NetNews Usenet Archive 1992 #31/NN_1992_31.iso/spool/misc/legal/21594

Internet Message Format | 1992-12-21 | 5.0 KB

Path: sparky!uunet!meaddata!joem
From: [e-mail] (Joe Mehrle)
Newsgroups: misc.legal
Subject: Re: Attorney v. Lawyer
Date: 21 Dec 1992 15:16:54 GMT
Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH
Lines: 82
Distribution: misc
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <1992Dec20.4141.28403@dosgate> <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: baseball.meaddata.com

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Charles E Thorne) writes:
|> In article <1992Dec20.4141.28403@dosgate> "nigel allen" <[e-mail]> writes:
|>
|> >In England, lawyers are either solicitors or barristers. Both solicitors
|> >and barristers can appear before the lower courts, but normally only a
|> >barrister can appear before a higher court. A client cannot hire a
|> >barrister directly; instead, the client must go through a solicitor, who
|> >deals with the barrister.
|>
|> >Judges of the higher courts are all former barristers.
|>
|> >Canadian lawyers identify themselves as "barrister and solicitor" rather
|> >than "attorney". One exception is Quebec's notaries, who have legal
|> >training comparable to that of the regular lawyer, but whose practice is
|> >normally restricted to non-adversarial matters (real estate
|> >transactions, wills, trusts, etc.). In the rest of Canada, notaries
|> >public have the same limited functions as notaries public in the United
|> >States, except that in Ontario (and possibly certain other provinces)
|> >all lawyers are automatically notaries public.
|>
|> In the United States a notary essentially provides an "official" witness
|> to documents (placing a seal on the document) and attesting that the
|> person appeared before them, and signed the document.  Courts will not
|> accepted documents (such as deeds) which have not been notarized.  Also,
|> auto titles must be notarized when transferred.  The only other things
|> notaries can do is take depositions.
|>
|> Notaries pass a state exam and are certified by the state.  Lawyers become
|> life-time notaries, whereas non-lawyer notaries must renew they notary
|> charter (until recently, in Ohio, non-lawyer notaries could only practice
|> in their county of residence -- but could also become notaries in any
|> adjoing county).
|>
|> At one time, becoming a lawyer (attorney) only required one to pass the
|> bar exam.  Now most states require graduation from law school before one
|> can take the bar exam.
|>
|> In Ohio no one may represent another person at the bar except an attorney.
|> Para-legals can only perform under the supervision of an attorney (mostly
|> preparing paper work).
|>
|>
|> Charlie

In the United States a Lawyer is one who completes law school and
acquires a J.D. an attorney is defined as one who can take and
represent clients which is someone who has passed a state bar.  And,
as Charlie astutely pointed out you can always represent yourself in
litigation (called Pro Se) but you  may never represent a third party
unless you pass a bar and all bars require the taker hold a valid J.D.
degree.  Also, all bars require the taker to pass a rigorous character
and fitness investigation before sitting for the bar, which means you
better have a fairly clean background or you may hold a J.D. but you
won't be able to pass the bar and become an attorney.
Also, to keep the court system running efficiently because it is
already overloaded, if you chose to represent yourself (Pro Se) you
are still bound by all the procedural rules that govern attorneys, and
if you are not careful and act in "Bad Faith" (or just not in "Good
Faith") you could get slapped with a rule 11 sanction and before you
know what hit you, you will have lost your case and will be paying the
other side's attorney fees.  I am a 3rd year law student and quite
frankly I would never have any one represent me in any litigation
(particularly criminal) except a qualified attorney.  Just my $.02
worth.  Also, you can (and probably will) get slapped with a rather
large fine for the unauthorized practice of law if you try to
represent someone else in any litigation.  Currently, there is a
strong movement within the bar to require all paralegals to have a
minimum level of education (Bachelor's degree) and a requirement that
they pass a national exam to become licensed.  This is because the
current level of competence varies so greatly with paralegals and
currently attorneys are sued for malpractice for paralegal mistakes,
if these requirements are met people could directly sue paralegals in
malpractice and maybe then paralegals could begin to do more picayune
legal work on their own without the required attorney supervision.
Naturally, paralegals are resisting but the bar usually gets what they
want :-).

--
Joe Mehrle                       "I don't know why I
Mead Data Central, Dayton, Ohio   did it, I don't know why I liked it,
Internet: [e-mail]       and I don't know why I'll do it again"
UUCP:     !uunet!meaddata!joem           -Bart Simpson-