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Wrap

Text File | 1989-08-09 | 18.7 KB | 440 lines

Copyright 1989 by CompuServe AmigaForum, Mike Lehman. A formal conference with Mike Lehman of Intuitive Technologies was held in AmigaArts conference room 2 on conference room 2 on 2-AUG-1989. The topic was UltraCard. The following is a heavily edited transcript of that conference. Guest speaker's and moderator's comments are identified with their initials, I.E., "ML:". Forum members are designated with their names inside parenthesis, I.E., (Frank Lazar). Other editing included the unraveling of interleaved comments, correction of obvious line noise problems, deletion of unrelated remarks, and paragraph formatting. Editorial comments added after the fact (by me) are presented in square brackets. The original, unedited conference transcript will be available through the end of the month; please contact me if interested. Thanks to everyone who participated! Rick Rae [76703,4253] ----------------------------------------------------------------- RR: Let's start rolling. <Banging gavel> Welcome all to a special conference with Mike Lehman of Intuitive Technologies. Tonight's primary subject: UltraCard, a HyperCard workalike for the Amiga. Mike, do you have any opening comments? ML: Well, first of all, thanks for inviting me to be here. I just got back from a very hectic AmiExpo in Chicago. It was so busy I couldn't get out of the booth to see what was happening elsewhere. Of course, that's the way it should be! Anyway, UltraCard was well received and DIDN'T CRASH THE ENTIRE SHOW! RR: Mike, why don't you start by giving us a general overview of UC and what it can do for us. ML: Okay. UltraCard is, like the man said, a HyperCard "work- alike"... except that it is multi-tasking, color, supports ARexx, supports multiple resolutions, and of course, runs on an AMIGA! The basic idea is that it is an "Application Construction Set" that allows you to draw your screens with the mouse and create "gadgets" (we call them objects) and then give life to them by "scripting", using the built-in language called UltraTalk. UltraTalk is VERY similar -- but not identical -- to HyperTalk (the language built into HyperCard from Apple). We intentionally strove to make them similar but not identical. First significant note: There is nothing to our knowledge that you can do with HyperCard that you can't do with UltraCard, and many things -- including REAL HyperText -- that UltraCard can do that HyperCard can't. (Frank Lazar) Mike, will you be able to examine or convert HyprCard stacks to UltraCard? And, any more Jay Miner Collector editions? ML: We are "working" on writing a converter, release date totally unknown (if ever; it's just a research project at this stage). As for the second answer, I'll have to ask Jay. He graciously offered to sit in our booth [at AmiExpo] and autograph copies. I might get him to do it again in SantaClara in October... we'll see. (Frank Lazar) That was meant humorously, Mike. <smile> ML: By the way, Steve Gillmor, the author of the recent Amazing Computing article on UltraCard, is also present. (Steve Gillmor) Greetings, all. (Jim Ventola) (First, Congratulations!) I got one of the copies that arrived in the store today (V. 1.1). It looks great, but it crashes a lot. The stack is fine. What should the version be? How do I register, since there is no registration card? And will you put some of your BBS files on CIS and Plink for those of us far away? ML: Jim, register by sending us your name and address. We forgot the registration cards in California before we left for Chicago. Sorry. Please send me your configuration and how you crashed it. There will be a new revision (to support the programmer's kit) shortly, and if we can duplicate your problem, we'll fix it in that release. Policy Statement: Updates are free for 90 days; just send in your disk and a self-addressed stamped envelope (total cost $0.90). The question about BBS files is that we will, of course, put significant BBS files up here. We will probably "zoo" and/or distill examples, but yes: all information distributed will be essentially the same for all dissemination paths. (Jim Ventola) Mike, one thing I keep getting is a requestor saying "VOLUME ULTRA is FULL". Hitting CANCEL several times may or may not get me back to the screen. Is that a known bug? I would have to include a LONG letter to tell of all the problems... should I? I really want to use this for school work. ML: Please! We have tested, tested, and tested again but, of course, we don't have every configuration or every combination at our disposal. If you are using it from the CLI please don't forget to set your stack size to 15000. Regarding the full disk, I'll look into it. Right now, every time you close a stack it writes the global variable settings out to the file. In the next release it will be more selective as to when it needs to do this writing. The distribution disk we send out (I hope you are using a copy) is VERY full. You will probably need to delete the UCBROWSER to make room to work. (DavidA) Mike, are you planning to support any music output, such as SMUS play files or (hopefully) MIDI output from MIDI Format Files? ML: We are planning, as soon as possible, to support as many built-in playing mechanisms as possible. We are actively looking for source code that will let us play SMUS, ANIM, etc. If you know of or have any such code please let me know. (DavidA) Mike, please don't forget about the Music-X format, which is being made available by MI, when you work on the music ports. ML: Sure. We, right now, support the ability to run external players with/without ARexx. But I would like to put players into the program (somehow) so that all the types of output can be synchronized. The programmer's kit will allow us/you to create libraries which could add such functionality to UltraCard, so if someone out there doesn't want to give up their proprietary code, they can write an UltraLib to provide support for UltraCard users. Thanks. The programmer's kit sounds like a real winner. (Ethan) Just curious: what language and which program did you use for UltraCard? ML: I used C because it was what I used for MaxiPlan (Plan/IT) and I had much code that I could re-use, such as menus, event loop, file requesters, etc. I also used the Manx compiler because of the same reasons, but I plan (until they catch up to Lattice) to switch from Manx to Lattice so that I can get prototypes and register parameters. (Jim Ventola) Three questions. What IS the current version and how do users know if they have it? Are there plans for CD-ROM stuff? Will there ever be an industry-wide standard so all the stacks and hypertext can be shared easily, especially when CD-ROM gets cheaper? ML: The current version is 1.1, and you can tell by the title bar or the "About" menu item. I would like to see a graphic-independent HYPERTEXT standard but I'm afraid that a graphic-independent HYPERMEDIA standard is a ways off. We of course use IFF for our images and other systems could use that, but we are planning a future version that supports other types of images; no announcement of what types (yet). I hope that CD-ROM will catch on and that there will be a standard. I have always been a big standards person and if there becomes a standard, we will support it. (DavidA) Mike, another product that seems like it might have some similarities to UltraCard is CanDo. I know that it hasn't been released yet, but can you comment on similarities or differences? ML: As you have said, it is not released yet. From their press it will have an ARexx port, so it can be conversant with UltraCard. I think that is all I can say, since anything else would be premature. Suffice it to say that we will ALWAYS be competitive and, at $50, probably more economical. (DavidA) From their press releases, are the products similar, do they do different things, or do they have some overlap if not completely the same? ML: I really can't tell. All the information I have is the talk here and the ad. (Steve Scherbinski) Mike, I purchased your product at AmiExpo and I have to wonder why it was released when it was. The documentation seems sketchy and the language seems too full of bugs to be released. ML: There is on all products a "marketing window" that is critical. The printed documentation was intentionally limited, and there will be much more stack and printed documentation supplied to people who bought the product. As to bugs in the language, I welcome your feedback. We are committed to fixing, in a rapid manner, all problems. That is why we published this one ourselves, having had much experience publishing through others and having a very long delay between customer reports and our notification. (Steve Scherbinski) Thanks, I've got a list that I've been making which you will get soon. Is your BBS ever going to get up, I've tried calling a couple of times and all I get is a recording. ML: I've been trying to get it going. I'm using BBS-PC, but have not been successful in getting it to run with our Apple modem. I've got another modem I'm going to try tonight after the conference. (Avant-Garde Software) Mike, I have two questions. First, how would you compare HyperCard to UltraCard in terms of capability, quality and usefulness? And, why is UltraCard not available through dealers and distributors? ML: First, UltraCard is now available from dealers and is distributed by American Software Distributors. Second, capability and usefulness are superior to HyperCard, and quality will be superior within this month. We appreciate any feedback any of our users have and intend to be VERY responsive. I built UltraCard because I was tired of building applications the HARD WAY. This will be my primary vehicle for future development. Improvements to come soon include multiple windows, user definable menus, etc. Also, as we say in the manual, there will be a "compiler" version available within 6 months. I even plan, someday in the future, to make a "headless" version of our matrix calculator engine, to be available from UltraCard. (Avant-Garde Software) So you are saying that UltraCard can be a system for the development of application software normally developed in "C", Modula-2, or Assembler? ML: Surely a system for that. Probably never a replacement, but maybe we could figure out a way to make it link easily to compiled code in C++ or object-oriented Modula, etc. I'm tired of debugging the same code for each product, and I'm sure you folks are too. HyperMedia for the purposes of communication is nice, but I eventually want software "chips" so I can encapsulate a "done" routine. (Brendan Pratt) Mike, will you be planning a distributor for Australia? And secondly, do you plan to, at a later stage, make up something to make it Hypercard compatible? ML: I'm looking for overseas distribution now. If you have any suggestions, I'm all ears. As I said earlier, we are "working" on a translator, but no promises. (Jim Ventola) I'm curious. Why is the manual printed sideways, and do you want a proofreader? By "compiler version" did you mean one that would let floppy-run stacks be much faster? And finally, is anyone porting some of the prize-winning stacks that already exist over to Ultracard while we wait for possible conversion programs? It seems like a good move, though obviously YOU are busy with the product itself. Still, I would LOVE to run some of them. RR: Jim, sideways? (Jim Ventola) The top of the page is at the binding. Or the bottom if it is a verso page. ML: The manual was printed sideways for effect; it will be changing in the future. If you mean by "proof reader" pages three and four, we are getting a discount on the printing because of that! The compiler will make execution faster. As we improve the product the floppy speed will DEFINITELY get faster. We know of at least two methods to speed it up, but were unable to get them in for 1.1. After all, you can't have everything in a first release. Our update policy, for those who just joined us, is send in your original disk and a SASE within 90 days and we'll send you the latest version. If you want to hold on to your disk (it is NOT copy protected), we will send you a new one for $5. (Jim Ventola) Hypercard has done a LOT for the Mac, and I think that Ultracard has the potential to do as much or more for Amiga. I am glad to see the support you are giving the product. ML: Thanks! I agree and think that Commodore/Amiga may yet give us some support. (We offered this product to them LAST SEPTEMBER) (Ethan) I remember reading in the Amazing Computing article that you were getting a major Apple stack maker to convert some stacks to UltraCard. Is that still on, and could you possibly name names? (I don't expect you to, though!) ML: No. But I'm still working on it. We are, however, going to do some major stacks by the end of this month, and I know of some Amiga product specific stacks by "not-us"... but I can't talk about that! If anyone has any ideas and not enough time, I'd be glad to hear. By the way, the Apple stack maker has some infiltration from Ami-oids. (Ethan) Will all stacks be free, or will any be for cash? ML: Example stacks will always be FREE. Commercial stacks -- that is, stacks that don't demonstrate UltraCard but provide a viable time/money saving service -- will cost money but will, in general, cost less than $50. (Jim Ventola) Is the programmer's kit usable with Modula-2, and what does it do? Also, my main interest is in authoring interactive lessons with Ultracard. I am not yet sure it can do all that I want. How does it compare with VIVA, which Commodre IS supporting for that purpose? ML: First, Commodore is not supporting VIVA (to the best of my knowledge), but is developing their own product. Second, what do you want it to do? We do everything I know they do (I'll talk about video disk in a minute) except script with icons which, in my humble opinion, is like programming in FORTH: easy to write but *ell to maintain. Regarding video disk, we are just starting a project with the new Interactive Video Industries Assocication to put a system into a museum in Washington, D.C. that uses Amigas to show off everyone else's equipment! This will be CD-ROM, Video Disk, touch screen, still camera, genloc and UltraCard based!. We are also planning built-in ANIM support. So tell me, what does VIVA do that we don't? RR: Mike, what did you mean by "show off everyone else's equipment"? ML: I mean that this museum includes Sony, Panasonic, IBM, Apple, etc... anyone that produces interactive video. There will be some of each, but there will be eleven Amigas! RR: That sounds more like, perhaps, "show UP everyone else's equipment"! <Grin> (Jim Ventola) Mike, I agree totally about writing in ICONS! I don't know that much about VIVA, but a full featured "authoring system" needs sophisiticated string analysis, almost a parser. I would also want to be able to provide students with a simple editor, etc. ML: String analysis could be done in UltraTalk. We have a simple editor for use within the program. Let me know what you need. We ARE user driven! (Jim Ventola) About the programmer's kit and Modula-2? ML: The programmer's kit allows you to call any standard sharable library, and specially constructed libraries can add statements to the language, and built-in functions too. Ok, That's it. Thanks to all for coming... and UltraCard forever! (Or at least for a few years!) RR: The hour is late folks, so I'm going to close this one down. All are free to chat. Thanks Mike for coming tonight, and for your generosity. <Banging Gavel> [At this point the formal conference ended, however a few members remained for some time to continue discussing the particulars of UltraCard. The following are excerpts from that discussion.] (Jim Ventola) Mike, the only way I could use the unzooed extra stacks was to put them in RAM:; otherwise, I had to swap disks FOREVER. How do you use a stack that is on a disk that is not ultra: and not your boot:? ML: Jim, you should make a copy, delete the browser, and then put the unzood stacks on the disk. (Dave) There isn't an Amiga store near me. Can I buy UltraCard direct? ML: UltraCard is available directly from us for $50 plus $5 shipping and handling. (Jim Ventola) Mike, could UltraCard check that something IS a stack before running it? My students are BOUND to try running who knows what! ML: Jim, sure. It does it okay now, but it will do it better in the next version. (Steve Gillmor) Jim, did you crash it by running a stack that wasn't one? (Jim Ventola) Steve, yes. I downloaded browser this morning. There was with it "FILE1". I tried to run it and got a pure white screen. Then I did a filetype and found that FILE1 was just browser's icon. ML: Jim, browser 1.04 didn't work well with non-stacks. 1.1 is better and beyond 1.1 is great. (John/TCR) Mike, are you shipping to distributors yet? (Specifically American.) ML: Yes. American sold out of our initial shipment the first day! (Jim Ventola) Mike, why did you decide to be close, but not TOO close, to Hypercard? Lawyers? As I understand it, Hypertext is NOT Apple's idea anyway. ML: Well, I didn't get a chance to say during the conference, but I came up with the idea for an application construction kit FIVE YEARS AGO, and even built a prototype (with an engineering notebook!), so I'm not really worried about Apple or anyone. The HyperCard file format is not public domain. I had only three months to move from prototype to final product and did not have time to reverse engineer their format. (Jim Ventola) I have only seen Hypercard once, but I was impressed by the graphics. An artist must have been hired for that, and I maintain that hiring artists and real editors is worth it if you can afford it. Ultracard looks almost as nice. ML: Thanks, I'm no artist but I know one! (Jim Ventola) Seems to have been a bit of a family project from the opening of the manual. Nice! ML: Jim, you are right. I'm tired of hiring "professionals" when my own family and close friends can do just as good... or better. (Jim Ventola) I have only seen Hypercard once, but I was impressed by the graphics. An artist must have been hired for that, and I maintain that hiring artists and real editors is worth it if you can afford it. Ultracard looks almost as nice. ML: Thanks, I'm no artist but I know one! (Jim Ventola) Seems to have been a bit of a family project from the opening of the manual. Nice! ML: Jim, you are right. I'm tired of hiring "professionals" when my own family and close friends can do just as good... or better. (Jim Ventola) Mike, did you write the manual yourself? ML: Yes; I did everything except the logo design which was done by my wonderful, infinitely patient wife.