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- Newsgroups: talk.abortion
- Path: sparky!uunet!paladin.american.edu!gatech!destroyer!ncar!neit.cgd.ucar.edu!kauff
- From: kauff@neit.cgd.ucar.edu (Brian Kauffman)
- Subject: Re: Pro-choicers must condone infanticide
- Message-ID: <1992Dec23.193014.13808@ncar.ucar.edu>
- Sender: news@ncar.ucar.edu (USENET Maintenance)
- Organization: Boulder CO
- References: <1992Dec22.203333.28731@ncsu.edu> <1992Dec22.234506.23392@ncar.ucar.edu> <1992Dec23.013411.7322@ncsu.edu>
- Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 19:30:14 GMT
- Lines: 52
-
- > = dsholtsi@csl36h.csl.ncsu.edu (Doug Holtsinger) writes:
- >> = kauff@neit.cgd.ucar.edu (Brian Kauffman) writes:
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
- >> *You're* the one who casually asserted that (see above)
- >> "there is no difference between a late-term fetus and an infant".
- >> Do you really believe there are no significant distinguishing
- >> factors between a late-term fetus and an infant?! <y,n>
-
- > There are factual differences between a late-term fetus
- > and a newborn infant, but I have not heard any arguments
- > from pro-choicers which would give *moral* weight to these
- > facts. Thus I conclude that there is no moral difference
- > between killing a newborn infant and killing a late-term
- > fetus.
-
- It's your second try at it, but I still can't tell whether this is
- supposed to be a "yes" or "no" answer to my straight-forward question.
-
- But let me be bold and claim that there *are* significant distinguishing
- factors between a late-term fetus & an infant (hence the rug is pulled out
- from under your "Pro-choicers must condone infanticide" argument.
- But I'll do more than make a simple assertion, I'll back-up this claim with
- specifics. As examples, consider the following:
- 0) All fetus' (of any type) are *inside* a woman VS. all infants are
- *outside* a woman. (ie. major physical difference)
- 1) because a (late-term) fetus is literally *inside* a woman,
- it is infringing on that woman's bodily autonomy to a degree that
- is *obviously* far beyond any infringement an infant is capable of.
- (ie. major moral difference)
- 2) because a (late-term) fetus is literally *inside* a woman,
- it poses a *real* threat on that woman's life & health to a degree
- that is *obviously* far beyond any threat an infant is capable of.
- (ie. major physical & moral difference)
-
- While you may consider these differences insignificant
- (or rendered invalid because of some as yet unarticulated reasoning),
- it's rather obvious that *many* will not, hence you must establish
- their insignificance before you can build an argument based on
- their insignificance -- but you have not.
- Consequently YOUR WHOLE "Pro-choicers must condone infanticide" ARGUMENT
- IS RENDERED INVALID because it *requires* your casual "no difference"
- assertion to be true when in fact this assertion can easily be called
- into serious question with minimal effort.
-
- I suspect this was pretty obvious to all involved right from the start,
- but then t.a is largely about spending undue effort to repeatedly
- point out obvious errors in reasoning. Some honest criticism: I think
- such faulty arguments actually hurt the pro-life cause because they serve
- to reinforce the association of faulty reasoning with pro-lifers.
- Ie. pro-lifer's are their own worst enemy.
-
- -Brian
-