great expectations


NrrdGrrl! Discussion Forum: Lives and Confessions: great expectations
By ZoOeY on Sunday, August 9, 1998 - 05:36 pm:

i am not deliberately trying to marginalize nrrdgrrl discussion forum into a limited club or attack certain people but i wanted to share some random thoughts towards this bulletin board. this space does not belong to anyone, not even to me or you. but i have been noticing superfluity and redundance here lately and shallow topics on how to lose weight and if you think yr boyfriend is say are beginning to bug me. i'm not trying to discourage anyone with superficial thoughts to keep themselves quiet but i wish some readers would be more careful and wary because if they create new topics, sometimes they don't realize that there are other related topics already posted on nrrdgrrl. and some people apparently misuse nrrdgrrl by creating so-called chat rooms or restricted clubs with mentioned names. i think nrrdgrrl is everybody's space as long as we learn to use it wisely to our own advantages but not against other people.


By Shampoo on Sunday, August 9, 1998 - 05:49 pm:

Thank you, zooey! I agree totally. I remember back in the januarys and februarys where nrrdgrrl was way more direct and worried about bigger things. Now it seems like every day there are 5 new topics about stuff that's already being talked about like 3 times! People, if you have a problem you don't need to start a new conversation about it, chances are there's a forum already out there where your problem would fit right in. And please please try not to start those shallow conversations about unimportant stuff that no one is going to write in (ie colours or fun thins you can do with letters, no offense to the people who created them, they're just examples). Also the forums that are started that don't even *have* a topic, such as "write whatever you want in here" type things!

zooey was also right about the people who are using nrrdgrrl as their own chat rooms and stuff. What happened to the days when we were giving support and exchanging idea's instead of "this boy doesn't like me what should i do?" questions, which i'm sure are very important, but not when there's 20 different forums about the same thing.

i'm not trying to discourage anyone from expressing themselves or asking for help, but it bugs me so much when i come onto nrrdgrrl and see 10 new forums on nothing, just for the sake of creating them. and i know i'm not the only nrrdgrrl out there who feels the same way. a lot of the nrrdgrrls who were here in the beginning don't come anymore because nrrdgrrl has changed into "girl talk central", which is okay but i can get that at school.


By Laughing at Shampoo on Sunday, August 9, 1998 - 09:52 pm:

oh PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


By ZoOeY on Monday, August 10, 1998 - 03:28 am:

oh please what?
don't even start to attack
shampoo. that's disrespectful.


By Jabberwocky on Monday, August 10, 1998 - 10:08 am:

Hmm. 'Just Plain Talk'.

To me, that means we can say whatever we want or talk about wahtever we want.

There are deep discussions still on here- animals rights, etc. So what if some people want to talk about losing weight or whatever. If you don't want to go into those discussions, don't. Everyone doesn't have to particiapte in every discussion, just go to the ones you want to go to. If you want a deep discussion, start one. Don't wait for it to come around. And let other people talk about what they want too.

Love,
Jabberwocky


By Laughing at Zooey on Monday, August 10, 1998 - 01:34 pm:

Attack? WHAT?!
Mind your own business, little girl.
You are FAT & UGLY!
(That is an attack.)


By Shampoo on Monday, August 10, 1998 - 03:46 pm:

Laughing at whoever: if i can remember, me and zooey have been here a lot longer then you have. don't tell us what and what is not our business. obviously the only business you have here is insulting people. if you want something to be your business, then give valid points as to why you think zooey is fat and ugly even though you have never see her. or maybe you're just my 10 year old brother in disguise? because it certainly sounds like it.

Jaberwocky: there are now 4 just plain talks, and probably half the forums are useless. I didn't want it to come to saying this, but i have to say that nrrdgrrl isn't as great as it used to be, and many of the first nrrdgrrls have left because it's getting pretty lame. i've always liked nrrdgrrl, but every time i come here and get madder and madder at the lack of quality everything has compared to the first forums, (i'd say just plain talk I and II).

Yah, important discussions on animal rights... I remember *another* discussion on animal rights, I believe it is in either just plain talk I or II. Face it, girls out there aren't even bothering to look back and see if the forum already exists before creating a new one!!


By Endora on Monday, August 10, 1998 - 09:44 pm:

yeah, some people were disrespectful, but Shampoo, I remember u participating in one of those what I hate about my school/life listings (or did I misremember)?

Is that not shallow? not that i'm judging. U have a right to say what u want, but why judge others for colors & letters?

U don't like a line of discussion, here's a clue, don't read it :-)


By Your Friend on Tuesday, August 11, 1998 - 12:30 pm:

Shampoo, please, spend more time creating a real-time life. You are here too much, posting everywhere. Don't you have any friends? It is so damn easy to be a know-it-all smartass (YOU!) through the computer...how about when it comes to real life? Try taking your own advice.


By ME on Tuesday, August 11, 1998 - 03:50 pm:

I wish that we could scrap all the conversations and start from scratch... There are just too many and most of them are a load of crap!

Sorry if I have offended anyone!


By ME on Tuesday, August 11, 1998 - 03:54 pm:

Please stop being so nasty to shampoo please. What she does with her time is none of anyones business... She is NOT here that much. She has a right to her opinions the same as everyone else does!


By Que_ on Wednesday, August 12, 1998 - 11:30 am:

Okay, totally disregarding all the stupid, unneccesary bitching that's been going on lately.... I would have to agree with the fact that NrrdGrrl has lost it's original ingenuity. The conversations have become shallow and repetitive. I remember being in here when there was only "Just plain talk". Those were good times...but change is inevitable, and we all know it.

What has happened here is only a metaphor for real life. As NrrdGrrl has become more widely used (which is great, because i used to think it promoted positive messages), more people from different backgrounds, states of mind, and life stories have started posting. Diversity is a good thing in my mind. What I see now is simplythe development of NrrdGrrl into the proportions of real life. If you look around you in real life, it is easy to spot many shallow people. In fact, I believe that over half of the population is like this...simply because it is the norm, the status quo. What us first NrrdGrrls are so upset about is that we thought that this real-life ratio of shallow people (my definition of shallow: people who don't give a damn about anyone else, and have no big picture about life) to sincere people (who DO give a damn about other people, andhave respect for others and life) would not apply.

We were hoping for a utopian society, where everyone got along and respected eachother. I think we have to face the fact that this just isn't possible. Not in real life, and not on the computer. It's really sad, but that's just a fact.

Old NrrdGrrls, we might just have to scout the net for a more genuine Grrl site if we're going for that utopian society thing, because it just isn't happening here anymore!!!

Yeah, if you'll notice I haven't posted anything for a long time...just too disappointed. Oh well, all good things must come to an end I suppose. :(



By Shampoo on Wednesday, August 12, 1998 - 03:14 pm:

to "ME" (or should I say "you"? hmm...) thank you for sticking up for me! I really appreciate it. It's true I don't think I'm here that much, maybe it just seems like it cuz i've been here since november or something. I definately don't think that "your friend" (or should i say "my friend?" hmm...) had no right to tell me what I am and what I do, seeing as she doesn't know me. I agree with you, though, i wish we could just erase some stuff and start over.

and que! wow que i didn't know you had it in you! you hit the nail right on the head.


By Amelia Wilson (Admin) on Wednesday, August 12, 1998 - 03:55 pm:

Okey doke. I've mostly been hovering around the edges here because I wanted to see what this place would turn into without much guidance (other than deleting spam and really obnoxious attacks).

Talk to me people. Do you think the board should go to heavier moderation? If so, any volunteers to be moderators? I can give certain users permissions to create and delete conversations, messages, etc. Que, Shampoo, Zooey, you guys want to moderate forums?

I agree that many of the postings/topics have drifted from what I orignally had in mind when I put this puppy out here-- but to a certain extent, as Que pointed out-- it's just a microcosm of the population of women who are out there in cyberspace. I didn't necessarily want to stamp myself all over the place and say "you can only talk about things I approve of!"

So, I think we need to steer a middle ground. If that includes wiping the slate clean, so be it.

Ideas?

-Amelia


By Endora (formerly known as Lee) on Wednesday, August 12, 1998 - 04:28 pm:

I've been posting to/reading this site since January, when I got a home pc for the first time (I've been using computers @ work/school for years). Yeah, there's been a decline in civility, but often people will stick up for each other & put the obnoxious ones in their place. I think this is heartening

Beyond that, I don't see what all the fuss is about. Good luck searching for your cyberutopia. Of course, the same thing will happen there, & you'll probably have to find yet another site. Here a couple of other options:

1) If the whole shallow issue bothers you that much, why not ask the system administrator (Amelia Wilson) to reiterate the purpose/mission of nrrdgrrl & nrrdgrrl nettiquette? She's actually the moderator & it would make more sense for her to do this than to have another endless round of bickering & name calling here.

2) What's so difficult about ignoring the posts that don't interest you & creating your own? It's not like it's a list serv & you have to read through the messages or scroll past them in a digest. It's not like people are mislabeling them or anything. I haven't seen anyone post a recipe request under The Meaning of Life or anything like that :-) The shallow ones are usually pretty self-explanatory.

As for the examples given of shallow topics, I for one would rather people turn here for advice about exercise & nutrition. At least here, they might have people be supportive & constructive, rather than the Thinner Thighs in Thirty Days mentatlity that pervades much of culture. Personally, I found the colors thing useful. I use computers a lot for research, but I wasn't aware of the commands involved for creating colors, etc. The colors post prompted me to look at the instructions for that.

IMHO, calling other posters shallow is just an excuse for a lack of creativity. If you're bored w/the topics, post a more interesting one. This site is what we all make it. If you don't like it, you have the power to change it by starting a new topic.

Also, this is only conjecture, but is the lack of deep conversations perhaps related to summer? I've only been here since January, so I don't know what last summer was like, if in fact this site existed last summer, but maybe that has something to do w/it. Think about it, some students may only have access to computers at schools, universities, etc. Many people are on holiday/vacation & some may be working at summer camps or resorts w/out computer access or more limited access. Even for those of us spending vacations at home (I have a week off, but not the budget for a trip), thoughts tend to turn to lighter issues. That's why beach reading & summer movies tend to be lighter fare.

Hope I haven't been disrespectful to anyone, but I think this is definitely becoming a mountain out of molehill issue. I hope everyone's having a GREAT SUMMER 8-)


By Endora on Wednesday, August 12, 1998 - 04:33 pm:

Never mind, no. 1, my posting & Amelia's crossed in the mail :-} Personally, I don't see the need for more moderation, maybe just a reiteration of the purpose & nettiquette.

As I said before, if people aren't interested, they can just skip over to another conversational topic.


By Wominist on Wednesday, August 12, 1998 - 09:36 pm:

Amelia and others,

Amelia (before I start) can I say that you've done a great job with this thing and I rarely respect people I've never met but Kudos and congratulations. Of course there has to be some changes, editing, growing-that is the sign of a great project. I've quickley ran through the forums and may I make some suggestions:

1. Print a message that says:please check to make you do not create a forum that doesn't exist. The forum might not have the exact name that your looking for but it might cover the same Mention that your *specific* problem can be talked about in a general forum. For example there are 9! forums on Guys: Boys, Ladz, Stealing boys, dating boys, crushes, guy I never met, are they all gay or taken, all guys suck, all men are jerks. These could all be grouped under: Questions and Comments about guys. Or something like that.

3 forums: lesbians, how can you tell if your friends are gay and bi-sexual dillema, can all go under a forum entitled: Sexuality.

There are 3 forums:Friendship, what about your friends and I hate my friends all having to do with friendship.

There are 4 forums:Sexual penetration, my sex like and please help, all having to do with sex. If you put a little message somewhere (not in the new posters please read b/c I didn't read that) I think it would help. Also if you're watching and someone does make a new forum where one already exists post a message in that forum asking them to please resume conversation in the already existing forum (then edit it)

2. Stress that the forum titles should be positive! People I hate, all men suck e.t.c. should be edited.

3. Have a specific topic (even if it's broad like religion) There are 8: I just wanna talk, I need advice, a space to write anything, scream!, annoying things, I need to say whatever, just need advice,anything and everything. Tell people to pice a *topic*

4. Just some general editing. There are 3 losing weights and one I just want to lose weight all after one another! And I suggest forums that haven't been used in 30 days or over should be deleted. This would get rid of 7! in Just Plain Talk, 7 in jp2, 17! in jp3 and 1 in jp 4.

Hope some of this helps!


By Shampoo on Thursday, August 13, 1998 - 02:52 am:

wominist i love you! this is what i have been trying to say but it never came out right!

endora: you said that if we don't like the conversation we should just create our own. that's part of the problem! there are *way* too many forums and they're all on the same thing!! what wominist suggested was perfect!! thank you thank you!!

tell people to pick a topic!!!! wominist you are the coolest.


By Amelia Wilson (Admin) on Thursday, August 13, 1998 - 09:32 am:

Okay guys. Over the weekend, I'll try to do a little cleanup around here. I also think I'm going to do away with the ability to post anonymously, as I think it increases the random snottiness factor when people can hide behind that.

Look for changes soon, and keep your ideas coming!

-Amelia


By Endora on Thursday, August 13, 1998 - 09:19 pm:

First, let me second Womanist's thanks to Amelia. She's doing a great job & provides us all w/a forum to express ourselves. She's done it in a creative & original way. Also, as Amelia suggested, it's a good idea to do away w/the anon. posts. Too many people hide behind them.

Womanist's idea to categorize the discussions is a good one. Personally, I just ignore the ones I don't want to read, but I realize that would be a bit daunting for a newcomer to scroll through 5 Just Plain Talks. In addition, it'll help the continuity of the discussions.

Shampoo, I'm not telling you to create redundant topics, but merely to take responsiblity for your boredom/dissatisfaction w/the site. Calling other people shallow is indicative of a lack of creativity.

Not to single anyone out, but some of the responses here have been mere whinging, rather than constructive criticism. Womanist was the only one who actually thanked Amelia for all the work she puts in here in addition to her regular job. I noticed some of the more vocal complainers didn't take Amelia up on her offer to let them become moderators. Just an obeservation.


By Que_ on Thursday, August 13, 1998 - 10:58 pm:

Endora: maybe we didn't take her up on the offer publicly....as in, I personally did it through email. Oh well, I just spoiled my cover.


By ZoOeY on Friday, August 14, 1998 - 04:12 am:

Little does Amelia realizes how much of her valiant efforts are lighting up our lives. Where are my manners? Thank you, Amelia, and I'm still wondering how on Mars can you do all this divine work by yourself.

I would gladly offer my hands and my fat brain to be a Nrrdgrrl moderator but right now, I already have an internship in physical therapy and I'm a media-researcher volunteer for about-face! organization based in San Francisco. It's tiring enough and there are countless zines circulating around I write for. If I actually applied for her offer, I know I wouldn't live up to my fullest potential because I'm very preoccupied and Amelia does not deserve such a faltered gag like me. I know better than to screw her up with my half-truth offers. It's not right. Do it or don't do it. No gray shades here.


By BlueEyes on Friday, August 14, 1998 - 10:34 am:

Amelia, :)) tis a Wonderful place you have forged in the “CyberUniverse.” Though but a guest of this grand kingdom…I’ve enjoyed sharing Thoughts and Ideas with others within these Great Halls of Venus. Humbly I’d like to greet you with a *Hug* and do encourage you to continue your efforts to build a better environment for Women everywhere, to discuss their concerns and to exchanges their ideas in a positive way.

Amelia, though disabling the “Anonymous” checkbox is a good idea…what’s to keep someone from typing it in as their User Name? Just a thought. Plus you could maybe expand this message board to add a “Build a Story Topic” area, or even a “NrrlGrrl Art Gallery” area. Course those may sound like silly ideas?!? Well take care of yourself…hope to see more messages from you in the Future. (There isn’t a need for you to just hover around the edges all the time, be a part of your creation! Please express your thoughts and ideas as well.) hehe!! Cya!

XXXX
David


By Shampoo on Friday, August 14, 1998 - 04:36 pm:

i agree, i think what amelia did was amazing, and don't get me wrong, i love nrrdgrrl, but i'd love it a whole lot more if... well you know. i'm sorry if i hurt her feelings, i didn't mean to, and i'm really really sorry if i did. amelia is awesome, i've always thought so, and i still do. the problem isn't with her.

yah, and endora, i did what que did. so there.


By Endora on Friday, August 14, 1998 - 07:33 pm:

Shampoo,

Since I'm not a psychic or a cryptologist, I can only see what's posted here, not your private e-mails to other people. So there, yourself :-)


By Kate on Monday, August 17, 1998 - 08:36 am:

Amelia

How about archiving some of the old topics that no-one has posted to for months under headings as womanist suggested. This would free up some more space. Also I think that the repeat postings should be deleted as this confuses issues (I mean the ones where people think that their topic hasnt posted see recent plain talk four)
Its also really nice to have you around. Sometimes I thought that you had abandoned the site.
I really enjoy coming here, but as Shampoo has pointed out, it has got a little like Just Seventeen (UK teengirl magazine!) recently. I could just be the school holidays though.
Any help needed, I'll give it a go!

Kate


By Sophie on Monday, August 24, 1998 - 08:01 am:

Why is everyone getting so worked up about what people should and shouldnt talk about .
It is a forum any one can use and write whatever they want in it-if you dont like what they are writin then keep out of it!!


By Rhiannon on Sunday, September 6, 1998 - 03:25 pm:

I think what these people are talking about is eactly what you guys are doing, you are getting too personnal and mean, this place is to get away from all the nasty things not to discuss them.
Shampoo, I was here back then aswell and I liked it better, I was never insulted, just directed. I have created a 'just talk about stuff 2' where we can go back to the normal ways and ignore anyone who want to intrude, anyone want to join us for some nice, pleasant, mature conversation?


By Anonymous on Monday, October 5, 1998 - 01:32 pm:

Girls/Guys,

Hey, Ya shouldn't fight like that, its pathetic (and funny, hehehe) Anyway, don't ya people have anything better to do? Just have some normal conversations and keep stuff like loosing weight (oh yeah, this is sooooo the talk) for ya girlie sleep overs :-) No offence people. See ya round, maybe next time you people might have grown up.

-Helen


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