home *** CD-ROM | disk | FTP | other *** search
- Path: sparky!uunet!usc!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!rochester!rit!jeh
- From: jeh@cs.rit.edu (James E Heliotis)
- Newsgroups: comp.software-eng
- Subject: Re: Debugging the process
- Message-ID: <1992Dec30.185928.367@cs.rit.edu>
- Date: 30 Dec 92 18:59:28 GMT
- Sender: news@cs.rit.edu
- Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology, Rochester, NY
- Lines: 53
- Nntp-Posting-Host: edward
-
- kirby.roch803@xerox.com (Mike Kirby) writes:
-
- >All the SEI is saying is that you need to have a management process in
- >place before an engineering process will be able to take hold. and you
- >need both processes before you can determine if a product failure is
- >due to engineering or to management. AND you need to be able to
- >measure both. Once you can do these things then you will be able to
- >continously improve the processes.
-
- peterd@pjd.dev.cdx.mot.com (Peter Desnoyers) writes:
- >
- >This is the clearest statement I've seen yet of the SEI
- >misunderstanding that generates so much opposition among engineers.
- >
- >Management is not engineering. Management has the ability to hinder
- >engineering, and it has the ability to facilitate it. However, good
- >engineering can be performed (with difficulty) under bad managers;
- >conversely, good management does not guarantee good engineering.
- >
-
- I am not sure about this response. Are you saying that
- kirby.roch803@xerox has a misunderstanding? If so, I am not sure that
- your statement is really a rebuttal. kirby talks about an engineering
- PROCESS, which is part of what SEI is trying to tell us. You
- (peterd@pjd.dev.cdx.mot) are saying, I think, "Given a group of good
- engineers, they can do a good job, with or without the support of
- management."
-
- This is the classic argument against software engineering process
- standards, but let's face it; not all of us are good enough to satisfy
- the above quote. We still need a defined process to make the mediocre
- people somewhat productive, both in engineering and management. I also
- suspect, that if the good people followed the same processes, that this
- would also facilitate communication between the good ones and the
- mediocre ones.
-
- In summary, 'good' engineers may not require 'good' management, but
- good management is required for the engineering process to run smoothly,
- and that's what you need to pull the majority of the engineers into your
- program.
-
-
- ============================================================================
- Jim Heliotis Computer Science Department
- Rochester Institute of Technology
- jeh@CS.RIT.EDU Rochester, NY 14623-0887
- 716-475-6133 [FAX] 716-475-7100
- ============================================================================
- --
- Jim Heliotis
- Rochester Institute of Technology
- Rochester, NY 14623-0887
- jeh@CS.RIT.EDU
-