After spending about 15 minutes in this discussion forum, I have one thing to say. YOU ALL MAKE ME SICK! Pitiful, fake chickies giving eachother pitiful, fake, cheezy advice.. I'm sorry, but rambling in discussion forumz about your weight, trying to make yourself feel better about eating that pint of ice cream cauze you are beautiful the way you are, and the boyz shouldn't like you for your body anywayz, the whole "do what you want screw everyone else love yourself" attitude that you all are trying so hard to pull off, is FULL OF SHIT!!! Throw up all over all thoze skinny skinny anorexic girlies if you want, but don't put them down for being the way they are, cauze they are just as girl empowered as you, hell, even more so at least they aren't in a chatroom on the net ripping on their own kind out of sheer jealousy. My gawdess, no, did I say that forbidden word, JEALOUSLY? Ever heard of that, my grrrrrrrlz? Yeah, that's right all you grrlz saying that men suck are just trying to soothe yourselvez for not living up to what thoze horrible men everyone hates so much want you to be living up to, you are soooo incredibly jealous and bitter that they like thoze other girlz who weigh less and spend more time on their makeup than you, that you say they suck and are pigz to make yourself feel better. Let me give you all a wake up call, you sweet self-esteem building supportive saps that are making me sick, society is based upon a lil thing called SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST. Only the best of the best are gonna come out alive, and so of course that heroin girl model who spendz five hourz a day at the gym and eats 1 grape a day is BETTER THAN YOU, cauze she's figured out the system and she's figured out what's gonna get her ahead in this life and instead of whining and putting on that "i love my body no matter what why can't you too" act that you all have down so well, she's out there WORKING and making herself the best she can be, so she can rule, so the boyz will love her, so people like YOU will secretly wish to be her while saying out loud "that poor girl". If you don't like the system, why don't you GET THE FUCK OUT OF IT instead of whining about it and trying to change it, cauze I've got newz for all you wannabe tough femenist grrrrrrrrlz, no ones gonna change for a 150 pound is-that-a-girl-or-a-boy with bleached short hair and a way-too-strong-to-pull-off attitude. Want to make a difference? Want femenism to get a good name instead of the bad one it already has? Why don't you stop being lazy and using femenism as an excuse? If you love your body the way it is, well that's just great for you, but don't expect anyone else to if you aren't flawlessly perfect, cauze no one's gonna, you may actually have to WORK to get what you want, not just claim femenism and expect it all to be okay. Yeah, you can all give eachother your fake support if you want, rip on the spice girlz cauze they are better than you and you know it, talk shit on that anorexic slut grrrl that all the guyz want instead of you, but realize that all this behavior is giving femenism the name it has now, that the bitter UGLEE people who aren't GOOD ENOUGH to make it in the reel world are the femenists, that it's a way for PATHERIC LOOOOZER girlz with their own kind, so they can comfort eachother and make eachother feel better. YOU ALL ARE FEEDING THE STEREOTYPES, my darlingz! Wouldn't it be great to see a skinny, beautiful, long haired femenist? Wouldn't that be a refreshing change? Wouldn't that be a shocker to the system? Or is that just a lil tooo effortful for you all, would you rather just stay fat and uglee and lazy and whine and whine until some other fat and uglee and lazy chickie tellz you that it's alright?
wow.....some people are seriously strange....
Hey, Bitch Gawdess,
HEY bitch "Gawdess"- FUCK OF
Get a life and learn to spell. No matter how beautiful you are and how much you have sold out to the media, you cant string a sentance together. It makes you sound like the pig ignorant fucker you are.
Maybe that's a weird idea, but we over here actually care about how this world's gonna look like and we're not gonna adjust to it, we're gonna change it. I will not degrade myself and do things that are out of my character just so some dumb pervert guys will like me. Beauty doesn't last forever, brains do. It doesn't take talent to be pretty and dumb. It doesn't win respect. And I've got news for you-it's us who are getting somewhere and surviving, not the cheerleaders. High school isn't that big of a percentage of our life. There is maturity afterwards... Ever heard the word?
everyones gots something to say. shes said hers, and thats fine with me. i dont care about her.
Survival of the fittest? Well, she has a point.. that much is true.
Survival of the fittest? Yeah, right starve one's body of calcium, etc. No one's going to be 20 forever.
You can't just generalize all people on here and then try to pyschoanlysize everyone on here in your pissed-off teeny-bopper fashion. Please talk to some kind of physical fitness person before you write that excersizing then eatting a grape is going to make you fit.. acually it'll probably kill you eventually. We don't all have a hatred for skinny girls sparked out of our immense jealousy of them.. maybe you're jealous of them and are just spouting out in anger at us because you are mad at yourself. You don't know what we look like.. and from the sounds of it you don't know what feminists look like except for your stereotypical Beavis and Butthead-like views... just to let you know feminists come in all shapes and colours.. and YES.. some are very beautiful.. And if you're just writing this just to get bad responces in some juvenile attempt for attention.. JOB WELL DONE!
Um, okay...
Gawdess: 2 years from now that 1 grape heroin girl is either going to overdose and die in her bathtub or snap in half on the runway. Girls who fight their bodies natural size by starving themselves to be pencil thin are going to get sick. And even if they live past the age of 20, they wont have enough body fat and muscle to have healthy children, if any at all. While I, on the other hand, with all my lovely roundness and big hips am going to live to 100 and bear very healthy, round kids (if I decide to have any). If this isn't survival of the fittest then I don't know what is.
Star-
Marsha....
Hmmmmm.... thanx all of you for your concern about my mental well being, I'm glad that you get worried for someones health when they don't share your same opinionz and lifestylez.. that REALLY sayz something about all your "femenists" openmindedness......
That seems to be one of the idea's, that beaty equals a lack of brains, but that stereotype can be blamed on the media. How many movies are there that depict thin, pretty, bouncy cheerleaders as ditzy and dumb? That does seem to be the stereotype. But that doesn't mean that all of us think that way. You haven't seen what any of us look like, so how can you judge us by saying we're all ugly and jealous? Did it ever occur to you that maybe we're just frustrated over the *other* stereotype that you seem to have? The one about feminists being ugly and jealous? Or maybe we're just sick of how the world works today in that a girl is judged by the way she looks?
Bitch Gawdess,Why do you write here if you don't like it. Why don't you go and bitch at people who want to listen. If you enjoy picking a fight go on the Jerry Springer show.
Anon-I don't think you should dis-courage people from bringing valid complaints to nerrdgrrl.
Bitch gawdesses comments were not feminest, they were mean. I'm throwing it right back in her face.
Let me see if I understand this correctly, "Bitch Gawdess" abhors stereotypes, yet she generalizes about all of the particpants on this website. Yeah, I don't agree w/some of this "I hate so & so," but then again, if I had access to a modem, etc. back when I was 14 in 1980, it might have been different (btw, I was referred to as the "tall, skinny one" back then).
Bitch Goddess,
I think Bitch is right. Those anerexic girls do get lots of guys. I know the guys that go for them too. They're all looking to get some ass and nothing more. The same guys grow up (around 30) and want something more than just a body. You might yell at me for assuming that "pretty" girls have no brain, but I submit to you that anybody who kills herself to be skinny isn't all there in the head. Besides, ask a psychiatrist, eating disorders are called disorders because they are not healthy. Girls with eating disorders don't starve themselves until they are skinny and then just stay there. Girls with eating disorders usually can never admit that they are skinny enough, and will usually keep losing weight until something very bad happens. Social Darwinism dictate that anorexia is bad if it kills you before you can succeed or reproduce.
Anorexia is not just about being skinny. Research has shown that it often involves depression and lack of control over one's life. And contrary to what you believe, often it strikes very intelligent girls who are high achievers. This is because they are perfectionists in other areas of their life and that extends to their appearance.
C'mon, face it grrrrlz, to mainstream America gawd is 5'8", weighs 110 pounds, has long straight blonde hair, and a flawless complexion, and no matter how much you all would like to believe otherwize, no one givez a fuck whether or not the gurl can think... You all keep saying how I need to wake up, face reality, enter the real world, but you are only referring to YOUR reality, and YOUR world... ever consider that you are all the onez who need to wake up? Take a look around you, and as tragik as it is, you will see what controlz America..... Mandy, you say I have no idea what feminism is about, but this claimz to be a "feminism" website, and all I can see is a bunch of pitiful grrrlz banding together against thoze other girlz that are better than them, claiming that they don't have a brain, claiming that guyz are pigz cauze they don't like who you wish they would..... Alright, back to the stereotypes... you are all uglee and jealous, and we are all beeyouteafull and dumb... seem fair to everyone? Cauze that's what we're spitting at eachother.... And why do I write in here if I don't like it? I'm just trying to figure all of you out, I'm trying to figure out how many of you can actually think and bring back good arguments to what I have to say, and how many of you don't have a clue in hell and are just trying to make youself sound like you know what's going on... So far it's about half and half.. I'm also kinda wondering if any of you are openminded enough to try and step back and take a look at your life, yourself, and feminism, from a different point of view.. so far no one is... any takerz?
It is true that many of us are jealous of that 110 pound girl. Some of us arn't. I'm not ugly. I'm not beautiful either. I'm just a regular person. Sorry to disapoint you. I'd love to be that girl you talked about for the excact reason that in a lot of our minds those kind of people do rule. I think what a lot of us are trying to do is change that unfair standard of beauty. I did try seeing it from your perspective but all I can see is that your either very pretty but very bitter about something, or you have some odd love of pissing people off. Now how bout you try and see it from my perspective
Allright, Bitch Gawdess, let's sit down and talk, okay?
Bitch Gawdess,
Lee,
This is to Bitch gawdess,
I'm taking bets on Bitch Gawdess being a guy who's trying to get a rise out of the people on these boards. Any takers?
While I think that lady die's message kicked a hell of a lot of ass. You do know it can be unhealthy to be really overweight. I try to work out so while I'm not oh so cute, anyone who makes fun of me or my freinds gets their ass kicked.
I have to say that I agree that we (as women)should stop ripping other women apart because of the fact that they have a "perfect" figure, or a "beautiful" face. However I cannot tolerate ignorance (such as that which I heard in Bitch Gawdess message) Eating Disorders are
i think bitch gawdess KICKS SOME MAJOR ASS!!
Olivia,
If everyone is true to themselves and who they really are, and are considerate and open minded of who other people are, i wouldn't have to be reading ANY of the bullshit. Bitch Gawdess: maybe you're right about some people, but not all. YOU are the one who is stereotyping. Your posts are inconsiderate, close-minded, and down right nasty. If you don't like it here, LEAVE, and never come back. None of the people here appreciate you telling them everything thats wrong with them.
EVERYONE IS WORRIED ABOUT THEMSELVES........SERIOUSLY, IS THERE ANYONE OUT THERE THAT IS CONCERNED ABOUT HELPING THOSE IN NEED OR OUR BATTERED EARTH???
Kat: Hey, my posts may be incosiderate and nasty but they're damn true, aren't they? None of the people here appreciate me telling them what's wrong with them, but I surely appreciate you telling me what's wrong with me, right?
So Bitch Goddess, basically, you're not "glorifiying eating disorders but you are glorifying skinniness"
Bitchgawdess,
Oh my GOd !!!!
my assumption was that feminism was simply women who strived for equal representation of every member in society, and the fair treatment of women and their issues....i must be terribly wrong because from a lot of these messages i'm beginning to almost think i missed something. thank goodness bitchgawdess was here to enlighten me with the real dirt.. like feminism is about body weight and facial appearances...and very terrible spelling..shucks bitchgawdess, thanks for clearing that one up!!
Bitch "Gawdess"
Yes, well....
Kate: I agree with you that not all men want skinny girls. I think if you asked a lot of men what their ideal women looked like, there would be many varied answers. Beauty is a difficult thing to define because everyone thinks something different is beautiful. And I was thinking about North America, but different cultures think different features are attractive. Like in some poorer countries it is beautiful to be fat because it means you can afford to eat well. And in some parts of the Ukraine it is beautiful for women to have a mustache. Okay, that was sort of an irrelevant fact but you get my point. Beautiful=thin and flawless is a fallacy.
Sheesh. You all can talk! And what's with the trendy spelling, BUTCH goddess? Are you just "trying to be different like everyone else?" When you take liberties by coming into someone else's forum and ripping them apart verbally, that is immature and as stupid as your spelling.
Bitch Goddess,
Bitch Gawdess,
Allright, BitchGawdess
Okay, I see someone in need of a MAJOR attitude adjustment.
Bitch Gawdess
You are speaking Bull shit-fuck off of this discussion page!
Bitch Gawdess:
all you need is love....
I'm sory to say this but love is not all you need. You need a hell of a lot more and love doesn't always cut it anyways.
I want to swim with some dolphins...:o)
So do I snowpaws! wouldn't it be fantastic? I agree with anonymous though you do need a hell of a lot more in life than love.
Chocobabe, :o)!! Just thinking about it makes me so happy.
Bitch Gwdess, you ARE NOT POPULAR, just stating a fact.
Those o that think we are fakes, a lot of us are just real to the world, exept fo the Bitch. Sure some of them are fakes but can you please refer to the ones that are instead of aiming it at the ones who just want to get a few things off their chest pease. See-Ya.
Do you really know what a feminist is, Star??? Apparently not, according to your postings.
Oh, she's right? Yeah, that's why Rosie O'Donnell got so far even though she is not skinny and blonde and "perfect". Just thought I'd mention that. (Not insulting her, just saying she doesn't fit the stereotypical idea of beauty). There are plenty of people who are successful for reasons that have nothing to do with appearance.
Holy shit!! Ya'll just chill out. The turd at the top of the page got exactally what she wanted out of some of us...RAGE. I certainly don't agree with her opinions and the disrespectful way that she presented them, but I have to give her props for making my mouth drop!
First of all, I weigh about 150 lbs (oh my god! big shock! this must mean i'm a MAN!!). I have a pretty round, curvey body and breasts. I'm not fat, I'm just on the bigger side. Whether I like that or not is a different matter, fact is that sometimes I do, I love my body and my wonderful, soft curves and think I'm perfect. Other times I think "my god am I ever fat". We all do that!! Bitch Gawdess says we're all jealous. Okay... so what? You're telling me, BG, that when a gorgeous, slender, beautiful girl walks by, that you never get jealous? Even a little? We all want what we don't have, and yah, when a beautiful girl walks along, I say "wow... I wish I looked like that". I don't say "damn that anorexic bitch!!" It's okay to be jealous once in a while, it's human nature! I also get jealous of this really smart girl I know, because she's going to make it big in life. I say "wow... I wish I could be that smart and responsible." I don't say "damn that brainiac bitch!" By the way, why do you assume that girls who use their heads must be ugly? Brains and Beauty aren't pick and choose either. And besides, everyone has a different oppinion of beauty. When I was in Japan, I thought one of the girls was absolutely gorgeous. One of the guys I was there with thought she was ugly! I think Sean Connery made a better Bond, others say Peirce Brosnan. Who's to say I'm right and they're wrong? What is *society* anywayz? We're all free thinking individuals with our own oppinions, and those oppinions can and do vary. The old saying "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" is true. Havent you met someone who you haven't found very attractive, but then you start to know them and their personality, and all of a sudden they're great looking? It's because you're ignoring the flaws... big nose, bad hair, and seeing the bright eyes and big smile instead, because you like the person!!
Nice post, Cookie monster. Well argued and well balanced. As you say, once you know someone you look past their "faults" and see what they are really like.
forget bitch gawdess, she's a sad, lonely , repressed person trying to be different just because feminism is highly talked about right now and she can't stand to be lumped in with a large movement, even if it is a great one. people criticise others to deflect and distract them from the person's own weaknesses, and it is blindingly obvious bitch gawdess is riddled with hers. She has no point whatsoever with her confused, senseless, illogical and childish anorexia-is-sexier argument so forgive me if i don't rise to it because you can't have a reasoned, sensible argument with someone who talks utter bollocks. that said, i'll move on.
Sorry Chas, but I think that women have gone a long, long way from all that. We're lawyers and doctors and high paid business people, and definately not as week as you make us sound. Sure, walking outside by yourself is dangerous, but the risk isn't as high as you think.
I have just found out that Ice-cream isn't good anymore....I used to love it, now it sucks!!!!!:o)
to Shampoo,
Chas, firstly, my sincere applause to your beginning statement regarding the bitch gawdess. It's about time someone puts an end to airhead talk. I don't see the point of following an argument of complete senselessness.
CHAS,
She's right. I live in Canada and one of my friends is going to get an arranged marraige. You gotta remember that in arranged marraiges, both the woman *and* the man get arranged.
Ok, i'll throw down the gauntlet as regards to arranged marriages. But it's true they are still happening without women's consent, decided by her parents, for the sake of conveniences, and indeed those kinds are happening in countries where lack of freedom of any sort is perpetrated - by men.
HELLO !!! !!!
Bitch gawdess,
what i thought when i saws this discussion forum was, "finally! someone has noticed what i'm thinking!" however, i come in and find someone dissing EVERYONE is here. that is such an over-generlazation! But anyway, enough people have jumped all over her ass so i don't think i need to.
Just to let you know bitch godess I am so completely jelous of the tall skinny girl ,but I am also jelous of the fat out spoken no-crap smart girl who is sooo beautiful in a much better way.You are too-I can clearly see that.you see while you are so hung up on all this you are letting life slip right through yor fingers.You need soo to stop letting yourself get taken over by this hatered inside you.Stop trying to defend the "pretty"girls cause they are just as mean just as bitchy and have just as many bad hair days as everyone else.See here is where you have made a mistake-the line between the cheerleaders and fems is soo thin sometimes you can't see it.The thing that makes the two different is guys and thats what this is really all about.They care what guys think we don't so that makes us so much stronger in every way cause its all about the men in today soceity they rule all---don't anybody deny it they do.(although they couldn't servive with out us -power from behind that's what its about girls!!)Lsten you really have to stop caring what they all think ,that way you can be happy and succsessful without having to eat one grape a day.
i agree with the first bitch, you guys are all fakes.
We are not fakes, we are just women of all ages who've found a way to express our emotions, which is more than I can say for all you 'bitches' out there. This is what we like to do - and anyway, if you are so against us, why did you come here in the first place? And why do you want to a bitch, it's much better to be a Grrrl. It's what we want to be, it's great to chat and get other people's OPINIONS.
Soph , i am right with ya !! "outta here" take a hint from yer name and get the f*ck outta here .Dont be so stupid.Awnser this why are we all fakes ?? i really wanna know why people like u are being the insensitive cows . Tell me BITCH iwanna hear it.
BG,
Sometimes I wish I was in 3rd grade. I hate caring about how I look,what I wear, and what boys think since I've started 7th grade. All girls MUST have cared about boys or looks at one time. Star, even you must want green eyes or black hair. Though some girls may seem perfect to you they probally want to change something about themselves.
I gotta say ye all are completely dense !!! I gotta agree with the 1st bitch,ye are pathatic.Ye make me sick!!!!
And *methinks* our so-called "Bitch Gawdess" is making up names and posting on her own behalf... geez, girlfriend, get a job or something.
SPARKLE,this is not the bitch goddess. i am just some 1 else whoi sees her point and ye, ye are pathetik!!!Ye go on "my boy and i broke up.It dont matter i woz 2 good 4 him anyway...He was insensitive 2 my needs.. he said my ass was fat...blah blah blah.When he really broke up with u for being a self centred bitch that happened 2 forget gguys have feelings2.Get on with it.
Sparkle,
SPARKLE,
Encore! I'm printing that one up. Too cool!
You said it, Star.
Loved your message star!How do u do that blue ink?????I know kinda off the feminism topic but still how did u do that....??
Go to the formatting link over on the left side of your screen. It tells you all about how to make alot of neat stuff.
Right you lot , i gotta say it .I seem to think that ye do occasionally say stupid things....such as " if you dont like whats written on this page piss off" , this was after ye read what sparle said...thing is ye didnt like what she said and ye told her to get lost, yet she had'nt said for all of ye to "get off this site" .....Just a thought
Personally, what I object to about Bitch Gawdess & Sparkle's posts is that they lump everyone together saying, "you all ..." etc. There are a variety of opinions, etc. here.
ANY WICCA'S HERE ....PLEASE go to " am i the only witch out here ?" in the lives and confession section. there is a piece in there that needs an oppinion( in blue by "anon." thanx
Geez, I hate writing at the end of a conversation that is super long like this one-- no one's going to read my message!
hey, my name is sparkel NOTE S-P-A-R-K-E-L and yes, it is my real name, i'm no relation of S-PA-R-K-L-E
from a male p.o.v.:
p.s., beauty and norms in one culture will definately be unattractive and strange in others. keep that in mind, bitch gawdess. you're a gawdess with a lower case g, cuz you aint a big G =P
You all ARE fakes. You all go around and say stuff like looks don't matter and that you aren't trying to be cool on the board. I would really like to see ANYONE here do in real life. But you all KNOW you are fake so you just say the shit online. You all think you are soooo smart. When you can walk the walk, then talk the talk. You can't, because you are the weak. No peer pressure, no outside influence. Now lets see it, idiots.
"Oh me oh my you make me sigh you are such a gobshite" Ni maith liom daoine a bhfuil ag magadh daoine eile.An bhfuil faidh agat??Is amadan tu !! Tiocaidh mo la .Nil aon ciall agat!! An bhfuil tu grainne??Is fuath liom daoine a magadh gach daoine eile!! Ba mhaith liom do h -on a buailadh!!Ta me alainn agus ta a lan ciall agam,ach ni dearfaidh me rudai amadach.If i were so stupid would i know that language??
To Oirio somwhere up there, I forget exactly where.
to the "anonymous" that gave the "male p.o.v.". thank you for saying what you said! you are so right, and congratulations on your attitude, i wish more people were like you.
People have freedom to say what they want & guess what? Other people have the right to react in the way they choose. This can be anything from trying to see the other person's point of view to being blunt or obnoxious, not to mention many things in between. We have choices in the rhetoric we use to express ourselves. While I don't always succeed, I do try to take a conciliatory approach and understand where the other person is coming from.
When someone is talking about something that's really painful or hard to talk about, they should be treated like everyone else all the time. Just because they are the weak doesn't mean that they get special attention.
Anon.,
Endora,
Anon.,
Endora,
Hehehe...'tis all so funny hahaha *lol*
To "I agree w/Bitch Gawdess":
Atarigrrl: Wow, what can I say? *clap clap clap*
BG- Have you EVER thought about the fact that you often see "overweight" "unattractive" men with modelesque women, and pretty much NEVER see "overweight" "unattractive" women with modelesque men? Hmmm, is there not something WRONG with that picture?!! The fact is- women have been taught to hate each other and hate themselves and be grateful when ANY man wants them, especially to marry them!!! THAT is what feminism is about! Do yourself a favor and acknowledge the fact that we are living in a world where most women are horribly deceived. Why do you see men with two dates, and never women with two dates? Why do you see men chasing women- not women chasing men? Because women are supposed to behave and be chased and chaste while the men can be fat and promiscuous. THAT is what feminism is about. Also- there is true beauty in everyone's natural state. Look at cats and dogs- they are all completely perfect and beautiful. We are the same way. We are all beautiful unless we are evil! Also, I weigh 173, GASP!!!, lbs., and I have always had all of the men I want. And they ARE the model types of men. Do not assume that the men who are around you are true to the stereotype that you claim to hate while adhering to. I bet they're all off with big fat women, chubby women, normal women, AND skinny women. Men are really as complex as women are. They are just scared sometimes to act like it on the surface because of the MACHO MYTH. I get the feeling that you haven't known too many men very well. I also get the feeling that you are about twelve. Am I close? Please learn and change before you grow a day older. Honestly, though, I think you are just trying to get a rise out of us, and that you do not really believe the tripe you put. No one with an ounce of intelligence could.
to anyone who wants to listen
Well gurlies i'v gotta say this.. my god this whole page is complete and utter shite !! I mean come on... why are ye still posting to bitch g. as it seems to be painfully odvious she is long gone.So in return i will say she had a point that wont be argued any more coz she is not going to be back to reply, i reakon.So juist get on eith yer lives and stop living for an EXPIRED arguement.
pitiful_gurl@yahoo.com
By Jane on Friday, July 3, 1998 - 10:13 pm:
By Bitchier than thou on Friday, July 3, 1998 - 11:29 pm:
Do us a favor, puke your guts up so you can get a modeling job. Oh that probably wouldn't do it for you, would it? From the tone of your note, you're obviously not happy with the way you look are you? Otherwise, why would you be attacking other people? For the record, I have friends from a variety of weight ranges, some are thin, some are round.
As for the feminism thing, feminists come in all shapes & sizes. However it looks like you've been too busy letting the media do your thinking for you to notice. Too bad.
PS You allude to Darwin. Know why people carry extra weight around? It got them through long winters. Evolution hasn't quite caught up to the concept of grocery stores & take out food.
As for the fashion/profit aspect, take a look at Renaissance paintings or even 50s film starlets. Styles change. Until people stop trying to emulate the latest "body style", they're destined to be unhappy w/themselves, whether they're fat, thin or in between. Accepting yourself is important.
By Anonymous on Saturday, July 4, 1998 - 05:20 am:
By Kate on Saturday, July 4, 1998 - 07:18 am:
And if you dont like the attitudes on this site, why do you bother coming here?
By Ayelet on Saturday, July 4, 1998 - 08:00 am:
By Anonymous on Saturday, July 4, 1998 - 08:16 am:
By Keridwyn on Saturday, July 4, 1998 - 12:46 pm:
Watch how Fit girls like her, with the long hair and skinny body, are going to survive in society, as opposed to those with actual gray matter... :-)
And ladies.. don't attack her. Isn't "femenism" about being what you want to be? Airheads are people too.
Keri :-)
By Anon. on Saturday, July 4, 1998 - 07:56 pm:
Later in life the aformentioned grey matter is far more important than fitting in w/some fashion defined body ideal. Not to mention when we start getting older & osteoperosis (sp?) becomes a problem. If you deprived your body of essential nutrients, such as calcium, in the early years, your bones may get frail, brittle & prone to breakage. As they say in theatre, break a leg "Bitch Gawdess".
By Anonymous on Sunday, July 5, 1998 - 12:38 am:
By Star on Sunday, July 5, 1998 - 01:52 am:
All I want to say here is that I have been a feminist from the day I was born... Well, maybe not the day, but ever since I can remember, anyways...
If someone is a bit chubby, well, then, and they are hapy about it, and they have self confidence, they are going to get what they want. Not everyone in society goes for the "skinny anorexic slut" or the "one grape a day heroin girl."
Trust me. I am a very thin person. I am blonde, blue eyed, and, yes, I am pretty.
But I still can't get what I want all the time. Because I don't always think I can, and I get these doubts in my head about it that totally fuck me up.
So BitchGawdess... Why don't you grow up and look around at the wrold around you.
People are different. I don't see perfect people as the only people in relationships. I don't see them as the only ones with money, or a good job, or respect, or any of the things life has to offer. And I fit your description of "someone who knows the system" pretty well. And I don't have a boyfriend or a job. But I do have respect. People respect me because I am ME. I don't change for anyone except myself, and if you can't see how that makes a difference in life, then you are really blind.
And, no, I am not a bitch. I don't go around with an attitude of "I'm better than you cause I'm myself." I go around, willing to learn, grow, and find new things and new people. And I'm honest. I don't lie to myself.
I think maybe you are just trying to justify whatever means you are using to get yourself to be that perfect person. Knock it off. That's what gets you disrepect in this world. Grow up and realize that it's not the 1800's anymore and induviduality is what gets you where you want to go, along with education. Close mindedness and a perfect body can get you a boyfriend, maybe some money, but it's not going to bring you happiness unless you are doing things for yourself that mean alot to you. Not other people
And if this confused you, I'm sorry. I have a tendency to ramble, and not everyone sees things my way.
*Star*
By Shampoo on Sunday, July 5, 1998 - 05:19 am:
But I'm a patient understanding person, and I respect your strong oppinions and fearlessness to say them when you know you're going to be condemned for them. But I really think you need a reality check. You think that skinny little girls have it all made? They don't. It doesn't matter how thin you are, boys aren't going to flock to you if all you do is eat one grape and talk about how well you fit into your clothes. Even the horndoggiest boy is going to leave when he realizes that the "system" killed her body, her mind, her self confidence, her freedom, her happiness, her body image, etc etc. Guys don't want a shell of a person, they want a girl with a personality, and yes, decent looks. But looks aren't everything, I don't care how you see it.
Jealousy? Me? I admit, I do envy those pretty girls in the magazines, but my life isn't revolved around my body or my face, what I look like. See, Gawdess, (and I'm going to say this very slowly so you can understand), in the *real world*, where not everyone is a model, you can't get by on your looks only. See, if you're a doctor, you need a *brain*. See the difference?
Beauty Brain
A girl can't prosecute someone with her perfect bouncy hair. She can't program a computer with her long, shapely legs. She can't dive for sea floor specimens with her skinny pencil arms. And in 20 years when she's wrinkled and senile from cigarettes and heroin, do you think she will have figured out the system?
Here's something you might not know: not everyone is born drop dead gorgeous. In your reasoning that means we're bad people and are never going to amount to anything because we're "uglee". Without all that crap on their face, supermodels look just like us. We might not be famous and have our face plastered on every bus, but we'll have careers, make money, have a family and be satisfied with our lives. And that's all you can ask for.
To make a long story short, Gawdess, you are one messed up girl. I suggest you get your head screwed on right and see things for what they really are. Either that or see a professional, you've got a problem with body image, and I mean that from the bottom of my heart, please change your attitude, you are only hurting yourself.
I hope you learn that happiness isn't found in going on a one grape diet and shooting heroin so that the entire world can scrutinize your skinny body. Happiness is found in loving yourself and your body for what it can do, not for what it looks like. All of us are beautiful, because the human body is so wonderfully made and can do and experience so much, from the taste of an *incredibly fattening lucious delicious creamy cheesecake* to the feeling of scaling the highest mountain or dancing or standing on your head. All things you can't do when your body has wasted away.
By Marsha on Sunday, July 5, 1998 - 05:15 pm:
I just wanted to say that message kicked serious ass!!!
By Star on Sunday, July 5, 1998 - 05:29 pm:
Well, then, you kick ass too! Thanks for seeing things my way! Even though I'm not about that attitude of "I'm right, you're wrong." It's still nice to know that there are people out there who think like me!
J Have a great day!
*Star*
By Bitch Gawdess on Monday, July 6, 1998 - 03:11 pm:
Another question, I didn't say anything about brain power, why are you all saying it beats out beauty? Following the stereotypes, are you? That skinny and beautiful equalz dumb? So, is that it? Are you all too terrified of being thought of as dumb to try and make yourself look good? Cauze through all thoze posts, that's the impression that I get... the dumb blonde cheerleader, right? Ever consider the sheer idea that someone can have beauty and brainz? I donubt it, you're all seeming to be a lil too caught up in your sheer hate for the pretty grrrlz....I'm surprised that all you "femenists" are keeping up the most popular stereotype of all, thanx for helping out your fellow wimmin there, since that's what you're trying to do, right?
By Shampoo on Monday, July 6, 1998 - 04:15 pm:
Sorry, Gawdess, I know what you're saying and I agree that it is a problem, but I don't think it's that bad. I dont think beauty equals no brains, I know a lot of beautiful girls who are very smart. And I don't think anyone here actually put down "beautiful people" just because theyre beautiful, but there are some girls out there who do act incredibly dumb and that is so frustrating to some of us who are trying to *abolish* those stereotypes.
By Anonymous on Monday, July 6, 1998 - 04:40 pm:
By Dreaming on Monday, July 6, 1998 - 09:24 pm:
A great line from a feminists is -"Women's greatest enemies are not men, they're women."
We won the vote, we have equal opprotunity (at least in Western society) now there's only one thing left: "The Beauty Myth" It is the one thing that keeps women from loving each other and it is a huge part of man's empowerment over us. Did anyone see the cover of time? Three unflattering black and white pictures of respected feminists next to a glossy of Ally McBeal? the message is this: Beauty is an issue because women continue to make it an issue.
Niomi Wolf (wrote the beauty myth) is a goregeos feminist. In a recent interview she was asked how she felt about her not being the typical face of feminism and blah blah She exploded! It was great. She practically screamed: Let the look thing GO!
As far as I'm concerened neither looks nor brains = empowerment. Its security, self-esteem, spirituality and whats in the soul-not the face or the head.
By Anonymous on Monday, July 6, 1998 - 09:31 pm:
By Lee on Monday, July 6, 1998 - 10:11 pm:
Also, a lot of the discussions are purely supportive, rather than sniping. Guess "Bitch Gawdess" didn't read them.
Bitch Gawdess continues by stereotyping feminists. Trying to categorize feminists is like trying to categorize Christians. Christianity encompasses everything from Fundamentalists to Unitarians. Bitch Gawdess, would you lump them all into one category?
As for the commodification of looks, I belong to the commodify none or commodify all school. Think about it, we live in a society where both Kate Moss & Kate Winslow are considered extreme, although both are attractive & perfectly normal & healthy. By contrast, John Candy & Chris Farley whose obesity contributed towards their premature deaths could be leading men. Jim Carey is considered a natural leading man while news articles wonder if Jeananne Garafolo (sp?) is pretty!!! Give me a break!!!
Men want to judge women on their looks? Fine! As Salt & Pepa said to men trying out for their videos, "turn around so we can see your butt!"
One of the local cable channels here runs a plastic surgeon's ad. The ad compares women's faces, etc. to a classic car which must be preserved. It's offensive enough until we see the plastic surgeon at the end--a balding, aging guy w/a big nose. Yeah folks, that's who's helping to determine the standard of beauty you should live up to. Bitch Gawdess, if you want to turn the definition of your beauty over to some balding, aging big nosed guy, go right ahead & subscribe to it. I personally choose to rip that subscription card out of the magazine & burn it.
P.S. if there's anyone in the NYC area who wants to do a satire of the plastic surgeon's ad, please contact me at lee5@compuserve.com. I'm thinking something along the lines of Stephen King's Christine. We could do a video of a well preserved woman who kills & run it on cable access, what do you say?
PPS sorry this is so long, I'll step off the soap box now
By Mandy on Monday, July 6, 1998 - 11:36 pm:
I've read your comment along with the others here, and I need to know whether or not you actually know what feminism or a feminist is? Because it certainly does not sound like you do with your mindless comment.
I think if a person is going to "down" or "dog to the curb" someone then they should at least get their facts straight and not totally rely on mythical stereotypes. Which you have NOT done.
For example, you said, "I've got newz for all you wannabe tough femenist grrrrrrrrlz, no ones gonna change for a 150 pound is-that-a-girl-or-a-boy with bleached short hair and a way-too-strong-to-pull-off attitude." How can someone be a "wannabe" feminist? *LOOK AT THE SPELLING TOO PLEASE: FEMINIST. its NOT feMENist*
There are so many form of feminism that its unbelieveable especially when someone tries to call someone a "wanna be" feminist. Also your stereotype "butch" feminist. Where in the hell did you get that figure too grrl? Shit!150 he/she..you've really got to clear out your eyes along with your brain. and the no ones going to change thing, geez! no ones going to change for some run of the mill flashy model especially when now in your perfect world theirs supposedly one on every corner. people change when they are educated not when they get critically judgemental
You really have no clue what feminism is about and i suggest until you do that you keep your mindless apathetic comments to yourself and your lonely shadow because we who do have some understanding of the vast topic of feminism do not have time to waste on those not willing to be educated!!!
Your character tells me that you are another judger...so i "assume" that along with your survival of the fittest theory your go along with the heterosexual assumption/gender norms/ and the whole judge or be judges ideology?right or wrong.
*Different feminist perspectives address to varying degrees the main source of female opression in society, and to come to very different conclusion about how gener inequality can be resolved. They all share in common, though a regonition that it is in the areas of biological reproduction and paid labor that the main problems and their solutions seem to lie.*
Now bitch Goddess try and comprehend and wrap around your tiny little finger what everyone here has been yelling at you and then when you learn to accept that not everyone is as blind as yourself we will then try and tolerate some sort of conversation with you. Other than that your rude remarks should be written with cheap lipstick on some gas station rest room for unknown patriants to read. Thankyouverymuch!
mandy
By MonkeyGod on Tuesday, July 7, 1998 - 12:00 pm:
By Laurel on Tuesday, July 7, 1998 - 12:14 pm:
Bitch Gawdess says that being skinny will get you far in life, but that's such a fallacy. What I want most is to get into university and publish a novel. Appearance doesn't matter for those things.
By Bitch Gawdess on Tuesday, July 7, 1998 - 03:56 pm:
By Marsha on Tuesday, July 7, 1998 - 04:19 pm:
By Star on Tuesday, July 7, 1998 - 05:05 pm:
Let me tell you a little about myself. I am tall, thin, blonde, with a nice smile and *pretty hair*. I have brains, I get good grades, and I have common sense. And I am a feminist.
Not because I'm ugly. I'm not. Not because I need a *way* to get back at the men who ditched me. Actually, I've made friends with almost all of my exes. I am a feminist because I believe that women deserve the same rights as men and I think that it is good to support my sisters.
I don't hold it against the grrls that get the guys I want and say, "Oh, he only wants her cause she has big tits... What a slut." I am not speaking for anybody else on this board, but I don't think that feminism is about not caring about your appearance. Appearance does count in this world, and we all realize that. Looking neat, fresh and clean will always give you a better chance at getting a job than looking sloppy, fatigued, and dirty.
Feminism, (Again, to me, I only know my opinions...) is about being female, but each and every person has to decide what that means to them. There is no set definition and no set way to be "As a feminist." Most feminists that I know are not butched 150 lb. he-shes. Yeah, I know some grrls like that and I am friends with them too. If that's the way they want to be then that is fine. It is their decision to make and not mine and I have no right or reason to criticize them for doing what makes them happy.
Generalizations are not a good thing for anybody to be making here and I think that it would be good if we all stopped that right now. Feminism is not going to get any further if women are constantly at each other's throats. If we want to improve the way women are treated in this world then we all have to get together and demand it. Advances are being made, but you have to remember that for every single argument between us grrls is only causing the advancements to slow.
So, Bitch Goddess, I think you need to take the time and realize that we are not about *brains* only. Yeah, brains are a good thing and I would take them any day over being gorgeous. Nobody gets to pick what they want, though, so I really don't think we should criticize those that *cannot* quite understand the way things are. And believe me, there are plenty of dumb ugly grrls too. But they have emotions and thought and feeling, just like the pretty smart grrls, just like the pretty, not so smart grrls, and just like the not so pretty smart grrls...
Grrls come in all shapes and sizes and intelligence levels. But instead of emphasizing our differences, shouldn't we be celebrating how we are alike together? Not arguing over who is right and who is wrong? Can we all at least try to agree to work at that much?
So, Bitch Gawdess, I really hope that this helped you realize something, anything, about what feminism (at least in my eyes,) is. Hopefully you can see things better from a different standpoint than your own. I don't know exactly what yours is, but I would be happy to talk to you about it...
Always Open,
*Star*
By Lee on Tuesday, July 7, 1998 - 08:57 pm:
I'm moderately overweight, but I don't hate thin people. In fact, a good friend of mine is often mistaken for an anorexic because she works out a lot & has a high metabolism. However, she has much more muscle, etc. than an anorexic would. I agree that people can be just as nasty to thin women as they are to heavier women.
Once she told me about how her & her cousin w/a similiar build ate a large meal at a restaurant. People were staring at them & she said you could practically hear them whispering about them.
If people are thin, I figure it's because of one of the following 3 reasons:
1) they work out a lot/eat a balanced diet
2) they have high metabolisms
3) they have an eating disorder
I'm not jealous or hostile to reasons 1 or 2 as they either have more self-discipline or luck than I do. Rather than wasting the energy on envy, I'd rather expend it some where else, like the gym (I've recently joined one through my employer). As for reason no. 3, I'd feel bad for the person because there are a lot of health problems.
As I mentioned before, our society is so weird that Kate Moss is disparaged as too thin, while Kate Winslet is disparaged as too heavy. Both claims are nonsense. They're both attracitve. Meanwhile guys like John Candy & Chris Farley got to play leading men. Do you not see anything wrong w/this picture? If you think we should just accept the status quo, does that go for pay inequity, etc?
Also, why are you so shocked that people had a negative reaction to you? You characterized everyone who particpates as catty, fat & ugly. Did you think people were going to put the welcome mat out for you after that one? Btw, as for the cattiness w/in the feminism bit, I don't disagree that that's a problem. A prime example was the reaction to Paula Jones. IMHO, NOW only seems to care about women who have the right hairstyles, accents, etc. They're as bad, if not worse, than a glossy fashion magazine. That doesn't mean feminism as a whole should be condemned though.
As for personal experience, I was in a grad school program which was considered "feminist friendly."
I haven't seen cattiness like that since junior high. I was a favorite target because I was friends w/a bunch of the guys. We had one prima donna who always wanted to know who was going to be there,etc. when I extended a social invitation to her. This would result in at least 5 phone calls for a simple let's meet at the bar night. Eventually, I gave up & stopped asking her. One night, 3 of the guys were at my house for dinner & a study session & she called. When she heard who was there, she said "you've got all the good looking men over there, don't you.?" Yeah & she would've been there w/them if she didn't hem & haw so much! Meanwhile, the guys considered me one of the guys, despite the fact that I wear makeup, etc.
PS for the record, my joining a gym doesn't indicate an acceptance of "ideal" appearance. I just want to be healthier & stronger. My goals are rather moderate. I'm 165 lbs now (at 5'8) & my eventual goal (w/in the next year) is anywhere between 130-150 lbs. I'm not focusing on a scale, I'm focusing on eating/exercise habits. I hadn't been getting much exercise because I work full-time & I'm studying for a MS degree part-time. I may be a bit heavy now, but that degree is going to get me further than being thin would.
By Olivia on Tuesday, July 7, 1998 - 11:22 pm:
I agree with most of what you said, except for one thing. When you brought up Paula Jones you sort of hit a sore spot with me. NOW and Gloria Steinem have continuously said that Paula Jones doesn't have a sexual harassment case...many forms of the media and many people are shocked by this. They are shocked because they are making the assumption that feminists support other women because they are women. It is my belief that I, as a feminist, support other women because they have valid points. I am NOT saying that Paula Jones was not sexually harassed--only two people really know that; however, what NOW and Gloria Steinem said was that she didn't have a case in a court of law. And lo and behold, THE COURTS AGREED. Go figure--NOW and GS were right. To assume NOW and GS were being catty instead of being knowledgable about the law is a dangerous thought. Believe it or not, a woman can KNOW HER STUFF...and it's frightening when other women feed into stereotypes. I am not busting on you--you seem quite intelligent. Just think about my argument for a bit and let me know what you think--Nothing beats an intelligent conversation!
LOVE!! Olivia
By Lady_die on Wednesday, July 8, 1998 - 08:47 am:
So you thik it's fucking normal to be anorexic??!!
Have you EVER lost your best friend to anorexia?? Well I fucking did!!!!!!
And that's not NORMAL? Is taht the way it has to be?? That hasn't got anything to do with your "Survival of the fittest"
I fucking weigh 48 kilo's and I'm 1.75 meter,and I'm a FUCKING FEMINIST! And I eat and eat and eat my brains out,'cause I wanna be FAT,you hear,FAT.
And then I'm gonna sit right on the top of your head with my fat ass!!
And I'm gonna dance around naked and I'm NOT gonna cry in front of the mirror like you.
FUCK YOU Bitch gawdess,FUCK YOU
I'M a RIOT GRRRRRRRRRRRL
By MonkeyGod on Wednesday, July 8, 1998 - 02:15 pm:
By Marsha on Wednesday, July 8, 1998 - 02:47 pm:
PS Lady die- Is your real name AJ?
By Anonymous on Wednesday, July 8, 1998 - 05:38 pm:
NOT a pretty thing. There is nothing beautiful about a 5'10" 98 pound person ramming their fingers up there throats and throwing up the little food they've consumed along with blood and stomach acids which eventually rot their teeth away. There is nothing beautiful about having nothing to eat all day and fainting from malnutrition all from wanting to have a barbie dolls figure. There is nothing pretty about eating disorders period!!! I am a feminist and I don't
hate "skinny" girls as you seem to think all feminist do. I'm also not a 150 Lb. is-that-a-boy-or-a-girl-with bleached blonde short hair.
I happen to be one of those "skinny" girls. But it hurts me to see that some people out there actually think there is a "good" side to anorexia.
I have been accused by many people of having eating disorders, and that hurts me too, because I would never degrade my body or myself like that.
Bitch Gawdess- you talk about getting far in the world by being beautiful and thin and eating one grape a day. But what about being happy? I think having happiness in your life and accepting yourself is getting far in the world. And if you go ask that "heroin girl model who spends 5 hours at the gym and eats one grape" if she's happy, I guarantee you she's not! You said "wouldn't it be great to see a skinny, beautiful, long haired feminist" well there are! You accuse us of "feeding the stereotypes", but it seems to me that you also have a stereotype that all feminist are the "150 butch boy/girl, etc." feminist, well there are some of those too! But instead of looking at these womens looks and stereotyping them in that way, we should all be coming together for one common goal, to get as equal a footing as men in this world. Not to say women are better, and women rule, and men suck. Or even skinny is better, or pretty is better. Learn to look at people souls and not categorize them according to how they look on the outside, but for how beautiful they are on the inside.
Okay enough sappiness.
By Ally the great on Wednesday, July 8, 1998 - 06:13 pm:
By Lee on Wednesday, July 8, 1998 - 09:04 pm:
I wasn't referring to NOW or Gloria Steinem's legal interpretations. It was more along the lines of what was NOT said. The reaction was quite different than the way people reacted when Anita Hill came forward during the Clarence Thomas hearings. Hill had the support of mainstream feminism, while Jones didn't.
Both cases were classic he said/she said scenarios, but the reactions were quite different. As you've mentioned, I think only the particpants really know what happened. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts/opinions on why reaction was so different to Hill & Jones. Personally, I think it has a lot to do w/their images & the fact that one was an Ivy League law school prof. & the other was a secretary. I fear classism is only too alive & well in some portions of feminism.
By Kat on Wednesday, July 8, 1998 - 09:33 pm:
By Snowpaws on Thursday, July 9, 1998 - 12:13 am:
QUIT FIGHTING ABOUT POINTLESS CRAP!!!!
By Bitch Gawdess on Thursday, July 9, 1998 - 02:21 pm:
Alright, is this getting boring and repetitive to anyone else?
Snowpaws: You go fix the battered earth, m'dear, I'll just sit here and laugh at you....
For all of you panicking about the eating disorder topic, let me get one thing straight: I AM NOT GLORIFYING EATING DISORDERS. I am glorifying skinniness, cauze that's what society as a whole doez want (oh, wait, sorry, that and brainz, right? almost forgot about that one!) How you chooze to acheive the skinniness goal is completely up to you, there are many choices, and if you make the wrong one you end up dead, right?
Anon: Happiness is a good point, but you can't assume that any situation won't make someone happy, so as far as we know one grape a day heroin girl could be completely elated with ther current situation, just cauze you wouldn't be doesn't mean she isn't......
Lady Die: Thank gawdess someone finally posted a message that didn't cauze me to fall asleep! Yes, I have had many friendz die from anorexia and overdoses... that doesn't make skinniness any less prominent in our society, doez it? Woo hoo my first threat!
Lee: OH MY SHEER JOY!!!! "Rather than wasting the energy on
envy, I'd rather expend it some where else, like the gym" Thankyouverymuch my darling for making that point!!! A point I've been trying to make since I got here! Instead of whining about how guilty you feel about eating that chocolate cake, go out and exercise it off!!! If you feel fat, stop whining and moping and do something about it! Heh, heh, heh, I actually have a point in common with someone on this site... gawd, i feel like a lozer....
Star: I would spit on you if I saw you in real life.. "Let's sit down and talk"? you feeling alright? Do you think talking to me in a patronizing voice is gonna make me agree with you anymore? Geez, thanx so much for shoving your opinionz down my throat, now would you actually listen to mine? Who died and made you official all knowing gawdess? Certainly not me....
By Anonymous on Thursday, July 9, 1998 - 04:59 pm:
See now that clears things up a little, for me at least. And I don't think people don't want to hear/listen to your opinions it's just that with the tone of your mesage it just kinda pisses some people off. People don't want to be told what's wrong with them, and I personally feel that they don't have to be. Not here, cuz this is a place where people can come and fit in and feel alright with themselves.
However I do have to say I agree that people, in general, should stop whining about whatever and get up and do something about it. I just don't agree with telling people they're pathetic, pitiful, losers. Cause if you're gonna be that damn mean about it, then you're just asking for all the attacks you got.
By Wominist on Thursday, July 9, 1998 - 08:57 pm:
you're not worthy of the name. It takes more then being jaded, bitter and pissing off the nrrdgrrls. Little bitch girl would be better.
Nrrdgrrls,
"Nrrdgrrl is a place where people can come and feel alright about themeselves." Ha ha Anytime I start feeling alright about myself I stick a hot poker up my ass and say: Ahh that's more like life!"
One thing about men, they sure know how to appreciate beauty better then women. A guy can recognize and celebrate male and female beauty while women are never satisfied and are always envious. If I see an attractive woman (and I'm not gay or bi) I don't think "Damn I wish I was that attractive" or "I hate her" I think "Damn she's beautiful." Period. All *natural* beauty is a gift from God, enjoy it! If your fat and/or ugly you should love beauty even more!
You guys are sweeter then a box of choclates, and just as nausiating. Don't write "I'm sooo sorry" or "I see it your way but.." Write: "I think you're wrong" It doesn't matter who's right anyway, it's who can be more convincing, more intelligent.
Ode to Little Bitch Girl for her kick in the ass...even if it was with a stinky little foot.
By Iloveboyz on Friday, July 10, 1998 - 03:29 am:
I knew that there were feminest people out there but this one is tooooooo much. She may call us names but ................... what is she doing on here if she isn't any of that?? That is what i wi\ould like to no! So is she one of us or one of those 1cm waisr\t people or is she a man we don't kbnoiw but s/he chose a good name BITCH suits her fine!
I just can't stand people standing in the way f others having fun or helpng each other!
So what does she want
1. a load of unhappy people not being able to help eacxh other
2. a load of happy people as they have been helping each other gert through the bad times
I am preety sure that she wants no 1. But you never can be sure well so long!
Sarah
By StarVamp on Friday, July 10, 1998 - 04:40 am:
By Kate on Friday, July 10, 1998 - 06:33 am:
Who says society wants skinniness??? My partner certainly does not want skinniness, in fact he absolutely HATES these skinny little WRETCHES who are as likely to snap in half when they have vigourous sex. I am fat. I have superb sex with my partner. I have never been short of admirers and have been able to pick and choose my boyfriends. I am attractive. I am fit. I know these things because I am confident in myself and other people tell me these things as well.
People come in all shapes and sizes. Accept that. Body shape is NOT the defining factor of anything. And if the reason you're posting this shit is because you think that the only way to get a man is to be skinny THEN YOU ARE WRONG.
In fact to judge someone by looks alone is WRONG. You are so superficial, I dont actually believe you exist and you are posting this crap as a wind up.
Get real, look around you at society. Very few people meet the "perfect profile" that you are ranting about. There are plenty of people who are likely to be far happier than you are who are not your skinny diet freaks.
I glory in my curves. I am womanly, I look wonderful in low cut tops. I have SHAPE. Men appreciate the way I look as much as they appreciate the way anyone else looks. Get this into your head.
Kate The Goddess
PS I think you should try this link if you dont believe men find fat women attractive
http://www.pencomputing.com/dim/weightbbs/config.pl
By Lya on Friday, July 10, 1998 - 10:21 am:
BEING A FEMINIST MEANS NOT SELLING OUT TO THE IDEAL OF PERFECTION THAT THE WORLD HAS. THE DAY YOU FIND ME PLAYING SERVANT TO SOME GUY WHO BEATS ME AND CALLS ME WORTHLESS BECAUSE *I* DON'T FIT SOME LAME JERK'S IDEA OF "perfect" IS THE DAY I STOP CALLING MYSELF "Pro-Woman's Rights".
BEING A RIOTGRRL IS ABOUT NOT BEING PERFECT TO EVERYONE, JUST BEING PERFECT TO YOURSELF!
AND BEING A WOMAN IS HAVING THE POWER TO CONTROL YOUR LIFE, NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS!!!!
And jealousy?
Sounds to me like you have a major problem of that yourself. ;)
Have a nice day.
By Laurel on Friday, July 10, 1998 - 11:13 am:
By Anonymous on Friday, July 10, 1998 - 11:21 am:
By Mandy on Saturday, July 11, 1998 - 07:50 am:
You can have your say all you want, but I really doubt that anyone will see it your way. Whether they are "feminist" or just some radom page surfer. The point your making is fallacious.
You seem to think that looking like barbie is a "good thing" because everyone knows Barbie can be anything with the change of an outfit. Well maybe it is a good thing to look like Barbie [slim/slender/supposedly healthy], but maybe its not.
What made you spit out that noxious post? Are you disturbed that some females would rather look average and not have to work on the outer image in order to get them somewhere in life? Or is it the fact that they actually do get somewhere by doing what they want with themselves without having to conform to ideologies such as yours? Your calling of jealousy can be mirrored back towards yourself now. Doesn't feel to good!
You seem to *want* to know what your talking about. But you only really know what your talking about from your own side.As much as anyone else are talking from theirs. You continously bring up the point of being skinny as though being skinny isn't a right its a privilage and if you can't handle it then..good riddance! Your points/reasons for being skinny seem quasi-intelligent, which is only because there is some partial truth to the myths of being fat or skinny.
But it is people like you, telling everyone else that they *MUST* be skinny producing such a unruly can of worms. Telling someone that they aren't worth the cost in life just because of a little extra body weight does not give them the confidence boost they need to shed what had never bother them until the rude comments dropped in earshot by the so called perfect people. If anything it kills them. Either dragging them down with anorexia, depression of knowing/thinking that they aren't worth life is enough to do one out five people.
And even though you say it does, not *all* of society wants women to be skinny little love dolls who look so good wrapped in lace and placed on shelf for looking, or waif like china dolls that are used for regular boxing matches or tackeling dummies then hidden in the closet so no one else can see the shame of her happiness. People get bored with one thing. We *need variety and if everyone were the *ideal perfect weight that variety would obviously not be there. Then what? Society will force people to cut off a limb for some variety...or at least mutilate one person so that they would have someone to poke fun at for not looking like them.
Society just isn't that perfect itself to want everyone else to be perfect. Skinny or fat doing what is right/healthy for yourself..actually for yourself should be all that matters. not the conforming of bitter past rituals.
Would you rather this site be a posting place for cyber sex?Some Hot Talk? Or things along those lines? If you do not like one particular thread of messages don't continue to read them. When your bombarded with fools looking for cybersex and other deeds over a computer, a site like NrrdGrrl is quite a refreshing break. Or at least for those who respect the fact that not everyone believes or values the same things as themselves, without that respect you'll end up becoming sick like yourself BitchGoddess. But that does not make us fakes. thankyouverymuch for you semi-supported opinion.
vexatious femme
By Lee on Saturday, July 11, 1998 - 09:55 am:
At this point you seem to be flaming just for the sake of flaming. Your response to Star was especially rude. You'd "spit" at her if you ever met her irl? She made an attempt to try to understand your point of view & was rather polite to you.
As for feeling like a loser because you have something in common w/me, that must be your own insecurities talking, because I'm most certainly not a loser. Let's see, within the last year, I changed jobs because I didn't like the way I was being treated. I ended up in a better job, where I'm learning new skills & doing more interesting work. I have a really nice group of co-workers & a higher salary (& benefits too, including the aforementioned gym).
While working full-time, I'm going to school part-time for a MS. I managed to get straight As this past semester. While I like my current job, this degree will open even more possibilities for me when I finish it (probably May 1999). I've got a great group of friends & we hang out a lot. It's a mix of men & women & we're always there for each other. Some of my friends & I are thinking of taking a nice trip somewhere when I finish my degree.
Expressing your opinion is fine. I may not agree w/it, but I'm open to dialogue. However, you really need to get a sense of maturity, civility & nettiquette before anyone can really "talk w/you." Calling people fat, loser, ugly & saying you'd spit on them is only going to make people ignore what you're saying.
By Star on Saturday, July 11, 1998 - 03:00 pm:
Now it's more like "Get your ass over here so I can shove my foot up it."
Fucking Piece of Shit. That's what you are. You have no brains. Can't you see that I was trying to be nice to you and actually get your opinions and thoughts? Or are you that thick headed that you couldn't even get that through your head.
Let me make a point here.
I am not saying that society views fat as beautiful.
Society as a whole views thin as pretty. But there are people out there that like women with a softness and curves and all that fun stuff. I have anorexic friends too. I'm watching one of my best friends die to it. I'm not looking for pity or compassion. I'mjust lettin gyou know the facts.
What some of us are trying to do is make society realize that you don't have to be 5'10" and 86 lbs to be beautiful... Healthy should be attractive and if you don't agree with that fine.
And maybe if you read my whole post you would realize that I said "I don't know exactly what yours [your stand] is, but I would be happy to talk to you about it.
I was NOT trying to be patronizing, I was actually trying to see what your views are besdies "The anorexic girl is going to get everything..." And if, oh wonderful Bitch Gawdess, you have had friends die from anorexia, why the fuck are you glorifying it? Especially if you think all the girls here are giving each other "false cheezy advice.." when you seem to think we are all fat ugly "butched" he-shes who want to be thin... That just makes no sense to me at all.
I was trying to get your opinion in a calm clear way, because I didn't quite get everything you said. I wanted to have a calm rational discussion. I wasn't trying to change your beliefs but I was only trying to show you mine and make sure you understood.
But if you think that your way is the best way, well, then fine. Go starve your self to death so that you can get ahead in this world. When you die from malnutrition and there is no flesh left to even rot in your coffin except your skin and your your brain(but we all can see that it must not be very big because you aren't intelligent enough to know that you're not going to get anywhere in this world by being a close minded little wench.) I'll be glad, because people like you, in my opinion, would be better off dead. Maybe, then, you might have a chance to start over and havean openmind. If you can't even open your mind to different views, how can you open yourself to life? I can't imagine that you enjoy yourself...There are other ways to do it, but if you choose to be so blind as to not see them,
well, then, Fuck you. It's women like you who stop things from happening with your negative attitudes.
Have fun eating a grape a day.
*Star*
By Webmistress on Saturday, July 11, 1998 - 11:23 pm:
Bitch Gawdess, it really is people like YOU that give FEMINISM a bad name. How the hell are people to take the movement seriously with tweaks like you going about, purposely (or accidentally, if you're that ignorant) misspelling words ('cuz it's just so darn trendy to say "grllz" instead of "girls") and agreeing with the fucking white male establishment.
I have an idea! I'm going to call myself a feminist and AGREE with the media that makes women look like little, helpless, controllable girls. Sure, that'll make some progress!
Lazy? Feminists are anything BUT lazy. It's ignorant morons such as yourself that make it that much harder to gain any headway.
Get a life. Get a brain. And while you're at it, get a fucking spell-checker. I heard they come free with clues.
By Anonymous on Sunday, July 12, 1998 - 12:21 pm:
glorify any damn thing you please. you know we don't agree, so don't do it here. just go away and stop being the bitch that you are.
By Anonymous on Wednesday, July 15, 1998 - 01:54 pm:
By Snowpaws on Thursday, July 16, 1998 - 01:13 am:
Quit worrying about other people, worry about yourself or something important. No one cares about how you feel about them...
By Anonymous on Saturday, July 18, 1998 - 10:15 pm:
By Anonymous on Sunday, July 19, 1998 - 08:58 pm:
By Snowpaws on Sunday, July 19, 1998 - 09:19 pm:
By Chocobabe on Tuesday, July 21, 1998 - 02:38 pm:
By Snowpaws on Thursday, July 23, 1998 - 09:38 am:
By Rhiannon on Saturday, July 25, 1998 - 03:33 pm:
By Rhiannon on Saturday, July 25, 1998 - 03:37 pm:
By Faroza on Monday, July 27, 1998 - 09:24 pm:
I pity you......
Bitch Gawdess probably scared YOU because she is RIGHT!!!
By Laurel on Tuesday, July 28, 1998 - 10:36 am:
And going back to her first message, I don't fit her stereotype. I consider myself to be a feminist in some ways, but it is also obvious to whoever sees me that I'm a girl. I like long skirts and I wear lipstick every day. And I wear perfume and dye my hair (red, not blonde). I don't think feminists have to look masculine. Of course if they want to, that's okay. I'm just saying it's dumb to stereotype.
By Katie on Tuesday, July 28, 1998 - 02:02 pm:
By Cookie monster on Tuesday, July 28, 1998 - 10:02 pm:
Okay, so according to all the magazine pictures, the skinnier the better. Well I disagree, and I know a lot of people who are the same. Sure, thin is nice... if you were born that way and that's how you're healthy, great!! But if you were genetically programmed with a bigger body, no amount of excercize is going to shrink that pelvic bone of yours or make your ribs smaller. SORRY!! If you were born to be big, then be big, and still look good. There's a difference between being "FAT" and being "BIG"!! If you're healthy and active and you're still big, then you're not fat, you're nice and fit! If you're small and petite but strong cuz you're healthy and work out, then you're not a skinny little anorexic girl, you're just letting your body do it's own thing!
The way it is is that if you were born to be 5'2", 150 lbs with short black hair, no matter how hard you try, you wont ever be 5'10", 105 lbs with long blonde hair. You wont. And that's okay! If all the girls (notice i said "girls" and not "grrlz") were tall blonde and thin, this world will be very, very boring. Oh, and I just thought of something.
In your oppinion, Bitch Gawdess, tall blonde and thin is the ideal. What does that say about asian, african and indian girls? What about Italiens and Brazillians? They wont ever make it in this world? You're wrong on that one.
Don't get me wrong, BG, I like your posts and I think you have a really clear view of reality. Yes, in this world, it's the supermodels that are thought of as ideal. That's how it is, I'm not denying that and I think that those girls who say "looks don't matter, it's what's inside that counts" are wishfully thinking. Because looks do matter, but where you're wrong is that they're not everything. Only what... 5% of women today are supermodels, the rest of us are just average. So then how come we're all making it big and being successful? It's because we've got good business sense, or because we like science or are really good in math. Supermodels are really successful too, and I'm sure they've got good brains... they must, because they've gotten up there. But they choose to rely on their looks for income, and there's nothing wrong with that. Maybe in 5 years they'll get tired of posing and want to learn a trade or find a different career. Now they're using their *brains*.
Bitch Gawdess was right on a lot of things, I admit. Why are we all bashing skinny girls and calling them anorexic? We're all women, fat thin tall short, we're all girls! Kate Moss look-a-likes aren't monsters or maybe a different species, they're girls too. It's only when someone starves themselves to be thin that they're anorexic. You're not anorexic if you've got good metabolism.
So anywayz, I've talked too much. I'm gonna end with something I noticed when I was on my trip to Japan: My body, with it's curves and bigness was the envy of all the cute little thin Japanese girls. I felt big and bulky, but they loved my body. Here in Canada, I would love a body like theirs. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. They also don't shave in Germany, Germans like that. Canadian/US *society* calls for being hairless. The moral of the story is that if you try to conform to society's standards, you will fail. Don't forget that ideal beauty changes with time. The girls of the 30's and 40's were round and curvy with full cheeks and all that. Today it's the "waif" look that's in. Tomorrow, who knows?
By Kate on Wednesday, July 29, 1998 - 07:14 am:
Its the whole person thing. The way you look is really just the packaging on the outside.
Well thats my 2 pence worth
By Chas on Saturday, August 1, 1998 - 11:06 am:
I just want to talk about feminism. my brother often spouts a lot of shit about how women should be in the kitchen, usually just to piss off the females in the family. while i know he's just shooting his mouth off, i realise what dangerous views there are out there, and they're held by those in power - men. it's obvious we've got a long way to go else we would be in equal numbers as men in law practise, huge corporate companies, computing, airlines, art, music, writing, even acting - and be getting paid just as much. as it is, we're not. we're nowhere near it. and everyday women are beaten up, mugged and raped by men because of our physical, and often mental weakness. it makes me wanna hurl. but it also makes me want to do something positive. it's proven that us girls do better in school than boys, at least here in the uk anyway. but apparently once we leave, we don't use those brains any more. girls get pregnant and marry at 16 and become rundown housewifes living on benefit. or they accept being secretaries for male bosses, and don't even try to do better, thinking they've got to stay like that just cos that's the way it went before. i'm lucky enough to go to a good school, but on my DAD's money. when i've got my qualifications, i'll have a brilliant enough job to pay for my kids to go to a good school, and it'll be hubby who looks after them. idealistic? i don't give a fuck. uncommon doesn't have to mean impossible. anyway after one of my brother's speeches i realised i had to get physically stronger too - not to start violence, but to be prepared to ward it off. in the absence of dumbells, i pump bricks and building blocks so i'll be ready for any wanker waiting in a dark alley ready to try it on. don't be lulled into the sexist ways of a society of crap. change the way it goes - that's what i'm doing right now.
By Shampoo on Saturday, August 1, 1998 - 07:16 pm:
By Snowpaws on Sunday, August 2, 1998 - 12:55 am:
By Chas on Tuesday, August 4, 1998 - 10:17 am:
i don't want to make women sound weak, i'm trying to defend us. but you've still got to face facts and see the whole picture. The point is, the number of women lawyers, doctors and high paid business owners are a small fraction of the males in those occupations. They still have the upper hand, which is why i say we can't just sit back and say, 'we've come far enough, let's just leave it now.'There are still women who let themselves have arranged marriages in less developed cultures, who still don't realise that we're not objects, we might not even WANT to marry and when we do it should be our choice. As someone entirely unreligious, i have to say the fact that women believe in things that totally disrespect us - Christianity, Judaism, Islam and Sikhism are just a few sexist religions - sucks big time. And i'm not happy to see my sisters fall for this shit.
I don't know about where you live, but here, even in a good area, there are so many rapes and muggings reported that i won't evev think about walking alone at night until my arms muscles have doubled in diameter. We can't carry guns willy-nilly over here. Sometimes i wish we could, just to show those sad wankers that we're not gonna be victims any more and that if they try it on they'll get a bullet through their empty heads. But i don't want to sink to their levels of violence. That is where the world is going wrong. 90%, or probably more, of the world's violent crimes are down to men. Think about it. who starts wars? men. Who drops atom bombs when the going gets tough? men. Who is more concerned with waving his tackle around the White House than sorting out his fucked up country? Bill bloody Clinton, who, if push comes to shove, could be labelled a man.
anyway, do you see why I'm not prepared to rest until i see a mind blowingly massive improvement on an earthly scale where us gals are concerned? I can tell that you, shampoo, don't miss a trick, which is encouraging to see - but keep using it; don't leave a job half done.
By Keri on Tuesday, August 4, 1998 - 12:03 pm:
I just feel compelled to ask, do you know what you and other women who feel truly victimized in our society fail to see? That the number of female doctors and lawyers and executives are only low because women don't pursue them! Duh...! :-) Why is this so hard for some to see? Why are there not many female scientists? I don't see women bound to chains to the kitchen -- if your brother said it should be so, who said you have to listen? And, as far as I remember, women are very intelligent if they want to be, and the university doors in this country are open to vaginas as well as penises. If women are not pursuing the high careers it's because they don't want to, and no, men will not change and treat women better if women don't wake up first. (In case you are skeptical, check out the US statistics about what teen girls -- future women -- are doing right now. Besides smoking, doing drugs, dropping out of school, getting drunk and pregnant at 14, I would say they are not doing MUCH.)
As Shampoo said, women have gone a long way... and they might go a longer way if they quit the sorrow talk and start acting upon their feminist tongue, which is why I see no value in modern feminism. It's too much talk and too little getting done. Don't you think, Chas? I'll leave you here with this friendly thought. And I swear it's friendly. :)
By Gia on Wednesday, August 5, 1998 - 10:22 pm:
Just FYI: Arranged marriages don't only happen in "less developed cultures"....whatever a LESS developed culure is.
I am offended by that generalization. In my country, arranged marriages have nothing to do with women being subservient to men or objects. It is not necessarily a choice made for them either, but a choice both the men and women make, and their families.
Perhaps you should educate yourself more before you post inaccuracies.
Thanks.
By Shampoo on Thursday, August 6, 1998 - 12:35 am:
By Chas on Thursday, August 6, 1998 - 01:37 pm:
Keri - believe me when i say i am not just all talk. i am going for it with all my being and no male is stopping me.I'm aiming to get 9 GCSEs with A grade, 3 A levels with A grade, a university degree and then go on to a successful career in writing. I work hard. I am clever. I am committed. KNOWLEDGE IS POWER and I never forget that. I'm going straight to the top, and the reason i came on here was to urge other girls too. i'm not just complaining, i'm educating those who don't care and offering an alternative to the shit that STILL EXISTS. it's still out there, agreed? And I'm still here fighting it, OK? I don't claim to be what i know i'm not.
By Oirio on Saturday, August 15, 1998 - 01:20 pm:
Bitch godess,as you like to be called , truely i reakon you have a point but in it you are wrong
oook??I think it would be lovely if everyone
weighed a healthy nine stone but look around!!I dont weigh loads , in fact very little but i dont consider that brilliant. Personally im sick of people saying i look sick or anorexic.What i would'nt give to be 2 stone heavier.Girls dont listen to her , she IS wrong.
By Been there done that on Tuesday, August 18, 1998 - 05:22 pm:
I am a recovering anorexic who used to think that "one grape a day" thing was actually gonna help. it didn't. By the time i realized i HAD to get myself help i weighed 58lbs. I could barely walk, stand, even sit or talk. and it was nobody elses fault but mine. and i knew that. The doctor said there was only a 10% chance i would live. Do you know what it's like to have a doctor tell you that you have a 10% chance of living another 2 months??????????????? You have no idea what that feels like until you experiance it. My family went through hell, and it was all my fault. I now am almost fully recovered, and weigh about 104 lbs, thanks to the help of my friends and family whom i couldn't have done anyting without. So to anyone who is trying to do something about their weight, be happy with yourself the way you are. After 1 year 1/2, i still have to take medication for my bones and muscles i lost while on my so called "diet". Please, don't ever let what happened to me happen to you. and to anyone who is going through it, i wish you the best and hope you will fully recover. and to you, bitch gawdess...........fuck off and get a life
By Been there on Wednesday, August 19, 1998 - 11:30 pm:
What bothers me is when poeple talk like they know all abuot anorexcia [which i can't spell]. they pretend that they know what it feels like and how it makes you see life. i just want to smack all of them!! how they can sit there and be like that just befuddles me! i am/was ['was' more than 'is'] anorexia is not the way it's presented in text books. and it's different for every person. for me it was not my whole life, and more of a co-existence. i only let it control my eating habits, not the rest of my happy go lucky life. other people had anorexia become their leader and they hated it but they couldn't stop. i feel for them, i really do, but not everyone feels the same as them
so for all the posers who try to be understanding, shut the hell up! no one wants to hear it and we all know that you're feeling your way through this by saying what they say to say, and acting like you're understanding when really all you're doing is being a poser and groupie.
so be nice and show you care, but don't rpetend like you know all about it when you don't!!!!!
By Glitterfairy on Saturday, August 22, 1998 - 09:13 am:
By Outta here on Saturday, August 22, 1998 - 12:19 pm:
By Soph on Saturday, August 22, 1998 - 05:26 pm:
So fuck off and stop critising others, get your own life, bitch!
Soph
By OIRIO on Sunday, August 23, 1998 - 04:16 pm:
By Gilmoure on Tuesday, August 25, 1998 - 04:56 pm:
Instead of criticizing people, why not lead them, if you feel you know something that might help. Start a forum that is proactive. If you're not part of the solution...
G
By Artemis on Tuesday, August 25, 1998 - 09:54 pm:
I agree with Glitter fairy, in the matter of boys you must have looked at other girls and tried to be more apealing to boys than they are. Eyeing them with jealousy.
Don't thik I'm a cheerleader. I'm as opinionated as you are.
By Anonymous on Thursday, September 3, 1998 - 03:51 pm:
SPARKLE
By Devil Moon on Monday, September 21, 1998 - 12:17 am:
By SPARKLE on Thursday, September 24, 1998 - 02:51 pm:
Sparkle
By Endora on Thursday, September 24, 1998 - 11:10 pm:
Yeah, some people whinge, but then there are also people on this site who talk about issues, recommend books, talk about their favorite music, etc. Some of us even manage to do all of the above :-0
There's a variety of voices here. If you don't like what's being said, I have a couple of suggestions:
1) Start a topic which you think is worthwhile
2) If the above doesn't appeal, get in touch w/Bitch Gawdess & you 2 can start your own website.
By Anonymous on Friday, September 25, 1998 - 11:36 pm:
i'm really surprised you managed to spell sparkle correctly and not som new form sparkyle..or something like that...is there something wrongwith typing out the whole word..i'm mean two extra keystrokes isn't really that much....oh and hmm...whats more superficial your attitude or what your pushing? why depend on your looks...why let them tell you how to look/at/think/feel..."like duh" i figured laymans terms might make it easier to understand for the shorthanded...its obvious the worlds the way bitch goddess had said...BUT why let it stay like it? grrls going on the way they are is whats making it so horriable for others...
By Star on Saturday, September 26, 1998 - 05:42 am:
Ew....
Ok,so now I have no idea what feminism is?
Excuuuuuse me?! Too bad I've been learning about it since I knew it existed in like first grade....
1. I KNOW what feminism is.
2. Just because you are a feminist does not mean that you sohuldn't care about how you look. Susan B. Anthony didn't go around with her hair unbrushed and unwashed. I'm sure even the founders of feminism ironed and washed thier clothes etc. so that they would make a good first impression on pepole.
3. Being a feminist can be different to everybody. To me it is making sure that NOBODY is discriminated against as best as I can and doing what I can when someone is. True power comes from being an openminded person.
4. Feminism defies discrimination! Do you really expect people to come here and and tell us that someone is better than someone else, especially based solely on looks and not expect us to defend our beliefs? Good god, all you Bitch Gawdess supporters out there, get a GRIP! I'm not saying appearance is not going to ever make a difference on anything, I'm saying it shouldn't? Or have you all closed yourselves off that much that you can't see that?
5. I admit to being jealous of other people. It is a natural human emotion, like love hate and anger. I don't dislike someone just because I'm jealous though...
6. GET A CLUE FAROZA. I know more about feminism and I hope that makes you jealous because it may open your mind enough to make you want to learn more about it. Feminism is NOT about being a he-she fat male bashing lesbian! Feminism is for ALL people. It has nothing to do with looks, it has everything to do with equality and equal rights for everyone. It's based on the idea that "all men [this term being defined as human kind] are created equal." and we are. Nobody is better or worse because of thier outer self and if you don't realize that, I pity YOU because your life is going to be a shallow meaningless journey with nothing learned... People like YOU are the ones that tend to be manic depressive and the most insecure of them all.
7. Feminism: I know what it's about. And what it's about is different for me than other people and that's fine because feminism gives us the right to HAVE OUR OWN THOUGHTS IDEAS AND BELIEFS without being criticized for it. I'm excersizing my right to do it.
So hear me, Bitch Gawdess and her fellow worshippers:
"Screw you!!"
At least I know I'm happy with myself and my beliefs and I'm doing something to make life better for each and every one of us, you included. Someday when you get somehting "you don't deserve," because of one of your "flaws" think about how feminism has helped you get equality based on you. Because you deserve it, not because you look like you might.
Check?
*Star*
By Gilmoure on Saturday, September 26, 1998 - 01:57 pm:
G
By Anonymous on Saturday, September 26, 1998 - 03:26 pm:
H
By Sunshine on Sunday, September 27, 1998 - 01:22 pm:
:)Sunshine:)
By Star on Monday, September 28, 1998 - 12:13 am:
*Star*
By Anonymous on Friday, October 2, 1998 - 12:33 pm:
Oirio
By Endora on Sunday, October 4, 1998 - 04:34 pm:
In other posts, I agree w/some people & disagree w/others. Sometimes I even agree/disagree w/the same person :-) That's what communication & thinking is about, exposing oneself to points of view different from one's own, yet expressing oneself in a manner that repsects other people's perspectives.
By Anonymous on Monday, October 5, 1998 - 04:55 pm:
By Ultraviolet on Saturday, October 10, 1998 - 04:10 am:
To Bitch Gawdess and everyone who thinks being tall, thin, and blonde will get you through life-
EVERYONE gets criticized for how they look at least once in their life. The tall, thin, blonde girl has most likely been put down because of her A-cup boobs. Or her ears that stick out. Or the funny-looking birthmark on her arm. And if she hasn't been criticized based on her appearance, well then someone has probably said something nasty about her shallow personality. Or her inability to keep a secret. Or her whiny voice.
I have never in my life met someone who is flawless. It is human nature to criticize and everyone is a victim.
As for the comment about the 1 grape a day heroin girl getting all the boys (or something like that, I know several average looking girls who have guys waiting in line to go out with them. Now THERE'S a system that works for them.
One last thing on feminism:
I had a chance to see Benazir Bhutto give a speech last week. She was the Prime Minister of Pakistan a few years ago and was the first woman to become one in the Muslim world. Although she recieved a lot of criticism for not staying in the kitchen, she was elected by the popular vote of her people and helped her country tremendously. To me, feminism isn't sitting around on your ass complaining about how men are pigs. That just gives all feminists a bad reputation. Feminism is going out and actively doing something to improve your surroundings for both females and males, to prove you are both capable and unselfish. Telling the world about Susan B. Anthony and Gloria Steinem and their accomplishments isn't going to convince anyone or break any stereotypes. Blaming men for the evils of the world won't do anything either. *getting off soapbox*
By Sparkel on Saturday, October 10, 1998 - 10:28 am:
and I think that star andultraviolet and every1 else rock! GO GIRLS or boys for that matter...
d'you know what pisses me off? Yeah, I know girls have been victimized over the years , i'm all for the right brand of Girl Power but sometimes we are sexist to boys 2. Like, that joke
there were 3 people in a lift, Santa, Intelligent Man, Intelligent Woman, who picks up the money on the floor? Intelligent Man/Woman (depending on who you are) because the other 2 don't exist. If males tell those sort of jokes we come down on them hard - and quite rightly too - but i've heard plentu of girls say that joke too!
-Sparkel
By Anonymous on Sunday, October 11, 1998 - 01:40 pm:
'bitch gawdess', you obviously are a shallow person who's only happy with yourself when other people are happy with you, but are you really truly happy? or do you just defer those 'bad and depressing' thoughts so you can fool yourself into thinking that you really are worth something?
and saying 'you need to look good' (or something) in order to get ahead in life, thats complete bs. melrose place isnt real life, dear. its about a bunch of 'older' kids who think like a bunch of 'mainstream' 13 year olds (no offense any 13 year olds out there, you know what i mean). yeah, real intelligent comment there. its people like you who are the advocates of the typical 'stupid jock/airheaded cheerleader' stereotype of the media, when in fact YOU have even seen its not true, but maybe you should learn that breathing isn't a result of thought. you might get that oxygen back to your brain to prevent what little live matter is up there from dying. I'm the kind of person that is cool with the "geeks", I am one, and also cool with the general population and 'popular' with some of the jocks and cheerleaders because they are not as stupid as the media tells you. i dont know about some cheerleaders though. How did I get in that social position? easy. I didnt give a flying fuck what they thought about me, and I was myself, tried to be outgoing, and chill. I don't have people out to hit me because im a geek. I go places. I have a life. What saddens me are the social-inept geeks and nerds. while very knowledgable and respectable, a lot of them are just stupid. street stupid, life stupid. Their knowledge in certian areas are excellent, towards the high end, nobody can touch them in that area, but when it comes to people, _some_ dont know that they are fucking annoying as hell, 'damn addicts'. the ones i respect and befriend are the ones who dont seem to care about what people think. being yourself and not hiding behind a 'veil of social norms' is one important thing. Just like people label me as a fucking druggie. I am not a druggie, I may have been, but then they also know I have a great deal of skill in computers and music. They don't criticize me for getting good/bad grades. They encourage me. They put drugs aside because when I market myself and advertise, they know that I'm a lot smarter than it seems. no, im not burnt, and no, im not a burnout. feel free to flame.
By Anonymous on Sunday, October 11, 1998 - 01:48 pm:
By Anonymous on Wednesday, October 14, 1998 - 02:43 pm:
By Oirios gonna teach your ass a lesson on Thursday, October 15, 1998 - 02:26 pm:
By Sazzy on Thursday, October 15, 1998 - 06:08 pm:
Anyway, I am also really underweight. I'm NOT anorexic, I DON'T diet, and I DON'T go to the gym. I am just skinny. For some reason people think that being a thin as I am is great. It's not. I am fourteen years old and I weigh 5 stone 2. I am tiny all over, I have small feet so it's hard to get decent shoes, clothes hang off me, I cant wear tight things because they look baggy, I am always being told I am too thin, too bony, I should 'eat up now', I am always being asked if I am anorexic, I have to drink this build-up powder in half a pint of milk every day which stinks and is really sticky, I have practically no breasts and frankly, it SUCKS!
I WOULD GIVE ANYTHING TO PUT ON THREE STONE RIGHT NOW!
Sorry, I knw this has nothing to do with the original disscussion.
Which leads me on to BG... oh my god.....I am lost for words.....
POIGE
By Shampoo on Monday, October 19, 1998 - 02:04 am:
sazzy: thanks for bringing in that viewpoint. i, for one, really like my body. none of you know what it looks like or how much i weigh. i may be overweight and love my body, or i may be really thin and love my body. or i might be in the middle. it doesn't matter, because i still love it just because i do. and i wouldn't trade it in for any other. you should love your body, too. it's good that you want to change it for the better, but make sure that you're doing it for you, and for your health, and not for everyone else who thinks you should eat more.
oh, and while i disagree with what bitch gawdess and her supporters say, and may have made that very well known in the past, i'd just like to say that she's allowed to have her oppinion, and while she should be reprimanded for her rudeness, she should also be commended for her spirit, and the fact that she is not a follower, never has been and never will become one. and what was said earlier is true: we shouldn't yell at her and call her stuff because of her thoughts. i've noticed that here, too, and it's getting really hard to have a strong oppinion and voice it without getting yelled at by the majority.
bitch gawdess and her supporters: you're probably not going to read this because we all scared you off, but i'd like to apoligize for what i said to you before. don't change your oppinion just so you can be socially accepted. and if you want to come back and say more, even if i totally disagree with you, as long as you aren't stubborn, have good points and aren't pointing fingers, i will stand by your right to say whatever the hell you want, and i hope you will do the same for me. dont ever feel you have to change so that people will like you.
everyone else: i understand that sometimes people can really piss you off over what they say, but yelling and calling names is *not* helping. nrrdgrrl should not be a place where everyone blindly follows the same morals and principles just so they can be like the majority of people. let bitch gawdess and her supporters have their oppinions. an oppinion is never wrong. what is wrong is being rude and mean and stubborn, but face it, you're all guilty of that, too.
be different.
By Endora on Tuesday, October 20, 1998 - 11:11 pm:
Not to rehash this, but if you want my opinion on this you're all fakes business, you can read my postings under Endora & my former name, Lee. Bitch gawdess responded to my attempt at dialogue by implying how she feels like a loser because she had something in common w/someone at this site (she agreed w/one of my points). Star attempted to understand her point of view & bg said she'd spit at her if she ever met her irl. No doubt some, if not all, of this was said for shock value & was hyperbole. Fine. Remember the Golden Rule though; do unto others as you would have others do unto you.
I notice how it seems to be the more blunt or abrasive people who complain about how others respond to them. If you want to be blunt or abrasive, go right ahead & exercise your right to free speech. However, don't cry foul when someone gives it right back to you. If you want to tell someone to get a life, that their tastes in entertainment stink or that an entire web site is pathetic, etc. go right ahead. Just don't expect the welcome mat. People will react to your level of rhetoric. The lower it is, the lower the response is likely to be. Interestingly enough, the ones who tend to stoop to the lowest rhetorical levels tend to not identify themselves in any way. As a teacher of mine used to quote, "have the courage of your convictions."
THERE IS ONE EXCEPTION TO WHAT SHOULD BE EXPECTED IN POSTING BEHAVIOR--when someone is talking about something that's really painful or hard to talk about (e.g. eating disorders, suicide) people should tread carefully. It's difficult enough for the person to talk about it in the first place, abrasive/obnoxious comments could easily make things worse.
By Anonymous on Wednesday, October 21, 1998 - 01:15 am:
By Endora on Wednesday, October 21, 1998 - 10:46 pm:
1) People who are taking steps to deal w/a problem, whether it's action or just starting to acknowledge the problem, are strong, not "weak." Changing one's life takes strength.
2) It's not "special attention", it's compassion.
By Anonymous on Thursday, October 22, 1998 - 01:22 am:
1) Nothing should be painful or hard to talk about. It is this society that makes you feel uncomfortable talking about things by bringing you up by its standards. Not acknowledging this concept shows that your beliefs are those that are forced upon you by society, a persons parents, etc.... I am not going to waste my time on sheep, drones, or whatever you want to call them.
2) Compassion? That is such a discriminatory concept. This would imply that what would have happened to them would have been bad. There is no such thing as good or bad. If something good happens to a person, he is happy. If something bad happens to a person, ask yourself if he is a stronger person because of it. These are both positive outcomes and deserve the same respect. Unless, you want to admit that you are a racist, sexist, or anything-else-ist person.
By Endora on Thursday, October 22, 1998 - 11:38 pm:
1) Interesting argument, yet most people live in society. Therefore, whether they want to or not, most people do end up absorbing (whether consiously or not)societal norms. When they start questioning that, etc., that is definitely a strong thing to do, but it can be momentarily painful, etc. Not to say that this can't be transcended, but it can be painful, etc. for a lot of people while they are in the process or when they get "stuck." At the more difficult times in my life, I've appreciated people who treat me w/deceny and humanity more than those who said "just get over it." In fact it was the decent & humane people who have helped me "get over" the bad times.
If you think people who are having a hard time of things are "drones" or "sheep" & you don't want to "waste" your time on them, why bother reading their posts? I'm not saying everyone has to have kind words for everyone who has a problem here, merely that people should exercise some common sense & restraint. For example, someone felt it necessary to tell a person who wrote about cutting herself something along the lines of she should just get a boyfriend and stop whinging.
We're on a bulletin board here, we don't know what people's state of minds are when they post. While I don't think that posting to a bulletin board is the best way to get help (partially because of people like the one who responded to the cutting posting), the people who are doing the posting are making an attempt to reach out. If someone's on the edge, consider what power a nasty posting can have. That's a real live human being on the other end of that message. Act accordingly
2) I don't agree that there's no good or bad. If I go to work, discover the meaning of life on my way there, figure out that world peace thing, get a raise & meet Mr. Right, I'd consider that a good day. Conversely, if I get hit by a truck and my boss comes to the hospital to tell me I'm fired & my health insurance will run out if I don't pay the COBRA, I'm going to consider that a bad day.
I never implied that merely having bad things happen to one made someone stronger. I said:
"People who are taking steps to deal w/a problem, whether it's action or just starting to acknowledge the problem, are strong, not "weak." Changing one's life takes strength."
Note some key words:
taking steps, action, acknowledge, change
By this I mean that a person who, within the realm of possibility, takes responsibility for his/her life. Here's an example to illustrate the difference. Say you have a friend who constantly whinges about his/her job. I'm not talking a little bit of "what a rough day, I can't wait until it's Friday." I'm talking about someone who monopolizes the conversation continually w/this lament. If the friend is out there, looking for a better job, that friend is stronger than if he/she sat around whinging about it, but didn't try looking for better work.
Following this logic, someone who was happy w/work because he/she'd taken action is stronger than the person sitting there whinging about it, but doing nothing. I'd also consider the person who was actively trying to improve an unhappy situation stronger too.
By Anonymous on Friday, October 23, 1998 - 01:24 am:
1) I myself would appreciate it if people would treat me like others in any situation. Just because society says one thing is normal doesn't make it more correct or even incorrect. The point is different people take things different ways. You can say one thing and not say the other. You just have to look at all sides of the story, not just the socially acceptable one.
2) Like I said, you have to look at all sides of the situation, not just the one more commonly seen as acceptable.
By I agree with Bitch Gawdess on Sunday, October 25, 1998 - 10:26 am:
By Atarigrrl on Friday, October 30, 1998 - 05:27 pm:
If you agree, sell out! You can HAVE the guys who want the image you're portraying, it keeps them out of my dating pool. I don't resent guys who go for flakes because they have a right to go for their preferred type.
To Bitch Gawdess:
If you want to be the skinny grape-a-day girl who attracts the guys, go ahead.
Quit trying to educate yourself at school since brains don't matter.
Lock yourself in your makeup room until you look perfect each day.
Pump your chest full of silicone so it's the exact size "your" guys want.
Liposuction your fat until you lose feeling in multiple areas of your body.
Rip your body hair out with hot wax.
Get ulcers in your stomach from worrying about clothes.
Continue to tell other girls that only the skinny survive and succeed, and maybe you'll be responsible when they stop eating and die.
You say anorexic girls are just as empowered as we "ugly girls" are? They're killing themselves--there's empowerment!
You say anorexic girls are making themselves the best they can be? Is killing herself is the best a woman can be?
You said "Wouldn't it great to see a skinny, beautiful, long haired femenist? Wouldn't that be a refreshing change?" Why are feminists obligated to present a spokesperson who resembles your demands? There are *naturally and healthily* skinny, beautiful, long haired feminists, and there are also short-haired feminists with large bodies. Are you implying you would take the skinny feminist more seriously because she's what you expect of a feminist?
You say "to mainstream America gawd is 5'8", weighs 110 pounds, has long straight blonde hair, and a flawless complexion, and no matter how much you all would like to believe otherwize, no one givez a fuck whether or not the gurl can think..." No, that's a fantasy, not gawd. Fantasies are fun but for a lifetime partner I think most people seek more substance than the woman you described.
The skinniness goal is not something I am going to be told I have to live up to, and you're not going to persuade me otherwise. I am totally happy with my body, muscles and fat included. If your grape-a-day heroin girl is totally happy with herself, then she'll probably die happy and quickly.
I know naturally skinny girls and guys face pressure too...everyone tells them to eat and grow some curves. But I'm not going to hate a girl whom God has chosen to make thin, fat, small-or large-chested, intelligent or unintelligent because a guy finds something he likes about her.
How you can continue to accept the glorification of unhealthy skinniness while your friends died trying to achieve it is beyond me. I see puke floating in the dorm floor's toilets and a friend who cannot even push a vacuum across her floor because she's so wasted from anorexia. I cannot glorify skinniness.
By Laurel on Monday, November 2, 1998 - 08:18 pm:
By Rebecca on Tuesday, November 3, 1998 - 01:22 am:
P.S. -
IF YOU WANT TO FIT IN TO TODAY'S SOCIETY-
SPELL CORRECTLY, he he! J
By Celia Gardner on Wednesday, November 4, 1998 - 08:08 am:
I weigh just over 10 stone (140 pounds) I am, I feel, happy with most of my looks
I have red - blonde hair, grey eyes, big feet, hairy legs (I really can't be bothered to shave), cellulite, a big stomach and a personality to die for (even if I do say so myself)
I am a good, intelligent, non bigoted person. I read, write, work, talk, listen and dream.
There are a million ways to be beautiful - everyone (or almost everyone) can be beautiful. Looks are really an incredibly miniscule part of the full potential of someone.
If all you are is looks, then you are a very small person. You may as well be a picture.
Has anyone thought that maybe women are judged on their looks but men are not? What I mean is that this Bitch person says that women need to be "perfect" to get ahead - but we know that men have no need to look sexy to get ahead. My point is that we should not accept this. I have every right to be judged on the beauty of myself, not just the way I look. B.G. says we should not beat them but join them. I disagree, it needs to be challenged or nothing will get any better.
Note to B.G: You may think your style of spelling singles you out as someone quirky and fun, but it actually singles you out as a pain in the arse.
Thankyou for reading.
By Anon 1502 on Wednesday, November 4, 1998 - 03:43 pm: