NetNews Usenet Archive 1992 #31/NN_1992_31.iso/spool/rec/org/sca/17227

Text File | 1992-12-31 | 9.5 KB | 200 lines

Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Path: sparky!uunet!stanford.edu!enterpoop.mit.edu!bloom-beacon!INTERNET!dont-send-mail-to-path-lines
From: [e-mail] (Justin du Coeur MKA Mark Waks)
Subject: Thinkwell; Drachenwald ideas; Alternate Crown Types
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Mr Background)
Organization: The Internet
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 19:07:59 GMT
Lines: 189

Re: Thinkwell

Volfred asks about other SCA fora, and Dur supplies a half-jesting reply.
The only one on Dur's list that really exists is Thinkwell, the newsletter
of SCA philosophy, which is published irregularly (*roughly* bimonthly)
by Mistress AElflaed of Duckford. The address is:

    Thinkwell
    c/o Sandra Dodd
    8116 Princess Jeanne NE
    Albuquerque, NM

I forget the Zip Code, although I believe it's 871-something-something. The
scary part is that I have the rest memorized...

(I'm beginning to think that this should be an FAQ.)


Re: William's ideas for Drachenwald

William posts a bunch of fascinating ideas for things that the Kingdom of
Drachenwald (or the Principality of Nordmark) might undertake, to improve
the way they play the game. Some various comments are in order, especially
on the practical politics of the ideas:

>1. Fighting and archery. Make it law that any rewards for fighting or
>   archery shall require the use of authentic equipment.

I like the motivation, but I'm not sure that laws are the best way to
accomplish the goal. In the US, at least, you would get *endless* arguments
about the definition of "authentic"; you might have fewer rules-hackers
in Sweden, but it still smells like a problem to me. I would instead make
explicit that authentic gear is one of the qualities to be looked for in
deserving gentles, and encourage the culture (ie, the Royalty and maybe
the members of the Orders) to select with that in mind.

Flexibility is, in my experience, almost always a Good Thing, and
changing the culture is far more important than changing the laws.
If you can change the culture, you don't need the laws, and changing
the laws won't accomplish anything if you don't change the culture...

>   We could stop participating in IKAC, stop shooting Royal Rounds
>   and other competition forms which are post-period. We could invent
>   our own archery tournament system based on medieval precedents.
>   We could stop having elimination tournaments and act to design all our
>   tournaments according to medieval precedents.
>   Whether or not these changes need to be codified is an open question.

I would say almost certainly not. Again, it's hard to be sure how
Swedes would react, but a bunch of "thou shalt not"s would breed a
lot of resentment around here, especially if other Kingdoms were
doing it. Far better, again, to gently shift the culture to encourage
the period forms, and shove out the non-period ones by starving them.
(Note that this is exactly the tack I've always taken for encouraging
period dance, and it seems to work in the long run.)

>   a. Decrease the specialization of the three orders, so that candi-
>      dates are as free as possible in choosing which peerage they
>      wish to belong to. For example, a person whose main contributions
>      are A&S, but who is also a competent fighter, might be made a
>      knight instead of a laurel if he so wishes, and vice versa.

What a marvellous hack. You might be able to get away with this one
politically, too. I like it...

>   b. Organize the knights as an Order of Knighthood, and decrease the
>      "order" nature of the other peerages. Organize the Laurel as a
>      guild of masters, or a society of (guild) masters. Invent some
>      other period-style form of organization for the Pelican (modelled
>      on the Inquisition? :-))

I don't know *what* would be the appropriate model for the Pelicans,
but I definitely like the ideas for the other two. Since the Laurel
more-or-less is intended to model period guildmastery, organizing it
along those lines sounds very appropriate, and possibly a lot of fun.
(It might even get us away from the "second-class knighthood" problem
that some people see with the Laurelate, by making the Laurel something
distinctively different, with its own flavor and traditions.)

I like this one a *lot*, and don't see any real problem with it.

>   c. Tag down on the extreme elitism of EK peerage.

Could you explicate? I can see a couple of possible meanings to this
(some of them true), and I'm curious about which one you mean...

>   Corpora states that Kingdoms and Principalities have the right to
>   select their rulers by combat. It does not say for how long, or how
>   the combat shall be conducted.
>
>   We could e.g. hold Crown tournament once every three years... or let
>   the winner of the first Crown remain King until he chooses to step down,
>   more or less like a territorial Baron.

(Stunned silence.) Wow. The Board would *flip* if you tried this one,
but you might be able to get away with it if it doesn't actually
violate Corpora.

I'd probably recommend some means of unseating the Royalty if reigns
were that long -- three years is long enough for a bad Monarch to do
actual damage, or for a good one to burn out and not realize it.
Something modelled on a war for succession (handled *very* carefully
in order to avoid ugly politics) might work, and would have an amazingly
period feel to it. (Although, on second thought, it reminds me of nothing
so much as Knightriders.)

I think that this idea needs very, very careful reality-checking, but
I could see something along these lines working, possibly very well...

>   We could even have a Crown list where anyone who has participated in
>   fighter practise or a tournament during the last 12 months, is banned;
>   non-fighters could then receive a temporary authorization, borrow some
>   weapons and armor, and fight it out. Thus we could have rulers selected
>   by combat, making it Corpora legal, who are really not fighters...

Possible, but you'd have to work carefully with the Corporation on this
one. I can pretty confidently guess that the Board would veto such an
idea in the US, because of the insurance issues; you might be able to
get away with it in less-litgious Sweden, but I'd advise not springing
such an idea on the Board suddenly...

>6. Theme events. Make it law that at least one or two Kingdom events
>   per year shall be theme events where the internal SCA structure
>   does not apply.

As has been pointed out, this would probably violate Corpora. Again I'd
say that the best way to do it is not by laws, but by custom -- if you
encourage people to adhere to the theme strongly enough, there should be
sufficient peer pressure to prevent most people from violating it. And
mandating events by law rarely works -- an event springs from the heart
of its autocrat, and a *serious* theme event is a labor of love. The thing
to do is run one or two such events, make it clear to people that such
events *can* work and are fun -- if you can manage this, you should get
a steady flow of such events afterwards.

(This has more-or-less happened in Carolingia; we started doing theme
events of various sorts a year or three ago, and they're now all the
rage. The specific-culture events haven't been quite as strict as what
you'd like to see, but they've worked decently well and have been a
*blast* both to run and attend...)

>7. We could counteract the drift away from the middle ages and toward
>   the baroque by outlawing fencing, shinai and all other forms of combat
>   other than heavy.

Speaking from the US point-of-view: around here, explicitly outlawing
something like that would crystallize a movement, and would almost
guarantee that it would eventually happen. It's considerably more
effective to starve the activity of attention, and just not encourage
it, I think...

(Of course, being a late 16th century type myself, I'm not terribly
fond of the idea of eliminating fence, but far be it from me to tell
you what you can or can't do with your group...)


Re: Other Forms of Crown Tourney

Tibor writes:
>You asked about the Law, Mikjal.  You are correct.  On a Bertramesque tangent,
>what other forms of tournament are there, that meet a useful criteria. For
>example, just as fair, completable in a finite time frame, fun to particpate
>in...  A judged tournament is period, but how do you make it fair enough?
>A round robin is fair, but how do you complete it in one day, with 80
>fighter's present?

A "warlord" (accumulation) tourney would probably work decently; it would
test the person's ability to lead, at least on the small scale, as well as
the ability to fight for themselves. And I'm still fondest of the Acre
system, which starts as an elimination tourney, becomes a melee, and
finishes with a war -- this really tests practical leadership skills, which
are probably the most practical skills for a Monarch...

(Granted, the Acre system is only marginally more period than the standard
SCA one, but at least it's an small improvement...)

                -- Justin du Coeur
                   Fount of Opinion

Random Quote du Jour:

"I have finally thought of the ultimate villain for the comics:  Physics Man.
 Physics Man's only power would be to enforce the laws of physics.  Colossal
 Boy would collapse under his own weight.  Laurel Gand would suffer time
 dilation.  Spider Man would get blood cancer.  Superman would have to eat
 a WHOLE lot or spend month at a time in close orbit around the sun.
 Batman would be on a respirator.  Kitty Pride would be twenty three.
 Powergirl would own a br..well, you get the point;-)"
        -- [e-mail]