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- From: bloc1469@ee.ee.uwm.edu (Gregory R. Block)
- Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.programmer
- Subject: Re: Attn Commodore: You are making a Big Mistake (Hardware Manual)
- Date: 23 Nov 1992 05:04:11 GMT
- Organization: Electrical Engineering Dept. University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
- Lines: 78
- Message-ID: <1epoobINN6hk@uwm.edu>
- References: <37190@cbmvax.commodore.com> <1992Nov22.152520.7304@imada.ou.dk>
- NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.89.2.33
-
- In article <1992Nov22.152520.7304@imada.ou.dk> breese@monet.imada.ou.dk (Bjoern Reese) writes:
- >Hail almighty Commodore! (Do you support dictatorship too?)
- >Just remember that Commodore is absolutely NOTHING without the public.
-
- "The Public" and "Demo-coders" are two different things.
-
- >So the first (and completely incomprehensive) version of the hardware
- >reference guide was you way of supporting "our way" ? Thanks for nothing.
- >Well, pick up an issue of this book, which was the only material from C=
- >that we had back then, and you'll find that C= also is guilty of this
- >problem.
-
- C= matured. They came out with later reference manuals, and then the
- 2.0 version of the Hardware Reference Manual with ECS.
-
- The democoders didn't.
-
- >Most people I know bought their Amiga because a) the games, b) the
- >demos, and c) the possibility of learning how to create one (game/demo)
- >themselves. It is my strong belief that Amiga only survived the initial
- >sale problems (I remember that sales were low i US, and that only the
- >sales in Europe - especially in Germany - rescued the Amiga) because
- >of kids buying a programmable game machine. If you wanted applications
- >back then, you bought a PC or a MAC. Now, has that "little or nothing"
- >to do with the sales?
-
- A) the games, will still exist. There are companies now that have
- pledged support for AGA. I do believe Psygnosis was one of them.
-
- Just so you know, using the OS does NOT mean you have to use
- intuition. Graphics.library can do lots of fast things.
-
- >BTW, do you actually KNOW any demo coders personally?
-
- Yes. And boy, are they pissed. But they're getting over it. They're
- not USED to using the OS for very much, and it's a big change.
-
- >How much MONEY do you pay for demos? If it's anything above the prize of
- >a disk, you've been fooled.
-
- Does democoding breed poor coding habits? You tell me. It's
- something C= has to consider.
-
- >Most applications are written in C, or another highlevel language, not
- >in assembly language, like almost all demos. I doubt that the problems
- >above erupt from the demo scene the way you want us to believe. I think
- >many people have their first programming experiences on the Amiga, and
- >beginners _do_ make mistakes, whether they do demos or applications.
- >Just don't blame demo coders for _all_ the mistakes done by application
- >programmers.
-
- Obviously not. But good demo coding does not good application coding
- make. Unfortunately, very often, they're two totally different
- things. Good demo coding makes good hardware-banging games. But
- there's no reason that you can't make games using the OS. Nobody has
- said they'd be as fast--they won't. There is something in there. But
- it's NOT as slow as some would claim.
-
- >Which leads me to another question. What is worst: a demo coder with
- >docs on how to bang the hardware properly, or a demo coder without
- >these docs?
-
- A demo coder without, of course, because he'll try to hack, slash, and
- bootleg his way into the chipset.
-
- You don't seem to understand. C= is making a hell of a statement by
- not releasing a HRM. They're not saying "you're on your own", they're
- saying "Don't do it any more."
-
- Big difference, dontcha think?
-
- Greg
-
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