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- Organization: Graduate School of Industrial Administr., Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
- Path: sparky!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!news.sei.cmu.edu!fs7.ece.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!cs67+
- Newsgroups: alt.california
- Message-ID: <Qf3159C00UhW84fcUR@andrew.cmu.edu>
- Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1992 17:12:25 -0500
- From: Christopher M Stanley <cs67+@andrew.cmu.edu>
- Subject: Re: relocation
- In-Reply-To: <1992Nov18.113923.598@gdr.bath.ac.uk>
- References: <162@steiny.com> <1992Nov16.144700.4316@gdr.bath.ac.uk> <166@steiny.com>
- <1992Nov18.113923.598@gdr.bath.ac.uk>
- Lines: 77
-
- Well, so far this has been the best debate on this board since I've been
- paying attention (bout a year and a half). Chris, so far you have
- thrown out some very good points but I just gotta get my two cents in:
-
- >>>mascdb@gdr.bath.ac.uk (C D Burdorf) writes:
- >> Also, open trade policies allowed Japanese
- >>companies to dump products at below cost on the US market and
- >>drive the US competitors out of business. Then they raise
- >>prices once they've got control of the market. This has killed
- >>the memory chip industry, badly hurt the auto industry, and destroyed
- the steel industry.
- >
- >>>steiny@steiny.com (Don Steiny) writes:
- > That is a pretty strange thing to say. Historically open trade
- >has been beneficial. They way I see it is that US policies allowed me
- >to buy a decent car from people who were capable of making a decent car.
- >Are you suggesting that it would be better to subsidize incompetence
- >by increasing tariffs on foreign goods? During the Reagan years the
- >government did intercede because of dumping of RAM. They imposed a tariff
- >on DRAMS. Because of the tariff Japanese companies could get DRAMS cheaper
- >than US companies and thus could not compete in consumer electronics. We
- >shot ourselves in the foot big time.
-
- I would like to add some comments about the auto and steel industries.
-
- The auto and steel industries shot themselves in the foot - in a big
- way. Both industries became big lumbering giants. They thought no one
- could touch them. They also felt they had the right to tell their
- customers "what they were going to by". The Japanese came along and,
- using American methods and know how, asked people what they would buy
- then produced it. And lo and behold people actually prefer this kind of
- treatment to someone ramming a product down their throats and saying BUY
- THIS!!! Seems to me the Auto and steel industries killed themselves.
- It's called not keeping up with technology (aka sticking your head in
- the mud).
-
- The Japanese got most, if not all, of their management, production, and
- marketing theories form the U.S.. Theories that the steel and auto
- industries rejected as nonsense or unworkable. Then, when the Japanese
- beat them at their own game they cried foul (they must be cheating).
- No, these two industries got what they deserved. That's life on the
- corporate battlefield baby!
-
- The auto industry is much better off (or at least the customer is), and
- those steel makers that did figure it out, and changed the way they did
- business are the ones that are left. Seems to me that's what is known
- as competition.
-
-
- >Why haven't we had a big boom this time. 1) Resources are in
- >much shorter supply. 2) Germany and Japan were devastated after
- >the war and we pilaged a lot of their industrial equipment. Now
- >they are our main competitors. My point is that the escalation of
- >the arms race wasn't necessary to defeat the Soviet Union. I don't
- >believe for one minute that Star Wars caused Gorbachev to pursue
- >Perestroika.
-
- What is this crap about defeating the Soviet Union? I don't remember WE
- having anything to do with it. Was this not your quote?, "I strongly
- abhor the dehumanization of any group of people due to their race,
- religion, political or sexual preferences." If this is true why would
- you want to "defeat" the Soviet Union? Because they possess different
- political beliefs? I'm confused. Don't tell be you believe all that
- right wing crap about commies they've been force feeding us all these
- years?
-
- I was under the impression that that big ol' mean, nasty Soviet Union
- was partly created because of U.S. policy towards, so called, bad guys?
- So began the arms race. Besides that, didn't the people of The former
- Soviet Union do all the work themselves? I'm sick of hearing how we won
- the cold war when have never done anything but instigate trouble and
- keep the status quo. Who can we get to be the bad guys now? Sadam is
- still around? Hmmm, mabe if we sneak him some more arms....
-
- nuf said
-
- chris
-