NetNews Usenet Archive 1992 #27/NN_1992_27.iso/spool/misc/educatio/4408

Internet Message Format | 1992-11-19 | 10.3 KB

Xref: sparky misc.education:4408 alt.discrimination:4683 soc.culture.african.american:11334 soc.women:19977
Newsgroups: misc.education,alt.discrimination,soc.culture.african.american,soc.women
Path: sparky!uunet!stanford.edu!rock!taco!garfield.catt.ncsu.edu!jumper
From: [e-mail] (Michael Lanham)
Subject: Re: Racist/Sexist Role Models
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: North Carolina State University
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1992 01:26:48 GMT
Lines: 171

[e-mail] (Hubert J Montas) writes:

>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Brian K. Yoder) writes:
>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Patrick S. Golden) writes:
>>>I'm sorry you find this "racist". It is certainly not our
>>>intent to foster that attitude, but, rather, to present all
>>>students with role models for them to emulate.
>>
>>[..].  On the other hand, you can say "This
>>person is of your race/sex, and therefore you ought to try to emulate him."
>>that is a racist/sexist premise.

>         No It's not. This is part of normal human behavior. As we grow up, we
>look for role models that look like us to inspire our endeavors. Growing up as
>a black guy, you get to see a lot of white men that are good role models: God,
>Santa, cops on TV,... So, you try to imitate them. Next thing you know all the
>white kids are laughing at you, sneering... This guy can't be no Santa, he's
>black! ah ah ah ah ah! A black Santa, never seen that! How funny! This goes to
>show that if you're black, you can never emulate a white role model without
>being put down in extreme ways.

Always extreme ways or is this simply hyperbole?  Who said God is white?  I
never saw one word in the Bible that God is white, Jesus was white or any such
thing.  For all we know God could be an immense(tiny) being composed entirely
of energy with no physical manifestation at all.  I know I cannot emulate
that! :-)  As to Santa, I have seen black ones, hispanic ones and of course
white ones...never laughed at any of them.  No need to because I enjoyed the
desire to beleive in good will towards (wo)men.  I also see little dearth of
black heros...Magic, Morgan Freeman (awesome actor to whom I certainly look up
to...he says he tries to be the best man he can, and it does not always work),
Densel(sp) Washington, B.T.Washington (inventor of peanut butter mind you),
Harriet Tubman, Alex Haley, James Earl Jones (incredible actor whose voice I
love to sit back and listen to) all of these have been models in behavior and
outlook.

>The question then is why try to follow these
>models? Aren't there some positive black role models we could use instead so
>that people would stop taking us as excentric weirdos whenever we try to do
>good? Yes there are some, and yes it is important to bring them out and pass
>them around within us, using them to inspire us. Then only is it be guarant-
>eed that we can improve ourselves without being the subject of utter derision.

See above...it simply takes an honest survey of the land to see folks of all
ethnic backgrounds who can be role models.  I use a few women as role
models(not to sound condensending) because of who they were, what they stood
for, how they acted/act and what they're views are.  I have no desire to look
like my "heros" only to be worthy of the same respect I give them.

>     Unfortunately, the current cultural status of the western world is one
>in which race and sex make a lot of difference. This culture is centered
>around a patriarchal system with being white as a symbol of redemption.

Since when is being "white" equal to being redeemed?  Never have heard that
one.  Is it possible that this is simply your perception and not really
reflective of the whole country?

>The vast majority of role models in this culture are white males, although 50%
>of the people are women and more than 10% are black. Now, we have seen above
>that without appropriate role models, there is no possibility of emancipation
>and thence of freedom.As long as the role models represent white males, nobody
>thinks that anybody else is worth anything.The white male is, according to the
>models, intelligent, reasonable, strong,humanitarian, a kind of Christ really,
>aspiring to be God.

Man, I have no idea what sociology class you have been to.  Last time I heard
such constant bitching about whites this and whites that was in the class.  I
see enough people out there that I think of worthy of respect, can't you?  You
may not agree with him but Spike Lee has earned respect, the people I
mentioned earlier have to.  But even more importantly, my role model is my
dad.  Perhaps instead of blaming hollywood for a lack of heros we should look
closer to home!  Parents should be the first and foremost "heros" to their
kids.  Then respected friends, grandparents, etc.

>The woman on the other hand is submissive, a little dumb,
>passive, and full of love. The black is lazy, violent, poor and totally irrat-
>ional, except for very few exceptions. Now, these exceptional blacks are not
>blacks, they don't smell bad, they just happen to look black, but they are
>really white (no shit! this happened to both my girlfriend (Ethiopian) and I
>(Haitian), we got all sorts of people telling us we're not black! Now, what's
>so wrong with being black that we shouldn't be?).

I have heard the same sentiments and have heard it from both sides of the
tracks.  People that work hard and know it belittle those whom they think are
free-loaders.  Some of the worst ones doing it where I live are blacks telling
other blacks to get off their lazy asses.  Whites do it to whites but then
there is no connotation of racism.  The folks I have heard that say this
generally say something like, your black but you aren't a nigger.  Niggers are
the ones I hate.

>        So, if you want to talk about
>anti-racism, you have to look at what people are worth irrespective of their
>color.
>

Bingo...sames goes for choosing heros also!  I ahve and I am not the worst for
it :-).

[whole bunch of stuff about Jesus/Biblical characters were black, whites have
been the worst offenders of cruel crimes in human history, etc deleted for
brevity and bandwidth savings]

Revisionist history is a crock.  Yeah, the bibles I have seen are full of
white folks, but Egyptians are not typically as black as say, east coast
Africans.  So saying everyone in the bible was black is swinging the pendulm
away from one big lie towads another.  BTW, if humans did all orginate in
Africa (evidence I have read says so) and eventually gained at least three
broad classes of features (Caucasoid, Negroid, and Mongloid), what makes
poeple think the "original" humans were black?  That would imply that Africans
have faced zero environmental pressures to change, unlike Mongliod or
Caucasoid.  I find that simplistic at the least.

I also think it is revisionism to beleive all africans were at peace with each
other as were american indian tribes before the evil white man showed up.
Myans and Inca, according to legend, wiped out entire populations after
winning some battles, wives were taking from the loosing tribes by american
indians while all the men were slaughtered.  Depending on which lnguage you
chose, Sioux means snake or person.  If you weren't Sioux you weren't shit--to
borrow a phrase of today.  Shaka built his empire the same way the Brits and
Bismarck did, force and treaty. Those failing to abid by his rule were either
killed or enslaved.  The Inkatha and ANC are not at peace with each other even
if you could eliminate the SA police.  So try not to put any ethnic group on a
pedastal, we all have killed when it suited or purpose, been enslaved when
practical when we lost or simply been killed.  Human history that we know of
is at a macro-macro-scale, very repetitive.

>>           When your pride as been killed because of your race, when your
>worth is de facto nil because you are black, when the cultural equation is
>black=zero, I think that there are good reasons to use black role models
>for motivational purposes.

True for those areas where the culture is still that obviously anti-black.
For areas that are more integrated, trying to convince kids that evil whites
see them as worthless and they have to fight is creating a problem where it
did not exist.  I know that some places in the North are more segregated than
the SOuth and dittoe for the Midwest and Northwest.  One area's solution does
not fit another.

>>Rather than trying to teach them the (often untrue) lesson that "Lots of
>>women and minorities do X, therefore you should want to as well.", why not
>>teach the simpler and best of all true lesson that "Race and sex don't matter
>>in your ability or interest.

>This is exactly what they are teaching: It is not because you are black,
>or because you are a woman, that you are a stupid-worth-nothing person, look
>at this intelligent black man, look at this brilliant woman, they are shinning
>example that YOU can succeed, despite what the white male culture says.

Thats what I was taught.  I am also an extremely self-assertaive person who
has enough self-confidence to feel free and yet enough honesty to know better
than be egotistical.  I am who I am; I feel my parents and myself played the
largest roles in forming me, I choose how society's pressures effect me.  I
do not mindlessly shoot street lights out because movies show kids doing that.
I think it is deragatory for "pundits" to blame hollywood for individuals'
problems.

One thing I like about Clinton, he not only preaches lending a helping hand,
but also individual responsiblity.  If you screw up your life, your bust, if
it was beyond your control I will try and help if you want it.  That's the
kind of leadership in government I want to hear.  I was tired of hearing the
Republican power structure say, so sorry you want a better life, if you can't
buy it you wont get my help.

>    Ciao....
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
what does this word mean?


He who will not reason, is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool;
and he who dares not is a slave.      --- Sir William Drummond

Michael Lanham       [e-mail]   &  [e-mail]