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- Newsgroups: soc.motss
- Path: sparky!uunet!gatech!rpi!uwm.edu!daffy!uwvax!zazen!anderson
- From: anderson@macc.wisc.edu (Jess Anderson)
- Subject: Like Hell He Is (was Re: Cramer is our problem too)
- Message-ID: <1992Dec31.050549.12169@macc.wisc.edu>
- Sender: news@macc.wisc.edu (USENET News System)
- Organization: Madison Academic Computing Center, UW-Madison
- References: <C03Kx4.K1@exnet.co.uk>
- Date: Thu, 31 Dec 92 05:05:49 GMT
- Lines: 111
-
- In article <C03Kx4.K1@exnet.co.uk> s0xjg@exnet.co.uk (Xavier
- Gallagher) writes:
-
- Excuse me, but you are really *quite* mistaken on a number
- of points.
-
- >I have got yet more mail asking me to stop posting on
- >Cramer threads.
-
- I think that's the right thing for people to do, m'self. If
- you've heard from 39 people, as you say (I know I was one of
- them), what are you so fixedly determined to continue? My
- supposition is that you would not do that if you really knew
- what you were doing, therefore by implication, you probably
- don't.
-
- >The logic seems to be that he is not a motss issue.
-
- He is not a *new* issue. He has been repeating the same
- rants here literally for years. He has nothing to say that
- he has not said dozens and dozens of times. He is
- pollution, not philosophy.
-
- >Well, if homophobia and ignorance are not motss issues what
- >are?
-
- Excuse me again, but you see, you are missing the point, ...
-
- >No, don't tell me...haircuts.....new shoes...$700 silk shirts..
- >..that new Tom Cruise movie..
-
- ... in a manner that suggests you have a private agenda
- here, and Cramer's bilge is merely your vehicle. For the
- sake of that agenda, it appears, you are quite willing to
- subject a lot of other people to still more of the same old
- pollution.
-
- There are homophobes whose antigay bigotry is so engrained
- that *no* amount of arguing will dislodge it. For those
- people, it's part of their identity to be bigots. They
- would literally cease to exist if they gave it up. Cramer
- is one of those. He's obsessed. Why should so many people
- have to endure more of it, merely to please you? Are you
- *that* important?
-
- >Cramer is a motss 'issue'.
-
- > HE TELLS LIES ABOUT US.
-
- >I should think everyone knows about the concept of "the big lie".
-
- Everyone knows both the general case and the Cramer
- particular case. Everyone. It's not exactly
- earth-shattering news in these parts, however novel or
- interesting it may seem to you.
-
- >Well, in ignoring Cramer you play into his hands.
-
- That is nearly the exact opposite of the case. By speaking
- to Cramer, you feed his ego. He feeds on your outrage; it
- nourishes and sustains his warped personality.
-
- >Your silence indicates guilt. Your silence indicates agreement.
-
- Excuse me again, but you have some fucking big nerve, saying
- a dumbass thing like that around here. That's just plain
- old bullshit, Xavier. And who set *you* up as Guilt-Tripper
- Royal, by the way?
-
- >In being silent you become one of the silent majority, how
- >many acts of petty spite and ignorance have been justifed in
- >the name of the silent majority?
-
- This is a sound enough principle when soundly applied, but
- in the given case it is not soundly applied. Not dignifying
- Cramer's filth with a reply does not equate with silence, nor
- is it condoning the kind of thing he represents. It's
- unimaginable that you would not already know this.
-
- >Those of you who do not like Cramer in the group can use the 'n'
- >key. Just the way I will when I get bored with him.
-
- Very generous of you. As long as you're having fun,
- everyone else can rot, is that it? And you give little
- moral lessons on guilt and complicity. Looked in any
- mirrors recently? Where did you learn your manners?
-
- >Stop e-mailing me about the jerk. (39 bits of e-mail)
-
- You're getting mail not just *about* a jerk, but it seems
- likely it will soon be mail *to* a jerk. So don't be one.
- Wise up.
-
- >** Genius, Plumber & Madman
-
- Not by your actions, with a leaky philosophy, and just rude.
-
- <> Once you learn more about the ramifications of some
- <> of the "PC" ideologies, you see that there are much
- <> more complex issues lying beneath the surface. When
- <> you apply your solution, based on conclusions drawn
- <> from surface knowledge of a situation, you get a
- <> solution which, on the surface, makes things much
- <> better, while in reality, does not actually change
- <> anything. In a worst case situation, it makes things
- <> much much worse. -- Jeff Dauber ( dauber@sgi.com)
- --
- [Jess Anderson <> Madison Academic Computing Center <> University of Wisconsin]
- [Internet: anderson@macc.wisc.edu <-best, UUCP:{}!uwvax!macc.wisc.edu!anderson]
- [Room 3130 <> 1210 West Dayton Street / Madison WI 53706 <> Phone 608/262-5888]
- [---------> Discrimination, Bigotry, and Hate are not Family Values <---------]
-