Okay, I'll go.


NrrdGrrl! Discussion Forum: Just Plain Talk: Okay, I'll go.
By Judi k. on Thursday, November 20, 1997 - 02:55 pm:

Today I feel fat. I'm not fat-- I know this for a fact because I'm 5'5" and I way 125lbs. so by most people's opinions I'm really skinny. Not like kate moss skinny but regurlar people skinny.

so I feel fat today because I ate a whole pint of ice cream last night and I didn't stop even when I felt sick to my stomach. I don't know why I kept eating it even when I didn't really want it anymore. I mean, I wanted the ice cream, but I was full.

Do you eat even after your full if you feel bad about yourself? Why do I do this. I feel so guilty. Blah.


By Mjo on Friday, November 21, 1997 - 01:16 pm:

You're not the only one! I do this all the time. I do it more when I'm pms'ing. I think we've been taught that food is good medecine. It's like a stereotype, you feel bad you eat chocolate.

And your definately not fat!!!


By Moo on Friday, November 21, 1997 - 02:12 pm:

Hello, I'm fatter than you and I don't stress about it. Guess what? Screw em. I like myself. I'm working out cuz I want to and it feels good. And I do want to attempt to fit into my old faded sexy jeans from high school. Maybe I won't ever get there, but I like myself anyway.


By Cyberblonde on Friday, November 21, 1997 - 02:32 pm:

Wow! I'm really psyched about this place...nrrd grrl...that's me! Proud to be different, feminine but fiesty, sweet but strong, brainy is beautiful! Weaker sex??? Hey, boys....assume neither!


By Judi k. on Friday, November 21, 1997 - 11:34 pm:

Hey Moo-- that's a good attitude! I wish I could feel that way, and I try but sometimes I feel like shit anyway. You know? I mean I know I shouldn't let the fact that I don't look like some supermodel bother me, but sometimes it still sucks and hurts that other women get stuff because of how they look and I'll never know what it feels like to be beautiful like that.

I mean, even if i lost weight and got as skinny as a model I still wouldn't look like one, but I keep thinking that if only I could be skinnier I'd feel better about myself. I guess the key is liking yourself- like you said. I think if I liked myself more I'd see myself more the way I really am instead of comparing myself all the time.

I just don't know how to do that though.


By Steph on Saturday, November 22, 1997 - 01:33 pm:

JUDI K.-- Do stuff for yourself. If you want that crazy outfit that you'd die to wear but everyone else might hate...GET IT! WEAR IT! LOVE IT! If you want that new makeup, hairstyle, whatever, do it. As long as it's for YOU!

Don't do things because everyone else wants you to. Do it for YOU. Give yourself a manicure, take a long bubble bath run through tall grass, paint a picture, write a poem. Whatever you want. BE YOURSELF!!!!!

Have fun. I'm telling you, it helps A LOT. It might not change how other people see you right away, but once YOU see that you're beautiful and that you have a great personality and a talent for ________ (whatever you do well) and that you are sweet and friendly and loving, other people will see it too. Your whole aura will change, and people will feel it.


By Slive on Monday, November 24, 1997 - 07:07 pm:

Hey...

anyone see the magazine MODE for sizes 12 and up?? ok, it's not just for 12 and up, but that's what they feature. anyways, it is so great. i'm definitely not a small or even average girl, and let me tell you, that mag boosted my self esteem about 200%!!!! they totally encourage that attitude that Steph was referring to...do what YOU want.
i've always had a self esteem problem - nothing severe, but that teen angst shit never really left. it's funny, you can be doing so much with your life, but if youre not skinny, youre not happy. it's crazy. i'm doing a M.Sc. in Biology, but people will always notice that i've put on weight since high school (what do you expect...we were teenagers back then...)...too bad we can't wear our degrees, interests, hobbies, and accomplishments around our hips...because that's where people look first! ok, guys look at boobs first...anyways.....

back to MODE. since i read a couple of issues, i cut my hair, am getting a bikini, and a skinny velvet skirt with a big slit!! HA!!!

so girls, stop forcing yourselves thin...MAKE YOURSELVES HEALTHY!!! cause healthy is sexy, and sexy is a state of mind!!

Slive


By Steph on Tuesday, November 25, 1997 - 06:30 pm:

I feel so Blah today. Even though I was in such a good mood on the weekend (I dyed my hair and I love it even though mom says "it's too dark!!" I think it's beautiful) I am in a low spot. My life is kinda like a ferris wheel and right now I'm at the bottom (or at least pretty close) I'm usually sitting near the top, but sometimes....Yuck.
I'm having a insecure/jealous day. I can't help it. It's like, completely uncalled for. But I know this one girl who's in my boyfriend's English class, and suddenly today, all day, all I could think of was the fact that he spends some of each (school) day talking to this tall, thin, BEAUTIFUL, apparently flawless girl.

--Judi K.-- This day reminded me of your first post here, while I was having a chocolate-fest at lunch.

I don't even know why it was bothering me, I know he loves me the way I am and I shouldn't worry, but it was just freaking me out.

Well, glad I could get that out.


By ZoOeY on Thursday, November 27, 1997 - 03:48 am:

WOMEN, I feel your pain. The other day, I was having a little tete-a-tete with my so-called former best friend from junior high school and her Asian clique were right behind us. One of the girls, who is PAINFULLY SKINNY, I mean, she scares the hell out of me, trust me, was giggling with one of the most popular water polo guys from my class. I'm gaping at the Korean chick, her thighs are pencils and her cheekbones stick out. I felt degraded but just ignored about it. The worst part is that I'm Asian, too, but I'm not SKINNY like most girls, hey I'm not saying I'm fat, but I am fat compared to THEM, and it really sucks big-time. Come on, it's all in our minds, right? So we have to fight the madness!!!!! Oh, by the way, you can be anything you want to be, skinny, chubby, robust, well-rounded, whatever, as long as you do it for YOURSELF, not because for our crappy totalistarianist poison-tasting society and media hype and GUYS of course and all those bad reasons we have to stay away from! Love what you have! *Lynn*


By Judi k. on Sunday, November 30, 1997 - 04:41 pm:

Hey all-- thanks so much for the supportive messages. I know I need to work on my self esteem and stuff. I also know that I'm not the only one who feels like I'm not good enough because I'm not as skinny as magazines say I should be.

One day maybe there will be enough people (women) who don't care that not caring will be normal and we won't have to feel bad anymore!

love,

Judi K.


By Judi K. on Sunday, November 30, 1997 - 04:50 pm:

and hey Steph-- you know that girl who's in your boyfriends class? Ask her if she thinks she's flawless and I bet you'd be surprised to find out that she doesn't think she's so flawless. People think I must be happy because I'm what most people think is skinny-- but I'm so totally NOT!

Everybody on this list who said that it's how you feel that's important is really really right. Loving yourself for how you look in jeans is not going to make you a happy person. I hope that when I finish school I'll have accomplishments that I wish I could wear around my hips and have people notice about me before they notice what kind of outfit I have on!


By Kathryn Clancy on Thursday, December 4, 1997 - 07:48 pm:

I had a really great conversation with some teammates yesterday about body image. I'm on a college track team, and we basically run in bathing suits at our meets. How can we *not* be body conscious? We all hate our bodies, yet, being athletes, we all have great bodies... I feel that if I just lose one more pound I'll jump that much farther, or I'll run just a little faster. It's embarrassing in those suits, because we're running in front of the guys' team, in front of our contemporaries, friends, family and fans. And no matter who tells us that we look good, we're never good enough...
Women in general are asked to be many things. We are mothers, caretakers, career women, and somehow are expected to look lithe and beautiful at the same time. We went on to talk about how womens' expected bodies are so thin that they actually defy femininity; biologically we are defined by our layer of fat and the width of our hips, which eases the birthing process. Somehow, we are expected to fill both roles of female and male... be pre-pubescent fat-free and have curves... there are too many paradoxes in the way we are "expected" to be.
I've been on a major feminism kick lately because I wrote a paper about Charlotte Perkins Gilman's "The Yellow Wallpaper," and tied it in with Virginia Woolf's "Professions for Women" (the essay about the Angel in the House). These works are both must-reads!!
::gets off soap box:: Nice talking to you guys...

K8 Clancy
<A HREF="http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~kclancy/">http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~kclancy/</A>


By Treecat on Saturday, December 6, 1997 - 08:04 pm:

Well, it's nice to know that SOMEBODY is thinking along the right lines. I'm not really fat, and I'm not really skinny, and sometimes I have a self-esteem problem. Not that I'm asking for sympathy. In response to everybody, pigging out is great, you need to rebel against the popular image of fat-free food and eat whatever you want. It shouldn't matter at all what people think about your body, but you have to admit that a lot of the time it does. And there's not really any point in worrying about it. People will think what they want to think and you have no control over that, but the one thing you *have* control over is what you think. As far as what people think about your body is concerned, the only persons' opinion that matters is yours. For a while I was really concerned and embarrassed about the little bit of fat I have on my tummy. So one day I just decided that I would do something about it, instead of just feeling bad about it. I started doing Yoga for 45 minutes before I went to school. It proved to me that a little fat isn't stopping me from doing anything. I felt a lot better for having done it, it gave a major boost to my confidence in my body. I finally figured out that everyone else was just as unhappy about their tummies, noone was paying any attention to me or criticizing me. I'm starting to flaunt myself a bit more, be a bit prouder about my body, and be a bit healthier. And most of the time, I remember that's what matters. It doesn't matter if you're too fat, too flat, too skinny, too anything. Your body is perfect for YOU, you can dance, run, play, laugh, sing, and don't let anyone convince you otherwise. Your body is beautiful because it houses you! Fat or thin, flat or curvy, whatever, it's you, and only you can change it, even if it doesn't need changing because everyone, EVERYONE, is beautiful in their own way. So smile everybody!


By Lynda on Sunday, December 7, 1997 - 11:49 pm:

If you feel good, who cares what you weigh? I don't need a chart to tell me I am "overweight". I am 5'3", 135 lbs., and considered too big for my petite body type. I say PHOOEY--BLAH!!!!
I work out regularly, and feel GREAT!!!!
Once in a while, (to the first post) it is okay to indulge...everyone does it. Don't kick yourself after the fact. Just try to "be good" tomorrow. You can't change the past...just determine your future. You go, Grrl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


By Gretchen on Sunday, December 7, 1997 - 11:53 pm:

Ever realize how teen mags try to be girl empowered yet it always sounds so false and contrived when the next page has some pathetic waif with clothing that costs more than the combined salary of Honduras? And why do I need hints on how to flirt? If your mode of attracting a mate is something you've read and practiced, don't you think it would look a bit insincere and cliched? Being yourself is sooo much sexier than knowing how to arch your back so that your breasts stick out.


By Treecat on Tuesday, December 9, 1997 - 07:29 pm:

No doubt! The Spice Girls kind of tick me off, 'cuz they're all enthusiastic about being yourself, and girl power and all that, but they all look like models, always look perfect, the stereotype of female perfection. Kind of contradiction, isn't it? You can't be perfect, you can only be yourself, so why worry about it?


By Anonymous on Thursday, December 11, 1997 - 07:18 pm:

Persoally I think the Spice Girls look like sluts. Who would want the kind of guy interested in them to like you if you looked that.


By Jill on Sunday, December 14, 1997 - 05:19 pm:

The Spice Girls are just contradicting themselves... they say they are feminists, but
they advertise everything with their bodies.
i really hope this isn't the future of girl power.


By Drain on Sunday, December 14, 1997 - 06:15 pm:

wow..i really love this place...i've held these feelings in for so long..haven't really had any girlfriends for a while...i'm practically on my computer all the time..i'm also neither skinny or too fat...i'm 5"5" and weigh 135...i try to think positive, but everytime i look at myself in the mirror i can't help but notice the imperfections..and it drives you nuts and brings me back down again ...so i've been trying to ride my bike to work...10 miles both ways...its a good work out...don't do it every day though...oh well..has to make up for all the time i sit on my butt at the computer...i also hate the spicegirls..i read that they actually are all models...they just decided to get together and make a band because they knew they'd be a hit because of the way they looked....oh well...they can't help it if they were born that way...i guess when you see the guys on movies and tv most of them are have nice bodies and are good looking...i guess for some reason it doesn't put as much pressure on most guys...and personally i don't really care for the "perfect" muscly type of guy...well i think thats enough for now...i'll definately be back...thanks for listening...
-drain
http://members.aol.com/draindown
drain@resurrection.com


By Simone on Friday, December 19, 1997 - 05:36 pm:

Whether the Spice Girls are a bunch of sluts is beside the point... the point is that their music really bites. Insipid tunes and worse lyrics: what the heck does "zigazig-ha" mean? It's in there. Enough wasted space.

I run into a lot of problems with my looks. I'm really skinny, but the flipside of that is that I'm "flat-chested." Why does no one realize they go together? We're supposed to want to be scarily thin *and* to have breasts that exert their own gravitational pull.

I hate my hair because it's too curly and frizzy and it makes me look like a refugee from the seventies. So I cut it off, leaving maybe a half an inch left. I loved it. So my mother calls me an ugly dyke and my father asks me why I want to look like a boy. What's up with that? I should be able to be flat-chested and short-haired if I damn well please. So there.

So now I'm done harping on my poor self-image.
-Simone


By Punkgrrl on Sunday, December 21, 1997 - 08:36 pm:

You know, your parents need to relax... if you like your hair that is all that should matter!!! I know how you feel, my parents might say something like that...
And you are right about the Spice Girls... they suck, I don't want to waste my time on how bad they are.


By ZoOeY on Wednesday, December 24, 1997 - 12:47 pm:

Don't say "So now I'm done harping on my poor self-image!" You have the *bleep* right to be WHO YOU ARE AND WHAT'S INSIDE YOU AND HOW DO YOU WANT TO REPRESENT YOURSELF!!

I'm suffering the same dilemma-- the mention of shaving my hair to challenge the refined beauty art of my heritage sends my mother to the funny farm. Yes, I know I'm Americanized (I'm first generation Asian if anyone asks) but I'm not denying my ancestry! I just do not want to grow my hair long and straight so people can shower me with flowery compliments "you look freakin' pretty when you smile!" and that I don't have to deal with backlashing mouth and verbal abuse from my peers. I refuse to be a victim of the typical Asian girl because that's NOT who the hell I am!
(did I make sense? most of the time I don't)


By Simone on Thursday, December 25, 1997 - 11:00 pm:

Punkgrrl, ZoOey, thanks for the boost. And *who* needs flowery compliments anyhow? At the expense of witty (if not meaningful) conversation? I don't think so.
"If you want to be me, be me; if you want to be you, be you..." Has anyone seen _Harold and Maude?_ I know that should go in the movie section but that one has a really amazing example of a woman who really is herself... Fine movie.
-Simone


By Esk on Friday, December 26, 1997 - 04:43 am:

ouch. zooey, comments like "victim of the typical
asian girl" are really painful to me. i'm not sure
what point you're trying to get across - are you
supporting the stereotype that "typical asian girls"
are meek, obedient, conservative? it's fine to embrace
your individuality, but do you realize that in your
disdainful comments, you are setting yourself up
as the good, liberal, american rebel at the expense
of discounting the equally legitimate lifestyles/experiences
of "typical asian girls"? this is such a trend i see
in asian-american and mixed-race young women, and it
distresses me.
- eskarina8@hotmail.com (filipino/white)


By ZoOeY on Friday, December 26, 1997 - 03:05 pm:

This is an extremely high sensitive controversy, Esk, I realize it, but I try to be careful what kind of point I am making. You accuse me of following the trend of "the equally legitimate lifestyles/experiences of "typical asain girls" and I take the compliment rather personally, but I think I need to clarify what I am trying to express to the world. I never EXACTLY stated that the "typical asian girls" were "meek, obedient, conservative" but I do have to admit that the Asian species are extremely homogenous and conversative. When I say Asian, I usually am refering to my CHINESE culture and as well as Korean and Japanese cultures because right now, I'm dealing with that sort of community. I know other girls who are southeast Asian, but they're usually mixed and are just similar like me. Anyway, I'm just saying what really makes me stand out the crowd from millions of other chinese girls is that i was born with blue eyes instead of brown eyes due to genetic mutation and that my parents are not normal (you could say they're Americanized) and that because of my parents' ways of raising me, I am unusual compared to other Asian girls. I'm an average math student but I read Anne Sexton and Sylvia Plath. I don't wear department clothes with flashy brands like Tommy Hilfiger or Nautica, highlight my hair with copper streaks, I don't hang out with strictly Asian cliques, I don't even speak THE FREAKIN' LANGUAGE. What I meant by the last thing is that I don't retreat to the slang most of my Asian peers use. I really try to refrain from the politics of "asian pride" subject. I'm sorry if I gave you a headache and that maybe it was a fatal mistake to declare my individuality. Everybody IS different and not all Asian girls are meek, obedient, and conservative, but the Asian cultures happen to be comprised of conservative values and refined traditions compared to Western civilization. It's just that I don't fit in the Asian crowd, I don't have even two Asian friends to bond with. DO YOU KNOW WHY? I was born profoundly deaf and the training & education I received surpressed me from being influenced by other Asian peers because I was damn too preoccupied trying to develop my language and oral skills. I have been isolated many times from the influence of Asian peers that I have been forced to develop my own individuality at my own expense. Constantly, I am criticized for being "too white" just because I don't speak the same "dialect" other Asians do (at least, at my high school), that I don't wear the same trends as they do, that I don't play violin in the symphony orchestra, that I am not in honors calculus, that I don't socialize with "my own kind", all the bs I could rant on and on.

Maybe the statement "victim of the typical Asian girl" was rather harsh and biased, I admit it. But when I shout out my individualistic pride, I have a good story to back up. And from my experiences, I believe many Asian-Americans, especially girls, are being victimized by stereotypes and that they actually do attempt to succumb to the stereotypes, which saddens me greatly but *I* want to do something about it. I hope I cleared up some gray areas for you. E-mail me at PeppersX@aol.com if your innermost desires applies to that. Thanks for the talk!

*Lynn*


By Kathryn on Sunday, December 28, 1997 - 05:39 pm:

chocolate ice cream is the death of me. and i eat it ALL ALL ALL because it tastes good. I don't give a crap about what models look like because they are all messed up inside. you don't get that thin from just dieting and starving yourself...a lot of them take herion too. Sometimes it amazes me that they are not dead. I feel good about my body most of the time. I am 5'5" and about 128 lbs. I go to an all girls school and its so great. I don't have to worry about looking good at all. somedays i don't even brush my hair. All girls schools rock because we can concentrate on what is REALLY important. Because if your biggest worries are your size, then you are a lucky lucky person. Think about people who have to worry about food. or war, or crime, or sickness! I think about that when i feel upset about how i look. If someone doesn't want me because of your size or looks then they aren't worth my time.

feel free to harass me: kat2@hotmail.com


By Deenie199 on Saturday, January 3, 1998 - 04:11 pm:

yea!! "harold and maude" is a wonderful movie! i'm so glad to know that someone else feels its value; and, whoever hasn't seen it needs to. wow! i am so proud of you grrls! i am so glad to have read this message board...you grrls know what's up!!


By Lauren phillips on Monday, January 5, 1998 - 01:38 am:

all right lynda!!! you got the idea: if I like myself and i think i look good, then i do!! I spent so much time in the past being jealous of other girls--girls i knew, models, whoever--but now, when i look in the mirror, i wonder, how can anyone not absolutely love me?? my flaws are what make me unique, and who wants someone who's just like everyone else, anyway?? hey, you cant please everyone, anyway, so why not be true to yourself? You'll like yourself so much better--I do!!
Love you all,
la


By Lauren on Monday, January 5, 1998 - 01:41 am:

ummmm....could it be that the spice girls look like sluts because they are??
-la


By Meghann Willard on Monday, January 5, 1998 - 01:34 pm:

Here are some tips on how to get through life without obsessing about body image, self-esteem, weight, societies expectations, etc.

-Throw away your Television. T.V. is programmed with shows that represent the popular political, commercial and social trends of the time. It gives us viciously perfect role models that are impossible to live up to.

-Throw away your scale. If weight truly doesn't matter to everyone here, why are you announcing how much you weigh? If the way that you look and feel is more important to you than numbers, just don't weigh yourself. It isn't important.

-Find your own style. With clothes that fit right, and not 2 sizes too small which you are going to diet yourself down to. Wear clothes that are comfortable, that reflect what matters to you, not what every store in the mall is carrying this particular month.

-Get a good attitude. Part of liking yourself is liking other people. Constantly harping about that slut from English class, or the girl that tried to steal your boyfriend is going to flood your life with negative emotions. If you really reflect on it, you will find that you were happier when you were a child, which was the time when most people didn't worry about the bad things in life. By all means, don't form a little fantasy world where everthing is perfect, just try to see the good in everyone.

The most important part of liking yourself is to accept yourself. I used to worry about guys and my hair and every petty little detail in the average 16 year old life, then I hit the bottom and realized that what I needed was not better grades or a smaller butt, I needed to be me. So I started to write stories and make candles. I threw away my razors, makeup, and bra (I'm not a hardcore feminist, just more comfortable natural). I have amazing friends that are comfortable with themselves, and majorly supportive of me, just as I am of them. My marks went up and I am way happier with myself now. Sure, every once and awhile I get the urge to eat a ton of ice cream, and now I indulge. No more worrying about how I look or appear to everyone else, only to myself. I think that I am the happiest person that I have ever been.

Meghann Willard


By Sparkle66 on Tuesday, January 6, 1998 - 03:37 pm:

I think it's great that so many people are giving loving themselves the attention it deserves. Your weight and size are only numbers. I wish I could feel that way about my own.


By Shimmy on Thursday, January 8, 1998 - 09:48 pm:

this site is great, i know i'm just typing in a story just like the 30 other girls on here (sorry, i'm boring), but that's good, we go through the same things together. actually, i'm kind of out of that now, i had a year of this depression over my body and my unpopularity. luckily, i got kept from going too far by having music, my lifesaver. It kept me ok, i have everything to owe to music.


By Nikki on Friday, January 9, 1998 - 09:32 pm:

Everybody's talking about those skinny girls in the magazines. Well, I model, and trust me, those girls worry about their weight and looks as much as you do. I'm 5'8, and 105 lbs., and I still feel fat sometimes. Like all the time. And I've realized that it doesn't really matter now skinny or pretty a person is, they're still gonna have problems, that's the way it goes.


By Nikki on Saturday, January 10, 1998 - 02:26 pm:

It's Nikki again (from the last message). If anybody wants to talk to me or insult me or whatever, they can E-Mail me at Canary1023@aol.com...To all the females out there, just be yourself and forget about the "standards" of society, cause they're just a crock. People like people who like themselves the way they are, not cause they're thin and pretty!!!


By ZoOeY on Monday, January 12, 1998 - 07:19 pm:

Nikki, it's extraordinary touching to hear that kind of wisdom from you about people being plagued with petty problems regardless what size they wear. But I'm curious about your modeling career. Do you think models are partially responsible for contributing to the media and their electrifying brainwashing bullsh*t? (I apologize for vulgar language, but nothing else seems to be fit what I'm thinking about) I mean, if we, as society, view anorexic-looking drugged six feet tall (just exaggerating.. a little bit) willowy-waisted models with Nordic-like beauties (African beauty is underrecognized, Asian even less) as the "glamour", then we surely must think we have to try to look glamour like the models in order to be successful. I mean, WHAT is the purpose of modeling? I'm aware the money must be filthly good in modeling business, but what about the bigger picture?


By Shampoo on Tuesday, January 13, 1998 - 09:02 pm:

Zooey, you said it SO right. That's all I have to say.


By Joy on Tuesday, January 13, 1998 - 11:12 pm:

Please allow me to give all of y'all a tool to use when you start feeling down on yourself. Whenever you are around a bunch of other people, look at their eyes (hopefully, without giving the impression of stalking them!) I'm talking here about just observing...not staring. Anyway, start looking at people's eyes and you'll start noticing that everyone appears to open one of their eyes a bit more than the other. Most people don't know this about themselves, much less notice it in others. Even the "perfect" models have this particular imperfection. This is kind of like psyching yourself up to speaking in front of a bunch of people by imaging all of them naked. Just a tool. Hope it helps! Joy


By ZoOeY on Friday, January 23, 1998 - 08:51 pm:

I am extremely fatigued about the traditions and rituals of fussing over my physical appearance for the sake of individualistic representation. Recently, I've stopped brushing my hair so I can grow dreadlocks and it sure saves me a hell of time so I can maintain my sanity (or not) and do other more productive activities to change the world. It's a political statement. Next, I think I might clean out my wardrobe and throw out anything I don't like but keep everything I like to wear in. Those platform shoes can burn for all I care. I might even dump my make-up set into the garbage bin and donate my nail polish collection to my friends. Do I really want to do this, do this to transform into an androgynous nonconformist and powerful feminist with outrageous statements on the top of my head? Changes are always difficult, especially if they challenge traditional gender roles and they don't exactly appease society. TO THE HELL WITH THEM. We need to grow.


By Nikki on Sunday, January 25, 1998 - 02:19 am:

Are models partially responsible for the bs standards people feel they have to live up too? I think they are in a way, but it goes back to the consumers and people behind the magazines and advertisements. It's not like models walk into an agency and say "I want to lose ten pounds for the hell of it." Agencies want thin girls because that's what's selling now. As for me, I'm feeling a lot of pressure to stay thin right now, since I'm trying to get a good agency. As a matter of fact, a week from today I'm going to Atlanta for a modeling convention. Consider yourself lucky if you have ample time to lose weight or shapeup, for you, and not for an agency. ZoOey...you asked, "what is the bigger picture?" you probably already know. All in all, I like being thin and noticed for my looks, even though I have to put up with people calling me anerexic. I don't, however, like being what I look like. It doesn't really matter that much to me. The money is good, and I want to do more traveling. So don't get down on the models, we just do what we're told to do.


By Quinn Duestches on Sunday, January 25, 1998 - 12:20 pm:

Oh, good. I'm not the only person who past up size 6 jeans. All my friends are like "Let's go Haggen-Dazz-ing!!" They are all so skinny, I want to stuff McDonalds and Burger King down their throats! They get sick all the time, and say that it's just a reaccuring flu. I wish they would realize what they are doing to themselves. they won't listen to me becuase they think that I'm jealous, or too stupid anyway.

I', happy for you, Nikki. Even some people see modles as "the other side" at least we can know what you guys think of all this. Steroetypes are everywhere. We don't need another one. All people, not just women, we can all be together if everyone would realize that we all came from the same sludge of slime, and that our differences are irrelevant.


By ZoOeY on Sunday, January 25, 1998 - 10:05 pm:

Of course, the insanity of media and chains of advertisement companies are responsible for preaching fat oppression and all that superfluous crap I don't even want to begin. I don't mean to attack all the models and hold them fully reprehensible for today's Western beauty standards. But it seems to me.. let me repeat what you declared.. you like being thin and being noticed because it makes you feel good.., am I not correct? I'm glad that you value your looks as your primitive ticket to being loved and adored I just hope you don't take it too granted because there comes a day when your looks will not exactly be preserved forever and people will no longer appreciate for who you are. No, let me try to paraphase that again. Do you ever realize that people MIGHT view you as a lovely object, nothing more, less than a human.. and they are so intrigued by your looks that they fail to get past that and fail to appreciate your personality? I congratulate you for sharing your point of view about modeling and your thoughts on it with us.. I have to admit you are the first I have corresponded with who is involved in the modeling industry. Have fun with your travelling experiences and cashing all those checks. But to me, I know I can be loved and noticed besides my looks.. because I want to challenge the gender traditions and educate society that we women can be valued and be successful for just more than our appearances. Good luck, Nikki.


By Nikki on Wednesday, January 28, 1998 - 09:03 pm:

I don't want to be what I look like. That's why I'm so "ify" about this whole industry. I don't think that people like me for my looks though, but....I do have more friends now than when I was in elementary school, as a chubby dork. But I think it's more about how I feel about myself, i'm more self-confident and it comes through my personality. Maybe it is because I look better now. I'm completely modest though, I wear very little makeup and just let my hair down. Nobody even knows that I model, cause I don't want people to know. I don't want them to treat me differently. What I said about feeling good about being thin, I feel good about myself, not about what other people think about my looks, honestly, I couldn't care less.


By Kat on Wednesday, January 28, 1998 - 09:08 pm:

i heard a great quote today. this guy was on tv and he said, "If every woman in america woke up tomorrow and was satisfied with the way she looked, the entire economy would colapse." damn.


By Shampoo on Thursday, January 29, 1998 - 12:51 am:

Unfortunately, in the (crappy) world we live in today, a woman is measured by her looks. That's the way it is. It's the first thing people see, and if don't measure up to the ideal set by todays supermodels, (as most of us don't), then people *will* look down on you. It's sucks, doesn't it? I mean, I'm talking from experience, just absorbing things that happen around me, stuff I see on TV, how my friends act, even. Me too. I can't leave the house without make-up. Isn't that terrible? I'd rather be 15 minutes late for school then have messy hair, or a zit. It really bugs me, cuz I never used to be like this. I really admire you, Zooey, for being able to do that. I could never. Yet, with or without make-up, I still hate my looks, and I always will, just like all my friends do. That's what it's like being a teenage girl. In movies, the beautiful one is the heroine, all sweet and charming, always gets the guy. The ugly one is the villain. Even in Disney movies. The guys I know oggle girls with big boobs, are constantly talking about the beautiful girls they see. And the rest of us *normal* ones (ie, not computer generized) are left feeling less then adequete, finding faults with themselves that no one can see, but that you zero in on when you look in the mirror. It doesn't matter if you're the best in school, are sweet, reliable, and well liked. Of course, that's what really matters, whats inside, but not everyone thinks that way. Sorry, I don't mean to be so depressing. I'll stop now, thanks for listening!!


By Amelia Wilson (Admin) on Thursday, January 29, 1998 - 01:24 am:

Shampoo, girlfren' you're not being depressing-- you're being real. You basically just summed up the feelings that drove me to write the NrrdGrrl! Manifesto (which was the foundation of this site).

The sad fact of the matter is that you can't escape the culture you're raised in-- not completely. You can rationalize, you can reject, you can fight to change things, or you can give in-- but there's just no real escape from the messages of socialization. You're bombarded with them from the moment you're born until the day you die. And doing anything that doesn't "go with the program" is stressful-- by definition. I think that's why most women go through so many struggles. We have these conflicting desires-- part of you wants to break free and to liberate yourself from what seem like silly social constraints of looks and behavior. But part of you just wants to conform already to end the stress of fighting. So you fuss with your hair and you worry if your boobs are too small and you get mad at yourself for caring.

But I think that being aware of where these feelings are coming from is a big help in dealing with them. It doesn't make them go away necessarily, but it does seem to make them less painfully *important*. I've found that now that I've reached the creaky old age of 30, I've been able to channel that time and energy I used to spend fretting over not living up to some preposterous standard into something more productive-- and into things that make me feel good about myself. And in the end, that's the only thing that matters.


By ZoOeY on Sunday, February 8, 1998 - 01:28 pm:

Yikes. The last thing I want us to be falling into the pessimistic chasm mirrored by society. Ok, maybe looks is something that is beyond our mortal powers to grasp and twist but there are so many areas we could focus on other than appearances such as redefining our roles in government and politics and mathametics and science (et cetera!). Amelia, I think that is wonderful you are channeling your time and enegry to make yourself feel good by committing yourself to your passions instead of pondering and pouting over your own imaginary misery. We all should try to do the same thing (me--currently in the process) and flash our provocative political statements to the the world!


By Shampoo on Sunday, February 8, 1998 - 11:11 pm:

I agree!! YAY, AMELIA!!! Isn't she great? One way cool adult! She doesn't lecture, or anything! And she's not afraid to speak her mind, or stand up for what she believes in! The same goes for the rest of you girls, you're all awesome! You too, Zooey, you don't let anyone stand in your way. Congrats, that's not easy to accomplish. Luv ya all! ^_^

-Shampoo


By Lya on Sunday, February 22, 1998 - 09:33 pm:

Okay--let's talk addiction.

Ben and Jerry's Cherry Garcia.

And that's all I got to say about that!!!

(HUGE GRIN)

~Lya


By Ickygrrlgerms on Saturday, March 7, 1998 - 08:08 am:

.*. W h y i s h a v e d m y h e a d .*.


The voices were now becoming irksome. All these people constantly asking me,
"Why did you shave your head?", exasperated me. Does the fact that I did shaved
my head really sorrow them that much, that they must relentlessly ask why I had
done so?...I guess so. As to please these people, I plan to explain why I have
shaved my head.

Nine years ago, my doting older brother began to skate(board) had your typical
"skater look", which intrigued me...I wanted to dress like that, be that, and more.
So I got myself a Maple deck, a pair of tan Plenties and a red Pain shirt with some
guy stretching underwear, and the ugliest yellow Plan B hat. I lived in that for what
seemed forever..oh i forgot my lumber jacket which was just some thin ass'd plaid
jacket that i constantly wore also insdie and out, summer winter and fall..it didn't
matter. Soon my brother got tired of his long hair and decided to shave it, and of
course so did i, but not so much because he did it this time, but because I was now
into it all for ME, and i LOVED it.

The first time I shaved my head, I took my brothers clipper's to my friend's who I
was staying with that night. Downstairs behind her bar, so that her parent's
wouldn't freak, we shaved my head not complelty bald but a minor undercut. I
went to school the following Monday and people's mouths were dropping, they
couldn't believe it. A girl with a shaved head? They thought i was some kinda
lunatic..and weren't afraid to tell. But that only made me want to do it even more,
so the next time i shaved it higher, til I kinda looked like johnny from Catwalk. I
used to even braid whatever hair i had on top of my head. My parent's were really
iffy bout my new style, and thought that i needed medical help. I don't have some
gene that's making me do this...i WANT to do this.

After have been shaving my head for three years, I decided to let it grow out for
two years, but always constantly cutting it short and shaggy so as to not go back to
my "oh so shocking glam fuck" look. But i didn't feel like me with hair, i felt like
Chewie but with a better bikini line. So the summer before Peace A Cord, I shaved
my head again. This time I shaved it almost complelty bald, except for my bangs
and a few longer peices on the sides. If you've seen Liz (Spike's friend) on
Degrassi high then you know what I am talking about, and i felt as though i were in
heaven.

It felt so good to be back to my baldness, my shaggy devil sprouts when my hair
started growing back made me cry with glee. This is me..and I'm happy.

So i guess you could say I shaved my head for ME, because I LOVE it, and
wouldn't be able to go with hair. It has nothing to do with trends, my brother,
religion, hate, being a "lesbian butch", or some kinky fascination with Sinead
O'Connor...It has to do with me and my preferences..like you and yours. Just
because I'm a girl does not mean i nesscairly need long flowing hair that shines like
dog knows what..im just a femine as those with those looks.

Everyone here is your perfect wench or rouge..they don't think they've any flaws..or discolouration...they're "a polaroid of perfection"..which makes them better..or so they say giving them the right to *attack* those slightly different.

PiSHPoSH..nothing give anyone the right to decide who is better than who based on the apperence...especially those stupid magazines..fashion's fashion..yea so..does that nesscarily mean that i want to be looking at a straw wearing some oh so trajically hip article of clothing? No..i wouldn't think on saying so...so i've given compleltly up on the hopes of "those" magazines possiably cleaning up "their" image.

for some reason i think if everyone was a tom*boy* in any aspect things probably wouldn't be a fOi!ked as they are..or maybe if some people grew up and relized they've no superiority over no one just because they can wear some sprayed on tight fitting jeans..it doesn't look "sexy...appealing.." or any of that to me..it just looks uncomfortable and another way to fall in to the whole mess of trying to please someone else..(but i suppose if by some chance someones wearing "hisdicktometight" pants for themselves then good for 'um)


By ZoOeY on Sunday, March 8, 1998 - 03:27 pm:

Ickygrrlgerms (sensational name!)
You should try to write an article about your shaved head and your revolution. Rarely I meet a girl who is more than willing to shave her head to celebrate her femininity-- actually I have to confess that I have never really met such a self-asserted girl who was not intimidated a bit to flaunt off her individuality. It's funny, because I have been contemplating doing the same act to rebel from my long hair and prove to the entire hypocritical world that I am not a bit afraid to be what I want. I will not deny that I have been hesitating about going ahead to get over this ritual because it is going to be one of the outrageous and provocate statements I will declare. My mother cringes at the idea of shaving my head because she claims it will make my face look "disproportionate" and expose my neck more than it should. I don't care what she says because ultimately this is MY head we are talking about, so therefore I should make my own decision about whether I want to sacrifice my locks or not. If this is what I want to do, then let it be. Thank you for being an inspiration to me, Ickygrrlgerms.


By Ickygrrlgerms on Tuesday, March 10, 1998 - 12:53 am:

ZoOeY

to shave my head completly bald took my 20minutes of pro and conning the whole situation. I could really see myself without any hair..but they saw when you do something on a impulse or with a burst of passion the outcome is something of glory highness. so without second thought i took the bathroom mirror from our upstairs washroom hung it in our laundry room and TOLD my boyfriend to start shaving away the dreds of discontent. i think he was more worried about it than i was actually ("Are you sure your dads not going to freak and beat with a bat with nails in it?" something which my father had done with an ex for unmentionable unrelated reasons) it was quite silly how his hands shook.

once i had it done i for some reason well not some reason i know the reason why i reluctanly went up stairs..My Parents..I've done a lot of things to my hair since grade 7 so I kinda thought they wouldn't think this as a big deal..it wasn't to bad for my mother she was on the phone so i suppose i lucked out in a way (parent's rarely get over angered when theres someone else present or they're on the phone) but my father disliked it. he told me i looked like a boy...Gee, like i didn't know that but thats what made me love it even more that and the cool feeling you get when you lye on your pillow and its cold.*i love that feeling* but the biggest test was my boyfriend's parents more so than mine. His mother was far too practical and your basic "Your a girl you SHOULD and HAVE TO wear DRESSes and HAVE LONG hair" ick! its bad enough she disliked my lip ring...while standing face to face with her she said it looked nice she rubbed my head looked away at my boyfriend and stuck her finger down her throat pretending to gag (ive such an honest bloak). That didn't bother me much though..thats her and i was trying to impress her, his father though being "All he can be" miltary man GiJoe and more was completly different he took one look at my shag'd cut and walked the other way..I had never felt so disowned..kinda like a dog with fleas and a bad smell generating from itself. I don't why i need to have his father approve of it..i didn't live with him..i dunno

anyhow thats all just a senseless ramble i wont continue on with..or not in so much detail at least.

my neck stands out quite a lot actually..being as the fact ive no colour in my skin all (by choice and stubborness) and i've a rather large birth mark from the top of my neck to the bottom *picture 5 ice cubes melting in a diagonal line on someones neck* i've comments about my ostrich neck all the time...my face being still as round and chubby as it was when i was a heathen toddler doesn't look anymore out of proportion then it did then..or at least no one has told me.

hair grows back much like everything else..or thats what i tell my parents when i do something new to my hair or when i reshave it and they say "i thought you were letting it grow back this time?" or when i poke a new hole in myself..i think it would be understandble for our parents to bitch about it if we were to shave our heads and get some discriminating/vulgar tattoo across the baldness of our scalps...that i would see fair..but not because it makes your neck stand out or your face of proportion.

don't guys faces look out of proportion? and their necks look funny?hmm...maybe they're right and i should grow my hair back...or maybe ive let the dye seep to far in to my scalp to have thought they were right...

i say GOPHER it shave your head...

Reasons WHY to Shave you Head:

1) it feels neat running your hand across the top *like corduroy*
2) the coolness in the summer time
3) the nifty pillow experience
4) No more rushing to get your hair done
5) No more styling gels (until you get to the devil sprout stage then you've the option of spiking/liberty spikes/or flatening it down)
6) a lot easier to wash no hair
7) saves on shampoo and towel use
8) no cleaning out the hair brush
9) no more cleaning out hair from the drains
10)satisfaction of uniqueness
11)when its windy theres little to no effect
12)when it rains it feels cool and no drying is needed


Reason NOT to shave your head:

1)Winter sucks cause the coldness can cause hypothermia so remember a hat or a hooded sweater
2)winter
3)winter
4)winter
5)winter
6)bad growth back (i.e. hair that sticks perpindicular to the ceiling or parallel to the walls)
7)winter
8)winter
9)winter
10)winter
11)winter
12)winter

see theres better things FOR shaving your head then against...and winter's over pretty much. So go for it..who cares what whoever sys..its not their head like you said..and it grows back..its NOT the end of the world..just the end of a really old stupid stereotype.

ickygrrlgerms is generated from the childhood term from the boys "Eww!Cooties...icky girl germs...gross!" except seeing as grrl to me has a more stronger meaning that "girl" which most people see as being weak and pretty and petite and just Barbie Perfection didn't cut it for me. So Grrl to me being "You kick me down i bite you back" kind of thing seemed to fit me a whole lot better.

--ickygrrlgerms--
(rebel looking for a cause)


By Trista Campbell on Tuesday, March 17, 1998 - 01:03 pm:

i live in germany now. there is no ben and jerry's here.

would somebody please send me a pint of carrot cake?

please...


By Wendy on Monday, March 30, 1998 - 08:17 pm:

Wooohooo..what do u know? Big or small, we all seem to feel the same inside. And I don't know bout u, but what a relief it is for me. So I will pass along a little somethin that I try to
to tell myself. If "they" don't like u how u are and for who u are, then u don't want them
anyway. First and foremost, LOVE URSELF!! even when it's so hard ur in bed for days...
be good to u :) L&F to all

Wendy


By Keely on Monday, March 30, 1998 - 09:46 pm:

I once wrote a list of the top ten things that i wanted most in life and the top ten things that i fear the most - death was not on that list - i do not fear death. anyway my one greatest fear is wanting to die. i can't picture why someone would want to die. life is such a privledge despite all the shit it throws at you.


By Que_ on Tuesday, March 31, 1998 - 07:58 pm:

Well, people could want to die because of a chemical imbalnce, or because the circumstances of their lifes could be just that bad. It's not all cut and dry, there is so much inbetween ground. I guess it all comes right down to optimism. Keely, for instance, is optimistic. People who want to die (for non-biological or health-caused reasons, but just because) maybe are pessimistic? I don't know, I've thought about death before. Things got really bad for me for a while there and I thought it would be so much easier to just end it all. I"m still tottering on the idea...but trying not to think about it. I wonder if many teens (especially, not to say that adults don't go through this) go through this same thing as me? I wonder if it's a phase? I wonder sometimes if I'm depressed, but I'm so happy most of the time, i don't htink I am. But that's when I'm at school or in public; when I'm home or alone, it seems like the facade falls off and I'm exhausted and tired of it all.

I'm going to try and enjoy the simple htings for now....like the spaghetti dinner waiting for me at the table!

Que


By Daupin on Thursday, April 9, 1998 - 05:59 am:

HELLO
my name is dauphin,I am french.Is anybody who speak french because I am not very good at english.
merci de répondre


By Keely on Thursday, April 9, 1998 - 03:57 pm:

dauphin-
je parle un petit francais.

i hope that made sense.
>:-}
Keely


By DEMETER on Wednesday, April 15, 1998 - 01:31 am:

WOW!!! so glad to say i am a member of this site!! What an empowering place!!!! i posted a couple messages on another discussion yesterday!!! And now i'm hooked!! what a great place to be hooked on !!!
I struggled and still fight body image shit!!! but i am way better at it !!
I use to be a "TOMBOY" ( those were the good old days !!)
I went through a 2 year period where i extremely bought into the sad stereotype. (many, many cirsumstances can lead you there, maybe i will share some sometime)
I know i was not happy there. Even denied it to myself.......
I suffered eating disorders
I have always had large breast!!!(painful memories of being teased and the LAME jokes!!!)
We are taught to "never be satisfied " this is how we are sometimes unconciously kept in our place...... If we are too busy obsessing about all of these things , how can we possibly gain self confidence)
But happy to see many off us here are gaining our self confidence!!!
I am so called "big"??????? now (whatever that is ).
i don't wear make-up , i don't shave, i am at present picking at a pimple on my face and tit!! (from time to time )LOL
I don't comb my hair everyday
I am an artist , my art centres around body image and stereo - types!!!
I am empowering myself!!!!!
I am so glad i was told about this site!!!! I am telling my friends about it !!!!!

NIKKI :RE: "The modeling industry"
You said it clearly (way back on this list) when you said "THE MONEY IS GOOD"&" WE JUST DO WHAT WE ARE TOLD TO DO" this is exactly how these industries want us to behave"Do what we are told , don't question, just be good little beauties and don't ask questions. ANd did you know that these types of jobs are the only jobs where women get paid more than men? Ironic don't you think? What a way to lure and con women into thinking it is good . Just flash a disguise of glitz and glamour in our faces and hand over the cash!! Well how much money do you think these industries are making on exploiting and manipulating our bodies and brains, in side and outside of the industry!!
NIkki this is not an attack on you , i see clearly your struggles and you have my understanding, cause this is another thing these industries do , "they set it up so women compete and hate each other !!!! Will i love you all!!!!! SMILES!!!!!


By Lara the born-again Chicana on Friday, April 24, 1998 - 04:43 pm:

Well, I am glad that I stumbled upon this site. I can relate to you all very much. I am 23 years old and have struggled with self-mutilation, anorexia, and severe depression. I am also a victim of sexual abuse and grew up in a fundamentalist Christian home. I am bi-sexual, having had sexual relations with women in the past, and have been happily married to a man for three years. I wear my hair shaved (half-inch) and I do not wear make up. I say, who cares what people think? As long as you are happy and are not hurting other people, go for it!


By Magwlootsa on Saturday, May 9, 1998 - 03:35 pm:

Hello

I have a got a load of things to say, So I am just gonna say them. you don't have to read this but I would like it if you did.

Right now I am just gonna have a moan about all the things i feel like moaning about. I am also going to say what I think. This will make a bit of a change as I am not usually the most outspoken person in the world.

Right lets get on with it.
First of all I would like to talk about body shape. I don't think I've got a problem with my weight. Im not fat. Im about Five foot two and im not sure about my weight. Some of my freinds are always saying how lucky I am to be really skinny. First of all I dont think I am that skinny and second I sometimes wish I had one of my freinds bust. She has got huge breasts while even though I am nearly 14 I am completly flat chested. This can make it a bit of a problem when i try to find clothes like tops with straps. You see unless I get them tight they hang down too low because I havent got anything to hold them up with. AAAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHH!!!!!!!!

Another thing is when people think they are fat and go on diets. They think a diet is to eat nothing for breakfast a tiny sandwich for lunch and not much else. I don't think I could keep the stupid thing up because I get so hungry an it doesn't do you any damn good. If you are on a diet like this go and see a doctor or talk to someone.If you are on any diet then stop. If you are overweight and want to lose some weight then don't diet go and see a doctor. Oh and if you exersize a load for whatever reason do something you enjoy. Don't just go to the gym and sweat. Go swimming, dancing, walking, cycling skating or do a fun sport. If you are exersizing and you are hating it you might be doing your body good but you arn't dong the person inside you any good.
I not tottally happy with my body but I do my best to be happy with me.

Thankyou for reading this stuff. Tell me what you think.


By DGEMHM on Sunday, May 10, 1998 - 11:07 am:

hey
i just wanna say that if i wanna go on a diet, if i wanna spend ages making myself look good then i will. who am i doin it for?
i'm doin in for me. if i think i look gud then i feel gud. and i'm NOT just doin it 2 nab a lad so don't give me that shit
ok, i've said my bit
byee


By Jules on Tuesday, May 12, 1998 - 09:39 pm:

Hey all - I didn't get a chance to read all of these messages - but I had to respond to the first few (yes I know that they're old). I'm glad that everyone has such positive self-images (it's GREAT) - and no there's nothing wrong with being overweight, but eating after you feel ill? There must be some other motive besides hunger. I can chow down with the best of them. I'm constantly asking my boyfriend (well - ex now) are you done with that? But eating after your full probably means that you have some other problem and that you're using food to make you feel better. People (well - I) use food as a cure for a variety of things - from depression to boredom. But it's not good. So regardles if you're fat or thin or normal or have 6 heads - examine why you're eating that much.


By Anonymous on Saturday, May 16, 1998 - 09:11 am:

don't feel fat go run around if it will help you, i am 5'4" and 104 lbs but the thing that annoys me is my neighbor weighs more tahn me but is so skinny. iyt took me over a year to realize that ist was because i am a lot of muscle and she isn't that i looked fatter than her. now i am glad and i playtons of sports (lacrosse, basketball, tennis, soccer, swimteam, sking, snowbaording) and i love them all. the one thing that annoys me is my neighbor (the skinny one) always complains about how skinny she is. she even once want to one of my friends your arms and legs are so fat look at mine they are so skinny. when my skinny friend said that my other friend turned red and walked away. I was like why the heck did you do that? i mean it is one thihng to call someone who really is fat fat but to call someone who is 99.9% muscle fat? i am still mad at my skinny neighbor and never wwill forgive her until she grows up!


By Anonymous on Sunday, May 17, 1998 - 05:37 am:

hey this is such a kewl/deadly place just to get things off of ur chest right?.....
Well i'm so sick of all the models that are walking around looking as though they need food SOOOOOO badly and yet they think they are beautiful!!! YAH!! I don't think so!!.....and the saying "big is beautiful" is true but most of the time the ppl who are questioning their weight aren't even big!!! (just because we not all HYPER skinny!!!I) I myself am about the right weight....and if i ever did want to lose weight it would be becsause i wanted to become more fit...NOT FOR APPEARANCE!!!! I'm happy with the way i look!! and so should everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As long as you can have a laugh and just enjoy life and FORGET about material things then WAHEY...I think u'll do fine!!!!
And oh yeah "girl power" is grreat and all....but the Spice Girls well now they are a different story!!!!!..if wearing a boob tube and a skirt that looks as though the dressmaker forgot to make the other half, is GIRL POWER...i want none of it!!
Gril Power to me is being able to stand up and say what's on ur mind, regardless of whether or not u have TESTOSTERONE pupming around in ur body!!!!!
thanx for listening to me MOAN....I don't think my family/friends can take much more of me!! :)


By Nikki on Sunday, May 17, 1998 - 06:57 pm:

It's Nikki again, the model from way back up the list. Well, I went to the convention, and i did well. I got an agency. When i was there, this beautiful, thin girl was telling me about waiting too long for her muffin to come. A muffin for lunch? no wonder she was so thin. You know what? I used to be anerexic, back in 9th grade, and I weighed more than i do now, i was more like borderline though, i never really starved myself. I fell back into those habits though, and now my friends and family are driving me crazy telling me to eat all the time. I'm not anerexic anymore though, i don't think. its so tempting just to not eat anything, anybody else feel like that? I know i'm not fat, I weigh about 105 and i'm 5'8. Actually, i think i gained a few lbs, which just makes me feel bad. If anybody can help me or sympathize with me, i would really appreciate it. My email address is Canary1023@aol.com, feel free to e-mail me or im me. thanks. take care everybody!


By DEMETER on Monday, May 18, 1998 - 10:20 pm:

I don't know NIkki, you just don't seem to get it at all. The way you innocently describe things are proof of what that industry is all about.First the whole competitiveness. I mean shitting on the young " thin" girl for only having a muffin. wake up !!! How can you say that when you expressed that you had anorexia ? Where is your compassion for someone with that experience? It is clear to me that you still struggle with anorexia and the body image garbage that goes with it. I am a "BIG" ? woman now .(according to our standards ???? ) i struggled with anorexia and the whole gamment.... You are young ... In time things will become more realistic to you and you will have a better acceptance of yourself.... And hopefully with these experiences you will help other people ...... I wish you all the best. I hope you take good care of yourself and eat well. and when your body sends you messages to eat ,listen to it ....
I noticed in some of these writings that even though some of you are saying you are fine with your bodies you are still mentioning your weight and body size. You are what you are!!! And if you wanna lose weight for health reasons , then do it but don't talk about it in relation to weight verses body frame. that's got nothing to do with it.


By Katie on Wednesday, May 27, 1998 - 10:16 am:

Well, I just wanna say it's so unfair! I've just split up with my boyfriend who I've been going out with for five months.
How come some people are so pretty and popular, and always get all the boys they want? They just choose a guy, and he'll go out with them.
I wish I could be popualar. I'm not ugly or sad really, I'm just quiet, and people don't seem to like that. But, I can't help it!!
How do I get more confident?


By Nikki on Saturday, May 30, 1998 - 04:51 pm:

I know exactly how you feel. I'm so shy, I think guys are afraid to ask me out because they don't know if I like them or not. I always feel like the one without the boyfriend. I just want to add something else. Why are guys so stupid? I mean, you tell him that your friendship is getting rocky, and he gets all upset. Then he acts like an asshole again and apologize, again. Like how many times am I supposed to forgive him? I just don't get it. Then he wonders why you don't think things are working out...duh! I'm so confused.


By ElizabethD on Monday, June 1, 1998 - 02:11 pm:

Hi. I have stumbled across this forum, and of course it's intriguing. What I notice is the array of age groups. Seems to me teenage girls have different issues, or rather, the same issues on a different scale, than those older women. I just graduated college and two people, one man and one woman, have started up an Eating Disorders Group. So far they have a published journal of several entries, and they meet weekly. My school is the last place ignorant people would think eating disorders prevail, but in fact, the vast majority of sufferers of Anorexia and Bulimia are white, middle class, and have successful parents.
My wacky aid to body self-esteem? I've gone streaking across my campus, and boy does it feel good to be running with 10 other female friends, through the dark night, not giving a care who sees our bodies or what they think! After all, we all have bodies and we all have minds. The only unique part of ourselves is NOT our body, it's our MINDS and personalities. So figure out who you are and you'll enjoy living in your body more!
Cheers to all the grrls out there who survive every day and are trying to help themselves feel better!


By Anonymous on Friday, June 12, 1998 - 02:59 pm:

I just read your messages and I think it's very cool that you are all getting together and giving/receiving moral support. I went through the whole thing about being insanely jealous of models,and actresses, etc. Because they always seemed so perfect. But then I realized that their lives are NOT perfect, they have problems too. So now I try not to think in terms of people to their size, looks, or social status,etc.
Alot(most) of my freinds have self-esteem problems, I'm still trying to work my way through mine. But I notice that instead of trying to help each other they will sit there and get down on the "pretty" girls or "skinny" girls. I know what that feels like because I've always been "skinny". People felt like it was their duty to come up to me and tell me that I must be anorexic and/or bulimic. Which is a laugh considering how much I eat and the fact that I can't stand throwing-up and would never do it purposefully. I never even think about my weight unless someone comments on it. I don't know how much I weigh because I don't weigh myself. But I think that to feel good about yourself you need to stop looking at other people that are supposedley "better off than you" and start thinking about maybe why you think they look better or thinner or whatever. Society has these set beaty standards and that is what we need to look at and try to change
Not ourselves! If people don't like how we look screw them!!! We need to come together and revolt against society itself, weather we are short, tall, models, students, mothers, grandmothers, etc.
A word on the spice girls(and other so-called sluts). I hate calling a girl a slut(or words to those extremes) because I think that if she wants to wear tightclothes, get a boob-job, or do whatever(or whoever) she wants to, that's her choice. She's not hurting me by doing so. Plus the fact that I don't like to be labled as anything, (I'm sure they don't either) so I try not to label people like that.
Oh yeah, I just read this thing online called This is not an invitation to rape me. It is so amazing! It is a very powerful peice and something I think everyone should get a chance to look at!!!














By Sky on Friday, June 12, 1998 - 06:52 pm:

Dear Nikki, my name is Sky and I would love to become a model or an actress. Iam 14 years old and I'll be 15 on 6/12/98 but with the right clothes and make-up (I don't mean a lot) people say I look older. I live in Malta and it isn't an excellent place for such opportunities. My dream is to model or to have the main role in one of those movies of the 17th. century. I just love those big dresses.


By Nikki on Tuesday, June 16, 1998 - 05:54 pm:

Dear Sky,
I wish you all the luck with modeling and acting. I know what its like to live in a town with not a lot of oppurtunities. I have to drive at least an hour and half to find a good job modeling. If you need some help getting started, the best way is to send your pictures to some agencies in the nearest big city. If you get offered a contract, they'll find jobs near you. Its nothing glamorous, mostly promotions, but it pays well and its a start. I've got a book of agencies and I would be happy to send you a list if you want. Btw...i love those 17th century dresses too...but i bet they're uncomfortable. Anyways, good luck.


By Frances on Friday, June 19, 1998 - 12:56 pm:

Well, this has been a most interesting place to stumble upon...It seems to me, most all of us grrls seem to at some point in our lives, our day, our cycle to have some sort of "hang-up"...At thirty-some, I have finally decided to put away some of my insecurities (Most days), and take a leap and do something challenging...I've applied to a University and have been accepted...(there goes that "I'm not smart enough" hang-up)(YES!!) Now, about the body image hang-up...No, I'm not overweight, but I still feel "fat" (Most days)...I tell myself I have earned it and look at the wonderful babies that came from my body...the same babies that my body nourished exclusivly for their first year of their life, that have made my perky little tits a whole lot smaller and a whole lot less perky. I wrestle with the "I love me the way I am" and the "desire for the *perfect* body", but as time wears on, I feel less and less self- consious and more and more ready to pursue the soul satisfying things that make one truly beautiful (although I'm not quite ready to actually toss out my make-up)...Afterall, I love my friends for what they are, certainly not what they look like...And what we are we have aquired through life experiences and goals sought and gained, be them big or little,...So my advice is to do things that truly bring you joy, be healthy (You are what you eat!), be tolerant of others differences (It makes us much more interesting), expeience LIFE....And I shall try to take my own advice. Kudos to all of you who have discovered this at such an early age!
Fran


By MonkeyGod on Tuesday, June 23, 1998 - 11:36 pm:

I could be wrong here, but there is something that I don't think many women know about men. I'll tell you about myself here... I feel fat too. Cause I am. It totally screws with the way I interact with people of the same and opposite sex. A lot of guys are like me and have self-confidence problems. Something that struck me near the beginning of this message board was somebody who was sad that the swim team guy wouldn't look at her cause her skinny friend was there. It's ok to want the swim team guy, don't get me wrong, but I don't see anybody here who is desperate to get the acceptence of some not-so-perfect looking guys. I don't think anybody has ever written to a message board because I wouldn't talk to them. Most of you that don't feel so attractive probably have a guy out there with a big crush on you. I know because it's been me many times over. Just look around you, because we have minds too, not just deficient six packs.


By Olewishka on Wednesday, June 24, 1998 - 01:25 am:

Yay monkey god!
On a good day I am of average height and weight and I'm told I'm pretty. On bad days in the mirror, I see pores, oily skin, grotty teeth, black stringy hair, pimples the size of Vesuveous, rancid nails, a lumpy, bumpy body, left tit too big, prominant love handles, orange-peel butt, grotesque body hair and I can smell BO.
But no matter what kind of day it is, my fiance tells me I look beautiful and he loves me. I can be in bed, throwing up large amounts of bile, red eyed and sweaty, and he'll still hug me, tell me I'm his baby girl and I STILL look gorgeous. And I believe him. Because if it was a lie, he'd been gone a long time ago!
PS Today's a good day!


By Bliss on Sunday, June 28, 1998 - 09:16 am:

yeah! i think that if you are on your own, its alot easier to be happy with yourself. im not saying that anyone should sit at home all day by themselves. but i know everyone about13-21 has tthought this recently. ok, you're at a disco. until you get there, you r v.happy with the way you look. then u get there, and the first thing u see is a 5'5 girl, with blue/green eyes, a short half top exposing her tanned flat stomach, and a short skirt, showing legs that go on 4 eva. you think OH MY GOD! but next time, ask her if she is happy with herself, and if she says yes, say why? is it becausre u r v.pretty, or u have just learned to accept yourself for wwho you are. then think about what she says.


By Shampoo on Sunday, June 28, 1998 - 04:04 pm:

MonkeyGod, you shed a new light on this conversation totally. Good for you! You're right, while all of us are worrying about our bodies and stuff, we're oggling the "swim team guys". I sometimes forget that men can go through the same stuff that we do (and unfortunately for them, they don't use make up to make it better... i wonder why...?).

Olewishka, I'm happy for you that you found such a great guy! And congratulations on your engagement.

Bliss: I know exactly what you're talking about. Here I am, feeling all pretty and wonderful and full of confidence, and in walks this gorgeous sun-goddess and down goes the confidence level... I can't help it.

-shampoo


By AngelMint on Sunday, June 28, 1998 - 06:48 pm:

There are always going to be those girls out there who are prettier than thou and ahve their makeup just right and their hair just right and look all cutesy and petite and skinny..i was the one who was always jealous of those little girls because they guys think they're just so darn cute..when here i am 5'8" and 140lbs..wishing i were taller and wearing my platforms with pride..but i've also noticed that us girls are more critical of ourselves sometimes than guys can be of us..we're always quick to point out something wrong with a girl..or other times though how cute another is..and then sit and wish we were like that..when guys aren't so critical..sure there are the girls that you sit and think..if they weren't so pretty there is no way the guys would even pay much attention to her because she's not so pleasant..but half the time we don't expect perfection from guys in the looks department..don't we want the quirky little intelligent boys who are just too adorable but not the conventional handsomeness..think ethan embry..*drool*
so why wouldn't guys want the same from us? as long as we're happy with ourselves then that's all that really matters..and if someone should happen to notice..then all the better..but in the meantime if you're not happy with yourselves and aren't willing to do anything about it..then either accept it or get over it.."if you compare yourselves with others you will become vain and bitter" Desiderata-Max Erhmann


By Olewishka on Monday, June 29, 1998 - 10:56 pm:

Shampoo...
Thanx. But not only do I have a great guy, but a great frame of mind. I may not be a Cindy, Linda, Christy or Naomi, but I'm HAPPY! And I'm sure they have their off days too.
I'll invite you to the wedding then?


By Anonymous on Thursday, July 2, 1998 - 07:39 am:

oksome arent going to agree with this but i really dont care. Just because the waif look is "in" doesnt mean it will be forever. When Marilyn Monroe and all the curvy sex kittens were running around how do you think all the tall gangly tomboys felt? You should the pics of my grandmother she was 140 pounds, but still the hottest girl on her block. There are plenty of plus size models out there, why cant we just all get along. I mean if someone is naive enough to follow every diet and believe that they should be 100 pounds and 5'8 its their problem and their going to have to find a way to deal with it. I know that sounds really insensitive and i dont mean it the way it sounds, but i hated myself for such a long time, ive had 2 suicide attempts, and ive been in a rehab. All because i felt i was fat, but i also have friends that are models and they are gorgeous human beings, not slaves of some corporate market. They eat normally, their not herion addicts, and one is the most talented artist i know. She HATES being put into a stereo-type of the dumb druggie poster girl. You know what, boys dont even find her attractive, she hasnt had a boy friend in a year! Its money and its better than dealing drugs or prositution, so give models a break. THEIR HUMAN BEINGS WITH A JOB THEY ACTUALLY ENJOY. whats wrong with that?


By Snowpaws on Sunday, July 19, 1998 - 09:26 pm:

Why is everyone so obssessed with weight...it's so stupid. Everyone is always worrying about what everyone else thinks...


By Anonymous on Monday, July 20, 1998 - 01:17 pm:

Sometimes you just "assume" that all us tall, skinny girls starve ourselves... I know I don't, I was just lucky enough to be born this way.

There is now a big increase in the number of plus size models... (look at sophie dahl for example). See, they must be considered gorgeous in eyes of others...

Love yourself for who you are!!!


By Wominist on Monday, July 20, 1998 - 05:14 pm:

Being "obsessed" with weight is largely a Western culture thing i think. A lot of nations don't put as much pressure on young women to look attractive. Remember ladies, it's about your dollar! Advertisers don't care if you want to kill yourself as long as you buy the Revlon,the diets, the clothes the models wear. I'm skinny and every time I go to the bathroom I think "I wonder if everyone thinks I'm going to throw up?" (and I've never had an eating disorder)See how ridiculous things have gotten?! It's all a joke because, as i said, I'm skinny and small and when I look at women who are taller and "bigger" I think: "Wow, I admire the presence they have." And i say admire because it's so much cooler to admire than to envy. We should put the weight obsessions behind us! There boring, overdone and they make the advertisers and big companies laugh at us.


By Rhiannon on Tuesday, July 21, 1998 - 03:32 pm:

People call me anorexic all the time, but they that that can't be true because I'm the most energetic person I know and I HATE throwing up, Like you, anonymous, I was lucky enough to be born that way and the people who tease me are jealous because none of the others reasonably skinny people tease. As a matter of fact, I have only told a few people this because I do not want rumours going around, I have entered for the Bliss Modeling competition. I know it is a very slim chance that I will even get in to any of the finals but wish me luck anyway.

Any people who think that they are fat, at least you will stay warmer than us in the winter, I get absolutely FREEZING in the winter.


By Anonymous from July 20 on Wednesday, July 22, 1998 - 06:16 pm:

There is 2 weeks left to enter in the Bliss modelling competition.... Im 5ft 8 and a half and a size 8 (size 6 in america I think). I'm over 5ft 7 so I qualify for this competiton so I might enter...
I might enter my best friend though... She is gorgeous with cheekbones to die for!


By Rhiannon on Thursday, July 23, 1998 - 04:53 pm:

ANONIMOUS,

YOU GO GRRL! and good luck if you do. You know what I say; 'If don't make it, hey, if you do make it, yay!'


By Above Anon on Thursday, July 23, 1998 - 06:56 pm:

Yeah - but you know what I heard? That if u send your photo's to a modelling agency you have a 1 in 394 chance of them signing you in their books! :-() That sux!


By Rhiannon on Saturday, July 25, 1998 - 03:04 pm:

Oh well it's worth a try innit!


By Katie on Monday, July 27, 1998 - 04:24 pm:

I have always been a tomboy and was never interested in clothes, make-up etc, until my freshman year in college when I began exercising and gaining muscle. I've been made fun of all my life for being too skinny, but now people notice me because of it. Recently, I had a date with a very handsome corporate man. (I don't know where I'm going with this) He cooked me dinner..it was supposed to be romantic, but the entire time I talked, he acted like he was bored. Later we were on his couch talking (this is the third date) and he groped me all over! What gave him the notion that this was appropriate? Does he think he has a "right" to me? Sick bastard. I have realized more than ever, that some men could care less about what's in my head. In high school I hated makeup, raged against everything and dyed my hair every color of the rainbow. But I WAS HAPPY. I was told then that I was too weird, too outspoken, etc.., but the friends I had appreciated me for who I am on the inside. Now I've conformed and I've lost my passion (geez..I'm tearing up). Many of my relationships (especially with men) feel superficial. Not because I don't speak up or act myself, but because those men don't care if I'm a mouse or a real woman. They're interested in the face, the butt...whatever>. It's so easy to get sucked into. I'm not saying that you should make yourself intentionally different-looking (this is conforming, too), but trying to be "perfect" only leads you to madness and makes you stray from your best self. Am I making any sense? I know I have much more to say. .......
Any similar experiences out there?


By Ultraviolet on Thursday, July 30, 1998 - 04:44 am:

To Nikki, Anonymous and all of the other models or would-be models- it's great to have a different perspective on the issue. To you and the other non-models keep it up grrls!

I just want to say that people are the way they look because of genetics. Sure, models excercise a lot and watch what they eat like it were Days of our Lives, some even have eating disorders and do drugs like speed to stay skinny, but it all goes back to the body you were born with.

To the Anonymous (so many to keep track of :])who said that one should do something fun when excercising-- you are so right. I hate going to the gym and running endlessly on a stupid treadmill counting down the seconds until my time is up. I play water polo 3 times a week it it's lots of fun. I'm not much of a sporty girl-- I'm not very coordinated or strong nor do I have much endurance-- but playing a sport makes me feel productive.


By Shampoo on Thursday, July 30, 1998 - 09:32 pm:

Good luck to the girls who entered that modeling competition! I think I would make a good model cuz I'm outgoing and not shy about anything, but to be a model you pretty much have to be good looking, so I think that leaves me out ^_^.

Katie, I dunno if what you said about trying to be different so that you're not conforming is right. I mean, it's not conforming just being yourself! And if the way you like to dress and do your hair is like how the majority do it, then so what? Just be yourself. If how your life is now isn't what you would like it to be, then try to change it. If you were happy with rainbow hair, then go and dye it or something. It's not too late to change your mind.


By Nikki on Sunday, August 16, 1998 - 06:15 pm:

Hey everybody
Well, i'm still working at the modeling thing, but its not as important to me as school or friends and family. I'm not anerexic either, like i sorta was before. mostly when i got depressed i didn't feel like eating anything, and i used to get depressed a lot, i still do. well, i hope you all keep good self esteem cause its important. it makes you shine, even if you're not gorgeous or likewise. well that's all i have to say, take care everybody.


By Olewishka on Wednesday, August 19, 1998 - 09:40 pm:

Well, Guys I'm back with a BIG surprise!

My fiance's birthday is coming up, so for a *SPECIAL* treat, I went to a photographer and posed for some arty b&w nude pictures. It cost a packet, but I know my boy will enjoy them.
And I realised at that shoot how beautiful the female body is. The photographer specialises in nudes and asked me to look at some of his previous shots to find poses I wanted. It was amazing! There was a gorgeous shot of a girl with blonde hair, a 10A bust, tiny waist and thin legs, she was only short (5'1) but she looked great! And opposite was an even better shot. I remember her name was Justine, she was VERY fair with freckles, bobbed dark hair, an average bust, curvy waist and hips, she looked so sexy!
I was amazed by the beauty in all forms.
My photos are fantastic. The photos accentuate my bust (I'm fairly endowed) and butt but look very sexy. I feel sexy!

Well, quickly...I told my friend Hayley about the photos. She's going to get some taken for her husband...and she's six months pregnant. She's going to look fantastic!


By Mia on Saturday, August 22, 1998 - 08:17 am:

I've just read all the messages on this board,and I hate to say it but I even feel worse about myself.I say to myself that I should get with all you grrls and not care about what I look like-but to be perfectly honest even if I do feel great about myself when I step outside the front door I feel like its not about what I think, its about what the tall skinny girl WITH the great personality thinks.I know I have a good personality and I usually get along with everyone and sometimes cause people talk to me for who I am,that makes me feel soo sexy and beautiful.But then in walks the girl with the great personality minus the love handles and spotty face,and then I just feel worthless ,how could I ever have a chance standing next to her .Why would anyone chose me with her on offer?(sorry that sounds like a pig farm on buying day)


By Wominist on Tuesday, August 25, 1998 - 10:06 pm:

Mia,

No two personalities are the same. She might have a great personality but she's not you! Your unique personality makes you attractive. Sometimes we catch people in moments that stick in our heads. Like when the beautiful girl with the great personality is having her moment, that lodges in our brain. We get this eternal picture of her surrounded by admirers and we think "how can I compete with that" But that was just one moment and everyone has their moments. I have two friends: One is very attractive and very nice. The other is not very attractive and very nice. But I don't think "why do I even bother with the second one!" Because they are nice in different ways and they are two totally different, unique people who affect my life in different ways and I love them both. I hope this helps.


By Gilmoure on Sunday, August 30, 1998 - 02:30 am:

Hey Mia,

I'm a guy who is very shy and almost disapperes in a crowd. If you have an out going personality, glory in it. being an average looking guy who doesn't say much (except here), isn't rich or famous makes it damn hard to meet anyone. OH well, just a bit of self pity on a Saturday night. Really like what MonkeyGod wrote earlier in this forum. He hit it right on. Some of us go through life and are never noticed.

G


By MeG on Thursday, October 1, 1998 - 05:01 pm:

You know what Mia,none of the outside is really going to matter once u are out of high school and on your own.Yeah i know in high school all it seems people care about is the way u look but u aren't going to be in high school forever.It will be your intelligence and personality and pride that will get u through the rest of your life.None of that other stuff of how u look won't matter.But u know what would u really want someone to like u just for the way u look?If u are who u are,then u know people like u for your personality and not your looks.And when you are a good person on the inside it reflects on the outside,it makes u a more beautiful person on the inside.But anybody who has a bad attitude will just make them look worse on the outside.I know that it may seem that all the girls with the looks
are getting the guys,and are popular,ect,and also the guys that are goodlooking, alot of them are probbaly going to be the less successful ones.My mom was telling me how when she goes back to high school all the really goodlooking and popular people back in high school are now the ones with crappy jobs and the least successful and don't look as attractive as they did.But the less popular/not as good looking people are the people that were most successful,that had the great marriages,great jobs,and great life.Cause they relized that looks can only can u get so far but a great personality,intelligence,and pride can get u all the way.
*MeG*


By Mia on Friday, October 2, 1998 - 10:50 am:

Thank you!!! :)


By MeG on Thursday, October 8, 1998 - 11:59 am:

Mia,do u feel better about yourself now???
*MeG*


By Anonymous on Tuesday, November 3, 1998 - 07:16 pm:

Insicurity knocks from time to time. Invite it in. Give it some coffee. Then take that suger spoon a poke it in the eye.


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