Play and Learn 2/19941.ZIP/19941/PUBE/CUD302.TXT

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  ****************************************************************************
                  >C O M P U T E R   U N D E R G R O U N D<
                                >D I G E S T<
              ***  Volume 3, Issue #3.02 (Janury 16, 1991)   **
      ** SPECIAL ISSUE: SECRET SERVICE STING BOARD AND INFORMANT **
  ****************************************************************************

MODERATORS:   Jim Thomas (this issues)
              (Gordon Meyer on temporary re-location hiatus)

USENET readers can currently receive CuD as alt.society.cu-digest.
Anonymous ftp sites: (1) ftp.cs.widener.edu (2) [e-mail]
E-mail server: [e-mail].

COMPUTER UNDERGROUND DIGEST is an open forum dedicated to sharing
information among computerists and to the presentation and debate of
diverse views.  CuD material may be reprinted as long as the source is
cited.  Some authors, however, do copyright their material, and those
authors should be contacted for reprint permission.
It is assumed that non-personal mail to the moderators may be reprinted
unless otherwise specified. Readers are encouraged to submit reasoned
articles relating to the Computer Underground.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
DISCLAIMER: The views represented herein do not necessarily represent the
            views of the moderators. Contributors assume all responsibility
            for assuring that articles submitted do not violate copyright
            protections.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

In Liam O'Flaherty's 1925 novel "The Informer," Gypo Nolan betrays a friend
to the police for 20 pounds. Few of the characters are particularly noble
or sympathetic, but O'Flaherty manages to show the complexity of human
frailty, moral quandry, brutality and compassion, as Gypo ultimately dies a
pathetic death seeking redemption for his betrayal.

Only with sadness do we present this first of several special issues on
federally created and rewarded betrayal, deceit, and informants in the CU.
We draw here from several public documents, including the seizure warrant
served on RIPCO BBS. We also use phone logs that we and others have
collected, copies of telephone bills and logs that corroborate certain
numbers, eye witness accounts, interviews, and other information that
establishes beyond doubt that the U.S. Secret Service, in cooperation with
the Arizona State's Attorney's Office, used a PAID INFORMANT to establish a
sting board and to capture message logs from a variety of BBSs and turn
them over to state and federal agents.

The primary hard evidence for establishing both the existence and the
identity of the informant was obtained by Glen Roberts, the publisher of
FULL DISCLOSURE, an interesting hard-copy magazine, and Bill Vajk, a
freelance writer and researcher who is active on the nets.
The full text should be on the CuD archive/ftp sites in a few
weeks.

As those who have been following the Dr. RIPCO saga recall, the warrant
authorizing the search and seizure of his equipment was sealed, and the
best efforts of attorneys and others failed to obtain a copy by requesting
it through official channels.  Delays, denials, confusion, and apparent
misinformation seemed to stymie all formal requests. So, Bill and Glen took
the case number (90-M-187), trucked on down to the federal court on S.
Dearborn in Chicago, and went to work. They requested several case files
adjacent to the desired one (90-M-186, 90-M-188, etc) on the assumption
that the precise one they sought was likely to be among them. It was. So,
they plunked their coins into the zerox machine, duplicated the documents,
and shared them with the world.

For those who have not yet seen it, FULL DISCLOSURE is a newspaper that
covers topics that are not regularly covered in detail in the general
media. A significant focus is on privacy, electronic surveillance, and
related topics.  Articles include  coverage of the National Technical
Investigators Association annual conference, the latest in video
surveillance equipment, the JBR tape recorder and much more.

A sample issue is available free, or subscriptions are $18 for 12 issues.
FULL DISCLOSURE, Box 903-C, Libertyville, Illinois 60048.

In coming issues, FULL DISCLOSURE will include stories on the government's
paranoia in the RIPCO case, as reflect in the seizure warrant (available
ftp in about 7-10 days).  CuD will focus primarily on the ethical,
ideological, and other implications of creating a paid informant class for
crimes that, while unacceptable, are arguably far "cleaner" than officially
purchased deception.

      ***************************************************************
        ** TRACING THE STINGBOARD: THE DICTATOR AND THE DARK SIDE **
             ************************************************

In piecing the public information available on the Secret Service documents
together with other sources, the Secret Service STING BBS, if the number
they provide is correct, accessed THE DARK SIDE in Phoenix, Arizona. A
self-proclaimed "hacker" known as THE DICTATOR identified himself publicly
as the sysop of the Dark Side. The Dictator introduced himself to others as
%name deleted% or as "%deleted%," and responded to "%deleted%" in various
forms of Electronic mail.  The search affidavit signed by Special Agent G.
Kirt Lawson of the Secret Service (header indicating Maricopa County)
acknowledges several facts:

1.  The U.S. Secret Service, in response to complaints of telephone
fraud, initiated an investigation into access abuses.  The investigation
described in this document specified the rationale for searching/seizing
RIPCO BBS. The raid occured on May 8, 1990 in concert with other raids
across the country.  The Secret Service announced to the media through
press conferences and releases that it was OPERATION SUN DEVIL.

2. The Secret Service, working out of Phoenix, established an undercover
BBS in Sept., 1988. The sysop was a "VOLUNTEER PAID CONFIDENTIAL
INFORMANT."

3. The informant was providing information *BOTH* to the Secret Service and
the Arizona Attorney General's office at least in 1989 and 1990, and the
Secret Service participated in STATE searchs.

4. The code number and address of the informant is provided, and he is
linked directly to the number of the BBS identified in the document as the
undercover sting board.

5. The Informant provided information taken from logs, conversations, and
other sources to the Secret Service.

The following sections of the affidavit detail this more fully:  The CuD
crew did not type in this version of the documents, and there may be
typographical or other minor errors. We reproduce it here as we received
it.

+++++++++++++BEGIN SECTIONS OF AFFIDAVIT++++++++++++++++++++

                        BACKGROUND OF THE INVESTIGATION

    14.  Over the past several years, the U.S. Secret Service has received
and increasing  number of complaints from long distance carriers, credit
card companies, credit reporting bureaus, and other victims of crimes
committed by computer hackers, phone phreaks, and computer bulletin board
users and operators (see Definitions section),  which have resulted in
substantial financial losses and business disruption to the victims.
Because the persons committing these crimes use aliases or "handles", mail
drops under false names, and other means to disguise themselves, they have
been extremely difficult to catch.  They also conspire with many others to
exchange information such as stolen long distance carrier authorization
codes, credit card numbers, and technical information relating to the
unauthorized invasion of computer systems and voice mail messaging
computers, often across state or national borders, making the
investigation of a typical conspiracy extremely complex.  Many of these
persons are juveniles or young adults, associate electronically only with
others they trust or who have "proven" themselves by committing crimes in
order to gain the trust of the group, and use characteristic "hacker
jargon."  By storing and trading information through a network of BBS's,
the hackers increase the number of individuals attacking or defrauding a
particular victim, and therefore increase the financial loss suffered by
the victim.

    15.  For all of the above reasons, the U.S. Secret Service established
a computer crime investigation project in the Phoenix field office,
utilizing an undercover computer bulletin board.  The purpose of the
undercover BBS was to provide a medium of communication for persons
engaged in criminal offenses to exchange information with each other and
with the sysop (CI 404-235) about their criminal activities.  The bulletin
board began operating on September 1, 1988 at 11:11 p.p., Mountain
Standard Time, was located at 11459 No. 28th Drive, Apt. 2131, Phoenix,
Arizona, and was accessed through telephone number [phone].  It was
originally installed on a Commodore personal computer, but on January 13,
1989 was reconfigured to operate on an Amiga 2000 personal computer.

    16.  The system was operated by CI 404-235, a volunteer paid
confidential informant to the U.S. Secret Service.  CI 404-235 was facing
no criminal charges.  Over the past eighteen months, information by CI
404-235 (see paragraph 16) has consistently proved to be accurate and
reliable.  The Arizona Attorney General's office executed six search
warrants related to affiant's investigation in 1989 and 1990 (affiant
participated in three of these).  Evidence obtained in those searches
corroborated information previously given to affiant or to George Mehnert,
Special Agent of the Arizona Attorney General's office by CI 404-235.  In
over a dozen instances, CI 404-235's information was verified through
other independent sources, or in interviews with suspects, or by means of
a dialed number recorder (pen register).  One arrest in New York has been
made as a result of CI 404-235's warning of planned burglary which did
occur at a NYNEX (New York regional Bell operating company) office.
Throughout this investigation, CI 404-235 has documented the information
provided to the affiant by means of computer printouts obtained from the
undercover BBS and from suspect systems, and consensual tape recordings of
voice conversations or voice-mail messages.

    17.  Because many of the criminal bulletin board systems require that
a new person seeking access to the telephone code or credit card sections
contribute stolen card information to demonstrate "good faith," when asked
to do so, CI 404-235 has "posted," (left on the system in a message)
Sprint, MidAmerican or ComSystems authorization codes given to affiant by
investigators at these companies for that purpose.

+++++++++++++++++++END SECTIONS OF AFFIDAVIT+++++++++++++++++

Drawing from the above information, the following suggests that The Dark
Side, The Dictator, and a person identifying as %name deleted% are the sting
board, the sysop, and the informant, respectively.

1. We have obtained telephone billings and computer telephone logs for
December, 1988 and through mid-1989 indicating that when one called (602)
789-9269, The Dark Side BBS was accessed. This suggests that the sting number
and The Dark Side were one and the same.

2. A person identifying himself as "The Dictator" called a number
of boards in 1988-1990 (among them The Central Office, The
Phoenix Project, Hackers' Den, Ripco, and others) and through 1990
continued to call such boards as Atlantis, Ripco, Face-to-Face,
BlitzKrieg, and others. In public and private messages on these
boards, The Dictator would typically include in his signature
both his name and his association with The Dark Side BBS:

++++ BEGIN EXAMPLE HERE +++++

From ->THE DICTATOR (#156)
Date ->01/12/90 11:08:00 PM

Hey %name deleted%...whats up?

Ask KL to give me a call and let me in on the details, (602-225-8581), or he
can leave me mail on Jolnet.  I'd rather him call me, instead of having that
message pass through the Jolnet system.

Any ways...  Ifits in Louie again this year, Im sure I can make it...let him
know..thanks.


The Dictator
The Dark Side BBS

+++++++++++End Example ++++++++++++++

The reference to "Louie" is to summercon.
The telephone number listed above was left on a public BBS (in a different
message) in the general message section by The Dictator in a public request
for another user to call him.  It is also the number that others have given
us independently as one he gave them for voice contact.  Hence, the number
appears directly and unequivocally linked to The Dictator. Attempts to
contact him through that number, however, reach a machine, and the person
who responds to that machine has, for several months, refused to return
calls collect or otherwise.

Even after allegations of his apparent role in the video tapes of Summercon
'88 surfaced, the dictator made no effort to hide his connection to The
Dark Side.  He left the following in response to several callers bickering
among themselves over a Chicago BBS also known as "The Dark Side." He makes
it clear the two are separate entities:

++++ BEGIN EXAMPLE HERE +++++

%logged circa Sept 25, 1990%

From: THE DICTATOR               Read: 27 times  [1 Reply]

Subject: The Dark Side

What area code is "The Dark Side BBS" that you two are refering to?  That
isnt the old "Dark Side Of The Moon" BBS is it?  Just curious.  I used to
run The Dark Side in 602, and its just a bit odd seeing the name pop up
with someone else as the SYSOP..  heheh

The Dictator
/s
shit

+++++++++++End Example ++++++++++++++

The Dictator of The Dark Side and the above messages as also linked to the
Secret Service informant by the nature of the logs he provided to them. We
will continue to provide details of the substance of the documents in
coming issues.  However, messages printed in the Secret Service document
allude to private e-mail sent to "CI 404-235," and these can be traced to
The Dictator as the recipient by examining existing e-mail logs retained or
acquired by others.

The Craig Neidorf trial led to the revelation that the Secret Service had
video-taped parts of Summercon '88 in St. Louis surrepticiously.  One
participant at Summercon who also viewed the tapes indicated that the tape
captured the events in The Dictator's room from an adjoining room.  If
true, it indicated that advance cooperation and preparation were necessary
between the participant-informant and the tapers.

Why is it necessary to reveal the identity of the informant?  We value
privacy and we have no wish to embarrass those who may be coerced into
performing unnatural acts for the government. However, if the Secret
Service are correct, their informant was a willing volunteer who was paid
for his services.  Those who find betraying alike the innocent and guilty
indiscriminantly for monetary gain are as ethically bankrupt as those who
buy the service. Our abridged dictionary doesn't contain the term for those
who get paid for performing unnatural acts, but it will come to us
eventually.

The informant was on a number of boards, and because he reported *FOR
MONETARY GAIN*, we cannot be sure how many innocent people had their logs
passed on, how these logs may have been edited or interpreted by law
enforcement, or what uses were made of the information once acquired.  The
strangely creative interpretations and cavalier disregard of "reality" by
federal prosecutors and some Secret Service agents are too troublesome to
allow presumption of good-faith use.  We STRONGLY URGE all persons who have
been or currently are on a board with The Dictator to search their logs and
consider filing a Freedom of Information Act request (see concluding file).

   ********************************************************************
                    ** THE DARK SIDE BBS: A SNAPSHOT **
   ********************************************************************

For those who wonder what kind of board The Dark Side was, it appears from
 reports and logs and other sources that it was not well maintained, had 8
message bases with few messages, and the discussion was fairly general:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

From:  <deleted>
Subject: The Dark Side BBS Log-In Screen
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 91 14:19:25 EST

Is this helpful? It was captured in March of '89. I think there were 8
message sections, but the only ones of any interest were 1 (general), 2
(security) and 3 (Da Elites). There were a couple of funny things about the
board. It seemed to be up and down a lot, and the sysop never seemed to
know how to run it. He was always having problems with the simplest things.
He was defensive and always seemed worried about narcs. He didn't have many
elite users and the ones listed didn't contribute.  There weren't many new
messages whenever I checked, and from the logs I'm sending, I only counted
less than 10 posters over a two week period. Really lame. Guess the rest of
us just logged on and logged off.  There was a rumor he was busted in
Arizona and turned informant and that he was living next to the
secret service in summercon '88.  Oh. I didn't edit anything out, so please
take out the names if you use this. To make it official, I got this off The
Dark Side BBS at telephone number 602-789-9269 in March of 1989.
I swear it's all true and virgin and blah blah blah.

                      ----begin Dark Side capture---

           ** 300/1200/2400 Baud **

           You are now connected to
              The Dark Side BBS

          The Information Capital Of
                 The World!


            SYSOP - The Dictator

Disclaimer :
   Any unauthorized access attempts may constitute a
violation of 1986 federal computer crime laws,
punishable by both civil and criminal remedies.
   The information made available on this BBS is
for informational and educational uses only.  I
am not responsible for any misuse or criminal acts
from this information.  It is the responsibility
solely by the user and we assume no liability for
any actions of the user.
   With use of system password you hereby agree to
the terms of this contract and shall be held liable
for any misuse of said contained information and may
expose you to both civil and criminal penalties under
law.
   Any unauthorized or misuse of valid logon and
passwords constitute both civil and criminal violations,
punishable under law.







Your name: xxxxxx
Password: #####

You are caller #xxx
Logged at xx:xx xx on xx-Mar-89

Last call : xx-xx-89
Access    : xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Privilege : 10
Time limit: 60
D/U ratio : Disabled
High msg  : xxx
Calls     : xx
Messages  : xx
Downloads : x
Uploads   : xx

Checking for messages...

(identifying msgs deleted)

These message(s) have been
marked for your retrieval

System contains xxx msgs (1-2xx)

Remember:
That the SYSOP, (Thats me), has the right to review everything on
this system!  I like the idea of covering my butt in all cases...
If you dont agree with the idea of my reviewing everything then
you should hang up now.  If you do agree with this, then at the
next prompt, type 'Y'.
N:No; Hang up
Y:I agree with the terms

Do You Agree With The Terms Of The Disclaimer? <Y/N> y

      13-Mar-89  02:01 AM
Subj: PAY ATTENTION!
From: Sysop
  To: All

Ok guys and gals...listen up..

Ive been informed that there is a strong possiblility that The Sorcer (sp) who
runs the code line is a narc.  This has not been confirmed, but it has not
been denied.  Please beaware of it and be careful.

There have been a few busts recently, so be aware of your surroundings and be
careful of everything your doing..ok, guys?  Perhaps you will respect my
security measures here on the system.  Id like to think that we can all trust
each other here..if you have any questions, suggestions, comments, ect...let
me know.

Thanks guys.  Take care.  Let me know what you know so we can stay one step
ahead of the competition.  (grin)
(REply Quit ?):

---End of intro to DARK SIDE BBS---

%moderators' comment: We agree there is a style to the sysop's
participation that seems probing. It is always possible that his
supervisors provided him with questions or other strategies to begin
various types of discussions or to lead topics in a particular direction.
As we obtain more logs, we will look for patterns.

    ******************************************************************
      ** A RE-EXAMINATION OF THE SECRET SERVICE "STING BOARD" CLAIMS **
    ******************************************************************
In CuD 1.18 (file 5), we reprinted the response from the Secret Service,
signed by John R. Simpson, Director, to Rep.  Don Edwards (Chair of the
House Subcommitee on Civil and Constitutional Rights), dated April 30,
1990.  Mr. Edwards submitted a list of questions to the SS asking about
surveillance of BBSs. Parts of it seem especially relevant to the issue of
informants.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

                                         DEPARTMENT OF TREASURY
                                         UNITED STATES SECRET SERVICE
                                          WASHINGTON, DC 20223
                                         APR 30 1990

 The Honorable Don Edwards
 Chairman
 Subcommittee on Civil and Constitutional Rights
 Committee on the Judiciary
 House of Representatives
 Washington,  D.C.  20515

 Dear Mr. Chairman:

 Thank you for your letter of April 3, 1990, concerning your
 committee's interest in computer fraud.  We welcome the
 opportunity to discuss this issue with your committee and I
 hope the following responses adequately answer your
 questions.

%First question and response omitted--see CuD 1.18 File #5%

 Question 2:

 Has the Secret  Service ever monitored any computer bulletin
 boards or networks?  Please describe  the procedures for
 initiating such monitoring, and list those computer bulletin
 boards or networks monitored by the Secret  Service since
 January 1988.

 Response:

 Yes, we have occasionally monitored computer bulletin boards.
 The monitoring occurred after we received complaints
 concerning criminal activity on a particular computer bulletin
 board.  The computer bulletin boards were monitored as part of
 an official investigation and in accordance with the directives
 of the Electronic Communications  Privacy  Act of 1986 (Title
 18 USC 2510)

 The procedures used to monitor computer bulletin boards
 during an official investigation have involved either the use of
 an informant (under the direct supervision of the investigating
 agent)  or an agent operating in an undercover capacity.  In
 either case, the informant or agent had received authorization
 from the computer bulletin board's owner/operator to access
 the system.

 We do not keep records of the bulletin boards which we have
 monitored but can provide information concerning a particular
 board if we are given the name of the board.

%Question 3 omitted%
 Question 4:

 Has the Secret Service or someone acting under its direction
 ever created a computer bulletin board or network that was
 offered to the public?  Please describe any such bulletin board
 or networks.

 Response:

 No, the U. S. Secret Service has not created a computer bulletin
 board nor a network which was offered to members of the
 public.   We have created an undercover bulletin board which
 was offered to a select number of individuals who had
 demonstrated an interest in conducting criminal activities.
 This was done with the guidance of the U.S. Attorney's  office
 and was consistent with the Electronic Communications
 Privacy Act.

%Question 5 omitted%

                       (end Secret Service Response)

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The SS response refers to only a single sting/undercover board, and because
the identify of the Dark Side was revealed as a sting board by the SS, we
conclude that the board referred to below and The Dark Side are the same.
We also suggest that this response is less than forthcoming, perhaps even
deceptive, for at least two reasons:

1.  Prosecutors can nitpick over legal nuances of the meaning of the
following:

      "The procedures used to monitor computer bulletin boards during
      an official investigation have involved either the use of an
      informant (under the direct supervision of the investigating
      agent)  or an agent operating in an undercover capacity.  In
      either case, the informant or agent had received authorization
      from the computer bulletin board's owner/operator to access the
      system."

To mere layfolk unlettered in law, the language implies that the sysop of a
surveilled system allowed access with knowledge that the surveillor was an
agent or informant.  If a sysop does not know that he/she has given access
to a potential agitator or provocateur, then the spirit of the law seems
compromised.  According to Dr Ripco, some users in the past did identify
themselves as affiliated with law enforcement. The Dictator was not one of
these.

A second claim in the SS response is less ambiguous. The Director writes:

     "No, the U. S. Secret Service has not created a computer bulletin
      board nor a network which was offered to members of the public.
      We have created an undercover bulletin board which was offered
      to a select number of individuals who had demonstrated an
      interest in conducting criminal activities.  This was done with
      the guidance of the U.S. Attorney's  office and was consistent
      with the Electronic Communications Privacy Act."

Now, we could quibble about what constitutes the "general public." But this
statement by The Director of the Secret Service does not correspond to
several facts.  First, and most offensive, is the claim that The Dark Side
"AS OFFERED TO A SELECT GROUP OF INDIVIDUALS WHO HAD DEMONSTRATED AN
INTEREST IN CONDUCTING CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES." This is simply not true! The
Dark Side was explicitly advertised on other quasi-public boards, including
The Central Office, and was found in the BBS lists of other boards.  In
PHRACK #20 (file 12), there is a two line advertisement reading: "The
Dictator is looking for users to call his bulletin board," and it provides
the number as [phone].  The Dictator also left the following message
on The Phoenix Project (which, despite it's reputation was open and readily
accessible):

--Begin Phoenix Project Message---
>
>13/100: the dark side
>Name: The Dictator #115
>Date: 10:42 pm  Fri Nov 04, 1988
>
>attention:
>      the dark side bbs is up and running...any user that wishes to become
>a part of history...please call..this is yet another hard working system
>that wishes to make its mark in computer history.
>
>      give us a call..
>
>                   the dictator
>
>dark side bbs                          602-789-9864
>
>summer con '88 members given imddiate access

The number given is different from the one later identified in SS
documents as the sting board number. Perhaps it was  typo, or perhaps
it was  and it was presumably changed shortly after this message was
left.  An anonymous sysop of a board in the Midwest told CuD that the
Dictator personally left the number of The Dark Side on the BBS, and
recalls at least one public message in which The Dictator left a
public message requesting people call it. This BBS in question was a
quasi-open board in that--as most boards, including public ones--after
a preliminary log-in, virtually everybody who seemed "non-loony" was
validated.  The point is that The Dictator was ACTIVELY SOLICITING
CALLERS OPENLY, and not simply inviting a "select few" to call the
board who "demonstrated an interest in conducting criminal
activities." One user who documents participation on The Dark Side
from shortly after it's inception states that The Dictator encouraged
him to tell his friends to call The Dark Side and, at one time shortly
after it "went up after being down" actually "seemed desperate for new
users."

According to information from several DARK SIDE users and logs they have
provided from The Dictator on his own system and on others, The Dictator
took an active role in generating message topics.  According to one source,
The Dictator would rarely provide information, but would attempt to generate
seemingly innocent topics that might, in retrospect, provide the kind of
"documentary evidence" (especially if take out of context) that could lead
to suspicion or to searches. The following were provided as examples of
"typical" ways that a discussion topic might be generated.  We observed
from the responses to these notes (that we deleted), that the innocent
question would elicit a technical or potentially incriminating answer of
the type used prejudicially in the sentencing memorandum of the Atlanta
Three, or of the type used to justify the raid on Steve Jackson Games. The
lesson we take from the following is that the Secret Service, through the
use of an informant, seems to have *ELICITED* statements that could be used
as evidence.

++++ BEGIN SELECTED SYSOP QUOTES FROM 1989 +++++


 Msg: #192  Sec: 7 - Security
      24-Feb-89  10:13 PM
Subj: ATTENTION
From: Sysop
  To: All

Ok guys...heres the scoop...

Since the incarsaration of one AZ KID, The Dark Side BBS has engaged PARANIOA
MODE..

If you didnt read in the previous post, the AZ KID was served with a search
warrent a few days ago for some local and otherwise federal phreaking.

This board will remain in paranioa mode until the developments of the AZ KID
come into play.  Lets just say that there are a few things that the AZ KID
could suggest that would/could be hazardous to this boards health.  SO, please
keep the posts to a .... ahem .... legal sence.

Thank you...

As updates to this situation come into play, you will be updated.  For those
of you who may have experience in these circumstances, please leave me
mail...as much info that I can gather in this pressing situation the more I
can help my upcoming ulcer.

Thanks

<Grin>


 Msg: #251  Sec: 1 - General
      09-Mar-89  02:06 AM
Subj: Ok Now what
From: Sysop
  To: All

Ok people...

Suggestion time.  Im looking for a few trustworthy people that want to help me
out with the system to help it grow... I need as many suggestions as possible.
 We have really been growing in the past couple of weeks, and I am gaing
multiple sources of info to boost the integrity of this system.

Help me out here people, I cant do it on my own...Leave me E-Mail

TD


 Msg: #248  Sec: 8 - Da Elites
      09-Mar-89  01:53 AM
Subj: #243 - divertors
From: Sysop
  To: (Name Deleted)

Interesting concept!
   However, I am not too familair with divertors...There are a lot of concepts
I understand and what not, however...lemme see if I can put this into words...

    What about open divertors?  It is true that divertors work like call
forwarding, however, is it theoridcally (sp) possible to find an open divertor
and have it dial your line?

    In high school just for the fun of it, we bought a DTMF chip from our
local Rat Shack store and basically built a call forwarding system that we
could attach to any ones line (if need be) to then have the DTMF chip call to
any number needed.

    It worked well...primitive, but well...

TD


 Msg: #247  Sec: 1 - General
      09-Mar-89  01:48 AM
Subj: #244 - alala
From: Sysop
  To: (Name deleted)

Who makes the most popular PBX system?

The reason for asking is for curiosity sake.  There are a lot of different
features within a PBX.....
 , TD


 Msg: #235  Sec: 8 - Da Elites
      06-Mar-89  05:18 PM
Subj: Radius's (R)
From: Sysop
  To: all

What can anyone tell us about radius's?  This is a subject area that I admitt
I am no good at!

TD


 Msg: #234  Sec: 8 - Da Elites
      06-Mar-89  05:17 PM
Subj: divertors (R)
From: Sysop
  To: all

What can any one tell us about diverters??

Discussion time!

Reply(s) #243



 Msg: #228  Sec: 7 - Security
      06-Mar-89  12:36 AM
Subj: Ummmmm
From: Sysop
  To: All

Ok guys...lemme ask a general question here that seems to have me a bit
confused...

About a week or so ago, AZ KID had a search warrent served on his house, and
they took in possession several tapes, tape player, ect, ect..  However, he
has not been arrested or charged with ANY kind of a crime.   He still does not
have his confiscated equipment back, so I am thinking that they think they
have something on him...

My question is, should he be charged by now??  Its got me a bit concerned.  I
thought usually they would have charged him with a crime, or let it go by
now....Unless of course he "plea bargined"...
 I dont know..Ive talked to him, but he "doesnt know whats going on"

So...What do you guys think,eh??



 Msg: #227  Sec: 7 - Security
      05-Mar-89  01:38 AM
Subj: CNA (R)
From: Sysop
  To: All

We all know that CNA gives you the Customer Name and Address if you have the
number, is there a department that has the Number if you have the Name, or
address, or something of that sort???

TD


 Msg: #225  Sec: 1 - General
      05-Mar-89  01:34 AM
Subj: #211 - Text files
From: Sysop
  To: (Name deleted)

Any kind of text file that you see fit to better this system.  Its the users
that make the system.  This BBS will work on a diplomatic system.  (And Ill
have thelast word..har har har)

Once youve been voice validated, Im sure youll understand what text files will
be benificail to this system

TD

+++ END SYSOP QUOTES +++

The tenor and content of these and other messages by the sysop suggest that
the SS's operative was not passive or particularly selective, and may have
generated the kinds of evidence for which he was being paid by his leading
questions.  If The Dictator was indeed operating under the "direct
supervision" of a field investigator, then it would seem that the SS knew
full well that the information it supplied to Rep. Edwards was, at best,
misleading: Recruiting users was for The Dark Side was hardly "selective,"
but quite open, and those who called stood a chance of being drawn into
discussion initiated by the sysop, a paid informant of the secret service,
who turned the logged files over to them.

It would seem that either the SS has little control over its operatives
(which suggests incompetency) or that it knows full well what its
operatives do and choses to redefine reality in self-serving ways.  Either
way, the responses by the SS to Rep. Edwards should be re-examined and
those who were involved in the undercover investigation held accountable.

         ********************************************************
                          ** WHAT'S THE POINT? **
         ********************************************************

When the federal government uses *paid* informants, nobody wins.
Officially sanctioned deception and betrayal, as Gary Marx argued in his
book "Undercover: Police Surveillance in America," is generally far more
detrimental to public order in the long run than whatever "crimes" the
deception targets.

When federal agencies set up sting boards and use informants to gather,
even generate, diverse information that is in turn given to agents as
potential "evidence" of wrong doing, there can be problems. In the 1960s
and 1970s, we have seen through various class action suits, congressional
hearings, FOIA requests, and other inquiries, how abuse of information by
those who collected it resulted in lost employment opportunities and other
uncool consequences.  In the past year, we have also seen the misuse of
information in indictments, sentencing memorandums, and especially in
several search affidavits and seizure warrants.

Most of us are concerned if agencies collect information on us against our
knowledge, because the potential for harm can be subtle.  Many readers of
CuD have called a variety of bulletin boards considerated to be
"underground." When an agency such as the Secret Service sets up a STING
board and PAYS an informant to capture logs, those of us who call these
boards have reason to be concerned with how our **LEGAL, LEGITIMATE** posts
may be interpreted and used by agents. When we recall that one sysop was
liked to a fraud conspiracy because of a two line comment that kermit is a
7-bit protocol used primarily on mainframes, our confidence in agents'
interpretive competence diminishes.

Our intent has not been to embarrass The Dictator. If it were, we would
include the name he uses when socializing with others.

IT WOULD ALSO BE TOTALLY REPREHENSIBLE IF OTHERS WERE TO ENGAGE IN
HARASSMENT OR OTHER RESPONSE AGAINST HIM! The CU has increasingly been
united by principles of justice, and to engage in unjust acts because we
feel others have done the same to us violates those principles we are
working toward.

Calls to the "voice number" The Dictator has left on at least one public
post on a public board, and given to others, have gone not received a
response. Messages left to him on BBSs have also not generated contact. We
continue to invite him to contact us and give his side of the story. There
are generally shades of grey in even the darkest images, and if he contacts
us we promise either a fair and impartial story, or, he can write his own
version and we will publish it unedited.

We also remind readers that the issue IS NOT an individual.  At stake in
all this is the issue of privacy and police power as we enter the 21st
century. When laws cannot keep up with technology, the consequences may be
ill-considered strategies for monitoring and punishing alleged wrong-doers.
As Gary Marx reminds us in his book "Undercover" (p. 233):

         In a democratic society, covert police tactics, along
     with many of the other surveillance techniques, offer us a
     queasy ethical and moral paradox. The choice between anarchy
     and repression is not a happy one, wherever the balance is
     struck. We are caught on the horns of a moral dilemma. In
     Machiavelli's words: %Never% let any state ever believe that
     it can always adopt safe policies...we never try to escape
     one difficulty without running into another; but prudence
     consists in knowing how to recognize the nature of the
     difficulties and how to choose the least bad as good."
     Sometimes undercover tactics will be the least bad. Used
     with great care, they may be a necessary evil.  The
     challenge is to prevent them from becoming an intolerable
     one.


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