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- Xref: sparky comp.edu:2235 comp.lang.scheme:2802 comp.lang.logo:373
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- From: manis@cs.ubc.ca (Vincent Manis)
- Newsgroups: comp.edu,comp.lang.scheme,comp.lang.logo
- Subject: Re: Spread of Scheme and SICP?
- Date: 21 Dec 1992 10:08:58 -0800
- Organization: Institute for Pure and Applied Eschatology
- Lines: 48
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- Message-ID: <1h517qINN6hd@columbia.cs.ubc.ca>
- References: <CAROMA.92Dec21002710@cookie-crisp.ai.mit.edu> <BzM8Iu.2Fx.2@cs.cmu.edu>
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-
- As a college educator who uses Scheme, I believe that Logo is a better
- HS preparation for university CS studies which use Scheme than Scheme
- is. There are several reasons for this:
-
- - most HS CS students will never take further CS studies, and Logo has
- the virtue of having a syntax which is (though less elegant, to my eye)
- easier to learn than that of Scheme.
-
- - the syntax of Logo is visibly different from that of Scheme, which
- acts as a hook for a post-secondary CS teacher. Students who have
- studied a language ``completely'' in HS sometimes show up at college or
- university thinking that they have nothing more to learn, and take CS
- courses for easy credits. By using a language which is visibly different
- (though with much of the same semantics), it is possible to signal to
- the students that something new is about to be learned (students
- unfortunately use syntax as the major clue about what they're supposed
- to be learning).
-
- - the ability and background of HS CS teachers varies widely. Some have
- very strong CS backgrounds, and are quite capable of developing new
- curriculum. Others have weaker CS backgrounds, and are only capable of
- following an existing syllabus. Still others have essentially no CS
- backgrounds (they may, for example, be `computer' teachers, whose
- knowledge is essentially that of computer usage), and are not able to
- teach the abstruse concepts required to teach somebody how to write
- computer programs. Such teachers will at least do no damage if they are
- using a language not used in post-secondary institutions.
-
- Although I believe that Logo would be a *wonderful* language for
- high-school CS, I am very pessimistic about the likelihood of it
- becoming widespread. First, in BC at least, CS is not receiving a great
- deal of attention as a priority subject for in-service education; in
- fact, CS12 (the intro to CS course in Grade 12) is not exactly
- flourishing. Second, the HS teachers who are interested in learning how
- to teach CS generally go and take a couple of university CS courses,
- which generally use Pascal, Modula, or (heaven help us!) C. I think it
- would take a real effort, including writing textbooks (Brian Harvey's
- `Computer Science Logo Style' books are outstanding, but educators want
- a choice of texts), pre- and in-service training courses, etc., to make
- this happen. I'm not sure the will is there.
-
-
-
- --
- \ Vincent Manis <manis@cs.ubc.ca> "There is no law that vulgarity and
- \ Computer Science, Langara College literary excellence cannot coexist."
- /\ 100 W. 49th Ave, Vancouver, BC, Canada (604) 324-5205 -- A. Trevor Hodge
- / \ Co-author of ``The Schematics of Computation'', Prentice-Hall, Jan 1994
-