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- Xref: sparky talk.rape:3120 soc.men:23206
- Newsgroups: talk.rape,soc.men
- Path: sparky!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!nucsrl!ddsw1!karl
- From: karl@ddsw1.mcs.com (Karl Denninger)
- Subject: Re: Drunk Sex = Rape?
- Message-ID: <C1DtAu.n47@ddsw1.mcs.com>
- Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1993 23:30:29 GMT
- References: <C186HJ.HEz@hplntx.hpl.hp.com> <16B5EA76A.ALI00BAW@UNCCVM.UNCC.EDU> <C1BpFC.A35@cs.mcgill.ca>
- Organization: MCSNet, Chicago, IL
- Lines: 61
-
- In article <C1BpFC.A35@cs.mcgill.ca> chuckies@cs.mcgill.ca (Charles J Savoie) writes:
- >In article <16B5EA76A.ALI00BAW@UNCCVM.UNCC.EDU> ALI00BAW@UNCCVM.UNCC.EDU writes:
- >
- >>I don't think that anyone will argue that if a woman is falling-down-drunk
- >>or semiconscious she is still capable of giving consent.
- >
- >I would. If she drank willingly, and gave clear consent, I would. Just like
- >she would be responsible for choosing to get into a car and drive.
-
- You got it. I draw the line where she can no longer say "yes".
-
- If, however, she is falling down drunk and I take her home, we end up in the
- bedroom, then she disrobes and slobbers "fuck me now you stud!" and I do,
- I have NOT committed rape. Even if she changes her mind in the morning when
- she's sober.
-
- >>HOWEVER, the question
- >>is, what about the one who has had perhaps one G&T more than is strictly
- >>advisable?
- >
- >Same as the man.
-
- You got it. If I do the same thing and end up in bed with someone I
- shouldn't have, its my responsibility and my problem.
-
- >>In the
- >>abovedescribed state she goes to bed with someone. The next morning she
- >>wakes up, hung over, looks over to the other side of the bed, and says:
- >>"WHAT was I thinking of last night?"
- >
- >Tough. As someone else mentioned, one is still responsible for their
- >actions while intoxicated, if the intoxication was willing.
-
- That's correct.
-
- >>is he,
- >>however LEGALLY guilty of rape? That would put him in the same catagory as
- >>someone who jumped the woman as she walked home, dragged her into the bushes,
- >>and. . . .To put the two in the same class would, I think, be unjust; however,
- >>I am uncomfortable with letting the first man totally off the hook, because,
- >>after all, he probably was on some level aware that when the woman said 'yes'
- >>it was at least partly the gin talking. Is there some lesser charge, perhaps
- > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ so what??
- >>even a misdemenour (sp?), he could be had up on?
- >
- >Do you think he should be LEGALLY guilty of anything? Why should he be
- >punished, what did he do wrong? If he was drunk himself, why is he more
- >guilty than she?
-
- I don't think a law should have been broken here, and if I was on such a
- jury, I would refuse staunchly to convict.
-
- >No bloody wonder the US has the highest per capita prison population in the
- >world.
-
- Yep. Its called refusal to take responsibility for one's own actions.
-
- --
- Karl Denninger (karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM, <well-connected>!ddsw1!karl)
- Data Line: [+1 312 248-0900]
-
-