NetNews Usenet Archive 1992 #31/NN_1992_31.iso/spool/alt/games/sf2/6176

Text File | 1992-12-31 | 10.1 KB | 185 lines

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Path: sparky!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!el27166
From: [e-mail] (This Space for Rent)
Subject: How to counter-throw
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Net Noise owner)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 11:22:26 GMT
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Okay, I'm sick you whiners out there complaining about how hard it is
to get out of ticks.  In fact, it's not hard at all.  Once you learn how
to counter-throw effectively, throws and ticks won't peeve you as much.
All you need to do is learn how to counter-throw 50% of your ticks.  At
that rate of uncertainty, most people would rather not take the chance.

(Psychological studies show that given a choice of having $1 or a 50/50
chance at having $2, most people choose $1.)

So, let's start with the easiest ones to counter and move on to the
hardest ones.

1)  Ken/Ryu's flying knee, throw:
If they're really bad tickers, they'll do the knee early in the jump.
This is a sure sign of a No-Thrower trying to tick.  If they do this,
you can walk into the hit and then throw.  That is the simplest sac-throw.
If you're playing an arcade which 'allows' throwing, you can walk into
roundhouse kicks which are timed to early and sac-throw.  Beware, if
you don't know what you're doing, you could get comboed.  It takes a
little practice to know when you can and can't sac-throw.

Once you've mastered the sac-throw, you can try to block and then throw.
The key here is not to tap the buttons until AFTER your opponent lands.
If the opponent hit you high, wait until he gets on the ground before
trying to throw.  Then, you can tap the buttons as much as you like.
You will NOT be able to throw the opponent while he's in the air, so
why push the buttons?  When you push the buttons like that, the computer
interprets it as your intention to do a punch.  You can't.  You're still
temporarily 'stunned' from the block.  But you can throw, even though
you can't do a normal move.

2) Ken/Ryu's short, short, throw or other variations:
Some people think these are impossible to get out of.  You have to
catch me offguard to pull on of these off me.  For the less advanced
player, you can play anticipation.  If you THINK your opponent is going
to try this (and it looks REALLY obvious), then try to throw after the
first or second jab, depending on what you think your opponent will
do.

Always counter-throw backwards (toward standing defense).  There is
no advantage in counter-throwing forwards.  Some characters (Guile)
get messed up with their charge if they counter-throw forwards.

So if you're playing anticipation, wait for that first tick to hit and
then move the joystick from defensive crouch to standing defense and
hit your button immediately.  If you do it right, your opponent will
get thrown out of an attempted throw or roundhouse.  I've thrown
No-Throwers out of their short, short, roundhouse patterns just because
that's my reaction.  They still consider it 'cheap'.

Once you're confident with using the anticipation counter-throw
technique, you can move up to reaction counter-throw techniques.
This is necessary if they people you play use tick-fakes (they're
a lot of fun, really!).  The ones which occasionally get me involve
the dragon-punch.  They go like:  short, short, <.1 second pause> DP.
The reason is that the very brief pause is my cue to counter-throw.
If the pause is NOT inserted, I know there is no way for me to get
thrown.  The opponent will do a roundhouse sweep or flub a throw attempt.
That slight pause in button pressing MUST be there in order to throw.
So listen for it.  If you hear it, counter-throw as described above.
Most people don't try to fake a tick since they think the tick itself
is more effective.  Once the tick becomes INeffective, then they'll
try something else.  So it's your job to force them to try to fake-tick
you :-).  It's a compliment to you, since it says they fear your
counter-throwing abilities.

Fake-fake-ticks:  What I like to do is make it seem like I'm NOT going
to tick, but then come in for the tick anyway.  In a typical situation,
I'll start my short kicks, and the opponent with be trying to counter-
throw before he gets up.  He fails, and gets hit by the shorts.  So
I do three of them, and he stops pounding on his buttons... THEN I
come in for the throw.  It's nasty and very surprising.  In this
situation, you're not supposed to coutner-throw.  Do a roundhouse
sweep instead.  Use your discretion.  Of course, there are even more
fakes, but I won't go into them.  It seems most people can't even
counter-throw consistently, so the world of fakex5-ticks and other
subtleties would be lost on them.  This is a whole dimension of SF2
for you to discover, if you choose.

The flying roundhouse, walk in and throw tick:
Again, this one looks pretty obvious when it's coming.  Players at
UIUC tend to do combos after their initial roundhouse is blocked.
If they don't do a combo and start walking up, then it's a sure sign
that something sneaky is about to happen :-).

Okay, so now that you know your opponent is going to try something
after you blocked a well timed flying roundhouse or fierce, what
can you do?

I'll tell you what you CAN'T do:  You can't do a normal move, and you
can't do a special move, and you CAN'T throw.  That's right.  Immediately
after blocking, you can't do ANYTHING!  But that's okay, because if you
block, your opponent CAN'T do anything to you while you're in this
'blocking stun'.  Shortly afterwards, you stun will be gone and you CAN
do something.  But you must do the right thing.

You can do a special move:  DP, Blanka Ball, or whatever.  You may
put the joystick motions for a DP or SPD into the buffer after you block,
but it won't come out until after you're out of your 'block stun'.
Incidentally, doing this with the SPD is an easy way to stop ticks.
Just do a SPD from Def. Crouch to Def. Crouch everytime you block a
high attack.  If they happen to come in too close, they're taken for
a ride!.  However, doing a DP, Blanka Ball or whatever may leave you
vulnerable to fakes and such.  (I fake Blanka's into doing balls into
DP's and fake Ken/Ryu's into doing useless DP's which get thrown or
roundhouse swept).

So what you want to do is counter-throw, because it doesn't leave you
as vulnerable.  And besides, that's the point of this post, remember?
Well, when you're in your 'block stun'--- loosely defined as the time
in which no special moves may come out, even though you 'performed' them,
do NOT try to throw.  You cannot put the throw into the buffer like you
can with the special moves.  You must time is so that you press the button
to throw IMMEDIATELY when you are able to.  Not a second before, not a
second after.  And only do this when you know your opponent is within
your throw range.  So what do you do in the meantime?  BLOCK!  In defensive
courch.  Your opponent can't hurt you.  Even if s/he tries to throw, s/he
will fail.  If you keep tapping the buttons, you're sure to get thrown
because the computer interprets that to mean you want to perform a normal
move.  If it comes out, it'll just help extend the throw range of your
opponent.

So, there's really only two things to consider:  the range at which you
are able to throw, and the time at which you are able to throw.  You
probably know the range, if you play with throws at all.  And you certainly
must know the timing, if you've played the game at all.  So just put the
two together.  Only throw when your opponent is in range, and you are able
to throw.  In any other case, sit in defensive crouch. your opponent can't
hurt you.  And remember not to tap the buttons before your opponent is
in range, or before you're ABLE to throw.  If you do, you'll mess up your
counter-throw.

I find the easiest tick to counter is Guile's follow the sonic boom/throw.
I am very rarely caught by this tick or its many fakes.  If Guile gets
within your throw range, and you're able to throw him, then do so.
Otherwise, block.  If Guile tries to stick his leg out or anything, and
he's within your throw range and ability, then he'll get thrown out of
his sweep.

All of these techniques can be applied to any character.  Their 'block stun'
times are the same, but their range varies a bit.  I find Guile to be
the toughest character to perform counter-throws with.  Zangief, of course,
is the easiest, followed by Blanka and Ken/Ryu.  Dhalsim, Vega, and others
have good range throws, but sometimes I have difficulty with their counter-
throws for some reason or another.  I have no trouble counter-throwing
with Sagat (He has pretty decent range sometimes, too!).

You counter-throw should be a very fast motion.  I can sometimes try a
counter-throw in between Ken/Ryu's short sweeps.  If I'm anticipating,
and I anticipate wrong, you'll see my character stand up for a brief
instant in between short sweeps and then go back into defensive crouch
in time to block the next sweep.  Ideally, that's how fast your counter-
throw motion should be.  After all, how long does it take to move the
joystick from defensive crouch to back defense and hit a button once?

I hope you have success learning how to counter-throw out there!  There's
great satisfaction in knowing that you performed a very difficult move
to best 'cheapness'.  For me, the novelty has worn off quite a bit, but
for a long time, it was quite a rush to counter-throw successfully!

A good counter-throw also looks good too.  You'll be able to throw your
opponent from a fairly great distance.  What my counters look like is
this:  One moment, Ryu is sitting innocently in defensive crouch, waiting
for an opponent to come into his throw range.  The next minute, the
opponent gets sucked up about an inch and gets hurled behind Ryu.  Blanka
can get some very long counter-throw ranges which amaze even me sometimes.

It takes some practice to get a good feel for it.  Every so often I lose
the feel because I play in a No-Throw arcade and lose my edge.  Oh well.

- Ming
--
Eu-Ming Lee (aka CyberGeek)                      [e-mail]
If you have nothing good to say, sit down, shut up, and post to USENET.