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- From: elrond@studio.disney.com (Root System Account)
- Newsgroups: alt.personals
- Subject: Re: Gays in the Military
- Date: 27 Jan 1993 17:44:19 GMT
- Organization: The Walt Disney Company
- Lines: 71
- Message-ID: <1k6hljINNsv9@angmar.studio.disney.com>
- References: <1993Jan27.032038.4262@Princeton.EDU>
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-
- Thomas E. Gray (tegray@phoenix.Princeton.EDU) wrote:
- : Mike, this satire fails for two reasons. First, it isn't funny, and
- : second there is no real analogy to be drawn between the situation that
- : gays face in a working environment dominated by heterosexuals and the
- : situation that black men face in an environment dominated by white
- : men.
-
- I'm not so sure about that. Discrimination is discrimination, what
- particular flavor it comes in doesn't really matter. The fact of the
- matter is that historically, EVERY TIME that the military is asked
- to back off a discriminatory position it make the SAME arguments.
- They weren't right when they made them about integrating blacks into
- white units, and they weren't right about allowing women into the
- military (and they aren't right about women in combat either for
- that matter). They certainly aren't right about gays. The fact of
- the matter is that gays serve in the military now, and always have
- and many have distinguished themselves.
-
- : The question of showers (so often raised these last few days) is not a
- : joking one. It is not a misunderstanding of a homosexual to believe
- : that he/she may be aroused by showering with others of the same sex
- : any more than it is a misunderstanding to believe that heterosexual
- : men or women may be aroused by showering with people of the opposite
- : sex. It is the feeling of discomfort (call it "shame" or "modesty" or
- : what you will) and self-consciousness that arises from nakedness with
- : those who are sexually attracted to a person that is at issue here.
-
- Well, this shows a real lack of understanding when it comes to gays.
- All of the gays I know indicate that there is no kind of sexual arousal
- involved with being in this kind of situation since they know that
- no one there would be even remotely interested in them sexually. Besides
- your suggesting that PEOPLE have no control over their desires. Frankly
- I would give everyone more credit than that. Finally, what about
- situations that involve contact between men and women in the military?
- There are any number of situations which place men and women in close
- contact. What about any sexual tension that might arise through those
- situations? Or, are you suggesting that women shouldn't be allowed
- to serve in the military either?
-
- : If you think about the logical extensions of that discomfort into
- : various interactions in the military you might very well conclude that
- : avowed homosexuals in the military would, in fact, interfere with
- : the ability of the organization to perform its job. You might conclude
- : that such a situation would not be detrimental, but you should do so
- : only after thinking about the real issues involved. Not all
- : discrimination is the same.
-
- As I mentioned above, there are any number of situations where sexual
- tension MIGHT arise between people in the military. Again, are you
- suggesting that ANY sort of situation of this kind needs to be avoided?
- If so, then you need an all heterosexual MALE military, which, I don't
- think is acceptable to our society any longer.
-
- : Please don't forget that the government is in the business of
- : discriminating, and rightly so. It is the job of the government to
- : decide who can drink, who can vote, whom one can marry, what is
- : pornography and what is art, etc.
-
- But, we expect it to discriminate ONLY when some over-riding concern
- FORCES it to do so. I don't see the over-riding concern here. All I
- see is a lot of fear and homophobia.
-
- --joerg
- --
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