Amiga ISO Collection/AmigaDemoCD2.iso/ASCII/TEXTE/c.s.a.reviews/hardware/cd-rom/CDROMsurvey1993-raw-data

Text File | 1994-06-02 | 125.7 KB | 3,946 lines

    This is the (mostly) complete text of all responses I received
for my 1993 CD-ROM survey.  When I posted the original survey form, I
said that all responses might be made public, so anyone wanting anonymity
must tell me so.  Nobody requested anonymity.

    I have deleted mail headers and some of my own words (quoted by
the respondents) from the survey; everything else is unchanged.  Responses
are separated by lines of equals signs (e.g., "==========").

    The results of this survey are summarized and analyzed in the
article "SURVEY: CD-ROM on the Amiga, 1993 [long]", posted on May 6, 1993,
in the USENET newsgroup comp.sys.amiga.reviews.  I suggest that you read
this survey review first!!  It is available by anonymous ftp in the
comp.sys.amiga.reviews archives on math.uh.edu, in the file
pub/Amiga/comp.sys.amiga.reviews/CDROMsurvey1993, or by e-mail from
[e-mail].

                                                        Dan

 //////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
| Dan Barrett -- Dept of Computer Science, Lederle Graduate Research Center |
| University of Massachusetts, Amherst, MA  01003  --  [e-mail] |
 \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/////////////////////////////////////


From: Brick Eksten <[e-mail]>

>(1)    Tell us about your Amiga:

               Model:        A3000/040
               OS version:   3.0
               SCSI conroller: A3000 internal

>(2)    Tell us about your CD-ROM drive:

               Brand:  Hitachi
               Model number: CDR - 3750
               Access speed (ms): 300 ms
               Data transfer rate (KB/sec):  150kb
               Internal or external: Internal

>(3)    Why did you choose this particular drive?

        Quality,  the Hitachi mechanism is probably one of the
     most well made mechanisms on the market. And price.  The
     Hitachi lists for 750+ but can be found for $450.00

     Features include:
       Chinon compatibility mode.
       Dual Dust doors, color coded for Cd-inserted/no-Cd
       Fast 300ms seek times, (actually rated at 280ms by Hitachi)
       Very sturdy.
       stereo audio
       Very clean looking
       volume control, electronic eject

>(4)    Is your drive installed horizontally or vertically?
>    Can your drive be installed vertically, according to the
>    documentation?

        horizontally...  Can be installed either way.


>(5)    Does your Amiga boot properly if there is no disc in the CD-ROM
>    drive?

        Yes

>(6)    What software driver(s) do you use?

>    (a)    AsimCDFS by Asimware Innovations
>    (b)    CD-ROM-FS by Canadian Prototype Replicas.
>    (c)    Xetec
>    (d)    Other (give name, vendor, and a brief description of
>        capabilities)

        Xetec.  I have tried Asim and CD-FS but they both are inferior
      to Xetec's software.

>    Are you happy with the software?  Any complaints?

        Works flawlessly.  Also I commend them on supplying
  a library for programmers to access so that they can write their
  own software for the CD-ROM, I wrote my own audio player in a
  day with their library.

>(7)    What CD-ROM discs do you own?  List title and author.

      You don't have enough room in this survey for this answer 8^)

    Easier to say that I haven't run across a normal ISO-9660 or
  Mac HFS disk that I couldn't read.

>(8)    What discs have you tried, but DO NOT WORK CORRECTLY, in your CD-ROM
>    drive?  List title and author, and describe the problem briefly.

   The only *computer* disk I have tried that didn't work was the install
  disk for my NeXT.  But that is in NeXT format so I didn't expect it to
  work.

>(9)    What is your favorite CD-ROM disc?

   The Ab-20, unix sources, and Fred Fish CDROMs are all great.

>(10)    Are you satisfied with your CD-ROM setup?  Any complaints?

   Very, it is faster to look at an ISO 9660 cdrom on my amiga than
 on any other platform.  I own a Quadra 950, a NeXT station, and an
 A-3000, and the 3000 can browse faster, transfer faster, and read more
 disks than any of the other machines.  The Mac is absolutely horrid,
 takeing over 20 minutes to get a directory on the Walnut creek
 Gifs Galore CD-Rom.

>(11)    Any other comments?

   Yeah, one big comment..  Someone needs to talk to Chrish H(sp), the
 guy who is currently doing the Fred Fish on CD-ROM.  Fred Fish is
 ready to go under, because he has less subscribers than ever, and Chris
 is makeing a mint off of Freds efforts. He claims to have offered Fred
 money for the rights, but I doubt that because he also claims to have
 offered the creators of Aquarium and KingFisher money as well, but he
 hasn't.  Udo (author of KingFisher) is a good friend of mine, he heard
 from Chris once when he called to say that he might put KingFisher on the
 latest CD. He did without calling UDO to confirm that he was doing so,
 Udo had to call me to find out if he did or not.  It's programs liek
 KingFisher and Aquarium that make the Fred Fish CD worth owning.
 As much as I enjoy haveing CD-ROMS, I have to ask myself who is benefitting
 from the actual production of the ROM's.  CD-ROM's cost $1.40 to manufacture
 that includes, burning the disk, the insert and the jewel case,  this is
 a price I have been quoted by several companies, and a price that I have
 paid to have disks made.  The average $30.00 software package contains
 around $7.00 worth of materials, includeing disk(s), manual, warranty card
 packing material, and sleeve or box printing.  (thats a cheap price).
 The average software package goes through distributors meaning that
 50% of the price is lost right away to distributors (usually 60%).
 This brings the net per package down to about $8.00.  What have these
 people that market CD-ROM's done?   They have purchased a large HD, packed
 it full of PD material, backed it up to tape, and had CD-ROMs burned from
 them.  Most CD-ROMS are distributed directly (PD ones anyways), bypassing
 any distributors. That puts the net for the CD at about $23.00 on a $30.00
 CD. Pretty good.  I have nothing against someone makeing a buck, but the
 contributors are getting absolutely nothing for the work they did and placed
 into the public domain with the hopes of makeing some toy money.  That's
 not right!  Most shareware copyrights and distribution notices strictly
 prevent anyone from charging for distribution of thier program beyond
 reasonable media fees, and handling charges.  I don't consider
 $23.00 gross profit per CD a reasonable handleing charge.  And I don't
 think it is right or maybe even legal for someone to redistribute the
 work of others, shareware authors in particular without shareing some
 of the profit.  What Chris has accomplished is taking a 800+ disk collection
 of great software and packaged it in a manner that does absolutely nothing
 to endorse the shareware concept,  does nothing in the way of supporting
 the orignal compiler of the library (FFish), and in no way pays back the
 tens of thousands of hours of work that went into the original programs.
 Pretty lame if you ask me..  Why am I telling you this?  Because you are
 in a position to pass the word so to speak to people who are intersted
 in purchasing a CDROM, own one and are curious about others experiences,
 and to the curious in general, in a manner much more eloquently stated
 than I could (not to mention spell checked 8^) ).  I am going to look
 into this from a legal standpoint, as I am putting together some CDROM
 projects in the near future.

 Good Luck with your survey,


  Brick Eksten

============================================================================

From: [e-mail]
To: barrett@astro
Subject: Re: SURVEY: CD-ROM on the Amiga
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 93 20:02:42 +0100

>(1)    Tell us about your Amiga:

>        Model: A3000/25
>        OS version: 2.04
>        SCSI controller: A3000

>(2)    Tell us about your CD-ROM drive:

>        Brand: Toshiba
>        Model number: XM3301
>        Access speed (ms): ???
>        Data transfer rate (KB/sec): 150KB/s
>        Internal or external: external

>(3)    Why did you choose this particular drive?

It was offered in a bundle.

>(4)    Is your drive installed horizontally or vertically?
>    Can your drive be installed vertically, according to the
>    documentation?

Both.

>(5)    Does your Amiga boot properly if there is no disc in the CD-ROM
>    drive?

YES! I've now figured it out: Put it on the high end of the SCSI ID's (e.g.
6) and power it OFF while you are configuring your SCSI HD's with HDToolBox.
The SCSI HD with the highest SCSI ID will get a bit set in the RDB
(LastDrive), which tells the SCSI controller on boot up not to look for
additional drives after this one.

>(6)    What software driver(s) do you use?

Canadian Prototype CDFS
AsimWare CDFS 1.0

>    Are you happy with the software?  Any complaints?

They work well, but automatic disk change detection seems to be a problem.

>(7)    What CD-ROM discs do you own?  List title and author.

Fred Fish 1-800, HyperMedia
Fred Fish Online 1-750, HyperMedia
CATS Developer CD 2.0, C=

>(8)    What discs have you tried, but DO NOT WORK CORRECTLY, in your CD-ROM
>    drive?  List title and author, and describe the problem briefly.

-

>(9)    What is your favorite CD-ROM disc?

Fred Fish 1-800

>(10)    Are you satisfied with your CD-ROM setup?  Any complaints?

Yes, great for mass-data storage.

>(11)    Any other comments?

Eagerly awaiting the AmiNet CD from Walnut Creek :-)

    Stefan

============================================================================

From: [e-mail] (Vitas Povilaitis)

>(1)    Tell us about your Amiga:

        Model: Amiga 2000
        OS version: 2.04
        SCSI controller: GVP G-Force Series II

>(2)    Tell us about your CD-ROM drive:

        Brand: Toshiba
        Model number: 3301
        Access speed (ms): ??
        Data transfer rate (KB/sec): ??
        Internal or external: internal

>(3)    Why did you choose this particular drive?

It was a cheap refurbished drive.

>(4)    Is your drive installed horizontally or vertically?
>    Can your drive be installed vertically, according to the
>    documentation?

horizontally.  I didn't get docs.

>(5)    Does your Amiga boot properly if there is no disc in the CD-ROM
>    drive?

Yes.

>(6)    What software driver(s) do you use?

    (a)    AsimCDFS by Asimware Innovations
    (c)    Xetec

>    Are you happy with the software?  Any complaints?

Yes.  Yes; Xetec's software thinks CD-ROM's with long volume names (like the
CD-ROM's from Profit Press) is a file and won't let me access them (in the
version I use).

>(7)    What CD-ROM discs do you own?  List title and author.

Prime Time Software CD-ROM
Fred Fish CD-ROM    Hypermedia
Fish & More    Xetec
AB20 archive    Walnut Creek
MegaDemo    Profit Press
For Adults Only    Profit Press
SIMTEL archive    Walnut Creek
Sun User's Group Walnut Creek

>(8)    What discs have you tried, but DO NOT WORK CORRECTLY, in your CD-ROM
>    drive?  List title and author, and describe the problem briefly.

See 6.

>(9)    What is your favorite CD-ROM disc?

Fred Fish for quantity of useful software.
Fish and More for ready-to-run organization.

>(10)    Are you satisfied with your CD-ROM setup?  Any complaints?

yes. no.

>(11)    Any other comments?

I wish there were more Amiga CD-ROM's.  But looking at some of the
trash available on PC's, Mac's and CDTV, I'd rather have quality rather
than quantity.  By quality, I mean CD-ROM's with archives of tested
software, or, better yet, archives of ready-to-run software.  Maybe even
games that make use of that space, not to store graphics and sound, but
actual gameplay data, like maps of a world to explore, or tables that drive
AI opponents in strategy games.
--
[e-mail]    |  [e-mail]
Northern Telecom |  Graceful Boot BBS [phone]
It's December 31, 1999 at 11:59:59.9...
Do you know where your data is?

============================================================================

From: [e-mail] (Darren Enns)
>(1)    Tell us about your Amiga:
Model: A3000/25 mhz
OS Version: 2.04 (non-ROM)
SCSI Controller: A3000 type

>(2)    Tell us about your CD-ROM drive:
Brand: Chinon
Model: CDX-431
Access Speed: 350 ms
Data Xfer Speed: 150k bytes/s (hmm...never tested)
Int/Ext: External

>(3)    Why did you choose this particular drive?

At the time, it was the cheapest external SCSI-based CDROM drive which
I knew for sure would work with available drivers.  It may still be.
It also had PC card in case I ever purchased a PC.

>(4)    Is your drive installed horizontally or vertically?
>    Can your drive be installed vertically, according to the
>    documentation?

The manual says 'horizontal' with '+/- 5 degree' tolerance

>(5)    Does your Amiga boot properly if there is no disc in the CD-ROM
>    drive?

Hmmm...I think it did not once, but now that I changed the SCSI address
to a lower number (?) I think it does not matter.

>(6)    What software driver(s) do you use?
CDROM-FS

>    Are you happy with the software?  Any complaints?

Quite happy, though there was NO opportunity to register for upgrades,
so if/when Mac and CDTV ability occurs, how will I know about it and/or
not have to pay for it?
>
>(7)    What CD-ROM discs do you own?  List title and author.

Fred Fish Collection v1.4 by Hypermedia Concepts
AB20 Amiga CDROM by Walnut Creek CDROM
GIFS Galore by Walnut Creek CDROM
Desktop Library by Walnut Creek CDROM
MS-DOS/MacIntosh Collection by SelectWare System v3 #3 (came with drive)
OS/2 Archive CDROM by Walnut Creek CDROM (by mistake)

>(8)    What discs have you tried, but DO NOT WORK CORRECTLY, in your CD-ROM
>    drive?  List title and author, and describe the problem briefly.

All seem to be at least readable, though PC software, of course, does not work.

>(9)    What is your favorite CD-ROM disc?

Fred Fish Collection

>(10)    Are you satisfied with your CD-ROM setup?  Any complaints?

Yes, now I even have the audio hooked up to a garage-sale desktop sound
system.  Wish the CDROM was faster, and could support PhotoCD, Windows Multi
media standards, etc..

>(11)    Any other comments?

Hope to get my first NASA disk soon.  Would LOVE to know about text-based
PC CDROM's which could be useful -- e.g. encyclopedias, etc..  There are
tonnes of PC-world CDROMs which I would love to have, and this might
eventually force me to break down and purchase a PC (sad!).

============================================================================

From: kentcomm![e-mail] (Jim Perkowski)

> (1)    Tell us about your Amiga:
>
>         Model: A2000
>         OS version: 2.1
>         SCSI controller: GVP 33mhz Combo
>
> (2)    Tell us about your CD-ROM drive:
>
>         Brand: Chinon
>         Model number: 435
>         Access speed (ms): 380
>         Data transfer rate (KB/sec): 125K
>         Internal or external: Internal
>
> (3)    Why did you choose this particular drive?

        I had a Toshiba 3201B that did not support reselection so I
        opted for a different brand. The Chinon was the best deal.
>
> (4)    Is your drive installed horizontally or vertically?
>     Can your drive be installed vertically, according to the
>     documentation?

        Horizontally. Yes

> (5)    Does your Amiga boot properly if there is no disc in the CD-ROM
>     drive?

        Yes.

>
> (6)    What software driver(s) do you use?
>
>     (a)    AsimCDFS by Asimware Innovations
>     (b) x    CD-ROM-FS by Canadian Prototype Replicas.
>     (c) x    Xetec
>     (d)    Other (give name, vendor, and a brief description of
>         capabilities)
>
>     Are you happy with the software?  Any complaints?

        I am happiest with the Xetec software because they have
        periodic updates that I can download from their bbs.

        I am least happy with CDROM-FS. I came with no manual and no
        warrenty/registration card. Where do you get updates?

> (7)    What CD-ROM discs do you own?  List title and author.

    Fred Fish Collection on CDROM - HyperMedia
    Desktop Library               - Walnut Creek
    Grolier Encyclopidia          - CDTV Publishing
    AB20 Amiga                    - Walnut Creek
    Fish & More I                 - Xetec
    Fish & More II                - Xetec
    NASA Space Sampler V1         - Reference Technoloy Inc.
    NASA Space Sampler V2         - Reference Technoloy Inc.
    GIFs Galore                   - Walnut Creek
    Heroic Age of Space flight    - CDTV Publishing

> (8)    What discs have you tried, but DO NOT WORK CORRECTLY, in your CD-ROM
>     drive?  List title and author, and describe the problem briefly.

    Heroic Age of Space flight    - CDTV Publishing
        Will not play CDXL animations properly. They crash after a few
    minutes.

> (9)    What is your favorite CD-ROM disc?

        Desktop Library               - Walnut Creek

> (10)    Are you satisfied with your CD-ROM setup?  Any complaints?

        I am very satisfied with my CDROM system. The only complaint I
    have is that there are not enough Amiga specific CDROM's.

> (11)    Any other comments?

        I want you to know that I have (4) freinds who have CDROM
        drives for their Amiga systems who are not on UseNet. You might
    want to include this as a question in your next survey to get a
    more accurate picture of the Amiga CDROM community.

> Thanks in advance!
>
>                                                         Dan
>

 Jim Perkowski

--
_______________________________________________________________________________
kentcomm![e-mail] (and) kentcomm![e-mail]

============================================================================

From: [e-mail]

> (1)    Tell us about your Amiga:
[says Dan, as he leans back in his leather arm chair, pipe in his left
 hand, his right hand silently patting his A3000T.  I believe this
 session is costing about $100/hr, so I start talking away...]

    Well doc, it all started one day when I was using the
Commodore PET at my junior high school.  I wanted to get a computer at
home.  My parents went out and bought me a VIC-20.  But that wasn't
enough.  I soon graduated to the C-64 level where I was overwhelmed by
its BASIC capabilities, its wonderful SID chip, and 16 colors (wow!).

["So what did you think about its BASIC capabilities, its wonderful
SID chip, and 16 colors (wow!)?" asks Herr. Doktor Barrett]

    But doctor, then I realized.  Faster.  Bigger.  Better.  I
soon outgrew my C-64 stage (which follows the oral and anal stages,
documented in much of Freud's works) and entered my Amiga stage.  I
bought the A2000 through the educational deal (since they considered
UCLA an educational institution.  Ha.  No wonder why IBM makes more
money than CBM.)  I was happy, content, just plain ducky.

["So you were happy, content, just plain ducky?" asks Doktor
 Barrett as he lightly taps his pipe on his mouse.]

    Until the fateful day: the Amiga 3000 appeared out of the
ground, shaking the world with its immensity, its power, its... Oh,
let's skip it.  It popped into the computer world and that was about
it.  But of course, I NEEDED IT.  Was I addicted?  Was I entrenched in
the lethal grasp of Commodore?  (I don't know.  You tell me, Dan.)

["Why would you say you were entrenched in the lethal grasp of
 Commodore?" asks Doktor Barrett.  I notice he has been typing
 everything I have said into his A3000T.  I notice, on his overscan
 Workbench, a window entitled "ELIZA."  What that is, I didn't know, so
 I continued.]

    I thought I was so content with my A3000 running workbench
2.04, doctor.  I mean, I had just bought my first SCSI peripheral, a
CD-ROM drive, which I hooked up to the SCSI port on the A3000.  I was
so happy, day in and day out, just browsing through the Fred Fish
disks, when it was announced.  The Amiga 4000!

["The Amiga 4000?  Tell me more."]

    I knew I had to have it, doctor.  Maybe it's an inferiority
complex.  Maybe it's just a Commodore complex.  I don't know.  I don't
know.

["You don't know?  Tell me more."]

    I think that's enough for me today, doctor.  I've got to get
going.  I've got to, uh... spell check.  That's it.  Spell check.
Gotta go now.  Bye.

(Enough is enough, isn't it?)

> (2)    Tell us about your CD-ROM drive:

(No more tangents.  I mean it.)

        Brand: NEC
        Model number: 102
        Access speed (ms): 500 ms (ave.)
        Data transfer rate (KB/sec): 150 KB/sec (ave)
        Internal or external: External

> (3)    Why did you choose this particular drive?

    'Twas cheap.

> (4)    Is your drive installed horizontally or vertically?

    Yes.  (Sorry.  Horizontally.)

>    Can your drive be installed vertically, according to the
>    documentation?

    Don't think so.

> (5)    Does your Amiga boot properly if there is no disc in the CD-ROM
>    drive?

    Yes, but it won't if it's turned off.  (The CD-ROM drive, that
    is.)  (How do you turn on a CD-ROM drive?  I don't know.  I'm
    not *THAT* desperate.)

> (6)    What software driver(s) do you use?

    (b)    CD-ROM-FS by Canadian Prototype Replicas.


>    Are you happy with the software?  Any complaints?

    It seems a bit limited in its capabilities, only being able
    to use ISO 9660 and High Sierra.  I'd like to be able to
    use Mac CD-ROM's (HFS?), as well as use more CDTV
    titles (see (8)).

> (7)    What CD-ROM discs do you own?  List title and author.

    Fred Fish Disk (1-700) - HyperMedia, I think.
    Gifs Galore - Walnut Creek
    AB20 site - Walnut Creek
    Case of the Cautious Condor - CDTV (Hey, it was only 1000 yen
                    ($8)).
    American Heritage Encyclopedie - Xiphias
    Illustrated Shakespeare - Animated Pixels, I think

> (8)    What discs have you tried, but DO NOT WORK CORRECTLY, in your CD-ROM
>     drive?  List title and author, and describe the problem briefly.

    American Heritage Encyclopedia and Complete Works of
    Shakespeare.  They ask for the CDTV bookmark thingie, which I
    don't think the CDROM-FS implements.

> (9)    What is your favorite CD-ROM disc?

    The Fred Fish disk, of course.

> (10)    Are you satisfied with your CD-ROM setup?  Any complaints?

    The drive sometimes locks up when reading large files.  I
    don't know if it's the drive or the software.  (I'm selling
    the system shortly, so I'll pass the problem onto someone
    else...)

> (11)    Any other comments?

    Yes:

    When's Blazemonger going to be available in CD-ROM?

    What's the next number in the sequence:
        1, 11, 21, 1211, 111221, ?

    Seriously:

    I think Commodore needs to take CD-ROM technology more
seriously, and work on using CD-ROM as a platform for the personal
computer, instead of focusing everything on CDTV (which seems lagging,
if not already dead. in the water, as this point).  Taking a peek into
other computer fields reveals much: the PC world has their MPC
(another buzzword); the Macs their Performas; even in Japan, the
FM-Towns (by Fujitsu) centers their computer around CD-ROMs.  My god,
even Sega is starting to use CD-ROMs!

    I think with the nearly unlimited amount of storage available
in CD-ROMs, Commodore (and its third-party software vendors) needs to
take a look and start producing more quality software taking advantage
of the Amiga's inherently advanced graphics.  (I would have liked to
added "sound," but unless they start using 12-bit/16-bit sound
technology as a base, they're going to be left behind...)

    I think I've complained long enough.  Back to Prolog...

> Thanks in advance!

    You're welcome in postscript! (Un-technologically speaking,
of course.

    Jun Akiyama

---
      [e-mail]|"There is no such thing as a moral or an immoral
   UCLA undergrad (abroad)| book.  Books are well written, or badly written.
 Tokyo Inst. of Technology| That is all."
    Nat'l Lang. Processing|    --Oscar Wilde, _The Portrait of Dorian Gray_

============================================================================
From: [e-mail]

>(1)    Tell us about your Amiga:

>        Model: 500+
>        OS version:2.0
>        SCSI controller:?

>(2)    Tell us about your CD-ROM drive:

>        Brand:A690
>        Model number:?
>        Access speed (ms):?
>        Data transfer rate (KB/sec):?
>        Internal or external:external

>(3)    Why did you choose this particular drive?

    It was the only one available at the time.

>(4)    Is your drive installed horizontally or vertically?
>    Can your drive be installed vertically, according to the
>    documentation?

    Horizontally. The documentaton doesn't mention anything about
    vertical installaton. I guess not.

>(5)    Does your Amiga boot properly if there is no disc in the CD-ROM
>    drive?

    Yes.

>(6)    What software driver(s) do you use?

>    (a)    AsimCDFS by Asimware Innovations
>    (b)    CD-ROM-FS by Canadian Prototype Replicas.
>    (c)    Xetec
>    (d)    Other (give name, vendor, and a brief description of
>        capabilities)

d (?). Builtin. Normal device like any other disc.

>    Are you happy with the software?  Any complaints?

    Works just fine under OS2.0

>(7)    What CD-ROM discs do you own?  List title and author.

    Defender Of the Crown, Cinemaware
    CDPD, Amalthea

>(8)    What discs have you tried, but DO NOT WORK CORRECTLY, in your CD-ROM
>    drive?  List title and author, and describe the problem briefly.

    None (except for a PC disk)

>(9)    What is your favorite CD-ROM disc?

    CDPD

>(10)    Are you satisfied with your CD-ROM setup?  Any complaints?

    Almost. When booting on the CD-ROM drive, computer resets when CD is
    removed. Sad, since CDPD contains workbench and all dos commands.

>(11)    Any other comments?

    When playing CD+G music CD's, can't get my machine to STOP, REW, FF
    or even return to main menu. The manual doesn't say very much about
    CD+G's.  Anyone kno how this works?

>Thanks in advance!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: How many Voodoo Instructors does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: Depends on what you want it changed into!
--
Thomas Magle Brodersen / [e-mail]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

============================================================================

From: [e-mail] (Heiko Rath)

(1)    Tell us about your Amiga:

        Model: A3000/25Mhz
        OS version: 2.1
        SCSI controller: onboard

(2)    Tell us about your CD-ROM drive:

        Brand: Apple
        Model number: CD300
        Access speed (ms): 295ms (double speed) 360ms (normal speed)
        Data transfer rate (KB/sec): 300 KB/s
        Internal or external: external

(3)    Why did you choose this particular drive?

        Because it was very cheap, supports full SCSI-II command set,
        is able to read multisession CDs (-> Photo CD), supports CD-XA
        and can read digital audio of audio CDs.

(4)    Is your drive installed horizontally or vertically?
    Can your drive be installed vertically, according to the
    documentation?

        It is installed horizontally. It doesn't mention anything about
        installing it horizontally or vertically in the documentation.,

(5)    Does your Amiga boot properly if there is no disc in the CD-ROM
    drive?

        No.

(6)    What software driver(s) do you use?

    (a)    AsimCDFS by Asimware Innovations
    (b)    CD-ROM-FS by Canadian Prototype Replicas.
    (c)    Xetec
    (d)    Other (give name, vendor, and a brief description of
        capabilities)

        (d) AmigaDOS CD-ROM file system v1.1, Copyright ) 1991 Ralph Babel,

    Are you happy with the software?  Any complaints?

        Works like a charm. The only little problem is with the diskchange, as
    it is not always detected. This is a problem of Commodores
    scsi.device.

(7)    What CD-ROM discs do you own?  List title and author.

    A570 Fish Disk Collection, Commodore
    AB20 FTP Server, Walnut Creek
    C Users Group Library, The C Users Group, Walnut Creek
    CICA Microsoft Windows FTP Server, Walnut Creek
    DEC Freeware, DEC
    Garbo MSDOS/Mac FTP Server, Walnut Creek
    GIFs Galore, Walnut Creek
    Hobbes OS/2 FTP Server, Walnut Creek
    INFO-MAC, Pacific HiTech, Walnut Creek
    Libris Britannia, PDSL, Walnut Creek
    Psygnosis DEMO CD 1992, Psygnosis
    Simtel 20 FTP Server, Walnut Creek
    Source Code CDROM, Walnut Creek
    X11R5 / GNU, Walnut Creek

(8)    What discs have you tried, but DO NOT WORK CORRECTLY, in your CD-ROM
    drive?  List title and author, and describe the problem briefly.

    Psygnosis Demo CD requires a CDTV.

(9)    What is your favorite CD-ROM disc?

    Usenet Sources, it contains all the comp.sources.* and alt.sources.*
    stuff. It's great if you're looking for some source to solve a
    problem. I also like the GIFs Galore very much, because there's such a
    great variety of pictures on it.

(10)    Are you satisfied with your CD-ROM setup?  Any complaints?

    I'm very pleased with my setup. The CDROM drive was very cheap (about
    $470 for an external SCSI drive). It is very reliable and I like it a
    lot. Even though it is from Apple :-)

(11)    Any other comments?

    I ported hpcdtoppm, a Photo CD to PPM converter. With this I'm able to
    use Photo CDs on my Amiga!
    No current CD-Play software allows for control of the audio features
    of this drive, even though this is one of the few devices that seems
    to support the standard SCSI-II audio commands. I'm currently talking
    to Franz-Josef Reichert about an update to his nice Jukebox program.
    If I can find the time, I'll write a little tool to start/stop/play
    audio CDs this week. To read some digital audio of Audio CDs I'll need
    some documentation, that Apple hasn't supplied me with so far.


                                                        Dan

P.S.: Dan, if you want me to write a review of the drive, let me know.


Cheers, Heiko
--
  // <HR> aka Heiko Rath, Raiffeisenstr.10a, D-6108 Weiterstadt, Germany
\X/  The Software Brewery |PGP-key on request| [e-mail].{de|sub.org}

============================================================================

From: [e-mail] (Eric Lavitsky)

Hi Dan,

Ok, here's my info for the CD-ROM survey:

1    Amiga:    A3000UX, running Developer Beta 3.0, A3000 SCSI

2    CD-ROM:    Pioneer DRM-604x, < 300 ms access, 612Kbytes/sec
        (sustained), external 6 disc changer.

3    I chose this drive for several reasons:
        1. It's a six-disc changer
        2. It's the only four-times speed drive on the market!

4    The drive is installed horizontally - it cannot be installed
    in a vertical position according to the documentation.

5    My Amiga does boot correctly if there is no disc in the drive.
    I set the "last drive" on my hard disc to make sure that the
    CD wasn't searched, especially since each SCSI LUN would be
    searched (I enabled LUN's in the battmem).

6    I use CD-ROM FS by Canadian Prototype Replicas exclusively,
    and am very pleased with it's performance.

7    I own a variety of discs, including most CDTV titles currently
    available (I won't list them for brevity's sake):

        Fred Fish Collection 1-800 from Hypermedia Concepts
        CATS CD 1.0
        Too Many Typefonts
        ClipArt Goliath
        Various demo discs from PC/Unix markets

8    I have tried a variety of discs pressed for SunOS which are
    not recognized by CD-ROM FS

9    My favorite disc is currently the Fred Fish collection, which
    I refer to often.

10/11    I am satisfied with my setup. I have played CDXL animations
    from my drive, with full "CDTV" frame rates. I am looking
    forward to new Amiga compatible CD titles to use on it.

--
Eric Lavitsky                BIX:      eric
Lavitsky Computer Laboratories, Inc.    Internet: [e-mail]
PO Box 7446, Somerset, NJ 08875        Phone:    [phone]

============================================================================

From: [e-mail] (Richard L. Dyson)

> (1)    Tell us about your Amiga:

        We have two Amiga setups that we have used the CD-ROM with:

        Model: A2000 (rev. 6.4) CSA-MegaMidgetRacer (68030/68882
                       @ 25 MHz) w/2 Mb 32-bit RAM
        Model: A2000 (rev. 6.4) also with vanilla 68000
        OS version: 2.05
        SCSI controller: A2091 w/ v 6.6 ROMs
                RAM: 6 Mb FastRAM, 1 Mb Chip RAM

        Model: A500 (rev. 6A) w/ AdSpeed @ 14 MHz
        OS version: 2.05
        SCSI controller: Expansion Systems DataFlyer 500
                RAM: 8 Mb FastRAM, 1 Mb Chip RAM

> (2)    Tell us about your CD-ROM drive:

        Brand: Toshiba
        Model number: TXM-3201A1
        Access speed (ms): typical ~ 350 ms
        Data transfer rate (KB/sec): average ~ 153.2 kb/s
                                             burst   ~ 1.5 Mb/s
        Internal or external: External

> (3)    Why did you choose this particular drive?

        It was purchased used and was very affordable. :)

> (4)    Is your drive installed horizontally or vertically?
>     Can your drive be installed vertically, according to the
>     documentation?

        Horizontally.  Docs say  it  can be mounted verticaly (+/- 5% of
    vertical).

> (5)    Does your Amiga boot properly if there is no disc in the CD-ROM
>     drive?

        Yes, but is very slow in starting to boot when the CD-ROM  drive
    is turned on.  Having a CD in drive does not seem to  impact  either
    way.

> (6)    What software driver(s) do you use?
>
    AsimCDFS by Asimware Innovations (v 1.1b)

>     Are you happy with the software?  Any complaints?

        Yes, but it does not seem to  work  completely  correct with the
    DataFlyer.  Access to the files is allowed  via  any CLI actions (or
    via  a  program  like  SID),  but  the workbench only  puts  up  the
    "default" RAMdisk-like icon for any CD and when you open  the  icon,
    it is empty.  The same drive, disk, and software on  the  A2091  has
    custom icons and you can launch programs from the workbench, etc.

> (7)    What CD-ROM discs do you own?  List title and author.

        "The Fred Fish Collection, v1.3" - Hypermedia Concepts, Inc.
        "Fish Market v1.0" - AsimWare Innovations
        "Defender of the Crown" - Commodore CDTV
        "Case of the Cautious Condor" - Commodore CDTV
        "The Future is Now" - EOA Sampler of IBM/Mac Software
        "NASA Space Science Sampler, Vol 2" - NASA PDS (High Sierra, level 1)
        "Solar Variability Affecting Earth, NGDC-05/1" National Geophysical
                                                       Data Center

> (8)    What discs have you tried, but DO NOT WORK CORRECTLY, in your CD-ROM
    drive?  List title and author, and describe the problem briefly.

        1991 version of "Grolier's Encyclopedia" from Commodore CDTV.

        The sound from "Defender of  the  Crown"  (above)  does not work
    when you play the game.   However,  if you treat it as an audio disk
    and use AsimTunes, you can play the 2 audio tracks.

> (9)    What is your favorite CD-ROM disc?

        The Fred Fish disks.

> (10)    Are you satisfied with your CD-ROM setup?  Any complaints?

        Yes.  For the cost of the software and the drive, it is great.

============================================================================

From: George Harvey <[e-mail]>

>(1)    Tell us about your Amiga:

        Model:            A500
        OS version:        1.3 and 2.1 (dual ROMs)
        SCSI controller:    GVP Impact II A500-HD+

>(2)    Tell us about your CD-ROM drive:

        Brand:                Hitachi
        Model number:            CDR-1750S
        Access speed (ms):        340ms
        Data transfer rate (KB/sec):    not measured
        Internal or external:        external

>(3)    Why did you choose this particular drive?

    The drive was bought about one year ago by my employer for use
    on PCs and Unix systems in the office. The Hitachi was chosen
    because it had a good access time, a SCSI interface and
    came bundled with a PC SCSI card and driver software.
    (I take it home in the evenings when I need to use it on my Amiga)

>(4)    Is your drive installed horizontally or vertically?
>    Can your drive be installed vertically, according to the
>    documentation?

    Horizontal, the manual does not say anything about vertical
    mounting.

>(5)    Does your Amiga boot properly if there is no disc in the CD-ROM
>    drive?

    Yes.

>(6)    What software driver(s) do you use?
>
>    (a)    AsimCDFS by Asimware Innovations
>    (b)    CD-ROM-FS by Canadian Prototype Replicas.
>    (c)    Xetec
>    (d)    Other (give name, vendor, and a brief description of
>        capabilities)
>
>    Are you happy with the software?  Any complaints?

    CDROM-FS version 1015 from CPR, no complaints.

>(7)    What CD-ROM discs do you own?  List title and author.

    Fred Fish Volume 1.5 from HyperMedia.
    AB20 from Walnut Creek
    Source Code CDROM from Walnut Creek

>(8)    What discs have you tried, but DO NOT WORK CORRECTLY, in your CD-ROM
>    drive?  List title and author, and describe the problem briefly.

    None.

>(9)    What is your favorite CD-ROM disc?

    Fed Fish

>(10)    Are you satisfied with your CD-ROM setup?  Any complaints?

    The GVP controller seems to be VERY sensitive about connecting
    to external devices (I have a SCSI tape as well). I can only get
    the CD drive to work after both have been powered on for about
    half an hour before connecting the CD to the GVP. It will then
    usually take several re-boots and sometimes a power-cycle before
    the Amiga will boot from the GVP hard disk. Once I have got past
    the start-up phase then everything is OK, I can use the drive for
    hours with no further problems.

    I have seen similar symptoms with two SCSI tape drives and a
    second hard disk so the problem would seem to be with my GVP
    controller rather than the external devices. (I have also tried
    different cables and terminators and while I can easily find
    combinations that do not work at all, I have not yet found a
    combination that will work reliably from a cold start)

>(11)    Any other comments?

    The Hitachi is not XA or Photo-CD compatible, this does not matter
    for present purposes but I can see that it will become important
    in the not-to-distant future.

>Thanks in advance!
>
>                                                        Dan

    Your welcome.


George Harvey
email: [e-mail]

============================================================================

From: [e-mail]

Just got a CD-ROM (the Parnet connection to a CDTV just wasn't
cutting it).

(1)    Tell us about your Amiga:

        Model: A3000
        OS version: 2.04
        SCSI controller: internal

(2)    Tell us about your CD-ROM drive:

        Brand: NEC
        Model number: CDR-25
        Access speed (ms): 600 ms
        Data transfer rate (KB/sec): 150 KB/sec
        Internal or external: external

(3)    Why did you choose this particular drive?

    It was part of a relatively inexpensive NEC package called
    "CD Express"...which comes with Mac driver software, ten
    Mac CD-ROMs, a SCSI cable, and a pair of powered speakers.
    There is a similar DOS package that comes with four CD-ROMs
    and a sound board.  Cost runs $400 to $450 (check Costco, or
    J&R Music World in NYC).

    I also have an AMAX II+, so I'm hoping to be able to use the
    CD-ROM by AMAX, and be able to run the CD-ROMs that I got with
    the package.  The early report is that the Mac driver software
    hangs AMAX on startup.  I've tried a new driver from NEC tech
    support, but so far no luck.  In comp.sys.amiga.emulations,
    reports are that other people have been able to use certain
    CD-ROM drives shared with their Amiga and AMax.

(5)    Does your Amiga boot properly if there is no disc in the CD-ROM
    drive?

    Yes.

(6)    What software driver(s) do you use?

    (a)    AsimCDFS by Asimware Innovations

    Are you happy with the software?  Any complaints?

    So far, yes, although I haven't been able to get the
    audio part with AsimTunes to work.  I have no idea if
    it's my fault or the fault of the CD-ROM drive.

(7)    What CD-ROM discs do you own?  List title and author.

    Fish Market (which came with the Asim CDFS), Walnut
    Creek's ab20 CD-ROM, and the HyperMedia Concept's
    Fish CD-ROM (v.1.6 has disks 1 to 800).

    I also have Lemmings and SimCity on order.  Since they
    are CDTV versions, they may not work.

(10)    Are you satisfied with your CD-ROM setup?  Any complaints?

    Everything has been fine so far, except for the AMax II+ trouble.

--
Guy Klose
[e-mail]

============================================================================

From: [e-mail]

>(1)    Tell us about your Amiga:
>
>        Model:  2500/30, 7Meg RAM
>        OS version: WB 2.1
>        SCSI controller: 2091
>
>(2)    Tell us about your CD-ROM drive:
>
>        Brand: Toshiba
>        Model number: 3201B
>        Access speed (ms): 330
>        Data transfer rate (KB/sec): ?
>        Internal or external: internal
>
>(3)    Why did you choose this particular drive? Price ($250, refurbished)
>
>(4)    Is your drive installed horizontally or vertically?
    Vertically.
>    Can your drive be installed vertically, according to the
>    documentation?
    Yes.
>
>(5)    Does your Amiga boot properly if there is no disc in the CD-ROM
>    drive?
    No.
>
>(6)    What software driver(s) do you use?
>
>    (a)    AsimCDFS by Asimware Innovations
>    (b)    CD-ROM-FS by Canadian Prototype Replicas.
>    (c)    Xetec
>    (d)    Other (give name, vendor, and a brief description of
>        capabilities)
    I use (b)
>
>    Are you happy with the software?  Any complaints?
    Works fine, though I can't seem to reach CPR for any info on
    updates.  Hypermedia (the Fish folks) say that the latest version
    handles PhotoCD.  I can't verify this, because I haven't heard
    about how to upgrade.  I might buy the Xetec or Asim versions,
    since I hear they offer decent support.
>
>(7)    What CD-ROM discs do you own?  List title and author.
    Desktop Library    Walnut Creek.
    AB-20        Walnut Creek
    Fish V. 1.5    Hypermedia
    CATS CDv2    CBM (developers only)
    Lemmings    Psygnosis
    Supercomputing 93 Proceedings     various authors
>
>(8)    What discs have you tried, but DO NOT WORK CORRECTLY, in your CD-ROM
>    drive?  List title and author, and describe the problem briefly.
>
>(9)    What is your favorite CD-ROM disc?
    Fish, followed by CATS
>
>(10)    Are you satisfied with your CD-ROM setup?  Any complaints?
    Yes.  None, other than CPR's poor support.  The boot thing is
    annoying, but not "terrible".  One related problem is that if
    I just leave a disk in the drive (so I can boot without worrying
    about it) the disk eventually gets too dusty to read properly.
>
>(11)    Any other comments?
    I'm looking forward to the two CDROM titles (the raytraced adventure
    and the game from Psygnosis) to "liven" up my list of games.
    I heard that, but haven't seen, that Sherlock Holmes is out on
    Amiga CDROM...

    I'd like to use the CDROM with my A-Max setup, but I hear that
    I have to buy driver software from Toshiba.  I guess I can wait
    until I need it, if ever.

============================================================================

From: [e-mail] (Ray Zarling)
>(1)    Tell us about your Amiga:
>
>        Model:
            4000
>        OS version:
            3.0
>        SCSI controller:
            GVP series II
>
>(2)    Tell us about your CD-ROM drive:
>
>        Brand:
            Toshiba
>        Model number:
            3401E
>        Access speed (ms):
            200
>        Data transfer rate (KB/sec):
            300+
>        Internal or external:
            External
>
>(3)    Why did you choose this particular drive?
            It's *fast*, and has all the forward-looking
            features like Photo-CD ready.
>
>(4)    Is your drive installed horizontally or vertically?
            Horizontally
>    Can your drive be installed vertically, according to the
>    documentation?

The docs say it can be mounted any way except upside down.

>
>(5)    Does your Amiga boot properly if there is no disc in the CD-ROM
>    drive?
            Yes.
Icons appear and disappear on workbench when cds are inserted
or removed, just as one would wish.

>(6)    What software driver(s) do you use?
>
>    (a)    AsimCDFS by Asimware Innovations
            Yes.
>    (b)    CD-ROM-FS by Canadian Prototype Replicas.
>    (c)    Xetec
            Yes.  I like this one better.
>    (d)    Other (give name, vendor, and a brief description of
>        capabilities)
>
>    Are you happy with the software?  Any complaints?
            Yes.  But most CDTV disks do not run with either
            OS 3 or an -040 or both.  This is the fault of
            the makers of the disks, not the hardware or
            driver software.
>
>(7)    What CD-ROM discs do you own?  List title and author.
            Nothing by Xiphas can handle OS 2+.
            Grollier's encyclopedia does not work.
            Connoisseur of Fine Art works fine.
            All Walnut Creek CDs work fine.
            Hypermedia Fish CDs work fine.
            CATS developer disk works fine.
>
>(8)    What discs have you tried, but DO NOT WORK CORRECTLY, in your CD-ROM
>    drive?  List title and author, and describe the problem briefly.

            See above.  Also:
Encyclopedic Dictionary
Groliers Encyclopedia
NASA 25th year
Barney Bear series
World Vista Atlas
US Atlas (almost works--keyboard/mouse work strangely)

All of the above except US Atlas fail to boot.  The drive reads the disk
just fine, however, so you can scan directories and look for interesting
data files.  The problem appears to be the 3.0 operating system and the
68040 processor; none of these titles were written with any idea that
they would need to run on other than a 1.3 68000 :-(.

Xetec claims that their software runs most of these under 2.0 on a 3000.
>
>(9)    What is your favorite CD-ROM disc?
            Walnut Creek Literature Collection CD.
>
>(10)    Are you satisfied with your CD-ROM setup?  Any complaints?
            Yes, very.
>
>(11)    Any other comments?
            Please send me a summary of your results?

The following titles work, including sound:

Connosieur of Fine Art
Cinderella
Scary Poems for Rotten Kids

Audio cds work, with Xetec's included player software.

============================================================================

From: [e-mail] (Joe Headrick)

> (1)    Tell us about your Amiga:
>
>         Model: A3000
>         OS version: 2.1
>         SCSI controller: A3000
>
> (2)    Tell us about your CD-ROM drive:
>
>         Brand: Chinon
>         Model number: 435
>         Access speed (ms): 350
>         Data transfer rate (KB/sec): 150
>         Internal or external: External
>
> (3)    Why did you choose this particular drive? Drivers came with it
>
> (4)    Is your drive installed horizontally or vertically? Horiz.
>     Can your drive be installed vertically, according to the
>     documentation? ???
>
> (5)    Does your Amiga boot properly if there is no disc in the CD-ROM
>     drive? Slow but sure
>
> (6)    What software driver(s) do you use?  (c)
>
>     (a)    AsimCDFS by Asimware Innovations
>     (b)    CD-ROM-FS by Canadian Prototype Replicas.
>     (c)    Xetec
>     (d)    Other (give name, vendor, and a brief description of
>         capabilities)
>
>     Are you happy with the software?  Any complaints? yes/no does not
                              read some disks
                              correctly
>
> (7)    What CD-ROM discs do you own?  List title and author.
      OS2, 2.1
      Windows NT
      Fish & more 1 & 2
        all below are from Walnut creek - titles ???
          Simtel-20
      GNU/X11
      Source code CDROM
      Amiga CDROM
      MSDOS CDROM ???
>
> (8)    What discs have you tried, but DO NOT WORK CORRECTLY, in your CD-ROM
>     drive?  List title and author, and describe the problem briefly.
            Windows NT postscript files get data stripped from the fromt
        (had to pullthen across the network - ethernet)
>
> (9)    What is your favorite CD-ROM disc?
          GNU/X11
>
> (10)    Are you satisfied with your CD-ROM setup?  Any complaints? Yes/none
>
> (11)    Any other comments?
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
>                                                         Dan
>
>  //////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
> | Dan Barrett -- Dept of Computer Science, Lederle Graduate Research Center |
> | University of Massachusetts, Amherst, MA  01003  --  [e-mail] |
>  \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/////////////////////////////////////
>
>
>

============================================================================

From: Dave K. Martin <[e-mail]>

(1)     Tell us about your Amiga:

                Model:           A-2000 with CSA Mega-Midget Racer (25MHZ 68030)
                OS version:      2.04
                SCSI controller: Commodore 2091

(2)     Tell us about your CD-ROM drive:

                Brand:                       Toshiba
                Model number:                XM-3201
                Access speed (ms):           350
                Data transfer rate (KB/sec): 150
                Internal or external:        Internal (installed in an external                                                        box)

(3)     Why did you choose this particular drive?
       Price, $215 (Factory refurbished unit)


(4)     Is your drive installed horizontally or vertically?
       Horizontally
        Can your drive be installed vertically, according to the documentation?
       Yes

(5)     Does your Amiga boot properly if there is no disc in the CD-ROM drive?
       No, there is a 30 second delay before the boot if the CD drive is
       powered up.  With the CD poweered off, the boot is normal.

(6)     What software driver(s) do you use?

        (c)     Xetec
       Version 1.61

        Are you happy with the software?  Any complaints?
       Quite happy, no complaints.  The installation and ease of setup were
       amazing.

(7)     What CD-ROM discs do you own?  List title and author.

      Amiga titles                                    Publisher
      ------------                                    -------------------
      Fish & More, volumes 1 and 2                    Xetec
      Fred Fish Collection on CD-ROM  volume 1.4      Hypermedia Concepts
      Fred Fish Collection On-Line    volume 1.4      Hypermedia Concepts
      AB20 Amiga CDROM                                Walnut Creek

      CDTV titles                                     Publisher
      ------------                                    -------------------
      Advanced Military Systems                       Dominion
      Heroic Age Of Spaceflight (Nasa the 25th year)  Troika

      MS-DOS titles                                   Publisher
      -------------                                   -------------------
      Simtel 20 MSDOS Archive CDROM                   Walnut Creek
      Hall of Fame CDROM Vol 1 (MS-DOS shareware)     Ellis Enterprises
      Shareware Overload                              Chestnut Software
      Shareware Gold II                               Sherbourne Knowledge
                                                      Systems
      Jets & Props (PC and Mac format on disc)        Aris Entertainment
      Worldview    (PC and Mac format on disc)        Aris Entertainment
      Our Solar System                                Chestnut Software
      Gifs Galore                                     Walnut Creek
      The New Grolier Electronic Encyclopedia         Grolier Incorporated


(8)     What discs have you tried, but DO NOT WORK CORRECTLY, in your CD-ROM
        drive?  List title and author, and describe the problem briefly.

      The New Grolier Electronic Encyclopedia
      - CD has one *HUGE* file on it, without the retrieval software no data
        can be read.  I have MS-DOS software but none exists for the Amiga.

      Kodak Photo-CD Image Sampler
      - Amiga does not recognize disc at all, it does not show up
        in INFO command.

      Guinness World Records CD (for MS-DOS
      - Unable to read the data files, the GIF files would not display properly.

(9)     What is your favorite CD-ROM disc?

      For best value for money it has to be the Fred Fish collection from
      Hypermedia.  For entertainment it is the Advanced Military Systems.

(10)    Are you satisfied with your CD-ROM setup?  Any complaints?
      I am very satisfied with my CD-ROM, it gives me access to incredible
      amounts of data in a relatively inexpensive format.

      Complaints:
      -----------
      The CD-ROM drive cannot be accessed by my Vortex 486SLC board.  I'll
      probably have to get a SCSI controller and switch the CD-ROM between
      systems.  Until then I'll continue copying files to a shared Amiga/MS-DOS
      partition using CrossDos.

      CD-XL animations from CDTV discs cannot be played on a non-CDTV system.


(11)    Any other comments?

      An image processing package such as ADPRO by ASDG is invaluable for
      exploring MS-DOS CD's.

Hope this is helpful...

Dave Martin - [e-mail]

============================================================================

From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <[e-mail]>

>(1)    Tell us about your Amiga:

        Model:    A2500
        OS version:        2.0
        SCSI controller:     IVS Trumpcard Pro.

>(2)    Tell us about your CD-ROM drive:

        Brand:            Toshiba
        Model number:         XM3301
        Access speed (ms):    200
        Data transfer rate (KB/sec):    300
        Internal or external:    Internal

>(3)    Why did you choose this particular drive?

I had one already in my PC and I'm very happy with it.  It's never
given me any trouble.  In retrospect, one of the big reasons I bought
the XM series was the CD XA capability, but to my knowledge I've yet
to actually it!  No titles (for the PC) appear to take advantage of it
yet.

>(4)    Is your drive installed horizontally or vertically?

Horizontally, in the 5.25 floppy slot.  I had to displace my tape
drive to do this and I'm still considering the wisdom of doing so.

>    Can your drive be installed vertically, according to the
>    documentation?

Yes.

>(5)    Does your Amiga boot properly if there is no disc in the CD-ROM
>    drive?

Yes.

>(6)    What software driver(s) do you use?

>    (a)    AsimCDFS by Asimware Innovations

I *would* use this if they'd &%$^$%# ship it to me already.  It's
about a month late, with them claiming they shipped it and I should be
patient because "canadian mail is slow".  I have my suspicions.

>    Are you happy with the software?  Any complaints?

See above.  It's supposed to work fine, based on what I've heard on
the net.  I will send you an update on this if it fails to work as
advertised.

>(7)    What CD-ROM discs do you own?  List title and author.

Walnut Creek:
    GNU + X11 collection.
    AB20 Amiga CDROM.

Hypermedia:
    Fred fish collection, volume 1.5
    Fred fish "Fish Online" version 1.5

Misc:
    HP Laserpro collection.
    Acorn replay disk (video clips).
    30 or so CDTV titles - too many to list.
    Many CD-I titles (not relevant).

>(8)    What discs have you tried, but DO NOT WORK CORRECTLY, in your CD-ROM
>    drive?  List title and author, and describe the problem briefly.

Well, using my CDTV as a PARNET reader the only title I had trouble with was
the AB20 collection (couldn't read it).  I suppose I should keep my mouth
shut until the software arrives and I can say whether or not this fixes
anything.  If this review is premature, simply file it and I'll send you
updated information for anything that's changed about my situation in light
of actual possesion of the drivers.

>(9)    What is your favorite CD-ROM disc?

GNU + X11R5 is my most used, though it generally stays mounted on the PC.
My CDTV "Advanced Weapons Systems" CD has some good clips, which I've pulled
off and done a little artwork with.  I have to admit that all the CD's I
*really* enjoy are on my CD-I.  I've not bothered trying to read any CD-I
titles on the CDTV since I don't see the point.

>(10)    Are you satisfied with your CD-ROM setup?  Any complaints?

Other than above, no.

>(11)    Any other comments?

I think the only real advantage to having a CD drive in the amiga is
to access software collections, like the GNU, Fish or AB20 archive
CD's.  CDTV titles, frankly speaking, do not live up to the promise of
"multimedia" at all and one is much better off using things like
"Microsoft Bookshelf" for Windows if one wants reference material, or
just about any of the CD-I titles for games, reference or recreation.
The very very best of the current CDTV titles are no better than the
very worst of the CD-I titles I have!  (Bitter?  Oh, a little - I have
two CDTVs).

>Thanks in advance!

No sweat.

                Jordan

============================================================================

From: [e-mail] (Sebastian Hill)

(1)    Tell us about your Amiga:

        Model:            Amiga 2000 Rev 4.1
        OS version:        Workbench 2.1
        SCSI controller:    G-FORCE 030/25 SCSI II.

(2)    Tell us about your CD-ROM drive:

        Brand:                Toshiba
        Model number:            XM-3401
        Access speed (ms):        200ms
        Data transfer rate (KB/sec):    330KB/sec
        Internal or external:        External

(3)    Why did you choose this particular drive?

Price and Magazine reviews.

(4)    Is your drive installed horizontally or vertically?
    Can your drive be installed vertically, according to the
    documentation?

The drive is mounted horizontally. The documentation says that it can
be used horizontally or vertically.

(5)    Does your Amiga boot properly if there is no disc in the CD-ROM
    drive?

YES

(6)    What software driver(s) do you use?

AsimCDFS by Asimware Innovations

    Are you happy with the software?  Any complaints?

Happy with the current software, but hoping for more CDTV support in the
future.

(7)    What CD-ROM discs do you own?  List title and author.

    FRED FISH CD, ASIMWARE.
    GIFS GALORE, Walnut Creek.
    AB20 Archives, Walnut Creek.
    The Case of the Cautious(sp?) Condor

(8)    What discs have you tried, but DO NOT WORK CORRECTLY, in your CD-ROM
    drive?  List title and author, and describe the problem briefly.

(9)    What is your favorite CD-ROM disc?

    FRED FISH CD.

(10)    Are you satisfied with your CD-ROM setup?  Any complaints?

    I love the CD unit. Nice design. I wish that more software was CDTV
        and CDROM compatible.

(11)    Any other comments?

    I'm hoping that more developers produce CDTV and CD-ROM amiga
    software.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  // Amiga 2000/30/100hd/9megs // Sebastian Hill email:[e-mail]
\X/ Amiga 1200/20/80hd/6Megs \X/ Computervision San Diego, CA
   Toshiba XM3401 + Parnet <--- Still waiting for Workbench for Workgroups
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
============================================================================

From: [e-mail] (D. Scott Baeder)

[NOTE: This is an update from a response to 1992's survey.]

> >|> (1)    Tell us about your Amiga:
> >|>
> >|>         Model: a2500 (68030 w/ 4 Meg Ram)
> >|>         OS version: 2.0
> >|>         SCSI controller: HardFrame and 2091
> >|>

same...

> >|> (2)    Tell us about your CDROM drive:
> >|>
> >|>         Brand: Chinon (I think)

still a chinon...There was some info posted on the xetec bbs about
getting them (ie chinon) to do a free upgrade to a photo-cd compat,
but havent called about that yet...

> >|>         Model number:  ??
> >|>         Access speed (ms): ??
> >|>         Data transfer rate (kb/sec): ??
> >|>         Internal or external: Internal
> >|>
> >|> (3)    Why did you choose this particular drive?
> >Bought it from Xetec as part of a package
> >|>
> >|> (4)    Is your drive installed horizontally or vertically?
> >|>     Can your drive be installed vertically, according to the
> >|>     documentation?
> >Internal, so its Hz...don't know about vertical
> >|>
> >|> (5)    What software driver do you use?
> >|>
> >|>     (a)    CDROM-FS by Canadian Prototype Replicas.
> >|>     (b)    California Access
> >|>     (c)    Xetec
> >Xetec...I try to stay current on the revision by DL'ing from their
> >BBS...I think I'm on 1.54

just DL'd a new version last week...I think its 1.62 or 1.63...they
have been great about improving it such that it now can read mac disks
too...

> >
> >|>     (d)    Other (give name, vendor, and a brief description of
> >|>         capabilities)
> >|>
> >|> (6)    What CDROM discs do you own?  List title and author.

> >Got 2 Fish&More from Xetec with the drive, also case of the condor,
> >and world vista (cdtv) disks as part of bonus package for buying at a
> >World of Amiga...
> >
> >Have also bought the HyperMedia Fish disk, and the recently offered
> >AB20 archive disk.
> >

no new disks...just been too damn busy to even play much...have kept
up with the hypermedia stuff thru subscription...

> >|>
> >|> (7)    What discs have you tried, but DO NOT WORK, in your CDROM drive?
> >|>     List title and author, and describe the problem briefly.
> >None...
> >|>
> >|> (8)    What is your favorite CDROM disc?
> >Hard to say...Having all the Fish stuff on-line is great...I think the
> >Xetec stuff is easier to "browse", because they organized it...the
> >Hypermedia disk is organized by Fish Disk, and you need to use
> >Aquarium or other tool to really browse around...
> >
> >|>
> >|> (9)    Are you satisfied?  Any complaints?

> >Satisfied...Minor complaint...the HardFrame (at least mine, even with
> >the 1.9 firmware upgrade) seemed to have some problems in dealing with
> >AUDIO cd's...None with the 2091...NOTE: this is really a minor NIT,
> >and it wouldn't stop me from getting a drive if I had the HF
> >controller.


according to xetec, they fixed some of the problems in audio disks
with the HF controller, but I haven't bothered re-cabling it to
verify.
> >
> >|>
> >|> (10)    Any other comments?
> >I think Xetec is trying to do a lot to improve the compatibility of
> >their software to the cdtv, and include drivers to emulate the
> >bookmark, etc.
> >
> >I have seen an add for driver software that can also read MAC HFS
> >disks, in addition to the ISO9660 standard...I may get it just to give
> >it a try...
> >

Well as mentioned above, xetec added it in, and they also now sell
just the driver software, and the two fish disks for $50...


I think thats it...I'm going to WOC in NY this weekend, and if I get
anything fancy/new in the CD area I'll drop you a note....Keep up the
good work...I enjoyed last years CD summary, and the other things
you've posted.

Scott

============================================================================

From: [e-mail] (Paul Huxham)

(1) Tell us about your Amiga:

    Amiga 4000 / 040
    KS 3.0 version 39.106  Workbench version 39.29
    GVP Series II  V4.4 driver

(2) Tell us about your CD-ROM drive:

    Chinon
    Model CDS-431
    Access speed 350ms
    Data transfer rate 150 K/B sec
    Internal drive

(3) Why did you choose this particular drive?

    1) Electronic soft eject.
    2) Supports audio CDs.
    3) Priced right. AUS$550
    4) Supported by AsimCDFS software.  At the time, the CPR software didnt
       support CHINON.

(4) Is your drive installed horizontally or vertically?

    Horizontally

(4a) Can your drive be installed vertically, according to the documentation?

    No, it must be mounted horizontally.

(5) Does your Amiga boot properly if there is no disc in the CD-ROM
    drive?

    Yes

(6) What software driver(s) do you use?

    (a) AsimCDFS by Asimware Innovations
    (b) CD-ROM-FS by Canadian Prototype Replicas.
    (c) Xetec
    (d) Other (give name, vendor, and a brief description of
        capabilities)

   I use AsimCDFS.

(6a) Are you happy with the software?

  I would like developers documentation for their filesystem, but I believe
this  is  available  on  request  (I',m  not  sure :-).  Its a problem just
talking  to  companies  overseas when you live in Australia as they have no
local  support  companies,  only  distributors  that don't want to know you
after you've purchased the product.

(6b) Any complaints?

  No. The software functions flawlessly.

(7) What CD-ROM discs do you own?  List title and author.

GIFs Galore CDROM                     - Walnut Creek CDROM
Destop Library CDROM                  - Walnut Creek CDROM
AB20 Amiga CDROM                      - Walnut Creek CDROM
Extreme XXX                           - Extreme Software
Storm II Giflited GIFs                - Unknown (Just a CDROM in a jewel case)
Too Many TypeFonts                    - Chestnut CDROM
Fred Fish CDROM                       - HyperMedia Concepts
New Basics Electronic CookBook        - Xiphias (CDTV)
Time Table of Science and Innovation  - Xiphias (CDTV)
Time Table Business, Politics & Media - Xiphias (CDTV)
Knowledege Media Graphics 1           - Knowledge Media
Knowledege Media Audio 1              - Knowledge Media
Nautlius (1 Year subscription)        - Nautilus (MultiMedia CDROM)


(8) What discs have you tried, but DO NOT WORK CORRECTLY, in your CD-ROM
    drive?  List title and author, and describe the problem briefly.

    The CDTV disks (The Xiphias ones) need to have assignments made so they
appear   as  the  SYS:   drive  and  then  execute  their  starup-sequence.
Otherwise no probs there.

    The  only  CDs  that  don't  "work"  are  the  PC  ones,  like Too Many
TypeFonts, that I only want the fonts off of anyway.  The PC programs don't
matter to me.

(9) What is your favorite CD-ROM disc?

    AB20 Amiga CDROM

(10) Are you satisfied with your CD-ROM setup?

     Yes

(10a) Any complaints?

      I  wish that the program JukeBox would support the Chinon CDROM drive
and/or I could register with someone in Australia.  Sending bank cheques is
a  major  hassle (Despite what everyone says).  Even if I could use my VISA
card there would be no problems.

(11)    Any other comments?

Yes,  some useful info on making the GVP Series II controller work properly
wihtout having a hard disk connected as well as the CDROM drive.

I  found  that when I removed my harddisk from the GVP Series II controller
card  (I  bought  a 4000, so had no use for the harddisk and sold it), with
only  the  CDROM  connected,  the Amiga took about 30-40 seconds to boot up
(with or without a CD in the drive).

What  was  happening was that the controller was looking for each and every
possible  SCSI  device.   Normally when you have a hard disk connected, you
set  the  Last  Unit  flag in the RDB and the controller virtually boots up
straight away.  With the CDROM however, there is no RDB.

The  solution  was  to disable autobooting on the controller.  However this
means that the ROM based driver is never loaded.  And trying to force a ROM
to configure after boot up is beyond me.

What  I  did  was  copy  the device driver from the GVP install disk to the
expansion  drawer  and  used  'binddrivers'  to  load  the  driver.  The is
actually better than using the ROM based verion because:

1) You can always user the latest version of the driver software.

2) You don't have to boot the driver if you need the memory, You just drag
   it out of the Expansion drawer.

3) The driver is always loaded into 32bit RAM.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Paul Huxham                     //  Long has been the road behind me   |
| PO BOX 875                     //  and many a change have I seen.      |
| Morley, Perth                 //  Its been so long I often wonder      |
| Western Australia 6062    \\ //  if this is just a dream.              |
| [e-mail] \\/                  <Paul Huxham (C) 1992> |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

============================================================================

From: [e-mail] (Thorsten Meyer)

>(1)    Tell us about your Amiga:
>
>               Model:
                      A2000
>               OS version:
                Kick: 37.175 WB: 38.28

>               SCSI controller:
                GVP II SCSI
>
>(2)    Tell us about your CD-ROM drive:
>
>               Brand:
                Toshiba
>               Model number: 3301
>               Access speed (ms):
>               Data transfer rate (KB/sec):
>               Internal or external: external
>
>(3)    Why did you choose this particular drive? Best Testresults in the past!
>
>(4)    Is your drive installed horizontally or vertically? hori.
>       Can your drive be installed vertically, according to the
>       documentation?
>
>(5)    Does your Amiga boot properly if there is no disc in the CD-ROM
>       drive? Yes no Problem
>
>(6)    What software driver(s) do you use?   b Version:.702
>
>       (a)     AsimCDFS by Asimware Innovations
>       (b)     CD-ROM-FS by Canadian Prototype Replicas.
>       (c)     Xetec
>       (d)     Other (give name, vendor, and a brief description of
>               capabilities)
>
>       Are you happy with the software?  Any complaints? Yes! good Software
>
>(7)    What CD-ROM discs do you own?  List title and author.
    1. Danger Hot Stuff from Screen Artists
    2. COMMODORE AMIGA CDTV "Hoeren und Sehen" from Commodore
    3. AB20 Amiga CDROM from Walnut Creek
    4. Fred Fish Collection  Version 1.6 from Hypermedia Concepts
    5. Sim City from Infogrames
    6. World Vista from Rand McNally
    7. Software Store Volume 1 for Ultrix from Highland Software
    8. MS WINDOWS CDROM April 1992 from Walnut Creek
    9. Simtel20 MSDOS ARCHIVE January 1992 from Walnut Creek
   10. Desktop Library CDROM 1ST Edition from Walnut Creek
   11. Source CDROM Mar 92 from Walnut Creek
   12. Voyagers to the Outer Planets Volume 1-12 from NASA

>
>(8)    What discs have you tried, but DO NOT WORK CORRECTLY, in your CD-ROM
>       drive?  List title and author, and describe the problem briefly.

No 2., not compatible
>
>(9)    What is your favorite CD-ROM disc?

No 4. Fred Fish

>
>(10)   Are you satisfied with your CD-ROM setup?  Any complaints? Yes
>
>(11)   Any other comments?
Seeya,
         Thorsten
Thorsten Meyer [phone] [e-mail]
--      Bundyland: the happiest place on Earth  --      --      --

============================================================================

From: "Mark J. Lednor" <[e-mail]>

(1)    Tell us about your Amiga:

        Model:                          A3000T
        OS version:                     2.04
        SCSI controller:                A3000 builtin

(2)    Tell us about your CD-ROM drive:

        Brand:                          TOSHIBA
        Model number:                   XM3301
        Access speed (ms):              ?
        Data transfer rate (KB/sec):    ?
        Internal or external:           INTERNAL

(3)    Why did you choose this particular drive?

    Came as a package including CD Access software, quite cheap.

(4)    Is your drive installed horizontally or vertically?       HORIZONTALLY
    Can your drive be installed vertically, according to the  YES
    documentation?

(5)    Does your Amiga boot properly if there is no disc in the CD-ROM
    drive?
                                                              YES
(6)    What software driver(s) do you use?

    (a)    AsimCDFS by Asimware Innovations
    (b)    CD-ROM-FS by Canadian Prototype Replicas.
    (c)    Xetec                                                 XETEC
    (d)    Other (give name, vendor, and a brief description of
        capabilities)

    Are you happy with the software?  Any complaints?

    Happy with the software, BUT it only installs as SYS:XetecCDROM and
    nowhere else.

(7)    What CD-ROM discs do you own?  List title and author.

    Almathera Systems' "CDPD"
    Almathera Systems' "CDPD2"

    Chestnut CD-ROM's "The Complete Bookshop"

    Walnut Creek's "CICA MicroSoft Windows CDROM"
    Walnut Creek's "The C Users' Group Library CDROM"
    Walnut Creek's "GIFs Galore CDROM"
    Walnut Creek's "Source Code CDROM"
    Walnut Creek's "X11R5 GNU CDROM"

    Xetec's "Fish and More: Vol. I"
    Xetec's "Fish and More: Vol. II"


(8)    What discs have you tried, but DO NOT WORK CORRECTLY, in your CD-ROM
    drive?  List title and author, and describe the problem briefly.

    NONE

(9)    What is your favorite CD-ROM disc?

    Almathera's CDPD2

(10)    Are you satisfied with your CD-ROM setup?  Any complaints?

    YES, NO COMPLAINTS

(11)    Any other comments?

    NO
--
WhoAmI   : Mark Lednor, Senior Programmer, Eurotherm plc  Disclaimer:
InterNet : [e-mail] (also mlednor@cix)    My Money, My Views
FidoNet  : Mark Lednor @ 2:253/500 (01 for Amiga)           ... My Fault!

============================================================================

From: Mark Davis <[e-mail]>

(1)    Tell us about your Amiga:

        Model: A2000 with GVP A3001 (8Mb 32-bit mem)
        OS version: V2.1
        SCSI controller: A2091(controls CDROM) & GVP Series II (Drives)

(2)    Tell us about your CD-ROM drive:

        Brand: DEC (Sony)
        Model number: RRD42 (CDU-541)
        Access speed (ms): 300
        Data transfer rate (KB/sec): 150
        Internal or external: external

(3)    Why did you choose this particular drive?
        DEC employee - got a good deal.

(4)    Is your drive installed horizontally or vertically?
    Can your drive be installed vertically, according to the
    documentation?

    Either way.

(5)    Does your Amiga boot properly if there is no disc in the CD-ROM
    drive?

    With the A2091 there is a 30-40 second pause when booting if no disc is
    present.

(6)    What software driver(s) do you use?

    (c)    Xetec

    Are you happy with the software?  Any complaints?

    The Xetec CDFS works great whether using Audio or Data CDs.  Directory
Opus sometimes will not
list all directories on the disc so I usually have to get a directory
listing from the Shell to verify DirOpus' output.  I've only used one CDTV
disc and it works fine.  ImageMaster v9.50 from Black Belt Systems seems to
have a problem loading GIFS from the cdrom drive.  It crashes or hangs my
system and generates numerous enforcer hits when attempting to load from the
cd.  Imagemaster loads from the hard drive(s) fine (most times).

(7)    What CD-ROM discs do you own?  List title and author.

    GIFS-GALORE     Walnut Creek
    Lemmings DCTV   psygnosis
    Fish & more volumes I-II
    Panoramix (Mac cd) - forgot author

(8)    What discs have you tried, but DO NOT WORK CORRECTLY, in your CD-ROM
    drive?  List title and author, and describe the problem briefly.

    All discs work fine.
(9)    What is your favorite CD-ROM disc?

(10)    Are you satisfied with your CD-ROM setup?  Any complaints?

        Yes.  Too bad there are not more Amiga specific cd titles

(11)    Any other comments?

mark davis
[e-mail]
[e-mail]

============================================================================

From: [e-mail] (Ed Brown)

> (1)     Tell us about your Amiga:
>
>                 Model:
>                 OS version:
>                 SCSI controller:


        A3000 25-300  Wb_2.1  on-board SCSI interface


> (2)     Tell us about your CD-ROM drive:
>
>                 Brand:
>                 Model number:
>                 Access speed (ms):
>                 Data transfer rate (KB/sec):
>                 Internal or external:

        Chinon CDS-431; 350 msec; 150 kb/sec; external


> (3)     Why did you choose this particular drive?

        It was recommended by the CDROM driver software developer and also
        because of familiarity with other Chinon products that have worked
        well.


> (4)     Is your drive installed horizontally or vertically?
>         Can your drive be installed vertically, according to the
>         documentation?

        Drive installed horizontally.  Manual does not mention vertical
        installation.


> (5)     Does your Amiga boot properly if there is no disc in the CD-ROM
>         drive?

        No.  If there is no disk in the drive, there is about a 2 minute
        delay in the bootup sequence.  Eventually, something times out
        and a normal boot ensues.  I have the CDROM drive set to SCSI
        ID #0.  Perhaps raising this to #6 and placing it above the
        address of by bootable HD will eliminate this requirement.  This
        also happens on some computers with removable media drives, such
        as the Syquest and Ricoh drives.


> (6)     What software driver(s) do you use?
>
>         (a)     AsimCDFS by Asimware Innovations


        > Are you happy with the software?  Any complaints?

        The software is pretty decent.  I would like better compatibility
        with the CDTV via software and I'd also like to be able to run the
        CDXL disks, such as the NASA 25th Year disk.  Also, the CD music
        player program could use some tweaking.  I'd like to be able to
        program in which tracks are played on a given CD, as well as be
        able to loop certain tracks and skip others.


> (7)     What CD-ROM discs do you own?  List title and author.

        Fish Market (Disks #1-637)  Asimware
        AB20    Walnut Creek CDROM
        GIFs Galore     Walnut Creek CDROM
        XXX Extreme     Extreme Software (purchased from ERM)
        Too Many Type Fonts     Chestnut CD-ROM
        Clipart Goliath            "       "
        Volcano         (purchased from ERM - manufacturer unknown)

        Also have several music CDs ranging from sound effects, relaxation/
        mood music, 60's rock, and some classical.


> (8)     What discs have you tried, but DO NOT WORK CORRECTLY, in your
CD-ROM
>         drive?  List title and author, and describe the problem briefly.

        So far I have only used relatively generic disks and have had no
        compatibility probs.  Once Asimware's CDROM software v2.0 comes
        out, I may get a bit braver with buying disks to see if they work.
        For now, no dealer I've asked will guarantee compatibility of
        CDTV disks in an Amiga/CDROM drive system... not even on an
        exchange basis.  They normally do not know which CDs will work
        on my system and are not interested in finding out.  :-(
        This is the #1 reason for reduced CDROM drive/disk sales, IMHO.


> (9)     What is your favorite CD-ROM disc?

        It's a tie between the Fish Market and the GIFs Galore disks,
        with the XXX Extreme running 3rd.


> (10)    Are you satisfied with your CD-ROM setup?  Any complaints?

        Very satisfied so far.  Eventually, I will be sharing the CDROM
        drive between an A3000 and a 386-40 clone.  Chinon *should* have
        included a *standard* SCSI interface with the drive instead of
        their proprietary interface that "may or may not work with SCSI
        devices other than the Chinon CDS-431".  Their interface also
        has a D-37F plug on the end for "external" installations.  How
        about a D-25F plug?  That would certainly make connecting to
        standard SCSI devices a LOT simpler/easier/faster/cheaper. :-(


> (11)    Any other comments?

        CBM needs to be MUCH more interested in Amiga+CDROM and LESS
        interested in their idiotic CDTV, IMHO.  CDTV has not sold very
        well and probably never will.  There are already 4MM Amigas out
        there and every one of them *could* be a CDROM drive customer.
        Few who already have an Amiga will buy a CDTV and fewer still
        who don't own an Amiga will buy a CDTV.  CDTV will not survive
        without a thriving software base... which will not be developed
        for the small number of CDTVs that are being sold.  If a lot
        of Amigas had CDROM drives on them that could run CDTV disks,
        developers would be MUCH more interested in developing for
        *BOTH* types of machine.


Regards,


* Edward E. Brown II             * Internet: [e-mail] *
* Chemist On A Mission From GOD! * FidoNet: 1:105/135                *
*--------------------------------------------------------------------*
               Annoy the media...Think for yourself!

============================================================================

From: [e-mail] (Paul Kolenbrander)

> (1)    Tell us about your Amiga:
>
>         Model:             A4000/040 2MB chip / 8MB fast
>         OS version:        3.0 (Kick 39.106 / WB 39.29)
>         SCSI controller:   A2091 rev. 4 modified 7.0b ROM's
>
second identical CD-ROM drive is on the below configuration (Friend
with no UseNet access)

>         Model:             A2000 1MB chip / 4MB fast
>         OS version:        2.04
>         SCSI controller:   GVP Series-II with 4.5 ROM
>
> (2)    Tell us about your CD-ROM drive:
>
>         Brand:             Matshusita
>         Model number:      CR-501 1.0c ROM
>         Access speed (ms): ?
>         Data transfer rate (KB/sec): ?
>         Internal or external: External
>
> (3)    Why did you choose this particular drive?

        Pricing. It's a drive OEMmed to Unisys and comes in a nice
        external case with all the fittings. At US$ 260,- it is by
        far cheaper than other SCSI CD-ROM's available here in the
        Netherlands. And Unisys generally uses quality equipment.
>
> (4)    Is your drive installed horizontally or vertically?
>     Can your drive be installed vertically, according to the
>     documentation?

        Horizontallty. Documantation doesn't say...

> (5)    Does your Amiga boot properly if there is no disc in the CD-ROM
>     drive?

        Yes and no. It waits a while. but this is not due to the CD-ROM
        but the A2091. On a GVP series-II there is no delay...

> (6)    What software driver(s) do you use?
>
>     (b)    CD-ROM-FS by Canadian Prototype Replicas.
>     (c)    Xetec (v 1.63)
>
>     Are you happy with the software?  Any complaints?

Very. Works like a charm. And xetec nicely answered my fax asking if their
package supported the above two systems. No major flaws apart from some
minor display problems in the install program and a tendency to not fully
play a track on audio CD's...

> (7)    What CD-ROM discs do you own?  List title and author.

GIF Galore                      Walnut Creek.
Simtel20                        Walnut Creek.
AB20                            Walnut Creek.
Danger! Hot Stuff 1             Screen Artists.
Fish & More vol. I              Xetec
Fish & More vol. II             Xetec

> (8)    What discs have you tried, but DO NOT WORK CORRECTLY, in your CD-ROM
>     drive?  List title and author, and describe the problem briefly.

None sofar.

> (9)    What is your favorite CD-ROM disc?

GIF Galore.          It's a treasure chest of useful pictures. Especially
                     on an AGA machine.
Danger! Hot Stuff 1. Full of really good animations. Unfortunately in
                     MS-DOS fli format mostly. (Runs on my 386-40 tho)

> (10)    Are you satisfied with your CD-ROM setup?  Any complaints?

No complaints...
>
> (11)    Any other comments?

I heartily recommend the Xetec CD-ROM Filesystem. It works like a charm and
v1.63 is rewritten to be 2.1/3.0 aware...

> Thanks in advance!

You're welcome... Any chance of e-mailing me a copy of the list when it comes
out? My feed does not supply c.s.a.announce unfortunately...

CYa, Paul
--
Paul Kolenbrander  \ InterNet: [e-mail]
Turfveldenstraat 37 \ Fido: 2:284/112.1 Paul Kolenbrander
NL-5632 XH EINDHOVEN | - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Voice: [phone] | Timezone:GMT+1 | Fax: [phone]

============================================================================

From: [e-mail] (Per Bojsen)

> (1)   Tell us about your Amiga:
>
>               Model: A3000
>               OS version: 2.04
>               SCSI controller:
>
> (2)   Tell us about your CDROM drive:
>
>               Brand: Toshiba
>               Model number: XM-3301BC
>               Access speed (ms): 325
>               Data transfer rate (kb/sec): 150 (1.5MB/s max async burst)
>               Internal or external: external
>
> (3)   Why did you choose this particular drive?

        Special developer offer from CATS.

> (4)   Is your drive installed horizontally or vertically?
>       Can your drive be installed vertically, according to the
>       documentation?

        The drive is installed horizontally.
        The internal version of the drive can be installed vertically
        in both orientations.

> (5)   What software driver do you use?
>
>       (a)     CDROM-FS by Canadian Prototype Replicas.
>       (b)     California Access
>       (c)     Xetec
>       (d)     Other (give name, vendor, and a brief description of
>               capabilities)

        a

> (6)   What CDROM discs do you own?  List title and author.

        CATS Developer CD V1.0
        HyperMedia Concepts, Inc.: The Fred Fish Collection on CD ROM Vol 1.4

> (7)   What discs have you tried, but DO NOT WORK, in your CDROM drive?
>       List title and author, and describe the problem briefly.

        Sun's Catalyst CDware Europe (a disk with demo software for Sun
                                      computers)

        Probably doesn't work due to UNIX filesystem.  The disk is marked
        as bad by the CD-ROM FS.

> (8)   What is your favorite CDROM disc?

        The FF disc.

> (9)   Are you satisfied?  Any complaints?

        I'm satisfied.  The CDDA control utility that comes with the
        CD-ROM FS is a little buggy.

> (10)  Any other comments?
>
> (11)  Do you know of any recent magazine article that reviews and compares
>       lots of different CDROM drives (for any computer)?

--
"There had been something loose about the          // Greetings from Per Bojsen
 station dock all morning, skulking in            // cbmehq!lenler!bojsen
 amongst the gantries and the lines and the   \\ // [e-mail]
 canisters which were waiting to be moved ..." \X/ [e-mail]

============================================================================

From: [e-mail] (Joseph Korczynski)

>>(1)     Tell us about your Amiga:
>>
>>              Model: Amiga 2000 (v6.2 motherboard) 1 internal floppy,
>>                     1 external floppy, 1 MEG CHIP RAM
>>                     2320 Display Enhancer
>>              OS Version: 2.04 ROM
>>              SCSI controller: GVP 22Mhz Combo  (9MB 32bit)
>>                               105MB Quantum, 44MB SyQuest

        Model: Amiga 4000-040, 1 internal floppy, 120MB IDE
               2MB 32-bit Chip, 12MB 32-bit Fast RAM
        OS Version: 3.0 ROM
        SCSI controller: Commodore 2091 V6.6ROM, 2MB RAM
                 44MB SyQuest

>>(2)     Tell us about your CDROM drive:
>>
>>              Brand: Chinon
>>              Model number:  CDX-431
>>              Access speed (ms): 350
>>              Data transfer rate (kb/sec):  ????
>>              Internal or external: External
>>
>>(3)     Why did you choose this particular drive?
>>
>>      Xetec provided this drive as a complete package (plug-n-play).
>>
>>(4)     Is your drive installed horizontally or vertically?
>>      Can your drive be installed vertically, according to the
>>      documentation?
>>
>>      The drive is mounted horizontally in an external case.
>>
>>(5)     What software driver do you use?

>>       >(c)     Xetec V1.76
          This adds support for reading MAC formatted roms (HFS).
          I have not tested this feature.

>>
>>(6)     What CDROM discs do you own?  List title and author.

>>      Fred Fish Online - Hypermedia Concepts
>>      Fred Fish Collection - Hypermedia Concepts
>>      NASA 25th Year   - Troika Multimedia
>>      Space Wars       - Odyssey Software
>>      AB20 Archive     - Walnut Creek CD-ROM
    GIFS Galore      - Walnut Creek CD-ROM
    Garbo May 1992   - Walnut Creek CD-ROM
    Simtel 20 June 1992 - Walnut Creek CD-ROM
    DeskTop Library August 1992 - Walnut Creek CD-ROM
    VGA Spectrum     - S&S Enterprises
    Ham Radio        - ChestNut CD-ROM
    ClipArt Goliath  - ChestNut CD-ROM
    Our Solar System - ChestNut CD-ROM
    Ultimod (MODS)   - Sunset Productions
    MediaClips Business Backgrounds - Aris Entertainment

>>
>>(7)     What discs have you tried, but DO NOT WORK, in your CDROM drive?
>>      List title and author, and describe the problem briefly.
>>
>>      Groliers Encyclopedia - CDTV Publishing? , Locks up when you
>>        try to start it using the XETEC CDTV emulation software.
>>
>>      Women in Motion - CDTV Publishing? , Works 90% of the time with
>>        the XETEC CDTV emulation software but screens sometimes get
>>        garbled.
>>
>>(9)     Are you satisfied?  Any complaints?
>>
>>      The main purpose for purchasing the CD-ROM was to have access
>>      to the complete Fred Fish library and MS-DOS clip-art and font
>>      CD-ROMs. I am satisfied in this respect. I am discouraged that
>>      I cannot run some of the more advanced CDTV titles (Those which
>>      support CDXL).

    The quality and quantity of the Walnut Creek CD-ROMs is much
    better than the Chestnut CD-ROMs. I have been very satisfied
    with my CD-ROM over the past year.

>>
>>(10)    Improvements?
>>
>>      I would like to see XETEC or some other CDFileSystem developer
>>      provide better CDTV support, especially CDXL capability.
>>
>>
>>(11)    Do you know of any recent magazine article that reviews and compares
>>      lots of different CDROM drives (for any computer)?
>>
>>      Not that I am aware of.
>>
    AmigaWorld had a review a couple months ago, but you may have
    been the author. If not you then I think John Faust (sp?)

============================================================================

From: "Ryan K. Brooks" <[e-mail]>

(1)    Tell us about your Amiga:

        Model:    2000
        OS version: 3.0 (I'm a cert dev.)
        SCSI controller: GVP Gforce

(2)    Tell us about your CD-ROM drive:

        Brand: Toshiba
        Model number: 3201
        Access speed (ms): ~340
        Data transfer rate (KB/sec): ~150
        Internal or external: Internal

(3)    Why did you choose this particular drive?

    Cheap... only $240.

(4)    Is your drive installed horizontally or vertically?
    Can your drive be installed vertically, according to the
    documentation?

    I've used it in both configurations, the documentation says this is ok.

(5)    Does your Amiga boot properly if there is no disc in the CD-ROM
    drive?

    It doesn't boot correctly at all now that the CD-ROM is installed.  Disc or
    no.

(6)    What software driver(s) do you use?

    (a)    AsimCDFS by Asimware Innovations

    Are you happy with the software?  Any complaints?

    Seems okay.  Awaiting newest upgrade before I pass judgement.

(7)    What CD-ROM discs do you own?  List title and author.

    FishMarket - AsimWare
    AB20 - Walnut Creek

(8)    What discs have you tried, but DO NOT WORK CORRECTLY, in your CD-ROM
    drive?  List title and author, and describe the problem briefly.

    None, but the incompatibility with CDTV apps bothers me.

(9)    What is your favorite CD-ROM disc?

    FishMarket

(10)    Are you satisfied with your CD-ROM setup?  Any complaints?

    C= should add the FS to the OS. Need more apps!

(11)    Any other comments?

    I would recommend the cd-rom drive to others... Corporate Systems Center in CA.
    (no affiliation; I just think its a good price)

Thanks in advance!

    Thank you!

Ryan Brooks

============================================================================

From: [e-mail]

1.  Amiga 2500/030    OS: 2.0   SCSI Controller:  A2091

2.  CD-ROM Drive:  Xetec CDx-650 (Chinon CDS-431)
    Access speed:  350 ms
    Transfer rate:  ??
    External version

3.  Why this drive?:  Xetec gave the best (and really, the only legitimate)
    response to my queries about a CD-ROM drive.  One company strung
    me along for 3 months waiting for their drives to appear...my
    local dealer wondered why I even wanted a CD-ROM drive when I
    should be buying a Toaster and a 68040 card with 20M of RAM...just
    like his demo machine.  Xetec had a drive I could plug in
    to my system without knowing anything about hardware (a necessity
    for me).  They were friendly and prompt with the shipping.
[Sorry about the long flame...getting this drive was way more of an
effort than it should have been.]

4.  The drive is external and sits horizontally...haven't tried it
    any other way.

5.  The Amiga will NOT boot if not disc is in the drive.

6.  Driver software:  Xetec
    The software was very easy to install and seems to work well.

7.  Some of the CDRoms I own:
    * All 12 Voyager image CD-ROMs
    * Galileo CD-ROMs 2-6.
    * Seven Magellan CD-Roms
    * Selected Astronomical Catalogs From the ADC
    * Two "Fish & More" from Xetec
    * AB20 archive
    * GIFs Galore
    * Knowledge Media Graphics Library
    * Gridded NMC Data (Weather data 1946-1989)

8.  I tried out a CDTV disc (I am not sure which one) from a dealer.  Although the
Xetec software claims to run CDTV discs, I could not get the CDTV programs on the
CD-Rom to all start up correctly.  Since I'm not interested in CDTV discs, I did
not pursure the matter further.

9.  My favorites...the Voyager and Galileo discs...its neat to explore these
discs and view the images taken by the our spacecraft.

10.  My only complaint is that the SCSI system sometimes hangs if I have very
heavy disk activity, especially when I am accessing the CD-ROM.  I have not
yet resolved the problem.  Otherwise, I am very pleased with having this drive.

11. CD-ROMs for the Amiga seem to be following the same path as hard drives did
a few years ago...they are hard to get and over-priced (all my PC friends can
get CD-ROMs for under $200 with all driver software).  Since CD-ROMs really haven't
penetrated into the Amiga world, none of the hundreds of CD-ROMs with large
databases ---requiring specialized access software--- are going to be available
for the Amiga...only PCs and Macs.  The CD-ROM should be standard equipment
on new Amigas...and Commodore should work to get Amiga access software put
onto the many new titles coming out.  I don't care about games and lo-res
geography quizzes...I do care about the mountains of new data (such as
world-wide weather archives...dictionaries...phone/zip code directories...
and many others) that my friends can buy for their machines but are
not usable from the Amiga.

Steve Masters   [e-mail]
ENSCO, Inc.
Melbourne, FL  32940
[phone] (day)

============================================================================

From: [e-mail] (William L. Gorder)

> (1)    Tell us about your Amiga:

Model:                 A3000/25
OS version:             KS 37.175, WB 38.25 (KS from disk)
SCSI controller:         Internal A3000

>
> (2)    Tell us about your CD-ROM drive:

Brand:                 NEC
Model number:            CDR-80
Access speed (ms):         500 ms
Data transfer rate (KB/sec):    150 (avg), 500 (max)
Internal or external:        External

>
> (3)    Why did you choose this particular drive?

It was inexpensive (and SCSI).

> (4)    Is your drive installed horizontally or vertically?
>     Can your drive be installed vertically, according to the
>     documentation?

The drive is mounted horizontally.  The manual shows it being mounted both
horizontally and vertically.

>
> (5)    Does your Amiga boot properly if there is no disc in the CD-ROM
>     drive?

Not sure, I normally have a CD-Rom in the drive.  However, a cold boot up
with the CDR-80 *turned on* results in a grey screen with a yellow message
which reads "Unable to get memory".  I have 14Mb!

>
> (6)    What software driver(s) do you use?

     (b)    CD-ROM-FS by Canadian Prototype Replicas.
        CDROM-FS 0.702 (Yep, I know it's an old version, I just
        haven't upgraded yet.)

>     Are you happy with the software?  Any complaints?

Well, I have had some problems, but since it's an old version it's hard to
complain.  I plan to upgrade soon.  (Of course I've planned to upgrade to
Amiga UUCP 1.16D since about September :-)

>
> (7)    What CD-ROM discs do you own?  List title and author.

GIFs Galore            Walnut Creek
Desktop Library            Walnut Creek
Source Code CD-Rom          Walnut Creek
AB20 Amiga CD-Rom        Walnut Creek
Fred Fish Collection        HyperMedia Concepts
Audio 1    Resource Library     Knowledge Media
Microsoft Bookshelf        Microsoft (MS-DOS specific, do not use, came
                with the drive)

>
> (8)    What discs have you tried, but DO NOT WORK CORRECTLY, in your CD-ROM
>     drive?  List title and author, and describe the problem briefly.

None.

>
> (9)    What is your favorite CD-ROM disc?

Desktop Library            Walnut Creek

>
> (10)    Are you satisfied with your CD-ROM setup?  Any complaints?

Yes.

Waiting for the disk to spin-up when it is accessed is a bit of a pain
sometimes.  And I wish I could find a source for NEC CDR-80 caddies. :-(

>
> (11)    Any other comments?

CD-Rom is a great addition to your system!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  William Gorder        | "The two most common elements in the universe are
[e-mail] |  hydrogen and stupidity"
[e-mail]|   --- Harlan Ellison

============================================================================

From: Dave Beckett <[e-mail]>

(1)    Tell us about your Amiga:

        Model: 1500 (a variant of the 2000)
        OS version: 2.04
        SCSI controller: GVP MkII

(2)    Tell us about your CD-ROM drive:

        Brand: NEC
        Model number: CDR 74
        Access speed (ms): 280ms (claimed)
        Data transfer rate (KB/sec):
            300 (claimed - peak 1.5M claimed)
            270-275 (measured with sysinfo 3.11)
        Internal or external: External

    Also: Eject button, power button, headphone socket and volume
    on FRONT (an advantage!), audio out on back, international power
    supply plus is supplied with SCSI D25-D50 cable and terminating
    resistor pack (D50).

(3)    Why did you choose this particular drive?

    It was one of only two `professional' choices (SCSI, external,
    robust, brand name) drives available at the time - Toshiba 3301
    or NEC 74.

    The NEC had a small price advantage and had the improved access
    speed due to the MultiSpin dual speed technology which the
    Toshiba didn't.  The Toshiba's advantages are (and still are)
    SCSI-II and MultiSession (Photo CD) support plus 512K block size
    reading both of which the CDR74 does not have (but this may change
    with the new model).  If I was buying again, I might consider the
    Toshiba 3401 instead.

(4)    Is your drive installed horizontally or vertically?
    Can your drive be installed vertically, according to the
    documentation?

    It's horizontal but can be either and comes with stands to
    install vertically.

(5)    Does your Amiga boot properly if there is no disc in the CD-ROM
    drive?

    Yes.

(6)    What software driver(s) do you use?

    (a)    AsimCDFS by Asimware Innovations
    (b)    CD-ROM-FS by Canadian Prototype Replicas.
    (c)    Xetec
    (d)    Other (give name, vendor, and a brief description of
        capabilities)

    (a) - AsimCDFS v1.0b

    Are you happy with the software?  Any complaints?

    I'm happy but had slight problems setting up - it requires
    gvpscsi.library v4.4 or    later and I had v3.x so had to update.
    Just call any GVP dealer.  I've got v4.5 now and it works fine.

    Complaints?  Well, sort of suggestions.  It would be nice
    to have the option to display files in lower case (soothing to
    the eyes) plus show/hide version numbers and have better support
    for unnamed volumes.  Currently if you CD to an unnamed disk,
    the returned path does not work properly.  Although the MAC
    support works fine, it's messy switching Data/Resource forks.
    Support for High Sierra/Rockridge would be great.  Last but
    not least, CDTV support so I can try out the software if it
    finally appears and is worth it.

(7)    What CD-ROM discs do you own?  List title and author.

    By Walnut Creek CDROM:

        X11R5/GNU CDROM
        Sources (March 1992) CDROM
        AB20 Amiga CDROM
        GIFS Galore CDROM

    By AsimWare (comes with driver software):
        FishMarket

    Tried but not owned:
        Apple 'QuickClips' - QuickTime demo disc
        One of the Mac 'CDROM of the Month' discs.


(8)    What discs have you tried, but DO NOT WORK CORRECTLY, in your CD-ROM
    drive?  List title and author, and describe the problem briefly.

    None.

(9)    What is your favorite CD-ROM disc?

    WC Sources.

(10)    Are you satisfied with your CD-ROM setup?  Any complaints?

    Yes - it works great.

(11)    Any other comments?

    I've got 150 buffers on the CDROM (more than my hard drives),
    and the drive itself has 64K of cache too plus being semi-fast
    so bear in mind that there is a speed/memory trade-off.

    If I can get CDTV support, I'd like a decent Multimedia(ish)
    Encyclopedia/dictionary/... plus maybe a few games that really
    use the CDROM's storage/audio facilities..

============================================================================

From: [e-mail] (Daniel Barrett)

(1)    Tell us about your Amiga:

        Model: A3000T
        OS version: 2.1
        SCSI controller: internal

(2)    Tell us about your CD-ROM drive:

        Brand: Toshiba
        Model number: XM-3301B
        Access speed (ms):
        Data transfer rate (KB/sec):
        Internal or external:

(3)    Why did you choose this particular drive?

        Fast (at the time), and no reported problems with any
        of the CDROM filesystems.

(4)    Is your drive installed horizontally or vertically?
    Can your drive be installed vertically, according to the
    documentation?

        vertically, yes.

(5)    Does your Amiga boot properly if there is no disc in the CD-ROM
    drive?

        no.

(6)    What software driver(s) do you use?

    (a)    AsimCDFS by Asimware Innovations

    Are you happy with the software?  Any complaints?

        Early versions were buggy, and I worked with the author to
        find the bugs.  Now it's fine.  I'm told it's the slowest
        of the 3 filesystems.  The author promises great things in
        the future though.

(7)    What CD-ROM discs do you own?  List title and author.

        AB20, Walnut Creek
        Fred Fish Collection 1.5 (1-700) & 1.6 (1-800), Hypermedia
        USENET Source Code, Walnut Creek
        FishMarket, Asimware

(8)    What discs have you tried, but DO NOT WORK CORRECTLY, in your CD-ROM
    drive?  List title and author, and describe the problem briefly.

        FF Collection 1.5 had bug.

(9)    What is your favorite CD-ROM disc?

        Fred Fish Collection

(10)    Are you satisfied with your CD-ROM setup?  Any complaints?

        Satisfied.

(11)    Any other comments?

============================================================================

From: [e-mail] (Richard Rogers)

(1)    Tell us about your Amiga:

        Model: 4000
        OS version: 3.0
        SCSI controller: 2091

(2)    Tell us about your CD-ROM drive:

        Brand: chinon
        Model number:cds-435
        Access speed (ms): 350 ms
        Data transfer rate (KB/sec): 150 K/s
        Internal or external: internal

(3)    Why did you choose this particular drive?

Low cost and known compatibility with 2091 and Xetec file system

(4)    Is your drive installed horizontally or vertically? horizontally
    Can your drive be installed vertically, according to the
    documentation? no

(5)    Does your Amiga boot properly if there is no disc in the CD-ROM
    drive?

It boots properly, but slowly.  This is due to the 2091, and happens with
other removable media when used with this controller.  At boot time, the 2091
sees a SCSI device (the removable media drive, cd rom in this case), and
asks it if it's alive.  When there is no disk in the drive, the drive won't
respond to the controller's inquiry.  After a few tries, the 2091 gives up
and allows the boot to continue.  When there is a disk in the drive, the
drive answers, and the computer boots at normal speed.  I don't find this
annoying, as I usually leave my Amiga on.  If I really want to boot fast, I
just stick a disk in.  Other controllers handle removable media differently,
some are faster for the no disk case, but I believe C='s method is the most
reliable.


(6)    What software driver(s) do you use?
    (c)    Xetec

    Are you happy with the software?  Yes Any complaints? Nope, works
flawlessly so far.  I haven't tried CDTV emulation or reading Mac disks, but
Amiga and IBM cds I've tried so far have worked well.

(7)    What CD-ROM discs do you own?  List title and author.

Fish & More (came with Xetec software)
Walnut Creek's AB20 archive
SelectWare system and Nautilus Intro (came with Chinon drive)

(8)    What discs have you tried, but DO NOT WORK CORRECTLY, in your CD-ROM
    drive?  List title and author, and describe the problem briefly.
none

(9)    What is your favorite CD-ROM disc?
AB20

(10)    Are you satisfied with your CD-ROM setup?  Any complaints?
(11)    Any other comments?

I'm happy with the drive and software set-up.

The 2091 doesn't work in the Amiga 4000.  I'd like a ZorroIII SCSI controller,
but I don't need SCSI2.  The projected prices of the Z3 SCSI2 controllers are
about $100 higher than the current Z2 SCSI controllers.  I don't know if this
is because of Zorro3 or SCSI 2.  If a Zorro 3 SCSI 1 card could be produced
at a price close to the current Zorro 2 SCSI 1 controllers, there should be
a good market for it.


Thanks in advance!

you're welcome

============================================================================

From: [e-mail] ( Stephen Pietrowicz)

> (1)    Tell us about your Amiga:

         Model: Amiga 2000
         OS version: 2.04
         SCSI controller: GVP (Series I with FAAASTROMs installed)

> (2)    Tell us about your CD-ROM drive:

         Brand: Toshiba
         Model number: 3401
         Access speed (ms): 200ms
         Data transfer rate (KB/sec): 330KB
         Internal or external: External

> (3)    Why did you choose this particular drive?

    It's the fastest thing out there right now, and supports just about
    every standard for CD-ROMs that I've even heard of.

> (4)    Is your drive installed horizontally or vertically?
>     Can your drive be installed vertically, according to the
>     documentation?

    Horizontally

> (5)    Does your Amiga boot properly if there is no disc in the CD-ROM
>     drive?

    Yes

> (6)    What software driver(s) do you use?
>
>     (a)    AsimCDFS by Asimware Innovations
>     (b)    CD-ROM-FS by Canadian Prototype Replicas.
>     (c)    Xetec
>     (d)    Other (give name, vendor, and a brief description of
>         capabilities)

    Xetec

>     Are you happy with the software?  Any complaints?

    Yup.  I have no complaints.  In fact, I'm stunned what you get
    for $50 from Xetec: 2 discs, a bunch of programs, AREXX scripts,
    and even code to roll your own programs to control the disc.  Pretty
    nice.

> (7)    What CD-ROM discs do you own?  List title and author.

    Fred Fish & More (Vols. I & II) - Xetec
    AB20 Archive                    - Walnut Creek
    Siggraph 1992 CD ROM            - Cast of hundreds (ok, tens... maybe)

> (8)    What discs have you tried, but DO NOT WORK CORRECTLY, in your CD-ROM
>     drive?  List title and author, and describe the problem briefly.

    All of these work.  There is no Amiga driver software for the Siggraph
    disc, but I can still get at the data.

> (9)    What is your favorite CD-ROM disc?

    Right now, the Fred Fish & More discs.  Walnut Creek is coming out
    with the amiga.physik.unizh.ch site on disc in the next few weeks
    (or so), and I suspect that will be me new favorite.

> (10)    Are you satisfied with your CD-ROM setup?  Any complaints?

    Yes, I'm quite satisfied.  No complaints.

> (11)    Any other comments?

    The external Toshiba has stereo jacks in the back (and a headphone
    jack in the front), which makes it easy to hook up to the stereo
    (or headphones).  This is one FAST drive.  Much faster than other
    CD ROM drives I've used.

============================================================================

From: [e-mail]

: (1)    Tell us about your Amiga:

:         Model:  A2500
:         OS version: WB 2.1, KS 2.04
:         SCSI controller: A2091

: (2)    Tell us about your CD-ROM drive:

:         Brand: Panasonic (AKA Matsushita)
:         Model number: CD501-B ROM 1.0c
:         Access speed (ms): -
:         Data transfer rate (KB/sec): -
:         Internal or external: Internal

: (3)    Why did you choose this particular drive?

It was cheap, SCSI, and available here in New Zealand. It was intended for a
PC as an internal kit and came with a cheap PC SCSI card.

: (4)    Is your drive installed horizontally or vertically?
:     Can your drive be installed vertically, according to the
:     documentation?

Is installed horizontally. Can be either, but I haven't tried.

: (5)    Does your Amiga boot properly if there is no disc in the CD-ROM
:     drive?

Yes, but only after ~3 minutes. Hangs completely if there is an audio CD in
the drive at boot. Apparently, if I had a HD at a lower unit number, I'd be
OK - I can't verify this.

: (6)    What software driver(s) do you use?

>     (a)    AsimCDFS by Asimware Innovations

:     Are you happy with the software?  Any complaints?

It does have problems. Occassionly it doesn't scan directories properly.
e.g. WShell's file completion doesn't work in some directories on some
disks. Also on the FF disk, Fish Express refuses to start. [This does work
with Babels CDROMFS on the same drive & disk.]

The drive does correctly register diskchanges on my machine. According to
the Asim manual there is a problem with the Panasonic drive with the 1.0b
ROM.

The audio player is very basic, but does function OK.

I have never tried the AsimFork for MAC disks.

: (7)    What CD-ROM discs do you own?  List title and author.

Fred Fish 1.6 (1-800) - Hypermedia
CATS developer CD - CATS
FishMarket (comes bundled with AsimCDFS)
Source Code CDROM - Walnut Creek
AB20 - Walnut Creek

: (8)    What discs have you tried, but DO NOT WORK CORRECTLY, in your CD-ROM
:     drive?  List title and author, and describe the problem briefly.

See above with FF and Wshell (all disks, random directories). Also Asim
couldn't read the files which used accents in their names. (This appears on
the CATS CD).

: (9)    What is your favorite CD-ROM disc?

Source Code CDROM.

: (10)    Are you satisfied with your CD-ROM setup?  Any complaints?

Yes. No.

: (11)    Any other comments?

I can get around the hanging with the audio CD in the drive by simply
pressing the eject button when it appears to hang. The machine then boots
quickly.

 - Mark Tomlinson

============================================================================

From: Ari Yrj\vl\d <[e-mail]>

> (1)    Tell us about your Amiga:
>
         Model: Amiga 2000
         OS version: 2.04
         SCSI controller: GVP G-Force 030
>
> (2)    Tell us about your CD-ROM drive:
>
         Brand: Apple
         Model number: CD-150
         Access speed (ms): 380
         Data transfer rate (KB/sec): 150
         Internal or external: external
>
> (3)    Why did you choose this particular drive?

With edu discount here in Finland (C= has never offered any
discounts here, BTW) it was quite cheap: 1650,- FIM which
translates to about $275 (that includes 22% VAT). Cables and
the necessary external SCSI terminator aren't included though.
Also, as it's internally a Sony (model CDU-8002) I was quite
sure it would work with some CD-ROM filesystem software available
for Amiga.

> (4)    Is your drive installed horizontally or vertically?
>     Can your drive be installed vertically, according to the
>     documentation?

Well, it is external drive...don't know if it could be used
sideaways.

> (5)    Does your Amiga boot properly if there is no disc in the CD-ROM
>     drive?

First time after I switch power on my Amiga it won't boot
but everything works fine after TFS. This happens in any case,
was there a CD inside or not. I also have to use GVPScsiCtrl
command to turn off disconnect/reconnect for the CD-ROM drive
on startup before mounting it.

> (6)    What software driver(s) do you use?

     (c)    Xetec


>     Are you happy with the software?  Any complaints?

It has a nice install program (not C='s install but their
own) with online help, but it could tell more about what
it does when you tell it to install the software. It has
some simple software protection too, which was a bit of
nuisance when I was trying with a copy from a friend :)
to find out if it works at all with my drive and if I
should order it. Getting my own copy was not so easy,
as it seems that only way to get Xetec's software is
to order it straight from them. It costs $50 + shipping
and comes with software disk, a shrink-wrapped manual
and 2 Fish&More CDs (upto #470 and other stuff like Eric
Schwartz anims) in jewel boxes.
Lately I've been noticing some problems with audio CDs
and Workbench. Xetec's software puts up an icon on WB
when audio disc is inserted and it starts a player program
when clicked. The problem is that sometimes after ejecting
the audio CD it's icon will still hang around on WB. This
migh be (just my guess) due to some differences with my
drive and Sony CDU-8001 audio command set which I'm using
as Xetec software doesn't have direct support for Apple
drives.

> (7)    What CD-ROM discs do you own?  List title and author.

I have only 3 CD-ROM discs: 'AppleCD Sampler' which came
with the drive and those 2 Fish&More CDs which were bundled
with Xetec software.

> (8)    What discs have you tried, but DO NOT WORK CORRECTLY, in your CD-ROM
>     drive?  List title and author, and describe the problem briefly.

All 3 discs I own have worked perfectly, although some scripts
to start up animations on Fish CDs don't work right; trying to
do stupid assigns like WalkerII script, or some just won't start.


> (9)    What is your favorite CD-ROM disc?

Fish&More #2, as it has some nice animations :-)

> (10)    Are you satisfied with your CD-ROM setup?  Any complaints?

I'm satisfied, although PhotoCD support and CD-DA read ability
would be nice, but that costs too...

> (11)    Any other comments?

> Thanks in advance!

Thanks for you keeping up the good work with c.s.a.reviews!

============================================================================

From: Jay Rymal <[e-mail]>

-> (1)Tell us about your Amiga:
->
-> Model: Amiga3000T and Amiga 4000/030 (among others at work 8^)
-> OS version: 2.1 and 3.0
-> SCSI controller: a3000 and Waiting for a4091
->
-> (2)Tell us about your CD-ROM drive:
->
-> Brand: Apple (SONY)
-> Model number: CD-300i (Sony 561)
-> Access speed (ms): ~280
-> Data transfer rate (KB/sec): 300
-> Internal or external: tried both, use Internal
->
-> (3)Why did you choose this particular drive?
->

        Cheap, yet the fastest, most features..good name...


-> (4)Is your drive installed horizontally or vertically?

        Horizontally.

-> Can your drive be installed vertically, according to the
-> documentation?

        Yes (?)

->
-> (5)Does your Amiga boot properly if there is no disc in the CD-ROM
-> drive?

        Nope!

->
-> (6)What software driver(s) do you use?
->
         AsimCDFS by Asimware Innovations !!!

->
-> Are you happy with the software?  Any complaints?

        YUP!                            NOPE!
->
-> (7)What CD-ROM discs do you own?  List title and author.
->

two fred fish disks, (Hypermedia and Asim's)
photoCD's
Lemmings CDTV
Working on getting more...8^)

-> (8)What discs have you tried, but DO NOT WORK CORRECTLY, in your
-> CD-ROM drive?  List title and author, and describe the problem
-> briefly.

        Several CDTV titles wont work, I tried them at work, but I don't
remember the names...sorry.

-> (9)What is your favorite CD-ROM disc?
->
        FredFish from Hypermedia

-> (10)Are you satisfied with your CD-ROM setup?  Any complaints?
->
                Yup...                                  Nope

-> (11)Any other comments?

        I'm really happy to finally get PhotoCD on the system with the
aid of a program called OpalPCD...  using the Opal.library from Centaur,
any amiga can extract and convert PhotoCD images to the Amiga's IFF!

They look great...

What I want to get next is that MOD cd rom...  I never bothered keeping
them around on the HD since they're so big...but a CD rom...well GREAT!

I'd like to promote this technology on the Amiga...  I think many people
think that CDTV is the only way Amiga computers can get access to CD's

NOT...8^)

What I want to get is disks full of FONTS.  I tried the Type-ON-Call
disk, MAC version, from ADOBE, but alas they have an encrypted format on
the disk, that requires their software to extract the fonts.

 -> Thanks in advance!

               You welcome, and thanks for all the great work you're
doing for the Amiga community!
                                [e-mail]
                                University of Toronto Computer Shop
--
Canada Remote Systems - Toronto, Ontario
416-629-7000/629-7044

============================================================================

From: Mike Stark <[e-mail]>

(1)    Tell us about your Amiga:

        Model: Amiga 3000
        OS version: 2.1
        SCSI controller: Amiga 3000

(2)    Tell us about your CD-ROM drive:

        Brand: Toshiba
        Model number: XM-3201B
        Access speed (ms): 350
        Data transfer rate (KB/sec): 1500 (Max)
        Internal or external: Internal in an external box.

(3)    Why did you choose this particular drive?

    It was given to me by those wonderful people at Walnut Creek CDROM.
    They chose it 'cause it was cheap.  It is refurbished.

(4)    Is your drive installed horizontally or vertically? Horizontally
    Can your drive be installed vertically, according to the
    documentation? yes

(5)    Does your Amiga boot properly if there is no disc in the CD-ROM
    drive? Of course not.  (It boots OK if I have the drive off.)

(6)    What software driver(s) do you use?

    (a)    AsimCDFS by Asimware Innovations

    Are you happy with the software? (yes) Any complaints?

    FComp doesn't seem to work all the time with it though it seems
    to work some of the time.  (FComp is a file name completer
    distributed with WSHell.)

(7)    What CD-ROM discs do you own?  List title and author.

    All of the WC CDROMS including their upcoming aminet CD.

(8)    What discs have you tried, but DO NOT WORK CORRECTLY, in your CD-ROM
    drive?  List title and author, and describe the problem briefly.

    none.

(9)    What is your favorite CD-ROM disc?

    Don't have a favorite.

(10)    Are you satisfied with your CD-ROM setup? (yes) Any complaints?

    Not enough titles for Amiga.

(11)    Any other comments?

============================================================================

From: Jacek Artymiak <[e-mail]>

(1) Tell us about your Amiga:

  Model: Amiga 3000T
  OS version: 2.1
  SCSI controller: on-board

(2) Tell us about your CD-ROM drive:

  Brand: Toshiba
  Model number: 3401
  Access speed (ms): ??
  Data transfer rate (KB/sec): ??
  Internal or external: internal

(3) Why did you choose this particular drive?

                It was recommended to me by my trusted dealer.

(4) Is your drive installed horizontally or vertically?

  Vertically

 Can your drive be installed vertically, according to the
 documentation?

  Yes, no problems. It has to be installed in the left
  vertical slot because of the bracket in the right slot.

(5) Does your Amiga boot properly if there is no disc in the CD-ROM
 drive?

  Yes, without problems.

(6) What software driver(s) do you use?

 (c) Xetec

 Are you happy with the software?  Any complaints?

  Totally happy, no complaints.

(7) What CD-ROM discs do you own?  List title and author.

  Fish & More Volume I  - Xetec
  Fish & More Volume II - Xetec
  Demo CD - Almathera Systems Ltd
  GIFs Galore CDROM - Walnut Creek
  Heroic Age of Spaceflight, NASA... The 25h Year - Troika Multimedia, Inc.

(8) What discs have you tried, but DO NOT WORK CORRECTLY, in your CD-ROM
 drive?  List title and author, and describe the problem briefly.

  Heroic Age of Spaceflight, NASA... The 25h Year - Troika Multimedia, Inc.

  The program hangs up in the middle of playing the movie. I guess its due
  to the fact that I'm using Mercury 040 accelerator. Switching back to 030
  didn't help though.

(9) What is your favorite CD-ROM disc?

  GIFs Galore CDROM - Walnut Creek

(10) Are you satisfied with your CD-ROM setup?  Any complaints?

  Yes, no problems so far.

(11) Any other comments?

  Can't wait for a good PhotoCD reader...


Regards,
Jacek

============================================================================

From: yngmnds![e-mail]

(1)    Tell us about your Amiga:

        Model:    Amiga 500, Amiga 3000UX
        OS version: 1.3,2.04, 2.1
        SCSI controller: IVS GrandSlam 500, CBM

(2)    Tell us about your CD-ROM drive:

        Brand: Toshiba 3401B
        Model number: 3401B
        Access speed (ms): 200ms
        Data transfer rate (KB/sec):     330
        Internal or external: external

(3)    Why did you choose this particular drive?  Good driver support

(4)    Is your drive installed horizontally or vertically?
                horizontally
    Can your drive be installed vertically, according to the
    documentation?        YES

(5)    Does your Amiga boot properly if there is no disc in the CD-ROM
    drive?
        YES

(6)    What software driver(s) do you use?

    (a)    AsimCDFS by Asimware Innovations
    (b)    CD-ROM-FS by Canadian Prototype Replicas.
    (c)    Xetec
    (d)    Other (give name, vendor, and a brief description of
        capabilities)


    BOTH a and b


    Are you happy with the software?  Any complaints?

    I am not happy with CDROM-FS by Canadian Prototype
    If I try to back up a CD onto 8mm Exabyte tape, the
    device driver crashes after about 4-5 hours of use.
    This also happens if I use it for 4-5 hours without
    using the backup program. (using both Amiback or TAR)

(7)    What CD-ROM discs do you own?  List title and author.
        Lemmings
        CDTV welcome DISK.
        X11R5 and GNU by Young Minds, Inc.
        X11R4 and GNU by Young Minds, Inc.
        Young Minds, Demo.
        Siggraph 92 Proceedings
        Super Computing 92 proceedings
        Fuzzy Logic 93 proceedings
        Neural Networks conf proceedings
        I have used others too..(belong to the company I work for)

(8)    What discs have you tried, but DO NOT WORK CORRECTLY, in your CD-ROM
    drive?  List title and author, and describe the problem briefly.

    Some self-made CD's don't work correctly cause they were made
    non ISO-9660.    (but all the ones I own work fine)

(9)    What is your favorite CD-ROM disc?

        X11R5 and GNU source code. (I am a X-Programmer).

(10)    Are you satisfied with your CD-ROM setup?  Any complaints?

        I wish more amiga software was published on CD-ROM
        specifically, good indexing/retrieval software.

(11)    Any other comments?

        I LOVE the double speed Toshiba 3401B !!!


        ( I have also used the Toshiba 3201 without any problems.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Youngberg      INTERNET: [e-mail]
Software Engineer,  Young Minds, Inc. CD-ROM Solutions for UNIX!
Ph [phone] FAX [phone]

============================================================================

From: [e-mail]

(1)    Tell us about your Amiga:

        Model:              Amiga 2500/30 (C-A A2630 Board)
                                    DKB 2632 32-bit memory expansion board
                                    with 12 megs installed (total mem=19 megs)
        OS version:         WB 2.1
        SCSI controller:    Both a 2091 & a CMI Multiport Board
                                    w/ SCSI option.  The Matshita CD rom drive
                                    requires that Re-Selection be turned off
                                    or else frequently locks the SCSI bus. The
                                    A2091 makes turning off reselection
                                    difficult w/o rewriting the RDB which
                                    you can't do with a CD Rom.  Bottom line
                                    is I have the CD ROM on the CMI Multiport
                                    SCSI port (no reselection, non DMA) as
                                    the only SCSI device and it's working fine.



(2)    Tell us about your CD-ROM drive:

        Brand:                        Panasonic/Matshita CD Rom
        Model number:                 CR-501-T
        Access speed (ms):            .5 sec (from spec)
        Data transfer rate (KB/sec):  150k/sec (from spec)
        Internal or external:         External



(3)    Why did you choose this particular drive?

        It was cheap!!! - Pickup it up for $150 (w/ external box) at
        local swap meet.



(4)    Is your drive installed horizontally or vertically?
    Can your drive be installed vertically, according to the
    documentation?

        Horizontally - Not sure if it can go the other way.  This drive
        seems to be sold as an external unit only (case has feet on
        the bottom only).



(5)    Does your Amiga boot properly if there is no disc in the CD-ROM
    drive?

        Yes - The CMI SCSI make no attempt to auto-mount the drive
        so it doesn't matter if there's a disk there or not.



(6)    What software driver(s) do you use?


    (a)    AsimCDFS by Asimware Innovations
    (c)    Xetec

        I have both AsimCDFS and Xetec - purchased the Xetec first but found
        out later that AsimCDFS supported Audio on this drive so I purchased
        that one too.


    Are you happy with the software?  Any complaints?

    Both packages seemed to work about the same.  I use the AsimCDFS for
    the Audio capability.  I'm a little disappointed that neither
    supports CD-XL but I'm not sure if that's even possible.



(7)    What CD-ROM discs do you own?  List title and author.

Disk Title                Author            Comments
~~~~~~~~~~                ~~~~~~            ~~~~~~~~
Amrican Hrtge Illust Ency Dict*        Xiphas
Fish N More 1 & 2            Xetec            The pics, animations, and sounds are neat & the fis
h stuff is sorted by type
FishMarket                Asimware        Works fine though most of fish collection is outdated
GIFs Galore                Walnut Creek CDROM    Nice Disk - 6000 GIFs sorted by TYPE
Grolier Electronc Encyclopedia*        CDTV Publishing
Heroic Age of Spaceflight*        Troika Multimedia Inc    Major portion of disk is a CD
XL movie - doesn't work
Time Table of Hist-Scince & Innovtn*    Xiphias
World Vista*                Applied Optical Media Corp


*Had to use SETCPU to boot 1.3 OS to get CDTV software to run



(8)    What discs have you tried, but DO NOT WORK CORRECTLY, in your CD-ROM
    drive?  List title and author, and describe the problem briefly.

        The following disks seem to require OS 1.3 to boot:

            Amrican Hrtge Illust Ency Dict
        Grolier Electronc Encyclopedia
        Heroic Age of Spaceflight
        Time Table of Hist-Scince & Innovtn
        World Vista


    Heroic Age of Spaceflight - Can't view CDXL movie

    World Vista - Sometimes runs out of chip memory when viewing city map
                      (this is mentioned in the Xetec documentation)



(9)    What is your favorite CD-ROM disc?

        Grolier Electronic Encyclopedia



(10)    Are you satisfied with your CD-ROM setup?  Any complaints?

        Yea, I'm satisfied - But I wasn't expecting much.
        I'd be alot happier if I could run CDTV stuff without
        going through a special boot process (OS 1.3)





P.S.  Any chance you could E-Mail me a copy of the survey results?


Thanks

[e-mail]

============================================================================

From: Tom Brunetti <[e-mail]>

> (1)     Tell us about your Amiga:
>
>                Model:
>                OS version:
>                SCSI controller:
        A2000/2630/25Mhz
        2.05
        2091


>
> (2)     Tell us about your CD-ROM drive:
>
>                Brand:
>                Model number:
>                Access speed (ms):
>                Data transfer rate (KB/sec):
>                Internal or external:
>
        NEC
        CDR-25
        800ms
        150kb??
        External

> (3)     Why did you choose this particular drive?
>
        Inexpensive,SCSI compatible, External, Portable

> (4)     Is your drive installed horizontally or vertically?
>        Can your drive be installed vertically, according to the
>        documentation?
>
        External, Horizontal, Cannot be installed vertically.
> (5)     Does your Amiga boot properly if there is no disc in the CD-ROM
>        drive?
>
        Must have a disk in the drive to boot properly.

> (6)     What software driver(s) do you use?
>
>        (a)     AsimCDFS by Asimware Innovations
>        (b)     CD-ROM-FS by Canadian Prototype Replicas.
>        (c)     Xetec
>        (d)     Other (give name, vendor, and a brief description of
>                capabilities)
>
        Xetec CDX

>        Are you happy with the software?  Any complaints?
>
        Very happy, no complaints. Installation was a breeze.  Documentation
very clear and concise.  Active BBS support which I appreciate.  Asim software
locked up the scsi bus during large xfers to hd which Xetec has no problem with.

> (7)     What CD-ROM discs do you own?  List title and author.
>
3 discs, Fish + More Vols I&II (Xetec), Dinosaurs for Hire[CDTV](Wright Works
III).  Bought cdtv title for testing purposes which by the way works
flawlessly,although using Xetecs generic startups will lose multitasking
ability.

> (8)     What discs have you tried, but DO NOT WORK CORRECTLY, in your CD-
> ROM
>        drive?  List title and author, and describe the problem briefly.
>
        Haven't encountered problems yet.  CD-Rom collection limited to titles
above.

> (9)     What is your favorite CD-ROM disc?
>
        My limited exposure to available titles discounts my opinion here.

> (10)    Are you satisfied with your CD-ROM setup?  Any complaints?
>

        Pretty much satisfied.  I only swap data from the drive so speed hasn't
been a problem as of yet.  Would like to get a cdtv game to see how the drive
keeps up.

> (11)    Any other comments?
>
        Again the software, ordered the package over the phone.  Received it in
two days.  Interface has interactive help on every input necessary.  Very
professionally done in my opinion.

> Thanks in advance!
>
>                                                        Dan
>


My pleasure Dan.

TB

 * Q-Blue v0.7 [NR] *

============================================================================

            END OF SURVEY RESPONSES

                                                        Dan

 //////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
| Dan Barrett -- Dept of Computer Science, Lederle Graduate Research Center |
| University of Massachusetts, Amherst, MA  01003  --  [e-mail] |
 \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/////////////////////////////////////