home *** CD-ROM | disk | FTP | other *** search
- Newsgroups: rec.audio
- Path: sparky!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!att!fang!tarpit!bilver!bill
- From: bill@bilver.uucp (Bill Vermillion)
- Subject: Re: polarity inversion
- Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
- Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1993 14:45:01 GMT
- Message-ID: <1993Jan1.144501.24136@bilver.uucp>
- References: <92364.114116U37426@uicvm.uic.edu> <1992Dec29.210759.17315@e2big.mko.dec.com> <shetline-311292015736@128.89.19.85>
- Lines: 85
-
- In article <shetline-311292015736@128.89.19.85> shetline@bbn.com (Kerry Shetline) writes:
- >In article <92364.114116U37426@uicvm.uic.edu>, U37426@uicvm.uic.edu
- >writes...
-
- >> Just how does polarity inversion affect the sound of a stereo? I have
- >>never had a system that had this feature. I have no idea what it does.
- >>Could somebody explain? thanks!
-
- >Sound waves in air consist of radiating patterns of compression and
- >rarefaction (increases and decreases in pressure). .....
-
- >Well, so what? If one channel in a stereo pair is in phase and the other is
- >not, it makes a big difference. The two speakers fight each other and end
- >up canceling out much of the sound. But if both match...
-
- It won't cancel all frequencies, just the ones that are of the
- wave-length between the speakers or listening position.
-
- >With the way many recordings are made, only minimally-miked classical
- >recordings are likely to even have recoverable absolute phase anyway. With
- >something that has been multi-miked, multi-tracked, mixed, edited, and
- >recorded in separate sessions with different setups, absolute phase is
- >completely jumbled and mixed with inverted phase -- different for different
- >voices and instruments, on different tracks or parts within tracks.
-
- It even boils down to the way the studios are put together. Too many
- studios don't take proper care in design, layout, and construction.
- When we put the studio up that I was CE for many years ago - we tested
- absolute at every point of the way.
-
- We had a device that we plugged into the mike-pre and hit a button. A
- quick 'pop' and then an LED lit up showing phase one way or the other.
- We verified every single mike line back to the console - there were
- many of them. Then we verifed every mike cable. Then we verified the
- signal path through every piece of external peripheral equipment.
-
- And about every 6 months or so we verified mike performance by setting
- a pair of indentical mikes up, inverting phase on one, and listen to
- what did not cancel. Did this with the Neumann, AKG & Sony
- condensors, the dynamics normally didn't match that well. Odd man out
- went back to be refurbished. Running a studio where everything is
- 'right' isn't cheap!
-
- Many people just plug and go. We found many pieces of 'pro' gear that
- had phase inversion. Our multi-track inverted phase in sync mode but
- not in normal play. That could be a problem for ping-pong, but we
- usually had enough tracks. (Our staff producer really looked forward
- to that, as we constantly had to ping on the 16 track machine. He was
- incredulous during our first big 32-track session when I said "George,
- we don't have any tracks". He was so intent on miking as much stuff in
- true stereo as possible we ran out in the second day of tracking!)
-
- Of course anytime you use any analog EQ units you are going to get some
- phase shifts too. And before digital, it was not uncommon to see
- phase shift (group delay) in the upper ends of the tape recorders.
-
-
- >So, except for the stereo channel mismatch mentioned above, absolute phase
- >comes down to (IMHO):
-
- >1) YOU probably can't hear it.
- >2) Maybe no one can hear it.
- >3) If you can hear it, you probably won't care.
- >4) If you can hear it, and you do care, you often can't get it.
- >5) If you can hear it, you do care, and you can get it, you may not know
- >when you've got it. (Do I push the little button, or don't I?)
-
- Agree on 1-4, and on 5 it's easy. Push the button until it sound right
- to you!
-
- >There are, of course, people who make extravagant claims as to the enormous
- >effect of polarity. Some person on this news group recently spoke of CDs
- >that went from unlistenable to wondrous with the touch of a polarity
- >switch. The answer to this phenomenon is not likely to be found in audio
- >literature, but somewhere is DSM III...
-
- One man's "unlistenable" is another's "sounds fine to me".
-
- And there have been times when I have gotten out of an elevator a few
- floors early because the wow&flutter in the system affected me too much.
-
-
- --
- Bill Vermillion - bill@bilver.oau.org bill@bilver.uucp
- - ..!{peora|tous|tarpit}!bilver!bill
-