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- Xref: sparky talk.abortion:57501 talk.politics.misc:69395 talk.religion.misc:27355 misc.legal:23170
- Newsgroups: talk.abortion,talk.politics.misc,talk.religion.misc,misc.legal
- Path: sparky!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!att!ulysses!allegra!princeton!phoenix.Princeton.EDU!niepornt
- From: niepornt@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (David Marc Nieporent)
- Subject: Re: Supreme Court Upholds Freedom of Speech
- Message-ID: <1993Jan22.172357.2535@Princeton.EDU>
- Originator: news@nimaster
- Sender: news@Princeton.EDU (USENET News System)
- Nntp-Posting-Host: phoenix.princeton.edu
- Organization: Princeton University
- References: <Jan.13.14.35.36.1993.7498@romulus.rutgers.edu> <Jan.14.05.09.02.1993.11547@romulus.rutgers.edu> <13931@optilink.COM>
- Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:23:57 GMT
- Lines: 55
-
- In article <13931@optilink.COM> cramer@optilink.COM (Clayton Cramer) writes:
- >In article <Jan.14.05.09.02.1993.11547@romulus.rutgers.edu>, kaldis@romulus.rutgers.edu (Theodore A. Kaldis) writes:
- >>In <1993Jan14.004714.17246@tessi.com> allen@tessi.com (Allen Warren) writes:
-
- ># # I would like to state that women will *always* somehow find a way to
- ># # get an abortion, whether it is legal or not, the difference is that
- ># # those who have no money will do anything to get one, even if it means
- ># # using a coat hanger, while those with money will find a doctor who will
- ># # perform the abortion at a high cost.
-
- ># Another, much more glaring, difference (which you seem to have
- ># overlooked) would be that women will think twice about the possibility
- ># of getting pregnant, and illegitimacy rates would probably drop
- ># dramatically. (And your real complaint is possibly grounded in the
- ># fact that you would find it much more difficult to get laid.)
-
- >This assumes that rational thought is involved with those pregnancies.
- >I doubt it. You are assuming that abortion was legalized, and this
- >caused the decline in public morals. I think it's quite the opposite --
- >the decline in public morals dramatically increased pressure for
- >easy access to abortions. Prohibiting it won't improve morality in
- >this country -- but improving public morality by persuasion will
- >dramatically reduce the demand for abortion.
-
- >Persuasion, not laws, is the key.
-
- Wow, I almost agree with something Clayton wrote.
-
- Except the part about "decline in public morals." Sex is not immoral.
- It was a *change* in public morals. Not a decline.
-
- ># # What I find so two-faced is how people like Bush and Quayle said
- ># # they'd support their daughter's decision *if* their daughter became
- ># # pregnant and decided to abort, yet these same two political people are
- ># # against abortion.
-
- ># Straw man. That was a loaded question that was posed to Quayle. You
- ># (and those who asked such a question) are more interested in
- ># discrediting those who stand up for morality than you are in the
- ># answer to that question,
-
- >I think the real answer is that Bush, Quayle, and many others, share
- >Mr. Kaldis' belief that making abortion illegal will cause a lot of
- >people in this country to start being careful about birth control
- >and self-control. It isn't that they want coat hanger abortions to
- >come back, it's that they honestly think that people are rational
- >enough to stop getting pregnant if they don't want to have a child.
- >I'm unpersuaded that this is the case.
-
- Bush doesn't have any beliefs. But other than that, yes.
- --
- David M. Nieporent | "We don't need anymore [sic] wretched refuse. It's
- niepornt@phoenix. | time to send the Statue of Liberty somewhere else"
- princeton.edu | -- Jack "Not a bigot" Schmidling, 1/7/93
- Baltimore Orioles 93 |
-