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- Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
- Path: sparky!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bruce.cs.monash.edu.au!merlin!iris.resntl.bhp.com.au!resntl.bhp.com.au!pel
- From: pel@resntl.bhp.com.au (Paul Osborn)
- Subject: Re: Knives and forks
- Message-ID: <pel.61.725064322@resntl.bhp.com.au>
- Sender: news@resntl.bhp.com.au (Usenet news system)
- Organization: BHP Research - Newcastle Labs
- References: <92350.145832HERSCH@auvm.american.edu> <1992Dec16.094159.14905@osf.org>
- Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1992 22:45:22 GMT
- Lines: 95
-
- In article <1992Dec16.094159.14905@osf.org> sp@osf.org (Simon Patience) writes:
- >From: sp@osf.org (Simon Patience)
- >Subject: Re: Knives and forks
- >Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1992 09:41:59 GMT
- >In article <92350.145832HERSCH@auvm.american.edu>, <HERSCH@auvm.american.edu> writes:
- >> In article <glen.724433823@cs.wisc.edu>, glen@slate.cs.wisc.edu (Glen Ecklund)
- >> says:
- >> >
- >> >So how did the Europeans come to use the backs of their forks? (Or is it
- >> >ethnocentric of me to think that the convex side is the back? Are European
- >> >forks decorated on the convex side? US forks are pretty on the concave side,
- >> >and the convex side often has the name of the manufacturer.)
- >> >When I eat peas or mashed potatoes, I use the fork in my right hand, like a
- >> >spoon. But I've seen Europeans mash peas onto the backs of their forks with
- >> >a knife. Now that strikes me as odd.
- >
- >Some things to note.
- >
- >UK cutlery (in my experience) have the manufacturers name on the stem or
- >the back of the part in your hand. Both the convex and concave side at the
- >business end may be decorated but is not necessaarily so.
- >
- >Try putting a fork into your mouth convex size up and then concave side
- >up and you will find one of two things, when the concave side is up (US
- >usage) either your elbows will stick out more or your wrist will hurt
- >if you try to keep them in. In British schools, as many kids are jammed
- >onto a table as possible (it is a small island remember) so the art of
- >keeping the elbows tucked in is developed at an early age and this all
- >helps.
- >
- >> It strikes me as odd, too. But you go too far in imputing this behavior
- >> to "Europeans". It is my observation that the English do indeed wield
- >> their cutlery in this manner, but that continental Europeans do not,
- >> holding the fork concave-side upwards during mouthful preparation and
- >> plate-to-mouth transfer operations.
- >
- >Although I think you go to far the other way. I know of Europeans who do
- >follow the British manner.
- >
- >> I intend no insult to the English,
- >> or at least none beyond their manner of table-implement manipulation,
- >> but I find the way they eat bizarre.
- >
- >The feeling is completely mutual. :-)
- >
- >> Not only do they hold their
- >> forks upside down, not only do they mash peas on to the backsides
- >> of their forks with a knife, but I've observed many who will mash
- >> or spear a bit of every item on the plate for a single mouthful --
- >> perhaps a bite of beefsteak, some peas, some mashed potatoes, and
- >> a bit of salad.
- >
- >Not everyone mashes peas onto a fork, some of us can manage without the
- >mashing. It takes years of practice though and the use of an otherwise
- >idle part of your brain.
- >
- >As for the mixing of food on the *same fork*, how discraceful! Could you
- >explain just why wishing to taste a mixture of flavors in the same
- >mouthful is so outrageous? Funnily enough the foods on your plate are
- >sometimes designed to complement each others flavors so why only allow
- >them to mingle in your stomach when it is too late for your taste buds to
- >enjoy them?
- >
- >> I don't know whether non-English inhabitants of the British Isles
- >> do the same thing; if they do, consider this taunt directed at
- >> them as well :-)
- >
- >How about British people who don't inhabit the British Isles?
- >
- >Simon.
- >
- >--
- > Simon Patience
- > Open Software Foundation Phone: +33-76-63-48-72
- > Research Institute FAX: +33-76-51-05-32
- > 2 Avenue De Vignate Email: sp@gr.osf.org
- > 38610 Gieres, France uunet!gr.osf.org!sp
-
- Apart from the flavours complementing one another, they can sometimes be
- used to disguise one another. As a child, I used to combine the things I
- didn't like (but was forced to eat) with something I did like so as to be
- able to eat it without actually tasting it. As Dennis the Menace once said "
- There would be a vast number of foods I wouldn't like if it wasn't for
- tomato ketchup". Incidentally, Australians of Brittish descent are taught to
- use their forks convex side upwards, and exclusively in the left hand, at
- least they were in my day.
-
-
- -------- PAUL R OSBORN, Research Scientist, Sensing Technology --- /\/\ --
- BHP Research - Newcastle Laboratories, Australia / / /\
- Snail : P.O. Box 188, Wallsend, NSW 2287 / / / \
- Tel : +61 49 51-0605 Fax : +61 49 50-2126 / / / /\ \
- Telex : AA 28768 \ \/ / / /
- Internet: pel@resntl.bhp.com.au \ / / /
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