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- Newsgroups: alt.satanism
- Path: sparky!uunet!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!titan.ucc.umass.edu!locklin
- From: locklin@titan.ucc.umass.edu (Misquamicus)
- Subject: Example of "Moral Absolute"
- Sender: nobody@ctr.columbia.edu
- Organization: Campus Crusade for Cthulhu
- Date: Sun, 15 Nov 1992 19:43:13 GMT
- Message-ID: <1992Nov15.194313.4954@sol.ctr.columbia.edu>
- X-Posted-From: titan.ucc.umass.edu
- NNTP-Posting-Host: sol.ctr.columbia.edu
- Lines: 83
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- Sine noone can come up with an adequate argument for moral absolutes, I will
- give it a try. I've always said I could make better arguments for christianity
- than fundies if I tried (not that these "moral absolutes" have anything to do
- with christianity.)
-
- First off, so as to avoid confusion, I'll make a definition. Moral Absolutes,
- for the purpose of this argument will be this: A moral absolute is a guideline
- for the proper action in a certain situation that will have the maximum
- benefit oneself in this situation. Most moral absolutes have to do with the
- "good of the many" as opposed to the good of the individual. The arguments I
- will present are based on this definition & are invalid without said
- definition.
-
- Game theory, pioneered by the great mathemetician John von Neumann, has much
- to say about maximising benefits for "game players". It is applicable to
- essentially any situation in which one has to make a choice between 2 or
- more options. The favorite (& arguably the simplest) example used to illustrate
- the principles of this mathematics is the prisoners dilemma. (something I am
- somewhat familiar with in R.L. actually; but I digress)
-
- The situation is this. You and an "accomplice" have been arrested for a crime.
- You are interrogated separately. If you refuse to testify against your
- accomplice AND he refuses to testify against you, you will both recieve 1
- year in jail. If you testify against him, and he does not testify against you,
- you will go free, and he will recieve 20 years (or something
- similar), and vice versa. If you both testify against each other, you will both
- recieve 5 years.
-
- Now, this is a GAME; I have reduced the degrees of freedom in this problem
- to two. These prisoners have no personalities & etc...
-
- Consider, if you testify the minimum total time served is 20 years. If you
- both do (remember, you have no info on what your buddy does) the total is 10
- years. If neither, the total is 2 years.
-
- Looking at the "big picture" we can see that the best outcome is for neither
- to squeal, BUT, looking at the small picture, THIS IS STILL THE BEST THING TO
- DO, EVEN THOUGH IT MAY SEEM LIKE YOU ARE CHEATING YOURSELF!
-
- Why?
-
- Consider the successive iterations of the "game". The object of the game is,
- of course, to minimise your total jailtime.
- Obviously, if you both keep your yaps shut, you will have the lowest possible
- scores, hence you will both be winners. If your partner tries to get less
- by turning you in, you will return the favor & you will both end up losing the
- game (but one may loose by a bit less than the other). If the instigator breaks
- his pattern of turning you in, the most advantageous thing to do would be to
- follow his example, so as to prevent his retributions. The result of this will
- always serve to minimise your score.
-
- SO.. being a "nice guy" and cooperating with your "accomplice" will always
- be the "moral" thing to do in this game. Try playing this game sometime...
- HOWEVER, you will note that non-cooperation with the police is considered to
- be the moral thing to do in this situation. This is considered immoral by
- society. This is to demonstrate the relativity of morality (i.e. the police
- are not playing the game).
-
- Apologies for any innacuracies in details, I do not have my copy of von
- Neumann's "Theory of Games in Economic Behavior" handy, I refer the curious
- to this treatise.
-
- Note that this is, of course, a rather simplistic example; few things in
- life have only 2 degrees of freedom (or is it 1; I forget my degrees;)
- It is applicable to more complex games, I used it on a rather simple form
- of 2-card poker popular in my hometown & won a bit of cash for myself.
- Unfortunately, my freinds don't have very much money & I can't seem to interest
- the local Amherst rubes in 2-card poker. Certain people use it "counting
- cards" in casinoes. Others use it in regular poker (I have a rather neat
- reference on this). Still others are trying to play the stock market with
- it, though IMHO, you need some serious computing power to do this...
-
- Another note, by my definition, LaVeyan Satanism is the most moral religion
- there is 8-O !
-
- If anyone can come up with a proof of "moral absolutes" in the Kantian sense,
- I'd like to bash, um read it....
-
- -Misquamicus
-
-