animal rights


NrrdGrrl! Discussion Forum: Vent: animal rights
By Cassie on Sunday, July 26, 1998 - 10:17 pm:

I *hate* it when people say how they love animals, and how you shouldn't wear fur, and then eat meat! If you love animals, you are not going to want to eat the dead flesh of one.


By Webmistress on Monday, July 27, 1998 - 02:53 pm:

I love vegetables, too. I think they are very beautiful. However, I eat those, too. In order for something to live, something must die. It is the way of nature. I'm sure lions love gazelles, too. They have to eat them, too to survive. My cat loves me. However, if she was starving I wouldn't doubt that she'd take a crack on gnawing on me.

Wearing the pelts? Heck, why throw that away if the meat is going to be eaten, anyway? Why be wasteful? Wastefulness is the #1 reason why the environment is so messed up.

The circle of life, love - it's there. A big part of keeping in that circle is respecting the life you are taking (be it animal or vegetable) in order to live.


By Cassie on Monday, July 27, 1998 - 04:40 pm:

On wearing the pelts- usually they don't just use the animals that are already being eaten for fur. Most of the time, they go out of their way to kill a desirable animal just for the fur. They end an animals life for fashion.
Also, even if I did agree with eating animals for food, I would *not* agree with the treatment the animals are given before they die. They aren't fed right, often malnutritioned to make the meat more tender, and they die in cruel, painful ways.
That's just my opinion, no one else has to agree


By Webmistress on Tuesday, July 28, 1998 - 10:41 am:

Cassie:
I agree. It's kind of silly to raise the animals just for their fur, and then throw the rest out. Plus, I think fur looks really fucking tacky. All I can think of when I see a fur is that it probably looked better on the animal than the bimbo where it now resides.

And people aren't treated right before they die, either. Many aren't fed right and die of malnutrition. Many are killed for the color of their skin, or their beliefs, or because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Many are put in a cage and kept there because they weren't raised in the right environment and uneducated. Some are electrocuted.

There are many atrocities in the world. I guess it all depends on what you wish to tackle.


By Katie on Tuesday, July 28, 1998 - 02:20 pm:

Eating meat is part of the circle of life, but I can't really justify to myself wearing leather, even though I do it. When I sit here and think about leather belts and shoes..can't we just live without it and make them out of something synthetic? Do they use dead meat cows for accessories? It seems wasteful to me, but I still do it.


By Rhiannon on Tuesday, July 28, 1998 - 04:37 pm:

I don't eat meat, but that is just because I personally do not feel comfortable with it. I do not think that evryone should do it because then the circle of life will be fucked up. The point is that most fur coats aren't made from spare fur taken from animals already killed for food, they're usually hunted seperately. What I desparetly disagree with is elephants being killed for their ivory to make ORNAMENTS. Killing Tigers for medicine is not so bad because in the long run, I hate to say this but, Humans were made at a higher authority than animals and animals were made to serve humans. But I only believe that that theory counts when it comes to saving lives and not for ornamental or furnishing reasons etc.


By Anonymous on Thursday, July 30, 1998 - 11:30 am:

I think we should do all we can for the animals. I don't eat meat, wear fur and avoid products tested on animals.


By Anonymous on Friday, July 31, 1998 - 11:38 am:

Maybe eating meat is a part of life,maybe it isn't. Who can say? I think it isn't. And I'm vegan.
And even when we humen are "supposed" to eat meat, we HAVE to consider the bio-industrie.
Because you all want to eat meat, animals have to suffer everyday.
Because we eat meat thousands of people are hungry in the third world.
Let me explain:
Big western multinationals (McDonalds) buy land in third world countries. THey chop down rainforests so cattle can be bred there.
On other pieces of land the natives grow food. That food gets transported to western countries. There pigs, cows and chickens eat this food in order to get fat and we can eat it.
But shouldn't the people who grow this food also EAT it????
one cow uses thousands of litres of water in a lifetime. IN OTHER COUNTRIES THERE IS A WATER SHOTAGE??????
If we would all go on a vegetarian diet NOBODY WOULD BE HUNGRY.
But.............you are all just selfish.


By Shampoo on Friday, July 31, 1998 - 09:22 pm:

Anonymous, dont you think you're being a little melodramatic? The worlds problems aren't caused by hamburgers. Cows are part of the life cycle, and humans do belong to the food chain. Things should work like this: humans eat animals which eat other animals which eat other animals which eat other animals, but no animal really eats humans (sometimes they do), but then humans die or get killed by other humans. That's how things were in the beginning. If we stopped eating meat, then cows would rule the earth... or something.

So what are you saying? That cows should all be killed off so that other lands can have water? Sorry, it doesn't work that way. There's a lot of water in the world, I'm sure we can solve that problem and still have our meatloaf.

I agree that big corporations should stop doing what they do to make money, but I don't think that if they stopped raising cattle that the third world countries would all of a sudden have enough to eat. If mcdonalds went out of business, the cows would go with it.

So you should calm down a little and stop blaming the worlds problems on us meat eaters. The only problem I have with meat is that some people eat too much of it, which isn't healthy.


By Keridwyn on Friday, July 31, 1998 - 10:05 pm:

Actually, Shampoo...

Yes, meat consumption is a cause to environmental disasters and hunger in parts of the world.
As an environmental engineering student, I can confirm that what anon is saying is true.

I only disagree with the "you are all just selfish" line... most people do not know half of the problems caused by cattle raising, and meat consumption could probably remain if only people became well educated about it. It would more than likely reduce world consumption to a "safe" level.

Keri


By Laurel on Sunday, August 2, 1998 - 05:14 pm:

I have to disagree with the statement that "if we would all go on a vegetarian diet nobody would be hungry. It is not that simple. Some countries (like Sudan) are starving because of droughts and/or because rebel fighters in those areas take all the food for themselves. How is my being a vegetarian going to help there?


By Keridwyn on Tuesday, August 4, 1998 - 12:16 pm:

Indeed, Laurel, it's not that simple, and you are right -- should everyone go veg, it would not mean the disappearance of world hunger. However, it would help a GREAT deal, if only people lowered their consumption of meat. Notice I say lower consumption, not end it. It would benefit us all.

Africa is quite a peculiarity. It's a climate and civil war fighting mix, as you said. But many other places would benefit endlessly from a reduction in cattle.

I would like to recommend an excellent book to all interested in the subject. It's titled Beyond Beef: The Rise and Fall of the Cattle Culture, by Jeremy Rifkin. Worth checking it out.


By Shampoo on Tuesday, August 4, 1998 - 12:27 pm:

But there's a difference between a mcdonalds hamburger and a steak you bought from a local cow!


By Webmistress on Friday, August 7, 1998 - 01:11 pm:

Keri -

I was a vegetarian philosophy student. I was taught that many of the world's problems with hunger would go away if the majority of the population were vegetarian. The argument went like this:

The amount of grain necessary to feed a cow until it is slaughtered would feed a family for, say, a year (estimated).

Not raising as many cattle for slaughter would free up tons of land to raise grain for starving humans.

However, what is overlooked is that developed nations such as America already have surplusses even though the vegetarian population is relatively small. We're going on the assumption here that farmers will just give grain away to starving people. It doesn't work that way. I was raised in the Midwest, and went to college in a farming community. There are thousands of farmers that throw away tons upon tons of grain every season. Silos go up like gangbusters all the time because the corn has turned to ethanol.

In a vacuum, your line of thinking works. However, we do not live in a generous society.


By Keridwyn on Monday, August 31, 1998 - 08:40 pm:

Webmistress,

It IS more complicated than the thought. What I posted says a tiny fraction of the whole idea. I can't post the whole thing, that's why I suggested the book. Read it if you would like to know more, and you'll understand.

Ker


By Anonymous on Tuesday, September 1, 1998 - 08:14 pm:

I don't really want to seem cruel, but we need cows if what Webmistress says is true ,because if everybody is fed and healthy the world will over populate. If this happens disease will spread and many people will die.


By Rhiannon on Wednesday, September 9, 1998 - 05:04 pm:

By the way, I couldn't STAND being vege anymore, in every restaurant during the holidays the only vege alternatives were cheese omletes, and I hate cheese and I hate omletes, and all the meat dishes sounded soooooo nice. I still love animals.


By Rebecca on Tuesday, November 3, 1998 - 01:34 am:

Just one question- is it worth it for an animal to lose its WHOLE LIFE and CONSCIOUSNESS so you can have one worthless meal when you could be eating nachos or burritos or potatos or vegetables?!!!!! If you are truly intelligent and thoughtful, you will know that the answer is a resounding- NO!!! J


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