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- Xref: sparky alt.atheism:24744 talk.religion.misc:24916
- Path: sparky!uunet!olivea!charnel!rat!zeus!hertz.elee.calpoly.edu!jmunch
- From: jmunch@hertz.elee.calpoly.edu (John Munch)
- Newsgroups: alt.atheism,talk.religion.misc
- Subject: Removing "god" from morality. (was: Moral liberty)
- Message-ID: <1993Jan02.012209.179786@zeus.calpoly.edu>
- Date: 2 Jan 93 01:22:09 GMT
- Sender: jmunch@hertz.elee.calpoly.edu (John Munch)
- Organization: California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo
- Lines: 42
-
- In article <105796@bu.edu> wooyoung@acs.bu.edu (WooYoung Chung) writes:
- >
- >That is a very interesting point. If a "god" has power
- >over us (e.g. power to throw us into hell for eternity) does
- >this mean we must follow him (or her)? Or let say, we accepted
- >the notation that a "god" created us, does this obligate us to follow
- >the teaching of the god, no matter what.
- >
- >I do not know a lot of different religions; but, at least in the case of
- >catholicism, rewards and punishments are signicantly over-emphasized,
- >IMHO. I think the reasons behind people's behavior is as important
- >as the behavior itself.
- >
- >Whether one believes in god or not, he or she cannot deny the fact that
- >religion is a social institution that guides the morality of the
- >society. Perhaps the religion needs to grow with the society that it serves.
- >The society that we live in has been going through a very rapid changes
- >in recent years. Overall, there are more educated people than ever before.
- >There are growing incidences of failure of hierarchical structure that
- >focuses on obedience. (e.g. failure of communism or failure of many
- >large bureaucratic organizations)
- >
- >The religious organizations should learn and adopt to the
- >societal changes. They should try to balance Skinnerian approach
- >(inducing behavior with positive and negative feedbacks) with
- >more humanistic approach (e.g. educating the value of "just"
- >behavior)
- >
- Well why not drop religion completely, and still do what you are calling
- for? We can educate the value of "just" behavior without bringing
- superstition into it. Society and "just" behaviors are a benefit to
- every individual within the society. The problem is that children do not
- always inherently see the benefit to themselves. What is needed is two
- way communication between children and adults. Children are born with
- self interest. I don't think any values should be taught that don't in
- some way benefit the individual child. So all that is needed is to show
- the child how this behavior will benefit him or her. This may take a lot
- of explaining, visits to the library, or even consulting experts in some
- fields. I maintain that telling the truth is preferable to using religion
- as a basis for values.
-
- -John David Munch
-