NetNews Usenet Archive 1992 #31/NN_1992_31.iso/spool/bit/listserv/christia/18333

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Date:         Tue, 29 Dec 1992 20:38:26 EST
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Subject:      Christian Nation 2-1
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                          Our Founding Fathers:
            Did they intend America to be a Christian Nation?
                      John Ankerberg Show. 10/04/92

    Prayer Removed From Schools - June 25, 1962 - Engle V. Vitale
    The Bible Taken Out Of Schools - June 17, 1963 - Abington V. Schempp
    Removal Of The Ten Commandments From Schools - Stone V Graham, 1980

    Part 2-01 ---------------------------------------------------------->

    John: Welcome to our program. Did our Founding Fathers really want
religious principals to be a part of our government and our society? What
evidence is there that will bring us to a conclusion one way or the
other? Well my guest today is the president of Wallbuilder Presentations,
David Barton. He believes these questions can be clearly answered and
tells us how. Listen.

    David: Was America founded as a Christian Nation? Many today would
say absolutely not. They would say the Founding Fathers never intended
for any religious principles at all to be part of public society, public
life, public affairs. Now, others are a little more moderate and they
say, "Well, they may have, but it's hard for us to know today. It's
really difficult to know."

    Well such is not the case. We can know whether the Founding Fathers
wanted religious principles. We can know by their very writings. We can
also know by their very acts. You see one thing we appreciate about our
Founding Fathers is they were prolific writers. They did with writing
what we do with VCRs, and cassettes and tapes. They recorded it all. They
were prolific writers. The writings of George Washington are some 39
volumes, very small print, tiny print, and it's that way for most of the
Founding Fathers.

    What we'll look at in this program is whether the Founding Fathers,
from their own writings, wanted religious principles to be a part of
American Society.

    John: Well, if there is evidence, that the Founding Fathers wanted
God, the Bible, and Christian morality to be a part of our government,
our schools, and our public life, what is it? We start with Benjamin
Franklin, one of our most famous Founding Fathers.

    David: Did the Founding Fathers want religious principles in American
society as part of government? Well, there could be a logical argument
made that maybe the real religious Founding Fathers wanted religious
principles in government, but not all the Founding Fathers were
particularly religious. So certainly the least religious of the Founding
Fathers, people like perhaps Jefferson or Franklin, they surely wouldn't
have wanted religious principles in government. Well such is not the
case. Even if we select those who are conceded to be the least religious
of the Founding Fathers, we find that they were strong advocates for
religious principles in government.

    For example, consider Benjamin Franklin. Now, Benjamin Franklin was
part of the Constitutional Convention. And the records in that
Constitutional Convention were really given to us by a number of the
Founding Fathers who were all writers, but perhaps the best records come
from James Madison. James Madison kept meticulous notes on what went on
in the convention, others kept notes as well, Jonathan Dayton, and Yates
and others.

    But James Madison records a very famous speech given by Benjamin
Franklin. This is probably the most famous speech of Franklin's political
career that came on Thursday, June 28, 1787. In that particular speech,
recorded by Madison, the Convention was really at a crossroads, for the
convention was falling apart. They argued, they fought, they bickered,
they could not agree on anything, and so even the New York delegation had
left and gone home in disgust, saying "We have better things to do than
fight with you."

    It was seeing the convention crumble that brought Franklin to the
point of making this speech. For here he was, 81 years old, he was in
very poor health, he's the patriarch of this convention. He's the old man
himself, the old sage, the wise man, and he was in such poor health they
literally had to carry him in, and off, of the convention floor. But he
rose and reminded the delegates that they used to do in that very room.
Here they were, up against difficult problems, they were not able to
resolve and he said "Do you remember what we used to do here 13 years
ago?" For it was in that very room that they had the very first sessions
of Congress, and Franklin had been a member of those first sessions of
Congress, and the records of Congress that they prayed faithfully every
morning, every day and sometimes in multi-hour prayer sessions, and
Franklin remembered that.

    And he said, "Have you noted that we have not yet started this
Convention asking God for help? We've gone for days, for weeks, we've not
even solicited His aid." And really, we've become fairly presumptuous
because we've seen God's direct intervention so often in the American
Revolution that we just assumed that He was on our side. But it was
Franklin that brought these delegates back to their senses. He told them,
he said "In the beginning of the contest with Great Britain, when we were
sensible of danger, we had daily prayer in this room for divine
protection." He said, "Our prayers, sir were heard, and they were
graciously answered." He said "All of us engaged in the struggle must
have observed frequent instances of a super intending providence in our
favor. And have we now forgotten this Powerful Friend, or do we imagine
we no longer need His assistance?" He said, "I've lived, sir a long time,
and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth,
that God governs in the affairs of men."

    He said "If a sparrow cannot fall to the ground with out His notice,
is it probable that an empire can rise with out His aid? We've been
assured in the Sacred Writings that 'Except the Lord build the house,
they labor in vain that build it.'" He said, "I firmly believe this, and
I also believe without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this
political building no better than the builders of Babel."

    Now here is a Founding Father that admittedly conceded to be one of
the least religious of the Founding Fathers, calling the entire group
back to prayer, at the Constitutional Convention. You see he said this
was a near fatal mistake, "We have not yet asked for God's assistance."
He said "I am firmly convinced that if we don't get God's aid, we're
going to end up just like the Tower of Babel. We can never survive
without God's assistance." He said, "Let's get serious about this." And
he made a motion. He said "I therefore make a move that henceforth
prayers employing the assistance of heaven and it's blessings on our
deliberations be held in this assembly every morning before we proceed to
business."

    Now this is a speech that lead to the establishment of chaplains in
the House and the Senate. They knew that this is so important that must
never again forget it. And so chaplains in the House and the Senate were
not allowed to be members of Congress who might be distracted by their
duties, and jobs, and requirements. No, these were to be people whose
only purpose was to get these Congressmen to get the Congress of the
United States before God every morning before they went off to business.

    John: Next,

    MAKS> Time for a break. Good point to break this. It's a little
longer than what I wanted anyhow, but breaking this in half wouldn't have
left very much to discuss.

Maks.