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- Newsgroups: alt.rush-limbaugh,talk.politics.misc,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics.bush
- Path: sparky!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!menudo.uh.edu!sugar!jpsb
- From: jpsb@NeoSoft.com (Jim Shirreffs)
- Subject: Re: Your own words, of course != bigot
- Organization: NeoSoft Communications Services -- (713) 684-5900
- Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1993 06:50:59 GMT
- Message-ID: <C07sD3.3w5@NeoSoft.com>
- References: <C03KAA.2zG@NeoSoft.com> <1992Dec31.133533.734@uswmrg.mrg.uswest.com.mrg.uswest.com>
- Lines: 99
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-
- Sh*t! The Lensman! I was hoping to avoid this.
-
- >>The short version is: homosexual sex is a
- >>behavior which is *not* embraced by most Americans. It is outside of our
- >>shared values. Continued erosion of [our] shared values will harm our society.
- >>Therefore it should not be given the same status are heterosexual behavior.
-
- >This has been the essence of your argument in this forum, and it is not an
- >uncommon point of view. However, I find it a particularly scary one, and
- >one that threatens the very core of our values as a country.
-
- Not surprising since you scare the hell out of me too.
-
- >The idea that the strength of our society is based on sharing as many of the
- >same values as possible is contrary to my understanding of the principles
- >this country was founded on. The only values that it is important that we
- >all share are those which allow us to enjoy the freedoms and benefits of the
- >culturally diverse society (and world) that we are.
-
- Greg, come on, get real, god I hate you libertarians your worst then the
- damn communists. STOP rationalizing EVERYTHING. People expect others, their
- neighbors, friends and community leaders to share thier values. This is
- human nature! This is the way we are! It is the way we always have been,
- sure we adjust our values system as time passes. We learn that some of our
- inherited values just don't work anymore, so painfully we cast them aside.
- Maybe this process of change is taking place right before your eyes!
- But we have every right to expect others in our society to share our values.
- And by enlarged most Americans *do* share a J/C morality.
-
- Why do you think the pilgrims came over here in the first place? To get away
- from people that didn't share their values. Dido for other early settlers.
-
- Do you think that society functions because of laws? It doesn't my friend,
- society functions on trust. I trust you to behave in a manner similar to
- mine. I trust you not to steal because we both *believe* stealing is wrong, not
- illegal, wrong. There is a BIG difference between illegal and wrong. Illegal
- is breaking a rule ("rules where made to be broken", right?). Wrong is
- betraying our shared values. When you do something wrong you are ostracizing
- yourself from all those that trusted you.
-
- >The most important core of those "shared values" are Life, Liberty and the
- >Pursuit of Happiness. Yet, there are those who find diversity (in the form
- >of differences from their personal or religious ideals) to be some sort of
- >personal threat. They would rather see a "homogenized" society. So, they
- >attempt to have their personal "values" (read "morals") adopted as the
- >"correct values."
-
- Tell me greg what do you think about English, do you think it would be
- "good" if all Americans where able to speak English? Read and write
- English. You better say no Lensman or you're the biggest hypocrite posting
- on the internet.
-
- >One of the most scary examples of this is the way people insist on
- >perpetuating myths about homosexuality. There is no ethical justification
- >for treating gays any differently than the rest of us, yet some people
- >insist on doing so, and use the issue to try to fool people into thinking
- >that this has some "value" to our society, when it is, in fact, a
- >=curtailment= of Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.
-
- What myths? How can you even use a word like "ethics", you have no concept
- of right and wrong, as far as you are concerned everything is OK. Aren't
- you the one that said there was no reason to separate men and womens living
- quarters in the military? Aren't you the one that said no one has a right
- to privacy in the military? Aren't you the one that tried to start the
- "Hey how the debate going" thread to feed your insatiable ego? Now just
- then my dialog with the gays and their friends is getting constructive
- you jump in and call me "scary" and accuse me of "perpetuating myths about
- homosexuality". And I'm supposed to be unethical? Shit!
-
- >The day that we, as a society, cease to value diversity over "uniformity"
- >(i.e. "shared values") is the day that our society has lost it's most
- >valuable quality.
-
- Yea, Yea, Yea. More rhetorcal garbage.
-
- Why do you think there are so many murders, robberies, rapes, assaults, etc?
- I'll tell you why Lensman, because a large part of our society no longer shares
- our belief that human life is precious, because a large part of our society
- no longer respects private property, because a large part of our society no
- longer respects individuals rights. And that is just the "tip of the ice berg"
- Lensman. How many cheat in school? How many steal from insurance companies?
- How many people plagiarize others works?
-
- A much better judgement would be:
-
- The day that we, as a society, cease to value our morality is the day
- that our society goes to hell.
-
- >Greg Bradt aka ()The Lensman()
-
- Greg you are a very bright fellow. Why don't you give up your libertarian
- Utopian bullsh*t and start dealing with the real world. The real world is
- very pragmatic my friend.
-
- jim shirreffs
-
- i speak for myself and only myself
-
-