I am sixteen years old. I don't know what you girls where doing when you were eleven, but when i was eleven, I was riding my bike and doing shit like that. Not shooting my classmates. For those of you who don't know, (though i can't imagine anyone could miss it) I am refering to the two middle school kids, ages thirteen and eleven, who recently went on a well planned shooting spree, killing four students and one teacher during a prank fire drill in Arkansas. I am so upset that I am crying right now. Because those five people who died are someone's sister, someone's best friend, someone's daughter. It upsets me so much that kids in my generation are doing this. I want to have children when I get older, but in the last few days, its just seemed like a cruel thing to do. I'm thinking..is there anything we can do, and organization that deals with this issue? Kids killing kids has been in the news so much in the past few years. There must be something we can do, particularly young people. Any suggestions or thoughts?
There needs to be a joint effort between parents, the community & schools to EDUCATE our children. Education is a disgrace in this day and age. ( All the overcrowding doesnt help either.) It is sad that people dont have enough time to spend with their children, their students or their neighborhood children. When I was growing up (not very long ago, I am 27) I remember my parents, teachers, neighbors being there for me in every way. Most kids don't have that anymore. One thing that would really help, IN MY OPINION, is for people to STAY HOME WITH THEIR CHILDREN! If you dont have to work, stay home. So what if you dont drive a BMW and have a new home? And if you have kids, stop leaving them with the BABYSITTER! Your kids need you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kids need adults around them, whether it's parents, teachers, etc. A friend of mine was a substitute teacher a few years ago. One student was acting out a lot, but she came to trust him & started telling him about her weekends, which involved parties w/cocaine, etc. at her & her friend's families' vacation home. He tried to meet w/her parents, but the professionals were too "busy" to do so, even though he was willing to meet them anytime they wanted (even on his own free, not paid for time). He wasn't being paid much more than minimum wage, but he cared more about the girl than her parents.
me again. Tomorrow Oprah is doing a show on the subject.
Has anyone noticed that the victims of this shooting were all female, including the teacher? Also, all of the wounded were girls? And to go farther back, in the Dec. 1 shooting in West Paduca, KY and in the October shooting in Pear, MS, the victims were all girls? It has been theorized that this is not just about violence, but about gender violence. I got a great email taking a close look at this. If anyone wants to see it, drop me a line at:
Scary. Back around Dec 89 or 90, some guy in Montreal went into a university there & separated the men & women into 2 groups & said, "you're all a bunch of feminists" & started shooting. The only men who got shot were the ones trying to stop him, otherwise, he went after the women. I forget the exact death toll, but it was all or mostly women.
i remember hearing about that shooting in montreal...7 female nursing students were killed i think. I cry ever year when my school lowers the flag to half mast in memory of the women killed then.
Butch.. you did know that one of the kids in the shooting had been dumped by his girlfriend the day before he went in killing... that just might have something to do with at least ONE of the kid's choice of victims... I wouldnt jump to the conclusion of gender issues just yet...
This has been a big story locally for a while now... it scares me a bit:
I was *just* about to say that!! I live like, 2 hours (by ferry) from where Reena Virk died, and we have some family friends who actually *knew* her family!! If this can happen in Victoria, it can happen here, and it probably will. Everyone thinks that school fights are mostly between guys, but they're not!! Girls are so mean to each other, they hurt each other over really really petty things. I could have been me or one of my friends - easily.
Me again. I read in the paper today about a 14 year-old boy in Pennsylvania who shot a teacher at a dance.
When a man kills some one it's a 'crime' right? but how come when a woman turns about murderess according to the press, it's 'evil' and when a kid sets out with a machetee it's 'cold blooded, twisted spawn of the devil type thing' Just a point, i picket up in the paper by i forget who, but never mind.
Speaking of children killing children, we have a young girl from Austin,
Just heard about Oregon. Everyone shakes their heads over these things, but what are we collectively doing about it?
Oregon... tragic. I heard a news program introduce this story with, "It's happened again." I know there are many schools in the country and it's not an epidemic but it is a serious problem. I agree with Lee that there should be more mentoring and less access to guns. I know about the right to bear arms, but right to life is listed first. Another thing is that in cases like this, people often say that the shooter made threats before the attack. People should take it seriously if someone is making threats. Sadly, we know that the person may not be speaking lightly. They might really intend to do something.
I am 13 years old and a few months ago I was put in a mental hospital for attempted homocide of my parents. While police I have talked to say this is uncommen it is not uncommen for students to get beat up at school. Sometimes there are teachers watching. At the hospital I met lots of the best freinds I've ever had in my life, some of which were also homoscidal. Kids are growing up faster and faster. When I was 11 I was losing my virginity and getting in trouble with the police. One of the most destructive and dangerous things you can do is underestimate someone cuz they are young. If a ten year old says they plan to kill me I take them seriously. I also beat the crap out of them.
Many people in this page have mentioned how easy it is for children to get their hands on guns. I must assume that those children are American, as in Britain children have no access to guns. I do not know of any places in Scotland (where I live) where people can obtain guns, and in the last few years I can remember at least two times that guns, knives etc could be handed into police stations with no questions asked.
I never heard about that Jamie Bulger case. I'm an american and at the time I was 8 years old. That is so sad. Can you really have luxerys in jail. I always heard it was a place where you sit around all day and get beat up (boys get butfucked). My freinds who went to juvy (jail for kids) say it was terrible. Just how restricted are those kids. I can't believe you can kill an inocent 2 year old and be able to get out of jail in just a few years.
Marsha, it is really sad, but in Britain, jail isn't nearly as bad as it should be. I have no personal experiences of jail and I know nobody who has been in jail, but through reading newspapers, etc I have realised that prisoners can have more rights than those of us who live in the outside world.
Children killing children is still a rare thing in this country, but the media has made it front page headlines across the world. There were a million confirmed cases of child abuse in America in 1995, not counting unconfirmed, not counting unreported. Most child abuse occurs at home. Most perpetrators are parents. Statistics in America indicate your child is safer with a stranger in a daycare center than with the child's own family. We say we have a problem with daycare, but actually we have a problem with child abuse and with being in denial about who the perpetrators are. Specifically, Lacresha Murray, 11 years old, was charged with killing a child, when it was actually a chronic case of child abuse which the police, the district attorney, the prosecutors and the press turned into a child-killer case for political reasons. Why not all this flurry over adults killing their children. They do it every day in America!
I recently read a J17 article about teen and kid killers, like the Arkansas school and the Kip Kinkel stories. You've all expressed how terrible these are and felt for the victims and their families just as i do, so i won't harp on that. But looking at the murderers, and i am trying not to offend here, i'm just thinking about why they do it. Kids feel things very strongly. their perception of life is not yet worn down into the indifferent greyness of adult hood. Young kids throw tantrums when they're pissed off, and are sweet and endearing when they're happy. As we get older we are more considerate and inhibited. But the teenage years are where it all goes fucking haywire. usually we come out of them having lost the fight to stay immature, and we throw down the gauntlet and become responsible 2o year olds. But that fight is a long and ugly one. One girl who was at Kip Kinkel's school when he went on the rampage with a gun said " He obviously felt that nobody loved him, that this was the last straw. We're teenagers. Nobody ever listens to us."
Chas, you are very right. teenagers have nobody to talk to in todays world, and if they are screwed up then they show it by being violent or verbally violent in order to get the attention they desire.
By Lyn on Saturday, March 28, 1998 - 02:58 pm:
By Lee on Sunday, March 29, 1998 - 11:31 am:
Our priorities are so warped. Remember a few years back all of the fuss about funding for midnight basketball? Meanwhile, we'll spend money for overinflated hardware for the Pentagon. Plus, it's way too easy to get guns.
By Kat on Monday, March 30, 1998 - 09:28 pm:
By Butch on Tuesday, April 14, 1998 - 06:29 pm:
00181044@bigred.unl.edu
AK
By Lee on Tuesday, April 14, 1998 - 10:18 pm:
Even stranger, you won't hear too many people condemn songs which talk about violence against women. I believe Guns-n-Roses had one which went something like (not sure of the exact lyrics), "I used to love her, but I had to kill her, now she's six feet under." Compare that lack of response to the uproar which resulted over Thelma & Louise.
By Keely on Tuesday, April 14, 1998 - 10:26 pm:
By Anonymous on Thursday, April 16, 1998 - 11:22 pm:
By Beth on Friday, April 17, 1998 - 07:01 pm:
Last November, the body of 14-year old Reena Virk was found underwater in Victoria, BC. It turns out, she was murdered, and the culprits.. seven girls the same age as her. Apparently, a few of them were angry with her, and began beating her. They put a cigarette out on her forehead, brok her arms, and pushed her into the water. Some were charged with murder, but it was lowered to assault causing bodily harm. The scary thing is that these kids had been described as "good kids", and could have been the girl-next-door or your babysitter. None of them had criminal records. Perhaps it was the group mentality and peer pressure that caused them to go so far. We're all trying to figure out why Reena Virk died, and it's just so chilling thinking of this. What happened to these girls?
By Shampoo on Monday, April 20, 1998 - 10:39 pm:
And you'd think that Reena's end would have at least affected us somehow, but it didn't happen. I haven't seen female fights in my school go down in the least bit. And I know some really scary people in my school who bring weapons and stuff, and show their friends and all, as if it's some big macho thing. I can't help thinking that at our next fire alarm, me, or one of my friends are going to get killed. There's just no safety anymore.
(Kinda off topic, sorry, but it relates somehow)
My mom has talked about that a few times - when she was growing up, she didn't hafta worry about stuff like that. She would stay out late with her friends just doing whatever, and there wasn't a lot of danger of being attacked on the street and stuff. Anyone from BC remember the Abbotsford Killer? That was only a couple of years ago, but I still remember how scary it was for us, they had signs every where - in the bus and everything, cuz there was this crazy guy on the loose who killed/injured these two girls and was taunting the police. He threatened to attack on halloween, so that day was spoiled cuz we were all so worried.
It's tough being young!! We have to worry about so many things - grades, friends, guys, drugs, fights/violence, EVERYTHING!! And sometimes it feels like no one understands, and that teens are just a bunch of messed up kids for no reason and shake their heads at how aweful we all are, when really we're not. We're great people with futures ahead of us, but unfortunately, the way things are now, a lot of kids are doing things that are going to affect them a lot in the future. That's scary.
Beth - didja read that article in "Chatelaine" about Reena Virk? You should check it out, it's a really good one.
By Kat on Sunday, April 26, 1998 - 09:28 pm:
By Anonymous on Saturday, May 16, 1998 - 05:25 pm:
She raised a few other interesting points which basically summed up to that she was suprised there wern't more child murderers, as kids can (sorry to chliché on yous) be really cruel. She decribed an incedent when she was a child and tried to strangle her younger sister in sibling rivaly (a tempting thing i'm sure) and said the only reason she stopped was because she knew she'd get in to trouble. I might sound bad, but i'm sure the stories familiar with anyone not fortunate enough to be classified as 'only child' (although admitedly sib's do have thier advantages) I don't think i've managed to get the jist of the article over too well, but i guess what it sums up to is is it doesn't really matter who pulls the trigger a killers a killer.
To start on a new point entirly, over this side of the pool in brittain, there's recently been a lot of controverysy over a book published about Mary Bell, a child killer with a pretty gory tale. After being relised from jail and having served her time, a book was made about her which she made a lot of money from selling her story. A tlot of people felt this was wrong, and to make things worse, the press as usual stuck thier oar in and found Mary living under her assumed name, and are making her life pretty close to hell at the moment. so there you go, just thought that was relevant to the subject.
Cará
By Wings on Sunday, May 17, 1998 - 10:19 pm:
Texas, in prison right now who was framed by the police and prosecutors
for the death of a 2-year-old who was being babysat in her home. There is
no doubt in my mind or that of many other people that Lacresha Murray
(who was 11 at the time) did not kill Jayla Belton -- the probable killer
of this girl, who died of a ruptured liver and had been badly beaten or
else had gone through the windshield of a car, was the mother's
boyfriend, who was known to have been brutal to the little girl and was
apparently starving her. When Lacresha first came under suspicion
(she was the only person around at the moment the coroner said he thought
the accident had happened -- only another medical examiner said he was
wrong), the district attorney of Travis County, who was running for
re-election and was accused of being soft on juvenile crime, held a press
conference, released Lacresha's name and in effect said she was guilty
before she even went to trial. She is 13 years old and in prison for 25 years.
Her case is coming up for review maybe this fall. We need more outrage
directed toward the officials on this case -- if the British nanny could get
released, why not a very, very nice young black girl who tried to help
save the life of this baby and got accused of a heinous crime?
If you send me an e-mail, I'll forward it to People of the Heart, who are
organized to try to help Free Lacresha Murray.
wings@igc.org
By Lee on Thursday, May 21, 1998 - 10:15 pm:
Everytime there's an actual or suspected terrorist attack, we take measures to prevent it, such as instituting procedures at airports, etc. When there are plane crashes, we look to find out why & how to prevent it (e.g. checking wiring on the planes after Flight 800).
I'm not saying that after school programs, counseling in schools & teen mentoring are going to solve everything, but hey, it'd be a start! Instead, we get empty platitudes about "kids today."
I'm 32 & I don't think there's anything inherently wrong w/kids today. I'm not in contact with a lot of teens, but from what I hear on the bus on my way to work, this bulletin board etc., I think "kids today" are bright, interested in the future and have a lot of good ideas. I know what it's like to be generation bashed, so I thought I'd point out some of the good too.
If some parts of the age group are turning to violence, I think it's more to do w/a lack of moral guidance, easy access to guns, etc. Not that any of this excuses the individuals from the consequences of their actions. Maybe we should wise up & see what we can learn to prevent this from happening again. If we can save one more person from dying like this, it'd be worth it!!!
Sorry, I went on so long. I'm now turning the soapbox over to the next person.
By Laurel on Friday, May 22, 1998 - 03:47 pm:
By Anonymous on Friday, July 3, 1998 - 08:17 pm:
By Karen on Tuesday, July 7, 1998 - 03:48 pm:
America should make firearms illegal. It is the only way to prevent children getting their hands on guns and killing people whether it is intentional or just an accident. No self-respecting parent should ever have a gun in the house that their children can get to. Remember that children have very stupid arguements with friends or siblings that may cause them a split second of insanity where they pull the trigger on their parent's loaded gun.
Although I am obviously blaming guns for child violence, it is also obvious that if a child wants to harm or kill someone they will find a way to do it. Approximately five years ago in Britain, two little boys aged only ten years old, lured a two year old child away from his mother and after torturing him (including throwing stones and beating him) they killed him and then left him on the train tracks where his tiny body was cut in half by a passing train. At the time i was eleven years old and very mature for that age. However, I still could not imagine any of my less-mature peers doing anything as brutal and horrific as those two boys. The children were given life sentences (in Britain that means nothing) yet they have a relatively good chance of parole within the next fifteen years (it might be less - I can't remember the exact amount of time). They are serving time in a youth detention centre and they still have access to all the luxuries of life.
I am dead against the death penalty in most cases, but when children that are pure evil do something as horrific as that, they must be punished - severely. Jamie Bulger has no life left. His last hours were spent in pain and terror. The two boys who killed him have got a whole life ahead of them.
Sorry for going on so long - I am admittedly very passionate about this subject!
luv Kaz
By Marsha on Tuesday, July 7, 1998 - 04:06 pm:
By Karen on Wednesday, July 8, 1998 - 07:33 am:
I was very interested in that Jamie Bulger case when it happened as I wanted to know how children of my age would be punished for heinous crimes such as that one, and when the kids were sentenced I read the description of where they would spend their days until they were old enough to go to real jail. It turned out that they would work a little bit during the day around the prison, but they still had access to satellite TV (which was a definite luxury at that time - very few people could afford it) and all the luxuries that teenage boys enjoy.
In America, you have a very good form of prison punishment - especially in terms of how long the sentences last. In Britain a life sentence can end up being as short as eight or nine years - that is absolutely nothing when we consider how long life lasts.
The British forms of punishment stinks! People who commit crimes in Britain get the chance to begin a new life in a matter of ten years after they commit the ultimate crime of murder.
By Barbara Taft People of the Heart for Lacresha Murray on Tuesday, August 4, 1998 - 02:40 am:
By Chas on Sunday, August 9, 1998 - 12:10 pm:
That said a lot to me about young killers, but obviously there's still a huge distinction between being mightily pissed off and being a killer. What bridges that gap is often a kid's family life. I have a theory, that if a person is screwed up and has kids, they will screw it up, intentionally or not, because of their own mental state. The screwed up kid will go on to have it's own children, and they will get screwed up too. Thus a long line of messed up people follows. What is the solution? Take a test before you have kids? Separate your life from your child's and don't take out your shit on them? If only some people would do the latter, then cases like Jamie Bulger would never occur, because his murderers were two very disturbed boys; one was frequently screamed at and hit, which turned him into a bully. The other, who had never had proper discipline and guidance, let himself be ordered around by the other. They made for a deadly duo when they got their hands on that toddler.
I am only 14. I care deeply about all the stuff going wrong in this world. This is something I feel a lot about, because it is kids my age who are driven to this, and I just wonder why.....
By Karen on Saturday, August 22, 1998 - 03:48 pm:
teenagers are both mature and immature at the same time. they are not mature enough to be adults, but they are mature enough to know their own mind and what they want and need. all teenagers need someone who will listen to all their ideas, worries and anxieties that come with being a teenager, while knowing that this person will not laugh at or think badly of them.
perhaps it isn't gun control problems that cause children to become killers, it is more likely to be their previously unexpressed desire for attention.