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- Path: sparky!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
- From: robear@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Jay Michael)
- Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
- Subject: Re: armor, physics, and aluminum
- Message-ID: <85826@ut-emx.uucp>
- Date: 26 Dec 92 10:20:31 GMT
- References: <1992Dec23.224300.3219@microsoft.com>
- Sender: news@ut-emx.uucp
- Organization: The University of Texas at Austin, Austin TX
- Lines: 80
-
- >
- >Aelfgar von Echternach writes:
- >> The purposes of SCA armor seem to me to be: 1) functional and
- >>2) to _look_ authentic. That's one of the nice things about aluminum, that
- >>it will look like shiny steel, and is also quite functional in it's role
- >>to protect. The definition of functional is: able to withstand the abuse
- >>of a rattan mock sword, or other mock weapon. These constraints
- >>necessarily divert our attentions from authentic armor.
- >
- >Vittorio del Fabbro replies:
- >
- >1. Aluminum doesn't look or sound like steel. Even Mr. O'Connor says so.
- >(Stainless doesn't look like real steel either, but that's *my* problem.)
-
- In my experience, steel, stainless, and aluminum all look pretty much alike
- in their non-corroded state. I will agree with you that most likely common
- medieval steel had a coating of corrosion that would make it brownish
- (such is the color of my current loaner knees), but I don't see why we
- can't assume that armor has been well kept, and thus shiney (or perhaps
- it's fresh from the armorer ;), which is why I don't think aluminum is
- visually distracting. This lends to the knight in shining armor concept :).
- As far as the sound goes--I can't imagine using aluminum for anything but
- plates, and the sound of metal plates rubbing together I think is rather the
- same.
-
- >
- >2. You seem to be arguing that the prevalent armor technology of the middle
- >ages was unable to protect its users from the abuse of a rattan sword,
-
- If you mean protect as in, getting nasty arm bruises and causing painful
- damage to elbows and knees during repeated practices, yes, that is what
- I mean. I'm sure they had the _techology_ to protect against this, but since
- they didn't actually practice with rattan, they didn't bother.
-
- >which we use because it is so much less lethal than the real thing. One
- >could conclude that medieval armor was therefore unable to protect its
- >users from the more lethal abuse of a steel sword or halberd,
- <stuff deleted>
-
- Quite the contrary, medieval armor was excellent protection against the
- lethal sword, because it covered the vital areas and was quite strong.
- I think we both agree on that.
-
- >3. In other words, "Steel can't stand up to rattan, so we shouldn't use it."
-
- I see the point you are trying to make, that steel will hold up excellently
- to rattan, and I quite agree. My point is, so will aluminum, which
- can be made to look period (IMHO). I think the main reason I am on the
- side of lighter body armor is because of comfort--lighter body armor won't
- affect my fighting speed (since it is resting on my shoulders, not my arms),
- and will greatly reduce fatigue, thus not robbing me of enjoyment of the game.
- I'm not sure about the wieght arguments for arm armor--I can see how one
- would want to minimize that explicitly to maintain good sword speed. I think
- this is fair in the sense that, since the minimum protection is elbows
- (and forearms, at least in Ansteorra), adding neat looking plate arm armor
- could be a severe penalty. But I have no direct experience in that aspect.
-
- <more stuff deleted, points generally well taken>
- >Vittorio del Fabbro
-
- I think the general point I'm trying to make is that, since the armor
- we make for SCA fighting is meant to protect against concussions, bruises
- and joint damage, as opposed to protecting against lethal sharpened weapons,
- we necessarily have to make our armor differently, and from a different
- approach. I agree unequivocably that the armor should _look_ as period
- as is feasible, as the end goal, while still functioning properly. I don't
- agree that deviances from period manufacture outside of this goal should
- be frowned upon as un-SCA. I do think that every effort that is made
- towards period construction is commendible, though not required, and I will
- be suitable impressed to see such examples in person. I have absolutely
- no qualm with others having their goal as to make as period armor as possible,
- I believe it is their own right to choose their own goals.
-
- Aelfgar von Echternach
-
- P.S. I am interested as to the details of Vittorio's armor, I would like
- to know what amount and design of steel people are capable and are fighting
- in, I think it would be most intriguing. I think I'm stuck in declaritive
- first person ;). Merry Christmas all!
-
-