Programmer 7500/MAX_PROGRAMMERS.iso/PROGRAMS/UTILS/LASER/LASRMESS.ZIP/LASRMESS.TXT

Text File | 1987-03-18 | 111.0 KB | 2,428 lines

             ARC'd Messages from CooperWorks free BBS
             ========================================
     Madison, Wi   300/1200/2400 BAUD   24hr   [phone]
     =======================================================
         Laser Printer/DeskTop Publishing Conference #4
         ==============================================
 Includes Messages #1 through #289 (Feb 1, 1987 - March 17, 1987)
__________________________________________________________________

Date: 02-01-87 (20:41)              Number: 1
  To: ALL                           Refer#: NONE
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: (N/A)
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

I'm interested in knowing how many people using this board use or have
access to HP Laserjet or Laserjet+ printers.  Please respond if you do.
 If there are enough of us, perhaps we could start a special conference
or something like that.  How about people who use other brands of laser
printers on PC's?



Date: 02-02-87 (05:05)              Number: 2
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: NONE
From: BOB FLORES                      Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

I use an HP LASERJET all the time.  Mostly form other packages like
Microsoft WORD, though.  You having problems?


Date: 02-02-87 (17:05)              Number: 4
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: NONE
From: JOHN SOPSICK                    Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: RECEIVER ONLY

I am the computer specialist for the Department of Surgery at the UW
Hospital.  We have 4 LaserJets and one Plus.  I would be interested in
such a conference.

One piece of news that may interest you ... HP has just finished work on
the HP LaserJet II.  It will be announced officially next month.  It is
supposed to be smaller, more powerful, and cheaper!  See Feb. 3 issue of
PC Week for details.

Date: 02-02-87 (23:05)              Number: 5
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: NONE
From: KENN FLEE                       Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

I'm using the QuadLaser which emulates the HP Laserjet+ among others...
-Kenn-

Date: 02-03-87 (02:53)              Number: 7
  To: JOHN SOPSICK                  Refer#: NONE
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

We have 3 Laserjet+'s (Laserjets+ ?).  I read the article in PC Week
today about the Laserjet II - sounds exciting.  I had been thinking of
ordering one of the new upgrade kits to upgrade one of our +'s to 2 meg
with the DDL Page Desc language but sounds like it may be almost as
cheap to get one of the new Laserjets.  Also, even tho the upgrade kit
has supposedly been available for a couple of months now, I haven't read
or heard of any of them being installed.
Do you do any font downloading or high res graphics on your Laserjets?

Date: 02-03-87 (03:03)              Number: 8
  To: KENN FLEE                     Refer#: NONE
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

How do you like your QuadLaser (or do I remember that you sell them)?
What does Laserjet+ emulation mean? Does that mean you can download the
HP fonts w/o change or that it uses the same ESC codes or that you can
plug in the HP font cartridges.  We have several brands of PC's that run
software the same but it seems like mixing brands of laser printers in
the same shop would cause confusion.
Did I hear that the Quadlaser prints blacker blacks than the Laserjet?

Date: 02-04-87 (02:02)              Number: 10
  To: GREG JACKSON                  Refer#: NONE
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Greg & everyone else interested in HP Laserjets, other PC laser
printers, desktop publishing, graphics on laser printers & other related
topics...there seems to be enough interest in the subject to start a
conference (and besides Chuck talked me into it) so hopefully we can get
that going soon and there will be a FLASH when it's ready.  Meanwhile
please send me a message if you have any suggestions on any of the above
subjects.

Date: 02-04-87 (02:22)              Number: 11
  To: GREG JACKSON                  Refer#: NONE
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

On specific questions you asked, I'm pretty expert on HP Laserjets and
Laserjet+.  Have followed literature on others but have not used them so
any answers will be to the best of my knowledge but others may have
better knowledge about non-HP laser printers.
The QMS KISS is at the low end of laser printers so I'm pretty sure it
doesn't have Post Script or any other printer description language (as
the HP Laserjets don't either so far...yea I know DDS has been announced
as an upgrade but I haven't read that anyone actually has installed the
upgrade and it hasn't been reviewed yet).
Post Script isn't essential for most applications until you get to
really fancy formatting (desk top publishing sorts of applications) and
if you're interested in that level of sophisticated use, you might be
better off with something more powerful than KISS to begin with.
Post Script is the best known printer description language because the
APPLE Laser uses it and Apple Laser users think it's the greatest.
Hewlet Packard announced that they would use DDL (I hope I have that
right) on their future laser printers but I don't think any existing
laser printer uses DDL.
Xerox has their own printer description language whose name escapes me
at the moment.
And to further complicate the issue, IBM will probably come out with a
laser printer this year that may use one of these 3 but more likely will
have their own that may or may not be better than any of these.
I'm partial to HP's because I've used them and because virtually all PC
software supports them.  You might want to wait a month or two to
purchase one tho because HP is rumored to be about to announce the
LASERJET II - half the size, more memory, holds 2 font cartridges at
once, more memory, at  $2500 !

Date: 02-04-87 (02:24)              Number: 12
  To: GREG JACKSON                  Refer#: NONE
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

I don't know what an LED printer is or what that has to do with cutting
the price of laser printers.  Can you elaborate?

Date: 02-04-87 (08:49)              Number: 13
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: NONE
From: CARTER LUSHER                   Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Yes to 'use it yourself'.

We started using it for graphics, but then we installed a Macintosh &
LaserWriter combo for desktop publishing and the HP then languished in
the 'high speed/high quality' category for a while.  NOW, it is
impossible to get on the Mac so that we are now looking into revving up
the HP again.

Tried Fancy Fonts on the HP.  Does excellent work, however ... It is
slower than syrup on a cold day.  Plus the fact that it is typesetting
codes rather than WYSIWYG desktop publishing makes it less attractive to
use.

               ::cjl::

Date: 02-04-87 (09:38)              Number: 15
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: NONE
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Sorry to intrude in your HPLJ thread, but I saw a mention of Fancy Font.
 If you like the results, and if you use MSWORD, then the same folks
(Softcraft) have a fantastic package called Laserfonts which does it
all: download specific character sets to the HPLJ+ AND create customized
.PRD files that reflect exactly what's inside the printer so that you
can use Word's built-in formatting capabilities with the downloaded
fonts.....Excellent package in my opinion........Dan

Date: 02-04-87 (09:43)              Number: 16
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: NONE
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Sure, sounds good.  We have a few of the old unimproved HPLJ and are
getting a LJ+ soon.  I've had some minimal experience with the LJ+ on a
consulting job I did a while back and these little beasts are exciting.
 Count me in....we do both graphics and text, with no firm plans for
publishing yet, but who knows.....dan

Date: 02-04-87 (10:59)              Number: 17
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: NONE
From: JOHN SOPSICK                    Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: RECEIVER ONLY

We have not done any font downloading.  Is this easy to do?  Are there
any public domain fonts to be downloaded?

I have been experimenting with high-res graphics.  I am currently using
Microsoft chart to produce slides of bar charts, ect.  This is very
straight-forward and the results have been good.

One question worth discussing about LaserJets is ... which if any public
domain utilities for LJ are people using?  Are they any good?

Date: 02-05-87 (00:19)              Number: 18
  To: JOHN SOPSICK                  Refer#: NONE
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

John,
regarding downloading of fonts to HP, I presume you know that you must
have a Laserjet+ to download.  Downloading can be done with a DOS
command COPY /B however it's a little tricky figuring out what else to
send with the font to activate it and give it a number.  Also you need a
font to download.  The only public domain downloadable font that I'm
aware of is a very handy one that allows the Laserjet+ to print IBM
screen graphics with a SHIFT-PRTSCREEN.  That's on this board with a
name like LASERJET.ARC or HP*.ARC

Date: 02-05-87 (05:17)              Number: 19
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: NONE
From: BOB FLORES                      Read: NO
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Well, I don't do much fancy with it.  Have never tried FANCY FONT with
it but keep meaning to.  We are looking forward to using it with ALDUS
PageMaker for the PC.  But we have to buy additional RAM for it first.

I hadn't heard about a new one coming out.  Any details?

Date: 02-05-87 (05:22)              Number: 20
  To: CARTER LUSHER                 Refer#: NONE
From: BOB FLORES                      Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

More expensive, yes.  But the 3812 will draw circles around anything
else on the market today.  It's too bad, tho, that IBM uses their own
protocol for the thing.  Not much can talk to it.

Date: 02-05-87 (22:37)              Number: 22
  To: DAN MOORE                     Refer#: NONE
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Thanks for your interest in a Laser printer conference Dan.  We are
proceeding with setting it up.  We've been using the Laserjet+ for over
a year now and are very pleased with it.  Are you printing mostly text
on your Laserjets or do you do graphics as well?

Date: 02-05-87 (22:41)              Number: 23
  To: DAN MOORE                     Refer#: NONE
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

I've heard that FancyWord is a nice product for those using MSWORD.  We
use Volkswriter 3 and OfficeWriter and a little Word Perfect so we
haven't tried FancyWord.  We do use FancyFont & Laserfonts from
SoftCraft and they produce nice results at a reasonable price.
Disadvantages are ease of use, font modification and print speed.

Date: 02-05-87 (22:47)              Number: 24
  To: CARTER LUSHER                 Refer#: NONE
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

I certainly agree with your comments on Fancy Font.  Printing speeds up
considerably with LaserFonts from SoftCraft but you need a LJ+ and ease
of use is not its strong suit.  Also still no WYSIWYG!
I keep thinking that one of these years the larger installed base of
PC's will result in computer graphics developments that outdo the MAC
but I'm still waiting.

Date: 02-06-87 (09:55)              Number: 27
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: NONE
From: KENN FLEE                       Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

I like my Quad very much.  Laserjet emulation means you can download
fonts without change and use the same ESC codes.  No go on plugging in
font cartridges -- but with 2 meg, there is room for 60 on-line fonts.
Because the Quad uses the Richo engine, the blacks are much blacker (in
fact, black, period) as opposed Canon kinda dark grey.  More
importantly, the engine is rated for more copies and there is no service
charge upscaling for "excess" copies in one month.   I admit,
reluctantly, that I am a dealer for quad... but that only slightly
colors my opinion.  I really do like the darn thing.  -Kenn-

Date: 02-06-87 (13:28)              Number: 29
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: NONE
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

What do you think this will do to the price of the existing HP LJ line
and other competitive products?

Date: 02-06-87 (13:30)              Number: 30
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: NONE
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Text so far, with a couple minor grafix applications.  We're getting a
HPLJ+ soon and we'll look at doing more exciting things with it.  I have
limited experience with the LJ+....I set one up on a consulting job a
few months back and installed Softcraft's Laserfonts and Microsoft Word,
a dynamite combination.......Dan

Date: 02-06-87 (13:31)              Number: 31
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: NONE
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Laserfont was really made with MS Word in mind; it is hard to beat that
combinaon since you have access to all fonts/sizes directly from Word as
normal formatting options.....Dan

Date: 02-06-87 (19:42)              Number: 33
  To: DAN MOORE                     Refer#: NONE
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Would you like some suggestions about some exciting commercial graphics
software for the Laserjet+?

Date: 02-06-87 (19:46)              Number: 34
  To: DAN MOORE                     Refer#: NONE
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

IF it happens as noted in PC Week, sound like the bottom prices might
not change much but that you could get a lot more capability for under
$3000 than at present.  I think the LASERJET II would replace the + but
the basic Laserjet for primary text applications might continue to be
carried at a reduced price ($1500 mail order or so maybe)

Date: 02-06-87 (19:48)              Number: 35
  To: KENN FLEE                     Refer#: NONE
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Yes if it had come out before the HP, it might have taken over the
market but now HP has it sewed up for the present because of its
installed base.

Date: 02-07-87 (01:47)              Number: 36
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: NONE
From: KENN FLEE                       Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Apparently Quad is going after the "high-end" desk top publishing
market.  They have announced a PostScript controller board and also are
now including full "typesetters" fonts in Helvetica and TimesRoman in 72
point down to 6 point with the 2 meg model.  Also announced is a desktop
publishing package bundled with SCLaserPlus.  As long as the cheaper 1.5
meg versions are available, the Quad is still a pretty good buy at a
"street price" of around $3,000.  The 2 meg is listed at $4500, street
price lower.  -Kenn-

Date: 02-07-87 (02:14)              Number: 37
  To: KENN FLEE                     Refer#: NONE
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

The QUAD Laser upgrades you mentioned sound very nice!  I've never used
POSTSCRIPT..have you?

Date: 02-07-87 (02:33)              Number: 38
  To: ALL                           Refer#: NONE
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: (N/A)
Subj: DESKTOP PUBLISHING            Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Did you read the extensive articles on desktop publishing in the Feb 10
issue of PC Mag?They reviewed 6 packages and concluded that Ventura
Publisher is the best and that PageMaker is second. I haven't used any
desktop publisher but the idea sounds attractive.  However they sound
difficult to learn (as well as expensive).  On the PC, has anyone used
any of these packages & what do you think of them?>

Date: 02-07-87 (15:56)              Number: 39
  To: ALL                           Refer#: NONE
From: SYSOP                           Read: (N/A)
Subj: LASERS/DESKTOP PUBLISHING     Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

  Yes! Yes! Yes!
  CONFERENCE 4 ON LASER PRINTERS & DESKTOP PUBLISHING IS NOW OPEN TO
ALL!!!
  Join Conference 4 to continue the thread on HP Lasers.
  Sometime tomorrow (Sunday 2/8/87) I will move ALL related messages
from the Main Menu Area to that Conference (at present the first 26 have
been moved).
  Marty Shannon is going to Host this Conference, and judging from the
response from all he deserves a round of applause for his initiative and
ideas.                                                 ...CC

Date: 02-07-87 (22:10)              Number: 40
  To: DAN MOORE                     Refer#: NONE
From: CHUCK COOPER                    Read: YES
Subj: MOVING MESSAGES               Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

  For you, sure I'd be happy to move all of your laser messages here.
  [Well, o.k., I actually added the Conf listing before everyone
was registered in this conference, so i had to move a lot of messages
here!]
  P.S.  Did you check out DOOR #2 in Conference 3?
  It was put there after your mention of it, so you had better add to
the stories!


Date: 02-08-87 (11:44)              Number: 45
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: 33
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Sure, so would probably everybody else.  Incidentally, I have recently
been involved in the beta testing of a 'universal' graphics program that
reads almost all file formats (READMAC, BSAVED, MSPAINT (PC Paintbrush),
DGI etc...), can combine them etc... and has a Laserjet output option.
Looks quite interesting and some of those graphics look excellent on the
unimproved HPLJ...But then, I'm sworn to secrecy since I don't know
whether the author will go shareware, commercial, or give it away....Dan

Date: 02-08-87 (11:48)              Number: 46
  To: CHUCK COOPER                  Refer#: 40
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: NO
Subj: MOVING MESSAGES               Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

That's a gotcha if I ever saw one.....here I am recommending something
assuming nobody would listen and 24 hours later it's up and ready for me
to do something with iy.....OK, I'll play adventure......Dan

Date: 02-08-87 (11:50)              Number: 47
  To: ALL                           Refer#: NONE
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: (N/A)
Subj: LASER PRINTING SPEED          Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Is the speed of the current machines limited by the interface speed (ie,
serial vs. parallel), the speed of the PC, the speed of the printer, or
all three?  Which has the most influence, especially in graphics mode?

Date: 02-08-87 (11:51)              Number: 48
  To: ALL                           Refer#: NONE
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: (N/A)
Subj: TONER CARTRIDGES              Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Has anyone used brand X re-filled toner cartridges?  Are there any good
and is it worth risking voiding the warranty?  Also, are there colored
toners available for the Laserjet line?

Date: 02-08-87 (18:10)              Number: 50
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: 12
From: GREG JACKSON                    Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

I have heard that LED printers are in the works which will cut the price
of electrostatic computer printing by a factor of 2 or more.  The laser
printers are a lot like the Xerox machines where the light on a drum
allows it to pick up ink (toner) and transfer it onto paper.  In a laser
printer the laser zips over the drum and makes the pattern that would be
done by the big flash in a Xerox machine.  In an LED printer the laser
is replaced by a big array of LED lights.  I think the pattern is
carried to the drum on a bunch of fiber optics.  If what I heard is
correct these printers will be able to match the 300 dots per inch at a
much lower price.  I doubt they will be able to do this a 12 pages a
minute but if they work at all and show up for $500-$800 it will be a
keen new toy to play with.

Date: 02-08-87 (18:16)              Number: 52
  To: ALL                           Refer#: NONE
From: GREG JACKSON                    Read: (N/A)
Subj: POSTSCRIPT                    Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Does the world begin and end with HP?  I need a printer that has
Postscript.  QMS makes a KISS printer with postscript but they bumped
the price from $1998 to $4560 when they added postscript.  Am I forced
to get an Apple?  What else is out there?

Date: 02-09-87 (01:33)              Number: 58
  To: DAN MOORE                     Refer#: 47
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: LASER PRINTING SPEED          Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

We originally got a HP Laerjet about 2 years ago (I think) - right after
they first came out.  The graphics print speed was awful! About 10
minutes or more per page.  The original Laserjet had only a serial port
option.  When we converted that Laserjet to a + about a year later, the
difference in print speed was dramatic (like 1-2 minutes compared to 10)
The conversion to the + included conversion to a parallel port also.
The speedof the PC (and for some software a math coprocessor) has the
second biggest impact after the parallel port.
The speed of the Laserjet (when printing graphics) is only a very minor
factor in speed of printing an original page.  However, if you specify
10 copies, all subsequent pages after the first, print at the rate of 8
pages a minute!

Date: 02-09-87 (01:41)              Number: 59
  To: DAN MOORE                     Refer#: 48
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: TONER CARTRIDGES              Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

I've never heard of any non-HP brand cartridges - I've wondered why
other firms weren't jumping on the bad wagon - must be a big markup
there!
HP now sells brown cartridges in addition to black - that's the only
ther color I've heard of - Ayone know why other colors aren't offered?It
seems like red, green, blue would produce neat looking pages and, with
multiple passes thru the printer, you could get a multiple color page.

Date: 02-09-87 (01:48)              Number: 61
  To: GREG JACKSON                  Refer#: 50
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

You refreshed my memory - I did read about the LED alternative to lasers
for hi res printing.  I don't know when/if will make it to the
marketplace in a printer.  Let us know if you hear anything more about
it.

Date: 02-09-87 (01:59)              Number: 64
  To: CARTER LUSHER                 Refer#: 57
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: DESKTOP PUBLISHING            Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

How about DTP as short hand for Desk Top Publishing?

Date: 02-09-87 (22:23)              Number: 69
  To: ALL                           Refer#: NONE
From: BOB CRAIG                       Read: (N/A)
Subj: CORDATA LP-300                Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

  Does anyone out there have, or know someone else who has a Cordata
LP-300 laser printer.  I have had some difficulty in using it from
within a dBASE III+ command file and would gladly exchange any
information I have with anyone else.

                                       Thanks,
                                         BAC

Date: 02-09-87 (22:48)              Number: 70
  To: CARTER LUSHER                 Refer#: 65
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: TONER CARTRIDGES              Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

I guess that makes sense when you think about it.  The Laserjet and the
Apple Laser both have the same Canon engine.  I understand the Wang
Laser IS a Laserjet with a different cover and $2000 added onto the
price.

Date: 02-10-87 (16:09)              Number: 74
  To: GREG JACKSON                  Refer#: 50
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Isn't the IBM 3812 Pageprinter an LED array machine?  It is supposed to
go about 12 ppm, but then it costs twice as much as whatever's in second
place....Dan

Date: 02-10-87 (16:14)              Number: 76
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: 58
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: LASER PRINTING SPEED          Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

In view of the fairly high cost of upgrading a laserjet to a laserjet+,
would you recommend it rather than buying a brand new printer altogether
which has the capabilities to begin with (AST, Quadlaser, Kiss
etc...)....Dan

Date: 02-10-87 (16:16)              Number: 77
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: 59
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: TONER CARTRIDGES              Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Yes, the reason I wondered about the color was the fact that Canon sells
color toner cartridges for their desktop copiers which use the same
basic image engine as the laserjet.....Dan

Date: 02-11-87 (02:13)              Number: 79
  To: DAN MOORE                     Refer#: 76
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: LASER PRINTING SPEED          Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

I have to admit that I'm prejudiced in favor of HP, since we have
several of those, and I'm not anxious to bring something else that may
not be compatable.  Also, just about ALL software now support Laserjet
and that's important.  I had COMMODORE 64 before there was any software
for it, EGA before anyone supported it, 3270-PC and which still has no
support, and Laserjet before there was much software support.  I'm now
enjoying the luxury of EVERYONE supporting Laserjet and EGA !
So if you decide to go with AST or Quad Laser, make sure to ask sales
reps which software supports them!
Re cost, agree that upgrades are expensive.  HP rips off customers for
upgrades worse than LOTUS.  If you are not in a big hurry you might want
to wait a couple of months for possible announcement from HP (but no
guarantee that there will be one)

Date: 02-11-87 (02:15)              Number: 80
  To: DAN MOORE                     Refer#: 77
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: TONER CARTRIDGES              Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

I spoke to HP about color cartridges.  They say it's under development
but have no date of availability yet.  I'm not sure why colored ink
powder should be more difficult to put in a cartridge than black.  Does
anyone know anything about colored ink powder in laser printers?

Date: 02-11-87 (04:54)              Number: 81
  To: DAN MOORE                     Refer#: 74
From: BOB FLORES                      Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Sorry to but in....  The 3812 is indeed an LED array machine.  I use one
on occasion, and like it a lot.  But there's not a whole lot out there
that supports it.  Sigh.

Date: 02-11-87 (06:32)              Number: 82
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: 79
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: LASER PRINTING SPEED          Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

So YOU're one of the six people with a 3270 PC.....I got a sneaky
suspicion that this box will be an antique before its time...We also use
the HP lasers pretty much for the same reasons you do.  It has the
widest distribution and service, if ever needed, is no problem.  Because
it was first, it has the largest installed user base and, as you said,
it is as much a standard in the laser crowd as EPSON is for dot matrix
devices......Dan

Date: 02-11-87 (06:34)              Number: 83
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: 80
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: TONER CARTRIDGES              Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

As I said in an earlier message, the image generation technology used in
the Canon engine is practically identical to the one they use in their
copiers, which have multiple color toners available.  I don't think
there is any technical problem doing it.  Maybe there just wasn't any
demand for it.....

Date: 02-11-87 (06:46)              Number: 85
  To: ALL                           Refer#: NONE
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: (N/A)
Subj: DOWNLOADABLE FONTS            Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

I am familiar with Softcraft's Laserfonts package.   Are there any other
downloadable font packages for the HPLJ+ out there?  Laserfonts works
well and has a facility to customize Microsoft Word printer description
files to give easy access to the downloaded fonts.....any other products
available with similar features?

Date: 02-11-87 (11:33)              Number: 86
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: 37
From: KENN FLEE                       Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Yes... I've spent a lot of time producing flyers, catalogs and such on a
Mac + LaserWriter.  Like the printer, hate the mac!   -Kenn-

Date: 02-11-87 (12:39)              Number: 88
  To: DAN MOORE                     Refer#: 74
From: CARTER LUSHER                   Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

RE PagePrinter.

Yes, it is a LED array machine (I've got one in my office temporarily
for a project).  It has an absurb price on it, something like $8 grand
or more.

The speed claims can not be duplicated.  It is barely faster than the HP
to matter what you do: WP, dBASE or COPY TO PRN.

The quality of the print is very nice, tho.

Needless to say there are not many software applications that
specifically support this machine, the 3812 being relatively new.

It has two paper bins (500 & 200 sheets each, approx).

       ::cjl::

Date: 02-11-87 (18:49)              Number: 91
  To: DAN MOORE                     Refer#: 83
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: TONER CARTRIDGES              Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

The more I think about using various colors of single color laserjet
cartridges in the Laserjet, if that ever becomes available, the more use
I can think of for it.  We often compose a graphics page or document
cover by feeding a laser printed sheet back thru the LJ to print another
image from another software product.  With the print positioning always
being very precise, why not print several colors on the same page!

Date: 02-11-87 (22:09)              Number: 94
  To: KENN FLEE                     Refer#: 86
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

You're the first MAC user I've heard say that he didn't love his MAC!
s

Date: 02-11-87 (22:34)              Number: 96
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: 64
From: GREG JACKSON                    Read: YES
Subj: DESKTOP PUBLISHING            Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

DTP is great for Desk Top Publishing but that's not the problem.  I wish
someone would tell me how to pronounce WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You
Get).  There has to be a better way to communicate this simple idea.

Date: 02-11-87 (22:50)              Number: 97
  To: ALL                           Refer#: NONE
From: GREG JACKSON                    Read: (N/A)
Subj: IBM PATTERNS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

IBM is truly a strange beast.  Someone noted that they didn't follow any
standard with their laser printer because they try to lead rather than
follow.  I'm not sure that this is really true.  They are just generally
screwed up all around.  In trying to design compatable products they
can't even follow their own lead.  If you want an EGA that will run all
CGA stuff then you have to buy a Chips & Technology board, not an IBM.
If you want a laptop that runs LOTUS then you have to buy anything BUT
the clamshell.  For a number of reasons it appears that IBM is not in
control of their own technology.  I sometimes read these columns that
try to predict what IBM will do next.  The columns that depend on leaks
and rumors work pretty well.  The ones that try to predict what they
will do next by market analysis are never dependable.  It seems that if
you try to predict what they will do next by analizing the situation and
deciding what is the intelligent thing to do is, that is rarely what IBM
does.

I shouldn't get too down on IBM.  If they offer me a job I'd take it
right away,  I can't say that about DEC.  It's like the guy down the
street says....."If I'd only bought a million dollars of IBM in 65' I'd
be a rich man today."

Date: 02-12-87 (01:53)              Number: 98
  To: ALL                           Refer#: NONE
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: (N/A)
Subj: NEW LASERJET PRINTERS         Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

If you are interested in keeping up with the latest developments with
Hewlett Packard Laserjets, check out the page 1 story in the latest PC
WEEK (Feb 10, 1987).
HP will announce a new line of Laserjets on March 2 and will slash the
prices of the the original Laserjets by up to 25% and will eventually
drop them.  The high-end new Laserjet 2000 will print at 20 pages per
minute and retail for $19,995.
More in the price range of most of us will be the new Laserjet+ (called
the Laserjet Series II that will sell for $2,495.  Sounds great BUT--
in order to use the DDL printer description language (HP version of
PostScript) you have to purchase the HP Publisher Kit for an additional
$2,495.  And to get full page 300X300 graphics, you have to buy an
additional 2 meg of memory for $1000, bringing the final price to a mere
$5,910!!
The basic $2,495 Laserjet II will have 512K of memory, expandable to 4.5
meg, 3 expansion slots for memory boards & the DDL, will weigh only 32
lbs and have a smaller footprint.
The $19,995 Laserjet 2000 will print on both sides of page, will hold 3
cartridge fonts simultaneously, and will come standard with 34 fonts.
Anyone have any more info or comments on this?


Date: 02-12-87 (02:00)              Number: 100
  To: GREG JACKSON                  Refer#: 96
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: DESKTOP PUBLISHING            Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

WYSIWYG is pronounceable by the DTP (hope you caught our new acronym)
gurus as I learned last fall at a DTP conference in Chicago.  Try
pronouncing it as Wisiwig (and you have to say it very fast so you don't
sound like hick).

Date: 02-12-87 (02:06)              Number: 101
  To: GREG JACKSON                  Refer#: 95
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: DESKTOP PUBLISHING            Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Re: Ventura vs. PageMaker, the latest PC WEEK article on HP Laserjets
also mentioned that HP has aligned themselves with Aldus PageMaker and
with MS Windows so that seems like it will help PageMaker corner a
sizeable share of the DTP market.
HP will also introduce a flat bed 300-dpi image scanner for $1,995.

Date: 02-12-87 (02:14)              Number: 102
  To: DAN MOORE                     Refer#: 85
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: DOWNLOADABLE FONTS            Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Dan - I'm not sure if you are asking about other fonts to download or
the download software.  There are lots of both.
For download software, the HP PCLPAK software comes with their
downloadable fonts (it's not real friendly but it works).  With some of
their non-advertised font packages, ATL1M3
ATE0 S7=60 S11=55 V1 X1 S0=0

Date: 02-12-87 (02:23)              Number: 103
  To: DAN MOORE                     Refer#: NONE
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: CONTINUING MSG 102            Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

With some of their downloadable font packages, HP supplies a download
routine in a BAT file using COPY /B for the actual downloading.  Once we
learned how to use COPY /B for downloading fonts, we can download much
faster than LASERFONTS.
Regarding availability of fonts to download, they're all over the place.
Lots of options from HP although sometime hard to find any one person at
HP who knows all the options.  Besides Softcraft, another is VPS - the
as well.

Date: 02-12-87 (09:35)              Number: 108
  To: ALL                           Refer#: NONE
From: MIKE FARNHAM                    Read: (N/A)
Subj: QUADLASR                      Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

To whom it may concern.

We have A QUADRAM LASER printer where I now work.  This Laser Printer is
a whole new ballgame compared to the HP LaserJet at my old job.

Here is some of the featurese.

     512K RAM       {Currently I have this much on the AT I use!}
     EPSON, QUME, HP LaserJet  EMULATION
     {Currently does not support HP LaserJet +}
     Toner Cartridges are rated at 6,000 pages
     OPC Belt         is  rated at 10,000 pages.

We are currently using it with PC-WRITE v. 2.07 and LOTUS 1-2-3 v 2.01
We have been able to use the PrintGraph Program, but have not yet
successfully printed a SPREADSHEET {strange?}

Any questions or comments are welcomed.

Thanks,
Mike Farnham

Date: 02-12-87 (09:37)              Number: 110
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: 91
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: TONER CARTRIDGES              Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Absolutely.  And if the colors you use are cyan, magenta, yellow, and
black, you can make just about ANY color you want.  Do it all in a
single pass and you've got yourself a true color laser printer, probably
available in the next 2 or 3 years.....
<DM>

Date: 02-12-87 (09:41)              Number: 112
  To: GREG JACKSON                  Refer#: 96
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: DESKTOP PUBLISHING            Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

weezeeweeg

Date: 02-12-87 (09:51)              Number: 113
  To: GREG JACKSON                  Refer#: 97
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: IBM PATTERNS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

If you bought $10,000 worth of IBM in 65 you'd be rich today.  I've
worked in large IBM mainframe shops for 18 years and I have some
experience with their corporate culture.  Until 1981, the only people
they dealt with were corporations.  And they did set a lot of standards,
and they were extremely successful--80% of the free world's mainframes
is nothing to sneeze at--.  Copying a mainframe takes an enormous
investment, and keeping up with IBM takes a company almost as big as
them to begin with.  Little competition in that field.  But when they
tried to take away the microcomputer lead from Apple, they found
themselves dealing with millions of individuals--a huge monolith whose
collective opinion IBM could not alter or shape as they did their
corporate customers--.  And, of course, their system was wide opened and
it did not take much of an investment to duplicate the hardware.
Eventually compatible BIOS were developed and the market gained its own
momentum independently of IBM.  I really have no idea what lurks within
IBM's darker recesses, but I am not sure they can sell anyone a machine
that is totally new, incompatible with the established PC standard(s),
and contains proprietary technology.  I think they're more likely to
attack it via software (ie, a new IBM operating system for 286/386
PCs)....
<DM>

Date: 02-12-87 (09:54)              Number: 114
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: 103
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: CONTINUING MSG 102            Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Yes, thanks for the info.  We use MS Word with HPLJ and it looks like
they only support HP's downloadable fonts.  Softcraft addresses this
shortcoming quite nicely and others should follow their example....
<DM>

Date: 02-12-87 (20:10)              Number: 116
  To: DAN MOORE                     Refer#: 110
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: TONER CARTRIDGES              Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

If it's that easy, why hasn't HP or some independent come out with a
color toner cartridge for the Laserjet?  It should certainly sell well
if applications were pointed out to people.

Date: 02-14-87 (07:41)              Number: 121
  To: MIKE FARNHAM                  Refer#: 108
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: NO
Subj: QUADLASR                      Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

With the available emulation, what's preventing you from printing a
spreadsheet?  Also, is emulation all that's available, or does it also
offer its own, proprietary mode?
<<DM>>

Date: 02-14-87 (07:45)              Number: 122
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: 116
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: TONER CARTRIDGES              Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Good question.  I'll call my local HP contacts and ask them why....
<<DM>>

Date: 02-16-87 (13:07)              Number: 130
  To: CHUCK COOPER                  Refer#: 127
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: NEW USER                      Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Chuck, what about c2 (c-squared)?
Dan

Date: 02-16-87 (21:18)              Number: 131
  To: DAN MOORE                     Refer#: 130
From: CHUCK COOPER                    Read: YES
Subj: NEW USER                      Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

  Maybe I'll just go by                  -=*The Big Guy*=-
in the future...was never much for math anyway.
  Or, when in the DTP Conference, simply TBG.  It sorta has a ring to
it, no?
                                            TBG in DTP signing off

Date: 02-17-87 (04:58)              Number: 135
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: NONE
From: CURTIS COOPER                   Read: YES
Subj: RAGS                          Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

         Marty,
           I am looking for newsletters,magazines or periodicals
         that have to do with DP. I have seen the mag Publish!
         but have an appetite for more. You or any of your
         members have answers?
                              Thanks,
                                     CCC


Date: 02-17-87 (09:49)              Number: 136
  To: CHUCK COOPER                  Refer#: 131
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: NEW USER                      Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Chuck, you're overworked and your brain is melting down...You belong on
the Executive Network BBS; try it sometime.
Dan

Date: 02-18-87 (00:32)              Number: 142
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: 94
From: KENN FLEE                       Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Sorry guys... I used the MAC under protest.  The reliability of the 20
meg hard drive was suspect, and I REALLY don't like the keyboard.
Granted you can do some neat things, but for long-term keyboarding, the
thing just didn't want to cooperate.  I guess I just like the IBM
machines and all the various clones.  But I also don't like WYSIWYG... I
much prefer to SEE the tiny type, and I like imbedded commands.  Oh
well.   -Kenn-

Date: 02-18-87 (00:41)              Number: 143
  To: MIKE FARNHAM                  Refer#: 108
From: KENN FLEE                       Read: NO
Subj: QUADLASR                      Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

I think you underestimated the amount of RAM in your QuadLaser.  Unless
it's a very early version, it should have a minimum of 1.5 meg, with the
additional 512K of RAM user installable (the manual actually has
instructions for installing 2 banks of 150ns 256K chips; 16 total).
Using the included font editor, I "corrected" one of the Times Roman
fonts to be more "typographically" correct and have used it with great
success with WordPerfect, getting nicely justified bold and roman text.
I started with 12pt, modifying widths in both the font and in
Wordperfect, then use 14* in the format line.  A new ROM set sent from
Quad in December increased the HP emualation to include most plus
features.    -Kenn-
PS. The newest Quads come with 2 meg standard.

Date: 02-18-87 (06:08)              Number: 144
  To: CHUCK COOPER                  Refer#: 141
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: NEW USER                      Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

The Executive Network BBS is located in Mount Vernon, NY, at (914)
667-4567.  I'm not sure where the executive part comes from, but the
network part relates to the fact that the board is run by Cyllon systems
who specialize in networking PCs and does PC onsulting of all sorts.  It
has the craziest message base and educated users exchanging one-liners
all day long.....miss a day and you'll never catch up (ie, 100 new
messages since you last logged on).  Andy Keeves is one of the
friendlier sysops and makes all new users feel welcome.....Dan

Date: 02-18-87 (22:41)              Number: 146
  To: CARTER LUSHER                 Refer#: 145
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: DESKTOP PUBLISHING            Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

That's the same pronounciation I suggested about 85 messages ago but you
phoneticized it better than I did!
Did anyone suggest WIGINWIS (What I get is NEVER what I see)?  It's even
pronounceable!

Date: 02-19-87 (07:17)              Number: 147
  To: DAN MOORE                     Refer#: 138
From: CURTIS COOPER                   Read: YES
Subj: NEW USER                      Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Dan,

I like the C Cubed.

                     C to the 3rd

Date: 02-19-87 (19:25)              Number: 149
  To: CURTIS COOPER                 Refer#: 147
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: NEW USER                      Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Now, that's real class!
----Dan----

Date: 02-23-87 (15:31)              Number: 152
  To: ALL                           Refer#: NONE
From: CARTER LUSHER                   Read: (N/A)
Subj: VENTURA PUBLISHING            Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

UWHC is interested in buying Ventura Publishing but we are reluctant
without seeing it in an actual work environment without a sales person
hanging over our shoulder.

Does anybody in Madison have a copy of this worthy software installed
and would not mind having a couple of 'tourists' looking over your
shoulder for a short time, please leave a message or call Carter at
263-4126.

Thanx,
                  ::cjl::


Date: 02-24-87 (06:43)              Number: 154
  To: BOB FLORES                    Refer#: 153
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Sorry for intruding, but do you really think IBM can be successful in
introducing a closed architecture machine when there's almost 10 million
PC-MS-DOS machines out there?  I'm not sure their corporate customer
base would buy them any more than the regular public, and it may just be
another PC Jr or PR RT as far as success goes.
----Dan----

Date: 02-24-87 (17:04)              Number: 155
  To: ALL                           Refer#: NONE
From: CARTER LUSHER                   Read: (N/A)
Subj: SUBJECTS                      Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

We have made a mockery of the SUBJECT line in messages!

If you do a Quick scan, the vast majority of the message subjects are
"HP Laserjet" which is not relevant to most of the messages.

Lets stamp out SUBJECT laziness!!  If you are starting a new rant -- put
a new subject!

This will also help out on THREADs etc.

            ::cjl::

Date: 02-25-87 (03:11)              Number: 156
  To: CARTER LUSHER                 Refer#: 155
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: SUBJECTS                      Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Carter, you must be an old systems analyst - trying to bring order out
of chaos!  Sounds like a good idea though to make subjects more specific
but that seems to be a problem on all boards with message threads.

Date: 02-25-87 (10:17)              Number: 157
  To: CARTER LUSHER                 Refer#: 155
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: SUBJECTS                      Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

You make a good point, but some of the problem can be traced to our
inability to change subject while replying to a message; by default the
subject of the reply is that of the origin message.  PCBoard sure could
use a "Change Subject" option when entering a reply, don't you think?
Also, are you suggesting that messages be limited to a single topic?  If
I am asked three separate questions in a single message, the only way to
satisfy your requirement would be to enter three separate messages with
new subjects which would, in fact, sever the thread between the original
message and its replies.
----Dan----

Date: 02-26-87 (22:56)              Number: 159
  To: ALL                           Refer#: NONE
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: (N/A)
Subj: COLOR LASERJET CARTRIDGES     Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE


        ╔═════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╗
        ║ Answer to question about color cartridges for LASERJETS ║
        ╟─────────────────────────────────────────────────────────╢
        ╟─────────────────────────────────────────────────────────╢
        ║ I called Hewlett Packard's Laserjet Hotline to ask them ║
        ║ whether there is any possibility that they would be     ║
        ║ producing colored cartridges for the Laserjets.         ║
        ║                                                         ║
        ║ They do sell brown in addition to black but that's all. ║
        ║ They have tested other color cartridges but found that  ║
        ║ it takes too much color toner to make useable colors    ║
        ║ so it would be prohibitively expensive to print in      ║
        ║ colors on the Laserjet.  So they have no plans to       ║
        ║ manufacture color cartridges.  Too bad!                 ║
        ╚═════════════════════════════════════════════════════════╝


Date: 02-27-87 (05:14)              Number: 160
  To: DAN MOORE                     Refer#: 154
From: BOB FLORES                      Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

No, I think it's going to be disasterous for them.  But I think they're
still gonna do it.

Date: 02-27-87 (10:00)              Number: 161
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: 159
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: COLOR LASERJET CARTRIDGES     Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

You pre-empted my own message, Marty; I also called HP.
However, the latest issue of PC Magazine, page 380 (the PC Marketplace
ads), Shows that LaserExpress, 461 Lakeview . W., Mobile, Al. 36609, at
[phone] or [phone] sells Black, brown, and blue LJ
cartridges.  Obviously, the point made in Marty's message re. excessive
toner usage for other colors is true: the blue cartridge costs $134.95,
while the black and brown are $82.95 and $96.95, respectively.
----Dan----

Date: 02-27-87 (10:05)              Number: 162
  To: BOB FLORES                    Refer#: 160
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

That's one big advantage IBM has; they can make disastrous mistakes and
still survive, but this cannot last forever.  The only way they could be
successful would be to introduce a real value-added machine at
lower-than-clone prices....but I still think the majority of existing
users aren't going to throw away what they have and line up at IBM's
door....On the other hand, they may get wise, admit the PC market got
away from them, and abandon it altogether.
----Dan----

Date: 02-27-87 (21:35)              Number: 163
  To: DAN MOORE                     Refer#: 162
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

There's no way IBM can afford to abandon the PC market.  It's too big
and the future of PC's and mainframes are too closely tied for IBM to
concede the PC market to clones.  Besides many IBM customers still wait
to buy from IBM.  Fewer than before but still a substantial number.

Date: 02-28-87 (09:44)              Number: 165
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: 163
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

I am a big IBM customer (spend well over a million a year) and I gave up
buying IBM about two years ago.  Couldn't justify the cost of their
logo.
----Dan----

Date: 02-28-87 (12:14)              Number: 166
  To: CARTER LUSHER                 Refer#: 152
From: KENN FLEE                       Read: YES
Subj: VENTURA PUBLISHING            Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

One of the groups I'm doing work for has just installed Ventura on a
Wyse AT clone with the BIG screen.... I'll check and let you know, but
in any case, since I'm supposed to be working on the thing, will give
you my impressions anyway.  ( bought to replace and/or supplement the
MAC/Applewriter combo they are currently using)  -Kenn-

Date: 03-01-87 (15:42)              Number: 167
  To: DAN MOORE                     Refer#: 157
From: CARTER LUSHER                   Read: YES
Subj: SUBJECTS                      Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

By no means am I suggesting a single thought per message.  It is just
that most messages will have a predominate theme, thus the idea behind a
single subject.

This all came about when I tried to find some previous messages about
Ventura Publishing.

             ::cjl::

Date: 03-01-87 (15:47)              Number: 168
  To: KENN FLEE                     Refer#: 166
From: CARTER LUSHER                   Read: YES
Subj: VENTURA PUBLISHING            Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Thanks Kenn.  Will be eager to hear about the Ventura/Wyse adventure.

We are thinking about doing the same -- supplementing/replacing a
MAC/Pagemaker setup.  The Mac fanatics are going bonkers bad mouthing
the Ventura (based on review articles I give them).  So it is hard for
me to know if their ravings have any credibility.

          ::cjl::


Date: 03-01-87 (16:49)              Number: 169
  To: DAN MOORE                     Refer#: 165
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Do you spend over $1,000,000 on just PC hardware/software or does that
include mainframe costs as well?  If just PC's, that's a lota PC's!
What PC hardware/software are you buying if not IBM?

Date: 03-01-87 (16:54)              Number: 170
  To: KENN FLEE                     Refer#: 166
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: VENTURA PUBLISHING            Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

I'm anxious to hear someone compare Ventura to PC-Pagemaker - someone
who has tried both.  Sounds like Pagemaker may be easier to use and that
Ventura may be a bit more powerful?  Pagemaker runs under MS-Windows and
I don't care that much for Windows from the times I've tried it.  Does
Ventura run stand-alone?

Date: 03-02-87 (06:56)              Number: 172
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: 169
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Nope, the million bucks is what we pay IBM each year for mainframe,
peripherals, software, hardware maintenance etc....  Actually, we build
our own PCs inhouse (XT compatible dual-speed).  We have been buying
Packard-Bell AT compatibles, very good machines with excellent support.
----Dan----

Date: 03-02-87 (11:17)              Number: 173
  To: ALL                           Refer#: NONE
From: JOHN SOPSICK                    Read: (N/A)
Subj: HP BBS                        Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Is there an "official" HP BBS which supports LJ and LJ+ printers?
I called the HP Hotline and the HP Regional Support Center and they knew
nothing of this, but they are notably inefficient in such
matters.

Date: 03-02-87 (21:06)              Number: 175
  To: JOHN SOPSICK                  Refer#: 173
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: HP BBS                        Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

As far as I have been able to determine from the folks at HP, they don't
even understand what a computer bulletin board is much less having one
of their own in operation!  I have contacted their Laserjet Public
Relations Department and, once they halfway understood what a BBS is,
they agreed to be open for my suggestions on how to support it.  So far
they have sent a slick PRESS packet of materials on the Laserjet II.
I still have to write them with a better description of the conference
and BBS - does anyone have any suggestions about how they could provide
support to this conference?
I will also suggest to them that they consider the possibility of
starting their own BBS with Laserjet information.  One 2 page spread in
TIME magazine probably costs more than supporting a multi-node BBS for
years!

Date: 03-02-87 (23:00)              Number: 176
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: 175
From: GREG JACKSON                    Read: YES
Subj: HP BBS                        Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

I don't find it very exceptional that the people at HP don't know what a
BBS is.  I have been dealing with people in the publishing and software
industry for several months now in trying to promote a BBS and most of
them really don't understand what's what.  In trying to create a
bulletin board for a computer magazine I had to explain at some length
what a bulletin board is, what shareware means, and how it all works.
This explaination had to be done for the magazine editor as well as a
number of others at the magazine.  People who are heavily into the BBS
world forget what a tiny corner of reality we each live in.

Date: 03-03-87 (07:15)              Number: 177
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: 174
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: APPLE LASERWRITER AND IBM     Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

I don't have an Apple Laserwriter but there are instructions in the MS
Word manual:
Set the switch on the side of the printer to 9600 baud
To connect to the PC, use a serial printer cable---a standard RS232
Cable will NOT work (use a cable similar to that used for a Laserjet)
Issue mode command: MODE COM1:9600,n,8,1,p
If your software does not support serial communications, issue:
MODE LPT1:=COM1: to redirect standard output to serial port.
----Dan----

Date: 03-03-87 (07:17)              Number: 178
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: 175
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: HP BBS                        Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Yes, I have an idea.  Just have a bunch of people call them, asking for
it.  Maybe they can send diskettes of LJ-specific software. uh?
----Dan----

Date: 03-03-87 (10:20)              Number: 179
  To: CARTER LUSHER                 Refer#: 168
From: KENN FLEE                       Read: YES
Subj: VENTURA PUBLISHING            Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

First impressions:  Very favorable!  The big screen shows a full page in
a size you can read, the options are very complete, and the darn thing
is FAST... all the things on my wish list to make the damn MAC work
"right".  This weeks Info World had a review on Ventura, and I generally
concur.  In any case, I was convinced enough to order a copy... should
be in hand next week.
  As an aside, in discussions with Quad today, they say that Ventura is
working very nicely under their HP emulation, and that the latest
emulation software is available for downloading from their bulletin
board (see another message).  As a small plug, yes, I am a dealer for
both Wyse and QuadRam... but even if I weren't, I am still very much
impressed with Venture/Wyse combo.  For the record, the mouse I used was
Logitech.     -Kenn-

Date: 03-03-87 (10:24)              Number: 180
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: 170
From: KENN FLEE                       Read: YES
Subj: VENTURA PUBLISHING            Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

My experience with Pagemaker has been on the MAC, Ventura on an AT
clone.  I very much dislike Pagemaker, but that may be the MAC's fault.
I haven't tried it on a PC yet.  And yes, Ventura runs alone, but under
GEM -- see this weeks INFO WORLD.   -Kenn-

Date: 03-03-87 (10:28)              Number: 181
  To: GREG JACKSON                  Refer#: 176
From: KENN FLEE                       Read: YES
Subj: HP BBS                        Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

As a shareware author who understandably believes that QFILER is as good
or better than many "commercial" programs of it's ilk, I see red
every time there is yet another major review of software -- with all the
really good shareware stuff omitted, except Wallace and Button.  You
would think at least some of the contributing editors would know what's
happening in the "real" world.   -Kenn-

Date: 03-03-87 (10:31)              Number: 182
  To: ALL                           Refer#: NONE
From: KENN FLEE                       Read: (N/A)
Subj: QUAD BBS!                     Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Quadram now has a bulletin board where the latest drivers are available
for download, including wordperfect and latest HP emulation.

404-564-5803, 24 hours, 1200 baud (ugh!)    -Kenn-
(for the QuadLaser, of course)

Date: 03-03-87 (10:37)              Number: 183
  To: ALL                           Refer#: NONE
From: KENN FLEE                       Read: (N/A)
Subj: QUADLASER POSTSCRIPT          Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Latest info direct from Quad:  The add-in controller upgrade for
existing QuadLasers is scheduled for May, "with delivery expected to
slip to June or July".   Upgrade cost is around $1295 list.  With it,
you would have both the HP emulation now included, and Postscript to
boot.  New ROMS are now being shipped to allow access to the new 72 font
"typeset" quality fonts that are included with the newest 2 meg units.
Price for toner just went up to $99 list (2 cartidges).  -Kenn-

Date: 03-03-87 (11:25)              Number: 184
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: 175
From: JOHN SOPSICK                    Read: YES
Subj: HP BBS                        Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

In my opinion, all HP would have to do to support the conference would
be to send disks with any valuable utilities they might care to provide,
and any technical data/release notes they have in the form of TXT files.

Perhaps we could also arrange to forward any technical questions that
arise on this conference that can't be answered by anyone here.  Their
responses could be entered as messages or placed on the board as files.

Date: 03-03-87 (21:29)              Number: 186
  To: ALL                           Refer#: NONE
From: BOB SCHNECK                     Read: (N/A)
Subj: LASER PRINTER CARTRIDGE       Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

I have a great deal on laser printer cartridge!  Example: The Hewlett
Packard EP Toner Cartridge for as low as $90.00 super deal on many other
computer supplies! Call voice any time [phone] ATFI Distributing.
 and ask for Bob.

Date: 03-04-87 (07:41)              Number: 189
  To: ALL                           Refer#: NONE
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: (N/A)
Subj: HP 92286Z CARTRIDGE           Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Just got the HP92286Z Microsoft 1 (tm) HPLJ cartridge.
--typeface--------pointsize----strokeweight/style
Helvetica           8          medium
"  "               10          medium bold italic
"  "               12          medium bold italic
"  "               14          bold
TmsRmn              8          medium
"  "               10          medium bold italic
"  "               12          medium bold italic
"  "               14          bold
All above portrait
Lineprinter         8.5        medium (16.66 pitch)
Above landscape only
.
Microsoft Word has driver for this font cartridge.  Output is absolutely
fantastic.
.
----Dan----

Date: 03-04-87 (19:31)              Number: 191
  To: DAN MOORE                     Refer#: 189
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: HP 92286Z CARTRIDGE           Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

That sounds like a really impressive cartridge - I had not heard about
the availability of that one.  How did they manage to fit so many fonts
in one cartridge (sounds like 17)?
We have cartridges F, G, D, N, and L, of which F and G get the most use.
We also have soft font sets that include Times Roman, HELV, Prestige
Elite, Line Printer, and Line Draw in many sizes and orientations.
While we use the cartridges much more than the soft fonts, I think the
soft fonts (and built-in fonts) will ultimately be the most important in
maximizing the potential of laser printers.


Date: 03-04-87 (19:42)              Number: 193
  To: JOHN SOPSICK                  Refer#: 184
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: HP BBS                        Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Good suggestions - thanks - I'll forward them to HP.  My guess is that
HP is too big and independent to bother with sending our BBS anything
they don't have readily available for public relations distribution
already but you never know until you ask.

Date: 03-04-87 (19:47)              Number: 194
  To: DAN MOORE                     Refer#: 178
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: HP BBS                        Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

The last time I asked their Laserjet Hotline people for LJ utilities or
public domain software they had none available and they had very little
for sale themselves.  But I'll ask again.


Date: 03-05-87 (11:44)              Number: 197
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: 191
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: HP 92286Z CARTRIDGE           Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Have you ever tried Laserfonts by Softcraft?  Very impressive package
especially if you use MS Word.
----Dan----

Date: 03-05-87 (11:46)              Number: 198
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: 192
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: HP 92286Z CARTRIDGE           Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Will do.
----Dan----

Date: 03-05-87 (11:48)              Number: 199
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: 194
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: HP BBS                        Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

They once sent me some coding samples for landscape mode.  Since there
are so many others supporting that printer, why should they bother?
It's called the Big Blue Syndrome.
----Dan----

Date: 03-06-87 (01:44)              Number: 200
  To: DAN MOORE                     Refer#: 197
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: HP 92286Z CARTRIDGE           Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Yes we have Laserfonts but not MS Word.  I wonder if anyone on this
conference uses any other font packages other than those from HP or
SoftCraft?  There are other font vendors.  Supposed to be some very good
professional fonts from Bitstream (?) but I'm not sure who markets them.

Date: 03-06-87 (01:49)              Number: 201
  To: DAN MOORE                     Refer#: NONE
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: HPWORD.ARC                    Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

I just uploaded HPWORD.ARC but I can't judge its usefulness since we
don't use WORD.  What do you think of it?

Date: 03-06-87 (15:08)              Number: 202
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: 200
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: HP 92286Z CARTRIDGE           Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Yes, I heard that name before, but I haven't seen them in the magazines.
 I think they deal primarily with other software vendors that want to
incorporate fonts in their products such as desk top publishers etc...
The samples are in the mail, by the way.
----Dan----

Date: 03-06-87 (15:12)              Number: 203
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: 201
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: HPWORD.ARC                    Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

I have conversed quite a bit with Guy Gallo who created that print
driver.  What it does is combine the two most popular HP cartridges into
a single driver, as well as provide a facility to print envelopes on a
HPLJ if you use MS Word.  You tell Word that forms are to be fed
manually from bin 3 or something and it will cause automatic switch to
landscape mode and manual feed thru the feed slot.....it does work, but
the LJ is extremely sensitive to the paper thickness and texture, and
some envelopes do nothing but cause jams.
That file is of no use to you unless you are a Word user.
----Dan----

Date: 03-06-87 (19:05)              Number: 204
  To: DAN MOORE                     Refer#: 203
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: HPWORD.ARC                    Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Yes I figured the file was only useful to Word users but I upload all
files to this conference that I find on other boards that relate to the
purpose of the conference - files for any laser printers or any word
processors with laser drivers/utilities.  That way the conference will
hopefully have something for everyone, not just Laserjet users.

Date: 03-06-87 (19:07)              Number: 205
  To: DAN MOORE                     Refer#: 203
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: HPWORD.ARC                    Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

I didn't realize the Laserjet was sensitive to paper thickness (altho I
can understand it having a problem with envelopes).  We don't use odd
paper very often but on occasion I have fed 60-70 lb card stock,
transparencies, and even envelopes without problems.

Date: 03-06-87 (19:11)              Number: 206
  To: DAN MOORE                     Refer#: 203
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: HPWORD.ARC                    Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

What board did you find Guy Gallo on?  I'd like to converse with him
sometime myself.  His latest versions of his Laserjet utility have
gotten quite good (the version 4.4 that we have on this board is more
recent than most BBS's have but is still several months old - do you
know if there is a more recent version?)

Date: 03-07-87 (08:28)              Number: 207
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: 205
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: HPWORD.ARC                    Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Letter sized envelopes have this nasty habit of shifting sideways in the
LJ's paper path.
----Dan----

Date: 03-07-87 (08:29)              Number: 208
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: 206
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: HPWORD.ARC                    Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

I have talked to him on Rockland, but the board we've used the most for
msg exchanges is the Doctor's Office at 212-6628597.
----Dan----

Date: 03-07-87 (11:26)              Number: 209
  To: ALL                           Refer#: NONE
From: JOHN LEDERER                    Read: (N/A)
Subj: ENVELOPES,TONER,ROLLERS       Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

We have been running about 16 HP laserjets in a law office.  The
machines get pretty heavy use.  The following are a few observations:
1.  Thre just isn't any real practical solution we have found to
envelopes.  Despite heavy use of macros it still takes the secretary as
long to do the envelope as to do a short letter.  Add on feeders are big
bucks.  Has any one come up with a practical solution?
2.  We have tried having our used cartridges reloaded.  Price is about
$40 from a n outfit in Massachusetts.  We stopped doing it because of
quality problems-- about 1/3 of the cardtyridges streaked.  Though the
company would replace them, the hassle was too much.  We pay about $72 a
cartridge for new HP ones.
3.  Our older machines have been having problems.  As the warranty
expires the heat roller that does the final finishing gets marks under
the little plastic "teeth" that ride on it, eventually wears through the
surface skin and the roller comes apart.  HP has dodged and ducked--
claims that our paper had too much cotton (25%), and has not contributed
to repair (about $100-150).  The new rollers, and the rollers on our
later machines are of different material.
The problem is apparently widespread-- all kinds of delays and shortages
on getting the rollers.
4.  We have found the machines very sensitive to paper.  Each time we
change our letterhead we go through gyrations checking out different
engraving, paper weight, etc. In winter we get speckling on paper from
low humidity.
5.  Despite the problems, the machines are pretty good. We have a couple
coming up on 200, 000 pages and still whooshing along.  We regularly
clean the plastic teeth now along with other recommended cleaning.

Date: 03-07-87 (11:31)              Number: 210
  To: ALL                           Refer#: NONE
From: JOHN LEDERER                    Read: (N/A)
Subj: OASYS                         Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

We are using an OASYS laserjet to run about 10,000 pages a month.
Fifteen pages per minute.  We feel a bit like a test site, but when the
machine is running it is a very nice machine.  Most impressive ( and
importatnt in this kind of application) it is virtually jam free. We
tried distributed printing to 3 HP laserjets, but the jams just killed
us.  Is there anybody out there using an under $10,000 machine for heavy
duty applications?  The Oasys was the best we could come up with (about
$8000).  I believe ours is the only one in Madison.  Be glad to let
anyone see it.  It has the EXPRESS language, HP emulation, and 2 250
page trays that it feeds from sequentially.

Date: 03-07-87 (16:39)              Number: 211
  To: DAN MOORE                     Refer#: 208
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: HPWORD.ARC                    Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Thanks for the info Dan.  In return, I'll ask Eric to lay off you for
awhile!

Date: 03-07-87 (16:51)              Number: 212
  To: JOHN LEDERER                  Refer#: 209
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: ENVELOPES,TONER,ROLLERS       Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Thanks for a very informative message.  16 Laserjets in one office!  Who
ever said lawyers were wordy, huh!
I've not heard of the problems you mentioned.  We have 3 Laserjets used
by 45 people, the oldest of which is over 3 years old, and have
experienced no problems.  We mostly use high quality copier paper and
only occassionally use bond letterhead stock.
With the heavy use you're making of your Laserjets tho, $100 for rollers
after extensive use doesn't seem too unreasonable, especially if the new
rollers last longer than the originals.

Date: 03-07-87 (16:54)              Number: 213
  To: JOHN LEDERER                  Refer#: 209
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: ENVELOPES,TONER,ROLLERS       Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

To all Laserjet users.  How many of you regularly clean your printers
according to instructions.  I know we don't, partly because the cleaning
instructions are not that easy to understand.

Date: 03-07-87 (16:58)              Number: 214
  To: JOHN LEDERER                  Refer#: 210
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: OASYS                         Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Again I wonder why your experience with Laserets is so different from
ours.  We almost never get a paer jam with Laserjets even tho we never
bother to fan paper when loading input trays.  Every copier we've ever
used has had worse paper jamming problems than Laserjets.

Date: 03-08-87 (01:56)              Number: 215
  To: DAN MOORE                     Refer#: 199
From: BRIAN MOURA                     Read: YES
Subj: HP BBS                        Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

There is a HP-oriented BBS in Sunnyvale,CA sponsored by Interex.  Call
408-746-0834 if interested.  (They have a few LJ+ utilities and soft
fonts available in the file section).

Date: 03-09-87 (21:30)              Number: 216
  To: JOHN LEDERER                  Refer#: 209
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: ENVELOPES,TONER,ROLLERS       Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

We have fewer LJs than you do (8-10) and have had no real problems, but
then we probably use them less also.
Envelopes cause feed problems quite consistently.  As far as being able
to print them on the , we have had success with Guy Gallo's HPWORD.ARC
print driver for Microsoft Word (which is useless with any other wp
program).  One of these days I will write a LJ envelope/mailing label
program, but don't hold your breath.
----Dan----

Date: 03-09-87 (21:31)              Number: 217
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: 211
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: HPWORD.ARC                    Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

He already has.
----Dan----

Date: 03-09-87 (21:32)              Number: 218
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: 213
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: ENVELOPES,TONER,ROLLERS       Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

I don't think we ever have, but then we don't have problems.  I think we
give them a cursory look when replacing the toner cartridge.
----Dan----

Date: 03-09-87 (21:33)              Number: 219
  To: BRIAN MOURA                   Refer#: 215
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: HP BBS                        Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Hey, thanks Brian.  Good number to know.  Appreciate the info.
Did you write that down Marty?
----Dan----

Date: 03-09-87 (21:56)              Number: 220
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: 170
From: RICK BARNETT                    Read: YES
Subj: VENTURA PUBLISHING            Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

The major limitation of PAGEMAKER is inherent in its name.  It was
designed by people grounded in the mechanical aspect of page
composition.  It is therefore necessary to hand tune each page
individually.  It is of limited usefulness,ie. speed to all but PC-AT
class machines.  Ventura on the other hand works more than adequately on
a 4 MHZ machine , allows for boilerplating ala MSWORD and has nearly
$500 worth of fonts HELVETICA and TIMES from 6-24 point portrait and
landscape thrown in to boot.  There also exists a set of conversion
utilities to allow the user to incorporate additional HP Format
softfontss.  Hands down Ventura is the sensible choice.  We sell them
both and I can't get myself to recommend Pagemaker over VP for anything
but the most simplistic applications.  If anyone would like a further
discussion call my store number [phone] 10AM to 6PM Eastern time

Date: 03-09-87 (22:08)              Number: 221
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: 98
From: RICK BARNETT                    Read: YES
Subj: NEW LASERJET PRINTERS         Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

As of March 2, there has NOT been any price reduction of existing LJ
series save for a $500 reduction on LJ 500 +.  Recently introduced LJ2
machine weighs in at a hefty 52 lbs, 2 expansion slots with internal
connector for DDL page description language ($2495) which requires 2 MEG
upgrade.  One very interesting aspect of LJ 2000 is the drum cartridge
(manufactured by KYOCERA, an up and coming manufacturer who markets
their own proprietary engine) has a rated life expectancy of count 'em
500,000 PAGES.

Date: 03-09-87 (23:19)              Number: 225
  To: DAN MOORE                     Refer#: 219
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: HP BBS                        Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Yes I wrote the number down and even dialed the board but their emphasis
is more on HP microcomputers rather than on Laserjets.


Date: 03-09-87 (23:21)              Number: 226
  To: RICK BARNETT                  Refer#: 220
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: VENTURA PUBLISHING            Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Rick - thanks for the informative messages.  We'll be looking forward to
your further participation in the message base.


Date: 03-09-87 (23:25)              Number: 227
  To: RICK BARNETT                  Refer#: 220
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: VENTURA PUBLISHING            Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

That's seems like a good recommendation since you sell them both.  I
haven't looked at either yet but from the reviews, I'm concerned about
how difficult Ventura might be to use for the casual (occasional) user
compared to Pagemaker. Can you comment on this?  Also will the agreement
that HP made with Pagemaker folks (& MS Windows) make that more useful
for Laserjet owners?


Date: 03-09-87 (23:28)              Number: 228
  To: RICK BARNETT                  Refer#: 221
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: NEW LASERJET PRINTERS         Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Sounds like you sell Laserjets as well as DT publishers?  We had some
prior messages in this base about color cartridges not being available
for Canon laser engines because of cost.  Have you ever heard anything
about availability or non-availability of color toner cartridges?


Date: 03-10-87 (11:44)              Number: 232
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: 228
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: NEW LASERJET PRINTERS         Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Didn't I leave a message in this conference?  There is an outfit
somewhere that sells blue and brown.  Blue costs an arm and a leg (ie,
around $140) and brown is in the $100 neighborhood.  Saw the ad in the
back pages of PC a couple of weeks ago.
----Dan----


Date: 03-10-87 (20:23)              Number: 234
  To: DAN MOORE                     Refer#: 232
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: NEW LASERJET PRINTERS         Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Yes you conveyed that in message 161.  I had forgotten about the blue &
brown cartridge availability because they don't seem like they would add
that much to black (blue might depending on the shade tho).  What I was
really hoping for was red & yellow & green in various shades for
technicolor pages!

Date: 03-10-87 (20:29)              Number: 235
  To: DAN MOORE                     Refer#: 202
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: HP 92286Z CARTRIDGE           Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Dan - I received your samples from Cartridge Z.  Thanks.  They look
great (altho part of the appearance is that classy paper you use - we
just use copier paper most of the time).  I may just order one of those
cartridges.
The $1,000,000 is in the mail to you.   Let me know when it arrives.

Date: 03-11-87 (02:20)              Number: 236
  To: ALL                           Refer#: NONE
From: KENN FLEE                       Read: (N/A)
Subj: VENTURA                       Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

OK guys... in a personal vendetta against postscipt/apple/mac's I now
have Ventura running in an AT clone, driving both an Epson compatible
and a Quadlaser running under HP+ emulation.  (actually also running a
Laserwriter under postscipt).  Using EGA on one machine and a WYSE 700
on the other.  So far, I like both... much better than Pagemaker on the
MAC plus.  I'm open to questions/suggestions, since I'm still just
wading through all the features.        -Kenn-


Date: 03-12-87 (10:30)              Number: 238
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: 234
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: NEW LASERJET PRINTERS         Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

If you want multicolor, I think some of the current crop of dot-matrix
and possibly thermal transfer devices may be the way to go.  Affordable
and effective multicolor quality laser printing is still a few years
away, I'm afraid.
----Dan----

Date: 03-12-87 (10:33)              Number: 239
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: 235
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: HP 92286Z CARTRIDGE           Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Same here, but the good bond paper really makes the laserjet shine and I
didn't want to use the cheap stuff in thius case.
----Dan----

Date: 03-12-87 (11:26)              Number: 240
  To: ALL                           Refer#: NONE
From: CARTER LUSHER                   Read: (N/A)
Subj: LASER COLOR                   Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Apparently a magazine called Personal Publishing has an article in the
most recent issue on "Color for Lasers".  Has anybody seen it?  MACC's
MIC has a copy and I will try and get down there to read it.

        ::cjl::

Date: 03-12-87 (22:00)              Number: 241
  To: KENN FLEE                     Refer#: 236
From: GREG JACKSON                    Read: YES
Subj: VENTURA                       Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Fighting the Postscript landslide is like trying to swim upstream.  We
just got a Apple laser because it is the best deal on a postscript
printer around.  We have a $45,000 microVAX with a $7,000 graphics
package.  The device drivers are either an Imagin ($8000 laser printer)
or any postscript printer.

I think the people at Digital Equip Corp are laughing all the way to the
bankO.

Date: 03-12-87 (23:18)              Number: 242
  To: GREG JACKSON                  Refer#: 241
From: KENN FLEE                       Read: NO
Subj: VENTURA                       Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

That is definitely NOT a home-type system!   -Kenn-


Date: 03-13-87 (03:05)              Number: 244
  To: DAN MOORE                     Refer#: 238
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: NEW LASERJET PRINTERS         Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

I'm not impressed with the color dot matrix printers I've seen.  Thermal
transfer and ink jet seems promising tho.   Like the IBM Jet Printer for
about $799 retail - good price, great colors and color saturation, but
poor resolution (about 100X100).
Does anyone have a good non-impact color printer they care to recommend.
 I hope to get one within the next year but don't know which to get.

Date: 03-13-87 (03:06)              Number: 245
  To: DAN MOORE                     Refer#: 239
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: HP 92286Z CARTRIDGE           Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

You shouldn't have told me.  I thought you used that fancy stuff all the
time.

Date: 03-13-87 (05:19)              Number: 246
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: 1
From: CARL VOELZ                      Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

I have/use a HP 500+.  I got it at the best possible price, from a
friend who is an HP employee out in LaLa Land (formerly in Los Angeles).
I love it and thought about developing some commercial products for it.
I have a couple of things available for FinalWord & SoftCraft
(LaserFont) & HP users (they automate the interfacing of any subset of
LaserFonts to FinalWord II).  I'll give them away ***free*** to anyone
who might want them.  Although the HPs are probably the most popular of
the laser printers, even HP has only sold 300,000 (by HP's
own admission) which means that it is still a very small market.

Getting back to the point:  HP employees can buy them at less than 50%
of list!  Take an HP employee to lunch, buy them cocktails, get next to
them, etc.  I have found HP employees to be easy...

Date: 03-13-87 (05:30)              Number: 247
  To: DAN MOORE                     Refer#: 48
From: CARL VOELZ                      Read: YES
Subj: TONER CARTRIDGES              Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Yes, you can get colored cartridges; order from any HP dealer.


Date: 03-13-87 (05:33)              Number: 248
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: 59
From: CARL VOELZ                      Read: YES
Subj: TONER CARTRIDGES              Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

HP raised the price of the regular cartridge recently.  Anyone know
where I can buy them or an alternate brand at a discount?

Date: 03-13-87 (14:08)              Number: 249
  To: CARL VOELZ                    Refer#: 246
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Seriously, are you going to upload the files you mentioned or are you
suggesting that people should ask you for them?  Sounds like you have
some nice stuff!  Thanks for the information and welcome to the
conference.

Date: 03-13-87 (14:11)              Number: 250
  To: CARL VOELZ                    Refer#: 247
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: TONER CARTRIDGES              Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Carl - as we've established in prior messages, only blue and brown color
cartridges are available, unless you have other info (in fact, HP told
me they only sell brown themselves)

Date: 03-13-87 (23:10)              Number: 251
  To: ALL                           Refer#: NONE
From: KEITH VANRYN                    Read: (N/A)
Subj: HP LASERJET PLUS II           Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

I Just wanted all of you to know, that I am a new user, and have just
purchased one of the new HP Laserjet II's.  It is quite a bit "blacker"
in it's print quality, and is similar to the RICOH engine, even though
it is still a CANON engine.  I'm impressed so far...and I don't impress
easily.  Thanks for all the info on the Ventura/Pagemaker war.  You all
helped to settle it for me....Ventura it will be.  Question??  What have
you all found to be the best utility program for the HP.  Have any of
you tried PRINTWORKS for the Laser?  How much are the Softcraft Fonts,
and how good is the resolution??  Any help would be greatly appreciated.
By the way, does anybody have a good source (reasonable) for HP Laser
font cartridges??  Thanks for your help.  I can use some down here in
sunny Florida.

Date: 03-14-87 (00:09)              Number: 252
  To: KEITH VANRYN                  Refer#: 251
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJET PLUS II           Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

I haven't actually looked at either Pagemaker or Ventura myself either
but have about come to the same conclusion from the debate that you
have, i.e., Ventura is the way to go (but plan to invest some time
learning it)...Peter Norton devoted column to Ventura in latest PC Week
magazine (March 10) and he likes it.

Date: 03-14-87 (00:12)              Number: 253
  To: KEITH VANRYN                  Refer#: 251
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJET PLUS II           Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

I heard a rumor that Laserjet II would not except existing Laserjet
cartridges...I can't believe HP would be dumb enough to make Laserjet II
incompatable but could you confirm whether old cartridges still work/fit
in Laserjet II?

Date: 03-14-87 (00:21)              Number: 254
  To: KEITH VANRYN                  Refer#: 251
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJET PLUS II           Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

To try and answer some of your questions:
1) All of the public domain utility programs that I have been able to
find on boards around the country are in directory 22 in this
conference.  That was one of the most important reasons for starting the
conference (to have one place in the country to look for laserjet files,
as well as messages).
2) LASJT44.ARC is Guy Gallo's latest version of the Laserjet resident
utility and that is excellent.
3) For printing IBM ascii screen graphics characters without a special
font cartridge, HPGRAPH is super!
4) If you have a cartridge with compressed print (16.66 char/inch), the
program LJ2UP is a really neat way to print manuals and documentation.

Date: 03-14-87 (07:33)              Number: 255
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: 253
From: KEITH VANRYN                    Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJET PLUS II           Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Yes Marty I can.  The new printer does indeed use the same cartridges
and softfonts.  The only difference that I can see is print quality.
The other difference is it uses a different toner cartridge, which may
have been what you meant.....yes, it does.  Same price though.  It also
yields more prints than the old toner cartridge.  Hope this is of some
help.  Thanks for your comments regarding Ventura.

Date: 03-14-87 (13:55)              Number: 256
  To: KENN FLEE                     Refer#: NONE
From: CARTER LUSHER                   Read: YES
Subj: VENTURRA                      Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Here is a test situation for Ventura.

Several pages, each with approx 4 font changes and 3 or 4 small to
medium graphics.

What I would interested in is how long it takes to print.

Thanks!
                   ::cjl::

Date: 03-14-87 (17:24)              Number: 257
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: 249
From: CARL VOELZ                      Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Anyone that wants the stuff can have it for the cost of the disk,
cardboard mailing box, and postage, $2.  But it is only usefult to
people using SoftCraft's LaserFonts, the FinalWord II word processor,
and an HPHP LaserJet+, LaserJet 500+ or compatible.  I'll have to talk
to anyone who wants the stuff because I have not written any
documentation.  However, if you know how to select a subset of
LaserFonts, the interconnecting of the downloaded fonts and Final
Word II is automatically controlled by the execution of a batch file
(except for a one-time printer definition the first time you use the
programs.)  You can subsequently switch between sets of fonts, say one
for printing ad copy and another set for printing a technical manual.

I can include the principal execution code, written in MS Pascal, but I
cannot include the source for about thirty parsing subroutines because
they are part of a commercial product I flog, and legal questions
regarding copyrighted material vs trade secret material would raise
their ugly head;  I can, however, include the linkable object code for
the parsing subroutines so, if you want to modify the provided source
code, you can.  --  Anybody's welcome to this stuff.

I routinely print a 140 page tech manual with many fonts (bold, italic,
different point sizes) on each page.  (You can get too carried away with
this stuff--the result can be too busy looking, cluttered, and downright
garish!)  The printer runs at it max speed of about 8 pages per minute.

For further information, call afternoons; 244--3331.

Date: 03-14-87 (17:36)              Number: 258
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: 250
From: CARL VOELZ                      Read: YES
Subj: TONER CARTRIDGES              Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

You are absolutely right!!!  And I am sorry.  I've been trying for two
days to get on this board to correct the incorrect message I left.  I
only use black myself.  However, at one time I was thinking of flogging
the product mentioned in the previous message, HP offered to list me as
an approved vendor, I got on their mailing list, and my mailbox has been
stuffed ever since!  Amongst the mailings was an announcement regarding
color cartridges THAT I DID NOT READ CAREFULLY.  The cartridges they
referred to were for Ink Jet printers.  I'll be more careful when
leaving messages in the future; sorry.  Punch out my slots... twist my
ribbon cable...  dirty my dip switches...

Date: 03-14-87 (19:02)              Number: 259
  To: KEITH VANRYN                  Refer#: 255
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJET PLUS II           Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Sounds like I better start hussling up some $ for the new Laserjet!  It
sounds like a really nice printer.  The 'Grayness" of the print on the
old laserjet has been a criticism of it but sounds now like it might get
the same black print as the Quad Laser.

Date: 03-15-87 (22:48)              Number: 260
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: 228
From: RICK BARNETT                    Read: YES
Subj: NEW LASERJET PRINTERS         Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Marty, currently available colors for CANON EP toners in brown (blah),
red and blue from TLC subsidiary of QMS in Mobile Alabama.  I don't have
number here but can find on 800 directory assistance.

Date: 03-15-87 (22:56)              Number: 261
  To: KENN FLEE                     Refer#: 236
From: RICK BARNETT                    Read: YES
Subj: VENTURA                       Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Ken, it is certainly doing my poor ole retail heart good to find another
real person who refuses to be taken in by APPLE/ADOBE propagandizing.
Who in their sensible mind wants a potential 8ppm laser wasting 20-30
minutes to print a page that will take (at the max) 6 minutes/page using
HP driver on Ventura.
Rick

Date: 03-15-87 (23:00)              Number: 262
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: 234
From: RICK BARNETT                    Read: YES
Subj: NEW LASERJET PRINTERS         Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Marty, I ran across an interesting development at HANNOVER CeBIT Fair
recently.  A product of a colored foil paper manufacturer in England
that allows you to sandwich your laser (or copier as toner on the page
is required) between foil color and mechanism (sells for $1000) re-melts
toner and applies color from overlay foil sheet onto toner covered
areas.  If you will call me business hrs at the store [phone], I
may be convinced to send you or any other interested partties a sample.
 We saw the potential and now have exclusive distribution rights in Wash
DC area.
rick

Date: 03-15-87 (23:35)              Number: 263
  To: RICK BARNETT                  Refer#: 260
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: NO
Subj: NEW LASERJET PRINTERS         Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

If you find the number where we can get colored toner cartridges (or
just other than HP suppliers for black cartridges for Laserjet), please
leave a public message here - I think a lot of Conf callers will be
interested.

Date: 03-15-87 (23:38)              Number: 264
  To: RICK BARNETT                  Refer#: 262
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: NO
Subj: NEW LASERJET PRINTERS         Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

$1000 sounds a little expensive just to add color capability to existing
laserjet output.  I couldn't tell from your message whether this means
one color per sheet or multiple colors.  And can you blend colors to
increase the total number available?

Date: 03-16-87 (00:21)              Number: 265
  To: CARTER LUSHER                 Refer#: 256
From: KENN FLEE                       Read: YES
Subj: VENTURRA                      Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

I'll give it a try and let you know...   -Kenn-

Date: 03-16-87 (00:27)              Number: 266
  To: RICK BARNETT                  Refer#: 261
From: KENN FLEE                       Read: NO
Subj: VENTURA                       Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Amen to that.   I sometimes have to justify my "sitting, doing nothing"
while the da*n LaserWriter is doing it's thing.  I've learned to make
all changes to a single page one after another, cause the second pass is
ALWAYS faster than the first.  But boy, if you have a bunch of fonts and
sizes and some graphics thrown in for good measure, it really isn't
uncommon for the LaserWriter/Mac combo to spend from 4 to 20 minutes or
more printing out one dumb page.   -Kenn-


Date: 03-16-87 (11:22)              Number: 268
  To: KEITH VANRYN                  Refer#: 251
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJET PLUS II           Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Look up Softcraft in the magazines, give them a call, and they will send
you a complete set of hype on the Laserfonts that was actually printed
with it.  I have been highly impressed.  Also, they are beta testing
laserfonts in landscape mode and I'll be able to tell you more about in
a week or so.
----Dan----

Date: 03-16-87 (11:27)              Number: 269
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: NONE
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: COLOR                         Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

I saw the Calcomp thermal transfer raster device working at Autofact in
late 85 and was impressed.  Don't know about resolution but it did a
heck of a job on them charts.....Anyone know about that thing...
----Dan----

Date: 03-16-87 (21:41)              Number: 270
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: NONE
From: JOHN LEDERER                    Read: YES
Subj: LJJAMS                        Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

I suspect that the major cause of our jamming problem is the bond
letterhead with engraved lettering (we have used many many different
types of engraving with varying success--generally the flatter the
better, but many types seem to cause the sheets to adhere slightly and
that seems to cause the jams.  None of it has been heavily embosse·╓d or
highly ra°─ised ( I don*'t think it is true engraving )


Date: 03-16-87 (21:59)              Number: 273
  To: DAN MOORE                     Refer#: 268
From: KEITH VANRYN                    Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJET PLUS II           Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Hey Dan,  Thanks for the info on Softcraft.  I gave them a call and they
sent me a bunch of literature on their softfonts.  They have a new Soft-
Font Editor (about $200) that lets you create your own fonts.  I'll
probably start by getting Laserfonts, and go from there.  Thanks for the
help, this new laser user really appreciates it!!

Date: 03-16-87 (22:01)              Number: 274
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: 259
From: KEITH VANRYN                    Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJET PLUS II           Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Yep Marty, you better save those shekels.  The print quality so far has
been outstanding.  The quality to me is comparable to the Ricoh engine.
Try and get a look at one somewhere, you'll see the difference. Keith!

Date: 03-17-87 (01:49)              Number: 275
  To: KEITH VANRYN                  Refer#: 251
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJET PLUS II           Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Regarding the commercial software package Printworks for Laser
We have had it for about a year but have never  really used it.
The file in Directory 22 called LASJT44.ARC is the latest
shareware version of the Laserjet utility from Guy Gallo and,
in my opinion, is much better than Printworks for Laser an does
about the sme thing.  Printworks can make the Laserjet emulate
an Epson printer (or IBM graphics printer) but who needs that
anymore!
Another problem with Printworks is that running it puts its own
graphics screen printer in CONFIG.SYS and then all of your
graphics screen prints have to be done through Printworks.  If
you try to print graphics to the Laserjet with another
commercial package, you just get garbage and try and figure out
why! Printworks will also supposedly allow you to download soft
fonts but you can also do that with PCLPAK from Hewlett
Packard, Laserfonts from SoftCraft, or just with the DOS
COPY /B instruction.

Date: 03-17-87 (04:15)              Number: 276
  To: ALL                           Refer#: NONE
From: CARL VOELZ                      Read: (N/A)
Subj: LASERRAM (??)                 Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Some time back I remember reading about an add on memory board having a
name something like LaserRam from a company with "Tall" in their name.
I looked through a couple of recent publications for ad from Tall Grass
and Tall Tree but did not see anything that looked like this board.
What this board did was allow you to download LJ fonts AND output for
the LJ to the board, rather than to the LJ itself.  The board was
connected through some sort of internal "field testing" cable connector,
not the standard external cable connectors.  The purpose of the device
was not only to speed up the font downloading process (a couple of the
font sets I routinely download contain 5 point sizes for each of two
regular fonts, and each of these also has an italic and bold component,
resulting in 30 font definitions or about 380K being downloaded--takes 8
minutes to start up the system.)  This board also does a transfer, say
of graphics stuff, at DMA memory to memory transfer speed, not the (I
guess I remember) 9600 baud used for parallel transfer.  The board had
around a megabyte installed and its cost was around a kilobuck.  --
Does anybody recall such a product or, better yet, have one or something
similar? <<<  >>> After rereading the above, I did not make it clear
that the board installs in the PC and is connected to the LJ via an
existing but nonstandard coupling/connector inside the LJ that is used
for (was designed for) some other purpose.  Thanks...

Date: 03-17-87 (05:47)              Number: 277
  To: RICK BARNETT                  Refer#: 220
From: BOB FLORES                      Read: NO
Subj: VENTURA PUBLISHING            Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

I have to agree with Rick.  I've used both.  While I like the PC version
of PAGEMAKER much better than the MAC version, Ventura Publisher is the
better product.  I, however, am convinced that WINDOWS is the way of the
future, and really wish VP would run under it.

Date: 03-17-87 (06:16)              Number: 278
  To: CARL VOELZ                    Refer#: 276
From: STEPHEN PECKICONIS              Read: NO
Subj: LASERRAM (??)                 Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

The board you are referring to is the JLaser.  It is available as a
daughterboard to Tall Tree's JRAM line of 2MB RAM cards, which can also
do EMS.  They have been available for a while now.  Tall Tree advertises
this item pretty selectively.  If I remember right, you might fd some
good pictures in magazines from last November.  One mail order company,
RAM Explosion, has been selling the JLaser in combo with the QMS KISS
printer for around $2500-2600 for a few months.

Date: 03-17-87 (06:23)              Number: 279
  To: ALL                           Refer#: NONE
From: STEPHEN PECKICONIS              Read: (N/A)
Subj: LARGE BIN, FAST LASER REC     Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

I am looking for a recommendation on a Laser that has good paper
handling capabilities.  The price range is up to $5,000 and what I would
like is something with with ability to handle at least 250 sheets input
or more.  Speed would also be nice, say 10 ppm if possible.  I have seen
that the QuadLaser will handle 250 sheets.  Is there anything
bigger/better that is still under $5,000 discounted.  I have one client
who has a CIE LIPS 10, 10ppm.  What do people think of it?
.
Also, for doing some good slide work with Harvard Presentation Graphics,
what would people recommend.  Must do 300 dpi full-page.  The new HP LJ
II looks like a cheap choice here.  How would you go about deciding
whether to get 1MB, 2MB, 4MB, knowing you may have to punt the smaller
upgrades if you need more memory later?  What is the optimum price/perf
selection for a medium-volum 300 dpi application like above when
combined with heavy word-processing?

Date: 03-17-87 (08:15)              Number: 280
  To: JOHN LEDERER                  Refer#: 270
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: NO
Subj: LJJAMS                        Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

I am glad you brought that up.....we did switch from engraved to printed
bond letterhead and never had an LJ jam with it.
----Dan----


Date: 03-17-87 (08:28)              Number: 283
  To: KEITH VANRYN                  Refer#: 273
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJET PLUS II           Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

Sure glad I could help.....they are now testing the laserfonts in
landscape mode...quality is excellent and price performance is hard to
beat compared to others.  If you use MS Word, then it is a fantastic
combination.
----Dan----

Date: 03-17-87 (08:30)              Number: 284
  To: CARL VOELZ                    Refer#: 276
From: DAN MOORE                       Read: NO
Subj: LASERRAM (??)                 Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

JLASER from Tall Tree Systems.  The name is all I ow and I appreciate
the good stuff you had to say....sounds worth investigating.
----Dan----

Date: 03-17-87 (11:18)              Number: 285
  To: ALL                           Refer#: NONE
From: MAURICE THALER                  Read: (N/A)
Subj: VENTURA W/ WINDOWS            Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

I read in infoworld yesterday that Ventura is planning to release a
version of their product that will run under Windows. Sounds like a
mixed blessing to me. It will be compatable and slower probably.

Date: 03-17-87 (11:22)              Number: 286
  To: ALL                           Refer#: NONE
From: MAURICE THALER                  Read: (N/A)
Subj: VENTURA KERNING               Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

I am researching Ventura for some advertising friends of mine who want
to use it as a front end to send type to either a CompuGraphics or
Linotype typesetting machine.  The question is :  according to the
arcticle I read in InfoWorld last week, version 1.1 of Ventura supports
kerning, does it work with specific fonts  ?  As I understand it, each
font has different spacing for EACH letter, and the kerning if done
properly, will adjust for that specific font. So it would look differnet
if you chose TimeRoman12  versus Gothic12 . Am I close ?  What is the
story on this?

Date: 03-17-87 (11:28)              Number: 287
  To: ALL                           Refer#: NONE
From: MAURICE THALER                  Read: (N/A)
Subj: PAGE ORIENTED MONITORS        Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

It seems like this is really a Desktop conference even though it is
LASER by name, so......
Does anybody out there have experience with the different PAGE oriented
monitors available? I went to the Electronic Publishing conference in
Chicago a couple weeks back and saw the Genius monitor as well as a
couple other ones and could not at a brief glance determine which was
the HOT one to get. Is one more cost effective ?  Does anybody have one
I could look at in town here ? I am sure that we have some people that
are ready to set me straight on these simple questions I have.

Date: 03-17-87 (14:12)              Number: 288
  To: MARTY SHANNON                 Refer#: 1
From: RICK SEAVEY                     Read: YES
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

I currently have access to 2 HP LaserJets and 1 HP LaserJet+.  I'd be
very interested in any action that will help me get more out of these
guys.                                                    -Rick Seavey

Date: 03-17-87 (14:50)              Number: 289
  To: RICK SEAVEY                   Refer#: 288
From: MARTY SHANNON                   Read: NO
Subj: HP LASERJETS                  Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE

In general you can get a lot more action out of the Laserjet+ than from
the basic Laserjet, which prints text very well but that's about it.
What kind of "action" did you have in mind for your Laserjets?