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Message "thread" from CompuServe's PRACTICE forum discussing LINE NOISE. Several suggestions are given to reduce or eliminate line noise. Edited - Ed Girou -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Editor's Comments: There are three types of noise: 1. Impulse Noise. These are low-frequency voltage spikes caused by older telephone company equipment. It sounds like a pop or a "crackle". 2. Background Noise. Present in all phone circuits and at low levels is harmless. Has the sounds you hear when you have your radio or TV tuned between stations. 3. Interference. Caused by defective telephone company equipment, telephone wires between your house and the telephone company, wiring within your house, etc. Most of the suggestions in this thread deal with "interference" type line noise. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- #: 38288 S3/Messages (MES) 28-Jan-90 01:51:13 Sb: #Wierd Characters Fm: Sandy Jervey 76106,3364 To: ALL Hi! It's been awhile since I've had a chance to practice in here, but I'm still having problems, anyway. Like, for example, this line. I'll be typing along and everything is fine, and then all of a sudden either my keyboard or my computer of something else takes off on it's own and sticks in }}}}\\\\?? sorts of things and letters that come from absolutely nowwhere. Then, when{I {r(o~r{poopsi]Wi-see, it's doing it now. When I try to backspace them out, it only let's me go so far (i.e., to the last backslash) and then won't let me erase. Of the mess in the last line, all I tried to type was "oops". Ideas? Anyone seen this stuff before? It was working fine the first few times I used CIS. Only started up the past few days, and doesn't seem to have anything to do with time of day called. I'm using the same access numbers and cod (see, ther eit# goes again...) as I've always used. (in my vast experience of one or two weeks....). If anyone has seen this or had ideas, please let me know how to fix it. It's irritating here, but it's downright nasty(!) when I'm at a prompt and it happens and I can't get out of the prompt or CIS without rebooting... Thanks! Sandy #: 38312 S3/Messages (MES) 28-Jan-90 03:42:50 Sb: #38288-Wierd Characters Fm: Ed Girou [SYSOP] 76702,542 To: Sandy Jervey 76106,3364 Sandy, You are experiencing 'line noise'. Have you ever turned the volume control on a radio or TV and heard a scratching sound? Well your brain tries to separate it from the actual sound and it isn't a big deal. In computers that scratching sound is known as 'line noise' and the brains in computers aren't smart enough to separate noise from real data so you get wierd characters. Line noise can be induced at a number of places. A loose modem cable at your end. Bad or improper telephone wiring. A FAX or answering machine sharing the same telephone line. Cheap telephones (the $9.95 type). Problems at the telephone company. A defective modem at CompuServe or at your end. Weather. Sunspots. If you experience bad line noise, hang up and try again. If it continues, then you need to play investigator and try to locate and correct the source of the problem....it isn't fun. Recently I learned that changing the type of telephone jack from an RJ11 to an RJ41 will help reduce or eliminate line noise due to improper/old telephone wiring and problems caused by the telephone company. You need to contact your telephone company's business office for further details on the RJ41 jack -- I'm considering trying it on one of my lines. #: 38412 S3/Messages (MES) 28-Jan-90 23:06:36 Sb: #|Line Noise Fm: Sandy Jervey 76106,3364 To: Ed Girou {Thanks for responding re this line noise stuff....what a mess. I can't figure out what's changed between when I started using this modem, etc. a couple weeks ago and now. I haven't moved my equipment, moved the cables, nothing. C{ mQy cordless phone have an~rythi arghh - this is driving me nuts. Look at all this garbledy-gook. Could my cordless phone have anything to do with it? All that's changed in the weather ixDs it'Rs raining more here in Seattle. No big change, that. Sunspots? Are you serious? I'll believe anything, you know....It just keeps happening! I'll call the w3phone company tomorrow and see if they can help, but it seems odd it{just started happen!_ng all of a sudden. It's really, really annoying -- it took me four tries to log on here cuz it kept screwing up my password. But thanks fthe{i]identificationkO of the problem (sorr{ this is so y~hard to reo{! (that last thing is supposed to be "read." u { S{ndy {~{w3yM/exit #: 38414 S3/Messages (MES) 28-Jan-90 23:20:19 Sb: Line Noise Fm: Sandy Jervey 76106,3364 To: Ed Girou Testing one-two-three. I just went around and unplugged and replugged every phone in my house. I've actually made it this far into the message without a single character that I didn't screw up all by myself! Oh, please, oh, please, oh, please let it be fixed.... If there is a modem-god, please, please, please let it be fixeSo fa{, oh he{l. There it goes again. {Are there experts or something who come out and tell what's up? I hate this -- it makes it practically unusable! Thanks for your help! #: 38418 S3/Messages (MES) 28-Jan-90 23:25:59 Sb: #38412-#|Line Noise Fm: Donald A. Richman, AA6GA 71041,3643 To: Sandy Jervey 76106,3364 (X) It is best to have your modem disconnect all the phones in your house when in use , that might slove your problem or at least reduce it. -Don- #: 38421 S3/Messages (MES) 28-Jan-90 23:32:22 Sb: #38418-#|Line Noise Fm: Sandy Jervey 76106,3364 To: Donald A. Richman, AA6GA 71041,3643 (X) Have my modem disconnect all the phones in the house? Isn'tt what I do when I ALT-H and hang-up after I disconnect from compuserve? Is there something else I should do besides type "off" and then Alt-H after I get the No Carrier message? Thanks! Sandy #: 38426 S3/Messages (MES) 29-Jan-90 00:16:03 Sb: #38421-|Line Noise Fm: Donald A. Richman, AA6GA 71041,3643 To: Sandy Jervey 76106,3364 I am sorry to say it is not that easy. Most modems have a jack that says "line" and another that says "phone". The one that says "phone" should be wired to all the phones in your house. In other words the first thing that your phone line should be connected to is your modem as when your modem is on, all the phones will be disconnected by it, if you have all your phones wired to the modem "phone" jack. All you phones should be DEAD in the house when your modem is off hook. It may work even without you doing all that, but this is the best way. I have done that, and all my problems cleared up. I used to get disconnented a lot, as well as having line noise problems. Disconnecting all your phones will raise the carrier level sent as well as received. The more phones in your house, the more that this has to be done, as more phones drop more level. #: 38433 S3/Messages (MES) 29-Jan-90 05:14:25 Sb: #38412-|Line Noise Fm: Ed Girou [SYSOP] 76702,542 To: Sandy Jervey 76106,3364 (X) Sandy, Yup, you definitely have a case of Line Noise. Taking two aspirins, eating chicken soup and staying in bed won't help. But try disconnecting the cordless telephone for starters. Ed #: 38442 S3/Messages (MES) 29-Jan-90 10:12:26 Sb: #38414-Line Noise Fm: jim maloney 71521,3712 To: Sandy Jervey 76106,3364 (X) Sandy, Do you have Call Waiting on your phone. Usually, an incoming call will disconnect you from CIS, but it could cause line moise. Does the noise come at regular intervals, say the time of a ringing phone? Many phone systems will allow you to disable call waiting.. Just pre-fix a *70, before the phone no., as *70, 555 1212 This will only disable the call waiting for that call. Check with your phone company to see if this is the way to do it in your area. ++__JIM__++ #: 38644 S3/Messages (MES) 30-Jan-90 21:20:13 Sb: #38426-#|Line Noise Fm: Robert A. Suzor 76356,3130 To: Donald A. Richman, AA6GA 71041,3643 (X) There's a dandy little gadget in the DAK catalog (in the center insert I believe) that only costs about $4 or $5 that disconects other lines when the one it is installed on is being used. You know, in all the time I've been on CIS I've never had a problem with all that !"#$%&%&'()line noise that seems to be so prevalent...Until tonight!!! I had a heck of a time making a good connection. Assuming my modem, phone lines and any other obvious sources of interference are and have been OK, It seems to me that sun spots would not be out of the question. We have that problem quite often here in the NE area with cable TV systems, although it's usually in the summer. Since telephone signals and TV signals are all sent up to the same satellite systems...What if...? ---> RAS send #: 39014 S3/Reading Messages 03-Feb-90 17:00:30 Sb: #Line Noise Fm: Sandy Jervey 76106,3364 To: sysop (X) Hi! I wantedsay thanks for all the info and help re my line noise problems. I'm still going crazy on this end. Since last time I left a message, I've bought an R41J jack from the phone company and had it installed, bought an ISOTEL with a line noise suppressor and stuck it on, had the phone company run six separate line checks (two time son every linne, whether a real, honest-to-god telephone line of the "software" phone line set up to forward from my business line), and taken my modem and entire system to another phone line. Modem works fine. Something else is wrong. The phone company says my line is at 96% which is "perfect" -- nothing could possibly be coming from their end. I'vr been all over them, too, so I'm inclined to believe them. Whatever is causing my problems appears to be between CIS and the node. I can call other modems with no trouble. So.....how do I convince CIS of this? People in Feedback keep telling me to go to the phone company. And honestly, after two and half weeks of incessb----ing, I'm {pretty sure the phone company has actualone everything they say they have.....and that my lines are okay. More sugions? I've spent a fortune on here trying to get this figured out. I think it's the CIS end of things, but CIS doesn't. HELP! I don't want to have to log in at 30st to be abo read what I'm typing! Thanks! #: 39016 S3/Reading Messages 03-Feb-90 17:17:48 Sb: #39014-Line Noise Fm: Ed Girou [SYSOP] 76702,542 To: Sandy Jervey 76106,3364 (X) Sandy, Please post a message with the CIS phone number you are calling at at what baud rate you are having problems...I'll try it out for you. Sounds like you have really done everything possible on your end. Ed #: 39022 S3/Reading Messages 03-Feb-90 20:33:58 Sb: line noise Fm: Sandy Jervey 76106,3364 To: Ed Girou Hi. I've been calling 242-5767 (area code 2at 2400. I talked with someone at customer service today who said he thinks maybe trunk lines from Seattle are bad? Seems a couple other people are having trouble {oure, two. Oh, welAlso, no one in Columbus can call from duplicate the noise on their end. Must be something here somewhere???? A bswitch" or something with the 242-5767 node{ Thanks for your help! Still workin{ on it, but I can mycall everywhere else in the world (welll, U.S., anyway, without trouble). #: 39056 S17/Unrelated 04-Feb-90 04:40:52 Sb: #39022-line noise Fm: Ed Girou [SYSOP] 76702,542 To: Sandy Jervey 76106,3364 Sandy, I've been using the Seattle node at 206-242-5767 at 2400 baud for the past 45 minutes and everything has been crystal clear. When you call a CIS telephone number there are a number of modems attached to that number and they answer "in rotary" (when one modem is busy, then the next modem is used, etc.). It is very possible that there is one bad (or flaky) modem at the Seattle node and you have just bad luck and get the same modem over and over. Next time you connect to CompuServe, try this experiment: At the main menu, type PRO At the OK prompt, type STATUS You will get a report as follows: OK STATUS Job 28, system EHB, user [76702,542] T03SEC Program = FILMON C(PC) = 453774 Core = 4.5+42.0/89.5* SRU's used = 13 Connect time = 00:01 Now type GO TOP to return to the main menu. The T02SLR identifies which modem you are connected. Keep a log of the identifiers and when you get line noise. If you can isolate which modem, then report it to Customer Service giving them this information. (I am using T03SEC). #: 39100 S3/Reading Messages 04-Feb-90 16:11:49 Sb: #Line Noise Fm: Sandy Jervey 76106,3364 To: Ed Girou, SYSOP (X) Oh, please, oh, please, oh, please let this last.....I am finally(!!!) logged on at 2400, with no line noise for the whole connection time so far (at least a full two minutes!!!!!). Quick -- I need some wood so I can knock on it!!! This is great! Please, don't let this be just a quirk....please!! Okay, so I'm a little overexcited about this. But it's been soooooooooo long since I've been able to use out gremlins typing for me. Oops. Spoke too soon. Just got a little blit. Still -- it's a heck of a lot better than it has been! Thanks for the idea on keeping track of modems. I'll give that a shot next time I log on. I've been calling all over Seattle na and to the east coast, and no trouble with anyone except CIS. I also logged on through a Tacoma access number last night (rather than my Seattle number here) and it worked fine. Again, thanks for all your help. I'm going to get this thing figured out or kill something....like maybe the phone company? Talk to you later! Sandy #: 39115 S3/Reading Messages 04-Feb-90 17:59:38 Sb: #39100-Line Noise Fm: Betty Knight [SYSOP] 76703,4037 To: Sandy Jervey 76106,3364 Dear Sandy, I've been reading of the trouble you are having with the 2400 Baud Seattle number (242-5767) because I've had the same problem on that number since around Christmas time until just about a week ago. For what it's worth here was my problem. I bought a new Pratical Peripherals 2400SA-MNP Modem in August of 1989. I did not use the MNP Protocol and it worked perfectly until a few days afer Christmas. Then the noise was so terrible I couldn't use it and so mostly dialed the 1200 number. I kept all the records of what node I was on (like 06SED) and talked with cusomter support many times. Then finally I did something that I should have done when I first had the problem. I have a SUPRA Modem 2400 and tried it with the Seattle 2400 Baud number. Guess what? Immediately my noise problem went away - just like that! I called Practical Peripherals and they said it sounded like a bad modem and to return it for repair or replacement. Sandy, I'm not saying this is your problem but I was "sure" it was the CompuServe Seattle 2400 Baud number until I tried another Modem. Good Luck and take care. Sincerely, Betty Knight P.S. I'm in Bellevue, WA. #: 39116 S3/Reading Messages 04-Feb-90 18:09:36 Sb: line noise Fm: Earle Robinson 76004,1762 To: Sandy Jervey 76106,3364 I've often heard of problems up there in seattle myself, and with that node. In fact, the area has long been notorious for some problem phone lines. My first guess is that it is the line between your place and the node. However, it could be something between the seattle micronode and columbus. Modems are also curious beasts. Some are fine *usually*, but are disturbed by conditions which don't affect other modems. I've seen this myself, a few years back, in nyc. I know that it may seem like overkill, but I'd suggest getting an mnp modem. Aside from curing this problem, it will also give you a good 15% better throughput on non-compuserve modem calls. -er #: 39407 S3/Reading Messages 06-Feb-90 19:07:25 Sb: #39100-Line Noise Fm: Sandy Jervey 76106,3364 To: [F] Betty Knight 76703,4037 Hi! Thanks for keeping up with my hassles and letting me know "someone cares!" Everyone's been really great about making me feel like there's a actually a group of concerned folks out there! Actually, I've taken my modem to several other phones (different exchanges) and dialed CIS and it works fine. Also, dialing long distance works fine (dialing CIS through a Tacoma access number), though the phone company says that's cuz long distance signals are "boosted" regularly. Right now, I'm actually logged on and it's working 00 no noise whatsoever for a whole two or three minutes. I've been keeping a record of modems I connect with at CIS, too, and this is the first time I've hit this one. It seems to work! Is there anyway to "request" a particular modem? Probably not, huh. Could I put in my dial sequence that I'm trying to hit this modem, for example, so I'll get a busy if it's in use? This is only assuming it turns out that it's one or two modems that just don't hook up right with mine. Whatever. Thanks very much for your advice! I'm going to hold off a little longer and see if the phone company can do anything else.