To get people talking...


NrrdGrrl! Discussion Forum: Vent: To get people talking...
By Star on Saturday, July 11, 1998 - 12:57 pm:

Nobody seems to be talking about anything, so I decided to put a controversial topic on here for discussion, etc. I'm just trying to think what it should be... Hmmmmm....

Here' one possibility:

If you were pregnant right now, what would you do? Abortion, Adoption, keep it, try to stay with father, get married, stay with parents, what?

And another.

Congress recently tried to pass a bill that would allow religious activities in school, just as long as no one would be forced to participate. Like Mrs. Lingle's class every morning would say "Are Father Who Art in Heaven..." or something like that and if someone didn't want to partcipate they don't have to. (ie: sitting in the hall.)

What do we think of these?

Let's get going grrlies...Nobody has been talking here.

*Star*


By Webmistress on Saturday, July 11, 1998 - 11:36 pm:

**
If you were pregnant right now, what would you do? Abortion, Adoption, keep it, try to stay with father, get married, stay with parents, what?
**

Right now? I'd have to put it up for adoption. Abortions are expensive, and I don't know if I'd have the heart to do it. I'm a financial mess right now, so I wouldn't be able to support a child. Stay with father? Maybe if he wasn't creepy. I've had sex with people that wouldn't make fit fathers, so why stay with them for the sake of a father?

**
Congress recently tried to pass a bill that would allow religious activities in school, just as long as no one would be forced to participate. Like Mrs. Lingle's class every morning would say "Are Father Who Art in Heaven..." or something like that and if someone didn't want to partcipate they don't have to. (ie: sitting in the hall.)
**

While we're at it, why don't we make Islam our national favorite religion? Muslims do not separate church and state, either. I remember, way back in the day, when the government swore to keep religion out of politics. I think it was because our forefathers had a bad experience with being repressed because of their religious beliefs. They were understandably paranoid about having their beliefs trampled again.

I see a viscious circle forming with these sorts of dilemmas. America is turning into the very thing they didn't want to be - England.

Hope this gets the conversational juices flowing!!!


By Pissed off on Sunday, July 12, 1998 - 06:23 am:

Hey! What are you talking about you nationalistic bitch? England kicks arse and you'd better face it. Since when was religion anything to do with our politics? If you wanna make comments like that you'd better remember that without us America would never have existed considering basically all your ancestors (if you're caucasian) are Irish or English etc.. So piss off and keep your views to yourself. It's not only Americans on-line ya know.


By Marsha on Sunday, July 12, 1998 - 03:23 pm:

If we kept our views to ourselves this web site would not have formed. If I was pregnant right now I would have an abortion. I thought I was a few monthes ago and my freind looked into it for me and she said planned parenthood would do it practically for free because of my age (13). I would be pretty sad considering what I killed would be a part of me and (at the time) the man I loved. But consider the options. I would ruin any childhood I might have left taking care of it. My parents would get a restraining order or whatever and make it illegal to see my boyfreind. The baby itself would probably have a terrible life knowing it was a mistake. Believe me I know plenty of people like that. Many of whom I love very much. As for the religious thing I think that is disgusting because there is already way to much religious pressure. Do we really need it in schools?
XOXO
MARSHA


By Webmistress on Sunday, July 12, 1998 - 04:27 pm:

Pissed off said:
"So piss off and keep your views to yourself."

This is exactly the type of thing I'm talking about. No, I'm NOT going to keep my views to myself, I will make myself heard. That's what America is supposed to be about. So bullocks to you!

And I didn't mean to insult England. I meant the England way back when they were much more repressive. From what I've seen, England is much more laid back now than America. So chill out!


By Laurel on Sunday, July 12, 1998 - 06:29 pm:

If I were pregnant I would give the baby up for adoption. Because I don't want a baby at this time in my life, but I know someone out there really does want one and could give my baby a better life than I could.

As far as religion in school, I don't approve of it. It's okay to teach things about it in a class like art or history, but religious activities are not a good idea. I think this could confuse people if they were taught one religion at home and then encouraged to practice a different one at school. My school used to say the Lord's Prayer but they stopped for these reasons. Now we only have O Canada in the morning.


By Mandy on Monday, July 13, 1998 - 12:20 am:

I won't comment on the "If you were pregnant right now, what would you do? Abortion, Adoption, keep it, try to stay with father, get married, stay with parents, what?", question. I'm partial to boths sides because I can always find some reason to support it. And if I were to decided one over the other now I know for a fact that I would turn a hypocrite in the end. i can't although at times wish I could predict my future, so that question for me is like on of those unspeakable taboos. Not because of the topic just because I am so undecided. incessant inertia...

I've always went to a Roman Catholic girls school, and we always were to say Hail Mary. Then when I switched to a co-ed public school, I was asked to change to the common Our Father. I did it easily, it was no skin off my knees, because religion to me is nothing to make a fuss over. This year our high school is religion free, or it is by choice. If you want to do religion or just want to pick up an eazy credit for uni. then religion is your best bet, but its not forced on you like it had been in the previous year when it was a needed credit and not an elective.

blah blah..i'm not to strong on religious talk. My point really is just that like most other things i don't think religion should be shoved down your troat and made to swollow like some horriable tasting medicine. Cause even with a "spoonful of sugar" if you don't believe your not going to want to consume it. Religion should be kept a personal thing. Or so I think. blah...wasteful


By Endora (formerly known as Lee) on Monday, July 13, 1998 - 10:25 pm:

Pissed Off,

As a third generation American, I find it interesting that you ask "Since when has religion anything to do with our politics?" in the same post that you tell us, "you'd better remember that without us America would never have existed considering basically all your ancestors (if you're caucasian) are Irish or English etc."

Does that etc. include just Scotland & Wales, or does it include all of Europe? Not all "caucasians" here have Irish/English roots. Quite a few "caucasians" have Italian, Russian, etc. roots.

My family's background is Irish (Catholic), Scottish (Catholic), Welsh (Anglican) & French (Jewish). Historically, England's politics have had quite a bit to do w/religion, especially in relation to other countries. At one point, my ancestors couldn't own property in Ireland because of their religion.

The resulting poverty from these policies drove a lot of people to immigrate. These ships weren't exactly the QE2. If you want to learn more about the conditions people had to tolerate (that is if they were lucky enough to survive), I'd suggest the short story, "Ship Fever" (in a collection by the same name) by Andrea Barrett. It deals with the quarantine station on Grosse Isle in Canada during the famine years.

While things have improved in the religion/politics area, there's still a lot of fallout from those policies. One need only to look at the headlines in Northern Ireland to confirm that. To say there's a lot of senseless violence on both sides is an understatement.

Not that I'm saying the United States is blameless. We're dealing with our own fallout here from past policies/ideologies.

For the record, I'm not anti-English. I worked for the NY office of an English firm for two years. My counterparts in London & I regularly worked together via phone & e-mail & we got to know each others' weekend & vacation/holiday plans, pets' names, favorite movie stars, etc. We would e-mail each other jokes & comics at the end of our work messages.


By Fa on Wednesday, July 15, 1998 - 01:52 pm:

okay, i have a few thinks to say:
firstly, Pissed Off: I'm Irish, and i really think that Webmistress was right. I know Ireland is a bit worse htan england religion-wise, but the same principle goes for both, and religion still opresses a lot of people here. Most of my friends are either athiests or agnostics, and we're stil forced to go to religion class in school, go to mass on sundays, etcetc. Also here the constitution and stuff is seriously influenced by religion (i.e. no abortion, and htere was no divorce either until a few years ago.). I know America's not exactly perfect (and don't worry, i have a lot of problems with the place!!!!!), but at least in that aspect it's much better than this part of the world.

About that pregnancy thing- i'd definately have an abortion. I know it seems an awful thing to do, but to do anything else would ruin two people's lives.

Well, that's all i think!
ífa


By Ultraviolet on Friday, July 17, 1998 - 08:39 pm:

Debate #1: I would get an abortion. I do not like the idea of killing life, but who knows who you're giving your child to when giving it up for abortion? Besides, I'm sure it's harder to give your child away once it's born than to abort it when it's a fetus. And if I kept the child when deep down, I knew I didn't want it, it would probably have a horrible childhood.

Debate #2: Prayer in school would no doubt cause segregation among children. People would start talking about the kid who stands out in the hall while everyone else is saying their prayers, and the kid would be instantly labeled as different, rebellious, or even 'bad', depending on how the other kids were brought up.


By Endora on Sunday, July 19, 1998 - 06:32 pm:

Ultraviolet,

Good point. It would be like sex education. When I was in junior high (ages 11-14) they'd send home a permission slip to allow you in the class. If your parents didn't sign, you had to leave the classroom during sex-ed. We had one kid in my class who's mom wouldn't sign. He had to leave the class every week while we'd all watch some film about menstruation or whatever. He was labelled as different, etc. & that's not right. As one of the teachers pointed out, he probably needed it more than anyone else, because they probably weren't talking about it w/him at home


By Marilyn M. on Sunday, July 19, 1998 - 07:37 pm:

wow !!!! webmistress and PIssed off what have you started??? a mass on-line bitch fight???
Now while maybe webmistress should have thought before she put it quite so bluntly she does have a point, England doesn't have a very democratic colonial past , now does it "pissed off"???
No, England was -the- colonial power "way back when" and she was not very democratic about her taming of the "savages" she found .Nah, just packed them off in slave ships to their new owners that or forced them to work their land for colonial gain.Then when the savages wnted their countries back the English kindly gave them back THREE HUNDRED YEARS LATER and left them to it .These people had no idea how to run a country ,lead their own lives all the ENglish left them was a road from the resource e.g tin, to the port which the english had kindly built them. Needless to say these countries descended into civil war et.c and the rest as they say is history!!!


By Not-as pissed off on Tuesday, July 21, 1998 - 11:39 am:

OK, so I get everyones points, but I'm talking now, not 100 years ago. Also, you all have rights to air your veiws and everything but I've always thought it was better to also be tactful and not hurt others. Anyway... Maybe I'm just lucky enough not to have had religion shoved down my throat, but even so I've chosen to become atheist - maybe this is partialy due to the fact that I wasn't taught about religion as much as others. However, most private schools in England have to go to chapel or church at least on sundays. I don't find this particulaly surprising because it is, afterall, the countrey's faith. That's the way it is. Because I accept other religions even though i don't practise them myself, this doesn't bother me.


By Caileen on Thursday, July 23, 1998 - 05:45 pm:

About the baby thing, that did happed to me about 10 months ago now when i was 17, and i think i'm pretty lucky how things have turned out. For me abortion never was even an option, because even though the time was far from right and definatly not planned, from the moment i found out i was deffinatly pregnant i just felt so happy and broody that i knew i had to keep her, and ever since i can remember i've always seen my self having children some point so it'd have been like kicking a gift horse's mouth and i'd have hated myself for ever if later i'd found out the abortion had stopped me been able to have children.
But any how I was lucky that the father is the most wonderful man, who has looked after me brilliantly, and at 21 has delt with the responsability so well, and is supberb with Caíra. He's at university so we're renting a place near there and in septemberi'll be doing a course there, and they have a creche wich is fortunate. As far as babysitting goes, i've made friends with another young mother, and we help each other out, and Clyde's parents help a lot as well (my parents don't live near, otherwise they would) Money's a bit tight, but we both work, i waitress in the evenings and clyde does deliveries for a friend's company so we manage.
Things have been really scary, and i think my a-level results will have suffered a fair bit, but i'm sure i made the right decision, as i love Caíra to bits, and even after living together in a 3 room flat, clyde and I are still speaking- so that's what i did.
As far as religion goes- i shaln't even go in to that or i'll talk far to long,

Caileen


By Rhiannon on Saturday, July 25, 1998 - 04:17 pm:

Marsha, It's okay to express your views, but you have to make sure they're full-proof first!


By Shampoo on Tuesday, July 28, 1998 - 10:36 pm:

Nuh uh. Pissed Off, I'm with you. I'm not English, I'm Canadian, but do you think that we can just *not* bash other peoples countries here at Nrrdgrrl? If webmistress used *canada* instead of *england*, I'd be pissed, too! And I'm not going to say any more on that because I know I'll end up bashing the US, and that's the kinda stuff I don't want to see here. If you're national or not, everyone has a level of pride in their country, and Pissed was right, it's not just Americans at Nrrdgrrl, and country bashing wont get us anywhere. Even stuff from the past. I don't see anyone bringing up black slave labour or nuclear bombs in the US's past, so how about we just not bring up what happened before because all it's going to do is make us all mad. Okay?

Moving on, If I had a baby I would *not* have an abortion, I would give it up for adoption. That way, the child would have a set of more responsible parents who are ready for it, and the parents, if they can't have children themselves, would get one to love. This is why I can't understand abortion. With abortion and adoption, the outcome is the same, you can go on having your childhood or whatever without a baby. 9 months isn't that much to pay for the life of a child.

About choice religion in schools, I think it's wrong. Because what religion would it be? Probably Christian, which isn't fair, why can't it be Muslim or Buddhism or Sikh? A lot of people will be mad once the religion is chosen for school. And what about those teachers who aren't Christian? Will they go and stand out in the hall, too? School is for education, not worship.


By Anonymous on Friday, July 31, 1998 - 02:13 pm:

1. What is fisting and how is it done? 2. How is oral sex performed? How is it done? 3.
Techniques for masturbation? 4. Where is your 'clit' located and how do you 'play' with it?
please tell


By Jania on Saturday, August 1, 1998 - 04:26 pm:

If tomorrow, I was to wake up and find myself pregnant, I would either keep it or ask for it to be adopted, depending on how my parents and boyfriend reacted and what they thought. Abortion would not be an option at all, because to me it is murder and morally and ethically wrong. There is very little difference between abortion and simply killing the baby as the outcome is the same whichever way - a child has lost the opportunity of life before it has even had the chance to start out, yet abortion is legal and to kill the baby could consequence anything up to life sentence or the death penalty. It amazes me how a society that comes down so hard on child killers can accept abortion. Killing a child is unjustifiable, and to me, so is abortion, whatever the circumstances.

As far as religion in schools goes, I agree with shampoo, religion is a personal and very much individual choice, and it is not school's responsibility to provide and enforce religion. How ever, they should educate children about religion, and teach them to understand and respect beliefs - as I am sure that almost 90% of wars ever must have been on religious ground, directly or indirectly.

Jania


By Laurel on Sunday, August 2, 1998 - 05:10 pm:

I think abortion is OK if the baby is very sick and it is going to die in agony before it is one. I would consider having an abortion under those circumstances. Otherwise I think it is wrong. But if they made it illegal, women would just go and get street abortions like they did many years ago. Probably lots of women would die. At least legal abortion is safe.


By Marsha on Sunday, August 2, 1998 - 08:14 pm:

rhiannon, whatever, there is no way to make your views "foolproof".


By Shampoo on Tuesday, August 4, 1998 - 12:23 pm:

Abortion is just *wrong*, and I hate it when some of those so called feminist women go and do the whole "our bodies our choice thing". According to that reason, it would be *okay* to do drugs, drink, and smoke while you're pregnant, cuz hey! it's our bodies. Once you have a child growing inside you, it does't become *your* body any more, it becomes you and your childs body, and everything you do affects the baby.

Once you're pregnant, you have to stop being selfish and think of the baby. Abortion is so stupid, because there are so many couples out there who want a baby. And so many people will say stuff like "it's better to abort because i wont be able to give it the proper life" or like someone on this forum said "with abortion you don't really know who the baby is going to". these are really pathetic excuses. A life with an adopted family is a *lot* better then death.


By Adee on Tuesday, August 18, 1998 - 05:56 pm:

I understand the point you're trying to get across up there but I don't agree with it. There are so many reasons women get abortions, for instance if I was raped and got pregnant I would have an abortion. You could not tell me that oh well abortion is wrong and you're being selfish. If I kept the baby I would hate it. I would spend the rest of my life resenting it. And I do beleive that it's the womans choice whether she wants to or not. As for the drugs, and drinking, I don't agree with that because they've already decided to have the baby, and it could be born with alot of problems, serious birth defects. Obviously you don't have these problems with an abortion.
I don't believe that it's always for selfish reasons to have an abortion. Sometimes you do have to think about the baby and what kind of life it would have if it was born.(a good one or a bad one)
I agree with Laurel that if they made it illegal women would go out and have it done anyways, and it would be alot less safe than it is nowadays.
Well I guess that's just my two cents. But I did want to add that as a civilization who is supposed to be advanced, we can't sit here and say that whatever choices someone makes are automatically wrong because of guidelines we followed years ago. by the way I was wondering what you all think about the Death Penalty?


By Shampoo on Wednesday, August 19, 1998 - 02:01 am:

but if i was raped i would have the baby and give it up for ADOPTION!!


By Celia Gardner on Thursday, November 5, 1998 - 08:02 am:

As a virgin (sad? Do you think?) I cannot say what I would do if I became pregnant. I do not want children though, so I would either have an abortion (small note about the U.K: you can get free abortions on the N.H.S - but you go on a short waiting list. Which is best?) or have it adopted.

Here's a thought. Who has more rights to life - a pregnant teenage girl who would be giving up her freedom, her non - parenting friends, her money and basically her whole old life if she becomes a mother or a bundle of indeterminate cells which have had no life to lose?

Feel free to insult me if you like.


By Anonymous on Monday, November 9, 1998 - 08:32 pm:

I won't insult you, but the cells are not indeterminate...they're complete, genetically-speaking.

If I was pregnant, I would not kill my baby so I could save my social life and money. It doesn't mean I'd lose my friends, just the ones who are so fake they'd really leave me because I had a kid.


By Celia Gardner on Tuesday, November 10, 1998 - 07:56 am:

Thankyou for not insulting me.

But a baby is VERY hard work, as anyone with a child would tell you. Adoption can also be hard, as it can be painful giving up a child, even if you can't really look after it.

Sometimes, abortion is the easiest option, even with all the moral implications. Sometimes, it's the only way.

That said, you put across a couple of intelligent points and I respect you for that.


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