home *** CD-ROM | disk | FTP | other *** search
- Path: sparky!uunet!utcsri!torn!spool.mu.edu!think.com!enterpoop.mit.edu!eru.mt.luth.se!lunic!sunic!news.funet.fi!ajk.tele.fi!funic!nntp.hut.fi!vipunen.hut.fi!mtf
- From: mtf@vipunen.hut.fi (Matti Franssila)
- Newsgroups: alt.atheism
- Subject: A little food for thought (was: iq<->religion: connection?)
- Message-ID: <mtf.725460483@vipunen.hut.fi>
- Date: 27 Dec 92 12:48:03 GMT
- References: <1992Dec25.163547.8805@prime.mdata.fi> <1992Dec26.203934.11931@nmsu.edu> <1992Dec26.223348.28953@prime.mdata.fi> <1992Dec27.001427.4359@nmsu.edu>
- Sender: usenet@nntp.hut.fi (Usenet pseudouser id)
- Distribution: world,public
- Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
- Lines: 69
- Nntp-Posting-Host: vipunen.hut.fi
-
- I haven't followed the discussion closely, but I'd like to present a new
- perspective to the thread. Mind you, I'm *not* christian and I'm not trying
- to convert anybody; I just find the idea that religion or religious ideas
- would automatically denote a lower intelligence quite stupid really.
-
- The following excerpts are from the book "Man and his symbols" by C.G.Jung
- (translation from finnish mine. Sorry for the clumsy language & possible
- mistakes):
-
- "... There is, however, a strong empirical reason why we should cultivate
- [?] thoughts that can never be proved. The reason is, that they are known
- to be profitable. Man has a need for general ideas and convictions, that
- give meaning to his life and help him to find his place in the universe.
- He can bear most unbelievable trials if he is convinced that they have
- some meaning. But he will break down if he, in addition to the trials, has
- to admit that his life is just a "story told by an idiot".
- The function of religious symbols is to give meaning to life. The pueblo-
- indians believe that they are sons of Father Sun, and this belief gives
- their life a dimension (and a goal), that reaches far beyond their limi-
- ted lives. It gives a lot of space for their personality to develop and
- grants them a full life as whole persons. Their fate is infinitely more
- satisfying than that of a human of our age, who knows that he is (and
- never will be anything but) a miserable being, whose life has no inner
- meaning.
- The feeling of a larger significance of ones life rises a person above
- just collecting money and consuming things. If he does not have this
- feeling, he is lost and miserable. ..."
-
- "Modern man does not realize, in how much his "rationalism" (which has
- destroyed his ability to react to numinose symbols and ideas) has placed
- him at the mercy of the psychic "underworld". He has freed himself from
- "superstition" (or so he thinks), but in that process he has in a dan-
- gerously large scale lost his spiritual values. His moral and spiritual
- tradition has fallen apart, and now he is paying the price of this in
- the confusion and division [this was written during the cold war --A.L]
- that has spread throghout the world. ..."
-
- "Nowadays we, for example, speak of "matter". We describe it's physical
- characteristics. We make laboratory experiments to display certain as-
- pects of it. But the word "matter" remains an image, an inhuman and
- purely intellectual concept, which has no psychic importance to us. How
- different was the previous image of matter - of the Great Mother - that
- could comprise and express the deep emotional significance of Mother
- Earth. Also, that which was conceived as spirit has now been equalled
- with intellect and thus has ceased to be the Father of Everything. ..."
-
- "At the same time as scientific knowledge has increased, our world has
- become more inhuman. Man feels separated from cosmos, because he no longer
- is in contact with nature and has lost the emotional "subconscious iden-
- tity" with natural phenomena. They have gradually lost their symbolic
- meaning. Thunder is no longer the voice of an angry god, and lightning
- is not his revenging arrow. No river is any longer inhabited by a spirit,
- a tree is no longer the lifeprinciple (?) of man, the snake is not an
- embodiment of wisdom, no mountain cave is a home of a great demon. No
- voices speak to man from stones or plants or animals, and he does not
- speak to them, believing that they could hear him. The deep unity bet-
- ween man and nature has disappeared, and with it the deep emotional
- energy given by this symbolic connection. ..."
-
- (C.G.Jung, "Man and His Symbols" 1964.)
-
- Comments?
-
-
- P.S I won't be able to read news for the next week or so...
-
- --
- Antti Lahelma GNOTHI SEAUTON
- mtf@saha.hut.fi TUNNE ITSESI "Jumalat ovat pakanoille suosiollisia"
-