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- Newsgroups: sci.physics
- Path: sparky!uunet!munnari.oz.au!spool.mu.edu!sgiblab!nec-gw!netkeeper!vivaldi!aslws01!aslss01!terry
- From: terry@asl.dl.nec.com
- Subject: Re: hidden variables
- Message-ID: <1992Dec31.222704.19821@asl.dl.nec.com>
- Originator: terry@aslss01
- Sender: news@asl.dl.nec.com
- Nntp-Posting-Host: aslss01
- Organization: (Speaking only for myself)
- References: <31DEC199211004292@author.gsfc.nasa.gov>
- Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 22:27:04 GMT
- Lines: 53
-
- In article <31DEC199211004292@author.gsfc.nasa.gov>
- rkoehler@author.gsfc.nasa.gov (Bob Koehler) writes:
-
- > Would someone be so kind as to summarize the argument that hidden variable
- > theories violate causality?
-
- They don't. Hidden variable theories simply say that the values controlling
- two "readings" of what was originally a single quantum event (e.g., release
- of two oppositely polarized photons) were fully determined when the event
- happened. They are very mundane, actually, requiring only that each "piece"
- emanating out of such a quantum event should carry all the information ever
- needed to make accurate statistical predictions about it.
-
- As John Bell showed, such theories are mathematically incompatible with the
- predictions of ordinary quantum mechanics, which requires "spooky action at
- a distance" to make its predictions. QM basically refuses to acknowledge
- that distance is an issue in determining the form of such predictions --
- whether a Angstrom apart or a lightyear apart, standard QM simply says that
- the exact statistical profile for measuring the second of two correlated
- quantum values (e.g., spin direction) will invariably depend on the outcome
- of the first measurement. You cannot separate the two in the classic (and
- much more intuitive) local-info-only style one would naturally expect.
-
- However (and simply ignoring the many person-years of "debate" in sci.physics
- on this issue), I would strongly suggest that if you look carefully at the way
- it is set up, this very odd QM "spookiness" does _not_ violate causality any
- more than fully local "hidden variable" theories do. Causality violation
- means the abilty to transfer a message upon which some very real action can
- be taken. The QM version just does not allow that, since no matter how you
- arrange it the "correlations" will be recognizable _only_ after you bring
- records back together from both sites and compare them. The latter process
- of "bringing together" the records enforces a speed-of-light delay that keeps
- the universe nicely consistent and prevents any serious (past-changing) info
- from being transferred. You really just cannot use the QM correlation to
- call your own grandmother and tell her to shoot grandpa, because by the time
- you can "convert" any QM correlations into "info" by comparing records, you
- will find yourself nicely embedded back in conventional relativistic time.
-
- Bell's "Speakable and Unspeakable in Quantum Mechanics" has some delightful
- essays on these subjects. For example, check out "Bertlemann's Socks" for
- an easy and fun (but quite solid) explanation of hidden variable theories.
- It really is a "must read" book for anyone interested in such issues.
-
- Cheers,
- Terry Bollinger
-
-
-
-
- Hidden variable theories are no more profound than Bertlemann's
- socks -- a fellow John Bell knew who liked always to wear a different color
- of sock on each foot. If you saw one foot with a green sock, then you could
- know that the other foot had a color other than green.
-