M from microsoft is a nice editor but it has an annoying habit of writing to the hard disk when I'm in AutoCADD. AutoCADD allows me to enter the editor during a drawing session. But when I'm in the editor M thru AutoCADD, M.exe writes to the hard disk with EVERY CURSOR movement - slowing it down considerably. I use VEDIT PLUS in AutoCADD. So far everything pales in comparison. I've used QEDIT but it can't mark blocks less than a line. If they would change just that I would buy it. Tim >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #13 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5267 06-03-88 08:07 (Read 92 times) from: ANDY WHITCROFT to: TIM NESHAM (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5265 Dear Tim, The latest ver of qedit (2.06) will mark blocks less than an entire line. If you have an earlier ver you might want too take another look. Andy. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #14 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5269 06-03-88 11:49 (Read 95 times) from: GENE ALM to: JOE VINCENT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5259 Joe, Good greeeef!! Which editor is . . . Which language is . . . Well, here goes my OPINIONS. But before I do that, I must recognize the fact that >Phil> is softening on .EXE versus .COM files. Can OS/2 be far behind? I use BRIEF. I have many of them (EMACS, QEDIT, Blackbeard, M, SPSS and others). The way I evaluate a product is to put all of them on the system and see which one rises to the top. There is little that I cannot do with BRIEF. Type BRIEF *.c and BRIEF loads each c source file in the directory in a unique window. You can cut and paste anything to anything. You can mark anything from a single character to the entire file and save it, cut it, paste it, trash it or ignore it. You can indent and outdent blocks (good for structure level changing). The only reason that I have M on my system is that it is the only editor that supports (for now) OS/2 and I have the OS/2 versions of the MS languages. Through BRIEF's macro language, you can make the editor do ANYTHING. As a simple example, I wrote a macro to date-time stamp a source file and show it as a comment (language dependent) with NO operator intervention. Nice for updates. With BRIEF, who needs EMACS. But let me say that if I didn't have BRIEF, I would PROBABLY use EMACS. It is an extremely powerful editor and is macro-programmable. It to is capable of ANYTHING. The only shortcoming is that the documentation is not nearly as good as that of BRIEF. I have successfully compiled EMACS using both TurboC 1.5 and MSC. If you would like a copy, let me know. I used QEDIT before I got BRIEF and found it entirely adequate. But as you all know, it is easy to get spoiled. I haven't used Blackbeard but have given it to many and have had excellent feedback. A couple of people even registered it. I did. It's surely the greatest software bargain in the world. I'm a bit disappointed in M. The BRIEF emulation is bad. I suspect other emulations are not much better. But as I said, I'm spoiled. The only problem with BRIEF is that when they clean out bugs, they consider it an update and charge for it. As an example, I updated from v1.33 to 2.0 for $50. To update to 2.01 would have cost me another $25. So I've decided to wait for significant changes before updating (to save money). There is yet another update to v2.1 which costs somewhere around $35. I'll let that one pass. I must say that Microsoft is setting a precedent (regarding updates) which (unfortunately) appears to be emulated by an increasing number of companies. If you need more specific info, just holler. >>> gene >>> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #15 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5270 06-03-88 17:30 (Read 94 times) from: JOE VINCENT to: GENE ALM (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5269 Gosh, Gene, now you've made me unhappy with "M", for which I paid such a reasonable price (namely, free with MASM 5.1 and MSC 5.1). I had considered Brief, but when M showed up for nothing with Brief emulation, I forgot about Brief. Apparently, I don't know enough about Brief to forget it. <sigh> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #16 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5271 06-03-88 18:47 (Read 94 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: ANDY WHITCROFT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5256 Andy, I left Sammy Mitchell af* note about how to generate cobol line numbers. When I get a reply, I'll let you know what he said. It may not be possible, but might be a good feature for the next release. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #17 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5272 06-03-88 18:52 (Read 95 times) from: TIM NESHAM to: ANDY WHITCROFT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5267 Andy, Thanks! I've been looking for an editor just like that that doesn't eat up a lot of ram, i.e., quickc and M.exe. Tim >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #18 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5273 06-03-88 18:57 (Read 95 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: TIM NESHAM (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5265 Tim, The current version of Qedit allows marking blocks as short as one character. You might want to take another look. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #19 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5275 06-03-88 21:54 (Read 95 times) from: LEE THOMPSON to: TIM NESHAM (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5265 Tim, As others have told you the latest version of QEDIT does allow for blocking out characters rather than entire lines. What they didn't tell you is that the latest version is larger and requires more memory, and that the procedure for calling up and editing mulitiple files in multiple windows has become quite a pain. I prefer the older version. You don't get pulldown menus but I don't use them so do not find their absence any loss. -Lee >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #20 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5277 06-04-88 07:33 (Read 95 times) from: TIM NESHAM to: LEE THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5275 Lee, Yea, I don't need pull down menus, just a good editor. If these programmer's editors start treating us like 'word processors' then VEDIT PLUS is well worth the money. An editor should not hog memory - I don't need an environment, unless I can compile in it :-). Tim >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #21 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5281 06-04-88 14:30 (Read 95 times) from: GENE ALM to: JOE VINCENT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5270 Sorry Joe... If it'll make you feel better, BRIEF doesn't yet work under OS/2 so when I am in that environment, I am forced to use M. I'm STILL waiting for MSC 5.1. Did you get the OS/2 version or the DOS version?? I ordered the OS/2 version and that may be the problem. I see that there is a patch for MSC 5.1 and I downloaded it. So I have the patch before I have the software. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm... You would REALLY like BRIEF. >>> gene >>> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #22 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5282 06-04-88 14:37 (Read 97 times) from: JOE VINCENT to: GENE ALM (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5281 Gene, I have the DOS version of MSC 5.1. I'll probably buy the transition upgrade to OS/2 before the end of June, when the $200 upgrade offer expires, but for now, I'm still running DOS 3.3. You're running OS/2? Do you use OS/2 exclusively or do you ping-pong between DOS and OS/2? Any comments, pro or con? Phil Katz is still adamantly opposed to OS/2, just as he USED to be to .EXE files. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #23 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5292 06-05-88 03:00 (Read 98 times) from: LARRY EDWARDS to: JOE VINCENT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5282 I left a message on this subject in the wrong conference last night; for info on Multi-Edit, which I really like (!), see the Hardware conference for 6/3/88. Sorry about the inconvenience. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #24 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5306 06-05-88 20:41 (Read 99 times) from: GENE ALM to: JOE VINCENT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5282 Joe, I jump up and back between DOS and OS/2. My AT boots DOS from the hard disk and so when I wish to load OS/2 (and the DOS 3.3 (in)compatibility box), I boot from drive A. Most of the OS/2 utility files reside in the directory \OS2. I have a plethora of C utilities that I wrote and would like to see if they will run under OS/2. I called Microsoft last week and they said that I should see C (pun absolutely intended) shortly. One thing that I did do was to run a complex fft which took 2 Mb of memory. I have the OS/2 version of MS FORTRAN and so I simply compiled the damn thing, linked it and crossed my fingers. I got answers. Correct answers. Wow. I can't wait until I get the OS/2 C stuff. I am really surprised. I used huge arrays and didn't have to declare anything to be huge. You might as well get OS/2. When IBM releases the presentation manager, you'll get the update free from IBM. Not really a bad deal. I am sitting here with an update form for MS Pascal 4.0. Should I get it? I already have Turbo Pascal 4.0 so I just don't know. Maybe some Pascaloholics out there might care to comment. Phil Katz speaks his mind. He should. We all benefit from his creativity. >>> gene >>> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #25 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5310 06-06-88 18:53 (Read 98 times) from: JOE VINCENT to: GENE ALM (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5306 Well, I guess I'll go ahead and get OS/2 (can you sense my unbridled enthusiasm?). Better to get it now for $200 than to wait and pay $325. An irritant is that I have to provide my DOS 3.3 proof of license to get the transitional OS/2 at the special price. Then, when DOS 3.4 comes out, I'll have to buy it (although at a discount) rather than being able to upgrade, since I will have already used my proof of license for OS/2. My last encounter with Pascal was at The American University in D.C. in the late 70s. It was just another language, to me, except its I/O capabilities were primitive. I saw nothing to make me choose it over C or PL/1 in any given programming situation, so I never revisited it. I assume it's better now than it was a decade or more ago? If you're like me, you'll end up upgrading eventually. I have shelfware that I upgrade because I just never know when I might want to use something. So, go ahead and upgrade MS Pascal. Your Fortran Fourier Transform ran, all 2MB of it? Very impressive! I haven't done much with Fortran since 1979. Did a lot of it then. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #26 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5314 06-06-88 23:19 (Read 100 times) from: GENE ALM to: JOE VINCENT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5310 Joe, Ok, I'll send Gil Bates another $75.00. Sigh. One thing that OS/2 has going for it is that system calls are not done in the primitive DOS manner. Rather, calls to the operating system are fast (pascal) calls that look just like C functions. So guess what. Although MS FORTRAN does not support DOS calls, it is simple for it to make OS/2 calls. The only stuff I have for OS/2 is a few utilities, MASM 5.1 and FORTRAN 4.1. I'm waiting for C and will order Pascal. To whet your appetite, I just got the beta stuff for the next version of Turbo C. Sorry, no peeking! >>> gene >>> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #27 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5316 06-07-88 16:42 (Read 99 times) from: HYONG BANG to: GENE ALM (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5314 Now, wait a minute. You're going to tell us that you've got your hand in the cookie jar, but you're not going to tell us if there are any cookies? What kind of sadist are you? On OS2 and such, are you running IBM hardware and software, or are you running clone stuff? I'm looking at doing some buying(hard and soft) and to look hard at moving to OS2, and looking for some hard data on which to base the decision. The current noises about each hardware firm needing to put together a custom OS2 makes me want to stay away from any but the largest firms. If you've got both OS2 hardware and software, and are doing development work in it, why not run a OS2 sig/conference here??????? Hyong >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #28 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5320 06-07-88 19:25 (Read 102 times) from: JOE VINCENT to: GENE ALM (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5314 Just got the beta stuff for the next version of TC? Grrrrr! I'm still steamed because Borland didn't have any interest in letting me beta the first releases of TB and TC. No peeking, huh? How about dropping some tidbits here or in Private as the Lords of Borland give dispensation? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #29 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5335 06-09-88 22:20 (Read 98 times) from: TOM FELLER to: GENE ALM (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5314 Gene, You got the next version of TC. O.K. all I need to know is; does it have a debuger. Please leave a MSG via Email. I need to know! *Tom Feller* >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #30 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5339 06-10-88 16:24 (Read 98 times) from: ANDY WHITCROFT to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5335 Dear Tom, NO!, the new version does not have a debugger. Buy, QuickC, and get an envorinment with debugger! Andy. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #31 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5341 06-10-88 20:24 (Read 100 times) from: TOM FELLER to: ANDY WHITCROFT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5339 Sorry, but I need the large memory model. QuickC sucks! I may do some debugging in MSC 5.1. For a good environment I like TC. It also makes the smallest .EXE files. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #32 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5347 06-11-88 01:35 (Read 100 times) from: GENE ALM to: HYONG BANG (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5316 Hyong, Borland has a tight policy for beta testers. I guess I'll honor it. I have an IBM 339 with 3.5Mb of extended memory (Orchid ECCELL). I just received MSC 5.1 a few hours ago and am not overly happy with it. The documentation sucks. Give me a couple of days and I may have some comments regarding the package. But so far, it seems that the setup program will only run in OS2 protected mode. It crashes (and locks up) the (in)compatibility box. Good greef!!! It would seem that MS would have provided a bound program but NOOOOOOOOOOOO... >>> gene >>> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #33 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5350 06-11-88 09:48 (Read 104 times) from: JOE VINCENT to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5341 Re: QuickC sucks. Come on, Tom, don't hold back -- tell us how you REALLY feel about it. I, too, need the large memory model, so I do what I can in QC and then move to MSC 5.1 and CodeView to do the rest. I have TC, but don't use it very much -- don't like the poor Assembly language interface. To use your very apt terminology, it sucks. Wait a minute -- aren't you the guy who didn't need a debugger because of writing flawless code? What happened? Are you, after all, mortal, like the rest of us poor hackers? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #34 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5352 06-11-88 11:03 (Read 105 times) from: TOM FELLER to: JOE VINCENT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5350 The assembly language interface for TC is as good as MSC. There is very little difference, you still have to link. I use TC with assembly language routines all the time, no problem! Maby you did not read the TC manual. As for a debugger I was once again given a piece of code to debug. I did not write it, so its very hard to debug what I have not written. However, many times I can quickly see the problem without a debugger. However, in this case the programmer botched it up so bad I can't figure it out. As for debugging assembly language routines, I have used the dos debug with limmited success. I still find the best way to debug my own code is with a printf. And TC still produces a smaller EXE file than MSC. So, maybe I will debug this botched up code using MSC but the final compile will be with TC! *Tom Feller* >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #35 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5353 06-11-88 19:36 (Read 104 times) from: JOE VINCENT to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5352 Tom, you're right -- I didn't read the TC manual very closely. I read the part about in-line Assembly code and that was it. Perhaps it is as good as MSC. Good luck debugging the basket case you were handed. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #36 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5363 06-13-88 15:29 (Read 103 times) from: HYONG BANG to: GENE ALM (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5347 Does it seem to you that those of us in the IBM sector of the PC universe have no choice but to invest in OS2? That no alternative system for the 386 systems are in any realistic sense viable in the marketing sense? If so, it also seems, looking at the projected plans for OS2, that one is best getting on the train as early as possible? (i.e. the learning curve is going to increase in slope?) If Borland's C does not have a debugger, I hope that you and all the other beta testers insert a major objection on that point. By the way, have you any experience with "ViewMagic"(?) supposed to use the virtual 86 mode on a 386 to reduce the codeview overhead to a few tens of k bytes? Hyong >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #37 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5368 06-14-88 10:14 (Read 100 times) from: GENE ALM to: HYONG BANG (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5363 Hyong, Well, IBM and Microsoft have clearly stated their mutual admiration of OS2. They have also stated that OS2 will be the operating system of the future for the PC. The marketplace may have something to say in that regard so I take a wait-and-see stance. Personally, I believe that OS2 is the precursor of a real '386 operating system. With all the time and effort that has been expended by Microsoft, this seems only natural. At this point, I am not overly interested in '386 stuff due mainly to the lack of two things: an operating system designed for the '386 (not DesqView) and a lack of a hardware buss standard. I will stick with my blue AT and look at the performance of OS2. I've written a few small programs using the OS2 version of MSC and much to my surprise, they have functioned as expected. The MSC demo programs also seem to run. I've never heard of ViewMagic but then again it seems to be a product designed especially for users of '386 machines. Some day, I wish to have a terabyte linear address space. >>> gene >>> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #38 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5369 06-14-88 10:23 (Read 100 times) from: HYONG BANG to: GENE ALM (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5368 Is the $3000 for the Microsoft OS2 SDK the only reasonable(quote) way to get started in OS2 programming? Any sign that this entry price will head down in the near future? Does the new Turbo C have an OS2 capability? Hyong >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #39 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5370 06-14-88 10:23 (Read 101 times) from: GENE ALM to: HYONG BANG (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5363 Hyong, I'm sure Borland had read all the criticism regarding the absence of a debugging environment for Turbo C. I have already made that suggestion. Another thing that I suggested was to provide a reference guide that would lay flat. Thanks for your input. I'll send in your thoughts regarding the debugger. In that regard, should anyone else have suggestions or bug reports, I will be glad to send Borland a copy of the captured information from Exec-PC. So here's your chance to say something to Borland for free (with your name attached). My only interest is that Borland (or anyone else for that matter) have the information that they need to provide programmers with the BEST in programming tools. The compiler developers NEED our input. The benefits of this cooperation belong to us. >>> gene >>> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #40 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5371 06-14-88 10:47 (Read 106 times) from: GENE ALM to: HYONG BANG (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5369 Hyong, I expect that I will rue the day that I mentioned beta testing Turbo C. Even before I get beta materials, I send letters about stuff I see on Exec-PC and about my personal feelings. In that regard, I see Borland more of a mass marketer than Microsoft. I'd like to know just how many Borland and Microsoft C compilers have been sold. It would be interesting. Since MSDOS is the predominant operating system, I would expect Borland to support MSDOS and should they support OS2, I would consider that a bonus. There is little doubt that Borland will have to support OS2 with their C compiler since Microsoft has already released a compatible C compiler and Lattice is (hopefully) not too far behind. Is the SDK the way to go? I don't think so. If you read Charles Petzold's critique in PC Magazine, you know that IBM version of OS2 support is terrible. The Microsoft stuff is not much better. So I purchased IBM OS2 and the Microsoft compilers. These things provide all the utilities needed to develop stuff under OS2. In addition, I purchased a copy of the OS/2 Programmer's Guide by ED Iacobucci (the leader of the OS/2 design team). In addition to the normal pitch about multitasking, the appendices contain a complete listing of the OS/2 function calls (in detail) and some sample code (actually quite a bit). So I haven't got that much invested in the OS/2 stuff and I expect that I have about 80 percent of the information available regarding OS/2. As the transients settle out, I'm sure that more flatware will become available and it will be a lot cheaper than that provided by Gates and his licensees. From what I've seen of OS/2, I rather like it. If you believe in structured programming, you'll like it much more than DOS. You make opsys calls from C by using the conventional function notation and not by accessing interrupts. The interface is MUCH cleaner. The opsys is directly expandable by the applications programmer. It has much to offer. It's too bad that MS has inflated the price of development tools. To me, I consider that a mistake. One of the major keys to the success of the PC has been the open architecture of the hardware and software. I ask that MS and IBM continue (or reinstate) their policy of openness so that new things may develop and prosper. >>> gene >>> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #41 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5374 06-14-88 20:40 (Read 105 times) from: JAMES SABATKE to: GENE ALM (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5371 I have to agree with Gene about OS/2. I've just finished an operating system class where we examined UNIX and OS/2 in depth. The power behind and operating system like either of these make DOS seem quite unnatractive. I think that the critics waiting for a "real" operating system on the 386 are ignoring one of the most important forward steps in PC history. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #42 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5377 06-15-88 11:22 (Read 106 times) from: HYONG BANG to: GENE ALM (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5370 I second your request for a reference manual that lies flat. I am currently using TP4 and that is in even worse condition since the multiple volumes of TPC were completely done away with and made into one huge one (you know this already I'm sure) and it just does not work. Any word on an OS2 version? or since they managed to get Paradox 386 to work under Pharlap's dos extender, may be a version for the 386? Hyong >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #43 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5378 06-15-88 11:28 (Read 107 times) from: HYONG BANG to: GENE ALM (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5371 Thanks for the advice. I'm being forced by the limitations of a personal budget to look harder and harder at buying a 286 system rather than the 386 systems that I lust after, but the investment reuqired for (or looked like required for) OS2 just seemed absurd. Any comments on the steepness of the learning curve? Hyong >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #44 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5384 06-16-88 01:21 (Read 111 times) from: GENE ALM to: HYONG BANG (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5378 Hyong, OS/2 and/or 386 stuff from Borland? I just can't say. You'll have to wait for their announcement. They are not sitting on their hands! Learning curve for OS/2? Wow. That depends on many things. As an example, the MS FORTRAN compiler is easy to use under OS/2. I did some stuff with very huge arrays (ones that DOS would barf up) and had no problem. Unfortunately when it comes to C or assembly language, you'll need references for the API interface. I mentioned the Iacobucci reference previously. The MSC compiler contains header files which declare the API prototypes and their associated data structures. I expect that there is a significant learning curve simply because there is so much new stuff (process synchronization, critical section handling, etc.). The command line for OS/2 might look like DOS but there are few other similarities. I feel much as you do regarding machines and money. I don't have too much to spend and so I have been trying to get the maximum bang for the buck. So, I will not be purchasing a '386 machine in the near future. I guess I want to see a real '386 opsys (which I expect will be similar to OS/2), some significant protected mode applications, and a buss standard. That should allow me to "cop out" for at least two years. My AT has served me well. It fits like an old shoe but doesn't smell like one. >>> gene >>> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #45 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5388 06-16-88 17:20 (Read 106 times) from: HYONG BANG to: GENE ALM (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5384 Again, thanks for the advice. I will get a copy of the Iacobucci book. and most likely, a 286 system of some kind... In any case, will be starting into OS2 applications Real Soon Now. Any volunteers for a leader for an OS2 conference? Thanks much, Hyong >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #46 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5392 06-16-88 22:01 (Read 99 times) from: TOM FELLER to: GENE ALM (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5368 Gene, What about UNIX 386? The benchmarks in the June issue of Personal Computing blew OS/2 away. OS/2's speed dropped off in a curve down as the tasks increased. UNIX 386 speed dropped off linearly as the tasks increased. And the line dropped very slowly. But, the lack of 386 support for OS/2 is the most likely cause of this speed decrease. The 386 version of OS/2 should do much better, I would hope. Of course it will be at least a year until we see a 386 version of OS/2. I think the users will define the move to the next OS. MS-DOS is so popular the move will be slow. UNIX is so complex the users will shy away from it. OS/2 will be the defacto standard. I don't know if I like that or not. My hands have not been in the OS/2 SDK. Some day I will crack open some of the 30 odd manuals we have at the office from the SDK. Thats as soon as my boss is willing to take me off any other project for a month or so. Ha Ha maybe 24 months. Tom Feller >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #47 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5399 06-17-88 11:13 (Read 101 times) from: GENE ALM to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5392 Tom, You see things much as I do. When comparing UNIX to OS/2, there is one thing many seem to bypass. UNIX is multi-user; OS/2 is single-user. So for a multi-user system to beat out a single- user system is significant. But the way OS/2 (and surely UNIX) is constructed, the algorithms may be changed and/or tuned with no changes in the user/programmer interface. So as the people at Microsoft get smarter, OS/2 should get better. I just hope that IBM and Microsoft don't continue to charge significant upgrade fees. There are a lot of individuals who are upset regarding the cost of OS/2 conversion. We haven't seen much in the say of OS/2 applications to decide whether or not the costs are too high. But I did like to see that MS FORTRAN comes in a bound version and therefore there is no cost penalty for the OS/2 version. Unfortunately that same philosophy was not followed in their C compiler. The OS/2 update cost three times the DOS update (and the documentation is extremely poor). The next year or two will be interesting. I've heard that good ol' WordStar will have an OS/2 version RSN. >>> gene >>> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5226 reply #48 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5228 05-29-88 18:46 (Read 96 times) from: PAT SHEA to: ANDY WHITCROFT (Rcvd) subject: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITORS Reply to #5226 Andy... I'll throw my hat in the ring on the editor question. If you are NOT, at some point in your career, an IBM mainframe-type, do not bother to read any further. I use Command Technologies SPF/PC v2.0 and love it !! It's the mainframe TSO/MVS SPF applied to the PC dos environment.... same commands, same screens, same features. When I found it, I felt like I'd come home. It's SPF with all the bells, whistles (and warts) that it's big brother has. It's faster than a scalded cat, virtual memory, handles files as big as your free disk space (paging drive) and duz all the good stuff that an editor should. It's not as pretty as some of the competition, but for an old mainframer, it's like putting on an old pair of shoes. best, pat shea.. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5233 05-29-88 21:38 (Read 96 times) from: ANDY WHITCROFT to: PAT SHEA (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5228 Dear Pat, I assume that there is no support for a mouse, but otherwise is very powerful. My only remaining question is about the command structure, is it easy to remember? Does the command structure stay out of your way or is one constantly answering menu's? Andy. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5228 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5235 05-29-88 23:10 (Read 97 times) from: PAT SHEA to: ANDY WHITCROFT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5233 Andy... definitely NO rodents on this one. The commands are almost 2nd nature and certainly do not get in Ur way. If you have access to an IBM mainframe running tso/mvs, take a look at it's editor, SPF. SPF/PC has exactly the same command structure. I occasionally use 'moonlighters' from the mainframe environment. Their total startup time in getting used to the editor on the PC usually runs 'bout 15-20 minutes (and then they try to steal a copy when they leave, dammit!). as an aside... someone once told me that WIMP stood for users of Windows, Icons, Mice (or maybe Menus) and Prompts ??? best regards, pat s. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5228 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5254 06-02-88 00:10 (Read 92 times) from: TOM FELLER to: ANDY WHITCROFT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER'S EDITO Reply to #5233 The menus do stay out of your way in VEDIT. *Tom Feller* >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5228 reply #3 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5231 05-29-88 20:23 (Read 101 times) from: BRUCE SHERMAN to: ALL subject: LEARNING C What books and aids do you recommend for learning Microsoft C? By the way, I have about ten years of programming experience, and currently use Turbopascal. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5236 05-29-88 23:25 (Read 102 times) from: PAT SHEA to: BRUCE SHERMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: LEARNING C Reply to #5231 I've tried a lot of texts from the venerable "white bible" (K&R) right on thru the whole gambit with varying degrees of success, but 'bout two or three semesters ago I came on Robert Lafore's "Microsoft C Programming for the IBM" - Howard W. Sams & Company 1987 and it seems to have rung some chimes with the students - mostly undergraduate types who cut there teeth on Turbo. Lafore is one of the authors/editors in the Waite Group and duz a super job of making some pretty dry stuff quite interesting/readable. Another of his books that you may know is "Assembly Language Primer for the IBM PC & XT" - this is a good one too if Ur so inclined. happyhacking pat shea >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5231 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5255 06-02-88 00:21 (Read 98 times) from: TOM FELLER to: BRUCE SHERMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: LEARNING C Reply to #5231 First get TurboC and then you don't have to learn MSC. A good book is Learning C by ??, I loaned it to someone and forgot about it. Thanks for reminding me! For reference K+R is ok but I think C A Reference Manual by Harbison+Steele from Prentice-Hall is better. It has lots of ANSI stuff. The organization is better and it has almost all extensions. There are many good learning C books, look for one that has allocation, linked lists and pointer stuff to the max. Thats a big thing in "C" allocation and pointers. *Tom Feller* >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5231 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5248 05-31-88 19:26 (Read 98 times) from: MATTHEW EASH to: ALL subject: MOUSE PROGRAMMING I AM A RELATIVELY NEW PROGRAMMER WHO IS TRYING TO GET QUICKC TO WORK WITH A MOUSE -- MICROSOFT SPECIFICALLY, BUT MICE IN GENERAL. I CAN'T SEEM TO GET TO WORK AT ALL -- THIS FUNCTION INSTALLS THE ADDRESS OF CODE TO BE EXECUTED UPON A MOUSE INTERRUPT. ANY HELP IS APPRECIATED. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5258 06-02-88 16:28 (Read 90 times) from: ANDY WHITCROFT to: MATTHEW EASH subject: R: MOUSE PROGRAMMING Reply to #5248 Dear Matthew, try scanning the mahoney collection with word 'mouse', there is a file in there that has functions for mouse interupts written in turbo c and another written in turbo pascal. either one or both might be worth a look. Andy. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5248 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5249 05-31-88 22:56 (Read 96 times) from: RICK CANAPA to: ALL subject: REMOTE ACCESS I'm currently looking for a program to remotely access my system and run my software without it rebooting. at this time, I'm running Minihost - which is nice - but I can't run my own programs which is the main intent. From running a quick scan, Ive seen a few that might be useable, like Hostcall.arc, Drway-b5.arc, Drway-b2.arc, and a few others. If anyone has any feed back, I would appreciate it. Thanks in advance. Regards, rick --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5250 06-01-88 06:45 (Read 93 times) from: PETER OZOLINS to: RICK CANAPA (Rcvd) subject: R: REMOTE ACCESS Reply to #5249 cc: GREG RYAN Rick, I think Greg Ryan wrote the Drway-bx.arc program, which allows you to run your programs remotely. You could have Minihost drop to dos and run Drway which in turn would output your programs through the modem. I'll carbon copy this message to him. Talk later, Pete >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5249 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5252 06-01-88 23:42 (Read 90 times) from: TOM FELLER to: RICK CANAPA (Rcvd) subject: R: REMOTE ACCESS Reply to #5249 Take a look at CO-SESSION, we use it at work and we think its the best. We tried REMOTE, but it did not offer all the features of CO-SESSION. You can do anything! Except switch a disk. We use it to do stuff on a customer's computer. It's faster than talking over the phone to solve a problem. The customer's computer acts like the keyboard is connected locally and remotely. The screen on the remote computer is updated slower than the local computer. However, the remote screen still updates faster than with REMOTE. It seems as if CO-SESSION "sees" and transmits only what changes on the screen. REMOTE seems to transmit more than needed. CO-SESSION supports COM 1,2,3,4. You can also initiate the call by voice and switch over to modem when connected. This is important if you go through a company switch board. Of course it has auto answer. We tried it out at the office. It was strange, the computer was being run from my friends home. It was like he was at the office , but he was at home. It even worked with the network, he sent me mail! I could also use the keyboard. I tried to read his mind and did a command before he had a chance to see the screen update, he said thanks! It was great! It's the best one on the market! *TOM FELLER* >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5249 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5361 06-13-88 12:13 (Read 95 times) from: RICK CANAPA to: PETER OZOLINS (Rcvd) subject: R: R: REMOTE ACCESS Reply to #5250 Pete; I really appreciate the info and I hope I can make use of it. Sorry about not responding sooner, but I've been down for a couple of weeks restructuring on system. New monitor, cards, cad, and alot more. Right now I'm at work on there system, but I'll keep in touch. Best regards, rick >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5249 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5362 06-13-88 12:18 (Read 96 times) from: RICK CANAPA to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: REMOTE ACCESS Reply to #5252 Tom; Sorry about not responding sooner, but I've been restructuring my entire system, new monitor, cards, cad, etc. Currently my system is down and I'm on the system at work. Printed out your msg to read a little later. Thanks for the info and I'll keep in touch. Best regards and thanks, Rick >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5249 reply #4 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5257 06-02-88 12:53 (Read 89 times) from: THOMAS GIERACH to: ALL subject: PANISONIC 1092 AND WP 5. COULD ANYONE HELP ME OUT WITH A PROBLEM I ENCOUNTERED WITH THE NEW WORDPERFECT 5.0. IT DOES NOT SUPPORT THE 1092 PRINTER AND I AM GOING NUTS TRYING TO GET IT TO PRINT CORRECTLY. IT DOES SUPPORT THE 1092i BUT THEIR MUST BE ENOUGHT DIFFERENCE TO REALLY SCREW ME UP. IF YOU KNOW THE ANSWER OR AND ADD A LITTLE LIGHT TO THE SUBJECT, PLEASE LEAVE A MESSAGE TO THOMAS GIERACH. YOUR HELP WILL BE APPRECIATED. THANKS --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5288 06-04-88 22:24 (Read 95 times) from: EDWARD MARCH to: THOMAS GIERACH (Rcvd) subject: R: PANISONIC 1092 AND WP Reply to #5257 Hello Thomas, I am looking to buy wp 5.0, i have wp 4.2 and NEWS MASTER and I'd like to know how is wp 5.0 ?? Sorry I couldn't help you with your printer problem (yet) I've seen 5.0 for $299 and as low as $204 thru Whare house data products, any other sources for a good price ? when did it come out ? --Ed-- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5257 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5322 06-07-88 23:50 (Read 100 times) from: EDWARD MARCH to: CHARLES PERRIN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PANISONIC 1092 AND Reply to #5295 how is word perfect 5.o as far as graphics goes ? how do you get graphics into it ? and from what source ? how similar is it to the old 4.x stuff ? -ed >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5257 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5260 06-02-88 18:14 (Read 95 times) from: JOE VINCENT to: ALL subject: ORACLE Just received the Professional Developer copy of Oracle today. It's very impressive; all of the documentation is applicable to PC, mini and mainframe environments (i.e., it's non-specific) except for the installation instructions. It's unusual for a software product to be so consistent across environments that the documentation is generic. Resource requirements are eye-popping -- 7.5MB of disk, 640K RAM plus 896K extended (that's extended, not expanded) memory and 2 feet of shelf space for the 18 diskettes and 20 pounds of manuals. Installation wasn't easy. Found that a collision with one of my TSRs was causing problems when Oracle loaded into extended memory and Oracle didn't seem to like sharing extended memory with Desqview's 60K of code. Still not sure that installation was clean, since I received a "failed verification" message at the end. I'll take another run at it with no TSRs and extended memory vacant. Any other Oracle experimenters out there? --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5261 06-02-88 20:59 (Read 92 times) from: DAVE CLAY to: ALL subject: MAKE A .COM FROM MSC5.1 A little help please. How do I go about making a .COM program from Microsoft 'C' compiler. As far as I can tell, the "small" model still gives a seperate stack segment. So far, the only way I have been able to make .COM programs is to write in MASM. Thanks for any help. Dave Clay --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5262 06-02-88 21:19 (Read 96 times) from: PHIL KATZ to: DAVE CLAY (Rcvd) subject: R: MAKE A .COM FROM MSC5 Reply to #5261 Dave, Microsoft has stopped supporting .COM files with a vengeance. Even there MASM manuals don't explain what the ORG statement is really useful, nor do they include a .COM "skeleton" anymore. Anyway, you might want to try Relia's SpaceMaker program which could turn small .EXE's (less than 64K) into a .COM file. Actually though, .EXE files aren't that bad, and do give you more control over things once you learn how to take advantage of them. >Phil> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5261 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5263 06-02-88 23:18 (Read 100 times) from: DANIEL KRAM to: CHUCK CONNOR (Rcvd) subject: R: OS/2 APPLICATIONS Reply to #4264 CHUCK, EXACTLY, WHAT TYPE OF APPLICATIONS ARE YOU LOOKING FOR AS I DO HAVE X NUMBER BUT AM LEARY AS TO LETTING ON OR SAYING WHICH ONES FOR PERSONAL REASONS. DAN --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5268 06-03-88 10:08 (Read 93 times) from: CHUCK CONNOR to: DANIEL KRAM (Rcvd) subject: R: R: OS/2 APPLICATIONS Reply to #5263 DANIEL I AM LOOKING FOR ANY AND ALL TYPES OF OS/2 APPLICATIONS EDITORS, PROGRAMMING UTILITIES, SYSTEM UTILITIES , ETC. I AM A SYSTEMS ANALYST FOR A LARGE CORPORATION LOOKING AT OS/2 FOR BOTH BUSINESS AND PERSONAL USE. ANY INFORMATION OR PGMS EXCHANGED BETWEEN MYSELF AND YOU WILL BE HELD IN STRICTEST CONFIDENCE. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5263 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5304 06-05-88 20:07 (Read 101 times) from: DANIEL KRAM to: CHUCK CONNOR (Rcvd) subject: R: R: OS/2 APPLICATIONS Reply to #5268 CHUCK I AM PRESENTLY WORKING ON A MENU DRIVEN OS/2 SOFTWARE PACKAGE FOR HARD/SOFT DISK MANIPULATIONS. I AM HOWEVER RUNNING INTO SOME SNAGS THANKS TO MICRO- SOFT AND THEM $#%&#! PLEASE WRITE ME IN 4 TO 6 WEEKS AS I HOPE TO HAVE IT UP AND RUNNING BY THEN AND MAY BE PUTTING IT ON THE MARKET VIA MY COMPANY. IF I DO I WILL ALLOW PUBLIC ACCESS HERE FIRST BEFORE RELEASE AND ANY COPY RIGHTS ARE INFRINGED. GOOD LUCK ON YOUR ENDEVERS. DAN >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5263 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5573 06-07-88 13:17 (Read 105 times) from: CHUCK CONNOR to: DANIEL KRAM (Rcvd) subject: R: R: OS/2 APPLICATIONS Reply to #5304 Daniel this is chuck connor . just checking to see how your os/2 project is going. and to give you my address and ask for yours for corespondence on your project and other OS/2 pgms you may know of. my address is: 13311 New Hampshire Ave. suite #8 Silver Spring, Maryland 20904 (w) (301) 650-4340 (h) (301) 490-8107 >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5263 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5579 07-07-88 00:05 (Read 107 times) from: DANIEL KRAM to: CHUCK CONNOR (Rcvd) subject: R: R: OS/2 APPLICATIONS Reply to #5573 CHUCK, SORRY, I FORGOT ABOUT YOU. YES, I HAVE FINISHED MY SOFTWARE FOR THE OS/2 SYSTEM'S. IT IS, IF I DID NOT TELL YOU BEFORE, AN INVENTORY PROGRAM FOR WHICH INQUIRIES ARE RECEIVED AND LITERATURE IS SENT TO THE 'CLIENT' OR CUSTOMER. MY GOODNESS I NEVER THOUGHT IT WOULD BE THAT HARD OF A TAS TO MANIPULATE THE PROGRAM TO GET IT TO WORK AS IT SHOULD WHITH OS/2. I HOWEVER AM UNABLE TO 'SELL' IT (I.E. GIVE IT OUT) AS THE COMPANY I WROTE IT FOR HAS (C) ON IT. I AM WILLING, HOWEVER, TO SHARE THE IDEAS ETC... WITH ANYONE INTERESTED IN LISTENING. I AM PURCHASING THE WINDOWS APPLICATION SOFTWARE FOR MY OTHER PC'S THAT DESIRE MULTITASKING. I HAVE FOUND IN MY SHOP THAT SOME WORKSTATIONS REQUIRE THE USE OF MULTITASKING ONLY AND NOT THE (AHEM) 'FULL FEATURED' OS/2 THAT IBM (AND SOON TO BE OTHERS) OFFER. AND IT DOESEN'T COST MY BUDGET AN ARM AND A LEG. HOW ARE THINGS ON YOUR END? OH, BY THE WAY IBM, OF COURSE, IS GIVING A EXCELLENT COURSE ON OS/2 IN SEPT. I BELIEVE HERE IN MILWAUKEE AT THE IBM BUILDING DOWNTOWN. I TOOK IT AND GOT AN EXCELLENT UNDERSTANDING AND WORKING AND BUSINESS KNOWLEDGE OF OS/2 AND MULTITASKING, IN AS FAR AS PROGRAMMING AND SYSTEM/ANALYSIS DESIGN GOES. IT ONLY RAN $995 AND IF YOU ARE A DPMA MEMBER CAN GET IT FOR $200 LESS. HMMMMM. ADDRESS IS: (W) 2875 S. 171ST STREET NEW BERLIN, WI 53151-3511 % DANIEL KRAM M.I.S. DIR. WRITE HERE I MAY GET IT SOONER AS I RARELY AM HOME TO READ MY OWN MAIL. (W/P) (414) 797 - 8558 ANYTIME BETWEEN 9 - 5. HOPE YOUR DOING WHAT YOU WANT TO BE (IN OS/2). QUESTIONS? SEE YA, DANIEL R. KRAM >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5263 reply #4 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5264 06-03-88 06:04 (Read 91 times) from: PAT SHEA to: ALL subject: "ACTOR" Is anyone out there using The Whitewater Group's ACTOR ??? Comments and/or Opinions, please. TNX, pat shea --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5266 06-03-88 08:06 (Read 89 times) from: WILLIAM BIRD to: PAT SHEA (Rcvd) subject: R: "ACTOR" Reply to #5264 I have a copy of Actor but have not had much of a chance to use it. It is an object oriented language with a syntax that is close enough to pascal for us "real" programmers to understand. It does, as its advertising suggests, make simple MS Windows programming simple. Complex windows programming, however, still requires that you understand the details of windows (i.e., you need the Windows Developers kit or at least one of the windows programming books). The biggest problem with Actor is in creating an independent load module that you can distribute. It is a cumbersome process and creates a large file (most of the run time Actor stuff is included in it). I haven't tryied this in the current version (1.1) so don't know how hard it is (they improved it). This will be my next project, if I ever get time. Have a good day....Bill >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5264 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5274 06-03-88 21:41 (Read 97 times) from: PAT SHEA to: WILLIAM BIRD (Rcvd) subject: R: R: "ACTOR" Reply to #5266 Bill.... TNX for the comeback on the ACTOR question. Your reply pretty much substantiates what I have heard from others. I am presently 'doing Windows' the hard way, i.e., line by line coding, and am a very long way from being what I would call proficient. 'really just started working that environment a few month ago to satisfy my curiosity, not for any real business problem. sorta lookin' for an easier way.... TNX again pat shea >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5264 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5278 06-04-88 07:37 (Read 93 times) from: TIM NESHAM to: PAT SHEA (Rcvd) subject: R: R: "ACTOR" Reply to #5274 Pat, If all you need are windows, check out the Blaise Libraries. Or perhaps Greenleaf. I personally have used Blaise and they give you a ton of functions mit source. Windows, Tsr stuff, Screen stuff, string stuff and stuff stuff - a lot of stuff. The code is excellent. But stay away from a product called Screen Star by essential. I had it and boy was it buggy. Tim >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5264 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5287 06-04-88 22:13 (Read 95 times) from: PAT SHEA to: TIM NESHAM (Rcvd) subject: R: R: "ACTOR" Reply to #5278 As a general windowing utility/library, I've been using Windows for C (and W for Data) from VCS. I'm just starting to Putz and timker with MS Windows, and it's a real trip! pat shea >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5264 reply #4 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5276 06-03-88 22:57 (Read 96 times) from: FRANK FISHER to: ALL subject: CALENDER ALLOGRITHIM I'm working on a program in Quickbasic that will plot manpower for a fire department ambulance system. The department divides it's manpower into 3 shifts. Each shift works for 1 24 hour day and then is off for 2 days. I'm trying, unsucessfully so far, to write a sub program that can determine the shift number from the current date. Any ideas anyone? I'm begining to think that I'm wasting my time. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5279 06-04-88 08:34 (Read 99 times) from: JOHN GRANT to: FRANK FISHER (Rcvd) subject: R: CALENDER ALLOGRITHIM Reply to #5276 sounds like you need to convert mm/dd/yy to a julian daynumber? I wrote a few dBASE-esque date functions for QB that I uploaded here a few months ago. Scan Mahoney for 'dBASE' and 'date' or check out my board at 414-226-6122 24hrs on weekends and 6pm-6am weekdays. Hope this helps, if not, I'll re-upload them. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5276 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5285 06-04-88 16:29 (Read 100 times) from: JOHN WALLACE to: FRANK FISHER (Rcvd) subject: R: CALENDER ALLOGRITHIM Reply to #5276 Frank, I have a set of "C" routines that I wrote that compute a "day number" from a month, day, and year (00-99), and the inverse function. I've up'ed them in C-CAL.ARC and they're named DAYNO and INVDAYNO. This was part of my first use of Quick-C so they're probably not super efficient, but they work slick. The only limitations are that days between 1/1/00 and 3/1/00 do not work, and the day number will run out at 12/31/99. The algorithm works correctly through leap years. You shouldn't have any trouble converting them to BASIC. To get the day of the week, divide the day-number by seven and check the remainder. You'll have to add a constant to the day number to get 0-6 to correspond to SUN-SAT, but that's no big deal either. Let me know it you have trouble converting to BASIC, as these routines started in an old book I bought from the ACM in the late 60's written in ALGO, then converted to BASIC on my Apple II, now C on my AT clone. John >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5276 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5344 06-11-88 00:20 (Read 95 times) from: FRANK FISHER to: JOHN WALLACE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: CALENDER ALLOGRITH Reply to #5285 Thanks. I'll take a look at them. Quickbasic 4.0 can now call C functions so translation is no problem. My biggest problem, however, is not determining the day of the week. The shifts are numbered 1, 2, and 3 and last for a 24 hour period. If you start counting by threes on a calender you'll see my problem. The program must not only know the day of the week, but it must know the shift. I think that I will probably break down and write a full year calendar (sorry about the previous misspellings I,m lost without a spell checker) that can be replaced each year. If you can think of anything else please leave a note. Thanks again!!!!! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5276 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5348 06-11-88 05:38 (Read 93 times) from: JOHN WALLACE to: FRANK FISHER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: CALENDER ALLOGRITH Reply to #5344 Frank, If you can convert a mm/dd/yy value to a sequential (julian or otherwise) value, why can't you just divide by three and check the remainder ( i.e. X mod 3) to determine which of the 3 cycling shift should be on? I started a shift scheduling program years ago where we had 5 crews that covered three 8 hr. shifts a day. Getting the basic scheduling was fairly straight-foward, where we ran into a snag (and lack of time) was factoring in substitution algorithms to cover for vacations, training, etc. If you'd like to pursue this, we probably should shift to a private exchange, since no-one else seemed to jump onto your thread. John >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5276 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6035 08-18-88 23:34 (Read 98 times) from: FRANK FISHER to: JOHN WALLACE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: CALENDER ALLOGRITH Reply to #5285 John, Thanks!!!! I've pretty much decided to write the program as a spreadsheet template but these routines could change my mind. Frank >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5276 reply #5 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6036 08-19-88 05:46 (Read 94 times) from: JOHN WALLACE to: FRANK FISHER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: CALENDER ALLOGRITH Reply to #6035 Frank, I forgot exactly what I helped you with, but if there is anything else I can do, let me know. I'm not in the same league with the other heavy weights here so anytime I can help I feel good. John >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5276 reply #6 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5280 06-04-88 10:55 (Read 100 times) from: BRUCE SHERMAN to: ALL subject: TPASCAL SHELL I have written a Turbopascal program that invokes other *.COM, *.EXE, and *.BAT files by creating, and then executing, a batch file. In the process, my Turbopascal program terminates itself, and the batch file which it created, rein xxxxxx created, reinvokes the Turbopascal program. This approach has an advantage, in that all memory is available for the invoked programs. However, is there a way to invoke programs via Turbopascal, version threeon three, which gives the invoked programs nearly all of the computers memory, yet allows the parent program to remain in memory as well? The parent program, by the way, is currently a *.COM file containting about 35,000 bytes. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5286 06-04-88 19:54 (Read 100 times) from: LEE THOMPSON to: BRUCE SHERMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: TPASCAL SHELL Reply to #5280 Bruce, I suggest that you upgrade to version 4. What you want to do is very easy as to do in TP4. With Turbo Powers Turbo Profesional its is also very easy to do TSR's. -Lee BTW: As Phil has discovered changing from COM files to EXE files isn't so bad. Using TP4 and Units vs TP3 and Lib files isn't so bad either. I do recommend the upgrade. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5280 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5293 06-05-88 07:36 (Read 101 times) from: THOMAS ATKINSON to: BRUCE SHERMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: TPASCAL SHELL Reply to #5280 I have a routine titled shrink that does what you ask. If it is not here i will up it to Mahoney. It relies on a specific version of Pascal, so to use it there is a reference to a PagesToSave variable that you just manually enter in with the numbers you used when you set your compiler 'I' and 'A' options... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5280 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5296 06-05-88 09:25 (Read 102 times) from: BRUCE SHERMAN to: LEE THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: TPASCAL SHELL Reply to #5286 I have had version 4.0 for many months, but do not want to take the time to perform a conversion from the original TP code using version 3.0. Thanks for the info, though. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5280 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5297 06-05-88 09:26 (Read 102 times) from: BRUCE SHERMAN to: THOMAS ATKINSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: TPASCAL SHELL Reply to #5293 Thanks! I will look for SHRINK immediately. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5280 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5299 06-05-88 11:04 (Read 102 times) from: BRUCE SHERMAN to: THOMAS ATKINSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: TPASCAL SHELL Reply to #5293 After compiling and running (unsuccessfully), SHRINK.PAS, I tried to find the ae variable called PagesToSave. Again, unsuccessfully. When running SHRINK.PAS, this was the screen output: shrink failed. RC(8) 8 8 8 8 The SHRINK.PAS program was compiled under TP3.0 with I and A options set to 0200 each. Any ideas? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5280 reply #5 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5301 06-05-88 16:31 (Read 99 times) from: THOMAS ATKINSON to: BRUCE SHERMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: TPASCAL SHELL Reply to #5299 I believe the return code 8 is not enough memory. I just looked at the code and it is Pages_to_reserve. In the case that i use it, i set that variable to 5000, and both 'I' and 'A' to 5000 when compiling. I use it to shell to Zmodem and Arc extractors. There is some code before that Pages_ to_reserve that computes program size, which i just removed, as i said in the first message it is dependent on a specific release of Turbo. There were also some forward reference that i took out and it works just fine that way. Actually i made it an include file and set all variables up as global. I then Shrink; as the first procedure when starting up. About the only problem i ran into with it was not setting 'I' and 'A' large enough which causes a hang... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5280 reply #6 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5302 06-05-88 16:34 (Read 101 times) from: THOMAS ATKINSON to: BRUCE SHERMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: TPASCAL SHELL Reply to #5299 Oh yes, the reason you get 8 8 8 8 is that if you look at the end of that code you will see it does 4 tests. A dir and i think 3 programs that i do not even have... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5280 reply #7 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5305 06-05-88 20:29 (Read 106 times) from: PAUL ZIMMERMAN to: BRUCE SHERMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: TPASCAL SHELL Reply to #5299 That is exactly what happens to me, too.... The '8's are the error code returned by the procedure attempting to deallocate the heap and use it to shell out. There ia supposed to be a binary include called "turborun.com" that makes it possible to shell out of TP3 with ease, but have not found it yet... You might be best off to just use EXEC in TP4. It will be supported in future releases, at least! Paul >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5280 reply #8 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5283 06-04-88 14:41 (Read 102 times) from: DALE REID to: NICK KEES (Rcvd) subject: DESQVIEW 386 Nick... Not to take more of your time on this Desqview thing, but.... I just got a previously owned desqview 2.01 and qemm version 4.0 ( I realize that there is now a 4.1 but for the price, what the heck). My system is happy with 3.5 megs of memory, a few small tsr's mainly visitype and mouse.com for my Microsoft serial mouse, and qemm.sys. I have the following "problem", or at least I THINK that it is a problem. I use the mouse click to get the desqview's attention, point to what I want to do, and then go to that window. IF the application uses the mouse itself, like Norton Editor or Word, the mouse soon goes off to never-never land, and the only way I can get desqview's attention is by tapping the ALT key. Then I aI can go on to do whatever I want, but until I reboot, or get out of Desqview, the mouse function is gone forever. Do you have amouse? Do you find that you loose control over it (shudder at the thought of a mouse without control), is there some easy fix other than not touching the rodent after you make a window selection if you want to use it with Desqview again This has been a bit frustrating, since once you have a mouse, you sort of get used to it. Many of my programs that I use make use of the mouse in one form or another, and I'd like to have it work if possible. Thanks Dale --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5291 06-04-88 23:46 (Read 100 times) from: NICK KEES to: DALE REID (Rcvd) subject: R: DESQVIEW 386 Reply to #5283 Sorry, Dale, I don't use a mouse with Desqview. Maybe someone else would know more about this? Guys? Nick >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5283 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5294 06-05-88 07:43 (Read 98 times) from: CHRIS KLANN to: DALE REID (Rcvd) subject: R: DESQVIEW 386 Reply to #5283 Dale: I havn't really been following this thread, so I didn't see whether you're running on a '286 or a '386 chip. I have a '286 with DV 2.01, QEMM 4.0, 3 Meg of memory, a generic mouse using Microsoft's driver. I occasionally use the mouse and hve noticed some anomolies too. I havn't really given it much thought, but after hearing your description, it seems that my setup does the same thing when using app's which use the mouse. Wh en I get back to my computer, I'll upload a message to the DV conference on BIX to see what the Quarterdeck people have to say...Chris..... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5283 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5318 06-07-88 18:12 (Read 101 times) from: DALE REID to: CHRIS KLANN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DESQVIEW 386 Reply to #5294 Chris... Thanks for the reply. I'm on a 386 machine with AMI bios. There have been a few occassions that I have locked the machine up with desqviw in the system. None otherwise (or at least asofthen as I think). The mouse control may have a fix and may be related to 4.1 of qemm, since I'm running 4.0 now. Might be worth the update? Dale >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5283 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5321 06-07-88 21:33 (Read 99 times) from: CHRIS KLANN to: DALE REID (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DESQVIEW 386 Reply to #5318 Dale: Perhaps the replyfrom the DV people will give you the answer...I uploaded it yesterday. I'll try back in a day or two. ...Chris..... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5283 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5366 06-13-88 23:29 (Read 99 times) from: CHRIS KLANN to: DALE REID (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DESQVIEW 386 Reply to #5318 Dale: Sorry this took so long...the LA node on PC Pursuit's been pretty busy lately...here's the reply from the Desqview people: . =>From :SYSOP =>To :CHRIS KLANN =>Subj :Mice & DV [r] =>Chris: => The first problem mentioned here is not a problem at all. When =>you use an application (other than a DESQview aware application) that =>uses a mouse, DESQview gives up complete control of the mouse to the =>application. This means that while the application is active, the mouse =>button will not bring up the DESQview menu - you have to use the Alt =>key. The second problem of losing the mouse probably comes from allowing =>the program that is using the mouse to process in the background. This =>is a more common problem on a 386 since many more programs can run in =>background. Set the "Runs only in foreground" option for the program =>to "Y" and then it will properly release control of the mouse when you =>switch away. Stan. . ...hope this helps...Chris..... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5283 reply #5 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5373 06-14-88 18:22 (Read 103 times) from: DALE REID to: CHRIS KLANN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DESQVIEW 386 Reply to #5366 Chris Thanks for getting this info for me. I'll try it out just as soon as I sign off and can load the system to see if it helps. I THINK I remember loosing the mouse control even when the other program terminated , and wasn't running in background, but I'll look to see. Thanks again. Dale >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5283 reply #6 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5284 06-04-88 15:56 (Read 96 times) from: DAVE CLAY to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: MAKE A .COM FROM MSC5 Thanks for your comments, Phil, your help is always greatly appreciated. I was going to try some of Ray Duncan's examples for interrupt handlers or even a device driver in C. The progran that I use to load device drivers only works with .COM files. Looks like it is back to MASM for me. Thanks again, Dave Clay --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5298 06-05-88 10:57 (Read 96 times) from: RANDY MESKER to: CHARLES PERRIN (Rcvd) subject: HELP Charles, think you coulf help me again? problem: I am making a hard disk menu program. I know there are many on this board, but I want to do one myself. How can I input and save the directory and drive specs' while still in the program. Most of the programs that I see here don't use a file or anything. Desktop.arc is a good one! one program is the menu, the other is the modification program, when you are done modifying, it says hit escape to save info.. How does it work? can you help? ps. The last time you helped with random files and I learned alot--Thanks! Randall...! --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5309 06-06-88 12:14 (Read 95 times) from: RANDY MESKER to: CHARLES PERRIN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HELP Reply to #5303 How should I start to learn about this stuff..Dos calls and such! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5298 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5315 06-07-88 05:11 (Read 98 times) from: CHARLES PERRIN to: RANDY MESKER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HELP Reply to #5309 Look at "The Peter Norton Programmers' Guide To The IBM PC".... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5298 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5317 06-07-88 17:31 (Read 97 times) from: RANDY MESKER to: CHARLES PERRIN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HELP Reply to #5315 % peter norton. I will do just that, and then let you know what I come up with...thanks again charles! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5298 reply #3 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5300 06-05-88 11:13 (Read 97 times) from: RANDY MESKER to: CHARLES PERRIN (Rcvd) subject: HELP I'm using basic or quick basica I mean quick basic --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5308 06-06-88 10:48 (Read 106 times) from: NEIL WHITEMAN to: ALL subject: TSR INTERRUPT IN TPASCAL I am trying to write a simple memory resident program in turbo pascal, V 4.0. I want the program to perform a software interrupt whenever I hit alt-f, no matter what applications program I am in. Can somebody help me or give me some hints on the code? I have already written a memory resident program to define a user-defined interrrupt ($65) and it works fine. Now I need a memory resident program to invoke that interrupt whenever I hit alt-f. Thanks for any help I may receive. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5311 06-06-88 19:32 (Read 99 times) from: PAUL ZIMMERMAN to: NEIL WHITEMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: TSR INTERRUPT IN TPAS Reply to #5308 Buy, beg, borrow, or steal a copy of the January/February issue of Turbo Technix. (Or better yet, d/l the listings from that issue right here on Exec :-) There was an article about replacing the keyboard int (int 9) with your own "custom" handler. The inline code & procedures should be VERY helpful in making a TSR keyboard interrupt to intercept & test every key press to see if it is Alt-f and pass it to the old handler if not... Paul >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5308 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5312 06-06-88 20:54 (Read 98 times) from: LEE THOMPSON to: NEIL WHITEMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: TSR INTERRUPT IN TPAS Reply to #5308 Neil, For the easiest TSR programming I highly recommend the use of Turbo Powers Turbo Pro. It's an excellent set of routines for TP 4. -Lee >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5308 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5313 06-06-88 22:26 (Read 98 times) from: NEIL WHITEMAN to: PAUL ZIMMERMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: TSR INTERRUPT IN T Reply to #5311 Paul, Thanks for the info. Exactly what I was looking for!!! I sure do appreciate your help. Neil Whiteman >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5308 reply #3 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5319 06-07-88 18:20 (Read 98 times) from: DALE REID to: ALL subject: MASM 5.1 What is the concensis (sp?) of users of microsoft assembler version 5.0 verses 5.1. I still can upgrade, but I don't use 5.0 too much, and wonder if it is worth the extra bucks right now to do so. Is there a definate advantage? Any bad bugs in 5.0? How many have opted to get the newest one verses live with 5.0? Thanks Dale --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5342 06-10-88 22:54 (Read 97 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: DALE REID (Rcvd) subject: R: MASM 5.1 Reply to #5319 Dale, right now, I don't think there is a consensus (note sp). I got 5.0 but will not pugrade to 5.1 in spite of some interesting added features. Big addition to 5.1 is OS/2 support, protected mode, etc.. I don't intend to go near os/2 until my back is to a wall and my computers cease to work, and my opsys can't work on any machine i can get, etc.. It just cost too darn much. Its cost tends to limit serious use and s/w development to those with substantial $$$ already in pocket and the established corporate entities- MS has kaiboshed some level of innovation in s/w with that gawd awful pricing scheme for their products. There are others, I'm sure, who have kinder opinions. If you are intending to splurge and go to os/2, then buyuing 5.1 right now at the upgrade cost may be worth it. It may cost you the arm and leg yhou didn't spend to go to os/2 later. Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5319 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5351 06-11-88 09:53 (Read 99 times) from: JOE VINCENT to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MASM 5.1 Reply to #5342 Grant, through June 30, you can "transit" from DOS to OS/2 for $200, as compared to the usual price of $325. You'll need the OS/2 upgrade form and the "proof of license" (first white page of your DOS manual) to do it. The form is in a file in the Mahoney collection. Scan for OS2. Is this still too expensive? I agree with you -- the unconscionable prices they're charging for everything related to OS/2 and the PS/2s put the new world off limits to the on-a-shoestring developer. I'm not poor, but it makes me stop and think when I have to shell out a few hundred dollars for an operating system! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5319 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5355 06-12-88 01:10 (Read 107 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: JOE VINCENT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MASM 5.1 Reply to #5351 Joe, I'm not poor either - but ... 1. I paid $65 (or there-abouts) for DOS 3.3 2. $85 (?? +++) for the Tech Ref Manual 3. total $150 (? +++) for DOS 3.3 usability / programmability And ... I paid some exorbitant fee like $160 +++ for the PS/2 BIOS Tech Ref manual and the theivin' (expletives deleted) did not include the BIOS listing. So $200 + gawd knows how deep a gouge for tech ref stuff on OS/2 seems somewhere on the other side of the moon ... on way to mars. Reminds me of Apple's gross sin with respect to the MacIntosh ... 1st release ... cost to get usable programming s/w was so steep I sold the 1/2 interest in the machine I got. Basic was just basically unacceptable ... and you wonder why there was nothing but click-art/porn for the Mac for a long time? I hope IBM's (and MS's) theivin' os/2 environment remains a god-forsaken deseart for useful cost effective s/w till the overall cost to use the baseline comes down by 90% (returns from mars) and the cost of the programming tools does at least the same. Rich, middle, or poor, I will forsake os/2. I get rich by making good use of the cash I do accumulate - and helping MS and IBM get rich (or stay that way getting more so) is contrary to that objective. Yes, Joe, it does give one a pause to reflect - $200 for an op sys - and that's just the first gouge.. Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5319 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5364 06-13-88 17:11 (Read 103 times) from: JOE VINCENT to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MASM 5.1 Reply to #5355 Grant, I would like to believe that $325 is a reasonable cost for a PS/2 OS, so I thought real hard about it -- let's see, a lot of high-priced labor, some G & A, $0.25 per diskette, print up some documentation -- nope, it still comes out to be exorbitantly priced. And, as you so rightly observed, that's just the first gouge. I think that software vendors tend to view the cost of the OS as establishing a price anchor, so their stuff will probably be overpriced, too. Except for companies such as Lotus, whose software has always been unconscionably priced. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5319 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5380 06-15-88 19:19 (Read 107 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: JOE VINCENT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MASM 5.1 Reply to #5364 Joe, I'm going to take smoldering issue with the $325 price ... multiply that by the number of boxes (cpu's) it's likely to sell with ... maybe by force rather than by choice... and then take a good high development cost, packaging cost (doc prep and printing, offset copying, etc..), initial marketing costs (mostly for good will, institutrional visibility - already achieved) ... get total costs ... add 30% for exorbitant margin, subtract cpu's times $325 (value should be > $500K) ... and see my point. I've been in the s/w products and services business for 20 yrs, lost my shirt, made some profits ,,, etc... and I say $325 for a potentially widely used opsys is beyond mars. Lotus is an expletive deleted ... beyond the pale. I bought Quattro instead after having no spread sheet after my visicalc (also too expensive) + apple II+ went kaput - and that was for too darn long! Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5319 reply #5 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5389 06-16-88 18:19 (Read 102 times) from: JOE VINCENT to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MASM 5.1 Reply to #5380 IBM/Microsoft, Lotus, Ashton-Tate . . . shows what happens when a company has a monopoly (or has the market to themselves long enough to become the de facto standard, such as Lotus and 1-2-3). The DOS *upgrade* was $85! Can't wait to see what the upgrade will cost for OS/2 1.1 to 1.2, given that the base software is $325. And you, like me and thousands of other developers, have no choice but to stay in lockstep and pay the price of admission. Grrrr! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5319 reply #6 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5391 06-16-88 21:50 (Read 98 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MASM 5.1 Reply to #5380 Grant, I agree wholeheartly with you on the price for OS/2. One of the reasons PC-DOS beat out CPM and P-System was the lower price of PC-DOS. My experience has been that people are more willing to pay high prices for applications than for system software or utilities. What IBM ought to do is sell a PS/2 only version of OS/2 for $50 and a generic version for $200. That will encourage PS/2 buyers to go ahead and get OS/2. glen q >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5319 reply #7 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5400 06-17-88 14:33 (Read 106 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MASM 5.1 Reply to #5391 glen, while I find it a trifle exorbitant, I could accept a price of about $99 for os/2. And if mail-order bulk distributers could bring it down to $65 or so, I might even be willing to expedite a purchase ... I'm dreaming. But the principal of what you suggest is a very good one. But, I think we private pc owners (ps/2's or other) should stage a rebellion and collectively develop and distribute a $50 os/2-like o/s which has some added facilities for multi=user (no reason technically not to) which is more compatible with DOS3.3++ than os/2. Maybe we could entice Wendin Software in Washington (???) to help lead the wayy by coming out with a really debugged operational usable baseline. Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5319 reply #8 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5402 06-18-88 02:25 (Read 106 times) from: CHARLES PERRIN to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MASM 5.1 Reply to #5400 What I heard about Wendin is that their design team moved to the other side of the state. Billionaire Billy made them an offer they honestly couldn't refuse... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5319 reply #9 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5407 06-18-88 11:14 (Read 105 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: CHARLES PERRIN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MASM 5.1 Reply to #5402 Well, that is interesting ... billionaire billy strikes again. But, from my experience with wendin's opsys s/w, it was the implementatin team that needed fixed - the s/w had just too many bugs. maybe billy picked up the promoted implementation team --- it would serve him right. GE >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5319 reply #10 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5409 06-19-88 10:06 (Read 107 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MASM 5.1 Reply to #5400 Grant, Not a bad idea. What processor would the target be? 808x is out because of no memory management, 80286 isn't well suited for anything, and 80386 is still a little expensive. Maybe the P9 will bring down the cost of 80386 upgrades and we can put out an OS for the 386 market. Maybe the P9 will stimulate the 386 market enough to bring a lot of new stuff out of the woodwork. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5319 reply #11 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5413 06-18-88 22:49 (Read 105 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MASM 5.1 Reply to #5409 glen, I sort of agree with your assessment on the 80xxxx chip set, but I think some o/s which runs on 80286 and 80386 taking full advantage of each/both and priced somewhere between $65 and $125 would be a real winner - particularly if distributed in well packaged pieces thru shareware channels. Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5319 reply #12 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5324 06-08-88 14:35 (Read 122 times) from: CHARLIE STEVENS to: ED ERDMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: COBOL Reply to #4728 cc: THOMAS ATKINSON cc: VINCE ROELL cc: CHARLES PERRIN cc: TOM PETERS I bit the bullet and purchased the Realia compiler after giving it a month trial and am VERY pleased with it. Compilation speed is 4-6000 lines/min (depending on the use of copybooks), the text editor that comes with the package is pretty good and is especially tuned for COBOL. I have ported over a significant chunk of an application which was developed on the mainframe and am getting execution speeds fast enough to justify the additional work to slick things up on the front end so that we can offer the package on the PC. The other good news about the package is that it is quite compatible with OS/VS COBOL (mainframe stuff). This allows me to develop and test programs on my PC and then upload them an run right away. The savings in development costs on the mainframe will pay for the package in about 2 months. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5327 06-08-88 20:46 (Read 118 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: CHARLIE STEVENS (Rcvd) subject: R: R: COBOL Reply to #5324 Charlie, Did Realia ever drop their copy-protection. As I remember, it was one of the few compilers that was copy-protected. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5324 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5331 06-09-88 10:23 (Read 117 times) from: CHARLIE STEVENS to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: COBOL Reply to #5327 Glen, There are two answers to that question. Realia allows you a one month free evaluation period to test out the compiler and decide if it meets your needs (I wish other software vendors would take note). During the evaluation period, the copy of the compiler which you are provided is copy-protected with a hardware device which fits on the parallel printer port--this is probably the device advertised as The Block in the mags. The only trouble that I had during the trial period is that the printer had to be on or the compiler would not 'see' the protection device. After you have decided to buy the compiler, Realia sends you another version of the compiler which is not copy-protected. They do, however, have a scheme which tracks which network node the compiler was installed on so that if you are using a LAN it will only execute from one node over the LAN. As I said in my previous message, I have not run up against any serious limitations on the compiler so far. Hope this answers your question adequately. chas >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5324 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5325 06-08-88 15:56 (Read 100 times) from: THOMAS ATKINSON to: ALL subject: TURBO POWER Does a person have to go right to Turbo Power Software to get Turbo Professional ? Do they also make a product titled Overlay Manager ? Thanks.. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5328 06-08-88 20:51 (Read 98 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: THOMAS ATKINSON (Rcvd) subject: R: TURBO POWER Reply to #5325 Tom, Turbo Power stuff is available from most mail order houses that carry programming tools. I've used Programmers Connection in Ohio with good results. I think they have the Turbo Power stuff for about 20% off. Check in PC Tech Journal, Byte, Dr. Dobbs, or similar magazines for other ads. They sell the professional lib, an overlay manager, a debugger, and one other package. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5325 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5330 06-09-88 01:10 (Read 99 times) from: THOMAS ATKINSON to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: TURBO POWER Reply to #5328 Thanks, will look them up... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5325 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5326 06-08-88 18:42 (Read 101 times) from: LARRY SMALL to: ALL subject: QB Has anyone heard from MS concerning the upgrade to 4.10 QB ? The last time that I spoke to MS they said that a general mailing would be sent out mid-May. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5332 06-09-88 17:16 (Read 102 times) from: JOE VINCENT to: LARRY SMALL (Rcvd) subject: R: QB Reply to #5326 Larry, I hadn't heard anything about a mid-May mailing of a QB 4.1 upgrade announcement. I'll call my contact at MS and see what's up. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5326 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5340 06-10-88 16:28 (Read 104 times) from: ANDY WHITCROFT to: LARRY SMALL (Rcvd) subject: R: QB Reply to #5326 Dear Larry, If it matter's the last I heard from MS was them promoting the basic compiler ver 6.0 with some goodie's. But no news about QB 4.10. Andy. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5326 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5329 06-08-88 22:23 (Read 96 times) from: JIM TOIGO to: DAVID PALM (Rcvd) subject: CLARION V2.0 David--- Well, I broke down and upgraded to CLARION V2.0!! It just arrived in the mail yesterday. That Designer is great. I uploaded my first program I wrote with the new version called TICKLE10.ARC. You might want to take a look at it. After all, it took almost 2 hours to write! --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5372 06-14-88 17:51 (Read 105 times) from: DAVID PALM to: JIM TOIGO (Rcvd) subject: R: CLARION V2.0 Reply to #5329 Jim: Couldn't resist, huh? I'll download your program and see how it looks. I still haven't started using Clarion yet as I am fiddling around wsith DBXL (Dbase clone) and Genifer. I'll let you know what I think! Dave >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5329 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5382 06-15-88 23:49 (Read 105 times) from: JIM TOIGO to: DAVID PALM (Rcvd) subject: R: R: CLARION V2.0 Reply to #5372 Nope---couldn't resist. So far I'm very satisfied. Have found a few bugs though. Try the @T3 function from designer when you define a field. I keep getting an "invalid picture" error. Also, when a lookup field is used on a form screen from another file, using the key in the displayed file, old data is kept when adding a record and the data is not refresh immediately from an update or delete screen. On the whole though I am very pleased. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5329 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5387 06-16-88 17:16 (Read 107 times) from: DAVID PALM to: JIM TOIGO (Rcvd) subject: R: R: CLARION V2.0 Reply to #5382 Jim: I tried your TICKLE program. Pretty impressive for only 2 hours work. It is encouraging me to give it a try sooner than I planned. I wanted to make a suggestion on TICKLE. When I called up the program and the opening screen appeared, it took me awhile to figure out how to input and delete new appointments even though you do provide a help key. I think that it would be very helpful to say at the bottom of the screen to use Insert or Delete keys. Just an idea! I'll let you know when I give 2.0 a try! Dave >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5329 reply #3 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5333 06-09-88 18:29 (Read 94 times) from: DAVE CLAY to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: HOW MUCH STACK MARGIN. Phil, I sure could use your good advice again. I am debugging a problem program that the fellows at the office just about gave up on trying to solve. We are using a QB driver program to run a big collection of Fortran subroutines. The problem is a classic, a data area growing upwards in memory while the stack is creeping downward and CLASH they do! This leads to the general question: How much space does DOS need on top of my stack for its scratch area? From my observations, DOS will push IP, CS (for far calls) and FLAGS (for INT calls) on my stack if I call a subroutine. It also appears that the current IP and several other words are stuffed on my stack. Any idea of what a safe margin is? Thanks for your help. Dave Clay --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5334 06-09-88 22:07 (Read 94 times) from: TOM FELLER to: DAVE CLAY (Rcvd) subject: R: HOW MUCH STACK MARGIN Reply to #5333 I don't know the stack margin but I have had similar problems. The program should say "stack overflow!" and crash. A good way to get around this kind of a problem is to reduce the number of local variables. If you have a recursive call, try to use no local variables. A global variable is normally taboo, but in this case it is the best way around the problem. The local variables are placed on the stack at the time of the call. Another way around the problem is to try to allocate only the variables needed and free all unused variables. I don't know if you can do that in FORTRAN but you can in "C"; Or get UNIX. *Tom Feller* >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5333 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5483 06-28-88 23:58 (Read 105 times) from: PHIL KATZ to: DAVE CLAY (Rcvd) subject: R: HOW MUCH STACK MARGIN Reply to #5333 Dave, Sorry I didn't reply sooner, but I was on vacation. Anyway, most DOS tech ref manuals I've seen have recommended at least 256 bytes of stack for the DOS & BIOS interrupts. If you run alot of TSR's that use interrupts, than you should probably allow 512 bytes or more. Versions of DOS that are 3.2 or later will switch to an internal DOS stack for DOS function calls, which would take some of the burden off of your user stack, but TSR's and real time interrupts could still occur while your stack is active. In previous versions of PKXARC, I have been able to reduce the run time stack to 896 bytes without any problems, with maybe at most a few hundred bytes being used by PKXARC itself, for what it's worth. >Phil> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5333 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5336 06-10-88 07:46 (Read 95 times) from: GARY SARTLER to: ALL subject: QUICK BASIC4 CALLS I have just received a version of qb4. In one of my first attempts to write a program, I realized that I need to call another program. My problem is this, "Is there any way through quick basic that I can make a program call to a .com and/or an .exe program for execution ?" Any help would be greatly appreciated. THANKS !! --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5337 06-10-88 10:41 (Read 95 times) from: THOMAS ATKINSON to: GARY SARTLER (Rcvd) subject: R: QUICK BASIC4 CALLS Reply to #5336 SHELL [command string] >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5336 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5338 06-10-88 16:20 (Read 95 times) from: ANDY WHITCROFT to: MARK TELLIER (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: COBOL LINE NUMBERS Dear Mark, Do you or any of the other programmer's out there know how to write a small C program to resequence the line numbers of the cobol program. I am in desprate need of a utility like this. I have the nessecary compiler's but no idea about building this type of program. I am fortune that the RM/COBOL compiler ignores line numbers on compilation but I need to know the proper line to fix the compiler errors. You see the compiler only gives me a relitive line number not the absolute number, therefore the utility! any and all help will be appreation. and, thanx in advance. . . Andy. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5343 06-10-88 23:00 (Read 95 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: ANDY WHITCROFT (Rcvd) subject: R: COBOL LINE NUMBERS Reply to #5338 Andy, does your utility have to be in C? Seems to me that you could do your own pretty quickly in cobol if the cobol pogram can read standard ascii text files. If not, the fastest path is to it in TPas (any release) Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5338 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5346 06-11-88 00:36 (Read 95 times) from: MARK TELLIER (LEADER) to: ANDY WHITCROFT (Rcvd) subject: R: COBOL LINE NUMBERS Reply to #5338 Andy, I have to admit I know nothing about Cobol. Are the line numbers in Cobol just used to keep track of the number of lines or are they used for reference (like BASIC's goto statement uses, i.e. GOTO 1000)? If the numbers just need to be stripped and reapplied, this should be a relatively easy to do. If you need to work with the statements of Cobol to do the renumber, then the task is a lot larger. - mwt - >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5338 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5357 06-13-88 08:09 (Read 98 times) from: ANDY WHITCROFT to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: COBOL LINE NUMBERS Reply to #5343 Dear Grant, No, the utility does not have to be in C. I do not want it in cobol, because the cobol that I am using is NOT a complete compile, it compile to obj then uses a runtime enviroment (yuck!). Therefore if one would write it in Tpas how would you make a 6 dight number with leading zeros (ie '000100'). Andy. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5338 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5358 06-13-88 08:16 (Read 95 times) from: ANDY WHITCROFT to: MARK TELLIER (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: COBOL LINE NUMBERS Reply to #5346 Dear Mark, To take your last question first, no cobol does not use line numbers like basic does, ie label referances. Every cobol compiler is differant, some issue a warning for missing or non-sequentially numbered lines. The compiler I am using does not seem to care, but it would make my life easier if they were there. this is because the compiler issues relitive line numbers in error, not the absolute line number. I could have the absolute line number if the stament lines were sequentially numbered. Andy. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5338 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5365 06-13-88 23:05 (Read 98 times) from: MARK TELLIER (LEADER) to: ANDY WHITCROFT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: COBOL LINE NUMBERS Reply to #5358 Andy, Can you give me an idea of the syntax of Cobol statements. I might be able to put a little program together to do what you want. If nothing else we might be able to arrange a file transfer between machines with a typical Cobol source file. Let me know. - mwt - >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5338 reply #5 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5367 06-14-88 08:14 (Read 97 times) from: ANDY WHITCROFT to: MARK TELLIER (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: COBOL LINE NUMBERS Reply to #5365 Dear Mark, Cobol syntax is largly unimportant, because cobol is positional. By that I mean that the statments occur in specific columns. As follows: |______|_|_____________________________________________________|________ line # ^ statments in columns 8 to 72 column | 1 to 6 ---- comment or continuation column in 6 The columns 73 to 80 are used only for sequence numbers and not by the the compiler. It is important that the line number in columns 1 to 6 must be filled by zero's or dights. Any more questions ask. . . Andy. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5338 reply #6 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5375 06-14-88 22:49 (Read 104 times) from: MARK TELLIER (LEADER) to: ANDY WHITCROFT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: COBOL LINE NUMBERS Reply to #5367 OK, Andy. The idea here is to take the line number in columns 1 to 6, when one exists (or do continuation lines and comments lines count also), and number the first line with 1, the second with 2, etc.? Let me know if this is correct, and I will generate a program to do this (it sounds simple in theory, must be a catch somewhere). - mwt - >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5338 reply #7 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5376 06-15-88 08:02 (Read 104 times) from: ANDY WHITCROFT to: MARK TELLIER (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: COBOL LINE NUMBERS Reply to #5375 Dear Mark, Two things before you begin, first all lines count, second it seems to be customary to number the lines in increaments of 100. What I waant to know is how will you get around the 32767 limit of pascal int's. And, will you share the source with me? Andy. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5338 reply #8 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5383 06-16-88 00:07 (Read 105 times) from: MARK TELLIER (LEADER) to: ANDY WHITCROFT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: COBOL LINE NUMBERS Reply to #5376 Andy, First, I will get around the 32767 limit by doing the work with strings. Since the lines are always multiples of 100, the last two digits of the 6 digit number will be 00, and I will only need to do 1 to 9999 in a numeric counter. Lastly, I will probably do the code in C if that is alright. Its been a few years since I have done any Pascal. What are the chances of getting a sample Cobol source file to do testing on? - mwt - >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5338 reply #9 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5385 06-16-88 09:14 (Read 101 times) from: ANDY WHITCROFT to: MARK TELLIER (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: COBOL LINE NUMBERS Reply to #5383 Dear Mark, A sample is not a problem tell me how you want me to get it to you. Andy. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5338 reply #10 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5390 06-16-88 19:47 (Read 99 times) from: JOE VINCENT to: MARK TELLIER (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: COBOL LINE NUMBERS Reply to #5383 Mark, perhaps I am missing something, but the program below, which took about 5 minutes to throw together and test in QB 4.0, seems to do what Andy wants. If I understand correctly, he wants to read COBOL source -- probably 80-byte records), insert a sequential number in positions 1 to 6, in increments of 100, and write out the resulting 80-byte record. Is that it? See if this does what he wants: DEFINT A-Z OPEN "COBOL.TXT" FOR INPUT AS #1 OPEN "COBOLNEW.TXT" FOR OUTPUT AS #2 WHILE NOT (EOF(1)) LINE INPUT #1, CobolLine$ LineNo = LineNo + 1 LineNo$ = STR$(LineNo) MID$(CobolLine$, 1, 6) = RIGHT$("000" + RIGHT$(LineNo$, LEN(LineNo$) - 1) + "00", 6) IF LEN(CobolLine$) < 80 THEN CobolLine$ = CobolLine$ + SPACE$(80 - LEN(Co bolLine$)) PRINT #2, CobolLine$ WEND CLOSE END Forgive the wrap-around lines, but it's still readable. The above program avoids syntax unique to QB, so it should work just as well in BASICA after adding the stupid line numbers. Whoops -- some of the commas might have to go, but the heart's still good. The blank padding to 80 bytes can be eliminated if that's not important. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5338 reply #11 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5395 06-16-88 23:31 (Read 97 times) from: MARK TELLIER (LEADER) to: JOE VINCENT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: COBOL LINE NUMBERS Reply to #5390 Joe, Based on what Andy has told me so far, I believe you have just about hit the nail right on the head. I was going to package the code into a command of the form: RESEQ <oldfile> <newfile> Your right, the basic (no pun intended) problem doesn't seem to be too difficult based on Andy's requirements. - mwt - >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5338 reply #12 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5396 06-16-88 23:34 (Read 97 times) from: MARK TELLIER (LEADER) to: ANDY WHITCROFT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: COBOL LINE NUMBERS Reply to #5385 Andy, Are there any source files for Cobol in the Mahoney collection? If so, I can download one of those. If not, is it possible to call your machine to download a sample file? If not, I could set up my machine at a prearranged time for you to call and upload. - mwt - >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5338 reply #13 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5398 06-17-88 08:18 (Read 97 times) from: ANDY WHITCROFT to: MARK TELLIER (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: COBOL LINE NUMBERS Reply to #5396 Dear Mark, there is a file called cobol.arc, which is a complete cobol compiler and some example source programs. Andy. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5338 reply #14 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5403 06-18-88 03:15 (Read 104 times) from: THOMAS ATKINSON to: ANDY WHITCROFT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: COBOL LINE NUMBERS Reply to #5398 Why not just write a little COBOL program to do the job for yourself. 01 test-rec. 02 test-line pic x(6). 02 filler pic x(74). 77 line-no pic 9(6). add 10 to line-no. move line-no to test-line. write test-rec. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5338 reply #15 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5405 06-18-88 09:24 (Read 99 times) from: MARK TELLIER (LEADER) to: ANDY WHITCROFT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: COBOL LINE NUMBERS Reply to #5398 Andy, I'll download the file today. I'll try to upload a completed program either late today or early tomorrow, if I find a suitable test case in COBOL.ARC. - mwt - >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5338 reply #16 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5418 06-20-88 11:55 (Read 102 times) from: ANDY WHITCROFT to: THOMAS ATKINSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: COBOL LINE NUMBERS Reply to #5403 Dear Thomas, I had thought og that, but rejected it because the cobol I am using requires a runtime to execute (yuck!). Therefore I would perfer to have an executable program, with no runtime. Andy. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5338 reply #17 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5349 06-11-88 06:42 (Read 99 times) from: LOWELL DENNING to: ALL subject: TURBO PROLOG 2.0 Has anyone heard when Turbo Prolog 2.0 is being released? I still haven 't heard one word from Borland. Lowell Denning --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5354 06-12-88 01:03 (Read 98 times) from: DAVID NYE to: ALL subject: CLOCK PORT I'm trying to write an .asm program to read from and write to the CMOS clock. Trouble is, I can't find info on the port number, control codes, order of bytes, etc. I have a DTK Multi-I/O board (ubiquitous Taiwanese clone). I already know how to read/write DOS's system clock through INT 26. What I need to know about is the CMOS clock. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5356 06-12-88 23:24 (Read 99 times) from: EDWARD MARCH to: ALL subject: MASTER KEY (DISASM) Has any seen or heard anything about a disassembler called "MASTER KEY" from sharpe systems corp. ?? It looks good for the $79 price, what are some other GOOD disassembler that are MASM compatable for reassembly ?? thanks -Ed- --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5360 06-13-88 10:49 (Read 94 times) from: DAVE ZIESMANN to: ALL subject: MICROSOFT QUICK-C Has anyone used the Microsoft Quick-C compilier with the Microsoft Optimize Compilier version 4.0. Having problems with Codeview debugger. It seems that when I compile using the Quick-C and then try to debug with codeview, I get no symbolic information. I called Microsoft and they say you need version 5.0 of MSC. Is there anyway around theis. HELP --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5397 06-17-88 05:12 (Read 96 times) from: CHARLES PERRIN to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MICROSOFT QUICK-C Reply to #5394 Or, run the CodeView that comes with MASM 5.1 (or 5.0) -- as it runs with QC and QB code.... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5360 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5406 06-18-88 09:38 (Read 98 times) from: THOMAS ZERUCHA to: CHARLES PERRIN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MICROSOFT QUICK-C Reply to #5397 Or just get a copy of Power C and it's C-Trace debugger. It blows both Turbo and Quick C away, and each piece costs only $19.95, so for under $40 you can have a *good* debugger. There are other weaknesses in Power C (supports only the Medium model, for example), but after debugging, you can always recompile in quick C or turbo C, and Power C has graphics functions and the rest of the library is a superset of MS and Borlands. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5360 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5379 06-15-88 19:00 (Read 106 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: ANDY WHITCROFT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: COBOL LINE NUMBERS Reply to #5357 Andy, TPAS would probably be easier than C because of the readln(), writeln() functions being so easy to use. Making 6 digit number with leading zeros can be done using the BCD extentions of TPAS. If you don't have that, then the following fragment/function subroutine illustrates: (* TP 3.0x used - more vanilla *) type stg6 = string[6]; function leadzs(x: integer): stg6; (* function returning 6 char string *) var zval: string[6]; ii: integer; (* local string index *) begin str(x:6, zval); (* converts x to right-justified string w/leading spaces *) for ii := 1 to length(zval) do begin if (zval[ii] = ' ') then zval[ii] := '0' end; (* or use the following do while loop ... ii := 1; while (zval[ii] = ' ') do begin zval[ii] := '0'; ii := ii + 1; end; * end of while ... do alternative *) leadzs := zval; end; (* end of leadzs function *) ... and in your calling routine, you can either write out your sequenced cobol records as a string concatenation (e.g. numval+cobol_line, if you need seq nos on left) or by using the MOVE() procedure to insert (fill in) a fixed length numeric area in a fixed length data structure on the right (e.g. move(numval,cobol_line[73], 6) ). Hope this helps.... shhould be a q+d. Grant --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5381 06-15-88 21:19 (Read 102 times) from: DAVID DOBBS to: ALL subject: LOOKING FOR AN EDITOR I AM A NEW "C" PROGRAMMER. THE "C" LANGUAGE I AM USING IS "ACCESS C" FROM COMPUTER ASSOCIATES. THEIR COMPILER AND EDITOR RUNS UNDER A COMMAND INTERPRETER, WHICH IS QUITE MESSY TO WORK WITH AND THE EDITOR IS VERY LIMITED. I AM LOOKING FOR A MEMORY RESIDENT EDITOR SIMULIAR TO SIDEKICK'S NOTEPAD. DOES ANYONE KNOW OF A GOOD EDITOR TO USE WITH A "C" LANGUAGE? ANY SUGGESTIONS WOULD BE APPRECIATED. THANKS DAVE. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5386 06-16-88 09:18 (Read 100 times) from: ANDY WHITCROFT to: DAVID DOBBS (Rcvd) subject: R: LOOKING FOR AN EDITOR Reply to #5381 Dear David, I would like to suggest Qedit 2.06, it is not a TSR but will let you shell to DOS, and uses wordstar command, as well as fully configurable. Andy. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5381 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5393 06-16-88 22:11 (Read 95 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: DAVID DOBBS (Rcvd) subject: R: LOOKING FOR AN EDITOR Reply to #5381 Dave, It's not a memory resident editor, but I use and really like QEdit. It's only $39 and offers many nice features for C programmers. It's available in the Mahoney collection. Download it and give it a try. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5381 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5401 06-17-88 16:54 (Read 109 times) from: JOHN DOLEYS to: ALL subject: TURBO C OR C WE ARE A DB3+ USER AND NOW WANT TO LEARN EITHER TURBO C OR C. WE NEED TO HAVE SOME QUESTIONS ANSWERED BY AN EXPERT. CAN YOU HELP? --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5404 06-18-88 08:51 (Read 107 times) from: DEAN ROTH to: JOHN DOLEYS (Rcvd) subject: R: TURBO C OR C Reply to #5401 RE: C Help You've come to the right place. I, >Phil> and others will be happy to help. -Dean P.S. Do you know what the following statement will print? printf("%c\n", 2["ABCDEFG"]); >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5401 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5415 06-19-88 23:37 (Read 107 times) from: JOHN GRANT to: JOHN DOLEYS (Rcvd) subject: R: TURBO C OR C Reply to #5401 Well, I can tell you that I once stood in your shoes and did take a stab at database development in C. The first hard lesson was that dBASE makes you take a lot of things for granted in database development. C is more flexible but you must code EVERYTHING from scratch. Much more powerful but much less forgiving. You can purchase libraries with file and index handling routines, but even their availability hasn't caused me to abandon a COMPILED dBASE application when it comes to big-league database applications. It's not that you're reinventing the wheel to write in C (which dBASE is written in), but if you need applications done anytime soon, plan on hiring an experienced C programmer (I am not one). Even though you're probably feeling confident now that you've outgrown dBASE, you're in for a major adjustment in tackling C. I have a lot of respect for the numerous C experts around here and do not plan to compete on their level anytime soon, but, as someone who quickly became bored with dBASE, I took a look at some of the compilers whose runtime speed rivals the same programs written in lower level languages. A good compiler offers many language 'extensions'. It is something you should consider before diving into C, especially if your job is at stake over project deadlines. Now for the plug. I run a local dBASE-oriented board that is on-line from 6:00 pm to 6:00 am (overnights) and 24hrs on weekends. Call us at 414-226-6122. We have callers who could show you how to get more out of an old, tired, slow language. Another suggestion would be to purchase MS Quick Basic and a package called DBLIB, which allows you to use dBASE compatible data and index files from Basic. Tis a far less bitter pill to swallow that going directly to C. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5401 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5423 06-20-88 22:28 (Read 104 times) from: TOM FELLER to: JOHN GRANT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: TURBO C OR C Reply to #5415 John, I do database programming in C. You are correct, the job is more complex. Our company has a home made product called CADE. CADE stands for Configurable Applications Development Environment. It allows us to do fast development in C and our own C like language that defines our screens, menus, reports, fields and databases. This configuration language is compiled, by a yacc generated parser, into a symbol table. We also use Btrieve for our database manager. Btrieve is very powerfull, it has transaction processing, network support and fast access. This system will blow DBASE away. It took years of programmer time to develop this system. However, many good windows libraries are on the market. You don't need a YACC and if you do you can buy one. We wrote our YACC. But, I know you DBASE programmers, you are scared to get your hands dirty in a real language. DBASE programmers are programming WIMPS! Sorry, I shouldn't have said that. I hope you don't take it personally. But, thats what I really think! So, make your boss mad and loose lots of money trying to do what we have done. I know you can't do it. It would take too long. We are about to get into that area with OS/2 and the presentation mgr. Stick with DBASE and wait forever for the OS/2 upgrade. Short term return and no R+D makes a forever small company. If your company is not a seller of software ignore the last series of bad comments. For in house programming DBASE is O.K. But, I here Advanced Revelation is much faster and better. Tom Feller >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5401 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5425 06-20-88 22:49 (Read 105 times) from: JOHN GRANT to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: TURBO C OR C Reply to #5423 I agree on all points, except that I have been a real trooper about using (read have invested $$$$) 'real' languages. If you have any suggestions on how I can accelerate my ideolgical conversion, I'm all ears. By the way, I am attempting to attract knowledgeable database application developers to my board (see this thread) here in town. We really nead to get the ball rolling in our 'cbase' (low level language database) conference. Any suggestions? Me, I'm just a frustrated UWM MIS alum who graduated then had to teach himself how to program. My math background is a bit weak for most of the low-level stuff. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5401 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5432 06-21-88 22:53 (Read 110 times) from: TOM FELLER to: JOHN GRANT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: TURBO C OR C Reply to #5425 Yes, the pointer math can be confusing. Like passing a pointer to a structure that is to be modified. pass_from() { struct ANYSTRUCT *p; pass_to(&p); } pass_to(p) struct ANYSTRUCT **p; { if (whatever) (*p) = (ANYSTRUCT *)myalloc(sizeof(ANYSTRUCT)); } This is confusing to many people including me the first time I did it. But, the concept is simple. One I just did was: SYMBOL ***sp; This was used for a dynamic two dimensional array of pointers to symbols. But, in many cases the first entry into C can be into simple areas. I would advise making simple programs at first and getting more complex later. Linked lists and binary trees are good starting points. Read and sort all the words in a letter into a linked list or binary tree. This program could later be used in other areas like a spell checker or a binary tree database. Have fun! Tom Feller >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5401 reply #5 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5433 06-21-88 23:12 (Read 111 times) from: JOHN GRANT to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: TURBO C OR C Reply to #5432 What you're up against in dBASE 'programmers' is a mentality that makes two sequential traversals through an indexed database; one to count the number of records to delete and another to delete them. I don't mean to bore you with drivel dBASE-ese, but I think the message gets accross in any language. This is the work of a highly paid 'programmer' (not me) I am aware of. See how far pointer math goes with a crowd that sees nothing wrong with the above in 5+ meg of data files on an 8088 machine. Yawwwwwnnnnn. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5401 reply #6 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5441 06-22-88 23:57 (Read 110 times) from: TOM FELLER to: JOHN GRANT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: TURBO C OR C Reply to #5433 John, Software Connection has some dB2c programs that look like a good start. The Toolkit costs $249 from The Programmers Connection 1-800-336-1166. As for that dual pass method, wow, how slow can you get. They also have a dB2c File module that is included in the above tools but it does not have the converter, price $179. Also, a dB2c windows module that is a interface with the tools, Price $89. So for $338 plus the cost of the C compiler the dB programmers should have a easy transition. Ha, Ha, Ha. The big three c compilers are supported TurboC, Lattice C and MSC. I know as the computers get faster the slowness of DBASE will go away and the conversion will be in less demand. But, other database mgrs with faster speed will still be faster. The users will stay with what they know, dBase. And the users will go with OS/2. The users define a large share of the market. Even if they are wrong. Tom Feller >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5401 reply #7 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5412 06-19-88 21:29 (Read 112 times) from: DAVE ZIESMANN to: HENRY BYKERK (Rcvd) subject: R: R: RBASE SYSTEM V Reply to #4622 Henry, I'm am just a beginner in RBASE and the only programmming I do is form my own information. But the problem I have is trying to change the table in a report. I have two reports exactly the same, but access different tables. When I finished one report for one table, I use the copy report command to generate my exact duplicate. I then tried to edit this second report to change my table name but could not. Also both tables use the same column names. If this is two fuzzy of an explanation, SORRY, Any information is well needed. Thanks, Dave --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5444 06-23-88 13:51 (Read 107 times) from: DAVE ZIESMANN to: BENTLY TURNER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: RBASE SYSTEM V Reply to #5439 This concerns the duplicate report problem. You said to delete the orginal table name and then attach a new table to the duplicate report. One problem, what if data exists in orginal table. I know I could export data out of this table and then delete it, but this data must exist for the orginal report. Is there another way? Your response is greatly appreciated!!!!!!! ///Dave/// >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5412 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5456 06-24-88 18:00 (Read 105 times) from: BENTLY TURNER to: DAVE ZIESMANN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: RBASE SYSTEM V Reply to #5444 You should be able to logically detach an existing table from a report definition, without physically deleting the table from RBASE. After removing(logically deleting) the original table you can logically ADD the desired table to the duplicate report. By deleting a table from a report definition, you will not actually delete the table from RBASE. Thus all the data you have in the tables are retained. Hope this helps. Bently Turner >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5412 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5416 06-20-88 03:50 (Read 100 times) from: EVERETT JOHNSON to: DAVE CLAY (Rcvd) subject: R: MICROSOFT QUICK-C Reply to #5408 Yes, I have used OPTASM extensively. I find that their claims are conservative. Not only is the speed great, but it has MANY nice enhancements, all of which can be turned off if you wish. I purchased my copy on a 30 day trial, so it was no risk. My over all rating: SUPER. One drawback in the current option is that it has no /Zi option. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5417 06-20-88 08:03 (Read 97 times) from: GEORGE KOFMAN to: ALL subject: PRINT SCREEN Gentlemen, I am trying to find a neat little program in either MS-C or TP (or TC) that would simply trigger INTerrupt 5 (print screen). Any suggestions? I am all ears. George. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5426 06-21-88 05:11 (Read 97 times) from: CHARLES PERRIN to: GEORGE KOFMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: PRINT SCREEN Reply to #5417 I think that all three of the languages you mentioned have the ability to trigger interrupt #5 (or any interrupt). In TP, it is "intr", I'd have to look it up in MS-C (it's int86), and it is the (easier to remember) CALL INTERRUPT in QuickBasic... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5417 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5428 06-21-88 08:29 (Read 99 times) from: GEORGE KOFMAN to: CHARLES PERRIN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PRINT SCREEN Reply to #5426 Charles, do you know the exact syntax for the MS-C? Do I have to setup any registers (and to what values?) ? George >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5417 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5435 06-22-88 06:04 (Read 102 times) from: CHARLES PERRIN to: GEORGE KOFMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PRINT SCREEN Reply to #5428 I think for Interrupt 5, the register contents don't matter. Try: #include <dos.h> union REGS regs; main() { int86(5,®s,®s); } >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5417 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5436 06-22-88 09:38 (Read 103 times) from: GEORGE KOFMAN to: CHARLES PERRIN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PRINT SCREEN Reply to #5435 Thanks a bunch, I'll give it a try. BTW, I didn't realize that there was Madison in Alabama! We have one in WI also. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5417 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5437 06-22-88 21:39 (Read 102 times) from: CHARLES PERRIN to: GEORGE KOFMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PRINT SCREEN Reply to #5436 It's about (they don't know how big, they have more registered voters than the last census said residents!) 12,000 to 15,000 (guesses vary). It's a suburb of Huntsville. There are probably LOTS of Madisons out there, BTW.... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5417 reply #5 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5442 06-23-88 08:07 (Read 96 times) from: DALE ULMER to: CHARLES PERRIN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PRINT SCREEN Reply to #5437 You ought to have a quiet chat with Madison's leaders and tell them that having more registered voters than residents is not necessarily a matter to brag about. Chicago is famous for having more voters than residents too, but that has nothing to do with explosive growth. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5417 reply #6 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5443 06-23-88 08:57 (Read 95 times) from: GEORGE KOFMAN to: CHARLES PERRIN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PRINT SCREEN Reply to #5437 BTW, the int86(5,®,®); worked very well. Thank you. If you have any dbase/clipper/etc questions - just let me know. George. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5417 reply #7 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5450 06-24-88 06:07 (Read 98 times) from: CHARLES PERRIN to: DALE ULMER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PRINT SCREEN Reply to #5442 No, we don't do it the way Chicago does. We've had a LOT of growth. (And our voter levels don't go up with the cemetery occupancy....) >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5417 reply #8 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5419 06-20-88 14:31 (Read 98 times) from: DAVE ZIESMANN to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MICROSOFT QUICK-C Reply to #5414 It just so happens that the Microsoft personnel advised acquiring MSC 5.1. The only problem is cash is a little short at this time. And it wasn't the symbol table that was giving me problems, it was the linking process that wasn't giving me my symbolic information. Even with the /CO option problems occured. Also when compiled with MSC 4.0 the options /Zi, /Od failed. Thanks for your info, I'll just try something else. ========================================================================== Dave --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5424 06-20-88 22:36 (Read 100 times) from: TOM FELLER to: DAVE CLAY subject: R: MICROSOFT QUICK-C Reply to #5422 Dave, I was not the one that used periscope to try to debug the program, so it may have been the other programmers error not looking at the stack. He had very little assembly language experience and was the wrong one for the job. I don't know what version was being used. You do have to admit periscope requires good assembly language experience and it may be hard to see the problem as it relates to the "C" program. Tom Feller --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5430 06-21-88 17:04 (Read 106 times) from: DAVE ZIESMANN to: DAVE CLAY subject: R: MICROSOFT QUICK-C Reply to #5422 Thanks Dave, you have been extremely informative. Dave Z. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5424 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5431 06-21-88 18:41 (Read 105 times) from: JOE VINCENT to: DAVE CLAY subject: R: MICROSOFT QUICK-C Reply to #5422 Dave, your experience with Periscope is very interesting. I think I'll call their 800 number and ask for their demo disk. I've been using Codeview with QB 4.0, MSC 5.1 and MASM 5.1. I encountered a problem similar to the one you mentioned (Codeview unable to find source module). Since I'm not yet adept in using CV, I wasn't sure that it was CV rather than my inexperience. Re: QB not supporting far arrays. That's both true and not true. It's true that static arrays are near arrays and it's also true that QB passes arguments by near reference as the default. However, it's always possible to pass any argument by far reference by specifying the argument with the SEG keyword or by using CALLS rather than CALL. Dynamic arrays are ALWAYS far arrays, with an array descriptor being kept in the data segment and the actual array being stored elsewhere and referenced by a far address. In that sense, it's a far array. Since I write quite a bit of code in MSC and MASM which I call from QB, I just make every argument passed from QB a far reference and avoid the perplexity. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5424 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5429 06-21-88 08:40 (Read 106 times) from: ANDY WHITCROFT to: ALL subject: K&R PASCAL SOFTWARE TOOL Dear Fellow programmers, I am looking for the sources for the book 'software tools in pascal'. I am pretty sure that they are out there somewhere but can someone help help me find them. Andy. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5434 06-22-88 00:49 (Read 101 times) from: VIC BARON to: ALL subject: SPAWN BUG??? I've run into a problem and any help will be appreciated. Am using TURBOC v1.5 to write a specific type of accounting package. I have decided to use overlays using the spawn function in TC. Problem is simple. The programs run fine on the hard disk but on the floppy, the spawn function says it can't locate the overlay files. The program is coded such that it uses the default drive/directory and no drive or directory references or changes occur. Even tried booting from A:\ with same results. The last effort was to enter the program in the TurboC manual that demonstrates the spawn function and that does the same thing. When spawn() executes, it accesses the drive but returns a file not found error. Has anyone else run into this? Thanx, Vic --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5440 06-22-88 23:54 (Read 102 times) from: VIC BARON to: ALL subject: SPAWNBUG2 Reply to #5434 this is like answering my own message but in sheer frustration I called Borland and , lo! and behold! they know about the bug! THey are working on a permanent fix right now. The problem seems to be that the spawn function cannot find a file in the root dir of ANY disk unless it is in the path and you use spawnp to force a path search. V >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5434 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5438 06-22-88 22:28 (Read 128 times) from: BENTLY TURNER to: PAT BIESER (Rcvd) subject: R: DBASE III/CLIPPER Reply to #5111 I have experience using dBASE III+ and Clipper Summer '87 Software. I was wondering if you are still looking for programming help. I usually visit this board, but it's been a while since I've had a chance to hit the local BBSes in the area. I am a professional programmer and have done contract programming/consulting and training on both mainframe and P.C's. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5492 06-30-88 09:56 (Read 126 times) from: PAT BIESER to: BENTLY TURNER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DBASE III/CLIPPER Reply to #5438 Bently: Yes I will be looking for help, just not as soon as I expected. Can you leave you phone number for me in private mail, and I'll give you a call. Patrick >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5438 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5445 06-23-88 18:34 (Read 107 times) from: DAVE CLAY to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: MICROSOFT QUICK-C cc: JOE VINCENT cc: DAVE ZIESMANN Tom, I agree with you in that a high level language programmer can very easily get lost when debugging with a "high power" debugger. If inserting printf statements can do the job, that is the way to go. I know from experience, I do sometimes get lost. However, both Codeview and Periscope have options that I highly recommend. In Codeview, use the window command: VIEW, SOURCE (or C or BASIC, or FORTRAN, or whatever). Life is a WHOLE lot easier in debugging by stepping through the source code. In Periscope the command is: "US" No assembly knowledge is necessary when these tools are used in the source mode. One other comment for potential Periscope buyers, at the present time Periscope does not support OS/2. However, they do have an update policy that I wish Microsoft would adopt: the first update is FREE! You don't even have to send in a request, and the policy is good for more than one year. You also don't need an update every four months to fix bugs like some companies (grin). BTW, rumor has it that the author of Codeview left Microsoft several months ago to join Atron. I expect a new "user friendly" version of the Bugbuster any week now. I am sure Atron will support protected mode debugging and about anything else a fellow could want. Their starting price was around $100, but add another $100 for math coprocesser package, and another $100 for the NMI switch..... Recalling our comments, Tom, I agree that most programmers can get by without a fancy debugging tool. Using one of these tools takes time to learn. But, if a programmer finds himself (herself) getting into increasingly difficult situations, one of these debuggers can save a tremendous amount of precious time when things get real nasty. Philippe Kahn has said that without Atron there would never have been a Sidekick. Dave Clay --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5448 06-23-88 22:00 (Read 98 times) from: DAVE ZIESMANN to: DAVE CLAY (Rcvd) subject: R: MICROSOFT QUICK-C Reply to #5445 Thanks for your insight, I'll keep my eyes open in the software journals for any additional information. Dave >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5445 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5446 06-23-88 18:36 (Read 102 times) from: DAVE CLAY to: JOE VINCENT (Rcvd) subject: QB FAR CALLS Joe, Thanks for you comments on far calls from QB. You may be the only fellow around that has the answer for us! Below is a quip from our mess. When we compile in QB 4.0, we get a syntax error on line 100. If we remove the SEG from the X#, Y#, and A# arrays, then line 9200 gives a type mismatch error. If we remove all of the SEG's from line 100, and change line 9200 to CALL POLFIT... (not CALLS) we get a heap space error. Obviously, I don't know what I am doing or what to do next. If you have any suggestions, they would be greatly appreciated. 100 DECLARE SUB POLFIT (SEG MSIZE%,SEG X#(),SEG Y#(),SEG EPS#,SEG A#()) 110 ' FROM Pg 32, 145 QB REF. MANUAL ...... 1700 DIM X#(1 TO 200),Y#(1 TO 200),A#(1 TO 640) ...... 9100 ' NOW CALL FORTRAN SUBROUTINE POLFIT 9200 CALLS POLFIT (MSIZE%,X#(),Y#(),EPS#,A#()) ...... Thanks, Dave Clay --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5447 06-23-88 19:04 (Read 108 times) from: JOE VINCENT to: DAVE CLAY (Rcvd) subject: R: QB FAR CALLS Reply to #5446 Dave, I'll capture your message and try to replicate your problem offline. However, I do have one immediate observation. Since the "CALLS" causes ALL arguments to be passed by far reference, your DECLARE containing SEG keywords isn't going to do anything for you. A trick you can try, which will "turn off" argument type checking, is to specify no arguments in your DECLARE. BTW, in case any of your arrays are dynamic arrays, you should use a reference to your first array element as your array argument. That will cause the far address of the first array element to be passed (all that FORTRAN needs, anyway) rather than the far address of the array descriptor. If your array arguments are static (hence, near) arrays, it doesn't make any difference. Doesn't FORTRAN expect arguments to be passed by far reference? If so, that could account for your stack error when using CALL, since CALL passes all arguments by near reference unless otherwise specified in the DECLARE. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5446 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5449 06-23-88 22:09 (Read 95 times) from: BRUCE SHERMAN to: ALL subject: TP3.00 MEM AVAIL? . Using Turbopascal 3.0, how can I determine the amount of AVAILABLE RAM, as well as the amount of AVAILABLE DISK STORAGE, on a given drive? --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5451 06-24-88 07:52 (Read 99 times) from: STEVEN KEY to: BRUCE SHERMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: TP3.00 MEM AVAIL? Reply to #5449 I haven't written any such routines as you need to find available ram and disk space lately, so I can't give you the answer off the top of my head. You will need to use some DOS calls to get the information about disk space and the Memavail function will tell you how many 16 byte blocks are available in the heap. The DOS tech ref manual or a good DOS programming book such as Ray Duncan's Advanced MSDOS is what you need for the diskspace answer. Good luck. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5449 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5459 06-24-88 19:53 (Read 100 times) from: THOMAS ATKINSON to: BRUCE SHERMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: TP3.00 MEM AVAIL? Reply to #5449 In Mahoney i think there is a file titled 'FREERAM.???' which is TP3 source for ram available... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5449 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5467 06-25-88 21:19 (Read 101 times) from: BRUCE SHERMAN to: STEVEN KEY (Rcvd) subject: R: R: TP3.00 MEM AVAIL? Reply to #5451 Thomas Atkinson recommended FREERAM.ARC, which includes source in Turbopascal. It did the trick! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5449 reply #3 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5452 06-24-88 08:40 (Read 99 times) from: GEORGE KOFMAN to: PAT BIESER (Rcvd) subject: PLINK86 OVERLAYS cc: JOHN GRANT Pat, I understand that you do dBASE, and assume you do Clipper. I am having problems trying to create overlays with Plink86 from the Summer '87 release. I tell Plink86 to create external overlays, but it creates them as internal. All I want to do is to change 343K of executable to run in 256K of RAM. If you or John (or anyone else) know of a solution or a fix (or sample @???.lnk file, etc) please let me know. Thanks in advance. George M. Kofman P.S. If you can, will you please reply on this board as opposed to referring me to another board, since I don't BBS after 5:00pm. George. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5453 06-24-88 11:03 (Read 101 times) from: JOHN GRANT to: GEORGE KOFMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: PLINK86 OVERLAYS Reply to #5452 First, I doubt if a compiled dBASE executable that large could EVER be overlayed to get it to run in 256K. But Plink can reduce your memory requirement somewhat. I trust Clipper has a link-file builder in its compiler. I use QS and instructed it to create one overlay and this is what it gave me: OUTPUT SOAP.EXE section = ROOT file SOAP.OBJ, SOAP00.OBJ, SOAP01.OBJ, SOAP02.OBJ, SOAP03.OBJ, SOAP04.OBJ, ROOT0000.OBJ, ROOT0001.OBJ, ROOT0002.OBJ, ROOT0003.OBJ, ROOT0004.OBJ SEARCH QSPC1.LIB, QSPC2.LIB, QS.LIB begin section = OVL1 into SOAP.OVL file OVL10000.OBJ, OVL10001.OBJ, OVL10002. OBJ, OVL10003.OBJ, OVL10004.OBJ, OVL10005.OBJ, OVL10006.OBJ, OVL10007.OBJ, OVL10008. OBJ section = OVL2 file OVL20000.OBJ section = OVL3 file OVL30000.OBJ, OVL30001.OBJ section = OVL4 file OVL40000.OBJ section = OVL5 file OVL50000.OBJ section = OVL6 file OVL60000.OBJ end Note the "section = OVL1 into SOAP.OVL." If you can't tell Clipper to create external overlays, edit your link file to change that. But, the thing is, internal and external overlays act identically except that external reside as separate files. The memory requirements are no different. AND, the external ones may even slow down your applications if ol' DOS has to hunt for them in a populous directory. My larger (and larger) dBASE applications are forcing me to consider lower level languages for development. Clipper and QS load so many routines into their root files than you can hardly create overlays large enough by comparison to reduce memory requirements that much, except in extremely large applications. Low level languages take better advantage of overlays. BTW, how much less memory does your internally-overlayed executable save versus plain LINK.EXE. QS once boasted (albeit in a redme file) that 150K could be shaved off in LARGE applications. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5452 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5455 06-24-88 16:21 (Read 99 times) from: GEORGE KOFMAN to: JOHN GRANT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PLINK86 OVERLAYS Reply to #5453 John, Thanks much. I will give it a try. George. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5452 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5463 06-24-88 23:56 (Read 103 times) from: JOHN GRANT to: GEORGE KOFMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PLINK86 OVERLAYS Reply to #5455 Just out of curiosity... 1. Does Clipper generate a Plink-able link-file? 2. Were you jiving me about not BBSing after 5:00 or were you trying to keep me from blabbing about my poor but honest dBASE board? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5452 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5476 06-27-88 08:15 (Read 101 times) from: GEORGE KOFMAN to: JOHN GRANT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PLINK86 OVERLAYS Reply to #5463 John, to satisfy your curiosity: 1. Clipper does generate PLINK86-ABLE/MSLINKABLE (I just created a new word!). The trouble is that if you have ANY questions regarding Clipper or any of its supporting products (read: PLINK86), Nauntaket asks you for your Credit Card #. Very disturbing. WordPerfect, on the other hand, doesn't even ask for your Serial Number. Amazing... 2. Regarding not B-BSing (or BBSing, or any other combination of...): I have a 2400baud modem at the office, and a 1200baud at home. I really don't like to use my 1200baud since I consider it too slow. Also, when I am at home, I work on my programming projects that I can't work on at the office. Which sort of limits my B-BS/BBSing time to before 5:00pm. Thanks for your reply. Keep in dTOUCH. George. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5452 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5478 06-27-88 19:14 (Read 100 times) from: CHARLES PERRIN to: GEORGE KOFMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PLINK86 OVERLAYS Reply to #5476 WPCORP finds it gets people off the phone faster and 99.999% of those who called were legitimate.... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5452 reply #5 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5493 06-30-88 10:05 (Read 107 times) from: PAT BIESER to: GEORGE KOFMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: PLINK86 OVERLAYS Reply to #5452 George. A few thougths. First, I haven't had the occassion yet to create overlays. Talk to me again in August. Second, I belive the minimum .exe for summer '87 clipper is around 192K. I think you are going to have a devil of a time getting 325K? .exe into 256K RAM, overlays aside. When I've had this problem before I've upgraded my clients computer to 640K - no more problem. Depending upon how many files and buffers you need, you have additional problems getting all that information into 256K. Remember, you have to use part of that 256K for DOS. My uneducated guees would be, forget it. Can't be done. Your going to need more memory. Patrick. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5452 reply #6 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5454 06-24-88 14:07 (Read 98 times) from: MARK GINSBERG to: ALL subject: SERIAL VIA BIOS Help... I am probably the last person who woke up to this type of a mess using serial IO. I am writing a driver to stuff information out the serial port of a PC. The device I am talking to signals buffer full by dropping DSR (or CTS depending on the cable I am using). I have written the driver to use bios calls. I open the port with intr$14,0 no problem. Then, each time I have a char to send, I use intr$14,3 until the CTS, DSR and Transmit hold bits read high, then I use $14,1 (2?) to stuff the char. This works until the receiving device drops DSR. My machine stops sending stuff and resumes when DSR comes back up, no problem. But drops 1 or 2 chars in the transition somehow. What in the world is going on? Am I supposed to be disabling interupts as I mess with the port? The box on the other end sends no chars, just toggles DSR. Is this a "feature" of the USART? Anyone know? --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5460 06-24-88 19:55 (Read 99 times) from: THOMAS ATKINSON to: MARK GINSBERG (Rcvd) subject: R: SERIAL VIA BIOS Reply to #5454 Take a look at the FOSSIL.ARC or FOSSIL something in Mahoney. It uses all you mentioned and may add some more... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5454 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5465 06-25-88 08:10 (Read 105 times) from: DAVID NYE to: MARK GINSBERG (Rcvd) subject: R: SERIAL VIA BIOS Reply to #5454 Your problem may be in the sluggish performance of the INT 14 routines. I found I lost one or two characters because of input overrun each time the screen scrolled. If I cleared the screen first, no problem. Almost any application that I know of that uses serial I/O bypasses INT 14 and uses its own interrupt driven code. See Ray Duncan's Advanced MSDOS p. 98 for a discussion of this and an example program TALK.ASM, or Joe Campbell's Crafting C Tools for the IBM PCs Ch. 16 for the relevant C code. This is one (more) area where MSDOS is extremely weak. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5454 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5474 06-26-88 23:41 (Read 99 times) from: TOM FELLER to: MARK GINSBERG (Rcvd) subject: R: SERIAL VIA BIOS Reply to #5454 Don't use the BIOS. Get a good communications library that talks to the UART. Our company uses Blaise C Asynch Manager. TurboC and MSC is supported. If you are using Pascal, Blaise has a library for that. The C library costs $135 through The Programmers Connection. For Turbo Pascal $99, MS Pascal $135. We had a in house assembly program with bugs. To save time we got the library. It has more functions than we will ever use including Hayes support. For high speed communications the interupt driven software used by Blaise is the only way to go. Speeds up to 9600 baud supported. Tom Feller >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5454 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5477 06-27-88 10:22 (Read 102 times) from: MARK GINSBERG to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: SERIAL VIA BIOS Reply to #5474 cc: DAVID NYE cc: THOMAS ATKINSON Thank you, Messers. Atkinson, Nye, and Feller. I will follow up on all suggestions. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5454 reply #4 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5457 06-24-88 18:09 (Read 105 times) from: BENTLY TURNER to: ALL subject: C LANGUAGE I am an experienced programmer using COBOL, BASIC, RBASE, DBASE, CLIPPER. However I have developed an interest in learning the C Language. I have some questions for you C-literate pros: 1) Given that there are several versions of C (Microsoft, Turbo, Power...) What is different about them? lso what should I look for in choosing a version of C? Any recommendations are welcome. 2) I would like to be taught C in some sort of structured learning environment. Are the any formal C courses available at local colleges, universities, technical & vocational schools? If yes, where and when are courses taught? 3) There e many books on C programming in the Computer Section of local computer bookstores. I would like recommendations of good books which are geared at a novice, containing practical programming examples, and could be used to learn the language (... Not something super technical) Thanks, Bently Turner --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5458 06-24-88 18:38 (Read 109 times) from: DEAN ROTH to: BENTLY TURNER (Rcvd) subject: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5457 Hi, Bently! (This is THE Bently Turner of CGA, no?) RE: C compilers The criteria for selecting a C compiler varies with the indended use(s). From your message I assume you want a C compiler for MS DOS for home/learning usage. I suggest you consider: 1. Meets ANSI "std." (or the latest rumors 8-) 2. Source code level debugger 3. A price you like 4. Availability of third party function libraries (such as for graphics). 5. Microsoft object file/module compatible I believe the two leading PC C compilers are Turbo C and Microsoft's. Turbo still lacks a source code debugger. (Unless one was released in the last two weeks and I didn't notice.) There is a *big* price difference. I have not had a chance to use Turbo C, but for "home" use, I recommend it. For "playing" at home, I have Microsoft's compiler - because TC did not exist when I wanted my own C compiler. As for books, I keep looking for one that presents the language AND how to design software systems. All books I've seen thus far cover writing a function or two, but not how to use C (especially the preprocessor) when creating hundreds and thousands of functions. I occassionally teach C, and I keep look for "THE" book. -Dean >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5461 06-24-88 23:15 (Read 108 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: BENTLY TURNER (Rcvd) subject: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5457 Bently, Like you, I got interested in C (i.e. I was wondering "Wazzit this C is all about), after years of Mainframe Cobol, ALC, and micro DBASE, BASIC (just enough to avoid later), PASCAL (derived from an early exposure to ALGOL 60). So, I think I can suggest what worked for me ... it might be the same for you. Compiler: I got TurboC thru 1.5 - I suggest TC1.5 - best bang for learning $ spent. I thik it covers Dean Roth's criteria very well. It's available from mail order places for as low as $64 (list $99) - and I think it's a better starting point than MS Quick C (absense of fancy debugger in TC nowithstanding - you don't ned that level of tool to get going) Books: For learing whazzit this C is all about in a structured context, Dean is right, there is no best book. Here are what I used besides the Borland Doc/Books on C itself: C - by Kerrighan and Ritchie - The CLASSIC (Not really a bad place to start, but it does need supplementing) The full title is: The C Programming Language C Programming Guide, by Jack Purdum - published by the Q Corporation in Indianapolis, IN I have an early edition - and I note that it has been updated since I bought it. I first dabbled in C on a VAX w/VMS with only the VMS/C ref manual ,,, and forgot almost everything aftr a diversion back to mainframe land and ALC + Proj Mgmt. The books I listed above were good for a restart =- almost from scratch. Have fun! Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5464 06-25-88 07:19 (Read 110 times) from: CHARLES PERRIN to: BENTLY TURNER (Rcvd) subject: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5457 As to getting into C inexpensively, I'd probably recommend Microsoft Quick C for the debugging capabilities. (Although I'd say TC has a bit better library, compiles faster, and can handle a single array bigger than 64K....) As to a book, Microsoft Press has introduced one and I'm always impressed by their books.... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5469 06-26-88 00:12 (Read 110 times) from: MARK TELLIER (LEADER) to: BENTLY TURNER (Rcvd) subject: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5457 Bently, If your looking for a formal course, I would recommend the UW Extension's course on (get this) The C Programming Language. Usually runs each fall at least on one campus in the MKE area. - mwt - >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5479 06-28-88 21:04 (Read 103 times) from: BENTLY TURNER to: DEAN ROTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5458 Hi Dean, Yes it's me from CGA inquiring about C. You mentioned that you MicroSoft C compiler. Can you tell me how it differs from MicroSoft Quick C. I've gotten some literature about Quick C. If you had the available products that exist now to select from, which would you select? You mentioned that you occassionally teach C, when and where do you do this? I've checked around for local class on C and found that MATC is going to offer a C programming course this fall. They are using C on a mainframe and the product is called Waterloo C. Have you heard of this dialect of C? If so, what can you tell me about it? Thanks, Bently Turner P.S. Where are you now? I am currently awaiting assignment (BENCH). >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #5 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5480 06-28-88 21:13 (Read 102 times) from: BENTLY TURNER to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5461 Hello Grant, Thanks for the feedback concerning selection of C compiler and books. I am looking at Turbo C and MicroSoft Quick C as my possible choices. Like you I plan to go mail order for my purchase. You mentioned that you felt Turbo C is a better starting point than Quick C. Can you elaborate Why? As far as the book titles you've mentioned, I am examining them with a host of others. I'll take my time evaluating them. How does the text that Borland sends with Turbo C rate? What types of books do you get, are they pretty clear to understand, accurate, and contain good explanations, and examples? I've learned that MATC will be offering a C Programming course this fall. They are running C on a mainframe and are using something call Waterloo C. I've heard of Waterloo Basic, but not C. How long have you spent learning C? Have you been doing it in self-study mode or have you received any instruction. Be Waiting To Hear From You, Bently Turner >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #6 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5481 06-28-88 21:20 (Read 102 times) from: BENTLY TURNER to: CHARLES PERRIN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5464 Hi Charles, Thanks for replying to my C message. You indicated that you liked MicroSoft Quick C because of debugging capabilities. I've learned that Turbo C is lacking the debugger. How much does Turbo C's library differ from Quick C? In terms of compiling faster how significant is t difference? I too, have some of MicroSoft Press's publications and like them alot. How long have you been programming in C and where did you learn? The reason I ask is that I want to determine if I should consider teaching myself and the debugging facility would be nice to have. Thanks again, Bently Turner >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #7 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5482 06-28-88 21:24 (Read 104 times) from: BENTLY TURNER to: MARK TELLIER (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5469 Hello Mark, I went to check on C Programming course at U.W.- Extension and they did not have anything indicating that the course would be offered again this fall. I went Downtown (was that the correct place to go?). However, I also went to MATC and found that they will be running a C programming class this fall. They will be using Waterloo C running off mainframe. Did you take course at U.W. - Extension or did you know someone who did? Also does UW offer it each year? Thanks, Bently Turner >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #8 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5484 06-29-88 02:29 (Read 109 times) from: DAVID NYE to: BENTLY TURNER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5479 I don't think you will go wrong getting either Turbo C or Quick C. The main advantage of Quick C at the moment is that it has a debugger, but Borland is apparently on the verge of releasing a debugger for Turbo C, and there is a shareware one available (I haven't used it so I can't tell you whether it's any good or not, but it's on this board somewhere). Microsoft C 5.1 is more than twice as expensive as either of the above packages and probably isn't worth the extra bucks for a hobbyist or student. You might also look at Power C by Mix Software for only $19.95 with a debugger for the same price available separately. It is, according to their ad in the July Byte, a full ANSI implementation. Mark Williams Co.'s Let's C is another good entry level choice for about $50 by mail order, nice debugger included. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #9 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5485 06-29-88 05:09 (Read 109 times) from: CHARLES PERRIN to: BENTLY TURNER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5481 I mainly taught myself C (the reason the debugger is so useful) although I'm probably more of a BASIC programmer.... (if C only had a CRUN like Basic had a BRUN....) >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #10 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5486 06-29-88 18:00 (Read 110 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: BENTLY TURNER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5480 Bently, You are asking for the whole grocery store! Well, let met try to fill the order... 1. Why turboC pver QC for startup ... o More functions delivered with the product - graphics and directory manipulations o I preferred TC's integrated environment to QC's o More other utilities (MAKE, GREP, others) o ALL memory models fully supported This is particularly important if you have limited disk space, learning by developing small, but possibly useful programs, you want to learn the innards of the 80xxx architechture, etc.. QC does NOT support the much despised tiny model; TC finally got act together and made theirs work. Tiny model programs may be stored as .COM files which take up less space on disk than .EXE files. o Why endorse MS products and contribute to their usurious pricing policies when equivalent products are available from other vendors at equal or lower prices? 2. Borland send 2 (3) books with the compiler, a general users guide, a reference manual, and (for v 1.5) an upgrade summary with reference gude to TC 1.5 functions (library functions, that is) - note, the 2nd book, the reference manual, is the library function reference guide; it also contains other useful DOS related info. THe user's guide helps you learn c by example IF you have worked with PASCAL - otherwise, it is NOT a guide to how to organize and write C programs. Whether you get QC or TC, you will need some kind of general C language programming guide - the lit i suggested to you will provide some of that. 3. The Borland books for TC 1.5 are slightly above average, in my opinion. The C Programming Guide by Purdom is the best of the one's I've spent time looking at. But, there are some good TC and QC oriented books published by the Waite Group , among others, which may be more suited to your purposes. 4. Except for those books I've mentioned and 2 advanced reference manuals, I have not bought or borrowed C books. I've done better getting general computer science books which don't go too far over my head - such as "Reliable Software through Composite Design" by Glenford Myers or books on Data Structures and Programming techniques. The heavily mathematical and theorem-proof oriented texts loose me completely - and can make me want to return to my 1st profession - truck driving. And that's even tho I know I am out of shape for hauling heavy stuff around. 5. I learn C, or any other Computer Programming tool (language or cpu architecture) by self-discipline and self-study ... trying to apply what I think I've figured out to pratical problems at hand. I prob- ably miss a lot of esoteric and obscure details that way, but I am able to focus on using the tool and learn what I need to know when I need to know it --- get something done a little faster that way. I've found that a good understanding of techniques and a willingness to translate from 1 language to another for implementation adds to one's flexibility and re-enforces one's ability to learn - that is, if you learn how to learn, then you can learn anything in a given specialty and more easily be prepared for change you cannot control. It took me about 2 mos. of after work / week-end time (120 hrs or less) to learn enough to crank out reasonably good and sometimes sophisticated C code - I borrowed concepts of programming constructs and data structure manipulation from thing I'd done or had seen done in other languages (from mainframe assembler to micro-pascal) Waterloo group has been producing first class programming tools since the early 70's. I well remember how impressed I was with their Waterloo G assembler for the IBM mainframe. The Waterloo C compiler is supposed to be a very good one for the VM/CMS (IBM Mainframe)/\. I recently bought the Waterloo WATCOM 6.0 c optimizing compilier for the PC. See my remarks elsewhere in this conference on WATCOM C, if you are interested. I hope the full shopping bag here fills your order, sir. Have a good time whatever you choose to do! Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #11 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5487 06-29-88 21:09 (Read 110 times) from: DEAN ROTH to: BENTLY TURNER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5479 Bently, Quick C was a "freebee" with the Microsoft C 5.0 update. I tried it and threw it away. I used the "integrated" environment and ran into too many limitations. (When I program I want to code/compile/run, not be hassled by the development software.) If I was to select a DOS C compiler today, my first choice would be MS's "optimizing" compiler. It is the only one I suggest for business creating creating PC software. (The libraries are good enough that I've been able to easily port PC software to UNIX and vice versa.) The compiler has caught errors that have slipped by other compilers (and programmers). I have not used (or seen) Turbo C, so I cannot say anything about it. It might be my second choice, if I knew more about it. Many have said it is a great compiler/library. Borland has not yet (as far as I know) released a source code debugger. I don't care about source code debuggers, and don't use the MS's CodeView. Usage of function prototypes will prevent most errors, in my opinion. The C classes I teach are not open to the public. I am scheduled to present an intro to C for CGA employees this fall. For "serious" C programmers, I recommend you first learn assembly language. I don't ask one to program in assembler, but learn processor architectures and instruction sets. But being able to read assembly language can help one gain great insights about C. (How many times have I debugged a problem to determine the compiler screwed up? Too many times. I have not met a C compiler that I cannot "break" with legal C.) I don't recommend learning C using a mainframe - especially an IBM mainframe. Those systems have too many quirks that you have to deal with besides handling a new language. (I think Waterloo C runs on an IBM mainframe. I may be wrong.) -Dean >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #12 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5489 06-30-88 00:04 (Read 109 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: DEAN ROTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5487 Dean, FYI on Waterloo C ... WatCom seems to have C-COmpilers for the IBM Mainframe VM/CMS and MVS environments (going by name of Waterloo C); they have also released WATCOM C 6.0 (and now 6.5, I see in a recent ad in CL). The VM/CMS environment is not a real bad one to debug C (or other) programs in. It's not as nice as VAX/VMS w/SDA and DEBUG or MicroPC w/ many debuggers. But it is usable. MVS is a mess from the rear of a different horse. In general, I've been quite impressed with the quality of Waterloo products for several years. ANd Watcom C for the IBM PC series produces very acceptable results (optimized) -but its compile time is a bit too slow for real use on a less than AT model. See my remarks elsewhere in this conference on Watcom C 6.0. Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #13 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5490 06-30-88 07:29 (Read 111 times) from: MARK TELLIER (LEADER) to: BENTLY TURNER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5482 I took the course at UW-Extension about 3 three years ago. I know its been run since then a number of times. I now work at the same company as the instructor of the course (at the time I took it). I will ask him if he knows about the offering of the course. I remember seeing the course listing in the last year in the Milw. Journal special section on education that they do every now and then. I'll let you know. - mwt - >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #14 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5495 06-30-88 19:14 (Read 117 times) from: DEAN ROTH to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5489 Grant, or somebody, if you are a user of Turbo C, please check out the Turbo C source code debugger that is in the Mahoney file section. I do not have TC and cannot evaluate the (non-Borland) debugger, but I'd like to know what it is like, how it compares to Codeview, dbx, etc. (I did not upload the file. I received a copy via USENET.) My (pk)arced copy is about 3000 bytes smaller than the freshly uploaded version on EXEC PC. -Dean >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #15 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5505 07-01-88 20:56 (Read 114 times) from: DEAN ROTH to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5503 Grant, The TC debugger I have is TCdebug version 1.01 by L. David Baldwin. -Dean >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #16 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5506 07-01-88 21:30 (Read 114 times) from: PHIL KATZ to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5489 Grant, How would you say Watcom C's compile times are compared to the MSC "cl" full-blown compiler compile times?? >Phil> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #17 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5516 07-02-88 21:50 (Read 108 times) from: EDWARD MARCH to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5506 Phil, See computer langauge june 1988 page 135 for a watcom c vs TC & MSC review... -- Ed -- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #18 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5517 07-02-88 21:57 (Read 106 times) from: EDWARD MARCH to: DEAN ROTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5487 Hi Dean, Give Turbo C a try, it might make teaching easier it has a great user interface too .... well worth the price -- $58 discount I agree with you opiion on quick C... --Ed >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #19 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5530 07-04-88 07:51 (Read 107 times) from: BENTLY TURNER to: DAVID NYE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5484 I've gotten literature on bothe MicroSoft Quick C and Turbo C. From what I've read, it does seem like it is a toss-up as to which product to get. I'm leaning toward Quick C because of it's debugger. I would like to have that facility as an integrated part of the package. I will probably go mail-order for it and am in the process of finding lowest possible price. Thanks for your response, Bently Turner >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #20 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5531 07-04-88 07:54 (Read 107 times) from: BENTLY TURNER to: CHARLES PERRIN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5485 I am gonna go with MicroSoft Quick C because of integrated debugger. I also found that one of the local technical sools is offering a C programming course this fall which I plan to enroll in. You mentioned that you wish C had a CRUN like BASIC's BRUN (Why?) Bently Turner >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #21 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5532 07-04-88 08:09 (Read 109 times) from: BENTLY TURNER to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5486 Grant, Thanks for the indepth grocery list......... 1) I have been comparing features of MicroSoft Quick C and Turbo C and I am leaning toward Quick C mainly because of debugging facility being integrated with it. I have plenty of disk space so space not an issue. You are correct when you say MicroSoft's pricing is a bit steep, but I've found that Turbo C tends to be more expensive (at least in the places I've looked which include mail-order houses). 2) I have been reviewing many general purpose C programming language guides and have zeroed in on 2 or 3 which I will use to supplement the documentation with Quick C. Before I actually purchase any of these I want to review the documentation that comes with the package so that I can make the best choice. 3) One of the books I am looking at getting is from the WAITE Group. I agree that it does look like a good one to buy. 4) I've found that one of the local technical schools is gonna offer a C programming class this fall. I plan on enrolling in the course. Of course I will also supplement class with my own self-study using my reference books as a source of learning. In addition I will take some BASIC language programs that I have written and convert them to C. This exercise will help reinforce the various programming structures (i.e. Loops, Decision-making, Case, Subroutines, etc.). I have yet to read your comments about Waterloo WATCOM C Compiler, but I will and I'll let you know what I think. Thanks for your assistance, Bently Turner >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #22 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5534 07-04-88 08:23 (Read 111 times) from: BENTLY TURNER to: MARK TELLIER (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5490 Mark, I appreciate you looking into the U.W. - Extension C Programming Course for me. Anything you can find out about it will be a great help. Can you tell me if the course is/was geared at mainframe and PC computers? Do you know which version of C language is/was being taught I will keep an eye open for Milwaukee Journal Listing like you said. Thanks again. Bently Turner >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #23 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5535 07-04-88 09:25 (Read 112 times) from: MARK TELLIER (LEADER) to: BENTLY TURNER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5534 Bently, The guy at work that used to teach the course is gone next week. I will ask him what he knows about the C course at UW-Ext. when he returns 7/11. - mwt - >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #24 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5536 07-04-88 18:07 (Read 109 times) from: CHARLES PERRIN to: BENTLY TURNER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5531 Because the BRUN has all the run-time and you don't have to put it into every .EXE file. It helps save disk space and keeps me using QuickBasic a LOT.... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #25 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5537 07-04-88 23:45 (Read 106 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: CHARLES PERRIN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5536 Charles, The comments about BRUN don't make a lot of sense to me. The C library modules aren't all that large (compared to Basic). I always prefer having a program in one module if possible since it prevents forgetting to copy the runtime. Have you ever copied a program for somebody and forgot to copy BRUN.EXE too? With C I only have to include those routines that I need. With Basic and BRUN you have to carry along the whole toolbox. So my simple little C utility might take only 5k of disk space. If I've got 20 of them on the disk I still haven't used up as much space as BRUN. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #26 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5539 07-05-88 04:50 (Read 107 times) from: CHARLES PERRIN to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5537 Evidently your "simple little utilities" don't use floating point. Two or three floating point processing modules (in either C or Basic) is about the size of BRUN. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #27 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5544 07-05-88 17:12 (Read 106 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: DEAN ROTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5505 Dean,,, tcdebug v1.01 matches name and author or what I downloaded. I'll get back to you with comments asx soon as I can test it out. The doc suggests that it has many (if not most) of hte featurres in codeview. GE >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #28 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5545 07-05-88 17:25 (Read 106 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5506 Phil, based on the published stats and comparision of msc 4.0 to wc, I'd say s--l--o--w--e--r (intolerably so on an 8086/8 4.77 mhz model - and about acceptable on a 10 mhz 80286 model). But, oh gawd, the generated code for compute bound problems is soooo much faster! I recommend that an interested developer get TC or QC for quick development of the essentials and use #defines / #ifdefs, etc., to accomodate some i/o function and memory manipulation differences in name/argument parmater order. Then when satisfied with the results... set up a MAKE run , start it up, turn off monitor, go to an all night party(or longer), sober up, sleep it off, and then the WCX code will be ready to run. (I don't have access to msc 5.0/1, so I can't be precise just yet on the difference in compile time - I just had some exe code to compare the run results with) ,, Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #29 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5546 07-05-88 17:36 (Read 109 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: BENTLY TURNER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5532 Bently, you aren't going wrong by choosing QC. You may even find the integrated debugger interesting and a learning aid. For your info, on price comparison, the Programmer's Connection in Columbus OH (or nearby), was offering TC 1.5 for $64 on myh last check-out. I have heard of prices as low as $58. Also,I think QC supports only the small model (or did) but I'm not sure - check that out before you commit the $$$ - I found the small model insufficient for even my learing experiments. Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #30 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5549 07-05-88 21:47 (Read 103 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: CHARLES PERRIN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5539 Charles, If I really need floating point, I generate inline 80x87 code for it. Much faster and much smaller. Don't you remember the comments about real programmers? "Real Programmers (Phil Katz) don't use floating point. That's for stress freaks that write in Fortran." I do try to avoid floating point if possible. Of course, it rarely comes up in my work. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #31 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5552 07-05-88 22:51 (Read 110 times) from: BENTLY TURNER to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5546 Yeah, I figured that selecting Quick C would not be a bad choice. I just think that the debugger would be interesting and useful as a learning aid. What do you mean when you talk about the "small model"? Be waiting to hear from you, Bently >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #32 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5553 07-05-88 22:54 (Read 108 times) from: BENTLY TURNER to: MARK TELLIER (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5535 Mark, Thanks for working at getting me some answers about UW-Ext C course. Let me know when you get anything from your co-worker. Bently >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #33 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5554 07-05-88 22:57 (Read 108 times) from: BENTLY TURNER to: CHARLES PERRIN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5536 Charles, Thanks for making me BRUN literate. I am in processing of looking at MicroSoft QuickBasic and I can see the value of it. Bently >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #34 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5555 07-06-88 05:33 (Read 110 times) from: CHARLES PERRIN to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5546 cc: BENTLY TURNER Grant and Bently Turner, In interactive development, QC supports only the MEDIUM model for code (many code segments, one data segment). In QCL (traditional compiler mode), one may write in either SMALL, MEDIUM, COMPACT, or LARGE. The only thing is one module may use only 64K code and 64K data. Perfect programmers can use TC and write HUGE arrays (64K per array, if I remember right) or upgrade to MSC ($$$) and have debuggability.... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #35 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5556 07-06-88 05:36 (Read 109 times) from: CHARLES PERRIN to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5549 Actually, I prefer doing floating-point math in scaled BCD arrays. (How about 1,000,000 places on "e"?) I did "pi" to 2048 places on a CP/M machine with two floppies back in 1984.... I might get some time to work math as I'm going to get away from the overtime for a while (until they decide they don't like the NEW schedule....). >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #36 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5558 07-06-88 06:56 (Read 112 times) from: BOB BLAIR to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5545 cc: PHIL KATZ Grant & Phil, This week's COMPUTERWORLD has a piece several paragraphs long contending that LOTUS is switching to the WATCOM C compiler 'cause of the more compact code primarily and also faster execution. Claims benefits from 7 - 30 % in code size. Guess LOTUS 3.0 needs it. Bob >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #37 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5561 07-06-88 16:28 (Read 110 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: BENTLY TURNER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5552 Bently ... >what do you mean when you talk about the "small model"? I think that if I tried to answer that quewstion here, I'd be typing for a good while. What I suggest you do is look at the TC and/or MSC books on book store shelves and quickly scan the sections on memory models. It should make sense. Unless some of our colleagues here have a good quick hip-pocket explanation they'd like to take a crack at presenting ... Grant] >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #38 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5562 07-06-88 16:30 (Read 110 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: CHARLES PERRIN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5555 Charles, thanks for the clarification on the QC integrated environment limitations. TC does NOT suffere in that regard. And we could debate the improtance of a debugger indefinitely with no resolution. Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #39 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5565 06-06-88 23:20 (Read 112 times) from: BENTLY TURNER to: CHARLES PERRIN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5555 Thanks for insight into Quick C model support. Good technical stuff to be aware of. Bently >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #40 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5566 06-06-88 23:21 (Read 114 times) from: BENTLY TURNER to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5561 I'll take your advice and scan sections on memory models for C programming. Bently >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #41 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5567 06-06-88 23:57 (Read 115 times) from: EDWARD MARCH to: DEAN ROTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5543 Dean, Yes I agree I'd like to see Borland get into the unix mrket too. I personally think os/2 will be a flop, and ms-dos 4.0 or 5.x or a third party product will take over in the next few years CL july has a neat article "WHY OS/2 WILL FAIL!" I agreed before reading it too.... I personally like to see a unix and vms os, each have there own problems unix is old and no thought was put in for windows etc... MAC has the windows with a poor OS, but a nice user interface, -some day some one will get it all together ! c-ya -Ed >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #42 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5581 07-07-88 02:21 (Read 118 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: CHARLES PERRIN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5556 Charles, One correction on C memory models. Large models can have elements (arrays, structures, etc) up to 64k. In the Huge model, they can be any size. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #43 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5582 07-07-88 07:50 (Read 118 times) from: CHARLES PERRIN to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5581 Large is even better than I had it.... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #44 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5591 07-08-88 21:50 (Read 124 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: DEAN ROTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5505 Dean, re: TCDEB101 .. Codeview has richer functionality and fancier screens. TCDEBUG, however, seems quite usable and does have many of the same functions/features found in codeview. Ihaven't had the time or the appropriate problem, yet, to give it a thorough shakedown. I've either gone primitive with debugging via printf stmts, or have compiled with asm source output and run am/link results into codeview/symdeb which I got with my masm 5.0. I am more adept at using symdebug than codeview right now. It is kinda crude, but it does work. Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #45 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5592 07-08-88 21:54 (Read 124 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: BOB BLAIR (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5558 Bob, It's no joke --- Watcom C Optimizing Compiler seems to do the best optimizing job of any of the available commercial compilers. I've sen this with the code I've passed thru it. Now, for ful utility, Lotus must have a lot of 286 or 386 machines with 10+ Mhz to do their compiles. WC on this plain old pc just does not make it. Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #46 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5606 07-11-88 07:55 (Read 111 times) from: BOB BLAIR to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5592 Grant, ow all I have to do is move to LOTUS hq and pick up their "old" MS 5.1 compilers and I'm in business. Bob >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #47 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5616 07-11-88 23:39 (Read 111 times) from: MARK TELLIER (LEADER) to: BENTLY TURNER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5553 Bently, I checked on the UW-Ext. course with the guy at work. IT is INDEED being offered this FALL regardless of what you heard. You need to call Sandy at the downtown UW-Ext. office, let me find a number ....... try 227-3175. If you don't get anywhere with that, give Mike Wagner a call at 274-4230. He is the person who teaches the course. He will be able to get the information for you, if its not available elsewhere. - mwt - >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #48 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5624 07-12-88 22:36 (Read 111 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: BOB BLAIR (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5606 Bob, yep! good idea! And ship me an extra. I love experimenting with soon-to-be-archaic overpriced software ... Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #49 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5667 07-15-88 20:04 (Read 106 times) from: BENTLY TURNER to: MARK TELLIER (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5616 Mark, Thank you for checking on the UW-EXT C Programming Course. I will be following up by calling the numbers you gave me. I will keep you posted as to my progress. Bently >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #50 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5845 08-02-88 21:59 (Read 108 times) from: MARK TELLIER (LEADER) to: BENTLY TURNER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5667 Bently, I noticed that Marquette is offering a course titled "Introduction to 'C' Programming". It was listed in a special section for MU in this Sunday's paper. The class run 8 Wednesdays, Oct. 19th to Dec. 14th. Cost is (by my opinion) a little high: $265 or $243 if registered before Oct. 14th. Fee includes in class lab time, floppy disks and materials. Meets from 3:30 to 6pm, which makes is tough for any one with a normal job. Course No. is BL965 and is worth 2.0 CEU's. As an aside, I just finished my MSEE degree at MU and have anything but good recommendations about their MS program. Night classes and/or undergrad studies may be different, but I can't speak to these. - mwt - >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #51 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5846 08-02-88 23:09 (Read 109 times) from: BENTLY TURNER to: MARK TELLIER (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5845 Mark, It's good to hear from you...I got the information concerning the C Programming Course at U.W.M. It is being offered this fall on Tuesday evenings. I also talked to Mike Wagner and he gave me the scoop on the class. Thanks for the help in obtaining the information. I will be registering for the course in the next couple of weeks. So you attended Marquette's MS Program. What is your opinion of it? I'd be interested to hear it. Bently Turner >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #52 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5852 08-03-88 23:35 (Read 102 times) from: MARK TELLIER (LEADER) to: BENTLY TURNER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5846 Bently, Re: MU's MS Program. My mom alway told me that if I had nothing good to say, then don't say anything at all. So about me MSEE degree . . . - mwt - >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #53 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5856 08-04-88 07:30 (Read 102 times) from: BENTLY TURNER to: MARK TELLIER (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5852 Yes, I guess your mother knows best >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5457 reply #54 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5462 06-24-88 23:25 (Read 104 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: ALL subject: WATCOM C 6.0 WOW! I recently got WATCOM C 6.0. While I did not find the degree of optization as powerful as the Computer Lang. and PCTJ articles say , I have und it producing tighter (smaller) code and faster code for many, but not all of the functions listed in the CL articles. However, I am using a plain vanilla 4.7 mhz 8088 IBM PC - no 80286 or co-processor. Interesting thing is that the Dhrystone test in TC and WatcomC optimizer are running at about the same speed and TC is smaller. WCEXP is not worth dealing with against TC1.5. The tests I have run all show consistently better performance (tight and speeed) than MS 4.0 and 5.0. And it costs much less (right now). Have any of you experimented with WatcomC 6.0 yet? If so, do you have any comments? Grant --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5466 06-25-88 21:18 (Read 100 times) from: BRUCE SHERMAN to: THOMAS ATKINSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: TP3.00 MEM AVAIL? Reply to #5459 Thanks very much for the lead on finding a free RAM program, with Turbopascal source. The file was downloaded, and modified, last night. It now does exactly what I needed. Thanks again! --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5468 06-25-88 22:30 (Read 102 times) from: GREGORY JONES to: ALL subject: MICROSOFT C 5.1 Can anyone tell me why the mouse driver (mouse.com version 6.13 dtd 3-7-88) does not remove itself from memory when I enter mouse off <CR>. My previous mouse driver did (rsion 6.11 dtd 2-1-88). --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5470 06-26-88 07:00 (Read 102 times) from: BRUCE SHERMAN to: ALL subject: DISABLE CNTRL+BRK? This might be a really simple question for you to answer . . . how can I disable control + c or control + break, from breaking out of a batch file? --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5472 06-26-88 11:20 (Read 101 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: ALL subject: MORE ON WATCOMC 6.0 Another interesting, if not disappointing, note on WatcomC 6.0 - optimizing compiler ... While the optimization is very good, and in all functions except vanilla i/o, code execution time is better than any of the others I have tested it with, the Optimization Compile / Link time is UNACCEPTABLY SLOW on a plain 8088 4.77 mhz pc. To wit: a Module with 370 lines with no special calls to other than stnd library functions required 25 minutes ++ to compile, optimize, and link. Fo me, this means it will require about 10 hrs on my 8088 pc/xt to compile, optimize, and link a large s/w system I am experimenting with. That does NOT go down well. I have yet to try it out on a 10 mhz 80286 system which I have available. It may be that the WatcomC Optimization system will only be useful and timely for major systems compilation, optimization, and link, etc.. on 80286/80386 pc's. Can we consider the old-line 8088 pc's dead territory for serious amatuer s/w development now? GE --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5473 06-26-88 13:58 (Read 101 times) from: JOHN GRANT to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: MORE ON WATCOMC 6.0 Reply to #5472 Yes. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5472 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5475 06-27-88 05:13 (Read 99 times) from: BRUCE SHERMAN to: ALL subject: PAINTING SCREENS I am writing a program for mass distribution. I want its opening screen to be a little "flashy," by using CGA as well as EGA graphics. What programss, which are ShareWare, and which can be learned quickly, are availableble to "paint" an opening screen for a Turbopascal 3.0 program? --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5689 07-17-88 10:20 (Read 93 times) from: LEE THOMPSON to: BRUCE SHERMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: PAINTING SCREENS Reply to #5475 Bruce, There are a couple of ways you can go about creating screens and screen displays in your Turbo Pascal programs. One drawing program you can use to draw up a screen is TheDraw. It's a shareware program in the Mahoney Collection. I've tried most of them out and find that this one is of the most use. The latest version comes with come pascal code that allows you to read the drawings you create into your program to be displayed when you need them. TheDraw is for ANSI graphic screens. Another way of going about creating screens is with the Turbo Boosters set of utilities. Boosters is a set of utilitties that let you write some reaally flashy programs. Instant screen writes, move around and display blocks of video memory, create screens on the heap memory for instant display without any snow on CGA monitors. Plus a whole lot more. I've upgraded to Turbo 4 and the Turbo 4 version of Boosters. If you are interested in Boosters for Turbo 3 let me know as I no longer need that version. I uploaded the 1988 and 1987 schedule for the Milwaukee Brewers Baseball team. All the screen displays were done with the screen creating program in Boosters and displayed with Booster utilitys. Download either one to get an idea of the kinds of things you can do. I can't remember the file names used but if you can't come up with them I will. -Lee >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5475 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5488 06-29-88 21:36 (Read 106 times) from: DEAN ROTH to: BENTLY TURNER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C LANGUAGE Reply to #5482 Bently, Another random thought: Why buy a compiler? Public access UNIX systems exist. Some charge a fee, some do not. I uploaded a list of some public access UNIX systems to the UNIX file section. With a terminal (or PC) and modem, one can have access to a C compiler and UNIX. Learning C on a system with memory management is better, in my humble opinion. A wild pointer may mysteriously crash a PC program, and the PC, but will probably generate a segmentation or bus error on a computer with memory management hardware, resulting in the program being aborted, but not a crashed system. I have an account on a public access UNIX system. You have not seen conferencing until you see USENET - the UNIX news/confernece network. There must be 500 or so conferences on EVERY topic, some even having to do with computers 8-) -Dean --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5491 06-30-88 08:15 (Read 104 times) from: GEORGE KOFMAN to: JOHN GRANT (Rcvd) subject: REAL DBMS Would the REAL DBMS please stand up! John, something I read in the MIS Week(?): Oracle and Wordtech systems to release a version of Wordtech's dBASE III+ compiler to include Oracle's SQL and Oracle's connectivity with remote databases. This will blow A/T dBASE IV out of the water before it is even released. Did you read/see anything regarding this new product? Is QS written by Wordtech systems? George. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5494 06-30-88 13:44 (Read 112 times) from: JOHN GRANT to: GEORGE KOFMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: REAL DBMS Reply to #5491 Yes, and Wordtech has been hinting around at this in its newsletters for some time now. No serious database developer I know is holding his breath for dBASE IV. The compiler market passed Ashton Tate by two years ago. What can they do short of breaking down and creating their own compiler to get back on top? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5491 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5496 06-30-88 23:15 (Read 109 times) from: DAVE KOCOL to: ALL subject: NEED ADVICE ON PASCAL cc: SYSOP cc: MARK TELLIER cc: JUDY GETTS Help, I'm fairly new at computing and could use some advice from someone who knows. I've recently completed a course in FORTRAN (a rather basic one) and have a pretty good understanding of it. I've heard great things about PASCAL and am interested in learning the language. I've got an opportunity to buy Borland Turbo Pascal, and a Tubro Pascal tutor for about $50.00 (Turbo is version 3.0). I have two questions: Will a FORTRAN background sufficiently prepare me to get into PASCAL, and, Is $50.00 a fair price for the above disks (with doc's), or if not what is the latest version, and what is it going for? Your time in mulling over my situation is greatly appreciated. Dave --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5497 07-01-88 00:33 (Read 108 times) from: GARY EIDE to: DAVE KOCOL (Rcvd) subject: R: NEED ADVICE ON PASCAL Reply to #5496 Dave, Turbo Pascal 3.0 is one step behind. The current version is 4.0. The 4.0 is a definite improvement over 3.0. The 4.0 version is running $65 to buy it from a mail order firm. In fact as I recollect I paid $60 for it locally thru Micro Magic here in Menomenee Falls. So if I were you I would get the 4.0. Gary >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5496 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5498 07-01-88 13:48 (Read 107 times) from: SYSOP to: DAVE KOCOL (Rcvd) subject: R: NEED ADVICE ON PASCAL Reply to #5496 I cannot advise you on the price or version question, although $50 sounds like a great price if it is a late version of Turbo Pascal. I can tell you that Fortran is an excellent stepping stone for working your way into Pascal. May people have used Turbo Pascal and its tutorial as their very first computing language. That means any prior experience is a plus. Personally, my first language was Ditran, a simply interpreted version of Fortran in 1973. Then the college class moved on to standard Fortran. I have found the Fortran experience to be an excellent basis for my use of other computer languages. Fortran has nice structures and syntax that are quite similar to the concepts you will find in other friendly languages like Pascal and Basic. I have never felt that my Fortran experience was a waste of time. bob >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5496 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5499 07-01-88 14:49 (Read 106 times) from: MARK TELLIER (LEADER) to: DAVE KOCOL (Rcvd) subject: R: NEED ADVICE ON PASCAL Reply to #5496 Dave I learned Basic and Fortran before I learned Pascal. I picked up Pascal from reading a book and having access to a compiler. In my opinion, Pascal is best described as an organized combination of Basic and Fortran. Version 3.0 of TP is and old version. If the $50.00 includes both the compiler and the tutor, that is a real good deal (if the 3.0 compiler is upgradable, i.e., its not the left over from some one else's upgrade). Otherwise, I think buying new is the best way to go. TP v4.0 is about $65.00 (maybe less) mail order. The tutor is about the same if my memory serves me right. You'll probably buy the latest TP if you get into it, and the total cost for the non-upgradable and the cost of a new TP v4.0 are about the same. It depends on what you think will result from your endeavor. - mwt - >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5496 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5500 07-01-88 15:25 (Read 113 times) from: JUDY GETTS to: DAVE KOCOL (Rcvd) subject: R: NEED ADVICE ON PASCAL Reply to #5496 Dave, Yeah, Fortran is certainly an adequate preparation for learning Pascal. In fact ... you might even want to skip Pascal and jump into C. You can get Borland C for not much more than the Pascal ($67). The current version of Turbo Pascal is 4.0. Whether or not 3.0 and the tutor are a good deal will depend on how good that Pascal tutor is. Probably not very good. (I personally never like software tutors.) My advice is skip the Pascal, get a copy of Borland C for $67. (By the way, version 4.0 of Turbo Pascal also sells for $67 from PC Connection.) Judy >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5496 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5501 07-01-88 16:15 (Read 106 times) from: JAMES SABATKE to: JUDY GETTS (Rcvd) subject: R: R: NEED ADVICE ON PAS Reply to #5500 cc: DAVE KOCOL Judy, I've not heard many folks that would recommend learning 'C' without a good foundation in a "HIGHLY STRUCTURED" language like Pascal. The discipline enforced in a STRONGLY TYPED language like Pascal is essential in mastering 'C'. First you learn the rules of structure and only then should you learn to break them. Jim >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5496 reply #5 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5504 07-01-88 20:10 (Read 104 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: JAMES SABATKE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: NEED ADVICE ON PAS Reply to #5501 cc: JUDY GETTS cc: DAVE KOCOL Jim, I agree wholeheatedly with your observation. Judy, you are possibly a genius for pgmg languages --- and you may be overestimating the novice's ability to get onto C ... fast. FOrtran is not a bad place to jump to PASCAL from. I jumped in from faded memories of Pascal's ancestor, ALGOL 61. It wasn't hard. While I view BASIC as an expletive which should have been deleted long ago, that, too, is not a bad place to jump to pascal from. Best place to jumpt to C from is from both pascal (or PL/I if you do heavy metal) and assemblers for at least 2 different machine architectures/ Without both, trying C as a start point will not be easy ,, ,and at least half the power will fly right by. I do agree with Judy --- TC is a good buy for the price! Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5496 reply #6 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5600 07-10-88 17:26 (Read 111 times) from: CURTIS ABRUE to: JUDY GETTS (Rcvd) subject: R: R: NEED ADVICE ON PAS Reply to #5500 cc: DAVE KOCOL If you don't mind my jumping in here, I tried the Turbo Tutor and it was really helpful. I'm just getting my feet wet and after months of not understanding TP, I finally had to admit that I was wasting my time without the Turbo Tutor. i just completed writing my first mini-program, 15K and it's only been 3 weeks since buying Tutor. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5496 reply #7 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5602 07-10-88 23:10 (Read 111 times) from: DAVE KOCOL to: CURTIS ABRUE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: NEED ADVICE ON PAS Reply to #5600 cc: JUDY GETTS Curtis, As things turned out, I took the plunge and got my Turbo Tutor, and the 3.0 version of Turbo Pascal. I have a friend who will lend me his version of 4.0 should I ask him to borrow it. It appears that 3.0 will keep me busy until I master it, so I feel that your advice (and my action) was good thinking, in my situation. Thanks for responding. If you write some modules that you wish to share, feel free, as I'll do the same. Dave >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5496 reply #8 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5507 07-02-88 07:38 (Read 101 times) from: BRUCE SHERMAN to: ALL subject: $$ FOR TP3.0 CODE CHANGE If you're interested in changing a TP 3.0 procedure, for displaying a menu, for a reasonable fee, then please let me know. The menu procedure currently is limited to displaying about 17 items. It should be modified to display up to 50 items in a single column. Because the monitor can only display 25 items at a time, the user of the menu should be able to press the PgUp key or the PgDn key to scroll through the various items. Then the user can select a menu item by pressing the Enter key or by pressing the key representing the first character of the menu item. Note that you would simply modify the existing code, to provide the additional function of scrolling through 50 menu items. If you're interested, leave me a message. Then we can discuss getting the source code for the menu module to you. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5508 07-02-88 08:57 (Read 101 times) from: DAVE CLAY to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: HOW MUCH STACK MARGIN Phil, Thanks for your knowledgeable and helpful answer on how much stack margin to allow. Whow! that is a lot more than I expected. You have saved me a lot of grief. BTW I hope you had a nice vacation. I see by the time stamp that you stayed up all night (till midnight) just to answer my question. Thanks again, Dave Clay --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5509 07-02-88 09:00 (Read 105 times) from: DAVE CLAY to: ALL subject: BIOS SCRATCH AREA cc: PHIL KATZ A little help or advice please. While looking at a copy-protected program, I found a very funny way for a program to detect that it is being traced. It makes successive reads of location 0000:046C which is in the bios scratch area. If too many steps take place between the successive reads of this magic location, bang, out you go. The question is: What is DOS / BIOS doing with that word? Thanks, Dave Clay --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5512 07-02-88 20:36 (Read 102 times) from: PAUL ZIMMERMAN to: DAVE CLAY (Rcvd) subject: R: BIOS SCRATCH AREA Reply to #5509 According to Peter Norton, this is the place where the BIOS keeps the time of day count.... So, in order to trace this program, I suggest you intercept the timer int (not sure if int 8 or int 1C does the BIOS timer update...) and slow it down.... maybe get a pop-up that can stop & start it at the various rates you would choose. A substantial programming task in itself... but if the program is an important enough job, it would be worth it... Paul >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5509 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5568 06-07-88 02:49 (Read 108 times) from: PHIL KATZ to: DAVE CLAY (Rcvd) subject: R: BIOS SCRATCH AREA Reply to #5509 Dave, 0:046C is the system timer double word. It gets incremented approximately every 55 milliseconds. What the program was doing was counting the time between two portions on code. If the code was being traced or single-stepped, more time would have elapsed than if the program were running normally. >Phil> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5509 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5510 07-02-88 17:36 (Read 106 times) from: TOM SWENSON to: ALL subject: C-COMPILERS RATHER THAN READING THROUGH ALL THE MESSAGES ABOUT C-COMPILERS AT LONG DISTANCE CHARGES, CAN I GET OPINIONS ABOUT WHAT WOULD BE THE BEST C- COMPILER FOR ME TO GET INTO. I DO A LOT OF CLIPPER WORK AND WOULD LIKE SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE PRETTY COMPATIBLE WITH IT. I'M LOOKING AT QUICKC AND TURBO C BECAUSE OF THEIR PRICES, BUT I'M NOT SURE. ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED. THANKS. === TOM SWENSON === --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5515 07-02-88 21:46 (Read 104 times) from: EDWARD MARCH to: TOM SWENSON (Rcvd) subject: R: C-COMPILERS Reply to #5510 Hi Tom, this is a hot subject and you will get a lot of opinions on it. I used microsoft C 4.0 at work, and I OWN Turbo-C 1.5 ($58 you cant loose) Every benchmarh I see in computer magazine ads shows product XYZ vs MSC and TC and some show TC over MCS and vice versa. One day I decide to run some old byte magazine benchmarks and see if there were right and I found TC was tigher code over MS... Phil Katz will argue with me saying MS has a better optimization, perhaps it does, Byte had a few articles about MS new quick C optinization techniques. They sound good on paper..... Turbo C has the user interface that every- one loves, far better than MS however there is NO DEBUGGER with TC. No code view type of thing... I think it comes down to if you are a true C hacker and spend time snipping off Nanseconds and a die hard speed freak and want language to language compatability for future use go with MS, if you want an easy to learn, super-friendly online help C manual (almost) go with TC. TC 1.5 has very good graphics support, there are a lot of PD window librarys available.... if you a gambler try MIX-c with a debugger for $49! c source is $10, TC lib source is $150 ! MS is about the same TC is very professional and not a toy, what else can I say ?? --ed >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5510 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5522 07-03-88 12:53 (Read 102 times) from: EDWARD MARCH to: TOM SWENSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C-COMPILERS Reply to #5518 First it depends on the machine speed. My 12mhz AT has a 11.7 norton rating and the link is fast a few seconds 4-5 for 3-4 modules. TC lik is faster than QC link - no doubt, unless the linker changed ! -- WHat EXACTLY is clipper ?? and what is NO-LINK ?? Happy 4th! -Ed >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5510 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5525 07-03-88 19:29 (Read 103 times) from: TOM FELLER to: TOM SWENSON (Rcvd) subject: R: C-COMPILERS Reply to #5510 I would recommend Turbo C because of various reasons. TC compiles into fast tight code very fast. If you want tight code from Microsoft you will need MSC 5.0 at a higher cost and slower compile and link. Anything you can do with a debugger you can do with printf statements. This may be slower but if you don't know the location of the bug going through a debugger can also be very slow. Can Clipper link with C modules? If so you may need MSC if the .OBJ modules are not compatible with TC. But you can always develop with TurboC and then convert to MSC before you link to clipper. This could be faster. Most stuff you do in TurboC can port over to MSC. Our company ported a 50000+ line program over to MSC because a clients .OBJ module for a interface to some hardware was not compatible with TC. Only one module was modified and that was due to the very poor way MSC handles conversion from huge to far pointers. In TC all that is needed is: char far *fp; char huge *hp; fp = (char far *)hp; In MSC you need a wierd conversion function. And I don't even know if you can go in the other direction in MSC. In TC its just another type cast. I don't see many people using huge pointers. So you MSC 5.0 advocates what do you say about that. Tom Feller >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5510 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5527 07-03-88 23:42 (Read 103 times) from: TOM SWENSON to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C-COMPILERS Reply to #5525 TOM, CLIPPER DOES LINK TO OTHER C FILES I BELIEVE. IT WAS WRITTEN IN MSC I I WAS TOLD ONCE ALSO. IT SOUNDS LIKE I'LL PROBABLY GO WITH TC AS YOU MENTIONED... A VERY FAST COMPILING AND LINKING TIME IS VALUABLE TO ME. THANKS FOR THE REPLY..... TOM >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5510 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5548 07-05-88 18:10 (Read 103 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C-COMPILERS Reply to #5525 Tom, just to correct 2 possible misconceptions .... 1. MSC obj code can link with TC (i've done it experimentally) , but one must be careful about library function iuncomppatilbilities 2. TC obj can be linked with MSC obj, but same caveat applies Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5510 reply #5 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5550 07-05-88 22:04 (Read 100 times) from: TOM FELLER to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C-COMPILERS Reply to #5548 I would not try that in the Large Memory Model with allocation. Our company had a .OBJ module that worked with MSC from a BIG computer company to run a Bar Code Scanner. In TURBO C the function worked fine until we allocated some memory, bang, it allocated it on top of the OBJ module code and as soon as we called the function again CRASH!.... In Microsoft it worked fine. This .OBJ module was written in assembly not in MSC so that may be the problem. Maybe a MSC module will link with TC but I think I tried that once and it crashed. Also in the Large memory model with allocation, that was. So try that. I will bet you any amount of money I can make a MSC module that will crash when linked and run with a Turbo C module! Of course I did not say each module was bug free, Ha Ha. Tom Feller >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5510 reply #6 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5560 07-06-88 16:24 (Read 104 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C-COMPILERS Reply to #5550 Tom, like I wrote ... beware of library function incompatibilities. Otherwise, it is posssible to link TC and MSC obj's together. The object forms are compatible. Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5510 reply #7 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5563 06-06-88 22:23 (Read 105 times) from: TOM FELLER to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C-COMPILERS Reply to #5560 BS, the obj module was written in Assembly, it does not call any library functions, it was the only non-TurboC module. The TurboC malloc blasted it out of RAM like it did not exist. You have to do some special things to make a .OBJ assembly module that works with TurboC. I have proof from me and another programmer in house and one at the company that wrote the .OBJ module. DEBUG proved the address had the code and the malloc said, OK use it. MSC may work with TC but not all modules that work with MSC will work with TC!!! No Way Buddy!! You want a copy of the module? I can link it into a Turbo program and it will CRASH! If you read the TurboC manual you can see what I mean. A in house programmer had to make some minor mods to make a ASM program work with TC. It must me modified to work with TC!!! Tom Feller >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5510 reply #8 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5588 07-08-88 21:05 (Read 116 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C-COMPILERS Reply to #5563 OK. I believe you. Based on admittedly very limited experience where I had NO problems hooking up the products of MSC (4.0) , MASM(4.0), and TC 1.5 - linked via TLINK and LINK 3.05 (MS), I reached a more general conclusion than I should have. Also, there was NO documentation from Borland indicating that its obj modules were not MS Linker compatible. There was some indication that they were compatible - with caveats. Also, I would be very surprised if all (or even most) TC objs. asm obs, etc.. would always work when hooked together. My original point was that the .obj formats were not inherently incompatible - and on that point your unfortunate boom does not contradict. GE >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5510 reply #9 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5513 07-02-88 21:30 (Read 97 times) from: BRUCE SHERMAN to: ALL subject: TP3.0 MMRY OVRFLW #98 When compiling a Turbopascal 3.0 program, compiler error message #98 occurs. This means: "Memory overflow -- You are trying to allocate more storage for variables than is available." How can I get around this problem? --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5514 07-02-88 21:41 (Read 93 times) from: THOMAS ATKINSON to: BRUCE SHERMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: TP3.0 MMRY OVRFLW #98 Reply to #5513 Add more memory... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5513 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5519 07-03-88 05:03 (Read 96 times) from: CHARLES PERRIN to: THOMAS ATKINSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: TP3.0 MMRY OVRFLW Reply to #5514 cc: BRUCE SHERMAN Thomas and Bruce Sherman: Remember, Turbo Pascal 3.0 is a "medium model" structure, so no more than 64K can be uninitialized data, 64K stack data, and 64K code. However, the rest of the machine can be filled with dynamically allocated areas... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5513 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5520 07-03-88 07:48 (Read 97 times) from: BRUCE SHERMAN to: THOMAS ATKINSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: TP3.0 MMRY OVRFLW Reply to #5514 My system already has 640K memory, so that doesn't seem to be the problem. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5513 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5521 07-03-88 07:50 (Read 97 times) from: BRUCE SHERMAN to: CHARLES PERRIN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: TP3.0 MMRY OVRFLW Reply to #5519 How can I determine the amount of memory, broken down by 'uninitialized data,' '64K stack data,' and '64K code,' being used by a particular Turbopascal 3.0 program? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5513 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5523 07-03-88 17:42 (Read 95 times) from: CHARLES PERRIN to: BRUCE SHERMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: TP3.0 MMRY OVRFLW Reply to #5521 It outputs "size of data segment" and "size of code segment" info as it's compiling. Look at the statement on which it gagged. If it's a global declaration, your data segment is too large. If it gagged on a procedure, you've got too much being pushed on the stack. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5513 reply #5 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5524 07-03-88 19:11 (Read 96 times) from: TOM FELLER to: BRUCE SHERMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: TP3.0 MMRY OVRFLW #98 Reply to #5513 This is most likely too much global data. Local data would generate a stack overflow at run time, but the compiler may check that too. Allocate the big data you are using. You may wish to convert to "C" for better allocation control. Tom Feller >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5513 reply #6 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5528 07-04-88 03:32 (Read 96 times) from: THOMAS ATKINSON to: BRUCE SHERMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: TP3.0 MMRY OVRFLW #98 Reply to #5513 I am not a Pascal pro but it seems if you can move some of the variables you are using to being declared in the procedures you call you may free up some memory. Having them in a global include file that you load makes them static do they not ? , having them disposed after a procedure call seems to be a first step. If you are using some gigantic array, maybe you could/will have to make it a disk file ? I just purchased a product titled Turbo Professional for TP4, you may still be able to get one (if it was made for TP3) that allows arrays to be stored in extended/expanded or as a disk array. I am not into linked lists and such, but you may be leaving some storage allocated and not disposed after use >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5513 reply #7 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5529 07-04-88 03:35 (Read 97 times) from: THOMAS ATKINSON to: BRUCE SHERMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: TP3.0 MMRY OVRFLW Reply to #5521 As the Exec does not have a Pascal conference it may pay to find a NETMAIL board that carries the national PASCAL conference. That area will supply an answer for all your needs on the subject. I believe Borland itself has a node for the conference... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5513 reply #8 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5540 07-05-88 05:25 (Read 100 times) from: BRUCE SHERMAN to: CHARLES PERRIN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: TP3.0 MMRY OVRFLW Reply to #5523 Is is possible to reduce the likelihood of memory overflow by changing, wherever possible, global variable declarations to LOCAL (i.e. within a procedure or function) variable declarations? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5513 reply #9 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5542 07-05-88 14:40 (Read 96 times) from: THOMAS ATKINSON to: BRUCE SHERMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: TP3.0 MMRY OVRFLW Reply to #5541 Here is a number from my nodes list for your area. 1-313-553-9274, if that is not in service, here are a couple of more from the 313 code, 882-7104,946-4821. I am not sure if any of these carry the Pascal conference, but they might lead you to a board in the area that does. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5513 reply #10 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5557 07-06-88 05:39 (Read 104 times) from: CHARLES PERRIN to: BRUCE SHERMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: TP3.0 MMRY OVRFLW Reply to #5540 That will help although variables allocated with "new" (pointed to) will help break the 64K barrier. (It will also slow down execution.) Although locals are accessed with stack offsets, I doubt it would be much worse than locals are. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5513 reply #11 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5551 07-05-88 22:32 (Read 95 times) from: TOM SWENSON to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C-COMPILERS Reply to #5538 glen... sorry about the caps, i guess my caps lock key must be broken, do you spose? do you know how compatible turbo-c is with clipper? thanks for for your help and suggestions. I hope I don't offend anybody by the caps!!! tom --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5580 07-07-88 02:09 (Read 110 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: TOM SWENSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C-COMPILERS Reply to #5551 Tom, Since I don't use either Turbo-C or Clipper, I'm not sure how compatible they are. I've had Microsoft C from vers 3 so I've gone the upgrade route as opposed to looking at new compilers. Since I don't write any complex systems in C, I haven't run into any problems with it. I tried Quick C since it came with the ver 5 upgrade but dumped it and now use Qedit, batch compiles, and Codeview. Codeview makes the Quick C debugger look sick. Some people buy Quick C and Masm so they can get Codeview. If I were buying a C compiler from scratch I would have to seriously consider Turbo-C. I've been very happy with Borland's other products. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5551 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5583 07-07-88 07:53 (Read 110 times) from: CHARLES PERRIN to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C-COMPILERS Reply to #5580 Or QuickBasic and MASM (although I got MASM originally for a Christmas present in 1986....). >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5551 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5585 07-08-88 12:10 (Read 111 times) from: TOM SWENSON to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C-COMPILERS Reply to #5580 THANKS FOR THE REPLY, GLEN. SO FAR TC LOOKS LIKE THE WAY TO GO... ISN'T THERE ANY CLIPPER PROGRAMMERS OUT THERE WHO MESS WITH 'C'. LINKING TO CLIPPER IS MY FINAL CONSIDERATION IN COMPILERS. I HAVE SEEN CODEVIEW BEFORE AND WAS VERY IMPRESSED, ALTHOUGH I DID NOT SEE IT DEBUGGING A C PROGRAM, JUST ASSEMBLY. SOUNDS LIKE TURBO-C THOUGH. THANKS TOM >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5551 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5598 07-10-88 16:24 (Read 108 times) from: DAVID NYE to: CHARLES PERRIN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C-COMPILERS Reply to #5583 I bought MASM a couple of years ago but recently junked it in favor of Eric Isaacson's A86. The companion debugger D86 is as good as Codeview, in my opinion. Both A86 and D86 are shareware. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5551 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5605 07-11-88 05:54 (Read 109 times) from: CHARLES PERRIN to: DAVID NYE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C-COMPILERS Reply to #5598 I'd define it as "harassmentware", I got the basic impression that you could hardly look at it without paying.... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5551 reply #5 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5734 07-19-88 23:49 (Read 95 times) from: DAVID NYE to: CHARLES PERRIN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C-COMPILERS Reply to #5605 Re: A86/D86 as "harassmentware": I agree his "pay up or I'll get you" message is a little heavy-handed. I briefly looked at A86 about two years ago and was put off by that message sufficiently that I didn't look into the package further until just recently. He claims to be able to tell if you used his assembler by a unique "footprint" in the code it generates. I don't have to worry, anyway. I sent him the money. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5551 reply #6 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5737 07-20-88 07:50 (Read 100 times) from: STEVEN KEY to: DAVID NYE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C-COMPILERS Reply to #5734 David, Nobody who has read Eric's manuals could accuse him of being bashful. The "threat" didn't bother me - I think it was aimed at commercial users, but I wouldn't call it harassment anyway. The newer versions of A86 and D86 are much improved over older ones - especially the debugger. I'd never go back to MASM. When used with a small, fast editor like QEDIT, they make a super quick development environment. Steve >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5551 reply #7 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5559 07-06-88 13:05 (Read 100 times) from: JEFFREY BROWN to: ALL subject: TP 3.0 PATCH Can anyone tell me how to patch a Turbo Pascal 3.0 (or possibly earlier) program, to which I do not have the source code, to enable Ctrl-Break checking? The damn thing seems to have no way of exiting the program gracefully. Thanks Jeff --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5576 06-07-88 19:46 (Read 101 times) from: RALPH KREIPLE to: JEFFREY BROWN (Rcvd) subject: R: TP 3.0 PATCH Reply to #5559 I donot have my TP 3.0 manual here right now and haven't used it for a while, but near the back of it is a chapter or a section of a chapter that has all the switch information you will need to enable CTRL-C checking. I found this a while back when I created an endless loop, was unable to break the program, and I had to reboot-loosing about 2 hours of editing which I haden't saved. Look in the index under directives. Ralph PS I now save more frequently, isn't it amazing how fast a bad habit can be broken. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5559 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5608 07-11-88 08:54 (Read 104 times) from: JEFFREY BROWN to: RALPH KREIPLE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: TP 3.0 PATCH Reply to #5576 Thanks, Ralph. I'll check in the manual. Jeff >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5559 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5564 06-06-88 23:09 (Read 107 times) from: CHRIS KLANN to: ALL subject: C HELP cc: PHIL KATZ Can someone help me on this one? I'm looking for 3 letters that are placed in memory from a particular program. The documentation for the program gives some .ASM code showing how this can be done, but I'd like to do it in C (MSC 5.1). The doc's specify that you can determine if a program is in memory by checking offset 103h for each interrupt from 60h to 7Fh. Here's a hunk of the .ASM example: . MOV AH,35h ;DOS function call ID - get interrupt MOV AL,INTVAL ;Initialize first valid interrupt to check NEXTINT: INT 21h ;Get the interrupt vector from DOS LEA SI,STFID ;Offset (CS) of search string MOV DI,0103h ;Offset (ES) to be compared MOV CX,STFLEN ;Length of string ;Is this the STF interrupt? REPNE CMPS CS:STFID[SI],ES:[DI] JE FOUND ;Yes - jump to FOUND INC INTVAL ;No - look at the next valid interrupt MOV AL,INTVAL ;Set AL to the next interrupt to check CMP AL,080h ;Was the last valid interrupt checked JB NEXTINT ;No- Check the interrupt vector MOV AL,0 ;Yes - return FALSE to the caller JMP FEXIT ;Exit FOUND: MOV INTVAL,AL ;Set interrupt value to STF interrupt MOV AL,1 ;Return TRUE to the calling program . I figured I could use the MSC library function _dos_getvect() to execute the DOS 35h function call of 21h interrupt, but how do I use the seg:offset that's returned along with the 103h offset to see if that memory location has the three letters ('STF')? Any help would be appreciated! ...Chris..... --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5569 06-07-88 03:02 (Read 113 times) from: PHIL KATZ to: CHRIS KLANN (Rcvd) subject: R: C HELP Reply to #5564 Chris, Well, this isn't very portable, BUT: 1) cast the return result from _dos_getvect() to a 'long' or 'unsigned long' value and assign it to such a variable. 2) Assuming that the long above was named 'xyzzy', do this: char far *ptr; long xyzzy; xyzzy=(long)_dos_getvect(whatever); ptr=(char far *)((xyzzy & 0xffff0000) | 0x103); 3) Now, if you are using the large model, you can use memcmp() to cmp what's at *ptr to "STF". However, if you are using a small data model, than it's probably easiest just to test if ptr[0]=='S', ptr[1]=='T' and so on. >Phil> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5564 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5572 06-07-88 08:09 (Read 108 times) from: CHRIS KLANN to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C HELP Reply to #5569 Phil: Once again, thanks for your reply. I'll mull it over & see if I can get your idea to work. Thanks...Chris..... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5564 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5586 07-07-88 13:51 (Read 119 times) from: CHRIS KLANN to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C HELP Reply to #5569 Phil: Sure enuf, the sucker worked! Here's the sample code for your total edification . #include<dos.h> . int stffound(); . main() { if(stffound()) printf("Yeaaa! I found STF loaded\n"); else printf("STF is not loaded\n"); } . int stffound() { unsigned i; char far *ptr; long xyzzy; for(i=96; i<=127; i++) { xyzzy=(long)_dos_getvect(i); ptr=(char far *)((xyzzy & 0xffff0000) | 0x103); if(ptr[0]=='S' && ptr[1]=='T' && ptr[2]=='F') return(1); } return(0); } . I guess I'm sorta fuzzy on the details of what you're doing here - let me see if I can walk through it... =>xyzzy=(long)_dos_getvect(i); -casting the retrun value of _dos_getvect() to a long & assigning it to the (long) variable xyzzy. =>ptr=(char far *)((xyzzy & 0xffff0000) | 0x103); -ummmm, taking the variable *xyzzy*, anding it with 0xffff0000 to get just the segment portion of the address, and then or'ing that result with 0x0103 to get the proper seg:offset (which was specified to be 0x0103) and casting that as a far pointer & assigning that value to far pointer *ptr*. ...well, I'm not sure if I said that all correctly, but it sorta seems to make sense (as long as I say it slowly)! Thanks again...Chris..... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5564 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5587 07-08-88 17:30 (Read 117 times) from: PHIL KATZ to: CHRIS KLANN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C HELP Reply to #5586 Chris, Your description of how that code works is 100% correct. By placing the vector returned by _dos_getvect() into a 'long' variable, you can do math on it without the compiler getting too upset. Then you can cast the value back to a pointer and use the pointer. However, this is generally a very poor programming practice, and is completely non-portable. The code I gave you not only assumes what the size of long's are, but 'far' pointers as well. It also assumes the pointers are in Intel segment:offset form. On the other hand, it works just fine on any 80x8x family CPU, and is as portable as the equivalent portion of assembly code that you listed. >Phil> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5564 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5593 07-08-88 23:15 (Read 117 times) from: CHRIS KLANN to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C HELP Reply to #5587 Phil: I don't think I'll be trying to port that to a Mac or VAX or any other type of machine in the distant future - it's dealing with a PC passing info to & from a S/36... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5564 reply #5 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5570 06-07-88 03:09 (Read 103 times) from: LARRY EDWARDS to: ALL subject: FASTER COMPILE ? I have been wondering if installing an 8087 coprocessor might speed up compiles and links under Turbo-C. I know it is basically for floating point math, but wonder if compilers are able to use it to advantage. Any idea if an 8087 will help, and if it will, how much? Thanks! --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5571 06-07-88 03:52 (Read 102 times) from: CHARLES PERRIN to: LARRY EDWARDS subject: R: FASTER COMPILE ? Reply to #5570 If you're doing a lot of floating point, an 8087 is definitely worth the money spent on it. (Us floating freaks find it to be useful drawing our cardioids....) >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5570 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5574 07-07-88 13:45 (Read 101 times) from: TOM PETERS to: ALL subject: FIND_NEXT cc: PHIL KATZ I wrote a program in MASM5.0 that accepts a filename and type on the command line. It writes a temporary file whose name is the same as the input filename, and whose type is .BT7. The program performs a rename to the original name, first deleting the original file. My problem is that I recently rewrote it using DOS FIND_FIRST and FIND_NEXT functions, so you can now use wildcarded filenames. You can tell it to process *.DOC or XYZZY.* or any such thing. Trouble is, it processes some files twice. If you specify *.doc, it's likely to process 3 of 7 files two times. Sometimes, especillay with BIG files, specifying a name with no wildcards (like XYZZY.DOC) will cause that file to be processed twice. I guess it's not too hard to guess why; DOS must keep track of something more than just the file's name in order to keep track of itself for the next call to FIND_NEXT, and by copying, deleting, and renaming, I'm tricking DOS into thinking that the new copy of the old file is in fact another file to be mung'ed. Is there any easy way out of this? Adding the calls to FIND_FIRST and FIND_NEXT was relatively easy; if I have to do repeated calls to FIND_NEXT and buffer up all of the filenames before I process any files, it's going to get ugly. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5577 07-07-88 20:16 (Read 98 times) from: PHIL KATZ to: TOM PETERS (Rcvd) subject: R: FIND_NEXT Reply to #5574 Tom, Well, you've pretty much figured it out. What the DOS find_next function does is keep track of the *directory* position that it last searched. If you create a new file later in the directory with a matching filename, then that filename will be returned by the find_next function. What I would suggest doing is in your init code, read and save the current date & time. Then, when find_next returns a filename, part of the info it returns in the DTA is the file's date & time. If this date & time are LATER than when your program started running, then you know that you have already processed this file and don't need to process it again. If it's dated earlier, than the program hasn't seen this file yet. Comparing the times would be much easier than storing all the filenames before processing any. >Phil> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5574 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5611 07-11-88 13:09 (Read 102 times) from: TOM PETERS to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: R: R: FIND_NEXT Reply to #5577 Ah, cleverness itself. I can perhaps just pretend the time & date values are just words and compare them, depending on the bit positions. I will try this. THX. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5574 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5575 07-07-88 17:58 (Read 105 times) from: JOHN KASTER to: ALL subject: LINKED LISTS IN C Ok. I've taken the big step. I'm converting (sort of) a HUGE amount of my TPascal source code to Turbo C. One of the things I Absolutely need is a routine to read in a file and assign each part of the line to a linked list item record. Anybody have any suggestions for books to get or source code to look at? I have tried a PD tutorial package, and can't get their sample source code to work. I'm using The C Programmer's handbook by Thom Hogan ( the guy can't even spell his name right!), K&R's C Bible, and The C Primer by two other guys at AT&T. Thanks for your attention. John Kaster --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5589 07-08-88 21:21 (Read 115 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: JOHN KASTER (Rcvd) subject: R: LINKED LISTS IN C Reply to #5575 John, The C Toolbox, by William James Hunt, had some examples of liked list manipulation in it (if I remember rightly) in its sxection on BTREE manipulation (as an example of linked list manipulation). Book published by Addison-Wesley (c. 1986). Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5575 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5612 07-11-88 14:51 (Read 108 times) from: JOHN KASTER to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: LINKED LISTS IN C Reply to #5589 Grant, thanks. I'll look for it. In the meantime, I found Borland-Osborne McGraw-Hill (how's that for contraction?)'s book The Complete Turbo C Reference to be helpful. I successfully got Herbert Schildt's mailing list example program to work. Now all I have to do is figure out why his code worked and mine didn't. John >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5575 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5626 07-12-88 22:42 (Read 107 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: JOHN KASTER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: LINKED LISTS IN C Reply to #5612 John, I've helped some folks debug linked list proceedures in C, Pascal, and mainframe ALC ... common error all made was to fail to set 1st node null at initialization, or reset null for a re-cycle. Other error was failure to initialize children nodes *next to null when creating linked list entry ... results have been everything from garbage results to stack-clobber and a well-hung machine. Grant If you want to ship me source for exam and diag, let me know... we'll figure out a way to do it. Include symptoms for expediting diags. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5575 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5628 07-13-88 11:29 (Read 105 times) from: JOHN KASTER to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: LINKED LISTS IN C Reply to #5626 Grant, thanks for the offer. I might take you up on it. Your name sounds familiar - do you use Clipper by any chance? I don't know if you noticed, but I'm in VA. I think we have talked on boards around here. Anyway, my current assignment (for myself) is to implement functions for TP's POS and COPY string routines in "C". I haven't found anything quite like them, but I've got oodles of whether or not a single character occurs in the text or a string is contained in the text. Not one that I can easily convert to indicate WHERE this string occurs (at least not with my EXTREMELY limited knowledge of C). Any further suggestions on that would be appreciated. The Turbo C book I mentioned above seems to be helping me quite a bit, and I've been able to use his doubly-linked lists routines. I would appreciate your leaving a message (privately) with a voice # I can reach you at - there's some other things I would like to ask you about that are too complicated to get into here. Thanks again. John >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5575 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5636 07-13-88 21:27 (Read 102 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: JOHN KASTER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: LINKED LISTS IN C Reply to #5628 John, It's quite possible that our paths have crossed on some DC area bbs. (Kwibble, Techmail, Norske?). On your C/TPas equivalencies: seems to me that there are some C library routines wich either do same thing as those TP functions, or, in some combination, they can be used to imitate the TP routines. Check out the str...() functions and the mem...() functions. E.g. strchr(), gives location of char in a string, strcmp() compares partial strings... etc. Something that may help you is to re-write the desired function in TPas using lower level primatives ... and then converting the lower level to C. I'll leave voice/contact numbers in the pvt msg area. Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5575 reply #5 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5661 07-15-88 10:59 (Read 104 times) from: JOHN KASTER to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: LINKED LISTS IN C Reply to #5636 I seem to have found a solution with the strstr() function and some lucky (extremely lucky) discoveries about "C" when I was experimenting. Got the doubly linked list working, along with a replicate function similar to dbase's, and some other handy ones. Thanks again for your help. I'll probably upload a file of the "C" routines when I'm done. Not that they're any good, but some other poor TP programmer might be struggling along with "C" and desperately need these routines also. Thanks again. John >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5575 reply #6 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5668 07-15-88 21:05 (Read 105 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: JOHN KASTER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: LINKED LISTS IN C Reply to #5661 John, yep. Any sample guideline routines for TP pgmrs moving to Cwould be real useful examples. Especially linked lists processing. Also, of obscure but significant note for your other problem (scan code detection, etc..), BEWARE of TC's kbhit() function. It uses dos function 0x0B ... not the bios int 0x16 function ... dos function traps ^C , ^S, and ctrl-brk, which may interfere with your keyboard-reading routine. You can use the INT 0x16 / ah=1, or the TC bioskey(1) for the kbhit() function, and bioskey(0) to get the character(s). ... and there are other obscurities which would be of interest to TP pgmrs trying to move constructs to C. So, the more examples, the better. Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5575 reply #7 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5704 07-18-88 11:18 (Read 102 times) from: JOHN KASTER to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: LINKED LISTS IN C Reply to #5668 I'm trying to use bioskey(), and I can successfully retrieve the value for a normal keystroke, but I'm having problems masking out the hi (or is it lo) order bit for the extended keys. I don't want to have to convert the string using base 16 from the bioskey() return, but I might end up doing that since my masking (I'm using & 65280) of the bioskey() return doesn't seem to be working. Anyway, thanks for the suggestions. John >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5575 reply #8 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5711 07-19-88 00:25 (Read 94 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: JOHN KASTER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: LINKED LISTS IN C Reply to #5704 John, see my big "tome" to Dale Ulmer on the ctrl-brk handler. briefly, you should receive return from bioskey(0) in an unsigned integer and get real chacter from lo-byte if low-byte is non-zero .... e.g. ... unsigned int mychar; unsigned char usechar; .... mychar = bioskey(0); /* get 2-byte kbd code */ usechar = (unsigned char) mychar; /*get low order byte */ /* easier than trying to AND off unwanted bits */ if (usechar == 0x00) usechar = (mychar >> 8) + 256; /* which is one way to establish unique scan char values, if needed */ Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5575 reply #9 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5741 07-20-88 11:34 (Read 106 times) from: JOHN KASTER to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: LINKED LISTS IN C Reply to #5711 I did something almost Identical to that - and it works completely. I'll upload it after I have all the extended keys defined so nobody else has to do that piddly work. I have another question that I'll leave a message about later (Bob is going to reset the board right now). John >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5575 reply #10 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5578 07-07-88 20:39 (Read 100 times) from: PHIL KATZ to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: EXPRESS C? Grant, According to the Watcom C ads, they bundle in "Express C" with Watcom C 6.0. Express C is also available seperately for about $70. From what I can tell, Express C is Watcom's version of Turbo C or Quick C, with integrated editor & debugger. They claim that Express C's compile times are faster than Turbo C or Quick C (it's an ad after all). Have you had the chance to try Express C? If it is any decent than the slow compile times of Watcom's command line C might not be so bad, if like Quick C, Express C can be used for development, and then the command line compiler used for production code. >Phil> --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5590 07-08-88 21:38 (Read 111 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: R: EXPRESS C? Reply to #5578 Phil, Watcom Express C had a very short life on my system. Yep,, it is fast - about as fast as TC (maybe a little faster). Debugger is ok. Express C supports only the Medium model - integrated environment or not. Most of my C code uses the compact model. The watcom c integrated environ- ment is not good (only the built-in debugger gives it any saving grace). In all, I found Express C more trouble than it was worth. If an aspiring c-programmer/hobbyist wants to limit expenses to less than $100 , s/he would be better off spending the $ on QC, TC, or the Mix C system. What I have found "acceptable" is to build the code and shake it out in TC, then, with discrete use of preprocessor directives, compile for super-duper opt- imization with Watcom C 6.0 optimizer. This, of course, requires an all-night seance with the pc. I'm going to be trying my code sample on MSC 5.0 and may be able to give you some real-world compile/execute time comparisons in a few days. Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5578 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5584 07-08-88 10:45 (Read 110 times) from: KAREN LITTLE to: ALL subject: CLARION It was suggested that I ask this question here, so here goes ... I just got a tutorial from Clarion and it seems really neat. Has anyone ever used it? And how does it compare to Rbase for DOS? Is it a similar kind of product because it is "code self-generating?" Karen --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5609 07-11-88 09:14 (Read 106 times) from: NED REITER to: KAREN LITTLE (Rcvd) subject: R: CLARION Reply to #5584 Karen, I have been using Clarion Professional Developer version 2.0 for about month now and I am very impressed. The Designer allows you to develop a complete application, from file design through screen and report definition to running program (can be an .EXE file using the Translator) without writing any code. It supports the use of table screens for file lookup and form screens for file maintenance. If you need to do something that the Designer won't, you can write your own module in Clarion using the Editor and have it included in the final program. Although Clarion is not inexpensive, it is quite powerful. The cost is comparable to a good DBMS plus programming language, and the Designer is a bonus. . I can't make a comparison to R-Base, since I haven't used it, but it seems to serve a similar function. However, the Clarion language was designed to be a logical method of programming. The rationale for the language is very interesting. If you didn get the demo direct from Clarion, call them and ask for the inof package. . If you would like to see Clarion in action, please feel free to call me at 414-744-4546. . Ned >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5584 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5610 07-11-88 12:44 (Read 112 times) from: KAREN LITTLE to: NED REITER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: CLARION Reply to #5609 cc: TOM DUNLAVEY cc: MIKE WESOLOWSKI Net, I'll call you later this week about seeing Clarion in action. If you don't mind, perhaps I could include a friend who knows RBase. I know you CAN'T create a stand alone program inRBase without a $1,000 new "program translator". I read today about Lotus' new information management system ... I am forever dreaming these things up and then using FileExpress. One that I am working on lately is doing crossreferences on a correspondence system and that could be crossreferenced to meetings and other contacts. You see, when you run an organization based on "networking" through meetings, etc., each person is a gold mine of information. If one person quits, a GREAT deal of information is lost and may never be made up. Anyway, I have this module and that module. I'd like to be able to program on the fly without getting caught up in learning the language ... and don't know if I am nieve (however that word is spelled) in my goal. ... The friend I'd like to come along (who doesn't know it yet) is Tom Dunlavey. Thanks, Karen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5584 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5619 07-12-88 08:34 (Read 103 times) from: NED REITER to: KAREN LITTLE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: CLARION Reply to #5610 Fine, just give me a call. Tom is welcome, too. I will be at clients all day Thursday, however, so Wednesday or Friday would be best. Rbase wants $1000 for the translator? Clarion Professional Developer cost less than that including the translator. I think it may be just what you are looking for. Ned >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5584 reply #3 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5594 07-09-88 04:13 (Read 111 times) from: BRUCE SHERMAN to: KAREN LITTLE (Rcvd) subject: PROGRAM GENERATORS Like you, I have the Clarion demo. But, I have been so busy that I haven't tried it yet. If you're interested in generating applications, including creating .EXE files, then you might want to wait a little bit longer for dBase IV. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5599 07-10-88 16:24 (Read 107 times) from: KAREN LITTLE to: BRUCE SHERMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: PROGRAM GENERATORS Reply to #5594 I played with Clarion on Friday evening ... it sure seemed a lot like R base for DOS (which I have, but have not learned yet). I am into EASY ... I do too much to have to play with programming, and so I have deferred to File Express for a lot of things. A friend is helping me by writing out an extensive application in ... he hasn't chosen it yet, but I think it will end up in dBase as FoxBase didn't do it for him. I like the idea of generating .exe files rather than booting up a program, then going into a file, etc. RBase took up !@#$!@ much memory ... while my friends learned how to use it with ease, and while I UNDERSTOOD some of the concepts, there was an irritation factor there which prompted me to avoid the program. I absolutely hated dBase III. RBase isn't a good program for a 20 mg hard drive ... now I have 40 mgs maybe I will see things differently. Let me know what you think of the Clarion demo. Karen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5594 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5675 07-16-88 07:02 (Read 104 times) from: LOWELL DENNING to: KAREN LITTLE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAM GENERATORS Reply to #5599 Karen, Infoworld reviewed a number of relational database program environment s about a week ago. They picked Clarion as the best total package on the market for developing applications! Lowell >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5594 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5677 07-16-88 10:56 (Read 106 times) from: KAREN LITTLE to: LOWELL DENNING (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAM GENERATORS Reply to #5675 cc: NED REITER cc: STEPHEN ROSS Lowell, I met with Ned Reiter (I hope that's how his last name is spelled...I'm not by his card at the moment). He has 22 years plus experience as a programmer and he talks really strongly for Clarion. I AM impressed. The $700 it would take to get into it ... especially seeing as I own Rbase for DOS ... I am hesitating. I have a friend who is doing Paradox and really got sucked into the "fun and excitement" of programming when actually his talents lie in another place. I REALLY need to develop special "on the fly FAST." So my worry is that if I get into EASY Clarion I will be spending 48 hours on developing something and thereby neglecting my other work. I need a sense of fastness with the program ... I wish Clarion would put it on trial for a month. I am going to upload CLARION.ARC demo today for anyone who'd wish to use it. Karen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5594 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5678 07-16-88 11:19 (Read 104 times) from: STEPHEN ROSS to: KAREN LITTLE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAM GENERATORS Reply to #5677 Thanks, buddy, dear friend of mine ... after telling me to quit programming and get to what I'm good at, now you entice me with a new "better" way to do what Ishouldn't be doing. I'll download Clarion.Arc next log on. With friends like you ... Hugs, anyway, Steve >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5594 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5708 07-18-88 19:19 (Read 96 times) from: KAREN LITTLE to: STEPHEN ROSS (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAM GENERATORS Reply to #5678 Stop the current CLARION.ARC is the OLD version I have asked Mahoney to remove it so I can put up the new version. I will wait another day, check it, and hopefully by Wednesday the NEW clarion.arc will appear. hugs, eh? I should have come on this conference long ago, Karen { z >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5594 reply #5 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5595 07-09-88 08:40 (Read 107 times) from: DAVE CLAY to: PAUL ZIMMERMAN (Rcvd) subject: BIOS SCRATCH AREA cc: PHIL KATZ Paul and Plil, Thanks for your explanation of the time of day being stored in 0000:046C That helps a lot. Your wise council is always appreciated. Thanks again, Dave Clay --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5596 07-09-88 18:07 (Read 102 times) from: JACK KETTER to: ALL subject: BASICA GRAPHICS Does anyone know of a basica routine to rotate a square on the screen with the axis being in the center of the square? Thanks --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5597 07-09-88 20:42 (Read 102 times) from: JAMES SABATKE to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: SEAVPKW.ARC Phil, After reading the file vercomp.fin I wonder if the inventor of a "better mouse-trap" would find a world of lawyers beating a path to his door. Jim --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5601 07-10-88 17:45 (Read 105 times) from: CURTIS ABRUE to: DAVE KOCOL (Rcvd) subject: T-PASCAL Dave: Just out of curiosity...what type of a program did you want to write that motivates you to learn a language...? The reason I'm asking is because I picked out Pascal after I heard it was originally designed by a mathematician, and the app I wanted to write was a math application. I am also studying Turbo Prolog for an expert application i have in mind. My point is, it depends on what you want to do with it. Any language is fine, even BASIC, depending on what you want to do with it. Good luck whatever you choose! Curt --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5603 07-10-88 23:20 (Read 106 times) from: DAVE KOCOL to: CURTIS ABRUE (Rcvd) subject: R: T-PASCAL Reply to #5601 Curtis, I want to write a multifunction bulletin board type program, which would include the following: 1. A data input section, for uploading data from a specific form (field service report). 2. A message base (E-Mail type setup). 3. A hard copy message center (upload message directly to printer). 4. Small database, about 6 fields. I work as a field service engineer for a large company. We use laptops daily as part of our jobs. Unfortunatly, the way data is retrieved from the field (us F.E.'s calling in), is on an old CP/M machine. I'm on a crusade to upgrade this old dinosaur to an AT or 386, and put a 140Meg HD to store the data. Although the program itself seems quite ambitious, breaking it down into small conquerable parts shouldn't be too bad. Hope to run it by October. Drop me a line every once in a while to see how I'm doing. Does all this make sense? Dave >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5601 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5614 07-11-88 18:41 (Read 104 times) from: JOHN GRANT to: DAVE KOCOL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: T-PASCAL Reply to #5603 Why not write standalone data entry modules for the remote PCs that can be batched (and edited) remotely and uploaded to a BBS with some sort of script file? There are plenty of good BBS packages that could be modified thus, and a six-field database shouldn't be that hard to program for the standalones. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5601 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5641 07-13-88 22:06 (Read 100 times) from: DAVE KOCOL to: JOHN GRANT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: T-PASCAL Reply to #5614 John, The content of your message (the one I am replying to) sounds good, can you elaborate? One of the reasons that I'm tring to write the file is that it must be fool proof, as many fools will be using it. It must be able to be used by someone who is very computer illiterate. In addition to that, my boss is cheap, and would be hard to persuade to use some of his hard fought budget on software. He is not a computer literate type, and has difficulty in trusting things he doesn't understand. Sound interesting? Thanks for the input, I'll be looking for your response. Dave >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5601 reply #3 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5604 07-11-88 02:51 (Read 107 times) from: PAUL SCHMIDT to: ALL subject: CODEVIEW? WHAT CODEVIEW? With all of the discussion about which 'C' to buy and what functions the debuggers have, I've been amused to find a lot of interest in these areas. Do you people really use the debuggers included with these compilers? I also chuckled a bit when someone accused Phil Katz of being a 'Real Programmer' as if it were some kind of insult. If Mr. Katz is the Mr. Katz I'm thinking of, he is truely a 'Real Programmer'. Phil, are you the Phil Katz who did the original Graftrix graphics subsystem? Hm.... About the debuggers, I've used MS C 3.x, 4.x, and 5.x (now on 5.1), and I've dabbled with Codeview enough to know that it's useless for operating system shells, memory resident programs, programs that accellerate the system clock...really most of what I do. In writing Reference File (a memory resident database), I found it more cumbersome to use a debugger than guess. Oh well, REAL programmers have E.S.P. On a constructive note, I discovered something in the last project I did that decreased my development time by an incredible amount, and I swear I'll never write another large application without it. I was writing a graphics operating system for a CAD/CAE company to write appilcations with, and I was using pointing devices for input. Since I had the routines for serial handling already resident in the code, I modified them to run with a second serial port and put in all sorts of traps to output stuff to the second serial port. HEY! I can tell what the hell the program is doing, and I don't need a debugger all of the sudden. Since I had an operating system that accepted calls from applications exec'd from it, I output the calls in C source format on the second terminal, and whammo, I have executable code that duplicates what happened. This type of debugging environment allows the second terminal to act as a bonehead debugger if you also put in code to listen to the terminal, single stepping, string traps, etc. I even have a mode in it so I can step around through memory and look at what's really there. My nickname for this debugging fascility is 'E.S.P.'...Hm.... Would anyone out there be interested in buying a TSR that did these functions with a COM port if I were to write a marketable version of it? --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5615 07-11-88 20:49 (Read 107 times) from: PHIL KATZ to: PAUL SCHMIDT (Rcvd) subject: R: CODEVIEW? WHAT CODEVI Reply to #5604 Paul, I read somewhere that "Real programmers don't eat quiche - they eat twinkies, coke, and palette scorching Szechwan food." Well, that describes me to a T. However, I haven't written in Graftex software. >Phil> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5604 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5607 07-11-88 07:58 (Read 103 times) from: STEVEN KEY to: JEFF WELCH subject: A86STUFF As an a86 user I like to keep the latest version. I have 3.17. Is the "latest" version you uploaded newer than that ? Thanks. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5613 07-11-88 16:51 (Read 104 times) from: RICHARD HILLIARD to: ALL subject: PROGRAMMER WANTED I am looking for one or more DataFlex people to assist me in a large project. If you are interested please contact me in private. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5763 07-22-88 12:26 (Read 106 times) from: STEVEN KEY to: RICHARD HILLIARD (Rcvd) subject: R: PROGRAMMER WANTED Reply to #5613 I have a friend in Madison who has done quite a bit of Dataflex work. He does not keep an account on this board. He asked me to help him get in touch with you. If you like, you can call him at 608 837 5527, name of Jim Wargula. If you would prefer, you can leave me your number, and I will give it to him. Steve s}i~ ` >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5613 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5770 07-23-88 06:12 (Read 105 times) from: RICHARD HILLIARD to: STEVEN KEY (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PROGRAMMER WANTED Reply to #5763 Thank You I will contact him. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5613 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5617 07-12-88 01:44 (Read 110 times) from: JAMES DICKE to: ALL subject: C SCREEN HELP cc: PHIL KATZ I have been tring to get the DOS INT calls working though Quick C v5. I was able to get INT 5 print screen to work fine. But the registers don't seem to be passed correctly cause any combination on them does nothing. Could any one help me out? What I'm eventually tring to do is make a "TEXT SCREEN" editor that allows you to "cursor" around the screen and enter text. Then I will read the screen data (directly at B000 or B800 i guess) to save it. I am very new to the C world and could use any guidence. Am I barking up the wrong tree? From what I can figure out, C dosn't have any screen handling functions so I figured I have to use BIOS. P.S. How do I specify a hex number in C? Is it a hex() function? James -------------------------------------- #include <stdio.h> #include <conio.h> #include <dos.h> union REGS regs; main() { char ch; printf ("To begin press return:"); getch ( ch ); scroll_left( 1 ); exit (0); } /*---------------------------*/ scroll_left( int lines ) { regs.h.ah = 115; /* function number 73H */ regs.h.al = lines; /* number lines to scroll */ regs.h.bh = 0; /* attr setting */ regs.h.ch = 5; /* upper left row */ regs.h.cl = 5; /* upper left column */ regs.h.dh = 25; /* lower right row */ regs.h.dl = 80; /* lower right column */ int86( 10, ®s, ®s ); } --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5618 07-12-88 02:15 (Read 102 times) from: PAUL SCHMIDT to: JAMES DICKE (Rcvd) subject: R: C SCREEN HELP Reply to #5617 James, Hex numbers are specified with the prefix '0x'. For example, the overplayed 70's rock group ABBA in hex would be assigned to a variable 'rax_munch' like this: rax_munch = 0xabba; /* for rax to watch Abba while eating */ The screen handling on the PC is really rediculous, and the standards that are out there are so non-standard and inconsistent that they become a subject for a bestseller all by themselves. A great help for me to learn C when I was using C86 (by Computer Innovations) was to write a screen handling package that used BIOS or went directly to screen memory. I learned about far pointers and compiler bugs, etc. and have since ported it all into assembly, but that package is the basis for all of my software screen handling even today. If you're really interested in learning C, write a library for yourself that is not written for any particular application, but is designed to link with any application. You'll learn a lot, and get a feel for C at the same time. Oh, by the way, printf(...) calls in most of the floating point libraries in most of the major C compilers. If it's use can be avoided, you're saved 3-8K in your .EXE file. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5617 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5625 07-12-88 22:42 (Read 100 times) from: PHIL KATZ to: JAMES DICKE (Rcvd) subject: R: C SCREEN HELP Reply to #5617 James, Well, Paul pretty much explained hex numbers in C for you. To perform screen I/O functions, you can use ANSI control sequences for such things as moving the cursor, selecting colors etc., but this is pretty slow. A faster method is to use the BIOS screen services, or directly manipulate the video RAM yourself. Anyway, just as a tip, the BIOS maps out the screen as starting at row 0, column 0 in the upper left, with the bottom right of the screen being row 24, column 79, not row 25 column 80. Also, I don't think there is a BIOS video function 115 or 0x73, nor have I heard of any BIOS functions that do sideways left or right scrolling. There are a few good files in the file collection documenting the BIOS and DOS calls. Also, the IBM technical reference manual and many aftermarket books describe this stuff as well. >Phil> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5617 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5630 07-13-88 16:49 (Read 97 times) from: JAMES DICKE to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C SCREEN HELP Reply to #5625 Well thanks for the replys, but thing is Quick C dosn't work with NANSI.SYS (the esc sequence just prints normal) whil in the editer/environment. Also I got the 115 0x.73 from a DOS call list that was on this system. It says "INT 10" set ah to 0x73 and thats a scroll left routine. Ack. I think I'll just do this in QuickBASIC and get it done with. Thanks for the input though! I hope I have better luck in the future with C.Oh, so your saying the way I set up the call should work fine ? (I mean the registers should be passed just fine the way I had it?) James >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5617 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5634 07-13-88 21:14 (Read 95 times) from: PAUL ZIMMERMAN to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C SCREEN HELP Reply to #5625 There is a BIOS function for sideways scrolling in the Tandy 1000! (I ought to know, I OWN one... :-) Tandy made the left & right scroll functions 75 & 76 hex so as to not get caught by expansion. And, they guessed pretty well. Those numbers didn't conflict with IBM's Int 10 extensions for the EGA.... (of course, no one ever USES those functions on the T1k, since only IBM features matter... but they are there...) If the guy asking the question doesn't have a T1k or other tandy machine, he is out of luck on this feature, I think. Have heard of no other machines that have it... Paul >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5617 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5635 07-13-88 21:16 (Read 96 times) from: PAUL ZIMMERMAN to: JAMES DICKE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C SCREEN HELP Reply to #5630 See my reply to Phil #5634... What you want exists only on the Tandy 1000 as far as I know. Since it it meant to be a clones of the PC Jr... maybe those have it too??? could be... Else, you are out of luck. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5617 reply #5 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5644 07-14-88 01:42 (Read 97 times) from: PHIL KATZ to: JAMES DICKE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C SCREEN HELP Reply to #5630 James, Yeah, the way you set up the call was fine. However, I don't think that function number 115 for the Video BIOS is a valid function number on most machines. According to Paul, Tandy T-1000's have that function, but normal IBM's don't. >Phil> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5617 reply #6 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5697 07-17-88 17:01 (Read 98 times) from: JAMES DICKE to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C SCREEN HELP Reply to #5644 cc: PAUL ZIMMERMAN Thank you jamesd@lakesys.UUCP Call the infamous City of Aldimar adventure system @ (414) 527-4779 Not a BBS- but an ongoing adventure GAME in a wondrous world. (Spells, Monsters, Combat, Dungeons, Equipment, Treasures, Term-emu, & more) >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5617 reply #7 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5620 07-12-88 12:46 (Read 114 times) from: BILL RANINEN to: KENNETH STRYSICK (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QB4 PROGRAMMING QU Reply to #5511 KEN, I WOULD *REALLY* APPRECIATE IT! THANKS... THE ADDRESS IS... BILL RANINEN C/O MARK GEER 6217 N. LAKE DRIVE WHITEFISH BAY, WI 53217-4341 P.S. THANX AGAIN! --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5621 07-12-88 15:00 (Read 104 times) from: SCOTT CHAMBERLAIN to: ALL subject: NEW CLIPPER MANUAL This is just a quick note for those that care. I received today my replacement chapters for my Summer '87 manual. Evidently the noise that us users made about having to insert pages, cross out old incorrect information so as to retain the stuff printed on the back, etc., made a big impression on the fellas at Nantucket. What I got was a new table of contents first page, a new chapter 5 (command reference), new chapter 6 (function reference), and a new index. These are full replacements, you pull out the old chapters in total and replace them with the new ones. The printing quality is the same as the rest of the manual - same styling, same two color (blue/black) printing. God, it feels good that they care about us so much. This is the first time I have seen that the company realizes the documentation is as important, if not more so, than the program itself. Later, Scott --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5657 07-15-88 05:25 (Read 95 times) from: TOM SWENSON to: SCOTT CHAMBERLAIN (Rcvd) subject: R: NEW CLIPPER MANUAL Reply to #5621 Scott, I also received my two new chapters with an index!!! great to receive such support. But, yesterday I was trying something new, and I got an error I had never seen before, so I went to the appendix with the error code listings for a hint... and there was nothing there. Nantucket has been great for free upgrades and the additional work on the manual, but I feel they still have left the manual unfinished, and would also like some exaamples of all features of the language... such as how do you use a udf in ACHOICE()... I finally found out, but not from the manual. Tom Swenson >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5621 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5660 07-15-88 08:43 (Read 103 times) from: SCOTT CHAMBERLAIN to: TOM SWENSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: NEW CLIPPER MANUAL Reply to #5657 If your error message wasn't detailed in the manual, I'd re-link the program with the DEBUG.OBJ and ALTERROR.OBJ modules, and try it again. I think the current debugging environment is light-years ahead of what was available in the A'86 version, but I still have problems with it. Currently I am developing a comprehensive manufacturing control and reporting system, covering nearly every phase of business for a job shop. The system runs on a Novell Advanced Netware 286 net that uses Thin Ethernet segments to hook it up. I just developed some Netware/Clipper interface routines to perform critical process synchronization between multiple workstations running the same application concurrently. The problem came in debugging the interface routines themselves, written in assembly language. I spent two days trying to find a particularly nasty bug that was preventing the whole thing from working, and was causing intermittent workstation crashes, and at one point I could crash the FILESERVER! The problem came in the fact that the Clipper debugging system captures the Ctrl-Break vector from Debug and never lets me break out of the program at that low level. And, I have no desire to single step the code until I got through all of Clipper's initialization routines and such to find the first of my test function calls! Fortunately, I was able through a process of elimination to figure out that the problem was in how I was setting up the DS register before the Netware function call - thus triggering the dire conseqences. The irony is that if I could have coordinated Clipper's debugger and Debug I would have spotted the incorrect value in the segment register much more quickly and would have solved the problem in about an hour's time. One day I may just spring (or talk the accountants at my client into springing) for an Atron Bugbuster or a Periscope debugger, but it's a little tough to justify up to $5000 for this kind of thing. Well,one can wish can't one? Later, Scott >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5621 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5622 07-12-88 16:01 (Read 103 times) from: TOM PETERS to: DAVID NYE (Rcvd) subject: CLOCK PROGRAMS David: I took a few clock programs apart for you. HYPERCLK.COM does INs from ports at 2C1, 281, 2CE, 2C7, 2C6, 2C5. A program called SETDOS that reads the clock and sets the DOS time & date from it does INs from ports at 171 and outs to a port at 170. SETRTC sets the clock chip and does a lot of peculiar things. This sequence shows up a lot: xxxx:0351 JMP SHORT 352 xxxx:0352 JMP SHORT 353 and then more code. The two meaningless jumps are used after every OUT instruction, presumably to flush the prefetch queue on '286 and '386 computers, or waste time, or both. It might be wise for you to do the same. I think MASM lets you code them as JMP $+1 SETRTC has some code like this in it: MOV DX,170 MOV AL,0A OUT DX,AL JMP $+1 JMP $+1 MOV AL,26 INC DX OUT DX,AL DEC DX JMP $+1 JMP $+1 MOV AL,0B OUT DX,AL JMP $+1 JMP $+1 MOV DX,171 MOV AL,82 OUT DX,AL and etcetera. Why they bash so many constants out I can't tell you. Hope this helps. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5735 07-19-88 23:58 (Read 88 times) from: DAVID NYE to: TOM PETERS (Rcvd) subject: R: CLOCK PROGRAMS Reply to #5622 Thanks. I found a program a friend had which works on my system. It accesses a block of ports starting at 01ED. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5622 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5623 07-12-88 16:02 (Read 107 times) from: TOM PETERS to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: INTERESTING CODE Phil: I disassembled a program for a guy and found that this sequence shows up a lot: xxxx:0351 JMP SHORT 352 xxxx:0352 JMP SHORT 353 and then more code. The two meaningless jumps are used after every OUT instruction, presumably to flush the prefetch queue on '286 and '386 computers, or waste time, or both. Are jumps like that often used after In/Out? Why? I think MASM lets you code them as JMP $+1. Will that wind up being a short jump (least bytes required for instructions) or would one have to code it as JMP SHORT $+1 ? Or would MASM force me to assign labels and JMP SHORT label? Here's a real cute piece of code. This routine is called from a location that has a $ terminated message embedded in the code space right after the call, and the next instruction to execute lives right after the $ at the end of the message. I thought it was clever, once I figured out what it does, especially the JMP SI. You don't have to load the address of a message to print out to the console, just embed it in the code and call this routine. Too bad it won't work so well in EXE files, nor places where the code and data have to be separate. MSG: POP SI CLD AGN: LODSB CMP AL,24 JE QUIT MOV DL,AL MOV AH,2 INT 21 JMP AGN QUIT: JMP SI --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5627 07-12-88 22:55 (Read 107 times) from: PHIL KATZ to: TOM PETERS (Rcvd) subject: R: INTERESTING CODE Reply to #5623 Tom, In IBM's AT technical reference manual, they recommend placing jmp short $+2 statements between back-to-back port I/O statements. The reason is to allow slower I/O devices enough time to respond to each operation, especially for slower cards that were designed for 4.77MHz PC's etc. Basically, if you don't do something time consuming between operations, it's usually a good idea to put a jmp short $+2 after a I/O instruction. For example, in al,dx jmp short $+2 and al,0feh out dx,al Since the AND instruction is very fast. As you said, the JMP instruction causes the prefetch to be cleared, wasting enough time for the I/O device to recover. With todays faster computers and cards designed to run at higher speeds, I don't know how worthwhile this practice really is, but it's probably better to be safe than sorry. #-) >Phil> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5623 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5629 07-13-88 13:02 (Read 98 times) from: TOM PETERS to: ALL subject: MASM PSEUDO OP DOES MASM HAVE A IFDEF PSEUDO OPERATOR? I have a routine that uses a data area at the label SWITCH_TABLE and the routine is in my library of my own commonly used routines. Now any routine that searches my library causes the linker to croak, since not all programs that search that library don't call PARSE_N and consequently don't define SWITCH_TABLE. I didn't realize it until recently because the programs I've assembled recently all call PARSE_N and also define SWITCH_TABLE. What I need is a way to define SWITCH_TABLE as dummy values if the main routine doesn't do so. A deeper question arises: I thought that the linker includes code ONLY for routines that are called or referenced. Why then does the linker bother with SWITCH_TABLE, a structure only refernced by PARSE_N, a routine I don't even call or reference? Does the EXTRN pseudo op make LINK include the code? --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5637 07-13-88 21:36 (Read 94 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: TOM PETERS (Rcvd) subject: R: MASM PSEUDO OP Reply to #5629 Tom, MASM does have an IFDEF type of pseudo op. As in C, the MASM command line invocation does accept a -Dsymbol[=xxxx] option to control assembly. It's the IFDEF directive. Works very much like the C form. Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5629 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5643 07-14-88 01:38 (Read 94 times) from: PHIL KATZ to: TOM PETERS (Rcvd) subject: R: MASM PSEUDO OP Reply to #5629 Tom, Using the EXTRN operator in MASM, causes the linker to try and resolve that symbol, whether you actually use it later on in the program or not. Also, the linker links in OBJECT files as they are referenced. Say you were to have a .ASM file with 6 subroutines in it. Even if you call just one routine in that module, the entire object module with all 6 subroutines will be linked in. >Phil> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5629 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5649 07-14-88 11:31 (Read 96 times) from: TOM PETERS to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MASM PSEUDO OP Reply to #5637 What I want is to define a variable if it's not already defined elsewhere: IFNDEF SWITCH_TABLE SWITCH_TABLE DB 0,0,0,0,'$' ENDIF Like so. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5629 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5650 07-14-88 11:34 (Read 98 times) from: TOM PETERS to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MASM PSEUDO OP Reply to #5643 Ok, so I take my EXTRN reference out for that troublesome routine. All my routines in my little library were assembled and linked separately, except for some that are always used together. There were inserted into my DOS_NEAR library one at a time as I converted and debugged them. This should result in the least amount of code being linked in right? Only what is called should be ilcluded in the EXE file by LINK, as I understand it. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5629 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5654 07-14-88 23:03 (Read 94 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: TOM PETERS (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MASM PSEUDO OP Reply to #5649 Tom, You can do it just about as you described. Have you tried it yet and got errors of some kind? What are the results? What version of MASM are you using? IFDEF/IFNDEF ... ENDIF is available in masm 4.0 and up. Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5629 reply #5 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5662 07-15-88 12:18 (Read 94 times) from: TOM PETERS to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MASM PSEUDO OP Reply to #5654 IFNDEF isn't going to help me. I made the EXTRN PARSE_N:PROC statement and certain other things into include files, and made some other changes, and that solves this particular problem. IFNDEF does help, I just realized, because 1. I don't need SWITCH_TABLE to be defined always. Only if there are calls to PARSE_N and 2. PARSE_N will have been already assembled and shoved into a library. MASM doesn't know whether SWITCH_TABLE is defined or not, because it could be in a library module. Only LINK knows for sure. My big problem was that I had the name of EVERY one of my library routines listed in EXTRN statements in EXTRN.INC which I routinely included in my code. So I guess the linker was trying to resolve EVERY one. MAybe I should give EXTRN routine:PROC only for sub's I actually call, maybe LINK could do it's thing faster. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5629 reply #6 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5669 07-15-88 21:08 (Read 97 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: TOM PETERS (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MASM PSEUDO OP Reply to #5662 Tom, I'm a little lost ... but your overall plan to activate only the routines actually used for externs reads like the right strategy. Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5629 reply #7 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5631 07-13-88 17:03 (Read 97 times) from: BILL RANINEN to: ALL subject: VIEWING ANSI VIA "BASIC" HELP! DEAR COMPUTER WIZES, I WOULD LIKE TO CREATE A BASIC PROGRAM THAT WILL ALLOW ME TO INPUT AND VIEW A ANSI (.ANS) FILE. I'VE TRIED THE REGULAR PRINT STATEMENT...ALL THAT DOES IS GIVE ME THE RAW CHARACTERS...IT DOES NOT CONTROL THE COLOR OR OTHER FUCTIONS OF ANSI...I WOULD LIKE TO COMPILEE IT ALSO. I HAVE TBASIC AND QBASIC. ONCVE COMPILED, I WOULD LIKE TO RUN THE PROGRAM...BE PROPTED WITH THE FILENAME...AND IT WILL READ THE FILE AND DISPLAY (IN FULL ANSI) IT. IT IS SIMULAR TO "TYPE" COMMAND...ALTHOUGH, I WOULD LIKE TO VARY THE SPEED. IF ANYONE WOULD KNOW OF THIS SITUATION, I WOULD APPRECIATE IT MUCH. THANK YOU, BILL RANINEN --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5664 07-15-88 13:26 (Read 96 times) from: BILL RANINEN to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: R: R: VIEWING ANSI VIA " Reply to #5645 THANX PHIL! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5631 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5665 07-15-88 13:29 (Read 95 times) from: BILL RANINEN to: STEVEN KEY (Rcvd) subject: R: R: VIEWING ANSI VIA " Reply to #5648 STEVE, THANX FOR TRHE INFO. YES, I KNOW ABOUT THE ANSI.SYS. I CREATE ANSI SCREENS FOR A BBS SYSTEM HERE IN MILW...ALTHOUGH, SOME PEOPLE WISH TO D/L THEM AND HAVE IT DISPLAYED WITH VARIBALE SPEEDS, CAUSE I PUT ANIMATION INTO THEM. BILL // S >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5631 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5742 07-20-88 13:15 (Read 92 times) from: BILL RANINEN to: STEVEN KEY (Rcvd) subject: R: R: VIEWING ANSI VIA " Reply to #5666 Steve, I just wrote the program in Tbasic. I used... C=NUMLINES: FOR A=1 TO C:FOR B=1 TO LEN(L$(A)):? MID$(L$(A),B,1);:NEXT:NEXT Statements. It seems to work well. I also let the user vary the speed. Thanx Again, // >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5631 reply #3 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5632 07-13-88 17:40 (Read 103 times) from: SCOTT KLEINHANS to: ALL subject: LARGE CLIPPER/DBASE FILE I've got a few very big dbase files that when Archived are bigger than 720k and I need to get them on disketts (360k/720k). Does anyone know of a program that is available to split archived files apart and then able to restore the entire file ? Thanks Scott --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5640 07-13-88 21:56 (Read 102 times) from: TOM FELLER to: SCOTT KLEINHANS (Rcvd) subject: R: LARGE CLIPPER/DBASE F Reply to #5632 Try DOS BACKUP. Its in the MS-DOS manual! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5632 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5658 07-15-88 05:29 (Read 101 times) from: TOM SWENSON to: SCOTT KLEINHANS (Rcvd) subject: R: LARGE CLIPPER/DBASE F Reply to #5632 Scott, you can use the dos backup.com program, but I don't care too much for it myself. If it is just a matter of backing up to floppy .dbf files b bigger than the size of the disk... I wrote a program which will copies so many records onto each disk using the commmands: use master copy to file backup1.dbf next 750 with some other control code... you can have a user change destination disk sizes and break a program down and backup the big file to floppies.. Hope that helped. Tom Swenson >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5632 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5633 07-13-88 21:08 (Read 98 times) from: BILL PREW to: ALL subject: DOS DEVICE DRIVERS I've recently upgraded to #Com 3+Share, and have to load nearly 150K worth of device drivers for it. Needless to say, I'm running into memory problems sometimes. What I'm looking for is a utility to load device drivers after boot-up, instead of from config.sys. It seems like this should be workable, and I'm thinking of writing something myself, unless someone responds with an existing tool. My approach would involve creating a program that would load the desired device drivers into memory, and call them with the INIT code. The program that loads them would terminate like a TSR, and leave the memory used by the drivers allocated to DOS. Anyone have any comments on this approach, any reasons why it won't work, or any holes to watch out for. Any help greatly appreciated. Thanks, Bill --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5638 07-13-88 21:47 (Read 95 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: BILL PREW (Rcvd) subject: R: DOS DEVICE DRIVERS Reply to #5633 Bill, What's the problem with letting everything come in at boot time? If you want your driver's to be transient to maximize memoray available when you need it and make driver impactas marginal, your general approach is not quite right. You'd trap you non-device code in memory behind your tsr. The way i'd approach it would be somehting like this: o write a device driver which would load/execute/ delete the real driver code o put all data areas which must be retained across driver calls in the bootstrapping driver To avoid having to load (and therefore read from disk) the real driver for every i/o event, I'd try to limit the load/delete to only once per process. Otherwise, you have the right idea. Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5633 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5646 07-14-88 01:46 (Read 98 times) from: PHIL KATZ to: BILL PREW (Rcvd) subject: R: DOS DEVICE DRIVERS Reply to #5633 Bill, It costs more, but if you get the Ether+ or 3+ or whatever network cards with RAM on the cards, most of the network software can be loaded into the card RAM, leaving most of your 640K space free. >Phil> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5633 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5651 07-14-88 18:29 (Read 99 times) from: BILL PREW to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DOS DEVICE DRIVERS Reply to #5646 Interesting approach, I have seen that discussed other places, and now that you mention it I remember reading something to that effect. The 3+ drivers are the main offender, although I would like to be able to dynamically load other drivers. Since I'm a corporate user, I can probably get the smart card approach if it looks right, although I have heard one problem. I have heard that running a 20mHz '386 box as I am, that the smart card can actually reduce network interface performance compared to the dumb board. I assume this is because my '386 can execute the driver code faster than the processor on the board. May not be a significant drawback, I'll have to find out more. I hope your legal troubles with SEA are behind you, hate to see good software developers getting the wrong end of things. Thanks for the input. Bill >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5633 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5652 07-14-88 18:35 (Read 98 times) from: BILL PREW to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DOS DEVICE DRIVERS Reply to #5638 Grant, here's the deal. I'm running a '386 machine, and want to take advantage of Windows/386. This can provide multiple 640 partitions on the system. The problem is that since Windows loads after all device drivers loaded by config.sys are in memory, each partition size is reduced in size by the driver overhead (some 150k). I haden't envisioned reloading the drivers every call, only once in a while. What I mean is that from the command line they could be loaded and then stay in memory just like they would from config.sys. A further enhancement would allow removal by a command, but I could live without that. By loading them from the command line, I could have seperate windows with just the drivers needed loaded, and also still have a window with few drivers and lots of ram. I've looked at a program called COMP, but it doesn't seem complete. It also seems like more than I really need. Thanks for your inputs, keep 'em coming. Bill >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5633 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5655 07-14-88 23:07 (Read 96 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: BILL PREW (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DOS DEVICE DRIVERS Reply to #5652 I think, the technique I described --- process/task/program based activation and deletion of the selected device drivers as needed, should solve your problem. Was my suggestion in my original commentary clear enough? Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5633 reply #5 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5674 07-16-88 05:30 (Read 97 times) from: BILL PREW to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DOS DEVICE DRIVERS Reply to #5655 Yes, I understood basically what you were saying. Haven't heard much from anyone else on this topic, guess I'll just have to try and see what happens. Later, Bill >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5633 reply #6 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5639 07-13-88 21:50 (Read 93 times) from: TOM FELLER to: ALL subject: MSC MEMAVAIL O.K. someone help me. In TurboC you can get the total memory available by useing the coreleft function. MSC has no function to do this. We called and they said so. They said "you have to do it manually" . We asked how? They said "I don't know". Great! What does manually mean? go into a DOS shell and do a chkdsk? I have a way to do it but it's too slow. I did a binary search using a halloc. I got a tolerance of +-32 bytes in 11 iterations. But, it took over 1/4th of a second. We are using this in a kernal with our program in test mode. It displays the bytes free at the bottom right side of the screen continuously. But, it's so slow its makes our program respond jerky. Does anyone have a faster method, assembly language is O.K. I thought of stack pointer - heap pointer but the heap is not contiguous is it. I am using the large memory model so the Microsoft memavail function is to no avail. It, along with all the other Microsoft avail functions only show available memory for the current data segment or near heap, the same thing. I need to know all memory available. Our testers use this function to find weak spots in our program. If the users run out of memory they are not happy campers. Help! -Tom Feller- --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5647 07-14-88 01:54 (Read 97 times) from: PHIL KATZ to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: MSC MEMAVAIL Reply to #5639 Tom, Have you looked at the _freect() function in MSC? I believe that if you call _freect(1), that it should return the number of bytes left. In the large model, it appears that this would mean the number of bytes left in the far heap. >Phil> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5639 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5653 07-14-88 22:30 (Read 98 times) from: TOM FELLER to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MSC MEMAVAIL Reply to #5647 I was wrong about the time of my function. It took 1/100th of a second. But, DOS is only good to 1/100 th so it may be less. The program is still more jerky than with turbo's coreleft. I will try that function. I thought that was for the near heap. And why (1), I will look it up in the manual at work. Thanks Tom Feller >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5639 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5656 07-15-88 01:25 (Read 91 times) from: PAUL SCHMIDT to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MSC MEMAVAIL Reply to #5653 Tom, Even though DOS returns time values through calls to the time function in 100ths of a second, it is still dependent on the system clock tick which is only updated about 18.2 times a second. If you write a quick assembly language routine to write directly to screen ram and write the value that dos returns to the screen, you won't see it change 100 times a second. For that matter, since the screen is only about 30 times a second, you probably won't see anything interesting. Scratch that idea. Anyway, the time is based on the clock tick, so your routine could have taken anywhere from virtually no time to 1/9th of a second. void *poof; >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5639 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5672 07-15-88 22:48 (Read 94 times) from: TOM FELLER to: PAUL SCHMIDT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MSC MEMAVAIL Reply to #5656 Yea, I think you are right, the results are not too good lower than 1/10 th of a second. I should run the function 100 times for a benchmark. MSC should have coreleft(). MSC is very weak for the cost. Turbo is better in so many ways. A friend at work is selling MSC. He said he spent most of his time doing non c related stuff with MSC. With TurboC he can get to work. Our company hates MSC. Its a waste of time. It compiles to slow. If we used MSC we would be 6 months behind on our projects. Now, we are almost running out of work! Tom >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5639 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5684 07-16-88 20:39 (Read 92 times) from: TIM NESHAM to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MSC MEMAVAIL Reply to #5672 Perhaps you can write your code in AutoLISP and use a AutoLISP to C translator. Heck, you'll have all the work you need then and it will still probably be faster than MSC. But seriously folks.... C'mon Tom! 6 months? True, it takes 6 months to learn MSC, codeview. But that is so short compared to the time it will take to use OS/2. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5639 reply #5 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5642 07-14-88 00:10 (Read 95 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: ALL subject: PASCAL TO C TRANSLATORS For those of you who are interested in Pascal to C translations ... In the Mahoney collection , there is now TPTC17G, a pascal to c translation system. I've been trying it out for a while and find it pretty darn good. It's better than any other I've found in shareware or public domain. It is a darn sight better than its own predecessors (tptc17f ... tptc16 ... TPC15 ... or pretpc15). Sam Smith at the Tool Shop in Phoenix, AZ has done a tremendous job with this software since I first found it last fall. It has improved tremendously since. There are still a few problems in translating obscure and obtuse With ... DO ... constructs, but otherwise, it is quite sound. If you have a need to translate some substantial amount of Pascal (Turbo or other) to C, and don't want to spend big $$$ on a strictly commercial package, give this one a try. As mentioned, there are problems with the translations of statements in a WITH ... DO ... construct; the majro problem is when 2 or more structures have member entities of the same name and same type ... then the translation gets confused. That is the ONLY major problem I've found. Sam will be working on an upgrade sometime soon - and will probably address this problem then. The other area which can be a problem for some translations is that the system over-uses called functions for some typoes fo TP function conversions to C. These you can fix in the supplied and generated code. I'd be interested in any comments and problems you may have on this trans- lator. Have fun with it. Grant ps: There are 3 ARCs in the system. TPTC17G, the operational code and supporting files; TPTC17GS, the source code and other docs; TPTC17GT, the test cases. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5659 07-15-88 05:50 (Read 92 times) from: TOM SWENSON to: SCOTT KLEINHANS (Rcvd) subject: CLIPPER BACKUP Scott, after I had sent my message I realized the command I gave you was incorrect... what Ihad meant was: use master copy to a:backup1.dbf next 750 when you have used this the current record will be 750. you can then run the same command for the next 750 until end of file sorry for the mistake... Tom Swenson --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5722 07-19-88 16:07 (Read 88 times) from: SCOTT KLEINHANS to: TOM SWENSON (Rcvd) subject: R: CLIPPER BACKUP Reply to #5659 Tom I have not tried the DOS Backup command yet. What I have is several large .DBF files, the largest is 3.5 million bytes (unarchived) it is just under 800 thousand bytes archived I need to sent this file to several locations in Europe. And I cannot garentee that all locations are using the same version of DOS as myself (3.3). So what I want is to break this file up onto two disketts and send it around the world. I would rather not leave the file Un-archived. I guess I'll try the DOS backup command and see how it works. Thanks for the ideas Scott. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5659 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5731 07-19-88 20:28 (Read 88 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: SCOTT KLEINHANS (Rcvd) subject: R: R: CLIPPER BACKUP Reply to #5722 Scott, Previous versions of DOS cannot read the 3.3 backups. They changed the format on disk for greater speed. To date, I haven't figured a way to use backup to transfer the files. As mentioned before, you might want to use SPLIT or CHOP or CUT or the other file splitting utilities, then have the receipents recombine them. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5659 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5736 07-20-88 05:17 (Read 91 times) from: TOM SWENSON to: SCOTT KLEINHANS (Rcvd) subject: R: R: CLIPPER BACKUP Reply to #5722 Scott, it sounds like the backup command will be the way to go... but you could also use dbase to copy half the records to one file and half to another, and then archive each one. These two files (or maybe break it into thirds) will possibly fit onto separate disks if the archive size is less than 360k( I'm assuming use are using this size of drive). Doing this will avoid usage of the backup command which do not care for. I have also seen some incompatilities between dos versions with the backup command. It may be just a matter of command syntax, but it may not. In past versions I remember hereing lots of complaints. Do what you feel is best. If I can help let me know. If you separate the files into pieces first, It would be just a matter of unarchiving each one and then 'appending from' each one at a time. I would tend to trust this better than the backup command. tom >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5659 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5740 07-20-88 11:11 (Read 94 times) from: SCOTT KLEINHANS to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: CLIPPER BACKUP Reply to #5731 Glen That is what I want to do (Split,Chop or Cut) But I don't know where I can locate that type of utility. Thanks Scott >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5659 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5750 07-20-88 20:17 (Read 100 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: SCOTT KLEINHANS (Rcvd) subject: R: R: CLIPPER BACKUP Reply to #5740 Scott, Do a scan in the file collection for the strings: SPLIT or DIVIDE or something like that. You should be able to find a suitable program. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5659 reply #5 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5760 07-22-88 07:43 (Read 101 times) from: SCOTT KLEINHANS to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: CLIPPER BACKUP Reply to #5750 Glen Thanks I did a scan and found two files/programs that should do the trick SBREAK30.ARC and SPLITC.ARC. Thanks again Scott >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5659 reply #6 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5663 07-15-88 12:58 (Read 99 times) from: TOM PETERS to: ALL subject: MASM5.1 ERROR cc: GRANT ELLSWORTH cc: PHIL KATZ I just installed MASM 5.1 upgrade and I have NEW warning messages.This message 5036 doesn't seem to be in the release notes and is certainly not in my 5.0 manuals. I am using /W2 so I get my JMP SHORT help. ASM> SET MASM=/B62/W2/Z C:\LANG\MASM> masm /Zi bit7x,bit7x,bit7x,nul.crf Microsoft (R) Macro Assembler Version 5.10 Copyright (C) Microsoft Corp 1981, 1988. All rights reserved. bit7x.ASM(488): warning A5036: Extra NOP inserted bit7x.ASM(490): warning A5036: Extra NOP inserted bit7x.ASM(504): warning A5036: Extra NOP inserted bit7x.ASM(527): warning A5036: Extra NOP inserted 47360 + 192747 Bytes symbol space free 4 Warning Errors 0 Severe Errors Here's the code from the LST file: ... = 0000 FALSE EQU 0 = FFFF TRUE EQU NOT FALSE ; "BUT WHAT IS TRUTH?" - PONTIUS PILATE ... 0267 2E: C6 06 03B5 R 00 MOV CS:DID_G_FLAG,BYTE PTR FALSE bit7x.ASM(488): warning A5036: Extra NOP inserted 90 026E 8A D8 MOV BL,AL ; SAVE 0270 2E: C6 06 03AF R 00 MOV CS:IGNORE_FLAG,BYTE PTR TRUE bit7x.ASM(490): warning A5036: Extra NOP inserted ... 028B C6 06 0B8D R 01 90 MOV READSTAT,byte ptr 1 bit7x.ASM(504): warning A5036: Extra NOP inserted The other error is similar. Do I have to, or should I, recode that stu so it compiles neater? How? Got a clue, boys? --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5670 07-15-88 21:15 (Read 92 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: TOM PETERS (Rcvd) subject: R: MASM5.1 ERROR Reply to #5663 Tom, I'm wondering .... has MASM 5.0 gone a little bonkers over equated symbols ,,, after 4 "rational" releases? What happens in 5.0? It looks like a stunt in 5.1 to insert nops where it suspects they might be needed to eliminate some of those obnoxious "phase" errors. BTW, SLR's optasm has all but eradicated "phase" error from the asm 8086/286, etc.. world .. or so I read. MS fouls up again. (sigh) Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5663 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5698 07-17-88 21:19 (Read 96 times) from: PHIL KATZ to: TOM PETERS (Rcvd) subject: R: MASM5.1 ERROR Reply to #5663 Tom, I think the problem there is trying to cast TRUE or FALSE (or 1 or 0) to a pointer of any type. When you say: mov cs:flag,byte ptr TRUE I think what you really mean to say is: mov byte ptr cs:flag,TRUE The difference is in the first case it is trying to use TRUE or FALSE as an *address*! When what it appears that you really want to do is just move a byte (as opposed to a word), into a variable that you might have declared as a word. If [flag] as above is declared as a byte, than the "byte ptr" cast has no affect. However, if it is declared as something else, then you would need to say "byte ptr" if you just wanted to move one byte. >Phil> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5663 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5703 07-18-88 11:16 (Read 91 times) from: TOM PETERS to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MASM5.1 ERROR Reply to #5698 I think I had trouble at some point with moves and compares when the size of operands was in doubt, hence the BYTE PTR stuff. Using equates to set values doesn't make them any kind or size, IE TRUE EQU 0 doesn't make TRUE a byte. The 4.1 MASM objected to lot's of things I did without BYTE PTR but maybe its time to try more intuitive code with 5.1 and see how it does! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5663 reply #3 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5671 07-15-88 21:33 (Read 96 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: 370 ALC, ETC.. Phil, sometime back a few weeks , we were discussing the problems of doing an LZW compressor on the ibm 370 mainframe. I found something in the mahoney collection you may want to look at as background material on 370 ALC. See IBM370TU.ARC. Looks like a "credible" intro to the instruction set and some of the programming conventions. The i/o constructs in the similator code examples, the register conventions in the examples, and the lack of a real macro processor make it a little weak ... the examples are a little off-base, and the use of the EQU in some of the code leads to pgm bombouts if imitated too carelessly. However, it's one ofthe better places to start among those I've seen for vets without mainframe exposure. Look it over if you have the time, and tell me what you think. Grant --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5673 07-15-88 23:00 (Read 94 times) from: TOM FELLER to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: MSC MEMAVAIL No, freect(1) did not work. How could it? it returns a unsigned int. I think the large memory model has more than 64k of memory. Maybe you never used the large model. We also tried freect(10) but as the manual said freect only returns the free memory in the current data segment. MSC is very weak. The compiler is too slow. I can do debugging better without codeview. With TurboC I comment out parts, or put in printf statements or other stuff. I have seen other programmers spend hours wasting time looking at codeview. It's not worth the time. The latest word on OS/2 is that it will be impossible to debug because the hardware and DLL combinations run into the millions. MS-DOS will outlive OS/2! I also hear that UNIX or XENIX will be standardized and cost much less than OS/2. Tom Feller --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5676 07-16-88 10:42 (Read 91 times) from: JAMES SABATKE to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: MSC MEMAVAIL Reply to #5673 Tom, RE: "The latest word on OS/2 is that it will be impossible to debug because the hardware and DLL combinations will run into the millions." I imagine that you are referring to the EOF article (editorial?) in the latest Computer Language magazine. I was shocked to see such an irresponsible article in a magazine that I have always had high regard for. The author (Bruce Tonkin) asserts that there are too many versions of OS/2 out already and that each of these must be tested with each device driver. It is true that OS/2 is very hardware specific. That is why the different versions exist, but these different versions provide for compatibility across different vendors - not differences. This OS should be even better than UNIX for portibility as at this time the OS is dealing with one family of processors (80286 - 80386). Don't forget that when MS/DOS was newer that many of the "compatibles" had their own versions also. The Leading Edge (M) that I am using right now is an example of this. The author also ignored that OS/2 is providing a "real" operating system that takes advantage of the resources of the machine. I get the feeling that Tonkin is, more than any other reason, uncomfortable with having to learn a new OS. Long live OS/2. Jim >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5673 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5683 07-16-88 20:15 (Read 89 times) from: TOM FELLER to: JAMES SABATKE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MSC MEMAVAIL Reply to #5676 OS/2 more portable than UNIX? Ha Ha Ha! You will never see OS/2 running on any Motorola CPU. It's only going to run on intel CPUs. UNIX is already running on both and there is a 386 version that kills OS/2 in multitasking. Also UNIX is running on many other mini and micro computers including the VAX. We will never see OS/2 on a VAX! OS/2 portable? You can buy SCO UNIX for any current 386 machine that runs MS-DOS. That's a generic version! If you want OS/2 you have to get it from the vendor that sold you the computer. Heil, OS/2! Heil, Microsoft! I guess they want OS/2 to fail. Long live UNIX. Long live freedom! Long live "C". >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5673 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5685 07-16-88 20:43 (Read 90 times) from: TIM NESHAM to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MSC MEMAVAIL Reply to #5683 Calm down Tom. Don't want a stack overflow! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5673 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5686 07-16-88 22:52 (Read 90 times) from: JAMES SABATKE to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MSC MEMAVAIL Reply to #5683 Tom, If you notice, I did limit my portability statement to the 80x86 chips. I was noting that it should run on all of the 'compatibles' that care to invest in the version specific for their machines. I agree that UNIX may well be a better choice, but the resistance out there to UNIX will be difficult to overcome. At least OS/2 may provide a foothold in the business world for a multitasking OS. Also, single user workstations usually don't need the multi-user capability of UNIX. I really think that OS/2 will provide a nice environment with UNIX type capabilities. Also, IBM plans to port OS/2 across it's entire line of iron. BTW, I particularly enjoy programming in UNIX 'C'. Jim >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5673 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5699 07-17-88 21:26 (Read 96 times) from: PHIL KATZ to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: MSC MEMAVAIL Reply to #5673 Tom, According to my MSC manual, _freect(x) returns the number of times that you can call malloc(x) requesting a block of size x. Assuming this is correct, you could call _freect(16) and it could return a value up to 65535 meaning that malloc() could return about 1,048,576 bytes. Now, malloc() is supposed to map into _fmalloc() in the large model. The desciption for _freect() says nothing about the static data segment. However, I've never tried using _freect(), so I don't know if it works as MSC says it does or not. >Phil> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5673 reply #5 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5701 07-17-88 23:15 (Read 97 times) from: TOM FELLER to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MSC MEMAVAIL Reply to #5699 The MSC manual clearly states: "default data segment". A segment is only 64k, so the bytes free from freect would be <= 64k. We tried freect(16) and the value returned times 16 = about 5k. We are using the large memory model and we know there is over 200k free. I don't think freect works correctly in the large memory model, based on the number of mallocs. The manual seems to contradict itself on freect(). -Tom Feller- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5673 reply #6 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5679 07-16-88 13:28 (Read 97 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: ALL subject: DISABLING CTL-BRK How does one totally, completely, and utterly , eradicate bios/dos sensing the ctrl-brk key (no - I don't mean ^@ or ^C - i mean the (gross expletive deleted) ctrl + brk (scroll lock) key)????? I want to handle the ctrl-brk as if user had keyed a ^C (ctrl-c). I tried the following: 1. In TC ... setcbrk(0) - to disable cbrk, or so i thought bioskey(1) - to test keyboard status bioskey(0) - to wait/get next keystroke from kbd 2. In asm ... INT 21h , ax=3301h, dx=0000h to disable int 16h, ah=0 / wait,get keystroke, etc.. ... and in all instances I get a <cr>^C transmitted to screen at end of program (or after all screen writes, etc..) I also tried , in tc, to override the ctrl-brk vector (int 23) using the ctrlbrk(routn-name) function with an ungetch(xxxx) ... same darned results = a <cr> ^C at end of pgm sitting on the screen. Note: I issued a non-0 return code ( return(1)) after the ungetch! Am I missing something? MSDOS book suggests stomping on INT 1bh ... haven't tried that ... yet. Is that necessary? Seems to me there ought to be an easier way to curtail that key! Grant --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5680 07-16-88 19:36 (Read 88 times) from: DALE ULMER to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: DISABLING CTL-BRK Reply to #5679 I'm afraid int 0x1B is the only way to do it reliably. The following works well for me in Turbo C. /* Turn off the CTRL-C, CTRL-BREAK keys by replacing their interrupt handler with one that does nothing. It is very important that they be turned back on before the program returns to DOS. */ #include <dos.h> static void interrupt (*old1Bh)(); void cbreakoff (void) { void interrupt on_break(); void interrupt (*getvect())(); disable(); old1Bh = getvect (0x1B); /* Save the old interrupt vector */ setvect (0x1B, on_break); /* Disable CTRL C, CTRL BREAK */ enable(); } /* Turn the CTRL-C, CTRL-BREAK keys back on. */ void cbreakon (void) { disable(); setvect (0x1B, old1Bh); /* Restore original interrupt vector */ enable(); } static void interrupt on_break (void) { } >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5679 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5690 07-17-88 12:06 (Read 91 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: DALE ULMER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DISABLING CTL-BRK Reply to #5680 Dale, thx for example. I tried something like that ... and found 2 problems in my stuff and I have a question about your code fragment. q: shouldn't you statement ... void interrupt (*getvect())(); read .... void interrupt (*old1Bh())(); (????) I had a dickens of a time figuring out how to declare the variable which would store the "old-1bh" address and be accepted by the compiler for the setvect() function. I finally jury rigged a pointer var xfer to solve the problem. Could you look at your tech- nique again to be sure I/you have the expression right? My 2 additional problems were: 1. Using the bioskey() funtion, the ctrl-brk key did NOT seem to leave the keyboard in a "character-waiting state (using bioskey(1) to check) 2. bioskey(0) with no character-waiting, hangs machine until I hit any key (as expected) --- including the ctrl-brk key. This suggests that bios int 16H, funct 0, interprets a ctrl-brk key as satisfying the "key-hit" requirement --- but, bios int 16H , funct 1 (keyboard status) does not! Thus , I have to have my code force a keyboard read (bioskey(0) - int 16H, etc..) after detecting a ctrl-brk. With ctrl-brk totally deacti- vated (the way you illustrate), my machine HANGS/LOCKS-UP/GOES COMATOSE .... and the big red solution is required! Any comments? I'm using a real ordinary 8088 IBM PC 10/27/82 bios. Thx, Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5679 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5692 07-17-88 12:40 (Read 90 times) from: PAT SHEA to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DISABLING CTL-BRK Reply to #5690 Grant.... 'cuse me for butting in on what appears to be the tail end of a 'thread', but there is a file in the Mahoney collection called CTRLC.ARC which I uploaded 'bout a week or so ago. It was written by the Microsoft 'technoids' and gives examples in MSC/QC on the trapping/handleing of <Ctrl-C> and <Ctrl-Break> --- hope this may be of some help. [NOTE: I'm not zackly sure what the ARCfile's name is, but it is within the last couple of wks. and CTRLC.ARC seems to rung a bell in my memory. happyhacking... pat s. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5679 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5700 07-17-88 22:30 (Read 96 times) from: DALE ULMER to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DISABLING CTL-BRK Reply to #5690 To respond to your second point first, I'll be damned if you're not right. I hadn't fooled much with the bioskey(1) function, but it behaves exactly as you say on my AT clone too. To compound matters, the same thing happens using TC's kbhit function. Fortunately, my application doesn't require peeking at the keyboard before retrieving the value, so I hadn't encountered the problem before. When I find some free time I may join you in pounding my head against that particular wall. I suspect you may also need to take over interrupt 9. If you find a solution, please share it. The answer to your first question is no. The void interrupt (*getvect())() line is to tell the compiler that the getvect function returns a pointer to an interrupt. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5679 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5710 07-19-88 00:13 (Read 89 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: DALE ULMER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DISABLING CTL-BRK Reply to #5700 Dale, ... more details and other item ... On your reply to my first question ... how do I give the ptr a name? And, generally ... Oh, really??!!!! I'll have to give it a try. I found that " void interrupt (*myinterrupt_ptr)();" worked for the pointer definition. More details: I figured out something which worked. 1. I overode intr 1bH and intr 23H whith my own interrupts which set a ctrl-brk found flag to true 2. I used the following sequence to get the effect I wanted .. kbstatus = bioskey(1); /* test for key pressed via bios not dos */ if (ctrl_brk) /* if ctrl_break flag is true (set by my intr 1bh) */ { mychar = 0x1d03; /* set an arbitrary ctrl brk kbd id */ kbstatus = TRUE; /* fake-out next test to read kbd */ ctrl_brk = FALSE; /* open up for next ctrl_brk */ } if (kbstatus){ /* if bios or faker says kbd was hit .... */ newchar = bioskey(0); mychar = (newchar ? newchar : mychar); /* that is... */ kbstatus = FALSE; /* clear flag for next cycle */ } /* (above) if new char from keyboard != 0 then use it ... else use mychar set from above by ctrl_brk test */ /* bioskey(0) returns a 2-byte code from keyboard , regular char and its candidate scan code (0xhh00 -> scan code char, while 0xnncc = non-scan code character -- nn = kbd position, cc = actual hex-char value */ /* ctrl_brk actually leaves a 0x0000 in the kbd buffer (start posn) and bioskey() will return that 0 value. You must override or intercept the intr 09H function (bios kbd interrupt in order to accept the ctrl_brk as a normal character without re-starting/clearing the kbd buffer. I did NOT go that far. This is what MS did in the CAROTC example recently uploaded (Please forgive me, I've gotten confused as to whgich of you reading this trhread did upload that interesting example. It was verfy useful) ... Example was in CAROTC.ARC - named CTRL.C. */ I should also note that the MS example , which used KBHIT() to test for key waiting did NOT trap the ^@ (chich also generates a ctrl_break like condition. Bioskey(0) return 0x0300 for ^@ (ctrl_@). Thus, I cholse to stick with the bioskey() solution overriding the 1BH and 23H interrupts. If the 1bH interrupt is not restored before pgm exit, you will find that you are in deeeeeep shinola .... BEWARE of using this technique or the one where the kbd interrupt is overridden. Restore or big red will be your only restoration! I hope this is illuminating. I'd still like one of you veteran gurus out there to confirm the behavior of intr 16H as I think it's working vs a vs the ctrl-brk key. Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5679 reply #5 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5721 07-19-88 14:31 (Read 89 times) from: DALE ULMER to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DISABLING CTL-BRK Reply to #5710 Yes, "void interrupt (*myinterrupt_ptr)()" declares myinterrupt to be a VARIABLE that HOLDS a pointer to a function of type void (modified by "interrupt"). By the same token, "void interrupt (*getvect())()" declares getvect to be a FUNCTION that RETURNS a pointer to a function of type void (modified by "interrupt"). Yes, of course I find that to be confusing. Everyone except for Kernighan, Ritchie and Katz finds it to be confusing, and I suspect that even Kernighan is mildly bewildered. I've made a note of your solution to the problem. It's bound to be useful eventually. I think I'll download CAROTC.ARC and have a look at it. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5679 reply #6 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5724 07-19-88 19:18 (Read 90 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: DALE ULMER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DISABLING CTL-BRK Reply to #5721 cc: PAT SHEA Dale, just for your info ... the TC prototype in dos.h declares "getvect()" just as you did in the raw sample. Also, the declaration subsumes "far * ..". Thus , ... #include <dos.h> ... void far * farptr; void interrupt (*intrrupt_ptr)(); .... are both accepted as receivers of the getvect() return value without obtuse typecasting. Hence your in-line declaration would be redundantl in TC and would not be necessary. I'm surprised MS appears not to do the same. I'm putting together a more generic bios-call based ctrl-brk (and clones) processor than the MS example. I'll upolad it as soon as I verify that it really works and can be easily modified. I'm surprised that this has not been done yet. The ctrl-brk, ^C, and ^@ have been hazards of pc screen oriented , very-user-friendly software for quite some time. What a nuisance!!!!! Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5679 reply #7 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5728 07-19-88 20:22 (Read 89 times) from: DALE ULMER to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DISABLING CTL-BRK Reply to #5724 You're right about it's being a nuisance, but I must point out that Turbo C is a part of the problem. I'm not Borland bashing - I have an unused copy of MSC 5.0 on the shelf. Before Borland got around to buying out the old Wizard C compiler and repackaging it, I used to use Aztec C. It had quite a collection of weirdnesses and faults, but it was a fairly quick compiler that produced fast executing code. A nice point in its favor was the fact that CTRL-BREAK could be turned off with a simple call to signal(). As you've discovered, that doesn't work in Turbo C. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5679 reply #8 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5733 07-19-88 21:16 (Read 89 times) from: PAT SHEA to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DISABLING CTL-BRK Reply to #5724 Grant.... I've pulled in the 'thread' on this one but have not, as yet, had a chance to plod thru it. 'be VERY interested in seeing ur solution to this one !! pat s. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5679 reply #9 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5745 07-20-88 18:48 (Read 98 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: DALE ULMER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DISABLING CTL-BRK Reply to #5728 Dale, that's interesting (using the signal() function). I wonder what other signal() facilities other C compilers have that I have yet to wish I had available..... Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5679 reply #10 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5772 07-23-88 22:06 (Read 96 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: PAT SHEA (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DISABLING CTL-BRK Reply to #5733 Pat, I've got at least 2 solutions - both are ugly. They both involve writing an INT09 (Keyboard Interrupt) front end - a la CAROTC.ARC which originated w/Microsoft and which , by the way , does not and can not work on a ps/2 and possibly on an AT. The reason the INT09 front end can't work on a ps/2 is because the ps/2 keyboard is re-entrant (in bios) and some keys send several character (byte) sequences to the interrupt before the 1st is finished - ^brk is a PRIME OFFENDER. However, the problem can be solved. Generally, the MS solution is structurally correct. However, one must keep in mind that if one wishes to stick strictly with DOS services (NO BIOS calls) and use KBHIT() to determine if a key was pressed before calling getch(), one will find, much to one's EXTREME aggrevation, that there ain't no way to get a 0x03 in the keyboard buffer past kbhit() (dos service 0bh via int 21). The 2 solutions are: 1. The pure DOS Solution (including use of kbhit() so you don't lock up your program waiting on a keystroke) o nullify int 23h (ctrl-c,ctrl-brk for dos) and int 1bh (ctrl-brk, only, for BIOS) o Intercept keyboard interrupt 09h (don't write a replacement ,,, just a "little" front-end stuff) which tests incoming scan codes for the problem characters (^C, ^brk, and, ^@), and resets the contents of the keyboard buffer AFTER calling the real int 9h (test before call, set kbd buffer after call) programmer has option of allowing bios to reset (wipe out typed ahead keystrokes) the kbd buffer, or inserting special code (2 bytes) for the ctrl-brk. Messing with the keyboard-head, keyboard-tail bios pointers is risque, but it seems to be the only way to get "streamed" sequential use of the ^brk key o Use the following sequence to get characters from the keyboard ... if(kbhit()) { /* tests to see if character waiting in kbd buff */ ch = getch(); /* get unsigned int from dos intr 21, funct 07) */ if (!ch) ch = EXTENDED+getch() /* gets char after scan code */ /* and sets character to scancode + whatever you choose to give it a unique code */ /* the following could be used if you inserted scan-code-like values in the kbd buffer for the process breakers */ switch (ch) { case CTRL_C : ch=stnd_CTRL_C ; break; ....... case ALT_03 : ch=diff_CTRL_C ; break; /* don't forget about this one !!!!! */ } } 2. The BIOS solution using BIOSKEY(0), and BIOSKEY(1) (using intr 16h, fn's 0 and 1) This is almost the same as the DOS solution - except that the only special key that must be checked for in the intr 09 intercept is the ^brk - and then onlyu necessary if you want to prevent a ^brk from resetting the keyboard buffer or wish to set a special value for it in the kbd buffer before bios call to get character The main-line processing uses BIOSKEY() to determine kbd status and then get the keyobard character AND its scan code in 1 call. 2 get- character calls if there was a scan code are not necessary. There is NO other solution that I've been able to verify - i've even tried the obtuse IOCTL() functions --- and it just looks like the DOS status functions (both ioctl, funct 06, and int 21, funct 0bh) can not let an 0x03 character be in the kbd buffer without protesting. And there is NO good clean way to turn the (expletive deleted) thing off. BOO HISS to MS, DOS, .... and heaven help us if they haven't done something better in OS/2!!! I'm working on "more correct" and complete example ... I'll uipload it in a few days as soon as I'm done I hope this long thread and its resolution will be useful to somebody other than me. Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5679 reply #11 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5773 07-23-88 22:50 (Read 96 times) from: PAT SHEA to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DISABLING CTL-BRK Reply to #5772 Grant ---- 'look's like Ur really into this one! Thank heaven that I've never hit anything that I couldn't handle w/ signal( ... ). Just this afternoon, I spent 'bout an hour trying to 'grok' the CAROTC code in toto and am almost 'there'..... lemme spend a bit of time with Ur current, "interim report". happyhacking!!! pat s. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5679 reply #12 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5782 07-24-88 23:44 (Read 95 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: PAT SHEA (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DISABLING CTL-BRK Reply to #5773 Pat, contrary to my last msg, I found that the dos function 44h (ioctl()) WILL allow totally unfiltered input/output from the keyboard ... including ^C, ^brk, ^@, and alt_03 (^s, ^p, etc. also pass infiltered). This solution looks simple, is simple, and allows us to AVOID interruypt handlers, replacements ... including the vexing intr09. I'll upload the file as: UNFILKEY.ARC into the Mahoney collection a little later. Have a look. Any comments? Grant ps / since code fragment is relatively short, i'll try uploading it here too. Grant (code follows) ... UNFILKEY.C /* UNFILKEY - unfiltered keyboard input/output for dos ... */ /* compiled and tested with MSC4.0 and TC1.5 */ /* ... will read ALL charcters keyed and display all BUT <esc> */ /* in MSC ( ... all including <esc> in TC) */ /* Characters read include the troublesome ones ... */ /* ^C ^brk ^@ ^S ^P */ /* ^C and ^brk are both read and written as 0x03 */ /* (F11 and F12 on the AT extended keyboard will not produce input) */ /* To get ALL characters in MSC, even the <esc>, the putch() function */ /* must be over-ridden with a set of BIOS intr 16h calls to write chars */ /* TC uses BIOS calls to do its writes for putch(). Thus ALL chars are */ /* written to the console */ /* To compile with MSC, use /DMSC on the commad line */ /* To compile with TC, nothing unusual required */ /* To run, enter UNFILTKY <cr> (or whatever you name it) */ /* enter characters .... terminate with the back-slash "\" character */ /* By Grant Ellsworth, Adelphi, MD (July, 1988) - NO copywright claimed, implied, or otherwise intended. Use this code fragment in any way you like */ #include <stdio.h> #include <dos.h> #include <conio.h> #ifdef MSC int ioctl(fhandle, cmd, dxptr) int fhandle; int cmd; int * dxptr; { union REGS regs; regs.x.ax = 0x4400 | (unsigned char) cmd; regs.x.bx = fhandle; regs.x.dx = *dxptr; return( intdos(®s,®s) ); } #undef getch #define getch() (unsigned char)bdos(7,0,0) /* redefine getch() to use dos service 07h */ /* instead of service 08h */ #endif #define FOLDCHAR 0x07b /* value to add to extended characters with */ /* scancodes of 0 - value chosen for displaying */ main() { unsigned ch; unsigned rdx; rdx = 0x00a1; ioctl(0, 1, &rdx); ioctl(1, 1, &rdx); ch = 0; while( '\\' != (unsigned char) ch ) { if( ioctl(0,6, &rdx) ){ ch = getch(); if (!ch) ch = FOLDCHAR+getch(); putch(ch); } } rdx = 0x0081; ioctl(1,0, &rdx); ioctl(1,1, &rdx); } >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5679 reply #13 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5788 07-25-88 05:59 (Read 95 times) from: PAT SHEA to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DISABLING CTL-BRK Reply to #5782 Grant... On my 'way in here', I stopped by and took a look @ NEW UPLOADS and saw NEWFILKEY.ARC and figgered it was yours... 'already have it! lemme play with it for a day, and I'll be back to you happyhacking !!! pat s. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5679 reply #14 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5681 07-16-88 19:50 (Read 91 times) from: DAVE CLAY to: PAUL SCHMIDT (Rcvd) subject: CODEVIEW? WHAT CODEVIEW? Paul, I agree that a second monitor or a second terminal is really necessary for the nasty debugging jobs. BTW a second monitor is very handy for other jobs, like a spreadsheet. Supercalc 4 supports 2 monitors very well. Just about any program works easyer with the directory displayed on one tube while I work on the other. I bought a second monitor for debugging (and to get my wife to quit bugging me) but found it very handy for all sorts of jobs. I suggest any serious programmer (particularly video work) invest in 2 monitors. Good luck, Dave Clay . --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5682 07-16-88 20:04 (Read 89 times) from: DAVE CLAY to: TOM PETERS (Rcvd) subject: MASM5.1 ERROR cc: GRANT ELLSWORTH Tom, MASM 5.1 has its troubles. It often lays down extra NOPs to prevent "phase errors" but it still bombs on some programs. The real winner was a Microsoft supplied subroutine (.ASM) that comes awith the FORTRAN package. Micorsoft's MASM 5.1 bombed on their own source. I have tryed to fake out the assembler by adding my own NOPs but MASM still added more. Microsoft is aware of the problems and may be some day (grin) they will fix it up. I bet it is more $$$ to upgrade to fix the old bugs. Unless you are super critical about space or run time, the extra NOPs will not hurt you. Good luck Dave Clay . --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5691 07-17-88 12:10 (Read 91 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: DAVE CLAY (Rcvd) subject: R: MASM5.1 ERROR Reply to #5682 cc: TOM PETERS Dave, Tom, MASM5.0 does not have the same problems ... looks like MS tried to fix something that wqasn't quite broke. I read the SLR's OPTASM does not croak out phase errors ... maybe it's time to switch. Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5682 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5702 07-18-88 11:11 (Read 87 times) from: TOM PETERS to: DAVE CLAY (Rcvd) subject: R: MASM5.1 ERROR Reply to #5682 cc: GRANT ELLSWORTH The extra NOPS won't hurt me, yes I know, but the stupid messages (that are NOT listed in the release notes!) will annoy me. We love ya, Microsoft! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5682 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5687 07-17-88 06:01 (Read 92 times) from: BRUCE SHERMAN to: ALL subject: INFOWORLD ON CLARION In what recent issue (date please) of Inforworld did the favorable review of Clarion appear? --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5688 07-17-88 08:07 (Read 91 times) from: NED REITER to: BRUCE SHERMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: INFOWORLD ON CLARION Reply to #5687 The review was part of a 7 data base comparison in the July 4, 1988 issue. -- Ned -- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5687 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5693 07-17-88 13:01 (Read 89 times) from: PAT SHEA to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: DISABLING CTRL-BRK Grant... CORRECTION to my earlier message <I just looked> !! The name of the file is CAROTC.ARC pats. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5694 07-17-88 14:26 (Read 90 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: PAT SHEA (Rcvd) subject: R: DISABLING CTRL-BRK Reply to #5693 Thanks, pat. I'll try to get it (CAROTC.ARC). I'd still like an explanation of what/why I'm getting the results that I do. Do you have any clue? Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5693 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5696 07-17-88 15:29 (Read 93 times) from: PAT SHEA to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DISABLING CTRL-BRK Reply to #5694 Grant... as I sed in my earlier mssg, I'm sort of jumping in at the tail end of your conversation. I really have not followed the development of the description of the problem. Also, my personal experience in trying to trap the <Ctrl-C/Break> has been pretty much limited to using signal() so that the user duz not end up in graphics mode when he wants to bail out of a graphics application w/o waiting for me to do my 'housekeeping' routines on exit(). If you happen to have one of the mssg numbers in the thread, I'd like to go back and read up to where you are at at this point in this witch hunt (really, probably for my own education since anything I've ever tried to do, Ive done w/ signal()) DAMN!!!! it's hot! pat s. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5693 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5714 07-19-88 00:36 (Read 83 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: PAT SHEA (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DISABLING CTRL-BRK Reply to #5696 Pat, signal() just don't cut this one. This thread is very recent. I started it on 7/16 in this conference. Just do a reverse scan from more recent msgs , if not the last one, to find where I started it. of specific interest, see my long response to Dale Ulmer. I think I have a solution which works ... and may nbeed combination with the MS solution in CAROTC.ARC for refinement. Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5693 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5715 07-19-88 00:44 (Read 83 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: PAT SHEA (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DISABLING CTRL-BRK Reply to #5696 Pat, on the HEAT. Here in the Washington DC area, it has been so hot and muggy that when we go outside, we are swimming in our own sweat within 3 minutes. You can swim in the air on 1st contact. I don't think it's any different there in Bethlehem PA --- you are not that far away. This, too, shall pass! Grant ps - let's pray for rain - especially for our buddies out there in the midwest and plains -- they need it worse than we do --- and we need it bad! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5693 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5717 07-19-88 05:18 (Read 82 times) from: PAT SHEA to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DISABLING CTRL-BRK Reply to #5715 ....to quote a firend from St. Louis... 'damned river is SO LOW.... the catfish are getting ticks !!' Around here, at this time of year, the corn is normally 'belt to low-chest' high --- this year, it's 'knee' high.... we ALL pray for rain. pat s. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5693 reply #5 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5695 07-17-88 14:31 (Read 93 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: JOHN KASTER (Rcvd) subject: REF. BOOK ON C/ASM John, a good ref. book I've been using to develop complex system level C and asm pgms is the MS press's Advanced MS DOS .... seemed to me to be the best of a lot of those books of that type. Grant --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5706 07-18-88 13:33 (Read 92 times) from: TOM PETERS to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: MASM 5.1 WARNING A5036 cc: DAVE CLAY cc: GRANT ELLSWORTH I fixed it: HEY MASM GURUS: Here's another attempt to figure out why my new install of MASM 5.1 does things MASM 5.0 did not. Ver 5.1 appears to feel compelled to add extra NOP's into my code when I do certain things, reporting warning A5036. I have a suspicion about this: Maybe I should move the data area I have embedded in my CS up above the reference to it. That way, it would be defined before it's referenced during pass 1. LATE BREAKING NEWS: I Moved my embedded data area so it's defined before it's referenced. The errors go away, all but one, which is because that one is defined in a .DATA area, after its referenced. Then I made it a byte cast like >Phil> suggested and the warning went away. Note that where duplicate code appears and one is commented out, the other one (in each of the four cases) produced the exact same warning message. = 0000 FALSE EQU 0 = FFFF TRUE EQU NOT FALSE ; "BUT WHAT IS TRUTH?" - PONTIUS PILATE ... 0267 PROCESS: ; MOV CS:DID_G_FLAG,BYTE PTR FALSE 0267 2E: C6 06 03B5 R 00 MOV CS:DID_G_FLAG,FALSE bit7x.ASM(489): warning A5036: Extra NOP inserted 90 026E 8A D8 MOV BL,AL ; SAVE LAST CHAr ; MOV CS:IGNORE_FLAG,BYTE PTR FALSE 0270 2E: C6 06 03AF R 00 MOV CS:IGNORE_FLAG,FALSE bit7x.ASM(492): warning A5036: Extra NOP inserted 90 ... ; MOV READSTAT,byte ptr 1 ; status 028B C6 06 0B8D R 01 90 MOV READSTAT,1 ; status bit7x.ASM(507): warning A5036: Extra NOP inserted ; note: I changed this to MOV BYTE PTR READSTAT,1 and this warning ; went away- Thanks, >Phil>. ... ; MOV CS:DID_G_FLAG,BYTE PTR TRUE 02AC 2E: C6 06 03B5 R FF MOV CS:DID_G_FLAG,TRUE bit7x.ASM(531): warning A5036: Extra NOP inserted 90 ... .CODE ; CS EMBDEDDED DATA AREA: 03AF 00 IGNORE_FLAG DB FALSE 03B0 00 Gflag db FALSE 03B5 00 DID_G_FLAG DB FALSE So, I guess the way to keep this from happening, if it bothers one, is either to define things before they are referenced, or, use type casting in the way suggested by Phil Katz. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5713 07-19-88 00:30 (Read 83 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: TOM PETERS (Rcvd) subject: R: MASM 5.1 WARNING A503 Reply to #5706 Oh, the gyrational exercises MS puts us through to avoid those darn phase errors ... BOO! (I think it's time to switch!) Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5706 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5707 07-18-88 17:14 (Read 92 times) from: CHRIS KLANN to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: C <=> ASM FUNC Phil: I've been playing around with a C <=> ASM program and unfortunatly, my minimal ASM knowledge (and C knowledge) seems to be inhibiting my progress. I'm starting out with a simple C program to see if I can get the ASM call to pass some info back. I'm using MASM 5.1 & MSC 5.1 & compiling under the small model. I'm getting the runtime error "STACK OVERFLOW", but something tells me that the program has coding problems, simply expanding the size of the stack at compile or link time isn't going to clean it up. Here's the C fragment: ------------------------------------------------------------ struct rtn_rec { int main; int minor; int data_len; } retcodes; . extern int request(int, int, char *, int, struct rtn_rec); . main() { /*<-- Blows up right after this...*/ int opcode; int trlen; char trreq[4096]; int start; struct rtn_rec retcodes; . request(1,trlen,trreq,start,retcodes); } ----------------------------------------------------------- ...and here's the .ASM listing... ----------------------------------------------------------- , .MODEL SMALL rparms STRUC rbp dw ? ;Saved frame pointer rret dw 2 DUP(?) ;Return address rrc dw ? ;Return code address rpos dw ? ;Starting position of data rbuf dw ? ;Buffer address rlen dw ? ;Statement length rreq db ? ;Request code rreq1 db ? ;Unused byte rparms ENDS , rctype STRUC rc1 dw ? rc2 dw ? dlen dw ? rctype ENDS , .CODE PUBLIC _request _request PROC ;Make a request of STF push bp ;Save frame pointer mov bp,sp ;Point to parms push bx ;Save the registers! push cx push dx push si push di pushf push es mov ah,1 ;Set translation flag mov al,[bp].rreq ;Set request code mov bx,[bp].rbuf ;Set buffer address mov cx,[bp].rlen ;Set statement length mov dx,4096 ;Set buffer length db 0CDh ;Hex equivilent for INT instruction intval db 060h ;INTVAL is the interrupt at which STF is ;installed mov di,[bp].rrc ;Get return code address mov [di].rc1,ax ;Store main return code mov [di].rc2,dx ;Store secondary return code mov [di].dlen,cx ;Store length of returned data mov di,[bp].rpos ;Point to the caller's data pointer sub bx,[bp].rbuf ;Set BX to offset into array inc bx ;Set BX to array index mov [di],bx ;Store the pointer pop es ;Restore registers popf pop di pop si pop dx pop cx pop bx pop bp ret ;Return _request ENDP END ----------------------------------------------------------- I've been combing the MASM & MSC manuals for a bit, trying different things, but still run into the STACK OVERFLOW msg. Any suggestions? As usual, thanks!...Chris..... --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5712 07-19-88 00:31 (Read 90 times) from: PHIL KATZ to: CHRIS KLANN (Rcvd) subject: R: C <=> ASM FUNC Reply to #5707 Chris, Well, there are a few things *wrong* with the code there, and a few things that are just frivolous. I'll start with the frivolity. 1) Only SI, DI, and BP need to be preserved. You don't need to push or pop ES, BX, CX, or DX, or do a pushf/popf. Take these instructions out, they have no useful purpose. 2) Now with the errors. You pass the struct rtn_rec retcodes to the subroutine. Be advised that this passes the VALUE of the structure onto the stack. From what I can tell, a struct rtn_rec is 6 bytes in size, so this parameter takes up six bytes on the stack. However, from the asm code, it looks like you just want to pass a POINTER to this structure to the function. Don't feel bad, this is a common mistake. What you want to pass is "&retcodes" rather than just "retcodes" itself. This is what is messing up your program and causing the overflow errors. Basically when you think you were assigning stuff into the structure, you were really clobbering random memory. 3) The STRUC rparms shows "rret dw 2 dup(?)". In the small model, the subroutine calls are NEAR, so the return address is only one dw, not two. "rret dw ?" is correct. >Phil> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5707 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5718 07-19-88 07:43 (Read 84 times) from: CHRIS KLANN to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C <=> ASM FUNC Reply to #5712 Phil: Thanks for your prompt reply. I knew I was probably doingsomething stupid - sometimes I just need pointing in the right direction. This little project is an adaptation of some code that IBM has provided for allowing a PC to talk to a S/36. Unfortunatly, the code was written to allow a PASCAL pgm to call it, so I'm trying to adapt it to C. I wouldn't think that the ASM program would be significantly different for a C program calling the subroutine. I'm going to digest your reply & hopefully get it to work. Thanks again! ...Chris..... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5707 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5720 07-19-88 10:25 (Read 95 times) from: CHRIS KLANN to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C <=> ASM FUNC Reply to #5712 Phil: Well, I've played around with your suggestions & continue to experience the STACK OVERFLOW error at runtime. I studied the C source and made the changes you recommended plus some others. Here are the current versions: ------------------------------------------------------------------- struct rtn_rec { int main; int minor; int data_len; }; . extern int request(char, int, char *, int , struct rtn_rec *); . /* ^--- this should */ main() { /* pass a pointer, eh? */ char opcode; /* <- This is a byte, not a word */ int trlen; char trreq[4096]; int start; struct rtn_rec *retcodes; . request(1,trlen,trreq,start,retcodes); } ------------------------------------------------------------------- .MODEL SMALL rparms STRUC rbp dw ? ;Saved frame pointer rret dw ? ;Return address rrc dw ? ;Return code address rpos dw ? ;Starting position of data rbuf dw ? ;Buffer address rlen dw ? ;Statement length rreq db ? ;Request code rreq1 db ? ;Unused byte rparms ENDS , rctype STRUC rc1 dw ? rc2 dw ? dlen dw ? rctype ENDS , .CODE PUBLIC _request _request PROC ;Make a request of STF push bp ;Save frame pointer mov bp,sp ;Point to parms push si push di mov ah,1 ;Set translation flag mov al,[bp].rreq ;Set request code mov bx,[bp].rbuf ;Set buffer address mov cx,[bp].rlen ;Set statement length mov dx,4096 ;Set buffer length db 0CDh ;Hex equivilent for INT instruction intval db 060h ;INTVAL is the interrupt at which STF is ;installed mov di,[bp].rrc ;Get return code address mov [di].rc1,ax ;Store main return code mov [di].rc2,dx ;Store secondary return code mov [di].dlen,cx ;Store length of returned data mov di,[bp].rpos ;Point to the caller's data pointer sub bx,[bp].rbuf ;Set BX to offset into array inc bx ;Set BX to array index mov [di],bx ;Store the pointer pop di pop si pop bp ret ;Return _request ENDP END ------------------------------------------------------------------- ...I tried to compile the C source, only changing the request() call for retcodes to &retcodes and got a compiler error, so I figured I'd just define it as a pointer & use it that way in the call (I hope that made sense). I guess I'm also wondering why I really need the rbp, rret & rreq1 definitions in the ASM struct definition -- I don't see where they're getting used (I tried getting rid of them & relinking but still got the STACK OVERFLOW error). This one's really got me stumped. ...Chris..... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5707 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5723 07-19-88 18:20 (Read 89 times) from: CHARLES PERRIN to: CHRIS KLANN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C <=> ASM FUNC Reply to #5720 I think you need to increase the default stack allocation in order to run that.... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5707 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5725 07-19-88 19:37 (Read 87 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: CHRIS KLANN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C <=> ASM FUNC Reply to #5720 Chris, 'scuse me for buttin' in ... I noticed something I stumbled over before I threw up my hands over MSC ... The trreq variable needs to be passed to the subroutine explicitly by adress. I'm going to capture your asm pgm. Something bugs me, but I'll lose connection if i try to daig on-line. In your c pgm ,,, I think you have to ....] request (1,trlen, &trreq ....) Remember that in C programs, parameters are always passed by value. You can only control how that value is interpretted. Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5707 reply #5 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5726 07-19-88 20:16 (Read 88 times) from: PHIL KATZ to: CHRIS KLANN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C <=> ASM FUNC Reply to #5720 Chris, >>...I tried to compile the C source, only changing the request() call >>for retcodes to &retcodes and got a compiler error, so I figured I'd >>just define it as a pointer & use it that way in the call (I hope >>that made sense). No, that won't work. When you are passing this pointer, what does it point to?? It's uninitialized! When the asm routine assigns data to *retcode, it's still storing it in random memory. You have the function prototype declared correctly, but you have to declare a structure, not a pointer to a structure, in the routine, and pass the address of the structure with the & operator. Then the routine will receive the *address* of this *structure*, whose space is allocated locally in main(). By the way, if you don't want to declare rret1 or whatever, just declare rret to be a dw and not a db, and then use the "byte ptr" operator to move the low byte of the value. For example: mov al,byte ptr [bp].rret The other ones such as the space for BP and the return address you pretty much have to do. >Phil> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5707 reply #6 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5727 07-19-88 20:23 (Read 89 times) from: CHRIS KLANN to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C <=> ASM FUNC Reply to #5726 cc: CHARLES PERRIN cc: GRANT ELLSWORTH Phil: I'm going to digest your reply again & get back...thanks...Chris.... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5707 reply #7 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5729 07-19-88 20:23 (Read 92 times) from: PHIL KATZ to: CHRIS KLANN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C <=> ASM FUNC Reply to #5720 Chris, Another probelm with that code is that trlen and start are uninitialized. The asm routine reads start (rpos) as a pointer, and stores a value at the address pointer to by *rpos. Should start be passed by address? Do you have the original asm routine and the Pascal code that was designed to call it? >Phil> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5707 reply #8 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5732 07-19-88 20:33 (Read 85 times) from: CHRIS KLANN to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C <=> ASM FUNC Reply to #5729 Phil: I do have the Pascal & Asm code - I will enter it & upload it in the Mahoney collection as S36EXMPL.ARC...hopefully tonight...Chris.... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5707 reply #9 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5738 07-20-88 09:55 (Read 92 times) from: CHRIS KLANN to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C <=> ASM FUNC Reply to #5729 Phil: I'm getting kinda confused here... after reading your latest messages & looking at the ASM code, it seems that the ASM code *is* expecting addresses to be passed & updates the original variables in memory, so the C source should be passing the stuff as addresses, not values. The problem is, when I compile the C source for passing addresses, I get compile errors & warnings, al la: C>cl -c -AS -Zi -F 5120 ..\stfcall.c Microsoft (R) C Optimizing Compiler Version 5.10 Copyright (c) Microsoft Corp 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988. All rights reserved. ..\stfcall.c ..\stfcall.c(16) : warning C4047: 'argument' : different levels of indirection ..\stfcall.c(16) : warning C4024: 'request' : different types : parameter 2 ..\stfcall.c(16) : warning C4047: 'argument' : different levels of indirection ..\stfcall.c(16) : warning C4024: 'request' : different types : parameter 4 ..\stfcall.c(16) : error C2115: 'argument' : incompatible types ..\stfcall.c(16) : warning C4024: 'request' : different types : parameter 5 (..sorry about the wrap-around) these are the result of compiling this source: struct rtn_rec { int main; int minor; int data_len; }; . extern void request(char, int, char *, int, struct rtn_rec); char trreq[4096]; . main() { char opcode; int trlen; int start; struct rtn_rec retcodes; . request(1,&trlen,trreq,&start,&retcodes); } What the heck's wrong with trying to pass these addresses - I guess I don't understand what the compiler means by "incompatible types" & "different types". >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5707 reply #10 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5747 07-20-88 19:14 (Read 97 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: CHRIS KLANN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C <=> ASM FUNC Reply to #5738 Chris, now I'm as confused as you must be .... but I did notice that 2 things seem to b out of whack in your most recent exercise ... 1. trlen and start are passed by address in your call to request() while you've declared the prototype hdr to look for call by value .... Make actual call to request() consistent with the prototype definition (whichever way you do it) 2. What are you doing to address the problem Charles P. and Phil K. identified with respect to stack size? Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5707 reply #11 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5749 07-20-88 20:10 (Read 100 times) from: CHRIS KLANN to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C <=> ASM FUNC Reply to #5747 Grant: Thanks for your reply(s)...to correct the stack size problem, I've placed the character array 'trreq' outside the main() area *and* added the /F operator in my compile, specifying 5120 bytes for the stack. Ummm, with respect to the trlen & start variables - I guess *I'm* kinda confused as to how the prototype should be set up...seems that Phil mentioned that the *prototype* is set up correctly (msg 5726, I believe) - ...oh, but wait a minute, I think that was b/4 I started to think about using addresses for the int's. Well, I'll keep on plugging away at this 'till I understand...aina hey?...Chris..... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5707 reply #12 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5751 07-20-88 20:58 (Read 100 times) from: CHRIS KLANN to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C <=> ASM FUNC Reply to #5747 cc: PHIL KATZ cc: CHARLES PERRIN Grant: Well, I got a little farther with your suggestion/question/recommendation...here's the *latest* code that compiles cleanly: =>struct rtn_rec { => int main; => int minor; => int data_len; =>}; =>. =>extern void request(char, int *, char *, int *, struct rtn_rec *); =>char trreq[4096]; =>. =>main() { => char opcode; => int trlen; => int start; => struct rtn_rec retcodes; =>. => request(1,&trlen,trreq,&start,&retcodes); =>} ...(sigh)...maybe some day I'll understand pointers/address passing on an *intuitive* level... Now I have to figger out why the ASM call is creahing on me. Thank you Grant, Charles & Phil! (I'm sure I'll have more questions, though)...Chris..... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5707 reply #13 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5709 07-18-88 20:14 (Read 83 times) from: TOM FELLER to: ALL subject: MS LINK We had a problem linking today. MS link version 3.65 crashed! We called Microsoft and they told us to try version 5.01.21. It worked! We received that version with our OS/2 developers kit. We also received MSC version 5.5 and MASM version 5.5. I think it should have been version 5.05 for both because we got version 5.1 later. That linker version number looks a little too long. But, that is the version number Microsoft gave over the phone! I guess 5.01.21.01.02 is next! Holy Microsoft. So if your linker crashes try version 5.01.21 if you have it. -Tom Feller- --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5719 07-19-88 09:03 (Read 86 times) from: GARY SCHULTZ to: VICTOR LOBERGER (Rcvd) subject: HI Hi Victor, I just wanted to drop you a note re: Arev. I saw Bob M. last night with it and he said he was taking it to you. There is a new version out which has dialog and response windows (a form of the collector windows). It also implements the Query functions from windows, and you can tie a standard Rlist report to a window. The query function is probably the most useful for the application at Garfield. In the key prompt, you press a \ and it converts your data entry window to a Query window. You then put in the operators =>< in the field you want the search to be performed on. For instance, you get into query mode and want every one named Schultz by their first name, by zip code. You put the word 'by' in the zip field and in the first.name field, and Schultz in the last name field press F9 and the selection process first flies through an exsisting Btree index then through the data itself. It creates a select list of records and put the first one in the window. It creates a ring too: Alt-f to go forward ALt-b to go back. It also has a form of Basic as its proprietary language. It really is powerful. If you would like, I will pop over and show you my system. It took me a while to cement the structures into my brain, but I am begining to see the light on system design. I *know* that you can do the design. Who knows? maybe you can program for others too.? Or put it in the AREV Programs Catalog? Brookfield Assembly bought a canned program in old Revelation. (about $5000.00). Think about it.... Let me know, __ __ __ == /_//_// /_/== ___/ ____/ --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5730 07-19-88 20:28 (Read 93 times) from: PHIL KATZ to: CHRIS KLANN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C <=> ASM FUNC Reply to #5727 Chris, Charles hit it on the head! Besides the fact that the routine won't work, declaring a 4096 stack-based (local) variable should overflow the stack. The default stack size is 2048! The easiest thing to do would be to declare the array of 4096 items outside of main(), so it is statically allocated. >Phil> --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5765 07-22-88 18:11 (Read 100 times) from: CHRIS KLANN to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C <=> ASM FUNC Reply to #5730 cc: GRANT ELLSWORTH cc: CHARLES PERRIN Phil (et al): Thanks for your help on the C <=> ASM coding problem. After dinkin' around a little bit (& lot's of use of Codeview), I've got the situation rectified. Here's some of the problems I ran into: . 1. I increased the stack size @ compile time (thanks Charles). . 2. I changed the prototype for the structure to allow address passing. . 3. I reversed the order of the parameters passed to the .ASM routine - I was translating from an example written in Pascal, where the parameters are listed "forwards". . Here's the final C call: ------------------------------------------------------ struct rtn_rec { int main; int minor; int data_len; }; . extern void request(struct rtn_rec *, int, char *, int, char); extern int stffind(); char trreq[4096]; . main() { char opcode; int trlen; int start; int sub; struct rtn_rec retcodes; . if(stffind()) printf("Yeah...STF was found\n"); else { printf("Boo...STF wasn't found\n"); exit(-1); } . strcpy(trreq,"SOMETHING"); trlen=strlen(trreq); opcode=0x01; request(&retcodes,start,trreq,trlen,opcode); ------------------------------------------------------- So, what's the conclusion? Ummm...subscribe to EXEC-PC - where there's lot's of patient, friendly folks! Thanks again! ...Chris..... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5730 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5767 07-22-88 20:43 (Read 96 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: CHRIS KLANN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C <=> ASM FUNC Reply to #5765 Chris, glad to see you solved your problem .... I reviewed your code and noticed the "reverse order" parameter list. You can declare that the routine will expect PASCAL ordering and register restoration if you code .... extern int pascal stffind( .......) .... in some compilers (MSC, TC, both support the construct). I guess one real lesson (other than "Bring your nightmares to EXECPC...") is that there is a critical difference between Call-by-value, and Call-by- Name (address/ptr). I remember having a difficult time teaching this to some Jr. Programmers I had on my staff a few years ago. It's a messy one to get ---- and is SO clear once you see it that you wonder how you could have possibly missed the point ..... Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5730 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5769 07-22-88 22:53 (Read 100 times) from: CHRIS KLANN to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C <=> ASM FUNC Reply to #5767 Grant: I find getting my hands (extremely) dirty in the code helps to make things clear...Chris..... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5730 reply #3 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5739 07-20-88 10:57 (Read 91 times) from: TOM PETERS to: ALL subject: HELP: FANCY KEYBOARD cc: PHIL KATZ cc: GRANT ELLSWORTH Anybody have an idea? I have a computer that won't work with certain keyboards- those with extra arrow keys & such. I used KEYS310 to determine that the keyboard sends an E0 scan code before the key down and another E0 before the key up codes. Just for grins I butchered the code below to test for E0 codes and yank them out, replacing them with nulls. Lo! It worketh. Before, the extra arrow keys would beep twice, but perform their function. Now they just perform their function. Question is: Is there someting better I should be doing rather than EXTENDED: MOV AH,0 and then jumping to KBCLR? Will sending a null always result in no bad effects? Is there a better way of doing this? ; Special keyboard driver for Function Keys 11 and 12 ; KEYF11 equ 057h KEYF12 equ 058h EXTEND EQU 0E0H ; ADDED- TMP F11 equ 085h F12 equ 086h ALT equ 008h CTL equ 004h SHFT equ 003h ;-- Bios fixed memory layout ; bios segment at 040h org 017h bstate db ? org 01Ah bhead dw ? btail dw ? org 080h btop dw ? bend dw ? bios ends ;-- driver code ; code segment org 0100h assume cs:code start label far jmp install even old9vec dw 2 dup (?) ;-- Keyboard interrupt handler ; kbint proc far push ax in al,60h ; get keyboard character cmp al,KEYF11 je kbf11 cmp al,KEYF12 je kbf12 CMP AL,EXTEND ; ADDED- TMP JE EXTENDED ; ADDED- TMP pop ax jmp dword ptr old9vec ; Not special-- handle with BIOS ;-- map to correct character ; F11 -> 85h F12 -> 86h ; Shf F11 -> 87h Shf F12 -> 88h ; Ctl F11 -> 89h Ctl F12 -> 8Ah ; Alt F11 -> 8Bh Alt F12 -> 8Ch ; kbf11: mov ah,F11 jmp short kbclr kbf12: mov ah,F12 jmp short kbclr EXTENDED: MOV AH,0 ; ADDED- TMP jmp short kbclr ; ADDED- TMP ;-- clear keyboard int kbclr: in al,61h or al,80h out 61h,al and al,7Fh out 61h,al mov al,20h out 20h,al ; eoi ;-- Adjust for keyboard state push bx push ds mov bx,bios mov ds,bx assume ds:bios mov al,bstate test al,ALT jne kbalt test al,CTL jne kbctl test al,SHFT jne kbshft jmp short kbput kbalt: add ah,2 kbctl: add ah,2 kbshft: add ah,2 ;-- stuff char into buffer ; kbput: mov bx,btail add bx,2 cmp bx,bend ; wrap around ? jne kb20 mov bx,btop kb20: cmp bx,bhead ; tail == end ? je kb30 ; no room xchg btail,bx xor al,al mov [bx],ax kb30: pop ds pop bx pop ax iret kbint endp hello db 13,10,'Keyboard Interrupt Driver Rev 1.0',13,10 db 'Tom''s special version, replaces E0 with 00',13,10,'$' assume ds:code install proc near mov dx,offset hello mov ah,9 int 21h mov ax,3509h ; get current interrupt vector int 21h mov old9vec,bx mov old9vec[2],es mov ax,2509h ; set new interrupt vector mov dx,offset kbint int 21h mov dx,offset hello int 27h install endp code ends end start --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5746 07-20-88 18:54 (Read 90 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: TOM PETERS (Rcvd) subject: R: HELP: FANCY KEYBOARD Reply to #5739 Tom, I'll download your msg and have a closer look. Off the top, I just dunno. The further I get into this (expletive deleted) keyboard interface, the less I like it ... to darn hard-wired in too many places. Just look at all the steps/routinies and lins of code necessary to get to a ctrl-brk and handle it as a normal character. Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5739 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5743 07-20-88 13:34 (Read 91 times) from: PAT BIESER to: ALL subject: DOS 3.3 AND CLIPPER Help!! I'm working with a Clipper Compiled program that needs to open about 12 .DBF files and about 30 .NTX files - for a total of 42 Files open at the same time. I wrote this program using DOS 3.3 which I understand allows up to 255 files open at the same time. The program needs to have this many open simultaneously due to many factors I don't want to get into. (Yes, I could redo the program to reduce open file needs, but the trade off would be a major loss of speed.) The problem is, the program runs fine on my AT at home, but does not run on a Novel Network Drive at the office. We are using Novell 2.0 and have recently upgrade to Novell 2.1. The stations run DOS 3.3. It does not run under either of these Novell versions. More specifically, it opens about 6 or 7 files and then give me a "error opening file" message. The config.sys is set to: Files=50 Buffers=50 FCBS 50,50 <- which works fine at home. The funny thing is, it runs fine on a local drive - even when I'm still logged into the network. Anyone have any idea what's going on. Thanks for your comments. Patrick --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5752 07-20-88 20:59 (Read 94 times) from: TOM FELLER to: PAT BIESER (Rcvd) subject: R: DOS 3.3 AND CLIPPER Reply to #5743 I have heard of a problem with DOS 3.3 and netware. I heard that DOS 3.3 has a bug that causes the problems. Microsoft did it again! I also heard that Novel has a patch for DOS 3.3. Talk to you Novel dealer. -Tom Feller- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5743 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5761 07-22-88 08:21 (Read 95 times) from: GEORGE KOFMAN to: PAT BIESER (Rcvd) subject: R: DOS 3.3 AND CLIPPER Reply to #5743 Pat, I've done a number of large Clipper Applications, and I've seen similar 'open error (4)', but never on a Novell Network. Well, I suspect it may be because I never ran my applications on a Novell Network. Anyway, try the following: SET CLIPPER=F100 (or 150, 200, etc.) in your autoexec on the workstation AND the server. Good luck. George M. Kofman. PS. Almost forgot: F100 stands for Files open=100. You can finthis info in the appendix. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5743 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5822 07-28-88 15:01 (Read 102 times) from: PAT BIESER to: GEORGE KOFMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DOS 3.3 AND CLIPPE Reply to #5761 Thanks George, I'll give it a try. Patrick >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5743 reply #3 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5744 07-20-88 14:20 (Read 96 times) from: KAREN LITTLE to: NED REITER (Rcvd) subject: MORE ON CLARION cc: STEVE SHATTUCK cc: TOM DUNLAVEY I'd like to know some more on Clarion . . . 1. Does it do graphs? 2. How easy is it to integrate text into a report? 3. Can graphics/pix be integrated into a report? 4. (I just read this about the new WordPerfect database) If fields are linked between files ... AND, say you have a field called Sam Spade. If you typed Sam Spade into a NEW entry, would all of his info come up automatically IF it had been entered PRIOR? (the review of WP called DataPerfect is in this week's InfoWorld) 5. If one of the files (related data bases) contained a list of key words could that list be run on one part of the screen so that the operator could scan for key word selection to for entry purposes? (I think you said yes, but am just checking again). 6. What type of programming CAN'T Clarion do? Karen --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5755 07-21-88 08:44 (Read 104 times) from: NED REITER to: KAREN LITTLE (Rcvd) subject: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #5744 Karen, 1. No, Clarion does not do graphs. At least not bit-mapped graphics, it only supports text windows so you could write a program to graph using the ascii graphics characters. . 2. I am not sure what you mean about integrating text into a report. If you just want hardwired text, you can put this anywhere on a screen or report. The reports support headers and footers, too. . 3. Clarion does not support graphics in reports. However, you could print to a file and process the report through a word processor. . 4. I do not quite understand the question. You can, of course, retrieve data from other files while entering data on a form or table screen. When you enter an existing key on a form screen, the corresponding record will be retrieved and the form filled in. . 5. Yes, you can specify a field as a table lookup and the program will display a window of values for the operator to chose from. The window can be popped up by the enter key on a blank or invalid entry, by a programmer specified hot key or automatically. . 6. Other than bit-mapped graphics, Clarion has the language elements to do anything you can do in any programming language. If the Clarion language doesn't support a particular function, such as async port access, there are Language Extension Modules (LEMs) available for many of these. LEMs can be written in assembler or C and linked with your programs if necessary, but the language has everything needed for the typical business application. . You might want to call Clarion Software and talk to the tech support people. I have found them to be very friendly and helpful, and if you explain that you are considering purchasing Clarion, they should answer any questions you have. . Good luck, -- Ned-- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5744 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5757 07-21-88 14:14 (Read 99 times) from: NED REITER to: KAREN LITTLE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #5756 I certainly would be interested in such a relationship. You have my phone number, so call me if I can be of any more help. Perhaps a small demonstration project is in order. -- Ned -- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5744 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5759 07-21-88 18:23 (Read 104 times) from: KAREN LITTLE to: NED REITER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #5757 Clarion has a 30% discount for schools ... still the price is pretty hefty. Karen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5744 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5762 07-22-88 09:18 (Read 103 times) from: NED REITER to: KAREN LITTLE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #5759 That puts it under $500. Quite competitive with other data base managers that give you much less. -- Ned -- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5744 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5851 08-03-88 22:36 (Read 93 times) from: KAREN LITTLE to: NED REITER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #5762 I now have Clarion in my possession! however, I cannot bring it up in color. There is a tinge of color (Blue) in one of the color boxes, but the rest is shads of gray ... I haven't been able to find a color-setup. Tomorrow night I am going to try to write my first application (thrill & anticipation) Karen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5744 reply #5 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5854 08-04-88 05:45 (Read 90 times) from: STEPHEN ROSS to: NED REITER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #5762 Ned, Just scanned your messages to Karen re: Clarion. Have you used Paradox at all? Can you compare the two? I'm using Paradox, slowly learning what programming (at least application development) is all about. Wondering if I should save my pennies and switch to Clarion. One specific question: Can you use Clarion as a data base without developing the application first? Just create a data base and start entering records, then manipulate (sort, select groups, etc.)? Thanks for answering. Steve >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5744 reply #6 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5922 08-10-88 21:50 (Read 82 times) from: JIM TOIGO to: KAREN LITTLE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #5851 Karen-- Congrats on your purchase of Clarion version 2. I think you'll love it. I have been using Clarion for about 2 years --- even in the dark ages prior to "Designer". I've had version 2 for about 2 months now and have completely rewritten several applications for my wife's business. They include a Wisconsin Payroll system, Accounts Receiveable System for a Title Insurance company, a Tickler system for memos. I am presently working on a 1099-S program to report gains on the sale of real estate to the IRS. Hope you have good luck with the product and if I can be of any help please drop a note. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5744 reply #7 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5925 08-10-88 23:12 (Read 86 times) from: KAREN LITTLE to: JIM TOIGO (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #5922 Jim, I have your name written down! As I don't have prior experience as a programmer, I have been spending about 1 - 2 hours a day studying the manual. I have 2 programs that I want to write stat. Here are my questions for the evening: I am getting confused between Key, Indexing and Sorting. I take it that a Key can be overridden by a sort. ... and you sort on an index. The Key is only used for immediate viewing. It would seem to me that a Key would slow things down. Also, if you wanted to select things within a range, you would have to sort it first, right? I am thinking about the organization found in FileExpress. Jim, you may be sorry you offered to help! (I hated the reshuffling in dBase III when adding or changing information within an indexed version. I am thinking that that is what the Key-business is in Clarion). eh? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5744 reply #8 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5985 08-13-88 23:12 (Read 95 times) from: JIM TOIGO to: KAREN LITTLE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #5925 Karen--- Keys are used in Clarion for screens or any application needing immediate access to a record or group of records (table screen). They are also used to maintain uniqueness for each record in a file. Index files are built only when needed for use in a year end report for example. The main difference you will notice in Clarion is that the index file will not be created or maintained until it is needed. My suggestion is, when in doubt use a key file. You will only notice a small improvement in response time by using an index Also the data base tip of the day, always provide at least one unique key for each file so that when you get outside of table selection screens created by designer, each record in the file can be uniquely identified. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5744 reply #9 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6012 08-16-88 10:07 (Read 109 times) from: NED REITER to: KAREN LITTLE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #5851 Congratulations, Karen, on your purchase of Clarion. Pardon this late reply, but I have been on vacation since 8/1. As for the color problem, try entering a MODE CO80 command before starting Clarion. Clarion uses the current display mode and will not display color if the display is in mono mode. This also applies to applications. Let me know how your application goes. Good luck, -- Ned -- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5744 reply #10 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6013 08-16-88 10:14 (Read 108 times) from: NED REITER to: STEPHEN ROSS (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #5854 Steve, pardon this late reply but I have been on vacation since 8/1. No, I have not used Paradox so cannot compare. Clarion Version 2 is a complete application development system. The databases are not available except through the application programs. However, with the designer, you can get a rather complex application without writing any code whatsoever. The forms and reports are designed right on the screen and the Designer generates the source code. If you want to do something that the Designer will not, you can write a module in the Clarion language and have the Designer include it in the source program. Clarion has to be one of the fastest ways to bring up an application without coding that I have seen. The prototype becomes the application almost without trying. . BTW, I saw an ad here on Exec-PC where someone was selling an unopened Clarion Ver. 2 for a very good price (under $500, if I recall). Check the want ads for the last week or two. Clarion also now include the translator to create .EXE files for your applications. Please feel free to ask questions of Karen or me if you get into Clarion. -- Ned -- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5744 reply #11 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6015 08-16-88 15:33 (Read 111 times) from: KAREN LITTLE to: NED REITER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #6012 Ned, welcome back...you were probably on your boat, right? Clarion is --> FANTASTIC <-- I wrote my first real .EXE file this Sunday and it is only up from here. I started some msg's on the subject in Writers where we have a little more space to communicate. Oh yes, Phil Katz resolved my color problems. He flipped a switch behind the monitor. Karen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5744 reply #12 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6017 08-17-88 09:24 (Read 103 times) from: NED REITER to: KAREN LITTLE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #6015 Yes, I was on a 44 foot trawler for two weeks. Great trip, but I could use another two weeks of it! Glad you solved your color problem. I suppose I will have to join the writers conference to keep up with your Clarion adventure. -- Ned -- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5744 reply #13 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6019 08-17-88 17:50 (Read 103 times) from: KAREN LITTLE to: NED REITER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #6017 Ned, on August 31 I will be speaking on "Personal Programming: non-programmers strike back!" during which time I will be talking about office organization utilizing el cheap o FileExpress or Clarion. So...I have to become an expert by that time (!) (spoken like a true consultant, eh?) It's toooooo hot for me to do much work at home, I think, until maybe Sunday or next Monday when I spend more time at the office. So, next week be prepared to spend mucho time over in Writers. 44 foot trawler is impressive! Karen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5744 reply #14 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6022 08-18-88 08:10 (Read 103 times) from: STEPHEN ROSS to: NED REITER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #6013 Ned, Thanks for the reply re: Clarion. (I've only been on a little now and then for a couple of weeks myself so didn't miss your reply -- hope you had a good vacation.) I'm still a real novice when it comes to designing an application. First a create a database, then figure out what I want to do with it, then add a little something else, etc., till I have something that does what I want to do. Paradox seems perfect for it. Having to write the application from scratch ... I thik I'll wait a while. If I decide iw ant to get into application development for hire, which as of now I don't, I think I'll stick with paradox. I know it, it does most of what I want it to do easily. (And figuring out the rest is always a challenge I seem to enjoy. Must be a masochist.) Thanks again, Steve >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5744 reply #15 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6023 08-18-88 08:58 (Read 109 times) from: NED REITER to: KAREN LITTLE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #6019 I don't think that Clarion is a good choice for the average non-programmer. You still have to understand the concepts of database design to make good use of the Designer. File Express is a good choice for simple flat file applications, however. I use it for most applications myself. But with Clarion, a good programmer can work with the user and develop a prototype application very quickly, and when everyone is happy, the application is done as soon as he runs the translator. BTW, Clarion is going to release a standalone version of Filer which can be distributed with object code to solve the problem of database format changes in the field. I noticed that you were on the Clarion BBS for a few minutes. I suggest that you capture the message base and read it offline. Some very good information is contained in there that isn't in the manuals. Also, there are some very good utilities and LEMs in the file area, as well as some sample .APP files. I have a Procomm+ Aspect script for the Clarion BBS to log on and capture new messages. If you would like it, let me know. I was on the lake last night when the front came through, running our Wednesday nite race. Really caused some havoc for awhile, but it's nice to be cool again. My air conditioner is off for the first time since Saturday. I have joined the writers conference. You folks sure are wordy, but I will monitor the Clarion discussions and help where I can. -- Ned -- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5744 reply #16 Message error: Summary file and msg file inconsistent at PRG-2397 # 2603 deleted Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5748 07-20-88 19:33 (Read 99 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: ALL subject: ANOTHER NASTY TC BUG A nasty tC bug which can byte hard!!! If you have a #pragma inline ... in your c module, but have no inline asm directives, you can compile the module in the integrated environment with no error cited .... and then you can pray. In some cases (not all), tc will generate code with incorrect jmp instructions ... in my case, 2 subroutines coded before the main() section were generated incorrectly and my computer went off into a most strange limbo and lockup when I executed the pgm. Close examination with the debug(DEBUG, plain) and a tcc asm listing, showed that the JMPs were off by 4 bytes in the 2 routines. I then pulled the forgotten #pragma inline statement and all was ok again. I wish borland would clean up its act and make the TC system at leastas reliable as the TP system. (sigh) Grant (ps: to Charles Perrin, OK , I've heard (read) your MS directed comments before ... and need not be given the crow now .... at least there was a work-around which was reasonable - fix is not worth another $200) --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5754 07-20-88 21:43 (Read 98 times) from: DALE ULMER to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: ANOTHER NASTY TC BUG Reply to #5748 In my opinion, using the integrated environment in any compiler is a foolhardy act. Every one that I've seen contains a poor excuse for a text editor and a lot of ways to get into trouble while remaining perfectly innocent. When I was younger I knew some girls like that, but I don't think any of them included a text editor. That last sentence may be beside the point. Seriously, use a decent editor and the command line compiler. QEDIT, available here, is several degrees of magnitude beyond any integrated environment. I use Brief, which is a bit pricey, but arguably the best of the commercial lot. It makes my work easier, making me more productive. That makes it worth its price. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5748 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5766 07-22-88 20:33 (Read 95 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: DALE ULMER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: ANOTHER NASTY TC B Reply to #5754 > ... using the integrated environment in any compiler is a foolhardy act! Dale, Please elaborate. While I must agree that there are better editors than the one supplied with Borland's TC, I do find the integrated environment very useful and convenient for fixing keystroke based errors during compilation (or other oversights). The double window TC integrated environment provides allows me to look at compiler error msgs and code at the same time - regardless of how many modules I tried to compile in one crack - and it allows me to make fixes across all. The editor has its shortcoming .. and I use a home-grown multi-window editor when I am building a lot of original code or making a lot of global changes. Otherwise, the tC integrated environment works fine, in MOST instances, for me. However, I would agree that DEBUGGING in any compiler's integrated environment is asking for lost code. Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5748 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5775 07-24-88 10:23 (Read 95 times) from: DALE ULMER to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: ANOTHER NASTY TC B Reply to #5766 Much of my work at present involves educational computer controlled interactive video. Unfortunately, "authoring systems" have become an important part of this pursuit. For those unfamiliar with the term, an authoring system is a limited, specialized programing language, often set in an integrated environment. These systems came about because educators (it is considered rude to refer to these people as "teachers") didn't want to go to the trouble of learning programming languages. Some sharp operators decided to relieve them of their fears along with large sums of money by supplying them with authoring systems instead. Just as "educator" sounds more important than "teacher", "authoring system" is more impressive and considerably less nerdy than "programming language". The integrated environment is a close relative of the authoring system. The concept arises from the idea that the user is inept, not to be trusted doing things for himself. It is implemented by deciding in advance how the user will do things. Clearly, not all (or even many) future needs can be anticipated, so what the user is able to accomplish must be limited by what's built into the environment. One should not be surprised to discover surprises in such surroundings when doing things that may be a bit off the main highway. Pascal, with its fascist approach to programming, is fairly well matched with integrated environments. The relative free spirit, C, is not. The programmer who wants to control his efforts rather than having things the other way around does well in choosing C. Having done so, giving up any part of what one has gained to indulge one's laziness strikes me as being a bad bargain. Most of the better editors (Brief, VEDIT, etc.) give free access to compilation and the inevitable resultant error messages. They can be configured to behave precisely as the user wants them to. In other words, it's possible to have the convenience without the limitations. I'll bet you've learned not to ask me to elaborate again. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5748 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5781 07-24-88 22:10 (Read 97 times) from: TOM FELLER to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: ANOTHER NASTY TC B Reply to #5766 I agree, I like the integrated environment for fast syntax error fixing. But, I use VEDIT PLUS for my real work. I had used Wordstar before so using the environment was easy. But, after useing VEDIT, I would prefer not to use the environment for large changes. Everyone should try the VEDIT demo someone uploaded. -Tom Feller- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5748 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5783 07-24-88 23:50 (Read 99 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: DALE ULMER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: ANOTHER NASTY TC B Reply to #5775 Dale, au contraire! Your elaboration was more interesting than you may expect. An so, if I want to spend the $$$ on the editor, many of the advantages of the integrated environment come along ... I don't want to or need to spend the $$$ right now. But your suggestion is a good one. And , if PASCAL is "FASCIST" , what is COBOL? (I need a more villifying term than "fascist" for that one ) Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5748 reply #5 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5785 07-24-88 23:53 (Read 98 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: ANOTHER NASTY TC B Reply to #5781 Tom, I agree with your approach. And do something like it myself with a grown editor based on borland's microstar. But, wqith all this rave about VEDIT, I'll have to look into it. Thx, Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5748 reply #6 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5789 07-25-88 08:51 (Read 101 times) from: DALE ULMER to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: ANOTHER NASTY TC B Reply to #5783 In describing Pascal as a fascist language, my intention was not to deprecate it. Mussolini built fascism around the idea that people are a natural resource owned by the state, and as such the state has complete responsibility for them, including the responsibility of telling them what they may or may not do. The fact that fascism, like other totalitarian systems, quickly becomes corrupt is not relevant to my metaphor. Wirth feels a similar responsibility toward programmers. Remember that his purpose in designing Pascal was to use it to teach structured programming. He accomplished that purpose beautifully. Wirth is a benevolent dictator. COBOL, on the other hand, was designed to force creative people to use clumsy, verbose notation so their work might be inspected by small minded managerial types. Its success in the marketplace not withstanding, it deserves as much scorn as can be heaped upon it. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5748 reply #7 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5791 07-25-88 18:29 (Read 102 times) from: CHARLES PERRIN to: DALE ULMER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: ANOTHER NASTY TC B Reply to #5789 COBOL's success in the market place is totally because the Feds required it be supported on all the computers they bought (so that they could port software easily). >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5748 reply #8 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5800 07-25-88 20:36 (Read 109 times) from: DALE ULMER to: CHARLES PERRIN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: ANOTHER NASTY TC B Reply to #5791 That's right. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5748 reply #9 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5819 07-27-88 22:38 (Read 112 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: DALE ULMER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: ANOTHER NASTY TC B Reply to #5789 Dale, you make some interesting, if not satirical, points. I do , however, note that COBOL was designed to allow ineducable idiots who could barely write simple english to pretend they were writing real programs for managment which believed that self-teaching was an inherent contradiction and would cost interminably more than the idiot code was worth. Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5748 reply #10 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5833 07-30-88 13:34 (Read 106 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: CHARLES PERRIN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: ANOTHER NASTY TC B Reply to #5791 Charles, Here are a few tidbits to add to your comments on COBOL and the hapless Feds ..... 1. Portability of COBOL ..... In the period 1968-1972, I was involed in trying to build a cobol based system to port from such similar hardware as IBM360 and RCA Spectra70s. The cobol would not port very well ... it took less time to jjust port object decks of non-svc and i/o modules than it did to port the source. And when we tried to port the COBOL code from IBM360 to some non-byted based or non 32-bit word maichines (such as B6600, Univac 1108), it was 3 or 4 times harder than porting C across different architectures today. On an earlier occaision, I had to help convert some COBOL from 1401 to a 7094 --- that dog just didn't hunt. The smoothest easiest port of COBOL from one machine to another which I experienced was in 1982-3 when I ported a large COBOL system from IBM 370 DOS/VSE to VAX VMS --- by that time, the varients of the COBOLS seemed to converge for 32 bit byte machines --- but, heaven help us when large chunks of functionality depended on the EBCDIC collating sequence instead of ASCII --- major re-work required. So much for COBOL's vaunted portability ... somewhat portable, but SO unreasonably umbersome to work with --- right now, I'd rather go back to my 1st "profession" (driving trucks, if my back could take the weight handling) rather than set my eyes on another COBOL source mess. 2. Feds and commitment to COBOL for portability ... In the period when the Feds made their big push for using COBOL throughout the govt, portability was not easy or cost effective for a quick port (see above). But,, at the Federal Agency where I worked back then, management felt that training in COBOL across all machines was cost effective. So, when IBM wash strongly pushing PL/I (circa 1965???), they told the agency that they should start extensive training in PL/I since IBM was intending to drop support for COBOL at some time in the near future. So the story goes, the agency management told IBM to come pick up the recently acquired (dozen or so) 360 series computers in 10 days - they would be boxed up and on the loading dock on such-and-such a date. IBM came back in 5 days saying that the "soft decisdion" to discontinue COBOL support was "shelved". The agency unpacked the 360s and returned them to the computer room floor. The feds based their Cobol commitment, in part, on the fact that medio- cre clerks could learn it more easily and could maintain existing programs. The feds observed, with some justice, that the private sector was getting the "real talent" ... and the feds had to have some programming tool that their staff could do some work with. Ergo, COBOL!!!! And that cumbersome monster has been the bane of the DP profession ever since. Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5748 reply #11 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5753 07-20-88 21:16 (Read 100 times) from: DAVE CLAY to: ALL subject: PROGRAMMING ENGINEER JOB PROGRAMMER - ENGINEER Job opportunity The company I work for is interested in hiring a programmer who knows assembly language and hardware interface programming. If interested, leave me private EMAIL and I will put you in touch with the correct people. Desired is an experienced BSEE or ECE. Dave Clay --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5768 07-22-88 22:17 (Read 101 times) from: TOM SWENSON to: LARRY EDWARDS subject: MIX POWER-C Larry, did you ever find out any info about the mix C compiler. I'm looking into purchasing a c compiler soon and am seriously considering this one. I especially like the idea of being able to buy the function library source code for $10.00. My greatest concern is whether or not it is compatible and can be linked to clipper. Any help would be appreciated. ====== Tom Swenson ===== --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5776 07-24-88 10:23 (Read 96 times) from: THOMAS ZERUCHA to: TOM SWENSON (Rcvd) subject: R: MIX POWER-C Reply to #5768 I have the compiler, the source libraries, and the debugger (for $50 total) and I like it and use it for all my general programming tasks. I think that it is better than Quick C especially if you have a good editor to use with it (since it is not an environment). The problems are that you are limited to the Medium model of segmentation (with hugemalloc and farmalloc calls to fill in the gaps). It also doesn't use Microsoft compatible object modules, though it can convert medium/far .obj's into their format, so linking with other products may be a problem. But for my purposes, it is great, especially the debugger which is very easy to use and has enough options to track nearly anything down and it works with graphics (if you have that enabled). >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5768 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5802 07-26-88 05:54 (Read 107 times) from: TOM SWENSON to: THOMAS ZERUCHA (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MIX POWER-C Reply to #5776 Tom, I just ordered the power c compiler. After reading a review in the Computer Shopper, and making a call to Nantucket, I found out that I need a microsoft C compatible compiler. I then went to the article in the computer shopper and it said that it was very compatible with microsoft c and turbo c. So... I just went ahead and ordered it. I sounds like the debugger and the manual/tutorial may be worth it anyway, even if I can't compile to a clipper compatible object module. Maybe if I write something good I can find someone with microsoft c or turbo c who will compile it for me, if it turns out to not be compatible. Thanks for the reply... tom >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5768 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5817 07-26-88 23:24 (Read 111 times) from: THOMAS ZERUCHA to: TOM SWENSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MIX POWER-C Reply to #5802 The libraries are a superset of both Turbo C and MS C, so as long as there are no segmentation problems (i.e. FAR or HUGE model compiles), Power C shoudl digest anything MSC or Turbo C would. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5768 reply #3 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5771 07-23-88 20:06 (Read 94 times) from: JACK BROWN to: ALL subject: ATT V&H TABLES FOR IBM I would like to know where I can obtain the complete set of ATT'S V&H tables. If you can help me please leave me a private message. Thank you ........ Jack Brown - Milwaukee --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5774 07-24-88 08:52 (Read 96 times) from: JONCARL MITCHELL to: ALL subject: DOS3.31/CLIPPER I have found a problem related with the Compaq Dos 3.31 . While running a application in Clipper Index about 15 indexes the time would take about 30 seconds with CEMM OFF or with Set Clipper=R100;e0 . But when I had CEMM active and not using e0 in the set command the index time would take 55 seconds.I also was getting kicked out of using the run command in Clipper for the same reason.I have finally narrowed the problem down to the following .THe problem does not occur if I remove the use of vdisk in my config.sys file ,It only occurs when using Cemm and Vdisk both together I have tried using different pages for CEMM but this does not seem to help at all. Sample config.sys file that cause problem: rem autocad synth shell=command.com/p/e:1024 device = ansi.sys device=c:\cemm.exe 1200 auto device=c:\vdisk.sys 3000 64 200 /e:8 device=c:\cache.exe 512 on /ext buffers=25 files=40 lastdrive = f Sample config.sys file that works ok: rem autocad synth shell=command.com/p/e:1024 device = ansi.sys device=c:\cemm.exe 1200 auto device=c:\cache.exe 512 on /ext buffers=25 files=40 lastdrive = f I really need some help solving this problem .Nantucket does not seem to know whats causing the problem. THanks In Advance: Joncarl Mitchell --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5777 07-24-88 13:35 (Read 102 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: ALL subject: --MACROS IN QUICKBASIC 4 Help! I need to somehow be able to read input into a variable name. dBASE III has this ability with the & (macro) character, but I can't find the equivalent in QuickBASIC (or reg. BASIC for that matter). I need to read variable names from a file and use them to assign values. For instance, I have a field in my user-defined database called GOTO_ON which allows the user to specify the place to go based upon the value stored in a variable. If the user enters "EMPNO=99" then the program will do something if the empno field = 99. How do I read in and evaluate the input against the memoryvariables (without saying IF input=EMPNO then variable=EMPNO, etc. for every possible variable) Thanks, ALL -- I'm sure there must be a way - I hope I explained this well enough -- please HURRY with a response! --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5778 07-24-88 16:43 (Read 96 times) from: CHARLES PERRIN to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd) subject: R: --MACROS IN QUICKBASI Reply to #5777 You have to decided what you are doing and set up IF statements to do it. (It may be a loop to check all the possible choices.) >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5777 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5779 07-24-88 17:43 (Read 94 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: CHARLES PERRIN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: --MACROS IN QUICKB Reply to #5778 Are you familiar with what I am asking about (e.g. dBASE's macro function) and are you saying with certainty that there is no equiv- alent in QuickBASIC 4.0? I want to allow the user to pass in "variable=value" strings that I can translate to code DIRECTLY without any giant (and inflexible) IF...THEN loops containing every variable possible. Thanks anyway...! Still looking for positive reply to this one if you do know what I mean (it's kind of hard to explain). -Mark >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5777 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5786 07-25-88 02:19 (Read 95 times) from: THOMAS ATKINSON to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd) subject: R: R: --MACROS IN QUICKB Reply to #5779 I am not 100% on what you are trying but does not basic have the capability of say ON GOTO_ON GOTO 100,200,300,400 etc... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5777 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5792 07-25-88 18:54 (Read 95 times) from: JOE VINCENT to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd) subject: R: R: --MACROS IN QUICKB Reply to #5779 Dear Mr. Computing (or may we call you UMW?): If I understand you correctly, there are two ways to do what you want. First, check out the "SELECT CASE" statement. It allows you to execute a statement block if a variable has one of several values. Second, it your variable is a numeric field with continuous values (e.g., 1,2,3,4, . . .), you can use the "ON" statement to jump to code corresponding to each of the values. There might be other ways to do what you want, but these two occurred to me immediately. Hope I understood what you are trying to do. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5777 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5793 07-25-88 18:56 (Read 97 times) from: JOHN GRANT to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd) subject: R: R: --MACROS IN QUICKB Reply to #5779 I dabble both in dBASE and QB and have not found any reasonable substitute for macros in the latter. I think Charles is right in that an IF...ELSE type of construct (or SELECT CASE) may be the only way. Macros are both powerful as hell and a dog to debug and document. I'm not a big fan of replacing entire lines of code with them, but I know what you're trying to do and hard-coding the possibilities may be the only way. BTW, is UWM using QB in its micro-labs now? What else has changed since I last camped overnight in a hallway to get a seat in those labs the next morning? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5777 reply #5 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5794 07-25-88 18:56 (Read 99 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: THOMAS ATKINSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: --MACROS IN QUICKB Reply to #5786 I need to input a field NAME from an external source. dBASE III allows this like so: SAY "Enter the field name :" GET fieldnm SAY "Enter the value you want stored in the field" GET value STORE value TO &fieldnm . The above (sample) code would store the inputted value into the memory variable named whatever the user input for fieldnm. Understand? I need to somehow input field NAMES -- and without the use of more indirect methods (which would be infeasible for my application) such as large nested IFs or ON..GOSUBS or what- ever. Does ANYONE understand the nature of my problem? Thanks for the effort. I appreciate any input. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5777 reply #6 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5795 07-25-88 18:59 (Read 94 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: JOE VINCENT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: --MACROS IN QUICKB Reply to #5792 Close, no cigar. Please read reply to Thomas, who suggested the same thing. I am a reasonably experienced programmer and trainer, and I should warn you that I've exhausted all traditional (and commonly used) approaches. Thanx again. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5777 reply #7 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5796 07-25-88 19:04 (Read 97 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: JOHN GRANT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: --MACROS IN QUICKB Reply to #5793 John, Thank you for your comments. Everyone (including MicroSoft tech support) concurs with your sad but apparently true statement that the feature may not exist in the format I need. I DONT REALLY HAVE MUCH CHOICE WITH THIS APPLICATION, THOUGH! I'm dealing with 15+ datafiles with upwards of 20 fields in each and the size of the resultant nested IF boggles the MIND. HELP anyone? Is there a function I don't know about? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5777 reply #8 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5797 07-25-88 19:08 (Read 96 times) from: JOE VINCENT to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd) subject: R: R: --MACROS IN QUICKB Reply to #5795 I think you're up against the "compile time vs run time" problem. Since variable names are resolved at compile time, they're of no importance at run time. So, how about this: allocate two arrays, one for variable names at run time and the other for variable values at run time (your compile-time variable names will have nothing to do with this). When your user inputs a variable name and value, store the variable name in the first cell of your variable name array and the variable value in the first cell of your variable value array. Continue like this for the second through nth variables. This associates a variable name with a variable value at run time, as you wanted. For more efficient reference, sort the variable name array, making the same rearrangement in the variable value array, at some point. Is that any closer to what you want to do? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5777 reply #9 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5798 07-25-88 19:11 (Read 100 times) from: JOHN GRANT to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd) subject: R: R: --MACROS IN QUICKB Reply to #5796 Have you noticed how over-indulgence in macros is dBASE brings it (or any compiler) grinding to a crawl? My only suggestion would be to explore writing a function in C (dBASE is written in C...they musta figured out a way to macro substitute in C) and creating a library (and quick-library) module and take your best shot. You should be able to link large-model compiled C object with QB. Are you still that desperate? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5777 reply #10 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5799 07-25-88 19:43 (Read 98 times) from: THOMAS ATKINSON to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd) subject: R: R: --MACROS IN QUICKB Reply to #5794 There may be an easier way and it may show up right after this message but, if you could find a memory map on basic itself, there must be a location that points to the beginning of variable storage. From there it must be set up something like, name of variable, length of variable, type of variable, and either the data to the variable or a pointer to the variable, then a pointer to the next variable. I am confussing myself with this one... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5777 reply #11 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5801 07-25-88 22:42 (Read 110 times) from: TOM FELLER to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd) subject: R: R: --MACROS IN QUICKB Reply to #5794 I know of only one good way to do this. You need to use a hash table. This is a array with linked lists at each element. I don't know if you can create this sort of thing in basic, if not a 2d array may do the job. Each element would have a value and a name. The hash method is the fastest way to resolve 1d, then you can go through the other 1d and match. A good hash function is add all the ascii values of all the characters in the name and then mod with the max size of the 1d array. This will resolve the 1d subscript for initial placement and searching the array. Just make shure you use the same function for both. You can set all names to empty to start with and set them as you place them. You always add to the end of the 2nd d during placement. Any help? -Tom Feller- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5777 reply #12 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5803 07-26-88 08:03 (Read 105 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: JOE VINCENT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: --MACROS IN QUICKB Reply to #5797 Could be, Joe - let me get back to you after I've thought about this and tested it. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5777 reply #13 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5804 07-26-88 08:05 (Read 105 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: JOHN GRANT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: --MACROS IN QUICKB Reply to #5798 John- You seem to be the only one who understands the nature of my problem (and perhaps the fact that there lacks an easy solution). Thanks for your suggestion. -MArk >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5777 reply #14 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5805 07-26-88 08:08 (Read 106 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: THOMAS ATKINSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: --MACROS IN QUICKB Reply to #5799 -Thanks Thomas. I'll consider your suggestion. You may want to read John Grant's replies to my quandary - he seems to have the best grasp on what I am trying to accomplish. Thanks again - it's so nice to have people that want to help. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5777 reply #15 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5806 07-26-88 08:10 (Read 105 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: --MACROS IN QUICKB Reply to #5801 Thanks, Tom- I'll look into your suggestion and get back to you. -Mark. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5777 reply #16 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5808 07-26-88 10:21 (Read 102 times) from: MARK GINSBERG to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd) subject: R: R: --MACROS IN QUICKB Reply to #5779 Yipes that is an amazing requirement. Why not keep records where the first field is the 'key' or 'lookup' value. I don't know of any widely used language which will let you get away with what you want. There is a far fetched way of using an interpreted language which is programed to be self modifying, but really.... that would be ugly. It is a cute problem to give elementary CS students though... It would make them think about what a compiler really does. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5777 reply #17 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5809 07-26-88 21:01 (Read 99 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: MARK GINSBERG (Rcvd) subject: R: R: --MACROS IN QUICKB Reply to #5808 Do I detect a hint of SMUGness here? Really Mark, I am aware of at least one interpretive language and one compiled language that DOES perform what I ask (dBASE III Plus "&" or macro command) and the "C" language. I am sure this would be possible with other low-level languages besides C as well. My experience in high-level languages and system analysis is broad enough to understand the difference between compiled and interpreted languages. Perhaps a more detailed explanation of my problem woule help you understand the nature of my needs. A look at the explanation of the "&" function in the dBASE III manual (a WIDEly used program, although the code is interpretive in its native state) would explain best. Thanks anyway, Mark. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5777 reply #18 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5811 07-26-88 21:49 (Read 101 times) from: JOHN GRANT to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd) subject: R: R: --MACROS IN QUICKB Reply to #5804 I believe I saw Joe Vincent put forth a good suggestion. The sorted array with one containing the name of the variable and the other containing the value may be the closest thing to how dBASE actually executes macros if you really want to get down to low level code. And, I believe, if well written, this approach would still blow away dBASE (compiled or not) as far as the overhead (read speed) in processing macros. Of course, unless your proficient at balanced binary trees, you'd need to re-sort the array of variable names each time you tossed a new one in. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5777 reply #19 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5813 07-26-88 22:07 (Read 101 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd) subject: R: R: --MACROS IN QUICKB Reply to #5794 I sort of unterstand the problem from the dBase side. The main problem stems from dBase's being an interpreter. It's a lot easier to do that sort of thing. Since the variable name isn't known until runtime, QB can't generate the appropriate code since it doesn't know what location to use. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5777 reply #20 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5814 07-26-88 22:39 (Read 101 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: JOHN GRANT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: --MACROS IN QUICKB Reply to #5811 John- Thanks, yes, I read Joe's suggestion (and thanked him for it). This is probably the best alternative. For reasons it would be difficult (and long-winded) to describe here, I don't think I have much other choice, except perhaps multiple-language code with calls to sub-programs written in "C." The reason I have to stick with QuickBASIC for the main module is the QB library package I use, db/LIB, which allows me to use the dBASE file format. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5777 reply #21 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5816 07-26-88 22:48 (Read 104 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: --MACROS IN QUICKB Reply to #5813 thx Glen. My understanding of this problem has been greatly enhanced thru the fine suggestions of friends on PC-EXEC --- Apparently, interpreted languages aren't the only ones that can do this- I have a friend who does this in C. Thanks again. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5777 reply #22 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5818 07-27-88 19:04 (Read 105 times) from: JOE VINCENT to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd) subject: R: R: --MACROS IN QUICKB Reply to #5803 Another possibility (or a refinement, perhaps) -- if your record is a string containing fields, you could construct an array containing "pointers" (in BASIC, really no more than integers containing relative displacements within the string) to field locations within the string. A second array would contain the variable names corresponding to the pointers in the first array. Using this, you could still do your lookup on variable name in the variable name array and then obtain the pointer into the record from the pointer array. A nice touch would be to make the pointer array two-dimensional and also carry the field length along with the pointer. The suggestion about locating variable allocations from a BASIC map is a possibility, but I don't trust MS to leave things alone from one release to the next. There is such a thing as a string descriptor, the address of which you can obtain with VARPTR and VARSEG, but that's only good for strings and doesn't contain the variable name in any event. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5777 reply #23 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5821 07-27-88 23:25 (Read 107 times) from: TOM FELLER to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd) subject: R: R: --MACROS IN QUICKB Reply to #5796 The lookup method would also work well. However, if the array was large the hash method would be very much faster. If you have 100 variables in a 10x10 hashed array, the hash method would be 10x faster. -Tom Feller- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5777 reply #24 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5834 07-30-88 16:50 (Read 108 times) from: JOE KNAPP to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd) subject: R: --MACROS IN QUICKBASI Reply to #5777 I think I understand what you need, but QUICKB does not maintain your original variable names after your code is compiled. The only thing you can do is store the original variable names in a string array and build a SELECT CASE to check the current value, using the element number as a reference. Here's an example of a simple system to maintain access to variables called "A", "B" and "O$": Descriptor$(1) = "A" Descriptor$(2) = "B" Descriptor$(3) = "O$" REM Your user enters "A = 1", you parse out the variable name "A" REM and the test value of 1 FOR J = 1 TO 3 IF Descriptor$(J) = UsersVariable$ THEN VariableNum = J EXIT FOR END IF NEXT SELECT CASE VariableNum CASE 1 TestVal = A CASE 2 TestVal = B CASE 3 TestVal$ = O$ END SELECT Now all you have to do is compare TestVal to what the user entered and see if they match. Obviously, as you can see from this example, you must also keep track of each variable type (int, string, etc..), and provide some error trapping for invalid variable names. Instead of doing a sequential search (the FOR loop above), you could use a hashing scheme as previously suggested. If it were a long list, I would maintain the Descriptor array in sorted order and use a binary search technique to locate the desired name. I hope this sheds some light on a seemingly hopeless situation... Joe Knapp >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5777 reply #25 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5780 07-24-88 20:55 (Read 96 times) from: BRUCE SHERMAN to: ALL subject: TP3.0 DRIVE EXIST? How can I check, using TurboPascal, for the existence of a floppy drive, without requiring the user to insert a floppy disk into the drive? --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5807 07-26-88 10:15 (Read 100 times) from: MARK GINSBERG to: BRUCE SHERMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: TP3.0 DRIVE EXIST? Reply to #5780 As I recall, the way to do that is to use a combination of 2 DOS calls. 1) What is the current drive? and 2) Change drives. The algorithm runs as follows. 1) Record the current drive. (So we can come back.) 2) For Drives 'A' to 'Z' do 2a) Change to the drive. 2b) Check the current drive. If it is not the same as the drive just changed to... The drive we just changed to does not exist. If the drive we are on IS the drive we just changed to... The drive exists. Is this the kind of thing you were looking for? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5780 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5828 07-28-88 22:28 (Read 99 times) from: BRUCE SHERMAN to: MARK GINSBERG (Rcvd) subject: R: R: TP3.0 DRIVE EXIST? Reply to #5807 Yes, I have tried something like that, which works find on hard drives. However, when changing to Drive A or Drive B, the system prompts to insert a floppy disk. That, of course, is undesireable. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5780 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5784 07-24-88 23:51 (Read 95 times) from: JOHN HIBSCHER to: ALL subject: COM USE Has anyone out there done any extensive work with the COM1: port or modem driving with Turbo Pascal 4.0? I'm most interested in setting up a small BBS of my own. I have a Hayes. Please leave a message if you think you're hot - and that in itself warrants a reply. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5787 07-25-88 02:24 (Read 92 times) from: THOMAS ATKINSON to: JOHN HIBSCHER (Rcvd) subject: R: COM USE Reply to #5784 I just uploaded the source for a BBS that i myself use. It is TPBOARD, in TP4, and will fill you in very well. You will also need the files TPB41-?.ARC set as some setup utils and maintenance utils are not in source form. Also to compile the main BBS source you will need two products, OVERLAY manager and TURBO PROFESSIONAL. But, if you are hot, you could just download the TPBOARD source and create the needed util programs from the file structures and such... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5784 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5790 07-25-88 13:46 (Read 99 times) from: JOHN HIBSCHER to: THOMAS ATKINSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: COM USE Reply to #5787 Thanks for the tip. I'll check it out, but I'm not sure that it's what I'm looking for. You know, if I could just look at the source code, that would be ideal. I'll stay in touch. Thanks again! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5784 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5810 07-26-88 21:21 (Read 101 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: JOHN GRANT (Rcvd) subject: QB MACROS John- Thanks for your understanding of the prob. I am enlisting the help of a local "C" expert who will be writing a couple subprograms that will interface with my main module. Part of the reason I'm confined to the use of QuickBASIC is my need for the use of DB/LIB, a package of qb4->dbase libraries that allow the creation/update/read of files in the dBASE II/III file format. We are allowing the ultimate user of our package a certain amount of flexibility in the creation and update of their files. The use of the macro function would greatly facilitate this flexibility. Oh, and BTW, I'm no longer a student at UWM, but remember the long lines and the 5-coffee mornings in the microlabs too. Any students out there that could comment on the current situation of the lab? thx again. -Mark. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5812 07-26-88 21:53 (Read 104 times) from: JOHN GRANT to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd) subject: R: QB MACROS Reply to #5810 How nice of them to extend their EXEC subscription to an alum! Hey, how do you like dbLIB? Is it easy to use in the QB development environent? Does the resultant code run faster, better and in less memory? What are you using for a screen routine package for QB? I am in the market for both, unless I can warm up to a good commercial B-tree package before someone convinces me that dbLIB is the way to go. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5810 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5815 07-26-88 22:45 (Read 106 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: JOHN GRANT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QB MACROS Reply to #5812 John- Hi again! db/LIB is extremely easy to use and flexible. The calls are easily set up, and contain just about everything you would be interested to know about a dbf. If you want to learn more about this, let me know and either I can send you something or I'd be happy to perhaps demo it for you. I'm not using anything for a screen routine package... in fact, I hadn't considered anything to date. How would this help me? Please note that I am writing a DATA COLLECTION system for TNET terminals (20 in all) in a manufacturing environment. This application is quickly growing beyond my level of expertise, I fear! Thx again. -Mark >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5810 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5823 07-28-88 20:00 (Read 101 times) from: JOHN GRANT to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QB MACROS Reply to #5815 Maybe you could u/l a demo to my BBS, Field & Screen @ 226-6122 6PM-6AM M-F and 24hrs weekends. I have written a routine that mimics the @ SAY...GET in dBASE for QB4. It has limited editing (force uppercase, numeric, rt-justify numeric) and allows multiple 'GETS' prior to a 'READ' so you can arrow up and down through the input fields. I have seen routines to 'GET' one field, but few PD stuff can handle multiple fields like dBASE. If you are interested, I will also u/l an example to my board. See you there! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5810 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5826 07-28-88 21:55 (Read 100 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: JOHN GRANT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QB MACROS Reply to #5823 Yes, John, I would be interested in a demo of your @say get routine for QB 4.0. I'll get in your BBS and upload a db/LIB demo when I get a chance soon. Thanks again for your prompt replies and interest in helping out. -Mark >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5810 reply #4 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5820 07-27-88 22:59 (Read 107 times) from: TOM FELLER to: ALL subject: UNIX V Unix system V release 3 for 80386 from $145 complete! Buy the complete Interactive Systems port of UNIX, created for Intel Corp. and certified by AT+T on AT compatibles, for only $145 for the 2 user license and only $275 for the unlimited users license. The price includes Interactive Systems 386/ix device drivers, all development tools, C Compiler, Link, vi editor, and all other UNIX utilities, files and programs, including Remote File System, Streams, and TLI. Included are all commercial enhancements; user friendly menus, built in support for cartridge tape backup, "smart" and "dumb" serial cards, RLL and ESDI disks, 80387 and Weitek math coprocessors. UNIX from Bell Technologies ships Ethernet ready with a complete RFS distributed file system. Cost for all of UNIX including all the manuals, media kit, and unlimited number of users is $495. Call 1-800-FOR-UNIX to place a order from. Bell Technologies, 330 Warren Avenue, Fremont, CA, 94539. Telex 3723620 .. I got this info from one of those card packs. -Tom Feller- --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5835 07-31-88 09:21 (Read 102 times) from: DEAN ROTH to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: UNIX V Reply to #5820 Interactive System's advertisement in UNIX World (July '88) says that its 386/ix UNIX includes VP/ix. VP/ix is software that runs MS-DOS software (a DOS window) under UNIX. VP/ix is supposed to be the same software Sun is using on its Sun 386i, which can have multiple DOS windows, and DOS software can read UNIX files and vice versa, and a lot more! Too bad I don't have a 386 machine. This sounds interesting. -Dean >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5820 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5824 07-28-88 20:37 (Read 97 times) from: DAVE CLAY to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd) subject: --MACROS IN QUICKB May I jump into this thread and offer a couple of suggestions. At the first of July, I asked for help on CI$ for a tool kit to do dBASE inputs: @ yy SAY xxxxxxx GET X type of screen control. I got three responses: 1. Try "PANEL" from Roundhill 2. "QBTOOLS" form Mark Moran (7165,757) phone 800-678-2112 3. "MicroHelp Tool Box" from Mark Novisoff (73047,3706) These tool kits may also do what you want. I have not had time to look at any, but if you find out about anything which does work, let me know. Good Luck Dave Clay --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5827 07-28-88 21:57 (Read 97 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: DAVE CLAY (Rcvd) subject: R: --MACROS IN QUICKB Reply to #5824 Dave- Thanks for your suggestions. It might be interesting to see what these packages can offer, and I will follow up on it. -Mark >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5824 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5825 07-28-88 20:44 (Read 101 times) from: DAVE CLAY to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: DISABLING CTRL-BRK cc: PAT SHEA Grant, After mulling over the various thoughts on this thread, it just occurred to me that I wrote a program to pretty much do what you want. Unfortunately, I don't know a single line of "C" code, so I wrote my program in MASM. What I did was write a DOS shell ala chapter 10 of Ray Duncan's book. It took me 8 pages in MASM, but he gives a 2 page C example to do the same thing. The shell will work with any program. Once debugged, it could be added to any application. The algorithm consists of 4 parts. In MASM, it makes a 3k .COM file. The parts are: 1.0 Prelude 1.1 Define 2 (yes TWO) arrays for 2 stacks. 1.2 Grab both Int 23h and 1Bh and assign them to Int 60h & 61h just in case YOU want to use them. 1.3 Check for the existence of your application and its support files and any other safety checks necessary. 1.4 Release all excess memory. 1.5 Save SS & SP of your shell's first stack. 2.0 Call Your Application Do the DOS equivalent of the UNIX EXEC function. 3.0 Postlude (after your application terminates) 3.1 Restore your shell's first stack SS & SP. 3.1 Grab the error code from your application (the child process). 3.2 Clean house. Reverse step 1.2 3.3 Terminate the shell and return any error code applicable. 4.0 Interrupt Handlers (PROC FAR) 4.1 Write a handler to do whatever your heart desires if your user does hit the break keys. 4.2 Cautions. This is where you must use the second stack array. Set SS & SP to point to your shell's second stack. Do **NOT** use your shell's first stack!!! You also must save your child's registers if you want to return to the child. You can pop your child's CS, IP, & FLAGS from your child's stack, if you want, but put them back when done. 4.3 End the interrupt handler with IRET. If you want, I can upload the source to my version of the above scheme. It was written to unprotect a game but it would be a start for you. Some day, I will have to break down and learn C so I can talk the same language as the rest of the world. A note on writing interrupt handlers. The above program was only the second MASM program I ever wrote. The first was a 126 byte long .COM file. While debugging my Int 13h handler, I had my child process calling me, DOS was in line calling me, Periscope was calling me and I was all messed up. I felt like I was standing at Hollywood & Vine on a Saturday afternoon with my pants down. But with a little perseverance, anybody can write an interrupt handler. Good Luck (you may need it), Dave Clay --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5832 07-30-88 12:53 (Read 96 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: DAVE CLAY (Rcvd) subject: R: DISABLING CTRL-BRK Reply to #5825 cc: PAT SHEA Dave , Thanks for your contributing essay! Your approach is interesting. I have finished working out 3 different techniques for stomping out ctrl-brk, ctrl-c, and their bastard cousins ctrl-@ and <alt>-<keypad-3>, 2 of the 3 involve superceding/intercepting the keyboard-interrupt (intr 09h), the bios ctrl-brk interrupt (intr 1bh), and the DOS ctrl-C (and other relatives) interrupt (intr 23h). The 3rd was elementary --- using IOCTL - DOS function 44h, which I uploaded as UNFILKEY.ARC. However, an "anomaly" (or design flaw, if you will) in pre-AT PC bios causes the type-ahead buffer to be "wiped" - or reset - effectiively discarding the typed ahead characters, if any when BIOS senses the ctrl- brk key. So, unless the keystroke is jury-rigged BEFORE it gets to the standard BIOS intr09, all the code ever written to do cute things in the interrupt handlers will NOT salvage the type-ahead buffer. I have finished up all three examples. I am now documentingd my observations and will upload the documented samples and commentary when I have it finished. THis commentary contains stuff that MS and IBM FAILED MISERABLY to document in their own overpriced publications and which I have NOT found clearly explained anywhere in other formal books and pubs on the market. This has been a painful, annoying, and time-consuming exercise which I hope others can now avoid by using added info. I also hope that MS/IBM has developed a more reasonable set of tools and options for controlling the keyboard in OS/2. Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5825 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5829 07-29-88 08:05 (Read 103 times) from: JAMES MCSWAIN to: ALL subject: VAX C PROGRAMMING I have been working on a microvax running vms. I am programming in vax C and trying to talk to a terminal port. I have assigned a channel for my system call but I still can't get any answer. Do you have to set each modem signal or what? Does anyone know of any boards that have vax source code? I wrote to DECUS but haven't heard anything. >>>>>>>james<<<<<<<< --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5830 07-29-88 20:29 (Read 102 times) from: JEFF FRENCH to: ALL subject: C DATABASE DEVELOPMENT I have a problem, hopefully someone can help... There is a book on the market now called 'C Database Development' by Al Stevens. The code in the book (and the diskette) seems to have a problem when deleting indexes (this also includes updateing records). If anyone else has run into the same problems, and have any insight as to what the problem is, you help would be greatly appreciated. Also the date validation routine doesn't seem to work past the 15th day of (any) month, however this problem is easily solved. Again, any help would be appreciated. I have tryed the code with MSC (5.1 and QC) as well as Lattice C 3.2, and even Turbo C 1.5, I get the exact same results. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5831 07-30-88 09:32 (Read 93 times) from: KEN LECLAIR to: ALL subject: PRINTER CONTROL Is there a source of printer control infomation? I need to write a configration program to be included in a pascal program to allow selection of printers or to allow a user to add a new printer. A source of printer control information would be of help. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5836 07-31-88 11:29 (Read 99 times) from: GARRY PREFONTAINE to: ALL subject: CLIPPER DEVELOPMENT W've just switched from Quicksilver to Clipper S87 and are working on setting up a good development environment. Clipper programmers: what have you found to be a good HARDWARE environment, and also , what have you found to be a good SOFTWARE environment (Libraries, tools etc). Would appreciate any input. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5837 07-31-88 19:33 (Read 96 times) from: JOHN GRANT to: GARRY PREFONTAINE (Rcvd) subject: R: CLIPPER DEVELOPMENT Reply to #5836 I wonder if you could somewhat expound on your decision to switch? A short time ago, I recall seeing you talking about setting up the perfect QS BBS (or was it dBASE). I am a QS user and am interested in your ideas. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5836 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5842 08-01-88 08:52 (Read 104 times) from: GARRY PREFONTAINE to: JOHN GRANT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: CLIPPER DEVELOPMEN Reply to #5837 John, several things brought about the decision. First off - speed. There's just no comparison. 2nd - speed of compilation. I'm still getting used to not having to go for a walk during a compilation. Other reasons include size of EXE files, the direction Wordtech is taking in their priorities, 3rd party products and libraries, use of MS C instead of Lattice. Also, menu creation is very simple. And I've been able to easily emulate the windows - which was my one BIG reason for staying with QS. The other major reason was an interpretive environment - but with the speed of Clipper compilation its just not a problem. I haven't found anything to take more than 45 seconds to compile - and that's in the 10,000 lines of code range. I did, by the way, put together a pretty big library - but most of it was Clipper related - there just wasn't that much out there for QS. I'm looking for a BBS to put it - about 8-10 megs worth - on. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5836 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5879 08-06-88 15:28 (Read 98 times) from: JOHN WALLACE to: GARRY PREFONTAINE (Rcvd) subject: R: CLIPPER DEVELOPMENT Reply to #5836 cc: JOHN GRANT Garry, I don't want to start a "this product versus that product" debate, but I am interested in your observations of QuickSilver versus Clipper. While I didn't do extensive research into the two, I just bought QS and dBXL 1.2c as an investment into breaking into a little moonlighting commercial programming. The long compile times of QS don't bother me because I develop under dBXL, and the size of the EXE files don't concern me because of the prevalence of 640K machines. I had thought that WordTech added enough extras to make it attractive, plus I found the pair cheaper than a dB3+/Clipper combo. I compiled one DB3 application for a friend who had the Clipper file, and got (qualitative...not quantitative) favorable comments back regarding execution times. I'm particularly interested in your comments because you have switched camps...was that completely your decision? Incidently, what does the market for "vanilla" data base applications look like? I live about 100 miles north of Milwaukee and am trying to get something going on a part time basis. Any comments, or directions to an appropriate forum, would be appreciated. John Wallace >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5836 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5882 08-07-88 07:45 (Read 96 times) from: GARRY PREFONTAINE to: JOHN WALLACE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: CLIPPER DEVELOPMEN Reply to #5879 JOHN, I got a lot of good mileage out of Quicksilver, and I don't mean to say its not a totally acceptable development environment for compiled Dbase appliations. I just happened to have the opportunity for a close look at Clipper Summer 87 (note: I wouldn't have switched for earlier versions of CLipper), and I felt like I could be more productive in that environment. A couple of points to note: I don't do multiuser, so I have no knowledge how each product stacks up there, though QS has gotten very good reviews in that department. And there are a couple of features in QS I miss - notably the AUTOMEM features. To wrap up, I don't think either Clipper or QS is a bad choice at all, and I'm sure Foxbase users would have some convincing arguments about that product - I understand an EXE producing version is in testing, and if its better than QS or Clipper, I'll use it. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5836 reply #4 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5838 07-31-88 21:25 (Read 98 times) from: CULLEN CAREY to: ALL subject: PSEUDOCODE ? I am currently taking a course using Psedocode for structured basic Anyone who knows of any publication on the subject please leave me a note. I need source materials for a class paper <ie>, history of, origin, names,dates etc. There is very little I can find or that be offered by my instructor. THANKS --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5839 07-31-88 21:54 (Read 98 times) from: RALPH KREIPLE to: CULLEN CAREY (Rcvd) subject: R: PSEUDOCODE ? Reply to #5838 I talked my wife into taking a programming course at MATC for basic. She had to get a text which I found to be excellent for teaching structure and it does show examples of psuedocoding. Suprisingly, the course work frowned on the GOTO statement. "Microsoft BASIC Using Modular Structure" by Julia Case Bradley Ralph >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5838 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5840 07-31-88 23:02 (Read 101 times) from: CULLEN CAREY to: RALPH KREIPLE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PSEUDOCODE ? Reply to #5839 Thanks Ralph, that's one more source to check then I had before. Funny you mention frown on the dreaded GOTO... I have to produce my work for this particular course on an APPLE, and unlike basic for IBM, the coding doesn't support if/then/else so most of the pseudocoding uses a lot of goto this and goto that as an alternative.. Makes for poor programming in some cases, but I must stay with the structure of coding for this course.. I guess I'm spoiled with IBM basic and would get my hand slapped in Pascal if you use it<althought you can> Nothing personal against goto, but not every other line Thanks again Cullen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5838 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5841 08-01-88 00:10 (Read 104 times) from: MIKE ANISFELD to: ALL subject: SOFTWARE DEBUGGING Is there such a beast as a professional free-lance software de-bugger? Am developing a program but need experienced debug assiatnce before I can go out to beta-test. Obviously am willing to pay the going rate (what is the going rate?). If you have experience and are interested, please call me at 312/459-8480 (day/voice) --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5873 08-05-88 17:06 (Read 99 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: MIKE ANISFELD subject: R: SOFTWARE DEBUGGING Reply to #5841 Mike, While I have never heard of such a specific beast (s/w debugger), I find that I do this frequently ..... on code developed by friends, colleagues, and occaisional BBS'ers erquesting help. Can you very briefly state some particulars before I call you on my nickel? E.g. Language, problem / program type (Database, graphics, mixed), etc.. Leave msg in the pvt section here if you like . ... Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5841 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5843 08-01-88 22:18 (Read 105 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: ALL subject: QBASIC DATA COLLECTION Looking for another person experienced with programming of a data collection system and Microsoft QuickBASIC (4.0). Having some problems setting certain things up, having some problems with the host getting locked up, etc. Working with Computerwise TNET data collection devices. Using QuickBASIC as the programming language. Prompting terminals with certain user-definable sequences of prompts. Capturing prompts, writing to file. Anyone who might be able to help? -Mark X --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5844 08-02-88 21:08 (Read 99 times) from: JOHN GRANT to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd) subject: R: QBASIC DATA COLLECTIO Reply to #5843 Hello, again, Mark. Your problem sounds interesting. Can you elaborate a bit more? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5843 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5847 08-03-88 07:58 (Read 96 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: JOHN GRANT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QBASIC DATA COLLEC Reply to #5844 Yes, John. Can I give you a call? Either leave an address or phone # on the service today, or if I haven't received one in a couple days, I'll EMAIL you a (ho-hum) lengthy description of the system I'm trying to develop for a local business (at which a friend of mine is employed). Thx for reply. -Mark >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5843 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5848 08-03-88 18:14 (Read 91 times) from: PHIL HILL to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd) subject: R: QBASIC DATA COLLECTIO Reply to #5843 Mark, I recently worked on a project that *might* be similar -- a QB4 program for a client to autodial a local credit bureau, log on, send a request for info on a particular person (name, address, SSN), and then download a credit report. I, too, had some seemingly unexplainable problems until I persuaded MS to send me version 4.00b of QuickBASIC. All has been working well since. Are you using the "b" version? Phil Hill >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5843 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5849 08-03-88 20:37 (Read 86 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: PHIL HILL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QBASIC DATA COLLEC Reply to #5848 Phil- No, I don't think our projects are similar (boy, my description must be vague). Yes I am using the 4.00b version and it did clear up a couple of the problems but not all of them - still I get hung up on improperly CLOSED COM port- forced to reset system often. Thanks. Mark X. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5843 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5861 08-04-88 18:05 (Read 93 times) from: PHIL HILL to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QBASIC DATA COLLEC Reply to #5849 Mark, Where I thought that they might be similar was in the area of automatically establishing/maintaining the connection and the need to take proper actions based on varied prompts from the other end. I must admit that I really don't have a clear picture of what your system is doing, so I can't even guess what might be causing it to hang. Since you are using 4.00b, I imagine that you've been talking to a tech at MS - but just in case: They told me that QB was very prone to framing errors (data and stop bits getting "out of sync"). Their recommended solution was a routine to close and then reopen the comm port when the error occurs, and this has worked extremely well for me. PH >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5843 reply #5 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5863 08-04-88 21:48 (Read 97 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: PHIL HILL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QBASIC DATA COLLEC Reply to #5861 Phil- Thanks for the suggestion. I will try such a routine. I keep getting hung up. Also, I frequently get the message:"String space corrupt" and also "Internal error:pool segments depleted". Any ideas? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5843 reply #6 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5874 08-05-88 23:39 (Read 96 times) from: PHIL HILL to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QBASIC DATA COLLEC Reply to #5863 Well, I hesitate to even speculate without knowing more about the circumstances, but I do know that "String space corrupt" errors are frequently caused by problems with arrays. QuickBASIC can be "quirky" in its array-handling and not always consistent between the environment and bc. PH >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5843 reply #7 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5877 08-06-88 10:07 (Read 98 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: PHIL HILL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QBASIC DATA COLLEC Reply to #5874 Thanks, Phil Hill from Gainseville! I am about halfwaythru development, and my arrays need work anyway. I'll see if I can't scare some knowledgable support out of Micro Soft. MarkX >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5843 reply #8 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5850 08-03-88 22:18 (Read 87 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: ALL subject: QBASIC VARIABLE PROB. This is a weird one folks... I have a program that uses the COM1 port. Actually, the user can set up the port he/she wants by the use of a configuration file that goes along with my system. Problem is, that whenever I go into my source code and try to run it from the integrated environ- ment, the variable PORT$ (which I use to hold the port spec from the user such as COM1: or COM2:, etc.) gets zapped, and all Im left with is just the $. The program then bombs with some message saying "expecting variable name" or "expecting end of statment" or whatever. Then I have to go from error to error and type in PORT again. Not a serious problem,but a confusing one and perhaps a potentially interesting one... Note also that I have QB 4.00b, the maintenance release. -MARK X --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5855 08-04-88 05:55 (Read 90 times) from: CHARLES PERRIN to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd) subject: R: QBASIC VARIABLE PROB. Reply to #5850 No, do NOT call it PORT$ -- that is "P OR T$" and it is probably trying to parse it as that!!!! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5850 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5859 08-04-88 12:23 (Read 95 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: CHARLES PERRIN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QBASIC VARIABLE PR Reply to #5855 I knew it was something dumb like that... Or as Arte Johnson might say, "Very interesting... but STUPID!" thanks. I've already renamed it but was interested in the REASON I HAD TO! Mark X >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5850 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5853 08-04-88 04:26 (Read 83 times) from: JONCARL MITCHELL to: ALL subject: HEX CALCULATOR I need a program that will give me hex to decimal converstion like the following : I put in F670 in Hex and the program returns 63088. I need one as soon as possible . Even if I have to buy one. JOncarl --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5857 08-04-88 07:48 (Read 92 times) from: STEVEN KEY to: JONCARL MITCHELL (Rcvd) subject: R: HEX CALCULATOR Reply to #5853 Joncarl, If all else fails, download one of the Forth interpreters from the board. In Forth, the base of the numerical display routines is programable. In most Forth's you can do this for quick conversions: type in the number ( decimal base is start up default.) change the display base ( most forths have the word HEX to change.) type in a period - "." without the quotes. This displays the number. if you have another number, go back to base 10 before typing in. Most Forths have the word DECIMAL to do that. If you need base 3 or 11 numbers, just type in 3 BASE ! or 11 BASE ! to change the current number base - You'll have to be in base 10 to type in 11 BASE ! to get the right 11 of course. You could also write a short colon definition to input a base 10 number and display it in hex. If believe this would work on any F83 compatible system: : HEXIT #IN HEX . DECIMAL ; Steve >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5853 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5865 08-04-88 23:00 (Read 92 times) from: TOM FELLER to: JONCARL MITCHELL (Rcvd) subject: R: HEX CALCULATOR Reply to #5853 I could do it in about 5 min in C. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5853 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5866 08-04-88 23:31 (Read 90 times) from: TOM FELLER to: JONCARL MITCHELL (Rcvd) subject: R: HEX CALCULATOR Reply to #5853 /* here it is */ #include <stdio.h> main( ) { char buff[20]; long int i; printf("Input the hex number to convert to decimal ->"); gets(buff); sscanf(buff, "%lx", &i); printf("The result is %ld", i); } I will upload the program with the name hex.exe in the file section -Tom Feller- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5853 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5870 08-05-88 13:32 (Read 96 times) from: JONCARL MITCHELL to: STEVEN KEY (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HEX CALCULATOR Reply to #5857 Well Dave Oconner gave me a lead on a Casio Cm-1100 pocket caculator and it works great. Thanks any way. Joncarl >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5853 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5871 08-05-88 13:33 (Read 98 times) from: JONCARL MITCHELL to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HEX CALCULATOR Reply to #5865 Tom, Thanks anyway but I picked up a pocket cacluator that has this option on it. JOncarl >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5853 reply #5 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5872 08-05-88 13:35 (Read 96 times) from: JONCARL MITCHELL to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: HEX CALCULATOR Reply to #5866 Tom, I'll give it a try and then I can also use it with out pulling out the caculator when I'm at my computer. Thanks JOncarl >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5853 reply #6 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5858 08-04-88 10:44 (Read 97 times) from: SCOTT CHAMBERLAIN to: ALL subject: ROM MYSTERY! To all you low-level geniuses out there, or owners of Leading Edge Model M's, please read message #25446 with the same title as this one in the IBM General Board. Thanks, Scott --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5860 08-04-88 16:30 (Read 99 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: ALL subject: QBASIC INTERNAL ERR Can anyone explain to me why I keep getting "Internal error - pool segments depleted" and "String space corrupt" messages followed by system hangup? I have a QB communications program (and YES I DO HAVE the 4.00b maintenance release of QB). Thanx. Mark --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5862 08-04-88 19:05 (Read 98 times) from: CHARLES PERRIN to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd) subject: R: QBASIC INTERNAL ERR Reply to #5860 Is there any assembly language routines in your code? It sounds like they are clobbering areas outside where they should be! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5860 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5864 08-04-88 21:51 (Read 97 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: CHARLES PERRIN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QBASIC INTERNAL ER Reply to #5862 Charles- No, I am not using any assembly language subprograms, but I AM using a couple interrupt calls... One to scroll the information displayed on the host monitor and one to search the disk space. Could these interrupts be the prob? -Mark X >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5860 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5867 08-05-88 05:30 (Read 96 times) from: CHARLES PERRIN to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QBASIC INTERNAL ER Reply to #5864 ANY interrupt can be a problem.... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5860 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5868 08-05-88 07:02 (Read 94 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: CHARLES PERRIN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QBASIC INTERNAL ER Reply to #5867 If I EMAILed you the specific interrupts I am using in the source (there's only a few lines of code involved here), could you help define the problem? I should also mention that the code "compiles" fine and works well (except for the post-run hangups) when I run it in the QB enviroment but when I compile it from the outside, the .EXE hangs up immediately, with the first COM port input. Well, whatchoo think? Could you perhaps lend a hand in this regard? -Mark X >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5860 reply #4 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5869 08-05-88 07:06 (Read 98 times) from: STEPHEN HUENERS to: ALL subject: PROGRAM LISTER I need a way to print listings of WordPerfect 5.0 macros. I guess these areanary files and have been told that a "program lister" is what I want. Can someone direct me to such a facility in the (F)iles section. Thanks very much --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5875 08-06-88 05:24 (Read 98 times) from: ROBERT WELKER to: ALL subject: TURBO BASIC I'm in the market to buy a compiled basic language. QB4 seems to have a lot more fans that TB. Could someone educate me just why that is (what does QB offer that TB doesn't, etc)? Bob --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5876 08-06-88 05:38 (Read 97 times) from: CHARLES PERRIN to: ROBERT WELKER (Rcvd) subject: R: TURBO BASIC Reply to #5875 (1) Better debugger (2) Run-time module (cuts about 20K out of each .EXE file at the cost of carrying around an 80K file.) (3) 150,000 LPM compile speed (4) Microsoft marketing >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5875 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5894 08-09-88 00:04 (Read 94 times) from: ROBERT WELKER to: CHARLES PERRIN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: TURBO BASIC Reply to #5876 Thanks for your reply, Charles ... I guess the only question in my mind is does Borland plan to continue the compiled basic wars, or accede to QB and MicroSoft? ...(at this point, I'll be buying QB4.....) Thanks again, Bob >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5875 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5898 08-09-88 02:39 (Read 96 times) from: CHARLES PERRIN to: ROBERT WELKER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: TURBO BASIC Reply to #5894 I suspect that both of them will keep firing volleys up and down the West Coast as there is a market out there for both of them. (Although Borland is going to have to learn how to debug, although there are those who think PRINT, printf, etc. are acceptable debugging tools. I want to use something better than the mainframes I work on at work at home.....) >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5875 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5906 08-09-88 19:28 (Read 96 times) from: JOE VINCENT to: CHARLES PERRIN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: TURBO BASIC Reply to #5898 Borland will be releasing a generic debugger AND an assembler, addressing two of their shortcomings when compared to MS. Haven't had the first peep from Borland about TB since I acquired it, right after it came out. I guess that means TB has bug-free code and, in its first incarnation, was so perfect as to require no updating. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5875 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5927 08-10-88 23:26 (Read 88 times) from: ROBERT WELKER to: CHARLES PERRIN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: TURBO BASIC Reply to #5898 Charles, Thanks for your comments about QB and TB - I'll keep them in mind when making the final purchase decision (which'll have to be soon - interpreted BASICdrives me nuts ... ). Bob >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5875 reply #5 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5878 08-06-88 14:20 (Read 90 times) from: RICHARD HEBEL to: ALL subject: PCPAINT EGA DISPLAY PROG I am looking for a BASIC, Pascal, or C routine which will display PCPAINT EGA graphics pictures. The PCPAINT files are the file.pic type of files. The graphics type is 640 x 350 x 16color. Much thanks in advance if you can help. PS i've got a CGA routine you can have. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5880 08-06-88 22:25 (Read 92 times) from: THOMAS ATKINSON to: RICHARD HEBEL (Rcvd) subject: R: PCPAINT EGA DISPLAY P Reply to #5878 I am not 100% sure on this. Today i did a scan in Mahoney on 'PASCAL, TURBO, TP3, TP4', i think i saw something in the area you mentioned. It takes a long time to do this scan. The new Exec system will be a flash compared to what i went through with that scan. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5878 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5881 08-07-88 00:56 (Read 92 times) from: RICHARD HEBEL to: THOMAS ATKINSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PCPAINT EGA DISPLA Reply to #5880 It's worth a try... I'm desperate! Seems like the sort of thing that ought to exist somewhere. Thanks... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5878 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5884 08-07-88 13:49 (Read 91 times) from: WILLIAM BIRD to: RICHARD HEBEL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PCPAINT EGA DISPLA Reply to #5881 I probably wrote the program that Thomas is refering to. I think the name is loadpic.arc. It is written in tp 3.0 with source. The biggest problem is that it is very slow. I have considered rewritting it in C but haven't done it yet. What exactly are you trying to do? Have a good day....Bill >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5878 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5885 08-07-88 17:00 (Read 91 times) from: THOMAS ATKINSON to: RICHARD HEBEL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PCPAINT EGA DISPLA Reply to #5881 The file i saw is titled 'LOADPIC.ARC'... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5878 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5892 08-08-88 08:00 (Read 94 times) from: RICHARD HEBEL to: WILLIAM BIRD (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PCPAINT EGA DISPLA Reply to #5884 I found loadpic.arc, and it looks like it might do. I am writing an expert system from a shell, and I want some way of calling diagrams from the shell. I have a large collection of PIC graphics that I don't wish to redo, so something that will let me call these from the shell is indicated. Thanks. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5878 reply #5 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5883 08-07-88 09:12 (Read 95 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: ALL subject: QB RENAME I have need to rename a file from a QB program. I have tried SHELL "rename 11111.222 xxxxx.yyy" and also NAME "11111.222 AS xxxxx.yyy" and neither of them work. I get no runtime error, but the file is not renamed aither. Could anyone give me the correct syntax for a statement that will do it? Sure would appreciate it. Thanks, -[Steve]- --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5886 08-07-88 17:12 (Read 92 times) from: CHARLES PERRIN to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: QB RENAME Reply to #5883 It is NAME "111111.222" AS "XXXXXX.YYY" according to the manual. Page 277. (In QB 4.0, manual 00620, updated 0987.) >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5883 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5887 08-07-88 20:47 (Read 93 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: CHARLES PERRIN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QB RENAME Reply to #5886 Charles, That is the problem. I used exactly that syntax and it didn't work. I tried adding breakpoints before and after the statement to allow me to check the variables and the entire routine was executed but the file was not renamed. What I am doing is: check for file if it exists, rename it if not exist, create it continue The program crashes looking for the file under the new (named TO) filename. Don't remember if I mentioned before, but SHELL "rename xxxxx.yyy 11111.222" doesn't work either. Can't figure it out. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5883 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5890 08-08-88 01:23 (Read 92 times) from: PHIL HILL to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: QB RENAME Reply to #5883 Steve, If I correctly understand what you need to do, the following should do it, unless the file is hidden: FileNum% = FREEFILE OPEN File1$ FOR RANDOM AS FileNum% IF LOF(FileNum%) > 0 THEN ' It already exists, so rename it. CLOSE FileNum% NAME File1$ AS File2$ ELSE ' It didn't exist, but we just ' created it. Size is 0 bytes. CLOSE FileNum% END IF >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5883 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5891 08-08-88 06:46 (Read 96 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: PHIL HILL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QB RENAME Reply to #5890 Phil, Thanks for the reply. I have the logic figured out, but the file does not get renamed by the NAME command. Everything else works OK. What surprised me was it didn't have an error, it just didn't do anything. Then when trying to read the new file, I get a "file not found" error. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5883 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5920 08-10-88 21:19 (Read 81 times) from: JIM KOTSCHI to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: QB RENAME Reply to #5883 Steve; What you need to do is utilize two string variable for the renaming process. Filename1$ would be the [file name as it is now] FileName2$ would be the [file name as you want it to be copied as]. Here is an example Filename1$ = "Myfile" FileName2$ = "MyFile.Bak" 'or any other name you want to give it. 'Then after you open the file Name FileName1$ as fileName2$ I have used this approximate code several times, only I use random files and always check to see if the filee exists first. I do this by utilizing the Block If statements available with QB2,3,4. I Hope this will be of some help to you. Let me know if it has. Good luck Jim >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5883 reply #5 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5921 08-10-88 21:45 (Read 85 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: JIM KOTSCHI (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QB RENAME Reply to #5920 Jim- How do you check to see if the file exists? I have a program that uses the CALL INT86OLD function and I want to get rid of all interrupt usage in the prog. -Mark X >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5883 reply #6 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5930 08-11-88 01:11 (Read 85 times) from: PHIL HILL to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QB RENAME Reply to #5921 Getting rid of INT86OLD sounds like a good move. To test for the existence of a file, try the following (after assigning the filename to the variable File$). ItExists% will hold the result: FileNum% = FREEFILE OPEN File$ FOR RANDOM AS FileNum% IF LOF(FileNum%) > 0 THEN CLOSE FileNum% ItExists% = -1 ' TRUE ELSE CLOSE FileNum% KILL File$ ItExists% = 0 ' FALSE END IF >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5883 reply #7 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5932 08-11-88 06:31 (Read 86 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: JIM KOTSCHI (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QB RENAME Reply to #5920 Jim, That is what I presently have. On the advice of another user, I put in almost that exact code and tried it. It didn't work! So I extracted the code and ran it by itself. There it works and the file gets renamed. Sure don't know why. The original code is part of a loop, so I had to 'force feed' the variables in the stand alone code, but other than that everything is the same. I noticed the reference to opening the file in your reply. That is where the code crashes, trying to open the RENAMED file. Are you saying I should open the original file and THEN rename it? I'll have to try that. Thanks for the reply, I appreciate it. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5883 reply #8 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5934 08-11-88 07:48 (Read 86 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: PHIL HILL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QB RENAME Reply to #5930 Thanks, Phil! I'll give it a try. -Mark X >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5883 reply #9 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5936 08-11-88 16:09 (Read 91 times) from: JIM KOTSCHI to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QB RENAME Reply to #5921 Mark X; Here is an the exact code I used to check if a file exist. Of course I'm not using the CALL INT86OLD function but it may work anyway. NtFile=1 NtFile$="NtFile" open Ntfile$ as NtFile len=1280 rem $include: 's:NtFields.Bas' 'Mark my s: drive has been SUBST (a DOS command) for C:\Source 'which is whrer we keep all of our source code. We do this for 'because we utilize a lot of INCLUDE files. Now that the file is OPENed here is how I check if it Exists. if lof(NtFile)/1280 < 1 then locate 10,10 print "There are no Loan-In-Process on file" Close END End If So in using a random file structure this is how we check if any records exist in the file. If not the program closes ALL files and ends. Hope this helps Jim >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5883 reply #10 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5937 08-11-88 16:17 (Read 86 times) from: JIM KOTSCHI to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QB RENAME Reply to #5932 Steve; In a reply to Msg. #5921 I gave Mark X an example of how we use the opening of a file and checking if it exists. Take a look at it once I don't know if it will help you at all. Jim >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5883 reply #11 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5888 08-07-88 21:10 (Read 93 times) from: DAVE CLAY to: ALL subject: MAKEFILE Can any one help me with a MS make file? ****************************************************** Example #1 I am trying to build a library for a QB 4.00b program using the MAKE.EXE in MASM. Assume that TOL17L.LIB already exists. In the "makefile" I have: TOL17L.LIB: PAGE2.OBJ PAGE3.OBJ PAGE4.OBJ PAUSE.OBJ REVIE.OBJ \ CHANG.OBJ PAGE1.OBJ CALCU.OBJ PRNANS.OBJ MENU2.OBJ PRNTOUT.OB J LIB $@ @$*.RSP, $*.LST, $@; In a seperate file by the name of TOL17L.RSP I have: -+ PAGE1.OBJ& -+ PAGE2.OBJ& -+ PAGE3.OBJ& -+ PAGE4.OBJ& -+ PAUSE.OBJ& -+ REVIE.OBJ& -+ CHANG.OBJ& -+ CALCU.OBJ& -+ PRNASN.OBJ& -+ MENU2.OBJ& -+ PRNTOUT.OBJ The error message says "Cannot load responce file." ******************************************************************* Example # 2 In the makefile I have: TOL17L.LIB: PAGE2.OBJ PAGE3.OBJ PAGE4.OBJ PAUSE.OBJ REVIE.OBJ \ CHANG.OBJ PAGE1.OBJ CALCU.OBJ PRNANS.OBJ MENU2.OBJ PRNTOUT.OB J LIB $@ -+ PAGE1.OBJ& -+ PAGE2.OBJ& -+ PAGE3.OBJ& -+ PAGE4.OBJ& -+ PAUSE.OBJ& -+ REVIE.OBJ& -+ CHANG.OBJ& -+ CALCU.OBJ& -+ PRNASN.OBJ& -+ MENU2.OBJ& -+ PRNTOUT.OBJ, $*.LST, $@; In this case the dumb program prompts the keyboard instead of the file. Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks much. Dave Clay . --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5893 08-08-88 20:27 (Read 91 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: PHIL HILL (Rcvd) subject: QB RENAME cc: CHARLES PERRIN Phil and Charles, Most all of the examples I've seen for the NAME command have the old and new filenames in variables, including the one Phil left. But the manual seems to indicate that it can be declared directly in the command. In any case, I tried compiling again tonight and the it still doesn't work. I have included both filenames in quotes just like it shows in the manual. Any idea why? If you like, I can give you the exact code that fails. Sure would appreciate a hand. -[Steve]- --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5897 08-09-88 02:36 (Read 89 times) from: CHARLES PERRIN to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: QB RENAME Reply to #5893 The one you typed in had too few quotes. It is NAME "A" AS "B" not NAME "A AS B" as it was in the example. Note for it to work that "A" must exist and "B" must NOT exist.... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5893 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5900 08-09-88 07:03 (Read 92 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: CHARLES PERRIN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QB RENAME Reply to #5897 Charles, Sorry about that. But the line in the program has all 4 quotes. And I even went so far as to to assign variables to both filenames and do a NAME file1$ AS file2$ type of thing and still it doesn't work. What surprised me is that there is no error, either from the syntax checking or at runtime. The first file does exist and the second one does not. Wierd... -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5893 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5907 08-09-88 20:40 (Read 88 times) from: PHIL HILL to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: QB RENAME Reply to #5893 It doesn't sound like your code is at fault. Does the rename fail if you compile and run just the offending fragment? For what it's worth, QB appears to rename via Function 56H of INT 21H. Do you make any calls to 21H with CALL INTERRUPT, or do you think there's any chance that a tsr or device driver is getting in the way? Or maybe an anti-virus "vaccine"? PH >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5893 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5910 08-09-88 21:33 (Read 91 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: PHIL HILL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QB RENAME Reply to #5907 Phil, I don't even know what CALL INTERRupt does! Not really, but, no, I am not using it. Not a 'vaccine' either. But possibly a tsr. I'll try to boot from a nude DOS disk and see what happens. Thanks for the suggestion. Never thought of it. But this is the only thing I've found that doesn't work from QB, that and SHELL which I also tried to use to rename the file. I'll let you know what I find. Thanks again... -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5893 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5947 08-11-88 22:13 (Read 81 times) from: THOMAS ATKINSON to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QB RENAME Reply to #5900 I seem to remember a similar problem that was due to either my command.com being hidden, maybe it was read only, it had something to do with command.com though. Good help hey... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5893 reply #5 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5895 08-09-88 00:33 (Read 93 times) from: DAVE KOCOL to: ALL subject: TURBO PASCAL SCHOOLS cc: SYSOP cc: MARK TELLIER cc: PHIL KATZ cc: JUDY GETTS Help, As a novice (begining) programmer, I am enjoying playing with Turbo Pascal. As I plod along, I can't help but think that my time would be far better utilized if I could take a course somewhere. My question is where in the Milwaukee area can one learn the finer points of Turbo Pascal, that the V.A. will recognize as an institution of higher learning. If anyone has taken such a course, I would appreciate knowing the details. Thanks, Dave --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5899 08-09-88 07:01 (Read 95 times) from: MARK TELLIER (LEADER) to: DAVE KOCOL (Rcvd) subject: R: TURBO PASCAL SCHOOLS Reply to #5895 Dave, I have a couple of suggestions for you to check out. First, MSOE has a programming class for 'C' and Pascal in one 12 week quarter. You'll get to see both languages. However, it does make for a fairly rushed coverage of the two languages in that amount of time. I believe that UWM-EXT offers a class in Pascal Programming. I took the class something like 6 to 8 years back. It was "fair" in covering the topics of Pascal. I'm sure that UWM offers a regular (for credit) class as part of the Computer Science department offerings, as well as Marquette U. You would have to call and check on these. Hope this helps. - mwt - >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5895 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5901 08-09-88 16:20 (Read 98 times) from: ANDY WHITCROFT to: DAVE KOCOL (Rcvd) subject: R: TURBO PASCAL SCHOOLS Reply to #5895 Dear Dave, Try Cardinal Stritch College, they sometimes offer a pascal programming course that uses turbo or UCSD pascal, depending on hardware you have. There number is (414) 352-5400. Dr Kasum is the head of the Math/Comp Sci dept, and can tell you exact details, but be warned he is next to impossible to get hold of! andy. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5895 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5978 08-13-88 20:07 (Read 88 times) from: CHRISTOPHER OTTO to: MARK TELLIER (LEADER) (Rcvd) subject: R: R: TURBO PASCAL SCHOO Reply to #5899 ....However, almost every regular course offered by UWM's College of Engineering is closed to everyone not enrolled as an engineering degree candidate. Special students are not welcome. (Budget cuts are really killing that school....) >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5895 reply #3 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5896 08-09-88 00:50 (Read 95 times) from: THOMAS BASHORE to: ALL subject: TURBO PASCAL I need some info on making my T. Pascal program memory resident. Anyone know of a good program to aid me in this subject. I have tried a program called LDRES.com but could not get it to run correctly. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5902 08-09-88 17:11 (Read 109 times) from: LARRY RUBANKA to: ALL subject: PKXARC!!! can anyone direct me to a small un-archiving program which will un-arc files created by pkarc?? The compression method is not particularly important (any of the techniques supported by pkarc will be fine).\ The main concern is the amount of memory required by the program. The un-archiver must run in 58K or less. This program will be run under a DOS application. If there is any such program in the PD, please refer me to it. If anyone has written such a program for sale or is willing to write one for hire, please contact me. Thanks, Larry Rubanka Snap-on Tools Corporation 2801 80th. Street Kenosha, WI 53141-1410 1-800-328-6506 Ext# 5093 --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5903 08-09-88 18:38 (Read 97 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: LARRY RUBANKA (Rcvd) subject: R: PKXARC!!! Reply to #5902 Larry - try PKUNPAKJR (PKXARKJR) distributed with the PK361.exe package. It requires less memoy than PKXARC - but I've forgotten how much it does require. Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5902 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5913 08-10-88 12:32 (Read 93 times) from: LARRY RUBANKA to: PAUL ZIMMERMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PKXARC!!! Reply to #5909 Thanks Paul, ARCE etc. may be just whay we need. Larry Rubanka >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5902 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6078 08-24-88 14:28 (Read 111 times) from: LARRY RUBANKA to: PAUL ZIMMERMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PKXARC!!! Reply to #5917 Thanks loads Paul, the new version of pkxarc should be a ringer. Larry Rubanka >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5902 reply #3 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5904 08-09-88 18:54 (Read 94 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: ALL subject: WATCOM C 6.5 - GOOD!! For those that are interested in alternative to MSC 5.0/5.1, WATCOM C 6.5 looks pretty good .... very compatible with MSC 5.0. Major improvement in code generation time ... what took 45 mins on 4.77 mhz PC now takes 11 mins (compile and link === link is fast - most time is in optimaization compile) using maximum optimization. 45 mins was WATCOM C 6.0 time. Major added functions include a good graphics utility lib set and support for interrupt routines (but there is a "bug" --- compiler does NOT recognize a function as an interrupt function if directly invoked via a function call --- it fails to insert a pushf before calling the interrupt routine --- this can be worked around via a pseudo in-line assembly sequence coded very much like in-line machine code in turbo pascal) Pure memory oriented operations - or compute intensive functions run faster than MSC, but those functions involving a lot of i/o to disk are a little slower. (10 - 11%) BTW MSC5.0 compiles at maximimum optimization in about 6 mins what WC6.5 takes 11 mins to do ojn a pc w/4.77 mhz. Grant --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5905 08-09-88 19:04 (Read 91 times) from: CHARLES PERRIN to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: WATCOM C 6.5 - GOOD!! Reply to #5904 PC Mag reviewed C compilers and rated the WATCOM compiler and the Microsoft compilers (Quick and "Slow") as the best.... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5904 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5938 08-11-88 17:28 (Read 84 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: CHARLES PERRIN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: WATCOM C 6.5 - GOO Reply to #5905 Charles, PCTJ, CL , and DDJ do not agree. PC mag's best is also 2 * best of the others in PRICE. And I did write, ... a good LOWER PRICED alternative .. ...! Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5904 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5911 08-10-88 01:29 (Read 94 times) from: PHIL KATZ to: ALL subject: CRC-32 cc: CHUCK FORSBERG Could someone direct me to documentation or other information on how to calculate a 32 bit CRC value? >Phil> --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5916 08-10-88 19:10 (Read 86 times) from: PAUL ZIMMERMAN to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: R: CRC-32 Reply to #5911 You are on the right track sending a CC to Chuck Forsberg. Look for the Zmodem source code in C I u/led here a few months back (January or so.) There is a table driven 32 bit CRC function in it. I forget who it was credited too, Chuck had some help developing it, but the copyright notice with the code says anyone can use it if they give proper credit. Also, a Turbo Pascal 4.0 Unit for 32 bit CRC is on the board somewhere, too. But you will probably be more interested in the C stuff... Paul (p.s. - does this mean your new file cruncher will have 32 bit CRC? I hope so. Its about time someone did it...) >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5911 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5919 08-10-88 19:59 (Read 84 times) from: JOE VINCENT to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: R: CRC-32 Reply to #5911 Phil, there's a very good discussion of CRCs in "Encyclopedia of Computer Science," Anthony Ralston and Chester L. Meek, Petrocelli/Charter. Let me know if this isn't what you want and I'll dig deeper into the Vincent Library. I have more books than I can look through tonight. Gosh, Phil, why in the world would you be interested in developing your own CRC calculation code? ^- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5911 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5924 08-10-88 21:57 (Read 83 times) from: PHIL KATZ to: PAUL ZIMMERMAN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: CRC-32 Reply to #5916 cc: PAT SHEA Paul, >>(p.s. - does this mean your new file cruncher will have 32 bit CRC? >>I hope so. Its about time someone did it...) Would you believe me if I said that I enjoyed calculating CRC polynomials in my spare time?? In any event, Pat Shea graciously uploaded some info to my BBS about CRC-32. Thanks Pat! >Phil> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5911 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5948 08-11-88 22:17 (Read 82 times) from: THOMAS ATKINSON to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: R: CRC-32 Reply to #5911 See the source to Binkley. MSC, Zmodem mail transfers... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5911 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6039 08-19-88 07:50 (Read 98 times) from: CHUCK FORSBERG to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: R: CRC-32 Reply to #5911 The C source code in rzsz.arc includes atable driven CRC-32 (Federal std CRC32 used by ZMODEM). >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5911 reply #5 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5914 08-10-88 18:06 (Read 85 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: ALL subject: QBASIC DATA COLLECTION HELP WANTED ------------ Looking for someone experienced with Microsoft QuickBASIC and loading large, nested and multi-dimensional arrays. Looking for experience with data collection terminals in a manufacturing environment (or, at least, with handling COM port input). Must be experienced with the use of the CALL INTERRUPT statement, and the use of registers. NEED HELP FAST! Need to get prototype of system out by second week of September, and need someone to consult with (I'm about halfway done with the coding, but I'm kind of stuck now). Please send private mail if interested. Thank you. Mark --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5915 08-10-88 18:17 (Read 85 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: PHIL HILL (Rcvd) subject: QBASIC CALL INTERR Phil- From a previous message of yours, I get the impression that you might be able to help me. I have a QB program that uses the CALL INT86OLD and the CALL INTERRRUPT statements and have good reason to believe that these statements are causing my system to hang up, issue weird messages like "String Space Corrupt" and "Internal Error:Pool segments depleted" and the like. Could you possibly be of assistance? This has really got me stressed out lately... -Mark --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5928 08-11-88 00:20 (Read 82 times) from: PHIL HILL to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd) subject: R: QBASIC CALL INTERR Reply to #5915 Mark, This latest incarnation of QB can be pretty baffling at times - but sure, I'd be glad to help if I can. Without some details, though, I can't say whether I've had any useful experience in the areas that are giving you trouble. Specifically, what interrupt calls are you making, and are you using static or dynamic arrays? Also, I think you were discussing this a while back - are you linking this application with db/LIB (or any other external routines)? PH >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5915 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5933 08-11-88 07:46 (Read 86 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: PHIL HILL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QBASIC CALL INTERR Reply to #5928 THANK YOU PHIL! I'll get back to you with the specifics. And yes, I am using DB/LIB, but don't think that's my problem. Mark X >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5915 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5939 08-11-88 18:54 (Read 83 times) from: PHIL HILL to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QBASIC CALL INTERR Reply to #5933 Where db/LIB could possibly corrupt your string space is if you pass it a near address when a far address is required - not an uncommon problem when using dynamic arrays. PH >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5915 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5942 08-11-88 20:45 (Read 83 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: PHIL HILL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QBASIC CALL INTERR Reply to #5939 Do you really think db/LIB is corrupting the string space? What is the difference between near and far addresses? I'm using arrays defined as COMMON SHARED : AxREG%=0 bxreg%=1 cxreg%=2 dxreg%=3 flreg%=7 dim inary%(8),outary%(8) INARY%(AXREG%)=&H4E00 INARY%(CXREG%)=0 FILE1$=FILENAME$+CHR$(0) INARY%(DXREG%)=SADD(FILE1$) OUTARY%(FLREG%)=0 INTNO%=&H21 CALL INT86OLD(INTNO%,VARPTR(INARY%(0)),VARPTR(OUTARY%(0)) Does the above make sense to you? (ax-dx,fl defined as regtype, integer, DIMmed as share. AAAARRRGH!! - I have two more such interrupts in this program I am modifying. Another gets a disk transer area and the third scrolls the lines displayed on the screen. Thanks. Mark X >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5915 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5950 08-12-88 00:28 (Read 83 times) from: PHIL HILL to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QBASIC CALL INTERR Reply to #5942 This is where it gets a bit complicated. The array in your example uses variables for subscripts (note that the example in the QB manual p.88 uses constants). Such an array is $DYNAMIC, and requires a far address since it is located in a different area of memory. To keep this short (and to avoid making any mis-statements on a subject that I'm not fully comfortable with), I'll refer you to pages 32-33 and 38 in "BASIC Language Reference" and to pages 311-312 and 316 in "Learning and Using Microsoft QuickBASIC" (both are manuals that come with QB4). Note that on p.32 they admit to the inconsistency between programs run in the environment and exe's, but they don't really explain it. Now you just need to decide when to use CALLS rather than CALL, when to use the SEG keyword, and when it doesn't matter. Told you it was getting complicated! Another method of dealing with this situation (that I've seen documented elsewhere) is to change segments right before the call and then change back: DEF SEG = VARSEG(arrayname(0)) CALL function(VARPTR(arrayname(0)) DEF SEG If you have any questions after reading the documentation mentioned above, I'll *try* to clarify - or perhaps someone with a complete command of such things will join the discussion. The OPEN AS RANDOM routine can probably replace your CALL INT86OLD example but, as a point of interest, note that VARPTR isn't normally used here. And as long as upward is the direction you want to scroll, any part of the screen can easily be scrolled with VIEW PRINT. But I don't really understand your reference to "disk transfer area". Could you elaborate? PH >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5915 reply #5 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5953 08-12-88 07:50 (Read 86 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: PHIL HILL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QBASIC CALL INTERR Reply to #5950 Thanks Phil. I was aware of VIEW PRINT, but how do I use this to print on say, line 25 and have the previous lines move UP the screen. Do I have to just do an UN-LOCATEd print on that line and the rest will take care of itself automatically? When I LOCATE 25,1 and then print, I just print on line 25 constantly. -Mark X >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5915 reply #6 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5961 08-12-88 20:32 (Read 87 times) from: PHIL HILL to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QBASIC CALL INTERR Reply to #5953 The default viewport is 1 to 24, probably to maintain compatibility with BASICA's display of function keys on row 25. So, just use VIEW PRINT 1 TO 25. To scroll the line first and leave the message on line 25, issue an extra PRINT and end the line with a semi-colon: LOCATE 25, 1: PRINT LOCATE 25, col%: PRINT msg$; >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5915 reply #7 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5969 08-13-88 10:22 (Read 92 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: PHIL HILL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QBASIC CALL INTERR Reply to #5961 Phil- Thanks for the tip- this is what I've done. Leave it to me to ask questions first before TRYING it myself... Thx again. -Mark X >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5915 reply #8 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5972 08-13-88 13:44 (Read 90 times) from: PHIL HILL to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QBASIC CALL INTERR Reply to #5969 Mark, I've just been visited by a flash from the proverbial "light bulb", which answered my previous question regarding your use of "disk transfer area". Don't know why, but I hadn't made the association with "DTA". By the way, any progress on the "String space corrupt" problem? PH >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5915 reply #9 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5975 08-13-88 18:24 (Read 94 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: PHIL HILL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QBASIC CALL INTERR Reply to #5972 Phil- Pass some of the light from your proverbial light bulb this way! I don't understand this function of the code I am editing. What exactly is a "disk transfer area" (DTA) and what does it do? Is this some sort of RAMdisk emulator? Also, on the string space corrupt, I rewrote two of the interrupts with common BASIC code. The only one I have left is this stupid disk transfer area one. Is the CALL INT86OLD command the same as the old CALL INT86 command? Not really sure of how this works, or what it does. Thanks. -Mark X >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5915 reply #10 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5977 08-13-88 20:00 (Read 93 times) from: PHIL HILL to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QBASIC CALL INTERR Reply to #5975 "DTA" is nothing more than a descriptive term for a sort of buffer that dos uses to hold info for file access. I'm not really all that proficient in low-level file operations, but my guess is that if this is your only routine using CALL INT86OLD, you probably can just delete it, since it would seem to be superflous all by itself. I'd have to see it in context to be more certain, though. Yes, CALL INT86OLD is more-or-less a simulation of CALL INT86 for compatibility with older versions. CALL INTERRUPT is more convenient, because you don't have to mess with arrays. While on the subject, did you have some specific indication that these interrupt calls were causing problems? PH >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5915 reply #11 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5987 08-14-88 06:31 (Read 96 times) from: CHARLES PERRIN to: PHIL HILL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QBASIC CALL INTERR Reply to #5977 cc: UWM COMPUTING cc: PHIL KATZ cc: NICK KEES DTA is the "disk transfer area", idea stolen directly from CP/M..... Gary Kildall should sue for "look and feel".... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5915 reply #12 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5991 08-14-88 12:05 (Read 97 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: PHIL HILL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QBASIC CALL INTERR Reply to #5977 Chances are that the interrupts were the culprits. I got "pool segments depleted errors" and other such silly stuff. I don't think it's db/LIB, because that package comes with many example source code modules that run just fine (and do a lot of the things I'm doing in my prog. Thanks. -Mark X >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5915 reply #13 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5992 08-14-88 12:07 (Read 97 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: CHARLES PERRIN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QBASIC CALL INTERR Reply to #5987 I had a girlfriend that once tried to sue me for "look and feel"... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5915 reply #14 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5995 08-14-88 15:06 (Read 93 times) from: PHIL HILL to: CHARLES PERRIN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QBASIC CALL INTERR Reply to #5987 Agreed. And why hasn't someone claiming to be an heir to the estate of the original inventor of the wheel gone after some of the floppy disk manufacturers? PH >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5915 reply #15 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5996 08-14-88 15:08 (Read 96 times) from: PHIL HILL to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QBASIC CALL INTERR Reply to #5991 I was just curious because the calls seemed relatively harmless, although the one for DTA could give you trouble - if the program wasn't setting aside sufficient space in advance for the result. And I agree that db/LIB probably isn't at fault. From what I've heard, it's a very reliable product. I've been postponing my purchase, but expect to be using it "real soon now" as an adjunct to my QuickSilver programming. How do you like it? PH >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5915 reply #16 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6001 08-14-88 17:38 (Read 109 times) from: CHARLES PERRIN to: PHIL HILL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QBASIC CALL INTERR Reply to #5996 cc: UWM COMPUTING I don't think much code likes having the DTA address changed. (They point it and don't expect it to be changed unless the run-time does it....) >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5915 reply #17 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6003 08-14-88 20:59 (Read 108 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: PHIL HILL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QBASIC CALL INTERR Reply to #5996 I like it lots. Extremely easy to use and so far (apparently) trouble- free. I am recommending it for use at my 9-5, also, where I am a Systems Analyst with Insurance agent's proposal software. Haven't run any benchmarks as far as speed is concerned, but it seems to run pretty quickly. Comes with an entire disk of QB source code that can be modified to create your own progs. -Mark X >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5915 reply #18 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5918 08-10-88 19:28 (Read 84 times) from: CURTIS ABRUE to: CHARLES PERRIN (Rcvd) subject: QB4 <Quick> question...not familiar with QB4 but someone gave me two pgms to run and the reason they wouldn't is because they're written in interpreted IBM BASICA. Will QB4 compile them? I've compiled Pascal, but not BASIC and would like to know before I run out and get them. Someone told me they compiled a BASICA pgm and it ran real sloppy. If not QB4, what else is there? Thanks for your input. Curt --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5923 08-10-88 21:52 (Read 84 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: CURTIS ABRUE (Rcvd) subject: R: QB4 Reply to #5918 Curtis- QB4 will compile BASICA code "as is". The only thing you have to do first is save the BASICA code from within the interpreter with the /A option: issue the command (from the interpreter): SAVE "progname",a This will save the prog in the ASCII format, so that it can be read by QB (and other word processors, etc.). Then, you can compile it with the BC compiler supplied with QB. Either that, or you can first load it into QuickBASIC (QB from the DOS prompt, then load the file with the Alt-F L combo) and hit Shift-F5 (RUN). This will auto-syntax check the code, and tell you if QB doesn't like any of the code, and why. QB also has on-line help, which will direct you to the syntax of any commands you may need to use. Be advised that interpreter-type commands such as SAVE and DELETE and LOAD won't work in QB. Notice that when you compile with QB, the size of the EXE file will be about 18% larger than if you had compiled with the IBM Basic Compiler. -Mark X >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5918 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5931 08-11-88 05:07 (Read 90 times) from: CHARLES PERRIN to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QB4 Reply to #5923 cc: CURTIS ABRUE Or Microsoft Basic Compiler 6.0, probably.... (although QB generates very FAST code.... faster than Quick C.) I have found compatibility with all but the most unruly BASIC code (such as stuff that builds character strings and then executes them as USR subroutines.....). >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5918 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5935 08-11-88 14:08 (Read 86 times) from: CURTIS ABRUE to: CHARLES PERRIN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QB4 Reply to #5931 cc: UWM COMPUTING Thanks. I'll take the advice and use it (I printed the msgs you both sent). It sure would be nice to run these compiled. Thanks Curt >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5918 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5940 08-11-88 19:07 (Read 84 times) from: CURTIS ABRUE to: CHARLES PERRIN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QB4 Reply to #5931 cc: UWM COMPUTING Which is cheaper, QB4.0 or MS-BC6.0? I'm only gonna do this for this project which is why I'm not into $pending? Unless there's a PD compiler (heh-heh). Thanks much! Curt >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5918 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5941 08-11-88 19:21 (Read 83 times) from: JOE VINCENT to: CURTIS ABRUE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QB4 Reply to #5940 QB is cheaper than BASIC 6.0 by far. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5918 reply #5 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5943 08-11-88 20:48 (Read 83 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: CURTIS ABRUE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QB4 Reply to #5940 MS QuickBASIC is MUCH cheaper (at around $60 mail order - the ONLY way to buy software). You are buying less, however. The BIG BASIC compiler sells for I think around $400, but you can write code for OS/2 with it and use it to write programs with single modules larger than 64K (a traditional DOS limitation). -Mark X >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5918 reply #6 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5944 08-11-88 21:40 (Read 81 times) from: CURTIS ABRUE to: JOE VINCENT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QB4 Reply to #5941 Thanks Joe... Btw, how's the market? Big news with discount rate drop, huh... Thanks Curt >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5918 reply #7 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5945 08-11-88 21:45 (Read 83 times) from: CURTIS ABRUE to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QB4 Reply to #5943 cc: CHARLES PERRIN cc: JOE VINCENT Mark--thanks for the info. QB is my style. Now that I think of it, and I wish I hadn't because it opens a can of worms, this pgm wont run on a lot of clones even if they use IBM/BASICA. i'd like to squash the graphics out of it...guess I dig around in there while I'm looking at it. Thanks! Curt >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5918 reply #8 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5949 08-11-88 22:29 (Read 82 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: CURTIS ABRUE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QB4 Reply to #5945 Interesting note : QB 4.0 was recently offered FREE, with purchase of the BIG Microsoft BASIC compiler. I guess this puts things into perspective. -Mark X >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5918 reply #9 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5951 08-12-88 06:10 (Read 81 times) from: CHARLES PERRIN to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QB4 Reply to #5949 Same relationship between Quick C and Microsoft C. Although I would say 98% of the users would never need anything more than the Quick compilers. (My brother likes Quick Basic so much that he didn't move to another language.....) >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5918 reply #10 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5954 08-12-88 11:12 (Read 85 times) from: CURTIS ABRUE to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QB4 Reply to #5949 Wow...sure does put things in perspective. I wish this BASICA version that comes with Dos had a compiler. I guess they were just set up to work with little/personal pgms. That why I don't understand why the guy who wrote these pgms for us used it. Thanks for the info. Curt >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5918 reply #11 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5956 08-12-88 17:10 (Read 86 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: CURTIS ABRUE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QB4 Reply to #5954 IBM also sells a BASIC compiler, for a couple hundred bucks or so. You use it to compile BASICA code. It also comes with an ISAM disk that allows use of ISAM (indexed sequential) files in your BASIC program (a feature left out of QuickBASIC). You don't have many options for File I/O with QB, which is one of the few limitations of the language. You can, however purchase third-party packages with QB that allow ISAM file usage and others that allow the maintainence of files in the dBASE III Plus file format (e.g. BTrieve and db/LIB respectively). I could give you further info on db/LIB and I'm sure others on this BBS could give you info on the popular QB add-on, B-Trieve. -Mark X >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5918 reply #12 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5957 08-12-88 18:19 (Read 87 times) from: CHARLES PERRIN to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QB4 Reply to #5956 QB4 will also compile the great majority of BASICA code.... (so would QB3, and 2, and 1....) >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5918 reply #13 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5958 08-12-88 20:05 (Read 85 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: CHARLES PERRIN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QB4 Reply to #5957 Of course! However, there are a couple reasons I stay away from mixing environments. 1) The IBM BASIC compiler gives you ISAM file processing, which is unsupported by QB (without third party libraries). 2) QuickBASIC's BC compiler works DIFFERENTLY than code run from the coding environment. 3) The BC compiler supplied with QB creates slightly larger executable code than the .EXE files created by the IBM BASIC compiler, although the code is faster... Also, I have found inconsistencies between compilers in the way calculations are handled. 4) It's a bit difficult when you get used to coding in QB to remember which functions are unsupported or handled differ- ently with the other compiler (if the other one is the one you wish to user). And vice versa. FOR THESE REASONS (and a few more) I would recommend compiling QB code with BC, and BASICA code with the IBM compiler. -Mark X >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5918 reply #14 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5962 08-12-88 21:17 (Read 88 times) from: CURTIS ABRUE to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QB4 Reply to #5956 Well, I guess I'll go with the QB. Frankly I wish I could find someone to do it for me. I can two weeks (at least) down the drain on a QB learning curve. Not my style. I've got so many projects lined up in the next few weeks, months, that it makes no sense to do it. Why me? Thanks for your help. I was hopin' that it came with the interpreter and it was on the disk somewhere, but I guess that life has dealt me another fair, but losing hand. It's 10PM on a Fri nite and I'm at work, working, looking forward to a compu-work weekend...it aint fair. I can hardly wait till I can hire someone. See ya! Curt >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5918 reply #15 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5970 08-13-88 10:27 (Read 92 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: CURTIS ABRUE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QB4 Reply to #5962 Curtis- Welcome to my world! I got so many projects goin' on right now and such a high demand on my time I'm losing concentration sometimes. I have a BIG program due in the middle of next month that will take about three man-months of effort (I'm the only resource). (Not to mention my 9-to-5 job, where I am struggling with another project to get out next week due to poor user planning) It's great to stare at a tube for 8 hours, go home, eat supper, and spend another 5 hours on the PC. Feels good b-tchin' about it tho'- gets rid of the frustration! Take heart- it all works out in the end... -Mark X >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5918 reply #16 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5971 08-13-88 13:02 (Read 91 times) from: JOE VINCENT to: CURTIS ABRUE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QB4 Reply to #5944 Market is psychotic. (You said "discount rate drop"; actually, the discount rate has increased in two successive half-point increases by the Fed.) I'm on record as having predicted an increase in interest rates after the election (unless something unforeseen happens), but I'm VERY surprised at the inflationary pressure which would comepl the Fed to boost the discount rate twice BEFORE the election! I know this isn't the right place for this topic, so I'll just invite you to drop by Investors to join in the discussion of this and other hot financial topics. See you there. How 'bout them 'Skins? Looking forward to the upcoming NFL season! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5918 reply #17 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5976 08-13-88 19:41 (Read 91 times) from: CURTIS ABRUE to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QB4 Reply to #5970 The biggest prob I have with my lifestyle of work-work-work is I never give myself a break. I like what my friend...she said "I don't live to work, I work to live"...it still hasnt sunk in tho...too much work and not enuf livin'. Curt >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5918 reply #18 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5982 08-13-88 21:45 (Read 91 times) from: TOM FELLER to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QB4 Reply to #5956 If you are looking into a database mgr. I recommend Btrieve. We use it for in our business and it is very solid. It has transaction processing for network safe operation. Btrieve works with any DOS 3.1 or better network or stand alone. And there is a UNIX version. And now a OS/2 version is out. -Tom Feller- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5918 reply #19 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5993 08-14-88 13:44 (Read 95 times) from: JOE VINCENT to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QB4 Reply to #5982 cc: UWM COMPUTING Tom, ditto what you said about Btrieve. I've been using Btrieve since release 3.14 -- over three years -- and have been quite pleased with it. I wrote and marketed the ONLY interface between Btrieve and BetterBASIC, and it's still alive in Europe. Novell -- parent company to SoftCraft/Btrieve -- has a forum on Compu$erve (GO NETWIRE) for Novell stuff, including Btrieve. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5918 reply #20 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5926 08-10-88 23:24 (Read 90 times) from: STEPHEN DINAN to: RON ERDODY (Rcvd) subject: R: DBASE III + APPEND PR Reply to #5014 YOU MAY HAVE AN ANSWER TO THIS BY NOW, BUT HERE IT IS ANYWAY. FIRST, COPY THE FILE YOU WANT TO APPEND AS AN SDF FILE-- THAT IS, WITH NO FIELD LABELS. NEXT, COPY THE STRUCTURE OF THE SAME FILE TO A TEMPORARY FILE. NOW MODIFY THE STRUCTURE OF THAT EMPTY FILE SO THAT ITS FIELD NAMES ARE THE SAME AS THE ONE YOU WANT TO ADD RECORDS TO. YOU MUST NOT CHANGE THE NUMBER OR LOCATION OF THE FIELDS, HOWEVER. NOW APPEND THE SDF COPY OF THE FILE TO BE APPENDED TO THIS TEMPORARY FILE. THE RESULT IS A FILE WHOSE FIELDS ARE COM- PATIBLE WITH THE FILE TO WHICH YOU WANT TO ADD THE DATA. YOU CAN ADD THE DATA, THEREFORE, BY A SIMPLE APPEND. IF THIS IS CONFUSING, CALL ME AT 871-9646 AND I'LL STEP YOU THROUGH IT. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5952 08-12-88 06:23 (Read 79 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: THOMAS ATKINSON (Rcvd) subject: QB RENAME Tom, Thanks, that may do it. I did change command.com to read only. I'll give it a try when I log off and see. Sure hope that fixes it, I've tried everything else! Must have redone the 6 lines of code 100 times and it still won't work! Thanks again. -[Steve]- --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5955 08-12-88 15:40 (Read 83 times) from: LAMONT THOMAS to: ALL subject: IRR ALGORITHM I WOULD LIKE SOME HELP ON A PROGRAM I AM DEVELOPING. DOES ANYONE KNOW OF AN ALGORITHM TH CAN CALCULATE THE INTERNAL RATE OF RETURN. I THANK YOU IN ADVANCE. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5963 08-12-88 21:40 (Read 88 times) from: PAT SHEA to: LAMONT THOMAS (Rcvd) subject: R: IRR ALGORITHM Reply to #5955 Lamont... I've had this for quite some time.... don't know where I got it OR if I ever used it !!!!?? BUT this may give you a starting point. PLZ NOTE..... I don't even remember if the damned thing works or not !!! happyhacking.... /*********************************************************************** * * NAME: * IRR - Internal Rate of Return * * SYNOPSIS: * double irr( best_guess, flows, n ) * double best_guess -- first guess * double *flows -- array of cash flows * int n -- number of periods ian analysis * * DESCRIPTION: * Approximates the interest rate which equates the present * value of cash outflows and inflows; ie, the rate at which * the present value of flows would be 0. * * RETURNS: * net present value of flows as a double precision * floating point number. * *****/ #define MAX_TIMES 30 /* maximum number of iterations to run */ double irr( double best_guess, double *flows, int n ) { register int i, cnt = 0; double zero; /* solution should approach 0.00 and will */ double high, low; /* converge within these defined limits */ int p; double div; high = ( best_guess > 0.0 ) ? best_guess + 1.0 : 1.0; low = ( best_guess <= 1.0 ) ? best_guess - 1.0 : 0.0; do { i = n; zero = 0.0; while ( i-- ) { div = 1.0; for ( p = i; p; p-- ) { div *= ( 1.0 + best_guess ); } zero += flows[i] / div; } if ( zero > 0.0 ) { low = best_guess; } else { high = best_guess; } best_guess = ( high - low )/2.0 + low; ++ cnt; } while ( cnt < MAX_TIMES && zero != 0.0 ); return( best_guess ); } >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5955 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5983 08-13-88 21:52 (Read 88 times) from: TOM FELLER to: LAMONT THOMAS (Rcvd) subject: R: IRR ALGORITHM Reply to #5955 I recall a way to do that from 3rd sem calc. However, I think that was for compound interest. I am a math major, not a business major. If you describe how to calculate a internal rate of return in a specific case I will give you the general solution. -Tom Feller- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5955 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6011 08-16-88 09:49 (Read 116 times) from: LAMONT THOMAS to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: IRR ALGORITHM Reply to #5983 0 = summation from n=0 to N NCF(n) ------ (1+r)^n where n = each year of the period N = number of year NCF(n) = net cash flow in year n r = internal rate of return example ASSUME THE FOLLOW NET CASH FLOW NCF(0) = -1000 (REPRESENTS CASH OUT FLOW) NCF(1) = 400 (REPRESENTS CASH IN FLOW) NCF(2) = 425 NCF(3) = 515 IN THIS CASH THE INTERNAL RATE OF RETURN WOULD BE 15.45%. THIS IS A EXAMPLE I GOT OUT OF A BOOK. I HOPE IT WILLPROVIDE YOU WITH ENOUGH INFORMATION SO THAT YOU MAY HELP ME. ONCE AGAIN THANK YOU. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5955 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6118 09-04-88 19:06 (Read 96 times) from: BENTLY TURNER to: LAMONT THOMAS (Rcvd) subject: R: R: IRR ALGORITHM Reply to #6011 Are you the Lamont Thomas of MIAA and Wisconsin Bell....If so, glad to run into on a PC Bulletin Board...What's been up lately? Call or leave me an Email here on in Private Board. Bently >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5955 reply #4 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5959 08-12-88 20:10 (Read 80 times) from: DAN BUDIAC to: ALL subject: BASIC I would like to know if it is possible to write memory resident (TSR) or Microsoft Windows applications using QuickBASIC 4.0. I have heard that this is possible using C, but I don't have the money yet to buy a compiler. Any input on the subject would be very much appreciated. Also, I have a question in regard to the Shareware concept. I am currently writing a program called FEUDAL, a strategic game based upon the board game by Mi nisoda Mining & Mfg. in 1973. I have no idea if the company is even around. If I were to put this program into the public domain, would I be violating the copy rights of the company? Would it be sufficient to just put a notice of the copyright in the program and documentation? -Dan Budiac --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5966 08-13-88 04:36 (Read 84 times) from: CHARLES PERRIN to: DAN BUDIAC (Rcvd) subject: R: BASIC Reply to #5959 TSR's, YES; Don't know about Windows application. If you mean "Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing", they are most definitely around and would NOT like having the name copied. The concept is another thing.... "Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing" should change their name to "3M" or "Scotch" (after the tape.....) as people sort of gag on the long name.... Although "Scotch" is sort of generic now.... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5959 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5981 08-13-88 21:39 (Read 87 times) from: TOM FELLER to: DAN BUDIAC (Rcvd) subject: R: BASIC Reply to #5959 Yea, 3M is still around! Do you by tape, recording or otherwise? I have the Feudal game and I used to play it years ago. Does your game have the computer as one or more of the players? You may be able to get a agreement from 3M. Maybe 20% of your profits after your first $25,000 or something. If you had a legit game I would buy it. It makes chess look almost easy. -Tom Feller- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5959 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5990 08-14-88 09:49 (Read 90 times) from: DAN BUDIAC to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: BASIC Reply to #5981 Whoa! I was only writing the program for the heck of it! I don't think I'll go commercial on it or anything. $25000? I wish! Sorry if I gave the wrong impression or anything. Thanks -Dan Budiac >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5959 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5999 08-14-88 15:31 (Read 92 times) from: TIM NESHAM to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: BASIC Reply to #5981 Chess easy, Tom? Is that why you gave up on beating Psion? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5959 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6009 08-15-88 19:19 (Read 106 times) from: TOM FELLER to: TIM NESHAM (Rcvd) subject: R: R: BASIC Reply to #5999 Did you ever play Feudal? Chess is hard but its very hard to figure out how to defend against a opponent that will move all his or her pieces in the next move. Thats Feudal! -Tom Feller- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5959 reply #5 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6010 08-16-88 08:12 (Read 102 times) from: TIM NESHAM to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: BASIC Reply to #6009 As long as a fist fight doesn't break out I'll give it a shot. Too bad this board doesn't have some sort of multi-player game. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5959 reply #6 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5960 08-12-88 20:19 (Read 81 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: THOMAS ATKINSON (Rcvd) subject: QB RENAME Tom, Tried changing the attributes on command.com and even copied a copy of it to the same directory as the QB program and it still didn't rename the file. Any other ideas? This is getting to me! -[Steve]- --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5964 08-12-88 21:47 (Read 83 times) from: THOMAS ATKINSON to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: QB RENAME Reply to #5960 QB3 right ? I have it and the name "?" as "?" worked without flaw. How about a fresh unpatched copy of QB ? Try to get as vanilla as possible. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5960 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5965 08-12-88 22:28 (Read 83 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: THOMAS ATKINSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QB RENAME Reply to #5964 Tom, No, first upgrade of QB 4.0, whatever they call it. Not patched unless it was done by Microsoft. I'll try to refresh the files and see waht happens. In case I didn't mention it, someone suggested tryiny the routine as a stand alone routine. I did and it worked. But from my program nothing happens. I really appreciate the reply. Thanks... -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5960 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5973 08-13-88 14:09 (Read 83 times) from: PHIL HILL to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QB RENAME Reply to #5965 Steve, This is really a long shot, but probably worth mentioning. I once had a "bug" that defied all explanations. In desperation, I had re-typed the entire source file (not really expecting anything different). After recovering from the shock of seeing the program execute flawlessly, I examined the original source file with Norton and found an imbedded control character that had been keeping the entire line from compiling. Don't remember what it was (possibly an ascii 0 or 1), but it hadn't even shown up in my editor. As I said, a long shot - but it might be worth checking. PH >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5960 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5984 08-13-88 22:58 (Read 87 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: PHIL HILL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QB RENAME Reply to #5973 Phil, funny you should mention retyping the entire source! That may be exactly what I have to do! I think I have figured out the problem, but NOW I have a real problem. I saved the source last night before I went to bed and this morning when I tried to load it I got a "bad file mode" error and the thing won't load. The previous version is two weeks and many changes old. Ever try to remember what you did two weeks ago? I can't remember yesterday real well! Anyway, at this point, my rename problem is not too important 'till I can get to the point where I started using it. Don't have any idea what a guy can do with a bad file mode, do you? Thanks for the tip, I'll have a look for it when I get the source reconstructed. -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5960 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5994 08-14-88 15:04 (Read 88 times) from: PHIL HILL to: STEVE MCCRYSTAL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QB RENAME Reply to #5984 If you saved the file in ascii format you should be able to fix it up with another editor, but if it was "quick load"... (shrug). I know the feeling. I had a similar experience a couple of years ago. Since then I've been driven by a sort of paranoia to back up my code several times a day. PH >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5960 reply #5 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6002 08-14-88 20:13 (Read 102 times) from: STEVE MCCRYSTAL to: PHIL HILL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QB RENAME Reply to #5994 Phil, It was a "Quick Load"! I should be able to fix it up in a couple of days, IF I don't do anything else! Oh, well, they do tell you to backup often. I just ASSUMED they meant the drive, not the files. But you can bet that I will save two copies at least from now on. The only hassle is that QB switches to active the LAST file saved (ASCII vs Quick). Thanks for the reply, that is what I expected... -[Steve]- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5960 reply #6 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5967 08-13-88 09:45 (Read 88 times) from: TIM NESHAM to: ALL subject: QUICKC I am having a problem with QuickC. I cannot get it to compile without including a header file that is not asked for!? It wouldn't be so bad but QuickC says there is an error in the header file. The header file comes from Blaise and looks fine and QuickC is out to lunch! I'm not doing anything major because I can't get past this. I can't believe PC mag likes QuickC over TurboC. Tim --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5979 08-13-88 21:28 (Read 89 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: TIM NESHAM (Rcvd) subject: R: QUICKC Reply to #5967 Tim, mnake sure the environment INCLUDEs are set up right ... and get redundant ... also add the Blaise header file subdirectory to the INCLUDE option in the qc setup menu. Then, get rational. Switch to TC. I find QC impossible to use effectively. TC isd much better and makes more sense to my fingers. Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5967 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5980 08-13-88 21:30 (Read 89 times) from: TOM FELLER to: TIM NESHAM (Rcvd) subject: R: QUICKC Reply to #5967 Blaise has tools for TurboC. I hear that they are very good. Sell the Blaise tools for the Microsoft compiler and get the tools for TurboC. Using QuickC or any other Microsoft C compiler is a very good way to get a major case of the frustrations. The 2.0 version of TurboC has a debugger!! I hope to see it in the next few months. This will cool any objections to TurboC. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5967 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5988 08-14-88 06:34 (Read 90 times) from: CHARLES PERRIN to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QUICKC Reply to #5979 Crummy, condescending documentation and no debugger does not a "PC Magazine Editors' Choice" make.... (although they'll be willing to offer an upgrade to TC 2.0, which allgedly debugs -- for more than the street price of TC 2.0, almost.....) >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5967 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5989 08-14-88 09:33 (Read 93 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: CHARLES PERRIN (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QUICKC Reply to #5988 Charles, I don't get or read PC Magazine. So, some of your reply flies over my head ... whazzis on a TC 2.0??? I have not gotten anythiong from Borland anouncing it, nor have I seen any formal accepted references to it elsewhere. What's the street price on TC 2.0? BTW, I've recently really tried to use some source code debuggers .... I find them worse than useless (including codeview, and watcom's wvideo); however, I will say enthusiastically that the featrures of these debuggers which allow you to set watch points and command-enhanced break points are very well worth having. Thus, if i really need to debug a tC program, I generate ASM and assemble for debug with the MS assembler so I can get a symbol table, then I can use the codeview which came with the assembler. But those circumstances are rare. I usually find that just using plain ordinary DEBUG and the TC exe or com is sufficient ... and, at times, quite fast. So, I ask, why relegate TC to the less-than-sufficient trash heap for want of a formal sdource debugger????? makes no sense! Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5967 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5997 08-14-88 15:19 (Read 94 times) from: TIM NESHAM to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QUICKC Reply to #5979 Grant, Thanks but A: the blaise header files are im the same directory as the MSC files. B: I already have TC but I also have a library of functions that are not porting over to the TC environment. I wanted to do some window stuff with my library. But hey, TC already comes with the capability to do window stuff in their 1.5 ver. So I will try to sell the Blaise library and then flush QuickC. TC is sooooo much easier.... Tim >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5967 reply #5 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5998 08-14-88 15:22 (Read 93 times) from: TIM NESHAM to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QUICKC Reply to #5980 As usual Tom, you're right again. I will post the Blaise library up today. I just wanted it for my windows by I see that TC 1.5 already does windows! At least enough to get me going. Tim >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5967 reply #6 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6000 08-14-88 15:42 (Read 106 times) from: TIM NESHAM to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QUICKC Reply to #5979 Oh, and another thing Grant; was it you who was surprised about hearing about TC 2.0. How about TASM 1.0? Yes Borland is coming out with their own assembler to work with TC and, of course, is better than MASM???? (they say). TC 2.0 will have a fine debugger and better docs. Boy, now I find out or else I would have held out instead of gettin1.5. I'll still pay tho. Lets see here. MSC 5.1 $260. TC 2.0 $99?? Tim >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5967 reply #7 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6005 08-15-88 00:56 (Read 110 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: TIM NESHAM (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QUICKC Reply to #5997 Tim, for A:,,, your problem is baffling ... I had a similar problem when I tried out QC ... and solved it by setting some darn define or lib parameter in the Compile screen options ... but it's been a while and I don't quite remember what I did. Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5967 reply #8 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6006 08-15-88 01:01 (Read 110 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: TIM NESHAM (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QUICKC Reply to #6000 >> ... was it you who was surprised bout hearing (reading) about TC 2.0? Tim, yep, I sure am ... and TASM? REads to be very promissing .... now if Borland can just address their optimization problems ... MSC can take its usurious prices and jump from a high bridge, etc.. TASM may be the icing on the cake, but I hope it is not as insufficient as the TURBO ASM product by ???? which I saw advertised last year and reviewed sometime later. BTW, have you considered SLR's OptAsm --- price seems good. Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 5967 reply #9 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5968 08-13-88 10:19 (Read 85 times) from: BILL LYDON to: ALL subject: DESQVIEW I have been trying to implement the LAP TOP strategy in the DV manual and have gotten no progress. Three calls to Quarterdeck have not resulted in any answers other than "try it again". Has anyone successfully implemented the LAP TOP strategy with version 2.01. I have a NEC MultiSpeed with 2, 720k floppies. I would really appreciate any ideas or suggestions of other resources for information. Thank You. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #5974 08-13-88 17:27 (Read 84 times) from: WES PIKE to: ALL subject: DBASE/GRAPHICS I am currently putting together an electronic catalog for our company using dBASE III+. I am trying to find a way to be able to have a picture of the product be displayed in 1/4 of the screen with the data from the dbase fields displayed around it. A simple line drawing from any "pc-paint" program would be sufficient for our needs. Does anyone have any ideas about how to go about this? I have found a system by Chorus that is commercially available, but if there is an easier way to do it we would rather save the $1000.00 --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6004 08-14-88 21:06 (Read 105 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: CHARLES PERRIN (Rcvd) subject: PORT$ Chas-= remember a couple weeks ago I told you about the PORT$ variable I had in a QB program that kept getting zapped to just the $ ??? (Sort of like the "Cheshire cat," wouldn't you say? Maybe I'll call it the Cheshire Cat Syndrome) It keeps happening, sporadically, even after I changed the variable name to COM.PRT$ !!! So I don't think the problem was that QB was trying to parse PORT$ as P OR T$ and got confused...! Any other suggestions? This is not REAL important- it only happens on occasion, and of course has no effect on compiled code, but it IS confusing and a little annoying! Mark X --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6007 08-15-88 01:51 (Read 103 times) from: PHIL HILL to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd) subject: R: PORT$ Reply to #6004 cc: STEVE MCCRYSTAL Mark, If you're saving the file in "quick load" format, your "lost" variable bug may be related to Steve's damaged file problem. PH >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6004 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6008 08-15-88 07:42 (Read 108 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: PHIL HILL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PORT$ Reply to #6007 No, actually I'm saving in ASCII format so I can print out the source listing with PCTOOLS Deluxe printer. -MX >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6004 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6014 08-16-88 12:45 (Read 118 times) from: TOM PETERS to: ALL subject: C CHARS & STRINGS cc: PHIL KATZ Help! I don't know how to handle strings & chars in C. The fragments below are supposed to search the string line[] from charcter 79 down to number 10, and replace the first space (and only the first) with a newline. I get a syntax error comparing line[n] to a space. I also think I'm missing a semicolon someplace. And how do I jump out when I find my space and replace it? I don't want to replace ALL spaces with newlines. Only the first one I find counting backwards from 79. int dosfn,dosdx,dosal,get_ver=0x30; int dos_ver,dos_maj,dos_min; struct dostime_t time; /*Structure in dos.h to receive time */ struct dosdate_t date; /*Structure in dos.h to receive date */ unsigned myseed=17; register int n; register int r; int limit,readstat,inf_flag=0,test_flag=0,help_flag; /*double max_in=32767.0;*/ /*double scale; */ int max_in=32767; char line[256]; char filespec[256]; char cc; if (strlen(line) > 78) /* Don't bother if line is short */ for (n=78; n-- ; n > 10) if line[n]==' ' line[n] = '\n'; printf("%s",line ); Sorry about the indenting missing; EXEC doesn't like tabs. The printf is supposed to happen after the first space is converted to a newline, or no space was found, or the line was too short to bother. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6016 08-16-88 21:42 (Read 106 times) from: PHIL KATZ to: TOM PETERS (Rcvd) subject: R: C CHARS & STRINGS Reply to #6014 Tom, Well, try something like this: if (strlen(line) > 78) for (n=78; n > 10; n--) if (line[n] == ' ') { line[n]='\n'; break; } That is essentially what you had, with a few changes. One is that you had the expressions in the for statement reversed, and I added the "break" statement which will cause control flow to jump out of the for() loop. >Phil> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6014 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6018 08-17-88 16:47 (Read 98 times) from: TOM PETERS to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: R: R: C CHARS & STRINGS Reply to #6016 Thanks! will try. I just noticed you put your condition for the IF statement in parens. Oh yeah! Knew I forgot something. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6014 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6020 08-17-88 22:10 (Read 101 times) from: JOHN GRANT to: ALL subject: AL STEVENS QUICK C I'm taking a crack at some screen routines in QC with the above book. They seem to compile OK outside the environment, but I get 'Program Too Big For Memory' at runtime at the DOS prompt. Any suggestions? Modify the *.MAK files? Stick with command-line compiles? --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6029 08-18-88 19:47 (Read 101 times) from: TIM NESHAM to: JOHN GRANT (Rcvd) subject: R: AL STEVENS QUICK C Reply to #6020 Just get Turbo C. We use it for 50,000+ line programs. Other suggestions: In the compile menu you can select exe or memory if I recall. Or perhaps you can split up a large function. I know the MSC5.1 compiler cries about functions being too large for the optimization process. Or, speaking of optimizing, turn that off too. You should be able to compile within the environment or your money back! Tim >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6020 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6044 08-19-88 17:05 (Read 107 times) from: PHIL KATZ to: JOHN GRANT (Rcvd) subject: R: AL STEVENS QUICK C Reply to #6020 John, Uh, how much free memory do you have when you try and run this program? How much memory should the program need?? >Phil> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6020 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6054 08-21-88 08:47 (Read 104 times) from: JOHN GRANT to: TIM NESHAM (Rcvd) subject: R: R: AL STEVENS QUICK C Reply to #6029 Thanks for the reply. The book (if you are familiar with it) was supposedly written expressly for Quick C (hence the name) and it represents that the *.MAK files it supplies are supposed to work. I think my problem is with the *.MAK files, not QC. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6020 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6055 08-21-88 08:56 (Read 107 times) from: JOHN GRANT to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: R: R: AL STEVENS QUICK C Reply to #6044 640K. The problem is specific to QC-environment compiles, it works fine from the command line. Also of note: I get an EXEMOD error to the effect of the file size not being the same as stated, or something, when I EXEMOD it. Wanna see a *.MAK file? # # Program: Order # .c.obj: qcl -c -W3 -Gs -Ze -AM $*.c OTHER_OBJS=vpeek.obj order.obj : order.c ordent.obj : ordent.c entry.obj : entry.c qwindow.obj : qwindow.c ibmpc.obj : ibmpc.c qhelp.obj : qhelp.c Order.exe : order.obj ordent.obj entry.obj qwindow.obj \ ibmpc.obj qhelp.obj vpeek.obj del Order.lnk echo order.obj+ >>Order.lnk echo ordent.obj+ >>Order.lnk echo entry.obj+ >>Order.lnk echo qwindow.obj+ >>Order.lnk echo ibmpc.obj+ >>Order.lnk echo qhelp.obj+ >>Order.lnk echo vpeek.obj >>Order.lnk echo Order.exe >>Order.lnk echo Order.map >>Order.lnk link @Order.lnk /NOI $(LDFLAGS); It seems to be occuring during LINK, since I'm using the same (medium memory) object modules produced in the QC environment. The LINK I'm using is v3.65, which did not come with QC, but with v4.0b of QB. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6020 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6060 08-21-88 22:22 (Read 105 times) from: PHIL KATZ to: JOHN GRANT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: AL STEVENS QUICK C Reply to #6055 John, From what I can tell, MSC/QC uses some extensions to the standard .OBJ format that only the MSC/QC/MASM linkers can understand correctly. I would recommend trying one of those linkers if you have one around. Also, I would try manually entering the link parameters in the make file. That redirection trick looks interesting, but maybe your map file is now your exe or something . . . Also, it would probably be easier to collect all the .OBJ files together and put them in one .LIB file. >Phil> >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6020 reply #5 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6064 08-22-88 17:15 (Read 106 times) from: TIM NESHAM to: JOHN GRANT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: AL STEVENS QUICK C Reply to #6054 Emphasis on 'supposed'. See the letter to the August DDJ (Doctor Dobbs Journal) for a good comment on the differences between QuickC and TurboC. Tim >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6020 reply #6 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6067 08-22-88 22:11 (Read 106 times) from: JOHN GRANT to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: R: R: AL STEVENS QUICK C Reply to #6060 Thanks...I hate to fall in love with a development environment then hit ONE snag that forces me back to the command line. Not that I can't navigate there, but if you can't do MOST of your work in the environment, then it's just a big TEASE... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6020 reply #7 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6025 08-18-88 12:15 (Read 98 times) from: DAVID UNTRECHT to: ALL subject: QUICKBASIC 3.0 WINDOWS I recently downloaded a neat little package consisting of window routines and other things that work with Microsoft's Quickbasic. These routines were written by David Evers. However, the routines I have got a hold of only seem to work for Quickbasic version 2.0. I've tried scanning the file section for an updated version but it seems that they have skipped version 3.0 and gone directly to 4.0. The one window routine I did download for version 4.0 was corrupted or something. Anyway I just wanted to know if there were any window routines for Quickbasic 3.0. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6037 08-19-88 06:59 (Read 96 times) from: BOB BLAIR to: DAVID UNTRECHT (Rcvd) subject: R: QUICKBASIC 3.0 WINDOW Reply to #6025 Since I upgraded to QB 4 I haven't any idea any longer what I had for QB 3. Would suggest you pay the fee and go for 4. There is lots available in the shareware market for it. BTW, most of us think it is a better implementation. Bob >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6025 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6026 08-18-88 13:57 (Read 99 times) from: MARK LAW to: ALL subject: DBASE I don't know if anyone can help me but let's try. I need to combine 2 dbase files into one file. I don't mean append on the bottom but rather adding fields to the right of an exsisting data base. Similar to adding columns to the right on 123. If anyone can tell me how to do that you would make my day. --------- thanks MARK --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6027 08-18-88 15:25 (Read 98 times) from: ANDY WHITCROFT to: MARK LAW (Rcvd) subject: R: DBASE Reply to #6026 Dear Mark, If I understand you correctly you want to merge the 2 Db's. I initial impression is to 1) convert both DB's to an ascii dilimited format. 2) then use a wp or programmers editor to append one record to the end of the other DB, continue until all records are joined. 3) create a DB with the field's in the same order as the record. 4) convert back into a DB. Now the only problem with this approach is the combining of the two DB's. Another way to go about this is to whip up a short C or pascal program to automate the process. Being that I do not frequently use DB3, that is my best sggustion. Andy. P.S. One final thought, use same basic approach, but use the DB3 programming language to do the automated processing. Big advantage to that apprach is the NO convertions! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6026 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6040 08-19-88 09:20 (Read 100 times) from: GEORGE KOFMAN to: MARK LAW (Rcvd) subject: R: DBASE Reply to #6026 Mark, I am glad you asked... How much is it worth to you? (just kidding) If you are using a database package (read: dBASEIII+,Clipper,FoxBase,etc.) you should look into the JOIN operation. The exact dBASE syntax is: JOIN WITH <alias> TO <new file> FOR <condition> [FIELDS <field list>]. Provided that you have a common field to join on. Good luck. Let me know how it goes. George M. Kofman. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6026 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6028 08-18-88 18:23 (Read 96 times) from: ALLAN BECKER to: ALL subject: BASRUN.EXE HELLO PROGRAMMERS, I'M FAIRLY NEW HERE, SO PLEASE EXCUSE ANY LACK OF PROTOCOL!! RECENTLY I'VE DOWNLOADED A GENERAL LEDGER PACKAGE FROM THE MAHONEY CATALOG ONLY TO FIND THAT IN ORDER TO SET UP AND RUN THE THING, I NEED BASRUN.EXE. TO SHOW WHAT A ROOKIE I AM, I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THAT IT IS PART OF AN IBM APPLICATIONS PACKAGE. THE GENERAL LEDGER PROGRAM LOOKS NICE AND I THINK I WOULD LIKE TO USE IT RATHER THAN A COUPLE OF THE OTHER ONES, BUT I WILL HAVE TO SCRAP THE IDEA UNLESS I CAN COME UP WITH BASERUN.EXE . CAN ANYONE SUGGEST A SOURCE FOR THIS FILE, OR A WAY OF OBTAINING IT? INCIDENTALLY, DO I NEED IRM ROM BASIC ON MY MACHINE, IF SO I MAY AS WELL ERASE THE GEN. LEDGER FILES RIGHT NOW SINCE MY YANG TECH BOOT ROM (AS WE KNOW) DOES NOT HAVE A TRACE OF IT ON IT'S SILICON ! I AM: ALLAN BECKER 1743 N. CAMBRIDGE, #205 MILWAUKEE, WI 53202 (414) 276-6236 [ ALSO HAVE E MAIL BOX ON THIS BOARD ] THANKS --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6030 08-18-88 19:54 (Read 96 times) from: TIM NESHAM to: ALLAN BECKER subject: R: BASRUN.EXE Reply to #6028 Allan, Anything that needs BASRUN.exe to run a ledger program ain't worth havin'. Did you check into DAC software that makes a program for accounting that contains General Ledger, A/R, A/P, Billing, Inventory, POs and forecasting plus is multi-company, password protected, POS and sells for about $60! AND!!! won Infoworld's product of the year award, PC world class award. Stay away from BASRUN.EXE and catch the wave. BBBBBBBBye...... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6028 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6056 08-21-88 09:07 (Read 101 times) from: JOHN GRANT to: ALLAN BECKER subject: R: BASRUN.EXE Reply to #6028 BASRUN.EXE is an runtime module that is necessary to run some (non-standalone) basic compiled programs. It should have been included in the application if the author could have legally distributed it. You would need to purchase the compiler to get it. As far as what Tim Nesham said about staying away from software that requires BASRUN.EXE, if you like the software, who cares? BTW, DAC packages are (I think) still written in basic (compiled as standalone...i.e. they don't need BASRUN.EXE), so if the bias is against compiled basic applications, I'm a bit confused. Requiring BASRUN.EXE is not that bad. Several applications that use it could share it, thus reducing diskspace needed for those applications if compiled as standalone. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6028 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6031 08-18-88 22:19 (Read 101 times) from: KAREN LITTLE to: NED REITER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #6023 Let's see if I understand your msg. About the new release of Filer and the database change problem. I think I've observed that problem. When you introduce a change in the initial program, you have to trash the database, right? I was only making test entries, but I noticed that when I'd recompile the program, it wouldn't access the .DAT files. I was thinking that could be a real problem if you wanted to make some changes over months of entering. They must be first setting up their BBS. I haven't been able to get into a position where I can upload the code for someone at Clarion to look at. The SYSOP is supposed to give me a clearance or something, but as of yesterday noon, I didn't have it. I never learned Rbase, or payed as much attention to it as I am doing with this program. The InfoWorld review ranked Clarion and Rbase the same. It seems to me that Clarion does more. The manuals could be a bit more helpful -- I think some diagrams about how the programs are built would be a real plus. The latest thing I did was create point & shoot selections for a field. Thrill. Karen --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6038 08-19-88 07:28 (Read 106 times) from: STEPHEN ROSS to: NED REITER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #6024 cc: KAREN LITTLE Ned, I have a feeling that soon I'll be the proud (maybe stupid, but proud) owner of two programmable relational databases, Clarion being my second. I've sent away for the demo, or rather called for it, and they'll include ALL the good reviews of course. And what with you and Karen touting it to me, . . . I can only hold out against so much unfair pressure. Do I need it? No. Do I program for hire? No. Is there any conceivable reason why I would be better off with Clarion? No. Will I get it? Probably. Have to keep my toy up to date. If I have any brains at all -- a point contested hotly by those who know me -- I would content myself with a 286 and no new programs. (I have a Compaq portable, 8088 or 8086.) But I'm saving my pennies for a 386, a super duper laser and, now, Clarion. Computers are, as Phillippe Kahn (Borland) says, just toys. Occasionally they do useful things but primarily they're toys. Fortunately, unlike electric trains, they're tax deductible. Steve >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6031 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6041 08-19-88 10:34 (Read 109 times) from: NED REITER to: KAREN LITTLE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #6031 Yes, if you make a change to the database definition, the new program won't be able to access the file. However, you just run FILER on it and it reformats the database for you. FILER only runs in the Clarion environment right now, but I think the next batch, 2004 (which I order the other day) will have the standalone FILER. You can distribute this with the source for the new database definition and the user can reformat the file himself. The BBS is up, but the sysop must authorize you. It takes about 24 hours after you request access. Try again today. There is a lot of pressure for Clarion to publish information on the .MDL files to allow developers to modify them. Just studying the .MDL files can tell you a lot about how designer creates a program. The sample programs in the tutorial are very good for showing how to design a database and program. Do the PHONES exercise. Even with my 27 years of programming, it really helped me get started with Clarion. It looks like Stephen Ross is going to join the Clarion club RSN. -- Ned -- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6031 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6042 08-19-88 10:37 (Read 108 times) from: NED REITER to: STEPHEN ROSS (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #6038 "He who dies with the most toys, wins." Anon. I think that Karen uploaded the Clarion demo here. It is rather large, however, so you may want to wait for the diskette. -- Ned -- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6031 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6043 08-19-88 15:42 (Read 110 times) from: KAREN LITTLE to: NED REITER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #6041 cc: MARK TELLIER cc: JIM TOIGO Before I go on about Clerion, I'd like to get a reading from Mark Tellier about the level of conversation on one subject he feels comfortable with on this conference. If you get me involved, we could get into some long and pretty constant conversation about Clarion as I am passionately interested in it, and also, this isn't a long distant telephone call. Karen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6031 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6050 08-20-88 08:39 (Read 112 times) from: STEPHEN ROSS to: NED REITER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #6042 Ned, Had already tried downloading Karen's upload -- got 4 CRC errors and couldn't unarc the whole file. But the diskette arrived yesterday. Now, of course, I want Clarion. Looks really slick. But for the moment at least I'll hold off. Primary reason: programming is a hobby and if I get Clarion I'll once again start putting too much time into play and not enough into earning money. Paradox has a Personal Programmer that does at least some of what Clarion does -- except you have to create the data bases and scripts or procedures before you can use it. Essentially it ties it all together and builds menus for you. I don't use it at all because it is incredibly slooooow on my old clunker. And it's nothing like Clarion that seems to do just about everything automatically. I'm jealous. I'll have to get it before I die. If only to be in contention for having the most toys. Steve >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6031 reply #5 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6057 08-21-88 14:00 (Read 105 times) from: MARK WADE to: STEPHEN ROSS (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #6050 STEVE - I'VE GOT AN UNOPENED COPY OF CLARION 2.0 FOR SALE. I'M LOOKING FOR $479 OUT OF IT. I BELIEVE THIS IS THE DEALER COST. IF YOU FIND A LOWER PRICE I'LL BEAT IT BY $10. DON'T WAIT. YOU COULD BE HIT BY A BUS TOMORROW. MARK WADE - 963-0252 >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6031 reply #6 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6061 08-22-88 09:31 (Read 104 times) from: NED REITER to: KAREN LITTLE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #6043 Well, this is the programming conference and discussions about Clarion are about programming. And we might get more people interested in Clarion by our discussions. Wait until you want to link in a routine written in C to your Clarion application. That can get complicated. -- Ned -- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6031 reply #7 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6063 08-22-88 12:39 (Read 107 times) from: KAREN LITTLE to: NED REITER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #6061 If Mark doesn't mind, I have no objections. You can answer my note in Writers about procedures over here. I was up until 2:00 last night trying to figure out the links between procedures, and actually got the thing to work. Clarion appears to be absolutely remarkable. Next thing is to get numbers to automatically increment when I create a record. Next thing is to create links between files. Karen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6031 reply #8 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6071 08-22-88 23:42 (Read 112 times) from: MARK TELLIER (LEADER) to: KAREN LITTLE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #6063 A Clarion discussion is very welcome. The DBase guys (& gals) have good conversations here all the time. If its programming (or somewhat close), we would like to here about it. - mwt - >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6031 reply #9 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6072 08-23-88 08:46 (Read 113 times) from: NED REITER to: KAREN LITTLE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #6063 Glad you got your program running. Don't erase your .DAT files for each new version. Just run the FILER on them and they will be reformatted to the new database layout. As for the files created by Clarion, once you have a working .EXE file, you only need to keep the .APP and the .EXE file. The .CLA file will be needed if you want to run the FILER or debug the program. The .SYM program is needed for the debugger, too. The .PRO file is only needed to run under the PROCESSOR and the .OBJ file is only needed to link. The .BAP files are backups of the .APP files and can be deleted. The auto incrementing field can be done with a single record file that is updated on an entry screen, but use a computed field instead of an entry field. Have fun, -- Ned -- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6031 reply #10 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6081 08-24-88 20:01 (Read 109 times) from: JIM TOIGO to: NED REITER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #6061 Ned--- Another Clarion user!!! I did not think there was anyone else out there but Karen and I. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6031 reply #11 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6082 08-24-88 20:06 (Read 111 times) from: JIM TOIGO to: NED REITER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #6041 Ned-- I got the Clarion BBS number from Karen. Tried to call and it just rang and rang. Is it only online during business hours? Also, is it PC-Pursuitable? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6031 reply #12 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6083 08-24-88 20:43 (Read 110 times) from: JIM TOIGO to: NED REITER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #6072 Ned--- I just checked that number that Karen gave me for the Clarion BBS. It is the customer support number. Please leave me the number of the BBS next time you log on. I'd like to give them a try. Thanks. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6031 reply #13 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6084 08-25-88 09:40 (Read 109 times) from: NED REITER to: JIM TOIGO (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #6083 I helped convince Karen to get Clarion. I gave her a demo at my place and she bought it shortly after. The Clarion BBS is 305-785-9172. I don't know how far you can get without authorization, but the tech support people will take care of that in a day or two, if you ask. I don't know if it is PCPursuitable. Clarion is in Pompano Beach, FL. -- Ned -- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6031 reply #14 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6085 08-25-88 18:36 (Read 108 times) from: JIM TOIGO to: NED REITER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #6084 Thanks a million for the number Ned. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6031 reply #15 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6123 09-06-88 22:19 (Read 100 times) from: KAREN LITTLE to: NED REITER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #6072 cc: JIM TOIGO I didn't work on Clarion for a little over a week, and got back to it two nights ago ... I keep reading the manual. I am a little confused about the relationships between things. I don't even want to ask a question at this point, because the information will overwelm me until I have things sorted out in my mind. A friend of mine just told me about Agenda (which I might get free from Lotus). You can create a series of notes and automatically post them to different projects or people. This seems like something Clarion could handle. Also, in one of their old ads, they show the development of a calendar. Is this something, a unit or module, that can be easily added in? Karen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6031 reply #16 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6124 09-07-88 08:33 (Read 90 times) from: NED REITER to: KAREN LITTLE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #6123 Karen, keep at it. Clarion is very complex and not for the novice, by any means. A calendar could be written in Clarion using a memory table and appropriate indexing when displaying it. I don't know of any calendar LEM, but you could ask on the Clarion BBS. Let us know of your progress on your applications. -- Ned -- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6031 reply #17 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6126 09-07-88 17:13 (Read 94 times) from: KAREN LITTLE to: NED REITER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #6124 As a professional trainer, I like tight summaries. The summaries of Clarion are spread throughout the manual -- what I am trying to do is gather information on what I find confusing. For example ... what can you accomplish in each procedure: form, table, menureport, and ??? (I am not by my notes). So, what I have been doing is reading thru the book and making a list under each of these things. When I get the list complete, I'll post it here and you can see if I captured everything. A PROBLEM I am having ... conceptualizing when a calculated field is posted to a file and when it is not ... Under what conditions are things posted to files ... can it be done from a menu? When I worked with my friend Walter, it was a little difficult to figure out how to link information. My problem is that I am a SLOW learner, and must have tactile impact on whatever I learn. So...hearing someone's voice makes me a little dizzy, and then I get silly. REALLY. I don't retain audio input at all ... it may be connected with the dyslexia that I have. This is one of the reasons I can successfully train people with lower reading comprehension because I have observed how I learn ... with that in mind, I am trying to develop crib sheets that will act as a guide to development. Karen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6031 reply #18 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6127 09-07-88 20:04 (Read 95 times) from: JIM TOIGO to: KAREN LITTLE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #6123 Karen--- I think that the calendar program that you refered to is an example file sent with the Clarion package. Check the "Annotated Examples" manual, page 42 for the listing. These examples can all be loaded onto your PC with the Clarion install program. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6031 reply #19 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6128 09-07-88 20:13 (Read 97 times) from: JIM TOIGO to: KAREN LITTLE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #6126 aren--- I too have found the Clarion manuals a bit taxing. Even usage of the same command can be found in several manuals. Good examples of the use of thecommands are not well documented in the "Examples" manual, and I constantly have a hard time deciding whether a good pointer I read previously was in the "Utilities" or "Language" reference guide. A calulated field will be posted to the file (if it is defined in the file) when the Update is processed. From the Update screen, this is when you go into insert or update mode, complete the entry of the last field on the screen. My wife found the update without a message confusing also, so I modified the .MDL file to insert appropriate messages on the screens when an update is complete. You might also add a "PAUSE" field to your screens to prompt the user to press enter to update or insert the record. Be carefuul how you define your calculated fields, some calulated fields are for display use only on screens and reports. A calculated field can be changed by using an edit procedure after the last field used to calculate the field is entered. I keep all of my edit procedures in the same file and call the desired procedure when needed. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6031 reply #20 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6129 09-08-88 08:49 (Read 98 times) from: NED REITER to: KAREN LITTLE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #6126 Karen, I find the manuals a little confusing too. But it is all there, once you know where to look. I see that Jim has answered most of your questions, so I won't try. I just received batch 2004 yesterday and it has some nice new features such as you can read and update up to 3 secondary files on a form, many of the procedures can now be up to 255 characters of Clarion code or a procedure name and they have now included documentation for the .MDL files. Since you get one free upgrade with the extended support, perhaps we can work something out to avoid getting duplicate batches and we can both stay current. When you get your list done, I will answer any questions that I can for you. -- Ned -- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6031 reply #21 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6131 09-08-88 20:33 (Read 99 times) from: JIM TOIGO to: NED REITER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #6129 Ned--- Is batch 2004 a Clarion upgrade? How did you get it? I did not order extended support, but I think they gave me 3 months or something when I upgraded to version 2. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6031 reply #22 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6132 09-09-88 10:45 (Read 99 times) from: NED REITER to: JIM TOIGO (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #6131 Jim, batch 2004 is the latest release of Clarion. Check your upgrade paperwork, I received the extended support as part of the upgrade. Perhaps it was for 3 months only, now that I think of it. You also get one free upgrade with that. Just call the support number and ask for the latest batch. You may want to wait for 2005, which is nearing release. The upgrade consists of 10 diskettes but no new pages for the manuals. There is an extensive read.me on disk 1, however. Even if you buy the upgrade, it is only about $30. Very reasonable, I think. -- Ned -- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6031 reply #23 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6133 08-09-88 18:53 (Read 92 times) from: JIM TOIGO to: NED REITER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #6132 Ned--- Thanks for the info. How has you Clarion support been? They promised to notify me as soon as the Clarion BBS was up and running. They did not, and I found out from you. Now are you telling me that I was entitled to one free upgrade and did not receive it? If so, my advice to Clarion Software would be that they have a grat product, but poor support and poor customer relations have ruined companies far superior to them! In addition, a PUBLIC message like this on the BEST BBS in the country can go a long way to warn potential buyers to beware of poor support and poor customer relations from a company like CLARION. Maybe a copy of this message belongs on the CLARION BBS in Florida! It may wake them up! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6031 reply #24 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6137 09-12-88 09:07 (Read 83 times) from: NED REITER to: JIM TOIGO (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #6133 Jim, Did you send in the registration card? This should entitle you to a free quality control release. The extended support entitles youto one more free release, I believe. You do not receive these automatically, you must call and request them. I have found the tech support to be excellent. The people that answer the phone are very knowledgeable and I have had no problem getting through. The BBS is also very good for support questions. There are quite a few experienced developers that frequent it and you may get several answers to any question. However, I have found that it is getting quite busy lately. Clarion's support and customer relations is the best I have ever experienced. Their Quality Control Releases usually contain as many new features as they do bug fixes. And there are very few bugs in Clarion. Please give them a call and ask about your upgrade. I am sure you will find them to be extremely pleasant to work with. Let me know what happens. If you find out that your first impression was mistaken, please post a reply here. -- Ned -- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6031 reply #25 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6140 09-12-88 20:40 (Read 84 times) from: KAREN LITTLE to: JIM TOIGO (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #6127 cc: NED REITER cc: WALTER BLANKENSHIP Jim & Ned ... Tonight I am uploading Clar-dvl.ARC which is the outline of one segment of the "library" or paperfile coordination program I am trying to develop. Perhaps if you could look the basic plans over, the three of us could comment on it as it is developed. Purpose of the program: Paper files, such as correspondence, are often interrelated. Unfortunately, if they are filed alpha by company name, you can miss the individuals ... and sometimes individuals you need to correspond with move to different companies. Another problem is when coworkers need to know what each other is doing in a particular area. Traditional filing systems make it difficult to pull. Example: I do work with Milw. County, with individual Departments, to various people on various things. There is no clear filing direction. In addition, we get casual letters announcing proposal dates, etc. We may not wish to respond to proposals, but want to keep the key individual's information on file. Eventually, this database will be linked with other information, such as Call Reports, Photos (the ones WE take), Published Photos, & Misc. Info as reported in newspapers. I invision each file as being a simple sequential storage (I have already developed a similar concept for my paper-based Research File that I will get into Clarion as soon as I understand the language) >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6031 reply #26 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6141 09-12-88 20:44 (Read 82 times) from: KAREN LITTLE to: NED REITER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #6129 I just received a Clarion newsletter and saw something about a BATCH. Does this mean a complete multi-disk new program? Do I have to ask for this? I noticed that after the first FREE one, the updates cost $125 a year? Is this worth it...do they come out with a new one once a month or something? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6031 reply #27 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6145 09-13-88 08:27 (Read 76 times) from: NED REITER to: KAREN LITTLE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #6140 Karen, I will try to look at your CLAR-DVL.ARC later today. -- Ned -- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6031 reply #28 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6146 09-13-88 08:30 (Read 77 times) from: NED REITER to: KAREN LITTLE (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #6141 Karen, Yes, the upgrade is a complete set of diskettes. Batch 2004 is 10 disks. You have to request the upgrade from Clarion. The upgrades cost $29.50 after the first free one. The extended technical support costs $100/year and includes one free upgrade and the technical bulletins as well as the telephone support. New batches average one a month or less and are not mandatory. I plan on upgrading only if I need a feature that they add or a bug fix (which are fewer than the feature additions). -- Ned -- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6031 reply #29 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6161 09-14-88 22:21 (Read 78 times) from: KAREN LITTLE to: NED REITER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #6146 I just set up my files ... the 3 weeks I wasn't involved with Clarion caused a major brain drain. FRUSTRATION! I am trying to do the whole thing in my head ... and want EVERYTHING to be perfect when I create it. I LEARNED one thing --- don't get fancy with the menus, etc., until everything works. So today I could have had fun with my opening menu but REFUSED to get sucked in ... then I was faced with my own lack of skill. Instant depression. 10 disks an upgrade? That sounds like one hell of an upgrade! And the $100 includes automatic mailing of upgrades throughout the year? That seems rather reasonable. ... I get frustrated trying to save a dime. It usually costs much more in time spent. I was supposed to get a FREE program from SoftCraft because I was a beta user ... BUT all the people who sent in their $25 got theirs and *I* really need that program. Tomorrow I am going to order the $25 upgrade and to hell with their best intentions. ... I am frustrated and mildly depressed tonight. Karen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6031 reply #30 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6162 09-14-88 22:38 (Read 78 times) from: JIM TOIGO to: NED REITER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #6137 Ned--- No sooner did I blow my top on this conference about Clarion and I received their newsletter in the mail the following day! I have mailed in the registration card and did not receive my free upgrade. I have not ordered extended support. I too have had good experiences with the technical support staff at Clarion both times that I have called. The gave me some good pointers for working my way through the .APP files and modifying them to suit my application development style. I could not beleive that their BBS requires purchase of their extended support to use it for more than 90 days! I realize that they are in the business to make money, but that is one service that would help promote the popularity of the product. The cost of the Clarion extended support and the upgrades that I have purchased are quite steep. It will not be too long and I will have over $1000 invested in this product. And $120/year to use their bulletin board is a bit much. It will probably be another$100-$200 for their next upgrade to the designer utility, and I predict that their next move will be to a relational type system (probably about $200 for the upgrade), and then another $500 for the OS version in about 2 years. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6031 reply #31 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6166 09-15-88 10:08 (Read 77 times) from: NED REITER to: JIM TOIGO (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #6162 Jim, Hm, I haven't received my bulletin yet. I suspect they may have sent it to my old address. The USPS isn't too reliable at forwarding my mail. The BBS is only part of what you get for $100. The telephone support, bulletins and the free upgrade are also included. Very reasonable for a developer product. I deal with another company that charges me several thousands dollars for tech support and upgrades and doesn't have a bulletin board with message capability. At $100 per year plus say, 3 upgrades, and if you bought Clarion on the street for $600, it would be 2 years before you had $1000 invested. Just one program developed with Clarion for a customer should easily repay that investment. If you are only using it for your personal amusement and amazement, it is a little costly, but then so is DBase when you add a screen generator and compiler. Computers for a hobby is not cheap. -- Ned -- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6031 reply #32 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6168 09-15-88 22:26 (Read 75 times) from: JIM TOIGO to: NED REITER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #6166 Ned--- Clarion has payed for itself many times over. I use it to write programs for my wife's title insurance company. So far I have her using Clarion developed programs for payroll, Accounts receiveable, fileing 1099B forms (last year--the IRS changed the law <again> and I ampresently re-writng the 1099S <which replaced the 1099B>. We also use that program to file 1099 forms for other title companies, banks , etc. in the area at $4.00 per entry. I am just a little frustrated that I was to get one free upgrade and have not received it yet. I called the support center and they said they would look into it. Except for this minor inconvenience, I could not be happier with the company. Didn't mean to leave the wrong impression. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6031 reply #33 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6169 09-16-88 10:04 (Read 75 times) from: NED REITER to: JIM TOIGO (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #6168 Jim, Shortly after I said I hadn't received my bulletin, the mail came and what do you think was there? Yep, the bulletin. I am sure that tech support will take care of your upgrade. If you need a copy of 2004, I can help you out. However, I am in Milwaukee and don't get to Green Bay much. We could transmit it but it would be a long session. -- Ned -- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6031 reply #34 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6172 09-16-88 18:38 (Read 79 times) from: JIM TOIGO to: NED REITER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #6169 Ned-- Guess what was in the mail today? I almost did cartwheels when I saw it. Technical bulletins 100-108, but no diskettes to upgrade me to 2004. I looked through my documentation and my 90 days of free technical support was to include one free upgrade. Still have not received it, but lets give them the benefit of the doubt and a couple weeks to iron things out. I also wish that their BBS was PC-Pursuitable, then it would make it worth the money to use it. I agree that $120 for technical support is not too bad if you do not have $50 / month of phone bills tacked onto it. Maybe they will put their board in Miami or something. Does 2004 upgrade include some documentation on the .APP files? That in itself would be worth the $120. As I said before, the 2 calls I have made to them concerned the .APP files and modifying them to add some messages and special processing. Did you look at Karen's documentation of her proposed program. It did not look like it would be too difficult, with the exception of the keyword scan of the descritions. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6031 reply #35 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6177 09-19-88 08:56 (Read 50 times) from: NED REITER to: JIM TOIGO subject: R: R: MORE ON CLARION Reply to #6172 I haven't seen the technical bulletins yet. Maybe today's mail. 2004 contains documentation of the .MDL files. Enough that you can modify them and add to them easily. I am going to Karen's this morning to get her started up the learning curve. I think that once she gets the basic concepts, she will have no trouble building applications with Designer. -- Ned -- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6031 reply #36 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6032 08-18-88 22:21 (Read 96 times) from: KAREN LITTLE to: NED REITER (Rcvd) subject: NUTS I guess I said "I never payed attention". Let's make that "paid" attention, but I rarely do anyway. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6033 08-18-88 22:38 (Read 93 times) from: TOM FELLER to: LAMONT THOMAS (Rcvd) subject: IRR ALGORITHM Hi, Lamont Sorry I took so long to get back to you on the internal rate of return. This problem does not have a general easy solution. But, a computer can find a approximate solution using a numerical method. The first step is to write the equation out. A computer program could do this from NCF() data. This is needed because the NCF() function is not a actual equation. Then the solution could be found by trial and error. The equation sum NCF(n) n = 0..N ------ = f(x) = 0 (1+r)^n can better be solved by the method of halving the interval. start with x1 = 0.1 = 100% x2 = 0.0 = 0% do { x3 = (x1+x2)/2; if f(x3) of opposite sign to f(x1) set x2 = x3; else set x1 = x3; } while (abs(f(x3)) > ftol x3 is the final value ftol is a tolerance you could use 0.001 This should work if the irr is between 0% and 100% A better way would be to use the Secant method or Newtons method using the derivative of the function. f'(x) = (-n)NCF(n)(1+r)^(-b-1) set x1 = 0.5 or 50% or your best guess do { x2 = x1 - f(x)/f'(x); x1 = x2; } while (abs(f(x1)) > ftol This will require you to get the derivative of the function for all the elements of the summation. The computer program could do all the equation writting and solving given the N value and the NCF(n) values. Given the language, if not COBOL. I could write the function to solve it, for a small fee. -Tom Feller- --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6073 08-23-88 13:01 (Read 103 times) from: LAMONT THOMAS to: TOM FELLER (Rcvd) subject: R: IRR ALGORITHM Reply to #6033 THANKS YOU FOR YOUR HELP. I WILL HAVE TO CHECK WITH MY PARTNER TO SEE IF HOW BADLY WE NEED THIS. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6033 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6034 08-18-88 23:13 (Read 90 times) from: EDWARD MARCH to: ALL subject: EPROM CODE W/ MASM ? Can MASM QUICK-C or TURBO-C be used to burn code to run in eproms ? how are segment areas like code and data handled ? I assume the code (.obj) files are ok just that perhaps a linker with a way to specify absolute address for each segment is needed... any help or suggestion anyone ?? please ? what are the alternatives for software development using a AT-clone to get Code to run in EPROM under a NON-MSDOS system..... I see a lot of $1500 c compilers and assemblers, what about masm and turboc ??? thanks -Ed --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6046 08-19-88 23:28 (Read 96 times) from: ROBERT KUBICHEK to: ALL subject: TPAS-4.0 I AM LOOKING FOR A TP-4.0 UNIT THAT CAN ACCESS THE 16 COLOR MODE OF A T1000, OR ANY WAY TO PRG IT IN TP4. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6047 08-20-88 00:58 (Read 97 times) from: EDWARD MARCH to: ALL subject: NEED DR. DOBBS DEC'87 I am looking for December Of Dr. Dobbs Journal 1987 for an artical about buring eprom's from code produced by turbo-c is the artical worth reading ??? If so i would appreciate a xerox copy of it.... Ill send you some money for postage and copying... also compuserve (i am not a member) has something under borland any info appreciated ---- THANKS MUCH ! -Ed March 1206 s. birch dr. mt. prospect, IL 60056 --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6052 08-20-88 09:54 (Read 105 times) from: JOSEPH NEIBRAND to: ALL subject: DBASE III GRAPHICS I am trying to help a frien with the following problem. He is trying to find a way to include the capability to produce bar, pie or line charts as part of a business analysis program. This program was written in Dbase III and compiled in Clipper. It's purpose is to analyze various business conditions and produce a report(s) on the findings. 1. He is looking for a way to include the ability to produce these graphs from within the program that can be compiled in Clipper. This can be a piece of PD or Shareware that can be licensed. 2. He will also consider a commercial program that will produce these graphs but, the cost of selling a copy of such a program with each copy of the main program may impose some financial as well as "Ease of Use" considerations. If anyone has had any experience with such a capability or may have a suggestion as to "how to go" along with any recommendations for programs (PD or commercial), we would appreciate your input. He wants to graph the results of the analysis and would prefer a line chart. Are there any available programs or libraries that can do this and can they be incorporated into a compiled (Clipper) program? Thanks. Joseph Neibrand --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6062 08-22-88 11:12 (Read 98 times) from: SCOTT KLEINHANS to: JOSEPH NEIBRAND (Rcvd) subject: R: DBASE III GRAPHICS Reply to #6052 Joe ProWorks offers a Graphics library for Clipper it is called Flipper, I have the demo disk, although I have not purchased the Library it looks pretty impressive. You can call ProWorks and they will send you a demo disk, I had mine in less than a week. The price on Flipper is $195.00. ProWorks P.O. Box 1635 Hermiston, Or 97838 (503) 567-1459 If you don't want to wait a week or so let me know and I'll Archive and upload the contents of the demo disk. Scott >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6052 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6066 08-22-88 21:58 (Read 102 times) from: JOSEPH NEIBRAND to: SCOTT KLEINHANS (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DBASE III GRAPHICS Reply to #6062 Scott, Thanks for taking the time to reply. I will pass along this information to the interested party. If he cannot obtain a demo, I will ask you to upload the demo here. Thank you. Joe >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6052 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6053 08-20-88 16:11 (Read 102 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: JOHN HIBSCHER (Rcvd) subject: R: TURBO 4.0 Reply to #6048 John, while I am no longer a regular TP user (I've switched to C as my more regular programming tool), I do have tp 4.0 and have a few large complex modules I've upgraded from TP3.0 to TP4.0. I have had NO problems with the .EXEs ... the programs I upgraded are running just fine. Please be specific about the nature and the manifestations of your problem(s). Maybe I can be of some help. Grant --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6059 08-21-88 20:24 (Read 96 times) from: WES PIKE to: ALL subject: REDIRECT PRINTER OUTPUT Help - I recently took the plunge from C/PM to MS-DOS and need some help. I am trying to redirect printer output to my hard disk. In C/PM it was a simple command - PUT PRINTER TO FILE.XXX - and when you were finished you could redirect back to the printer with - PUT PRINTER TO PRINTER. I have read all that I can find in the MS-DOS manual about pipes, redirection, and modes, but nothing seems to work. Can some- one give me the proper MS-DOS procedure to do this. Is it available in MS-DOS?(I sure hope so!). Thank You, WES --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6076 08-23-88 22:22 (Read 102 times) from: THOMAS ATKINSON to: WES PIKE (Rcvd) subject: R: REDIRECT PRINTER OUTP Reply to #6059 The topic has come up before, i never use them but try a scan in Mahoney for redirect or printer or something on that order. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6059 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6065 08-22-88 20:12 (Read 101 times) from: TOM MCCORMICK to: ALL subject: .C OR TP4 COMM SOURCE? Can anyone recommend a good set of c or tp4 source code as a starting point for my personal use as a modem program. I have done several async programs in other languages. The code should be in the public domain (NOT encumbered). Thank you for your suggestions. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6069 08-22-88 23:19 (Read 102 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: TOM MCCORMICK (Rcvd) subject: R: .C OR TP4 COMM SOURCE Reply to #6065 Tom, I think Pib Burns has a TP4 source file in the Mahoney collection that handles rudimentary communications stuff. You can also get the source to his PIBTERM program. Just scan for PIB. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6065 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6074 08-23-88 20:05 (Read 102 times) from: TOM MCCORMICK to: GLEN THOMPSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: .C OR TP4 COMM SOU Reply to #6069 Thanks for the tip re PIB TP4 source for an async comm pgm, Glen. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6065 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6077 08-23-88 22:25 (Read 101 times) from: THOMAS ATKINSON to: TOM MCCORMICK (Rcvd) subject: R: .C OR TP4 COMM SOURCE Reply to #6065 TP4, ASYNC4U, for both TP4,C and just about anything FOSSIL... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6065 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6079 08-24-88 18:18 (Read 101 times) from: TOM MCCORMICK to: THOMAS ATKINSON (Rcvd) subject: R: R: .C OR TP4 COMM SOU Reply to #6077 Thanks for reply to my msg 6065, Tom. I appreciate the help. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6065 reply #4 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6070 08-22-88 23:23 (Read 106 times) from: MIKE YAKLIN to: ALL subject: PS/2 MODEL 25 Is anyone aware of the model, submodel and BIOS rev values for the model 25? I have in general found the model ID bytes to be a decent way of identifying the type of machine a program is running on, but cannot find what the values are for the Model 25. For those who do not know, Int 15, svc 0ch (i think) returns in ES:BX a pointer to a table of values: byte 1 is usually 8 which is the length of the table, next is a byte identifying the Model (AT, 386, 8088 etc) next is a submodel byte (differentiates a XT/286 from a AT, or a Early 6Mhz AT from a later 8 MHz), next is the Bios Revision level - usually no big difference like a ?.0x software release. Finally a feature byte that indicates different hardware installed. If anyone knows the Model, sub and Bios Rev values for a PS/2 25, I'd appreciate hearing from you. Thanks, Mike --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6075 08-23-88 20:10 (Read 109 times) from: DAN BUDIAC to: ALL subject: C I'm thinking of taking up C, and am wondering what the difference is between Microsoft C and Microsoft QuickC (besides about 8" on the box). No need to push any other compilers; I'm used to the environment of QuickB ASIC. Also, are there any books out on how to program in the MS Windows environment with C or BASIC? ---Dan--- --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6080 08-24-88 19:20 (Read 107 times) from: TIM NESHAM to: DAN BUDIAC (Rcvd) subject: R: C Reply to #6075 Also about $165 and CODEVIEW. And MSC 5.1 works a bit better. A bevy of utilities and 3 nice thick ring binders. Tim >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6075 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6086 08-25-88 19:46 (Read 112 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: DAN BUDIAC (Rcvd) subject: C / BOOKS DAn, Tom Nesham summarized the diff twixt the full MSC 5.1 and QC systems quite nicely. QC can produce code to do the same functions as you could do in the full MSC. Books: I've seen some rather detailed C boks targetted at QC and MSC programmers at the B. Dalton bookstores in my area. The best seem to be those published under the Waite Group label. Check those out for your own use ... they mnay meet your needs. Grant --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6087 08-25-88 20:47 (Read 107 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: ALL subject: QBASIC WATCHPOINT Can anyone tell me why QuickBASIC 4.0 sometimes decides that a variable is UNWATCHABLE ??? I'm speaking of the Alt-D W feature, the Debug Set Watchpoint, which allows you to -BREAK- the program when a specified variable contains a certain value. Most of the time it works, but occasionally (especially when I REALLY NEED TO KNOW WHERE IN THE CODE SOMETHING IS CHANGING), QB comes back with the message "<Not Watchable>" on the watchpoint status line, above the source listing. WHY IS THIS? Does it have anything to do with subprogram usage (CALL SUB) or perhaps the use of the COM port for input and output? I doubt it... Any ideas? -Thank you- Mark. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6088 08-25-88 22:11 (Read 112 times) from: JOHN GRANT to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd) subject: R: QBASIC WATCHPOINT Reply to #6087 Is this peculiar to SUBs and FUNCTIONs? Does it happen to COMMON SHARED variables? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6087 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6089 08-26-88 07:41 (Read 112 times) from: UWM COMPUTING to: JOHN GRANT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QBASIC WATCHPOINT Reply to #6088 Is there an ECHO around here? Thanks, Curly! (Or is it Shemp?) -MX >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6087 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6090 08-26-88 12:39 (Read 115 times) from: RALPH KREIPLE to: UWM COMPUTING (Rcvd) subject: R: R: QBASIC WATCHPOINT Reply to #6089 I believe that variables are unwatchable if they are in subroutines, check the section on Debugging, I'm sure I saw something to that effect. Ralph >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6087 reply #3 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6091 08-26-88 22:10 (Read 112 times) from: DAN BUDIAC to: ALL subject: QUICKBASIC 4 Does anyone know how to read and reset the archive bit on a file using QuickBASIC 4.0? --Dan-- --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6092 08-27-88 07:16 (Read 108 times) from: PHIL HILL to: DAN BUDIAC (Rcvd) subject: R: QUICKBASIC 4 Reply to #6091 Dan, You can do it with the example under CALL INTERRUPT on p. 90-91 of the QB4 manual, except: 1) Change &HFD to &HDF, and change &H2 to &H20 2) Fix the misprint by changing OutRegs.cx to OutRegs.ax on the right side of the same lines. The new lines should read: IF Action$ = "U" THEN InRegs.cx = OutRegs.ax AND &HDF ' archive bit off ELSE InRegs.cx = OutRegs.ax OR &H20 ' archive bit on END IF Note, of course, that "H" and "U" take on new meanings. Phil Hill >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6091 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6093 08-28-88 03:50 (Read 123 times) from: STEPHEN ROSS to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: PLEASE WRITE THIS Phil, Gabe Ceci and I were Bullroaring in Writers and came up with an idea that someone will make a fortune on. It might as well be you. It catalogues files automatically as you write them. Name, type, maybe first few lines if a WP program, or title from a spreadsheet, etc. Keeps track of everything. We were fooling around about autmatic back-up, so if you can write it so it actually copies itself to a floppy, automatically ejecting full floppies and replacing with new ones, that would be great. However ... Even without the impossible, why not the possible? All the cataloguing programs that I'm aware of require the user to do something. Why not one that does it automatically. Perhaps even a pop-up window after each file is closed allowing a comment or key word entries by the user? As Gabe said, it'd make millions. Steve --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6098 08-30-88 21:59 (Read 104 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: STEPHEN ROSS (Rcvd) subject: R: PLEASE WRITE THIS Reply to #6093 I think the shareware/PD program WHAT(IS)(WHATDIR?) already does most of this. Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6093 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6100 08-30-88 23:35 (Read 106 times) from: PHIL KATZ to: STEPHEN ROSS (Rcvd) subject: R: PLEASE WRITE THIS Reply to #6093 Stephen, Uh, sounds excellent to me. I think I'll have some spare time between 10:17pm and 10:42pm this Saturday, so I'll see if I can whip something up. >Phil> P.S. Oh yeah, would it have to work under OS/2 too? >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6093 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6101 08-31-88 06:34 (Read 106 times) from: STEPHEN ROSS to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PLEASE WRITE THIS Reply to #6098 Automatically creates a log of new files? If it pops up for a comment I want it. Thanks. Even if it doesn't pop up it might be what I'm describing. Steve >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6093 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6102 08-31-88 06:42 (Read 103 times) from: STEPHEN ROSS to: PHIL KATZ (Rcvd) subject: R: R: PLEASE WRITE THIS Reply to #6100 Phil, If I'd known it would take you so long (15 min) I never would have suggested it. As you know *I* don't know beans about real programming, but would it really be so hard? Couldn't a program monitor what's happening and whenever a file was closed, it would go into action? And the pop-up would close instantly if a CR was the first entry so you wouldn't have to do anything with al the saves while working? Seems quite simple to me. So simple, in fact, that I'll leave it to you. Steve >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6093 reply #4 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6094 08-28-88 16:51 (Read 111 times) from: PASCAL ROY to: ALL subject: QUICKSILVER PROGRAMERS We have just purchased the source code of CAN (Customer And Notes), and we are looking for improvements of this program written in QUICKSILVER 1.2 (version 1.1 OK). We have a wish list which will be sent upon request to anyone interested to do the programing for us. (requires at list 10 to 15 hours of programing). If you are interested, please leave me a message on EXECPC, write to : SAINT ANDRE INTERNATIONAL, 1431 Broadway, 4th Floor. NEW YORK, NY 10018, or call (business hours only) : (212) 840-1170. This is relatively urgent. Pascal Roy / Saint Andre International. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6095 08-29-88 08:22 (Read 109 times) from: LOWELL DENNING to: ALL subject: CLARION You guys have done it to me again. Every time I listen to all the stories about a new software package I can't stay away from it. After listening to everything about Clarion I could not stand it any more. I ordered it this morning and can't wait to get it. Programmer's Connection in Ohio has it for $595 including free shipping. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6097 08-30-88 19:21 (Read 102 times) from: JIM TOIGO to: LOWELL DENNING (Rcvd) subject: R: CLARION Reply to #6095 I think you'll be very suprised by Clarion and that it will become a favorite tool in your arsenal. We are developing mainframe applications at work right now using DB2 database and AS for an application generator and I have yet to find a mainframe package that has all the bells and whistles that Clarion does. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6095 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6103 08-31-88 19:55 (Read 100 times) from: LOWELL DENNING to: JIM TOIGO (Rcvd) subject: R: R: CLARION Reply to #6097 Jim, It arrived today and my mouth is already watering at the prospects that this software can give me in developing applications. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6095 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6105 08-31-88 20:33 (Read 103 times) from: JIM TOIGO to: LOWELL DENNING (Rcvd) subject: R: R: CLARION Reply to #6103 Be careful not to dribble on your keyboard <grin>. Also be sure to work through the practice exercise, as it will help a lot. If you want to get into designer, I can upload an .APP file for you to take a look at. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6095 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6107 08-31-88 23:22 (Read 102 times) from: LOWELL DENNING to: JIM TOIGO (Rcvd) subject: R: R: CLARION Reply to #6105 Jim, That would be great. It would definitely help Thank you, Lowell >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6095 reply #4 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6096 08-30-88 18:11 (Read 108 times) from: LOWELL DENNING to: ALL subject: TURBO C 2.0 & PASCAL 5.0 Anyone interested in upgrading to Turbo C 2.0 and Pascal 5.0 with Turbo Debugger 1.0 and Turbo Assembler 1.0 can now call Borland to upgrade. They are expected to ship around Oct. 1. For everything, it's $149.95 plus $5 S&H. For just one or the other it's $99.95 plus $5 or $49.95 for just the C or Pascal with no standalone debugger or assembler. Both do now have integrated modest debuggers built in. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6099 08-30-88 22:01 (Read 108 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: LOWELL DENNING (Rcvd) subject: R: TURBO C 2.0 & PASCAL Reply to #6096 Lowell, clarify please ... is that $$$ cost to upgrade or cost to start at square one!??? Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6096 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6104 08-31-88 19:59 (Read 110 times) from: LOWELL DENNING to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: TURBO C 2.0 & PASC Reply to #6099 Grant, Those are the upgrade prices. The retail prices are $149.95 each for C or Pascal. $149.95 for the debugger and assembler together, or $249.95 for one language, the assembler and the debugger. Those prices caught up to Microsoft in a big hurry didn't they! Borland's order desk is taking the upgrade orders right now, but they are insistent that there is no firm release date yet. Lowell Silver Spring, MD >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6096 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6106 08-31-88 21:30 (Read 110 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: LOWELL DENNING (Rcvd) subject: R: R: TURBO C 2.0 & PASC Reply to #6104 OUCH! Maybe we should switch to MIX! Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6096 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6108 08-31-88 23:26 (Read 113 times) from: LOWELL DENNING to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: TURBO C 2.0 & PASC Reply to #6106 Borland sure has seemed to abandoned that "famous" strategy by attracting business through attractive prices. Turbo C for $100 list plus the $40 upgrade to 1.5 and now the $100 upgrade to the 2.0 with a debugger that many compilers have already included leaves one at $240. Not exactly like the Borland good old days!! >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6096 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6111 09-02-88 20:31 (Read 109 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: LOWELL DENNING (Rcvd) subject: R: R: TURBO C 2.0 & PASC Reply to #6108 Yep, Lowell, I agree --- Borland seems to have abandoned the real low $$$ market. However, I do note: Borland List + Upgrade < Watcom C 6.5 (Street) < MSC5.1 (Street) $100 $100 + $ 40 $265 $295 and, if you purchased TC1.0 at street ($64 - $68), it is even less by comparison. Now, if the alleged optimization improvements approach MSC 5.1 or WC 6.5 AND the compile time is still in the neighborhood of what we see in TC1.5 .... Borland's C is still a bargain ... albeit a little less of a bargain. If WatcomC development environment wass any bettter than the rubbish it is, right now, I'd say WC6.5 was the best choice for a professional development kit --- pending what we see from Borland on TC 2.0. Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6096 reply #5 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6109 09-01-88 19:13 (Read 109 times) from: JOHN GRANT to: ALL subject: FIELD & SCREEN is now online 24hrs at 414-529-9690... --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6110 09-02-88 19:47 (Read 104 times) from: JOHN GRANT to: ALL subject: FIELD & SCREEN is alive and well and online 24hrs...414-529-9690. A BBS for dBASE and your favorite compiler. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6112 09-03-88 21:42 (Read 93 times) from: JIM TOIGO to: KAREN LITTLE (Rcvd) subject: CLARION AGAIN Karen--- Haven't heard too much from you RE: CLARION. How goes it? --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6113 09-03-88 22:08 (Read 96 times) from: DEAN ROTH to: ALL subject: SAS C SAS (publishers of Statistical Analysis Software - thus "SAS", and a C compiler for IBM mainframes) has annouced: SAS C Compiler - Student Edition According to the new products blurb in "The C Users Journal", the compiler is a full-function C compiler for MS-DOS and a comprehensive C tutorial. That's about all I know about it, other than price and address: $29.00 Book Sales Department SAS Institute, Inc. Box 8000 Cary, NC 27512-8000 (919)467-8000 -Dean --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6116 09-04-88 08:16 (Read 102 times) from: PAT SHEA to: DEAN ROTH (Rcvd) subject: R: SAS C Reply to #6113 Dean, just as a FYI: SAS Institute owns Lattice, Inc. of C compiler fame. They bought 'em a couple of years, ago. happyhacking, pats... >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6113 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6119 09-04-88 23:42 (Read 100 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: DEAN ROTH (Rcvd) subject: R: SAS C Reply to #6113 Dean, since SAS originally exported Lattice C (don't know which release was the baseline) to the IBM Mainframe (and made a big broohaha about it), is it possible that this student edition is a retrofit of the original Lattice C as exported(retrofitted/re-engineered) to the Mainframe? Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6113 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6120 09-05-88 18:21 (Read 99 times) from: DEAN ROTH to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: SAS C Reply to #6119 The brief description of the SAS "student edition" C compiler also mentions the "main features": (and I quote from Sept./Oct. 1988 "The C Users Journal" without permission) "Main features are a "load-and-go" compiler that works entirely in memory without creating an external executable file;"... No mention is made of the ability to create an executable file. I suspect SAS would encourage one to purchase the "regular" compiler for that. But maybe it will create executable files. For those looking for a low cost compiler: There are other *cheap* C compilers. When selecting a compiler, one should consider more than cost, especially if the compiler will be used for more than "basement tinkering". This could become a long article, so I will quit here. But if anyone needs help selecting a compiler, I and others will be happy to provide guidelines. -Dean >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6113 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6154 09-13-88 23:27 (Read 79 times) from: DAVE KOCOL to: DEAN ROTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: SAS C Reply to #6120 Dean, I would very much be interested to hear your views on c compilers, and what you think of Turbo Pascal. Thanks, Dave >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6113 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6157 09-14-88 19:04 (Read 74 times) from: DEAN ROTH to: DAVE KOCOL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: SAS C Reply to #6154 RE: My opinions on C compilers and Turbo Pascal Well, that's a wide open question. Do you have more specific questions? Do you mean DOS, UNIX or all C compilers? Are you asking for a DOS C compiler recommendation? I need to know more of what you are thinking, otherwise anything I say can be miscontrued. The same for Turbo Pascal. In what context are you looking for opinions? Are you in the position of selecting C or Pascal as the development language for an organization/project, thinking of learning one of the languages for at home tinkering, or what? FYI: I've used C compilers under MS-DOS, UNIX (BSD, SunOS, Xenix), AOS, VMS, and probably another OS I've forgotten. Every C compiler I've met has been broken in some manner. It's my development language of choice - but before anyone says anything, you also have to know in what environments I work and the type of software that is created. (The only other "real" option is assembler.) I used Turbo Pascal three years ago for six months, and cannot say I have any fond memories of that time. -Dean >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6113 reply #5 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6163 09-14-88 23:46 (Read 75 times) from: DAVE KOCOL to: DEAN ROTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: SAS C Reply to #6157 Dean, Yes, I'm in DOS. I obtained a cheap copy of Turbo Pascal, and have been playing with it. I know that C is an up and coming (in fact, it's here and now), and would like to go to C, running on my PC. I've heard about Turbo C, MS C, etc... This would be minor projects in the home and workplace, with lots of I/O. Is that a little clearer? Thanks for responding, and the advice! Dave >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6113 reply #6 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6167 09-15-88 21:08 (Read 74 times) from: DEAN ROTH to: DAVE KOCOL (Rcvd) subject: R: R: SAS C Reply to #6163 RE: C and (Turbo) Pascal The low cost DOS C compiler chosen by 9 of 10 programmers stranded on a deserted island is Turbo C. I have not used it, so I cannot say anything about it. Others have said a lot about it in this conference, though. I have QuickC. It came with my MS C "optimizing" compiler. I don't like it - too restrictive for me. Maybe I should retry it since I now have a mouse. BTW: someday real-soon-now, I will report on the Sun 386i as a DOS development system. The machine uses a 3.5" drive, and my PC does not. I installed a 5.25" drive, and it will not read 360KB disks. So, I cannot yet transfer my DOS software to the Sun. But I'll find a way real-soon-now. You want to have "real fun"(tm)? Try programming Sun windows. They are fantastic when they work. But the manuals leave MUCH to be desired. -Dean >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6113 reply #7 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6114 09-03-88 22:54 (Read 96 times) from: MICHEALLE LESKANIC to: MICHAEL BERA (Rcvd) subject: R: QUICKBASIC 4 .EXE Reply to #5135 I am not sure if this has a connection but QB4 is notorios for generating strange link options when creating .EXE's inside the environment. It places all the user libraries in the .EXE instead of just the refrenced SUBS/FUNCTIONS. This problem is corrected in release 4.00b. MS was very cooperative with me when I upgraded. The 4.00b version also implements several new commands: SLEEP - pauses for certain amount of time or until keypressed or an event happens. Also implemented is user-defined events. I haven't quite figured them out - the documentation is kind-of fuzzy. Good luck, Michealle Leskanic --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6115 09-04-88 00:29 (Read 98 times) from: MICHEALLE LESKANIC to: MICHAEL BERA (Rcvd) subject: QUICKBASIC 4.0 Mike, Upon reflection of your original message, one experience comes to mind. I have found that if you use an UNDECLARED string variable ( i.e a string that is not declared with a DIM statement ) in an OPEN statement may causes unpredictable results, but only when the offending string is in a SUB...END SUB block. In my situation, I was attempting to open a COM port and was issued the infamous 'String space corrupt' message. When I talked to MS they said there was a problem with several string manipulation routines in QB 4.00, but they have been corrected in QB 4.00b. Although the problems we both encountered seem to be only slightly simmilar, possibly the offending routines in 4.00 are to blame in your case also. I would try declaring the strings you use to OPEN the files ( if they aren't already declare ) and see if your problem goes away. If not all you have to do is call MS and request an upgrade. It was free in my case ( going from 4.00 to 4.00b ) and I don't see why you should not be entitled to the new version free of charge also. Hope this helps, Michealle. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6125 09-07-88 16:03 (Read 87 times) from: MICHAEL BERA to: MICHEALLE LESKANIC (Rcvd) subject: R: QUICKBASIC 4.0 Reply to #6115 Michealle, I have just received my upgrade copy of QuickBASIC 4.00b, but have not had an opportunity to see if solves my problem. You said MicroSoft was cooperative about sending you the upgrade, but they were not as nice to me. When I described my problem to MS representative, he responded that the compiler was not at fault and the upgrade would not fix it. So I had to call back a second time to get a different representative, who was very willing to send me the upgrade. (Which was delivered in about 8 weeks.) I will let you know if the upgrade fixes my problem. Thanks for you tips. *MB* >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6115 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6117 09-04-88 18:09 (Read 102 times) from: DON SINK to: ALL subject: JOBS --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6121 09-05-88 21:47 (Read 98 times) from: JOHN GRANT to: ALL subject: FIELD & SCREEN BBS Dedicated to dBASE and your favorite database compiler. 24 hrs! (414) 529-9690. FREE! No upload requirements! --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6122 09-05-88 22:52 (Read 97 times) from: DOUGLAS HAY to: ALL subject: EGA 43 LINE CURSOR I am currently using turbo C, ver 1.5. When I change into the EGA 43 line mode, the cursor disappears. I try to turn it on, but can only get a block cursor. The support group at borland told me it is turned on the same way in 43 line mode as in 25 line mode, but that doesn't work. Any suggestions would be appreciated. ..DH.. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6130 09-08-88 18:46 (Read 94 times) from: JOHN GRANT to: ALL subject: FIELD & SCREEN BBS ----------------------------------------------------------------- Dedicated to dBASE, clones, and your favorite database compiler. 24 hrs! (414) 529-9690. No fees, no upload requirements. ----------------------------------------------------------------- --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6134 09-11-88 16:54 (Read 80 times) from: LOWELL DENNING to: ALL subject: CLARION I have had a problem. When going through my initial run-through of the Clarion start-up guide, I finished the phone list program and was following the directions to put in the locator field when I ran into trouble. When I follow the directions exactly and move the cursor to where the field is supposed to be, I press Ctl-F and then get a field definition screen that differs from the one in the manual. I select "locator" field but the window that then pops up is not the same one in the manual. Customer support was called on Friday and did not call me back. Any ideas? --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6138 09-12-88 09:12 (Read 82 times) from: NED REITER to: LOWELL DENNING (Rcvd) subject: R: CLARION Reply to #6134 Lowell, I suspect you have Batch 2004. The definition of locator and selector fields has been changed significantly. The selector is now specified in the table definition window and the locator works differently. Just go ahead and specify the locator field ( use the F1 help key ) and see what it does. Also see the read.me file from disk 1. It contains description of the changes made since the manuals were printed. -- Ned -- >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6134 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6136 09-11-88 21:41 (Read 78 times) from: JOHN GRANT to: ALL subject: FIELD & SCREEN BBS Dedicated to dBASE, clones, and your favorite database compiler. 24 hrs! (414) 529-9690. No fees, no upload requirements. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6142 09-12-88 21:01 (Read 81 times) from: BRUCE SHERMAN to: ALL subject: BAD ALLOCATION TABLE For the first time, my computer system is giving a message of Bad Allocation Table -- Drive D. This has occurred only when a Turbopascal program I have written, creates several hundred records on disk using the Turbopascal toolbox (version 3)/. Other than this situation, the disk drive seems fine. What should I do to correct the "Bad Allocation Table?" --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6143 09-12-88 21:06 (Read 83 times) from: ELLEN FULLER to: ALL subject: DBASE FILES FOR MS C 5.1 I am interested in evaluating some packages for my newly purchased MS C 5.1 compiler which will enable me to read/write dBASE III+ files and indexes (NTXs for Clipper). Can anyone tell me which ones on this EXEC PC might be good? Also, does anyone know from where I could evaluate an IBM PC or XT or compatible with monochrome for under $300-400? Must be 640K and would be nice to have a hard disk. Probably will look at used. Looking for NY,NJ,PA or DE area so that I could diag it to my content but will consider other areas. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6144 09-13-88 07:30 (Read 77 times) from: JOHN GRANT to: ELLEN FULLER (Rcvd) subject: R: DBASE FILES FOR MS C Reply to #6143 Most indexed file or btree libraries do not use dBASE standards for file or index structure (nor Clipper's). Since most implementations of C have been around before dBASE, a lot of other indexing schemes have evolved parallel to, but separate from the 'dBASE standard.' What is your interest in being able to read/write them from C? Most people using it break from dBASE cold turkey if they ever used it at all. Several good packages exist for indexing in C. Check PC mags for programmer-oriented mail order houses. I could also recommend a good book called 'C Database Development' by Al Stevens. Good luck with C. I am a die-hard dBASE user trying to make the switch, too. I would welcome you to an other BBS here in Milwaukee called Field & Screen, which focuses on database development. It is Pc-Pursuitable and can be reached 24 hours a day at 414-529-9690. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6143 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6148 09-13-88 17:32 (Read 74 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: ELLEN FULLER (Rcvd) subject: R: DBASE FILES FOR MS C Reply to #6143 Ellen, I've seen some ads for commercial c add-on libs which provide access to , and maybe creation of, DB-III+ files in DDJ, CL, PCTJ. I don't remember the names -- one, i think, approximated "dbTrieve" or something like that. BTW, usijng a book published by ASTON-Tate called The DBASE Technical Reference/Programmer's Guide, you could easily write some code to access the files , using the db3+ indexes ---- the file structures are documented in detail in that book. I figured out the file formats 3 years ago without the book and was able to write some TP3.0 code to access db2 and db3 files concurrently in about 12 hrs. C-ocode may be as quick to produce. Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6143 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6150 09-13-88 22:16 (Read 76 times) from: ELLEN FULLER to: JOHN GRANT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DBASE FILES FOR MS Reply to #6144 Thanks for the information that parallel efforts have been developed to handle the same appllications as dBASE has. I am also a die-hard dBASE user (really Clipper and others) and make my living from it. I wish to get into systems stuff, you know, and hoped that a bridge for learning as well as for money making could be utilized with such a package. I will try the Field and Screen. What is its relationship with EXEC-PC? Thanks for the informaiton. . . >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6143 reply #3 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6151 09-13-88 22:21 (Read 79 times) from: ELLEN FULLER to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DBASE FILES FOR MS Reply to #6148 Thanks for the information. I have Ashton-Tate's book. It's quite a book for reference if one knows how to use it. The index is not up to snuff, though. And the accuracy of the dBASE III+ information is absence or just barely covered in the skimpy appendix (which itself is not referenced in the index). I hope to be able to use the book to access my files. My 'C skills are not good enough and my understanding of 8088 is NULL. I was hoping to learn somethings by examining the 'C code for dBASE interface and then to write what I need that is not provided in the market. Thanks . . . >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6143 reply #4 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6155 09-14-88 08:35 (Read 74 times) from: JOHN GRANT to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DBASE FILES FOR MS Reply to #6148 I wonder if someone who 'just bought' MSC 5.0 'could easily write some code to access the files' unless they were a seasoned C programmer (you). And, if one were to learn C, why get tied to to dBASE's structures? I get a laugh out of all the ripping dBASE users take when people using other languages will kill for ways to use its data files. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6143 reply #5 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6158 09-14-88 20:20 (Read 74 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: ELLEN FULLER (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DBASE FILES FOR MS Reply to #6151 Ellen, it'll take more than a few days, but I can dig out of my archived disks the old TP3.0 code I used to do so, package it up and upload it if you think it will help you. Manual translation from that TP 3.0 to C should not be hard if you already have worked with pascal. Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6143 reply #6 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6160 09-14-88 20:28 (Read 75 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: JOHN GRANT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DBASE FILES FOR MS Reply to #6155 John, no good reason to get tied to the dBAASE 3 file structures. But if a user or programmer-user want to write a piece of non-db3 code in a compiled language to access his/her db3 files,s/he is committing no sin --- as a matter of fact, s/he might learn something about processing linked list index structures in doing so! A truly seasoned C programmer I am not. But I AM a seasoned programmer used to using pointers, structures, linked lists, etc.. and I find learningf how to accomplish an objective in a new, but structurally similar language to one I already know a manageable , albeit non-trivial, task. Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6143 reply #7 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6175 09-18-88 21:40 (Read 58 times) from: ELLEN FULLER to: JOHN GRANT (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DBASE FILES FOR MS Reply to #6156 I'll pass the information about your BBS to my co-workees. . . Thanks . . . >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6143 reply #8 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6176 09-18-88 21:45 (Read 58 times) from: ELLEN FULLER to: GRANT ELLSWORTH (Rcvd) subject: R: R: DBASE FILES FOR MS Reply to #6158 I'd like to look at the information to generate such. In addition to being curious about the format, I have ambitions of writing a few add-on products for dBASE . . . utilities ya know. By the way, I have obtained from Concentric Data the format of their RR.CNF file and I am currently writing a utility to extract from that the file the names of the printers defined. The reason for such is simple. I want to have my Clipper/dBASE routines to display the printers available prior to generating a report. By writing this routine, in C, I am able to read the RR.CNF file at all print requests. I will have a dynamically flexible routine to read the printers instead of hard-coding such into the dBASE program. Might you or anyone wish to have this 'C' code when I am done (it will take another two weeks)? Thank you . . . >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6143 reply #9 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6179 09-19-88 16:38 (Read 51 times) from: GRANT ELLSWORTH to: ELLEN FULLER subject: R: R: DBASE FILES FOR MS Reply to #6176 Ellen, i'll se if I can locate my antique stuff and upload it. Will leave msg when I get it done ... give me 7 to 10 days --- i got a lot of backed up stuff I gotta scan to find it. As to your RR.CNF processor, I am no no longer into dBasement add-ons, etc., but I do know some folks here-abouts who are ---- I'll pass on the info. Grant >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6143 reply #10 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6147 09-13-88 17:30 (Read 73 times) from: TIM NESHAM to: ALL subject: I/O PROGRAMMING I am interested in knowing more about boards that let one write code to access it so that it will turn on a device such as a light. What boards do this and what manufacturers are there that produce such boards. Thanks, Tim --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6149 09-13-88 21:39 (Read 77 times) from: DENNIS DOYLE to: ALL subject: HELP cc: SYSOP Hi everyone! I need your help with somthing. I have an IBM PCjr with 640 k I have a termianl program. Which had ansi graphics before but now even if I turn them on Nothing happens, The board is trying to display in ANSI graphics like weird signs running across the screen but nothing happens, I need help I enjoy ANSI graphics.... --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6153 09-13-88 23:21 (Read 77 times) from: DAVE KOCOL to: DENNIS DOYLE (Rcvd) subject: R: HELP Reply to #6149 Dennis, Try putting ansi.sys on your config.sys file, copy ansi.sys onto the bootable disk (the config.sys too), and reboot. Good Luck. Dave >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6149 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6159 09-14-88 20:23 (Read 74 times) from: DAN BUDIAC to: DENNIS DOYLE (Rcvd) subject: R: HELP Reply to #6149 Try using Telix. It emulates ANSI codes even if you don't have an ANSI driver in your CONFIG.SYS file. I'm not sure if 3.00 has this feature, but 2.12 does for sure. dAN >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6149 reply #2 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6164 09-14-88 23:51 (Read 75 times) from: DAVE KOCOL to: DENNIS DOYLE (Rcvd) subject: R: HELP Reply to #6149 Dennis, It could be that the 8th bit is getting stripped off, leaving you with the lower 128 charactors of ascii. Make sure that you are running 8 data bits, no parity, and 1 stop bit (on your modem and PC). I agree with the suggestion about a comm program. I use ProComm 2.42 myself, and love it. Good Luck. Dave >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6149 reply #3 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6152 09-13-88 23:17 (Read 76 times) from: DAVE KOCOL to: ALL subject: TP MESSAGE BASE As a newcomer to the programming field, I have a project underway as sort of a mini BBS, but mostly as a remote means of collecting data. I also want to put in a message base for pick up and delivery of e-mail. My question to you veteran programmers is: Is it best to use a string variable (one big one, and if so how do you edit?), or is it better to use a string for each line, but if so, how do you accomplish word wrap. I'd like to have the lines only 30 chars per line (as this will fit onto an existing form). If using one string per line, is word wrap accomplished by buffering the input and looking at char 30, looking for a space, and counting down till it finds one, then proceeding? It makes sense, but I know someone out there has done this before (probably many times). I would appreciate any and all input. Thanks, Dave --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6170 09-16-88 11:53 (Read 74 times) from: LOWELL DENNING to: ALL subject: CLARION Are there any registered Clarion users out there who live in the Washington DC suburban area? Would like to maybe exchange code, ideas, etc. Maybe share upgrades also? --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6171 09-16-88 16:25 (Read 75 times) from: JOHN GRANT to: ALL subject: FIELD & SCREEN BBS A BBS Dedicated to Database Languages and Applications. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ *(414) 529-9690 * 24 Hours A Day * Telenet & PCP WIMIL* --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6173 09-18-88 13:46 (Read 66 times) from: KAREN LITTLE to: PAUL ZIMMERMAN (Rcvd) subject: ABOUT CLARION cc: NED REITER cc: JIM TOIGO According to both Ned Reiter and Jim Toigo, Clarion is a full programming language, not just a code generator. I purchased it based on Ned's recommendation. You might like to ask more questions of them. Now, one body of applications I need has to do with "stock location" or "where the heck is that piece of paper now?" If I could program easily, and create standalone programs, there are a number of things I would design for cross-referencing of documents, including a paper-research file. I'm about to start "formal" lessons from one very informal Mr. Reiter as I just can't afford to screw around with this long learning curve. As a manager, I see the necessity to create customized programs crucial to my future professional well being. Most companies CAN'T afford competent programmers, and many have people onboard who diddled with dBase who became programmers ... but chaos and competition is getting such that the diddling period is becoming much too expensive. Also, while I appreciate, love, and adore all the people who donated their expertise for "free", I was at the mercy of THEIR schedules ... and because of the waiting-lag, I didn't learn what needed to be learned and do what needed to be done. Karen --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6174 09-18-88 20:46 (Read 59 times) from: PAUL ZIMMERMAN to: KAREN LITTLE subject: R: ABOUT CLARION Reply to #6173 Diddling is a very good way to learn. IF you have the time... I expect your tutor will give you a lot of stock algorithms & ideas and help you put them to work in your own way. It helps to start with an existing base of methods/ideas and diddle from there rather than learn all on your own. I am curious what Clarion code looks like & what its reserved words are/do... Is it a database language? I get that impression from the other discussion here, but am not certain. RE: Paper tracking You want to "index" paper files *outside* the computer? Is there a reason for this? I guess I am lazy, but I think leaving documents IN the computer in the way to go, unless there is no backup available, or there are some sort of legal requirements. (Computer documents are not legally valid for proving things, as they can be altered without a trace, etc..) Paul >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6173 reply #1 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6178 09-19-88 11:13 (Read 56 times) from: MARK GINSBERG to: ALL subject: PASCAL TO C In the proliferation of pascal to C translators which were encouraged about the time turbo pascal 4.0 and microsoft C 5.0 were about to be released, which one is best? Anyone out there try enough to know? I have a project written in pascal which a customer wants in C and would like to know if any of the translators out there do an abnormally good job. --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6180 09-19-88 21:44 (Read 39 times) from: DALE ULMER to: MARK GINSBERG (Rcvd) subject: R: PASCAL TO C Reply to #6178 Because of important basic (no pun intended) differences between Pascal and C, I doubt seriously whether a translator that does a good job has been written, let alone an abnormally good one. C's "do your own thing" attitude versus Pascal's jackboot discipline is only the beginning. When I wrote in Pascal, I'd often write a procedure within a procedure. The concept is alien to C. A purely mechanical translation is probably impossible. I suspect that even a simple Pascal program would be translated into a far from optimum C program without the intervention of some active human imagination. There are a few translators here - try a few - I'll bet you're disappointed. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6178 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6183 09-20-88 17:18 (Read 8 times) from: TIM NESHAM to: DALE ULMER subject: R: R: PASCAL TO C Reply to #6180 I agree with your statement about translating Pascal to C. Some say they are so similar. But after being involved in a project to translate Pastoc I found just how different those two languages can be! If it is a simple program then it doesn't need a translator. Gee after seeing QB4 I wonder if that is the language that tries to be BASIC, Pascal and C. Tim >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6178 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6181 09-19-88 22:33 (Read 34 times) from: ANDY WHITCROFT to: MARK TELLIER (LEADER) subject: EDITORS Dear Mark, I no longer know weather to yell for help or just jump up and down and have a fit. The reason for my fustration is that I am still looking for a programmers editor that work with me rather than against me. To date I have seen demo versions of Vedit Plus, Multi-edit, Qedit, and waiting for my breif demo and my Vedit plus 3.00 demo. All of them have their weird quirks. Therefore I am going to open this very personal and usaully hottly debated topic open again. What programm editor do you use and WHY(!) or should I get Borland's Turbo Editor toolbox and make my own. Andy. P.S. Any editor suggestion's will be appreciated as long as you do your best to tell my why you like a particular editor! --------------- conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6182 09-19-88 23:10 (Read 33 times) from: GLEN THOMPSON to: ANDY WHITCROFT subject: R: EDITORS Reply to #6181 Andy, Some time ago I started using Qedit. At the time I looked at a number of different editors and settled on Qedit. My needs were fairly simple, a single module so I could put in the PATH, multiple windows (2 or 3 is fine), reasonable speed, the usual editing functions (move, copy, search/replace, etc.), configurable keyboard, good price/performance. Qedit met that requirement. The manual could be better, it takes a while to learn. I used Borland's Editor Toolbox to build an editor for use within my company. A Qedit site license was too expensive. I also bet my boss that I could produce a good editor in 8 hours of work, he didn't believe me but I did it. The Editor Toolbox is not the easiest thing to modify but you can build almost any editor you want. All I did was to change the key mapping and add a help function. glen >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6181 reply #1 conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6184 09-20-88 17:29 (Read 7 times) from: TIM NESHAM to: ANDY WHITCROFT subject: R: EDITORS Reply to #6181 I don't care which editor I use as long as it's not EDLIN. This is a different perspective than what you want I guess but wait.... I use PCwrite, TurboC editor, Wordstar(natch), QuickC, VEDIT, Professional Write, Microsoft editor, Qedit, PCTOOL Editor, Sidekick, VENTURA, Mix, and whatever else I get my hands on. I just use them..... I usually use the TurboC editor since I can TC (subdirectory) and get the file listing which fits into the MASK and store up to eight files(ok not in memory, big deal) and most important - it's cheap! I just accept my editor for what it is - nice editor. >>>>>>>>>> Msg 6181 reply #2 >>>Last msg in reply thread. Returning to normal sequence. conf: PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES #6185 09-20-88 17:38 (Read 6 times) from: MARK GINSBERG to: ALL subject: C CONVENTIONS Okay, 2 other questions. 1) Does Quick C come with a command line compiler like TurboC does? 2) What is the analog in either of these languages to the Turbo Pascal 4.0 user written device driver? i.e. some odd ball way of getting say "printf" to dump chars to a user written handler that in turn pumps the chars to something strange (like a serial port or a non-standard video screen etc.). --------------- Conf: *PRGRMING* Read messages: <F>orward or <R>everse multiple <N>ew msgs <M>arked msgs (also unread Email) <S>elective on from/to/subject <I>ndividual msgs by # Non-retrieval commands: <L>eave (send) a msg <U>pload msg <D>elete a msg <Z>ip scan & mark <CR> or <Q> to QUIT 216 READ command (FRNMSILUDZQTG, ?=help) -->