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- Newsgroups: vmsnet.alpha
- Path: sparky!uunet!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!convex!rosenkra
- From: rosenkra@convex.com (William Rosenkranz)
- Subject: Re: Convincing the management
- Message-ID: <1993Jan22.233827.11919@convex.com>
- Sender: usenet@convex.com (news access account)
- Nntp-Posting-Host: convex1.convex.com
- Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA
- References: <1993Jan19.122854.22863@jyu.fi> <1993Jan21.143909.5254@mksol.dseg.ti.com>
- Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 23:38:27 GMT
- X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer
- Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and
- not necessarily those of CONVEX.
- Lines: 41
-
- >In article <1993Jan19.122854.22863@jyu.fi>, HOUGHTON@jylk.jyu.fi (DAVID HOUGHTON, LK) writes:
- > c) SUNs are not the way to go
-
- while SUNs might not be the way to go (SPARC is way behind the RISC curve),
- i would put HP up against DEC any day. the PA-7100 chip can easily outperform
- the alpha running at a much higher clock speed. considering that an under $50k
- HP 735 turns in SPECfp92 of 150 while the $316k DEC 10000 (at 200 MHz) does
- only 200 seems like the 21064 is a weak implementation of the basic Alpha
- architecture (which does have some interesting aspects). HP is even better
- with DP Linpack (40.8 MFLOPS vs the 10000's 42.5 or so). also the 1000x1000
- Linpack for alpha is actually lower than HP's (based on DEC's numbers in
- the november announcement). this tends to tell me that the tiny on-chip
- alpha caches and high latency off-chip cache is weak. also the fact that
- I/O busses off the chip run at most half the system clock speed does not
- help much either. i would expect a 200 MHz chip to get at least 180 MFLOPS
- on 1000x1000 linpack, if it were designed with technical (floating point)
- computing in mind. i also think HP has a better graphics story than DEC,
- though i am far from an "expert" in graphics.
-
- it really boils down to wanting Unix or VMS, IMHO. since there are lots of
- Unix vendors, there is more competition to get continuing improvements in
- price, performance, price/performance, features, etc. since only DEC offers
- VMS, they don't have as much of a need to continue improvements. while OpenVMS
- claims POSIX compliance, i suspect many if not most people will write their
- applications with non-POSIX facilities, making it difficult to port to Unix
- (on which POSIX is based). and while there are extensions to POSIX on Unix
- platforms, it is still generally far easier to port code between real Unix
- boxes. i would think that if someone wants a real unix environment, they
- would want something other than DEC (OSF/1) since alpha seems pricy for the
- real performance you can achieve.
-
- perhaps you should widen your search beyond just Sun and DEC.
-
- just my opinions...
-
- -bill
- rosenkra@convex.com
-
- --
- Bill Rosenkranz |UUCP: {uunet,texsun}!convex!rosenkra
- Convex Computer Corp. |ARPA: rosenkra@convex.com
-