SELL-OUTS in femme music...


NrrdGrrl! Discussion Forum: Music, Lit, and Pop Culture: Music-- who do you love?: SELL-OUTS in femme music...
By Sistah crim on Monday, December 22, 1997 - 12:45 am:

jewel claims to be a feminist...yet she still carries that passive, "girlish" charm we all know and HATE...

alanis morisette...the former "pop princess of canada..." did she just jump on the bandwagon to make a buck...or does she REALLY MEAN what she preeches???

tori amos...has she lost her sincerity???

ani difranco...an all-time favourite of mine...is now becoming a *puke puke*...sorority girl icon

WHY??? WHY??? WHY???


By Esk on Tuesday, December 23, 1997 - 01:18 pm:

why do you think tori has "lost her sincerity"? have you read recent interviews with her, or even from last year when BfP was released? to me she sounds much more self-confident and honest than ever before.

and frankly i'm sick of hearing that ani has "sold out." gimme a break. she's being exposed to audiences that have never seen her before, and if you're annoyed by the trendiness, give it a year or two and it'll die down. she's not yours to own. and maybe, just MAYBE, one of those "sorority girls" will hear her music and really be affected by it. wouldn't that be worth it?

eskarina8@hotmail.com


By Simone on Thursday, December 25, 1997 - 10:35 pm:

For all of the above, I'm not especially fond of the tunes... Trendiness fades quickly and if there was any quality backing it up, who knows? Maybe it will change someone for the better. (Scratch that. Help someone to change.)
And for everyone's favorite subject, 80's kids' TV, Alanis was a heck of a lot better on _You Can't Do That on Television_ than she'll ever be as a singer. Which isn't saying much.

-Simone


By Punkgrrl on Thursday, January 1, 1998 - 05:50 pm:

Ani Difranco and Tori Amos are (in my opinion)
great musicians. I don't know about Jewel or
Alanis... but I love Ani and Tori.

I don't think they sold out. If you turn on a
radio, you will never hear either one of them...
if you read an interview, they are as honest and sincere as possible.

Well, that is my humble opinion.


By Sparkle66 on Tuesday, January 6, 1998 - 03:33 pm:

I agree with Punkgrrl to that end.
Although Ani is exposing herself to more publicity, she hasn't censored or altered her music or her message. And she certainly hasn't sold out to a big name record company.
Maybe the sorority girls are just getting smarter.
However, it is aggrivating to hear "trendy" girls say that Ani's music is "so cute" (referring to the movie soundtrack for "My Best Friend's Wedding")
As for Tori Amos, I don't see how she could have lost her sincerity. I mean, read her lyrics.


By Shimmy on Thursday, January 8, 1998 - 10:00 pm:

i hate that, when a person will scream "SELL OUT!!!" and point a finger at a succesful musician. like all people who make money have comprimised themselves. jealousy doesn't help anyone.


By Meredith on Sunday, January 18, 1998 - 11:30 pm:

What is wrong with girls/women that sing with there natural feminine voices. Sista Crim makes it sound like it is wrong to sing the way that maybe someone was born to sing. Just because you are a feminist does not mean that you are not allowed to be feminine. Being a feminist is about being who you are...and if that IS the way she is then MORE POWER TO HER!


By Lya on Saturday, February 21, 1998 - 02:21 pm:

Hey all! If you think Tori has lost her sincerity, check out RAINN--the crisis hotline she began in 1994 for victims of abuse, incest, and rape. I believe Tori has done wonders for women so far--she's given so many of her fans a voice. Tori is as far from "selling out" as you can get. There are numerous fundraisers going on currently for RAINN, including an upcoming poetry book, a special edition lithograph, and other things. Please, check it out @:

http://www.feminist.com/rainn.html

or call 1-800-656-HOPE.


By Shannon on Wednesday, March 4, 1998 - 11:03 am:

I don't think there's *anything* wrong with Jewel... sure, she sings soprano and always looks pretty on stage. If she cut off all her hair and wore combat boots, would she be a feminist? I think that a big part of feminism is being *who you want to be*, and being accepted for that, whether you want to be a "girly girl" or not.


By Melanie on Saturday, March 7, 1998 - 12:27 am:

I don't think that a musician should be considered a sellout just because she gets popular. What is she supposed to do, say, "No, no, I don't want people to like my music!?" Get real. By the way, one relatively not really well known group/singer is Jonatha Brooke and The Story. She is incredible. And I still adore Tori Amos. Her concerts are always in small places (the 2 that I've been to, anyway.) and she always communicates with the audience.


By Gynger on Monday, March 9, 1998 - 07:11 pm:

Do you guys (oops ~ GRRLS) buy albums for the money or the musican's personality?


By RiotGrrly on Saturday, March 14, 1998 - 07:49 pm:

What makes a feminist? Is it how pretty a girl is, the music she listens to, the books she reads? No! It's about what she believes in and the way she fights for what she believes in. Last time I checked you didn't hafta fit into a stereotype to be a feminist or a grrrl. What happened to this whole thing not being about limitations? None of these female artists are sellouts! I personally love every single one of them. Their music kicks and so do they, as women. If Jewel says she is a feminist and she practices what she preaches...then hell yeah she is a feminist! Why because she is blonde and sweet-looking and girly you're going to say she's a liar and she's not really a feminist? Being a feminist is not about segregating ppl because of the way they look (hence why we stay away from derogatory names) it's about what they believe! Ani, Jewel, Tori, Alanis are all talented musicians regardless of their physical appearance! They are popular musicians who make money...is there something wrong with that? Tori for one does great things with her money (RAINN). None of these women are sellouts..in my opinion they're great musicians as well as role models. Perhaps you should recheck the definiton of a feminist...

luv,
Jess
http://www.geocities.com/Wellesley/6788


By SQQUID on Wednesday, April 8, 1998 - 09:15 pm:

I don't really listen to any of theses singers mentioned (I'm more into stuff like Hole,L7,And Bikini Kill),but I've heard and seen enough to know that they are feminists in their own ways and are doing their own thing,being who they want to be and not really giving a shit what others think.You are entitled to your own opinion,but I know they've inspired many girls,and,in my opinion,ARE NOT SELL-OUTS!


By Queen on Tuesday, April 21, 1998 - 03:16 pm:

What is a sell-out? What's popular? What's trendy? The entire movement towards women in rock is considered a trend. Does that make all of these guitar-toting jane-come-lately's sell-outs before they even hit the record store/cd bins? When people that you don't think are cool start to like your cool music, does that make the artist a sell-out? There are so many variables, and its pathetic to have someone look at your level of popularity and make a snap judgement on your character, your personal credo and everything else inbetween.
Is a sell-out is someone that's doing it just for the money? That's not the way it works in the recording industry, because there is no money, not for a long ways down the road, and not unless you're real clever on the business end. Remember--nothing happens for 95% of what gets signed out there, and just because someone's popular/well-known, it doesn't mean that they're rich or even well-off.
I don't listen to any of those women. They aren't ballsy enough for me, and I don't mean the style of music or necessarily the vocal delivery (but check out early Ike and Tina Turner Revue stuff from the late 50's and early 60's to hear a woman sing with some balls...) But they are out there doing it and by their very existence/success in the industry, they are opening more doors for women in music, and I respect that. There's a glut of that folksy stuff right now, but that's my opinion.
Our perceptions of the artist are formed by mass media and videos and marketing campaigns. If they aren't moving units/cds, they would be ignored. Plain and simple. If obscurity is what you require, fine. But don't foist that bag on anyone else as a listening requirement, or to give yourself credibility for being cool.
I think there's two kinds of music--good and bad. Period.


By GwenSTE on Friday, May 8, 1998 - 12:27 am:

Sell outs.. ahhh that is harsh. My opinion is there really are no sell outs. Musicians are artists/poets who do what they love and make money. I work for a mortgage company.. (um.. don't really like it I tell ya!) but does that make me a sell out because I'm WORKING for MONEY? No, It doesn't.
And no one mention Liz Phair!!! I love love love her!! She is one of the most talented and over whelming musicians I have ever heard. I love music and I am thankful these gifted people share their talent with us. AND if you don't like Tori Amos or Jewel.. well, you don't have to listen I guess :)
No Doubt.. ahhh ska ska ska.
Peace.


By Stefanie Soulsby on Saturday, May 9, 1998 - 01:49 pm:

I see a page of moaning about sell-outs yet not one mention of the Spice Girls. They are the byword for um sellingoutism. For a start they're manufactured (Ug, manufactured bands make me sick) and they endorse practically every product going. Drinks, sweets, clothes, computer games and body spray. They are so over-rated. I'm all for girls standing up for what they believe in, but I don't think flashing your boobs around is really promoting feminism.
Ok, now I'm bracing myself for a barrage of "I love the Spice Girls and you suck and Spice Girls rule and you're sad and you need to get a life SO THERE!"
Go ahead, I can take it


By Anonymous on Thursday, June 4, 1998 - 04:31 pm:

I just want to agree with Stefanie. The spice girls are a product that was produced by other people. If they created THEMSELVES, it would be different. But they aren't creating anything new. All the other women named write their own songs and, potentially, their own music as well. I could be wrong by making such a blanket statement though.
And chrst, if a person makes it big but keeps the same system going, the same way of creating their art, then how are they sell-outs? If they continue to grow and experiment as artsits, then how have they sold-out? It seems to me that an artist would be even more or a sell-out by recycling their old material.


By Marsha on Friday, July 3, 1998 - 07:00 pm:

You grrls want to hear a singer that really rocks? Check out Natalie Imbruglia. Girl power rules, Spice Girls suck.


By Punkgrrl on Wednesday, July 15, 1998 - 03:03 pm:

i don't think there is such a thing as a sell out. i mean, take any artist... let's say Jewel. some people maybe think she is a sell out because her songs got popular, or she dresses a certain way... whatever reason. but keep in mind, to play guitar and write songs like her, you have to work pretty damn hard. i mean, it's not like she let her record company write her songs and mold her into the newest trend. the poor girl, she lived out of her car for years when she was struggling to make it as a musician! now, i'm not really a fan of hers, but i don't consider her a sellout.

wait... i just said there was no such thing as a sellout. i take that back. the spice girls are sellouts. but other than that...


By Fatima5 on Thursday, July 16, 1998 - 12:18 pm:

I don't think that musicians can really sell out if they are true to themselves. As for the prefabricated pseudo-feminist Spice Girls, they were only interested in the money, and fame from day one.

And for those bashing artists who don't fit their pettty mundane sterotype of what a feminist looks like you must be extremely shallow people. If you can't get past the physical appearence of someone that is sad. They are musicians! Not an image or an advertising campaign.


By Katie on Tuesday, July 28, 1998 - 02:40 pm:

I agree with some of the postings listed above. You can be a girly grrl and still be a feminist. There are no rules. As for Ani DiFranco...she's honest, blunt and real. I appreciate her music so much and I'm just a few steps away from being the "sorority girl" that everyone laughs at.


By Carolina on Wednesday, September 9, 1998 - 11:07 pm:

ok first thing...the spice girls are not sell outs. why? because they never had a brain between the five of them to begin with. its not like they were scraping along and finally one day while performing in a coffeehouse, someone discovered them. they had spice girl TRY OUTS for god sake. they were dolls for bigscarycorporateguys to prance around. its pathetic. one more comment, natalie imbruglia is pretty and everything, but i tend to have close to zero respect for any singer who doesnt write their own stuff. shes a pretty face with an okay voice. thats it. oh yeah and jonatha brooke is a she, the story was a duo that no longer exists and hasnt for years. the other half of the band the story (jennifer kimball) has a new cd out now too. it totally rocks. and if anyone is looking for someone new to check out try dar williams, and patty griffin. you totally wont be sorry. i really agree with the feminism discussion by the way...i think too many people think you can point out a feminist walking down the street, but its not about having a crew cut and combat boots, like someone said. its all about whats upstairs.


By Eloise on Friday, September 25, 1998 - 04:34 am:

i think the word "sellout" was created to describe someone's dissapointment that a musician (or artist..etc) they admired has suddenly become accessible to others.. leaving this person feeling somewhat left out because it's almost as though their most special friend has found new ones.
it may be heartbreaking to think that once you felt so close to this person...almost as though you were the only person on the earth to hear their music..making it a special bond between you & them.
so of course when others start to make the connection... it looses it's special-ness.
no need to cry. think about how your friend (the now successful musician) will never (hopefully) have to do something they don't like for money... again.
and now i'll plug my favourite femme musicians.
nerdy girl (now playing solo as cecil seaskull), liz phair, mary timony (ubergirl from helium) mary lou lord, sleater-kinney, julie doiron, jale, cub, ninety-nine,plumbtree, freakwater, kim deal.... so if you're over ani and tori and co. open the air waves and maybe you will no longer feel left out.


By Thora on Wednesday, September 30, 1998 - 09:51 pm:

Oh, shut the hell up. I'm sick of this "sell-out" witch hunt. First of all, these women are artists, and you can't blame them for allowing their music to be promoted and wanting to make a good living, because that's their choice. Second of all, a well-respected independent artist such as Ani is bound to be discovered by the public sooner or later, and it's not her fault if so-called "sorority girls" start listening to her music. It's not like she censored herself or tried to be trendy in order to get certain people to listen to her. It's totally hypocritical to stop liking something just because it's more popular or trendy all of a sudden. To certain people, it's just not "cool" to like something once it becomes popular, and that's really just as bad as crowd-following.


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